Bible Discussion Thread

  • Ronald L Whittemore
    Prophecy and what we have been taught, just my thoughts.

    Studying prophecy, or any subject, scripture, and the Holy Spirit is the interpreter, we are not. Putting trust in man's interpretations without studying with a clear mind, with prayer, and led by the Holy Spirit of truth could be disastrous. If the Holy Spirit does not show us the answer, we may need to grow in other areas of our walk first. Praise God for what we have been shown.

    Many teachings on end times reflect Babel, (confusion, a confused mixture of sounds, unintelligible voices, or languages, bewilderment, a confused and deceived assembly), making merchandise of people. Remember "take heed that no man deceive you".

    If we have dedicated our belief in the teachings out there before we go to the Bible for the facts, the only things we will see will line up with the conclusion we have already come to, we deceive ourselves. Our ears to the Holy Spirit are closed. Maybe not willingly, we are blinded from the truth by the pride of our knowledge. Imaginations of the heart is a foothold of evil, we inherited from the first Adam and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    A simple question that may show how things we have been taught since Sunday school as a kid may have created a scotoma (blind spot) in our minds. Many probably know this answer but may it open some eyes and ears to other things we may be wrong about and not know we are wrong.

    How many of each type of animal went into the Ark? If you first said two each, ( Genesis 7:2-3)

    Clean beast by 7, male and female =14, unclean beast by 2, male and female=4, fouls by 7, male and female=14. Man by 4, male and female =8. All two-by-two male and female not two of each. I know this may be meaningless, but what other things much more important have we accepted, that we have been taught as truth, that is not?

    If we have been deceived, are we responsible?

    May we walk in the Holy Spirit of truth

  • Dianne - in Reply
    Ronald Thanks for the insight, 2 Timothy 2:15
  • Richard Estrada - in Reply
    Ronald L Whittemore,

    Don't be afraid to voice your opinion about what has not yet happened. Most of us have read it hundreds of times without knowing the answers are staring back at us. We have clews about who the beast & Babylon are, we claim these are the end times, but we can't identify these 2 end time powers? Nothing wrong with trying to understand the mystery. I will throw my hat in on what I think about daily.

    The beast = Russia, China, India, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Sudan, Libya, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt.

    Mystery Babylon = US; Babylon merchants: Canada, UK, Europe, Israel, Japan, Australia

    ( Isaiah 47) ( Revelation 18) is US's fate as Mystery Babylon

    ( 2 Thessalonians 2:4) the beast sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    The US has fallen therefore Israel was easily invaded and taken captives. ( Luke 21:20-24)
  • Ronald L Whittemore - in Reply
    Richard Estrada

    Not saying your picks are wrong some of them may be part of it. There is nothing wrong with searching for the truth. But more importantly, us being ready when Jesus comes. There are a lot of teachings out there and some are misleading. Doctrines are made by using prophecies that have been fulfilled, confusing great tribulation with the wrath of God, and more.

    Have we exalted the last of the Christians more worthy to be saved from tribulation than 2000 years of Christians who were beheaded, burned alive, and more horrible deaths than we can even imagine, all of them dying in faith for Jesus' sake, they endured to the end?

    Why should we be better than them? Matthew 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

    The beast comes out of the bottomless pit, a king, the angel of the bottomless pit whose name means destruction. Angels are locked in chains of darkness until the judgment of the great day? These angels defiled the entire creation before the flood and God locked them up. Also, the angels cast out in Revelation 12, we have as Jesus said as the days of Noah, a time of trouble we can not imagine.

    If Babylon is a mystery will we know until it is revealed and people are called out of her?

    The beast will place himself above not just God our Father, but all gods of all religions, all that is worshiped, with the magnitude of power he will show, and with the false prophet, with sorcery, and power to give life unto the image and cause those to worship the image or be killed.

    Since Jesus placed His blood on the holy place in heaven, there is no material temple on earth. Jesus in us, our body is the temple, the dwelling place of God. If a third temple is built, and if God has no use of it, how can there be an abomination of desolation, are people looking for something that cannot be, or has been already?

    Just a little, keep studying, let the Holy Spirit be your guide.

  • Richard Estrada - in Reply
    Ronald L Whittemore,

    What did I say about the future that is wrong.

    What are you saying about the future.
  • Ronald L Whittemore - in Reply
    Hey Richard Estrada

    I did not mean to imply what you listed was wrong, but I guess a lot of it did not go along with what you posted, I do apologize. The countries you listed may come to be, but I do not know or try to figure out what countries will be involved.

    As far as what I can say about the future, I feel it will be different than what many teach. I believe, as far as the countries that will be united with the beast we will not know until they are set up. I believe the beast is not a country but an angelic being from the bottomless pit along with the false prophet, with the power of Satan who will rule over those countries and the world.

    When Satan is cast down all changes, what that will look like who knows but it will not be pretty.

    Babel and Babylon are the same but translated differently, Babel was the start of sun worship, the host of heaven worship, and sanctified prostitution and human sacrifices. Babel started what God was constantly dealing with Israel, the gods of the countries around them.

