Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • George - 2 years ago
    Who made faith available and when did it start?
  • Jesse - In Reply - 2 years ago
    George,

    Technically, faith has always been in existence. The bible tells us in Galatians 5:22 that faith is a fruit of God's Spirit. In other words, a human being cannot produce spiritual faith. There are two types of faith, human faith which every human being has, and then there's faith that the bible speaks of which can only produced by God's Spirit. in our own human effort, we cannot produce spiritual faith. I say that faith has always been in existence because I believe in the deity of the Holy Spirit.

    The word faith in the bible comes from the word PEITHO, and it literally means persuasion. It is the presence and activity of God's Spirit in a believer that persuades them to do the things of the Lord. That's what faith is, persuasion! You can ask 10 people to describe faith and what it means, and you will probably get 10 different answers. But if we understand that faith means persuasion, and we say we have faith, what we are saying is that we are under the persuasion (Faith) of God's Spirit. When He persuades us to do something, that's faith!

    In Romans Chapter 4, we see Abraham and Sarah were past the age of bearing children, but God made a promise to Abraham and Abraham was persuaded that God would keep His promise as we see in Romans 4:21.

    That's what faith is. It's believing God, that if He says it in His word, that He's going to use us as His people, He is perfectly capable and has the ability to do it. We believe God because it is His Spirit in us that persuades us to believe. Faith is not me doing it. That's works. If it's in my own human effort, that's religion and it's works.

    If we keep in mind that faith literally means persuasion, once we take that approach, all the frustration of trying get our walk with the Lord right will fade away. The more we trust the Lord to do it (Faith/Persuasion), the better off we will be. When we fully trust in the Lord, God's Spirit moves in a great way!
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Thanks and Amen Brother Jesse!!

    With that lesson I believe we can better understand James 2:14-26.

    James 2:20 (KJV) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    James is saying you are persuaded to work by the gift of faith given to you.

    Amen!
  • Jesse - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Brother Spencer,

    Yes, knowing that faith is produced by God's Spirit, it definitely helps in understanding that faith without works is dead. I'm not sure if this will make sense, but for myself, I don't look at faith as being a gift that is given to me. I look at it as I've been given the gift of God's Spirit. God's Spirit is the only gift we are promised when we receive Christ as our Savior. Everything else we call "gifts" are just manifestations of His Spirit.

    It is His Spirit that has the capacity to produce spiritual faith in me. I can't produce that. I'm not trying to complicate things. That is just the way I see it in my own life. I have to keep in mind that if I am being persuaded by His Spirit to do something, it is Him doing it, not me. In other words, I cannot take any credit for anything I do for Christ if it is His Spirit leading me to do it!



    But yes, faith without works is dead. A person who has the Spirit of Christ in them, there will always be activity. It is impossible for a person to have the creator of the entire universe living inside of them, and there be no activity. So if a person says they have faith, and there's no activity, it is a dead faith!
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Brother Jesse

    I'm not sure if empty vessels is as fitting as Paul put it here in

    2 Timothy 2:20-21. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

    If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

    God bless.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Brother Spencer,

    I suppose those two verses can be tied in. Verse 21 says a man therefore purge, and that's the word cleanse. If a man cleanse himself from these things, that is, these iniquities, he shall be a vessel for honor,



    Three things: Having been sanctified, and that's the word set apart. When we receive Christ, He places His Spirit in us and sets us apart for His purposes. And meet, or more literally useful, for the master. And thirdly: prepared unto every good work. And the word good is Agathos which has to do with spiritual good. This type of good is produced by God's Spirit. Man cannot produce Agathos.



    The one who comes for cleansing and confessing his/her sins, will be a vessel of honor, set apart by God for His use, and prepared for every good work that God has for them.

    I kind of look at it as coming to Christ not only as an empty vessel, but a broken one needing to be mended (KATARTIDZO). It is Christ who cleanses us, sets us apart for His purposes, and continues to mend us each and every day. We just need to confess to Him that we are broken and submit to His mending process!
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Amen!! Brother Jesse!

    God bless
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Amen Brother Jesse.

    It makes perfect sense. We're gifted the Spirit, Started out as empty vessels.

    Amen.
  • George - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Jesse That is a bit confusing to me because it says in Galatians 3:22-25 it appears to say that spiritual faith came with Jesus christ.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 2 years ago
    George,

    I did not intend to make it confusing. I do see where it could be a little confusing when looking at those verses in Chapter 3, especially in verse 23 where it says "before faith came." That's speaking of Christ. You are correct there. There are places in the New Testament that say faith "in" Christ, but in the Greek text it's says faith "of" Christ. It's His faith.

    I know that seems confusing because we are told in chapter 5 that faith is a fruit of God's Spirit. So does faith come from God's Spirit, or from Christ? To better understand it, whether I hear someone say the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, or the Holy Spirit, it's all the same Spirit to me. It's the same as saying that Christ lives in me, the Holy Spirit lives in me, or God lives in me. When we receive God into our lives, we receive Him in His fullness. And it is His Spirit in us that persuades us to function according to His will. That is faith!

    Hopefully I haven't made this more confusing?



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