I still do not understand, if creation was do perfect and the world newly created and all was godly, just where exactly did evil come from?
Since it was newly created and there was no other place mentioned again so seems like there was an error in some form, and then from the research I've done, a serpent was also referred to as an elder, and in more research there's a discussion of other forms of life, which other religions such as in India.
The serpent races are recorded thru history as are the ocean going mermen and merwomen which a race was discovered by Jaque Cousteau son a few years back on digital camera actually coming up and peering in the the underwater sub as well as three remains found in California on the beach.
I believe whatever exists living is created by God. If there are aliens it's just something else created by God.
When it comes to creation there's alot of gaps in time, books added, books removed, politics.
Example, Romans crucified Christ, the Sadducees and Pharisees were the ruling religious political parties of the times, I'd suggest they wanted Christ out of the way more then the Romans.
Evil is disobeying and rebelling against God. God loved everyone enough to give everyone freewill to choose right from wrong. Think of how people would complain if they were robots without choices. Well, they aren't and not they complain when they choose evil. But most people usually only complain about the evil done to them, not the evil they do to others. They still want the freedom to commit evil which negatively impacts others. Interesting how this works.
Angels in heaven had freewill, which is why satan was banished. Adam and Eve had everything perfect but also chose evil. Evil exists because people keep choosing it willingly, and God loved them enough to allow them that choice.
Brother Adam, If man has FREEWILL, why does man ALWAYS chose EVIL, why wouldn't at least a FEW men choose to never sin. If they have FREEWILL.
But, that would make this scripture a LIE:
Philippians 2:13 For it is God that WORKETH IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO ....
Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin (No), can a leopard change his spots? (No) then may you also do good, (No) that are accustomed TO DO evil.
Romans 8:20 For the creature itself was made SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly ....
It sounds like your argument is based on an assumption.
"If man has FREEWILL, why does man ALWAYS chose EVIL, why wouldn't at least a FEW men choose to never sin. If they have FREEWILL."
To challenge this assumption, I may ask why you assume a 'few' wouldn't sin and where would this expectation come from? I don't have this expectation that flawed humans can be perfect, so I wonder why you assume freewill would make such a feat possible?
Is it possible that you're conflating freedom of choice with supernatural powers? Perhaps thinking freewill is more than just a choice, but like a free wish from God?
I may 'choose' to be the tallest man in the world, but that doesn't mean I will be. Our choices only occur within our own reality. I can wish to be in Hawaii right now, but that's different than me choosing and making subsequent plans to actually go there. Our freewill doesn't mean we can transcend reality and have magical powers, so I don't think freewill helps someone be perfect. It's closer to the opposite. If we were robots we'd have no choice and would likely operate morally perfect as designed. God hates sin and doesn't make anyone sin, but if you don't have any freewill you would have to explain that contradiction. But since we do have freewill, it's not a contradiction. With freewill we're tempted every day nearly 24/7 and face constant moral choices throughout our lives and it seems unrealistic to assume that an imperfect human can somehow choose to be perfect.
Did I understand your question correctly and does anything I wrote resonate?
I don't understand your definition of the word then. To help me understand, did you choose to type a response to me or did something force you to do that beyond your will? It sounds like you don't believe you have some kind of freedom to do what you want, but I can't relate to that, because I have complete freedom and that can be used for good or evil. I'm typing a response to you willingly because I choose to. Maybe you're not? If you feel like you're being controlled by another force against your will then there's probably nothing left to discuss on the topic, as I just can't relate and is hard to believe it.
Perhaps you would find some of the answers you seek in the books of Enoch, such as the nature of evil, or the humanoid beings which have animalesque features to them that were portrayed in ancient religions and whose discovery nowadays is hidden from the public. I recommend you read it.
We were taught NOT to read the Apocrypha. I knew about the missing books. I was never taught as to why the books were taken out the KJV. Now that I am an adult I took the time to find answers as to why. Also, to find the names of the books. I was told seven. I found fourteen along with the Dead Sea Scrolls info. The same one's the took out the books also were going to add five books that are in the KJV. They changed their minds I guess. In my studies I found a lot of ugly things that took place concerning The Bible. In the books of The Apocrypha I found answers to the books that were Canonized. Who gave them the authority to take anything out of BIBLE. At the end of Revelation it clearly states NOT TO ADD OR TAKE AWAY FROM THIS BOOK....