    So, my feelings are that Babylon at the end times must have similar religious attributes because of what is said in ( Revelation 17:6), ( Revelation 18:24) and ( Revelation 19:2) whether the blood and deaths of the prophets, saints, and martyrs of Jesus are from the beginning of Babel or during the 3.5 years of tribulation, that is if this Babylon carries out the punishment for not taking the mark, because many of us if we are still here, will face death.

    This is probably not what you are asking for, sorry if not. If I may suggest something, not saying I know anything but it may help if you want to study it. ( Luke 21:20-24) you listed in your first post you said if the U.S. was taken out it would be easy for Israel to be invaded, true but, when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on Nisan 10 He cried and said, ( Luke 19:41-44). You may decide Jesus, in both cases was talking of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD, not end times.

    God bless,

  • Richard Estrada - in Reply
    Ronald L Whittemore,

    There is a literal Beast & Babylon established in our time, they are two kings, and you should know who they are before one spoils the other. You will know them by their fruit. You haven't thought Revelation out in modern day terms, symbolism throws you off. It will be much easier to place the abomination of desolation in America ( Isaiah 47) while simultaneously, Israel suffers ( Revelation 6:12) and invaded from all sides by the beast army ( Ezekiel 38:1-17). Science can create earthquakes, like HAARP. How else is anti-christ going to do what Napoleon and Hitler couldn't do?

    satan cast down from heaven? Didn't Jesus say satan was the god of this world? Jesus returns to take control of all kingdoms from satan, right? So, how is satan thrown to earth when it is already his domain? Isn't that allegory? Doesn't the Letter lets ( Joel 2) satan lets Jesus (day of the Lord) lets the beast take Babylon with violence?

    Let's be honest, If I was posting as Jesus, and tore down every ill conceived doctrine you held dear, would you take heed, or would you curse me for insulting your brand of Christianity?
  • Misplaced Loyalty - in Reply
    The Bible only speaks of resurrected bodies. I've seen nothing about our will being changed.

    The Christian's born again free will, should Jesus said: to do the will of my Father.

    Satans Boast: Observe how many times Lucifer aka Satan, says I WILL five times! He has a huge rebellion problem, desiring to be higher than God. Number 1, he is a created being. He creates chaos and destruction, but he cannot create man or anything else. Evil has damaged his brain.

    He will be in hell, covered in worms; later to the Lake of Fire; never to get out again.

    Isaiah 14:12

    How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!


    For thou hast said in thine heart, I WILL ascend into heaven, I WILL exalt my throne above the stars of God: I WILL sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


    I WILL ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL be like the most High.


    Yet thou (Satan) shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.


    They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man (Satan) that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms?

    This war in Heaven is told in Revelation 12. Start at verse 7-9. He was in charge of worship, and began to covet it for himself. He rebelled and deceived 1/3 of angels. Michael picks him up and hurls Lucifer to earth, with his demons.

    Here's some testimony. For 3 years after I was saved, I was attacked viciously and often by invisible beings. Eyes Held down, couldn't speak or move. My spirit was screaming the blood of Jesus tho. One time my bed was raised off the floor 3' with me in it; again restrained. I plead the Blood. They almost broke my neck but an angel threw it in the yard outside and I heard loud body blows.

    They just want to destroy us. Stop thinking Satan has been treated unfairly. Rather, see him covered in worms. I do.
  • OSEAS - in Reply

    Greetings in Christ JESUS

    Yes, as you say, "he(Satan)is a created being. He creates chaos and destruction, but he cannot create man".

    In fact, he is a USURPER; he - the Devil - crafitly replaced the nature of man formed by GOD by his evil and devilsh nature by usurpation.

    For six thousand years Satan has been sustaining, and maintaining, his diabolical generations in this/his satanic world. But NOW his world will be DESTROYD by entire- Revelation 11:v.18-and the Kingdom of GOD will be established-Rev.11:v.15 combined with Luke 20:v.35-36.

    Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth, JESUS said (Mat.5:v.5), by whom also GOD made the worlds. Hebrews 1:v.2
  • Richard Estrada - in Reply

    Wouldn't it be justice if Jesus pardoned satan, pardoned the devil He created as a stumbling block for us?

    When satan is tossed in the lake of fire, so goes a part of man. Our earthly father who art burning in hell wants a little sympathy. The devil, like Judas, did his job well, and should be rewarded to the double.
  • Confronting Lies With Truth - in Reply
    *Pray this prayer as often as you need to: Gracious Father, in Jesus' mighty name I pray, thanking you for the Light of your Word. I admit my total dependency upon you. Shine your light on me. If there is any form of deception in my life, I ask your Spirit to send conviction, revelation, discernment and freedom. I choose to revoke my alliance with any form of darkness and to step into proper alignment with Your ways. Guard me against any form of deception. Help me to pierce through the seductive lies of the enemy and grant me wisdom to make use of your truth. I ask that You do exceedingly abundantly above all that I could ever ask for and that You will turn everything in my life to the good.

    With a heart full of worship, I magnify your great name. I rejoice in Your wonderful, complete salvation. Amen and Amen!

