Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Carol Bartow on Revelation 2 - 2 years ago
    Who or what were the Nicolaitans?
  • Jesse - In Reply on Revelation 2 - 2 years ago
    Carol,

    The word Nicolaitan is actually made up of two Greek words. The first word is pronounced "Nee-kay" which is the Greek word that means to overcome. It is actually spelled like the sneaker with the swoosh mark on it. I can't spell it out because this site will reject it as advertisement. The second Greek word is LAOS which means the people.

    So the word Nicolaitan represented the democratic control of the people in the church, where the leaders ruled and lorded it over the flock. And the Lord says He hates that. Jesus Christ is still the head over the church, not the church leaders, or so called Nicolaitans. God speaks to His people in the church and in the congregations, and those in ministry positions need to be sensitive and humbled to that fact.

    In the church, we are all equal. No one should lord and rule over us because Christ is our Lord. If God wanted me to be a leader, it would not be because I am more special than any other believer. He might call me to that particular function, but that doesn't mean that once I start functioning in that area, that I know the Lord better than anyone else.

    Many churches over the years have fallen because the leaders took human control over the church, and these leaders themselves were not governed by God's Spirit. So church leaders are not there to rule and lord over God's people. The human democracy over God's people, God says He hates! That's who the Nicolaitans are!

    If I may ask, I have a friend Carla Bartow (Patterson) who has a sister named Carol Bartow. Would that be you?
  • Carol Bartow - In Reply on Revelation 2 - 2 years ago
    Jesse, thank you so much for answering my question. It is something I have wondered for a long time and could not find anyone I knew that could answer it. It appears several times in Revelation and I can now read it with more understanding.

    Also, do you know why the tribe of Dan is not included in the 144,000? It names all the other tribes including the 2 tribes of Joseph, but not Dan. In reading the Old Testament, I see many reasons why Ephraim could have been omitted, but have not found why Dan. Ephraim is not specifically named but is referred to as 'of the tribe of Joseph'.

    As to the Carla Bartow to whom you refer, I don't know of any. My Dad was the youngest of 13 children and was 20 some years younger than the oldest. Several had large families, most of which were in the western Nebraska area. We moved to Missouri when I was 2 and because in the 40's and 50's money was short, we did not visit them. There were also members of my grandfather's family in Pennsylvania and Oklahoma, but we never met them.

    Again, thank you very much for your help.
  • Sheila Davis - In Reply on Revelation 2 - 2 years ago
    Genesis 49:16-17 Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that bite is the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backwards.

    Those were the words of Jacob to Dan concerning The Last Days _ Genesis 49:1and Jacob called unto his sons, and said, gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.



    Isn't it possible and most likely that it is through the tribe of Dan that the Antichrist of the Beast shall arise from?

    What Jacob said to Dan is almost the same exact words God said to the serpent in Eden after the fall of Adam - plus directly calling him a serpent.

    The Tribe of Dan was lost in idolatry and was rebellious, if my understanding is correct, refuse the land God allotted him, wiped out a people and took their land.

    If my belief is correct, all the original 12 Tribes of Israel will be present in the last day - one in the fallen state.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Revelation 2 - 2 years ago
    Hi Sheila.

    Good observation. Dan and Ephraim is omitted from witnessing in Revelation, However Dan goes into the Millennium kingdom, And so does Ephraim.

    I believe they lost their Witness but not Brotherhood for lack of better terms.

    Appearance in the Millennium-

    Ezekiel 47:22. And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.

    Ezekiel 47:23. And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD.

    Ezekiel 48:1-2. Now these are the names of the tribes. From the north end to the coast of the way of Hethlon, as one goeth to Hamath, Hazar-enan, the border of Damascus northward, to the coast of Hamath; for these are his sides east and west; a portion for DAN.

    And by the border of DAN, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Asher.

    Ezekiel 48:5. And by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim.

    God bless.
  • TRIBES OF ISRAEL - In Reply on Revelation 2 - 2 years ago
    John the Apostle omits the tribe of Dan when mentioning the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel, in regard to the 144,000 sealed Israelites. Instead of Dan, the tribe of Joseph appears twice (being also represented by Manasseh).

    Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, 10 of the original 12 Hebrew tribes, which, under the leadership of Joshua, took possession of Canaan, the Promised Land, after the death of Moses. They were named Asher, Dan, Ephraim, Gad, Issachar, Manasseh, Naphtali, Reuben, Simeon, and Zebulun-all sons or grandsons of Jacob.

    The Book of Joshua records that the tribes of Reuben, Gad and half of Manasseh were allocated land by Moses on the eastern side of the Jordan River and the Dead Sea ( Joshua 13:15-23). ... By 900 BC, some of the territory and Reuben and Gad had been captured by the Moabite kingdom.

    The Levites do not get an inheritance of land; rather, they are scattered among the other tribes through the allocation of cities among the other tribes.

    You're going to have to google reputable websites; even Jewish ones.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Revelation 2 - 2 years ago
    Hi Carol.

    Ephraim and Dan may have been omitted in Revelation 7 is because they was the first to go into Idolatry and they Lost their Witness.

    Deuteronomy 29:18. Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or (TRIBE,) whose heart turneth away this day from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood;

    Judges 18:30. And the children of Dan set up the graven image: and Jonathan, the son of Gershom, the son of Manasseh, he and his sons were priests to the tribe of Dan until the day of the captivity of the land.

    However just speculation.

    God bless.
  • Jesse - In Reply on Revelation 2 - 2 years ago
    Carol Bartow,

    You are welcome. As for why Dan is not listed as one of the 12 tribes, I don't know the answer to that. I'm not even sure the Bible tells us why. I did read something about it somewhere but I can't remember where or what it even said. Hopefully someone here can shed some light on the reason for the omission. That is a great question. You have me wondering myself!



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