To my knowledge the book of Enoch was never included in the KJV since it was only found in the 50s with the death sea scrolls. There are ample mentions of him and his writing throughout the bible though, especially the new testament.
Genesis 5:18-24. And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. This and his for the times below average lifespan of three hundred sixty and five years, everyone living about 700-1000 years in those days, mean to me that his life wasn't ended because of death, but because, as it says, God took him after Enoch walking with him, which is perfectly described in the book of Enoch.
Hebrews 11:4-5. 5 makes mention of Enoch, whom by faith was "translated". I interpret this word as him being taken by God, since he was not found due to God having translated him. For before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God, so it says, and this testimony is likely to be his writing. 4 makes mention of Abel speaking even after death, which to my knowledge isn't really explained anywhere else in the bible but is perfectly made sense of in Enoch, where he looks into the depths of the Sheol only to find Abel claiming vengeance for the murdering of him (if someone knows of any passage of the bible which also mentions this I'd be very happy to know).
Lastly, Jude 1:14-15. Must I say any more?
I don't know much about other Apocrypha. I know, superficially, for example, that the deuterocanonical books were instilled by the catholic church and are quite contradictory with the rest of the bible, for the reasons this very same website mentions in its page about the apocrypha. I haven't read them though, so I couldn't know. I recommend the book of Enoch because sufficient mention is made of him to prove its veracity, and that it satisfies the curiosity of us creationists while also explaining, as I said, the nature of malevolence, the giants, of whom David fought one, the Lords cosmology and creation, etc.
How Satan Tries to Twist Geneology; one of his weapons - In Reply on Genesis 3 - 2 years ago
TWO Enochs in the Bible
Enoch (Hebrew: meaning "initiated") is a name in the Hebrew Bible used by two separate figures who lived during the generation of Adam.
The first Enoch was the SON OF CAIN.
He is the father of Irad. After Cain arrived in the Land of Nod, to which he was evicted by the Lord as his punishment for murdering his brother Abel. His wife became pregnant and bore Cain's first child, whom he named Enoch.
The SECOND Enoch was a descendant of SETH, the third son of Adam, and great-grandfather of NOAH ( Genesis 5:22-29). SETH is the bloodline of Jesus Christ ancestors and Must Not be Confused with Cains ancestor.
First Book of Enoch was at first accepted in the Christian Church but later excluded from the biblical canon. Its survival is due to the fascination of marginal and heretical Christian groups, such as the Manichaeans, with its syncretic blending of Iranian, Greek, Chaldean, and Egyptian elements.
Justin, Athenagoras, Irenaeus, Clemens Alexandrinus, Lactantius, and others borrowed an opinion out of this Book of Enoch, that the angels had connection with the daughters of men, of whom they had offspring (Nephilim: 'the giants of the past'). Tertullian, in several places, speaks of this book with esteem; and would persuade us, that it was preserved by Noah during the deluge. The Book of Enoch, however, was rejected by Origen, Jerome and Augustin as spurious.
[newworldencyclopedia DOT ORG]
Mishael comment: there is Much confusion as to the First Enoch, son of CAIN (who was cursed by God), in Genesis.
Satan seeks to confuse people by causing those who are following to use THE BLOODLINE NAMES of Jesus's Geneology twice.
It helps to find charts made by reputable ministers on Google and compare carefully to the KJV record. Often charts will be disputed by those who dispute the person and Holy Lord Jesus. It all originated in Genesis.
JESUS EQUIPPED US__LETS USE IT - In Reply on Genesis 3 - 2 years ago
Satan was a created archangel. When he was ejected from Heaven (with 1/3 angels; turned demons)
They have no bodies. They have to borrow bodies to do their evil. Evil humans give their bodies to do evil. Demons can borrow animal,reptile, etc.
Satan didn't have Dominion or Authority to do anything to born again Christians; but the Christians must be taught what they have in Christ. Ephesians 6
Look at Hollywood! Way more movies on occult, sci-fi, and humans hurting humans. Very very few scriptural Bible films.
Humans were given Dominion in Genesis by God.
Only Bible readers would know that. Jesus defeated Satan by being crucified and then Resurrected. Christians have the same AUTHORITY to defeat Satan's strategies against us. It's done in prayer on our knees.
Most people just want to come home and watch tv or play online games.
Bad things happen to good people/Christians because we don't want to do the hard stuff that produces salvations, healings, deliverance from Satan's attacks. We don't need to be blaming God for our inability to follow the example of Jesus.