    The deceitful spirits who lie in wait in the dark shadows aim to deflect God's people from the right path. Their insinuations are deceptive, manipulative, seductive, alluring. Demons allure people from a position of stability into a place of instability in an attempt to capture them in their web of lies: "poor pitiful Satan".

    We must learn to expose demonic strategies. They operate in different ways in different circumstances, perpetrating error in the most advantageous way possible:

    "Its" name is DECEPTION

    1. Error by exaggeration-truth wrapped in a lie.

    2. Error by exalting a special revelation above the Word of God.

    3. Astonishment that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ, and are turning to a "different gospel."

    Good News!! As a blood bought child of The King, they have no authority to deceive or distract any longer than it takes you to say: I bind your works and command you to go into outer darkness. Do not return, in Jesus Name! Alleluia Amen!

    Keep coming back here. Mishael
  • Jesse - in Reply

    Sympathy for the devil? Sympathy from who? And by the way, Satan will be rewarded. The bible tells us what Satan's reward will be after the thousand year reign of Christ. He will be cast into the lake of fire. That's his reward, and it comes from a just and righteous God!
  • Adam - in Reply
    Hello Richard,

    One of the signs of the leftist ideology and religion is to have compassion all evildoers and to assume they didn't mean it, that it's not their fault, that a broken system made them do it or otherwise they're not responsible. It usually pairs with an equal amount of inhumanity, injustice, and cold-heartedness toward the victims of the evildoers. It also tries to flip the script and say evil isn't that bad, not really evil, and good isn't that good, that sometimes it's bad.

    If someone believes in satan the way the Bible describes him then they will believe he's the father of lies, is a murderer, like a lion ready to devour us. He is a pure evil. What is evil? Evil is the opposite of good and opposite of God's holiness. Disobeying God is evil.


    How clever would it be for the father of lies to lie to Christians to get them to have sympathy for the devil (just like the song)? And how clever would it be for the liar to get people to believe evil isn't really evil, and that good isn't really good.

    In your comment you made an assumption that satan is just doing a 'job'- But it wasn't a 'job'- he rebelled and chose evil himself. I think the magnitude of this is significantly greater than a human like us one day slipping up and accidentally sinning. This was a direct defiance of God like blasphemy of the holy spirit unforgiveable level severity, in my opinion. Judas didn't do a job- he absolutely betrayed Jesus and blew it- which I think was blasphemy of the holy spirit and he killed himself.

    To claim that evil isn't that bad and that everyone should get into heaven is like denying God's goodness. It's like claiming God isn't good and that's dangerous ground. If evil exists and it does, then certainly the opposite exists. God is pure and love. Satan is hate and full of dark evil poison. Jesus died and suffered for you. Satan lied to you and is trying to get you into hell to be in torment. One is telling truth one is spewing lies. God bless.
  • Dianne - in Reply
    Adam Rolling Stones tune tells you who inspiring them
  • Richard Estrada - in Reply
    Come off yourselves, you hypocrites share in satan's work coming from your hands. Look in the mirror. You can't take responsibility for your actions, and you're the first to blame the devil. You are the ones that sin, and nobody else. Typical humans, bs your way out of the mess you made. The thing you hate is in you, an indefinite sin maker.
  • Jesse - in Reply

    How could you know the heart of a true believer? Even though you are attacking my brothers and sisters in Christ and it is hard to remain silent, I will speak for myself. When I commit a sin, I don't blame Satan, even though he is the source of sin. I have myself to blame. Why? Because in my flesh, I am weak, and I give in. Every decision we make in life is based on who or what we love the most. We're faced with temptation and we have to make a decision when Satan tempts us. What are we going to do? Do we really love the Lord? Or, do we love the sin more? That's our choice. Again we make the choice based on who or what we love the most. Temptation to sin always comes from the devil. He is the source of all sin, and he deserves no credit, nor sympathy. Maybe I have missed something, but I have not seen anyone here blame the devil for their actions.

    No offence, but you do not sound much like a person who is being led by God's Spirit. Again, I speak for myself. But you are accusing other believers here of being hypocrites when you have no way of knowing their hearts. Do we sin? Yes, but so do you! You say that "we are the ones that sin, and nobody else." Do you realize that your statement is excluding yourself? Do you not sin? You say "Typical humans, bs your way out of the mess you made." Well, if you are human, you're part of the mess you speak of.

    I totally disagree with your last statement where you say "The thing you hate is in you, an indefinite sin maker." The sin maker you speak of is none other than Satan himself. I think every believer hates sin, or at least they should. But a true believer understands the sin principle and the source, and that source is NOT in a true believer. It is Christ that is in us, and it is Christ that we are to follow, even during times of temptation!

    Even though I have myself to blame if I commit a single act of sin, I know I have an advocate with the Father. And I will never show any sympathy towards the devil!
  • Dianne - in Reply
    Hey Richard I'll be the first to admit not perfect far from it but I am forgiven also we all occasionally are hypocritical that's part of our nature. Have a nice day
  • Dianne - in Reply
    Richard What is your definition of sin?

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