What would happen if we walked out on the back porch and yelled out loud: in Jesus Name, by His power and Authority, I take Dominion over every demonic strategy to hurt me and my family and loved ones. I bind your evil plans and cast you OUT OF THIS HOUSE
OUT OF MY FAMILY
OUT OF MY WORK PLACE
OUT OF MY CITY
OUT OF MY GOVERNMENT
GO NOW INTO OUTER DARKNESS TO WANDER. DO NOT RETURN
IN THE NAME OF JESUS. AMEN
I ask the Lord, to release warring angels to enforce and protect this prayer; minister to and guard those this prayer covers. Cover me and favor my family, Lord Jesus,
I give you thanksgiving, my praise to you, worship and honor. Impart to me discernment so I may stand in the watchtower and be vigilant against Satan's attacks. I rebuke the Spirit of Slumber! Holy Spirit teach me how I should pray for all my concerns. I receive it, in the Name of Jesus. AMEN! HALLELUJAH
Brother Sonny, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
Most people are taught by the traditions of man, very few study themselves and let the Spirit reveal the truth to them.
Romans 8:20 For the CREATURE (CREATION) was made SUBJECT TO VANITY (evil), not WILLINGLY, but by REASON of him who hath SUBJECTED the same (creation) in HOPE. (Becoming ONE with their CREATOR).
Ponder on the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil.
That knowledge exist TOGETHER, you can't have the KNOWLEDGE of good without also having the KNOWLEDGE of evil.
After partaking of this KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, God said, behold they (creation) have become like one of us to KNOW good and evil.
This KNOWLEDGE is necessary to become LIKE GOD.
John 17:21 That they (creation) ALL may BE ONE; as thou Father, art ONE IN ME, and I IN THEE, that thou also may be ONE IN US: that the world MAY BELIEVE that thou has SENT ME.
Colossians 1:27 ... this mystery....CHRIST IN YOU.....
Revelation 4:5 And out of the throne (you are the throne of CHRIST)( Revelation 20:4) proceeded lighting, and thunder and voices: BURNING ( Isaiah 4:4) before the throne (you are the throne of CHRIST)( Revelation 20:4), which (lighting, thunder, voices) ARE the SEVEN Spirits of God (now in you).
Isaiah 11:2 And the (first is the) SPIRIT of the LORD (Father) shall rest upon him (Christ (in you)), the (second) spirit of WISDOM, and (the third spirit of) UNDERSTANDING, the (forth) spirit of COUNSEL and (the fifth spirit of) MIGHT, the (sixth) spirit of KNOWLEDGE and (the seventh spirit) of the FEAR of the Lord.
When we no longer have to SUFFER IN THE FLESH we will BE ONE WITH THE FATHER AND SON.
Since it was newly created and there was no other place mentioned again so seems like there was an error in some form, and then from the research I've done, a serpent was also referred to as an elder, and in more research there's a discussion of other forms of life, which other religions such as in India.
The serpent races are recorded thru history as are the ocean going mermen and merwomen which a race was discovered by Jaque Cousteau son a few years back on digital camera actually coming up and peering in the the underwater sub as well as three remains found in California on the beach.
I believe whatever exists living is created by God. If there are aliens it's just something else created by God.
When it comes to creation there's alot of gaps in time, books added, books removed, politics.
Example, Romans crucified Christ, the Sadducees and Pharisees were the ruling religious political parties of the times, I'd suggest they wanted Christ out of the way more then the Romans.
Angels in heaven had freewill, which is why satan was banished. Adam and Eve had everything perfect but also chose evil. Evil exists because people keep choosing it willingly, and God loved them enough to allow them that choice.
But, that would make this scripture a LIE:
Philippians 2:13 For it is God that WORKETH IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO ....
Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin (No), can a leopard change his spots? (No) then may you also do good, (No) that are accustomed TO DO evil.
Romans 8:20 For the creature itself was made SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly ....
It sounds like your argument is based on an assumption.
"If man has FREEWILL, why does man ALWAYS chose EVIL, why wouldn't at least a FEW men choose to never sin. If they have FREEWILL."
To challenge this assumption, I may ask why you assume a 'few' wouldn't sin and where would this expectation come from? I don't have this expectation that flawed humans can be perfect, so I wonder why you assume freewill would make such a feat possible?
Is it possible that you're conflating freedom of choice with supernatural powers? Perhaps thinking freewill is more than just a choice, but like a free wish from God?
I may 'choose' to be the tallest man in the world, but that doesn't mean I will be. Our choices only occur within our own reality. I can wish to be in Hawaii right now, but that's different than me choosing and making subsequent plans to actually go there. Our freewill doesn't mean we can transcend reality and have magical powers, so I don't think freewill helps someone be perfect. It's closer to the opposite. If we were robots we'd have no choice and would likely operate morally perfect as designed. God hates sin and doesn't make anyone sin, but if you don't have any freewill you would have to explain that contradiction. But since we do have freewill, it's not a contradiction. With freewill we're tempted every day nearly 24/7 and face constant moral choices throughout our lives and it seems unrealistic to assume that an imperfect human can somehow choose to be perfect.
Did I understand your question correctly and does anything I wrote resonate?
Man makes CHOICES thousands or time a day; but those CHOICES have a CAUSE:
Philippians 2:13 For it is God that worketh in you TO WILL and TO DO ....
They is never an effect without there first being a CAUSE.
God is sovereign and the CAUSE of everything.
Romans 2:4 Man repents be CAUSE of the goodness of God
Philippians 1:29 You BELIEVE be CAUSE Christ CAUSES you to believe.
Galatians 1:20 You have faith be CAUSE Christ GIVES you HIS faith.
John 6:44 No one comes to Christ with a CAUSE, the Father draws that person to Christ.
God CAUSES and DOES everything, man is the benefactor of CAUSES of GOD.
Colossians 1:17 ...and by him all thing consist.... even you CHOICES.
John 15:5 ...you can of yourself DO NOTHING...
Can we grieve the Holyspirit? If so what causes this, Isn't it Mans free will by obeying the opposition?
Just a thought.
God bless.
I don't understand your definition of the word then. To help me understand, did you choose to type a response to me or did something force you to do that beyond your will? It sounds like you don't believe you have some kind of freedom to do what you want, but I can't relate to that, because I have complete freedom and that can be used for good or evil. I'm typing a response to you willingly because I choose to. Maybe you're not? If you feel like you're being controlled by another force against your will then there's probably nothing left to discuss on the topic, as I just can't relate and is hard to believe it.
Joshua 24:15
God bless...
Genesis 5:18-24. And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. This and his for the times below average lifespan of three hundred sixty and five years, everyone living about 700-1000 years in those days, mean to me that his life wasn't ended because of death, but because, as it says, God took him after Enoch walking with him, which is perfectly described in the book of Enoch.
Hebrews 11:4-5. 5 makes mention of Enoch, whom by faith was "translated". I interpret this word as him being taken by God, since he was not found due to God having translated him. For before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God, so it says, and this testimony is likely to be his writing. 4 makes mention of Abel speaking even after death, which to my knowledge isn't really explained anywhere else in the bible but is perfectly made sense of in Enoch, where he looks into the depths of the Sheol only to find Abel claiming vengeance for the murdering of him (if someone knows of any passage of the bible which also mentions this I'd be very happy to know).
Lastly, Jude 1:14-15. Must I say any more?
I don't know much about other Apocrypha. I know, superficially, for example, that the deuterocanonical books were instilled by the catholic church and are quite contradictory with the rest of the bible, for the reasons this very same website mentions in its page about the apocrypha. I haven't read them though, so I couldn't know. I recommend the book of Enoch because sufficient mention is made of him to prove its veracity, and that it satisfies the curiosity of us creationists while also explaining, as I said, the nature of malevolence, the giants, of whom David fought one, the Lords cosmology and creation, etc.
Enoch (Hebrew: meaning "initiated") is a name in the Hebrew Bible used by two separate figures who lived during the generation of Adam.
The first Enoch was the SON OF CAIN.
He is the father of Irad. After Cain arrived in the Land of Nod, to which he was evicted by the Lord as his punishment for murdering his brother Abel. His wife became pregnant and bore Cain's first child, whom he named Enoch.
The SECOND Enoch was a descendant of SETH, the third son of Adam, and great-grandfather of NOAH ( Genesis 5:22-29). SETH is the bloodline of Jesus Christ ancestors and Must Not be Confused with Cains ancestor.
First Book of Enoch was at first accepted in the Christian Church but later excluded from the biblical canon. Its survival is due to the fascination of marginal and heretical Christian groups, such as the Manichaeans, with its syncretic blending of Iranian, Greek, Chaldean, and Egyptian elements.
Justin, Athenagoras, Irenaeus, Clemens Alexandrinus, Lactantius, and others borrowed an opinion out of this Book of Enoch, that the angels had connection with the daughters of men, of whom they had offspring (Nephilim: 'the giants of the past'). Tertullian, in several places, speaks of this book with esteem; and would persuade us, that it was preserved by Noah during the deluge. The Book of Enoch, however, was rejected by Origen, Jerome and Augustin as spurious.
[newworldencyclopedia DOT ORG]
Mishael comment: there is Much confusion as to the First Enoch, son of CAIN (who was cursed by God), in Genesis.
Satan seeks to confuse people by causing those who are following to use THE BLOODLINE NAMES of Jesus's Geneology twice.
It helps to find charts made by reputable ministers on Google and compare carefully to the KJV record. Often charts will be disputed by those who dispute the person and Holy Lord Jesus. It all originated in Genesis.
Stay on task and don't incorporate heresy.
They have no bodies. They have to borrow bodies to do their evil. Evil humans give their bodies to do evil. Demons can borrow animal,reptile, etc.
Satan didn't have Dominion or Authority to do anything to born again Christians; but the Christians must be taught what they have in Christ. Ephesians 6
Look at Hollywood! Way more movies on occult, sci-fi, and humans hurting humans. Very very few scriptural Bible films.
Humans were given Dominion in Genesis by God.
Only Bible readers would know that. Jesus defeated Satan by being crucified and then Resurrected. Christians have the same AUTHORITY to defeat Satan's strategies against us. It's done in prayer on our knees.
Most people just want to come home and watch tv or play online games.
Bad things happen to good people/Christians because we don't want to do the hard stuff that produces salvations, healings, deliverance from Satan's attacks. We don't need to be blaming God for our inability to follow the example of Jesus.
What would happen if we walked out on the back porch and yelled out loud: in Jesus Name, by His power and Authority, I take Dominion over every demonic strategy to hurt me and my family and loved ones. I bind your evil plans and cast you OUT OF THIS HOUSE
OUT OF MY FAMILY
OUT OF MY WORK PLACE
OUT OF MY CITY
OUT OF MY GOVERNMENT
GO NOW INTO OUTER DARKNESS TO WANDER. DO NOT RETURN
IN THE NAME OF JESUS. AMEN
I ask the Lord, to release warring angels to enforce and protect this prayer; minister to and guard those this prayer covers. Cover me and favor my family, Lord Jesus,
I give you thanksgiving, my praise to you, worship and honor. Impart to me discernment so I may stand in the watchtower and be vigilant against Satan's attacks. I rebuke the Spirit of Slumber! Holy Spirit teach me how I should pray for all my concerns. I receive it, in the Name of Jesus. AMEN! HALLELUJAH
Most people are taught by the traditions of man, very few study themselves and let the Spirit reveal the truth to them.
Romans 8:20 For the CREATURE (CREATION) was made SUBJECT TO VANITY (evil), not WILLINGLY, but by REASON of him who hath SUBJECTED the same (creation) in HOPE. (Becoming ONE with their CREATOR).
Ponder on the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil.
That knowledge exist TOGETHER, you can't have the KNOWLEDGE of good without also having the KNOWLEDGE of evil.
After partaking of this KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, God said, behold they (creation) have become like one of us to KNOW good and evil.
This KNOWLEDGE is necessary to become LIKE GOD.
John 17:21 That they (creation) ALL may BE ONE; as thou Father, art ONE IN ME, and I IN THEE, that thou also may be ONE IN US: that the world MAY BELIEVE that thou has SENT ME.
Colossians 1:27 ... this mystery....CHRIST IN YOU.....
Revelation 4:5 And out of the throne (you are the throne of CHRIST)( Revelation 20:4) proceeded lighting, and thunder and voices: BURNING ( Isaiah 4:4) before the throne (you are the throne of CHRIST)( Revelation 20:4), which (lighting, thunder, voices) ARE the SEVEN Spirits of God (now in you).
Isaiah 11:2 And the (first is the) SPIRIT of the LORD (Father) shall rest upon him (Christ (in you)), the (second) spirit of WISDOM, and (the third spirit of) UNDERSTANDING, the (forth) spirit of COUNSEL and (the fifth spirit of) MIGHT, the (sixth) spirit of KNOWLEDGE and (the seventh spirit) of the FEAR of the Lord.
When we no longer have to SUFFER IN THE FLESH we will BE ONE WITH THE FATHER AND SON.
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