Bible Discussion Thread Page 2

 
  • Norman - in Reply
    OSEAS,

    I'm spining, hoping for a soft landing. My posts are challenging, but you are re-writing my settled sanity.

    I'm going to start asking you one question per day. You kindly answer in 6 sentences or less. Stay on topic.

    Here we go:

    #1 What do you know about the time, place, duration of ( Malachi 4:5-6)?

    5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

    6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
  • OSEAS - in Reply
    NORMAN - and ALL -

    Firstly you must know that according the Word of GOD - the Word is GOD - the great and dreadful Day of the LORD is the seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium, the millennium of Christ, the millennium of Judgment, the Judgment Seat of Christ, and the Day of Vengeance.

    GOD said by the prophet Malachi: Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet BEFORE the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD, and he fulfilled His Word in the turn of the FOURTH to the FIFTH Day. By the way, I will also ask you one thing; and answer me: Do you believe in JESUS? What was revealed to Malachi chap.4, my Lord JESUS left clear saying unto His disciples: Matt.11:v.10-12, as follow:

    10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must FIRST come?

    11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall FIRST COME, and restore all things.

    12 But I say unto you, That Elias IS COME ALREADY, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. ...

    Do you believe in JESUS, dear NORMAN?
  • Norman Walker - in Reply
    OSEAS, I am a little mixed up when I see you ask Norman a question or you give a responce to Norman? My name is Norman but have I said something wrong? Sorry I just do not understand you saying Norman do you believe in Jesus Christ? Is it me are another Norman? Thanks
  • OSEAS - in Reply
    NORMAN WALKER

    I have replied to one reader called NORMAN simplesly, no last name, so must be one your namesake. Sorry.
  • Jamie - in Reply
    Earl Bowman,

    It is us who are provided a colorful script, that says it is us who must be destroyed, and rebuilt.

    I look forward to death, it's very underrated.
  • Norman - in Reply
    OSEAS,

    Get ready for what? Repeating scripture without added insight is fruitless, I can't logically follow your vision. The 3 evil spirits are what lures the feuding armies together. You're telling me things I do not subscribe to, or it's backed up with scripture that I assign another meaning to.

    Follow this pattern: Esau, Red, Edom, Russia, king of the north, beast. Obadiah 1:10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever. It is Esau (Russia) coming forth to conquer Jacob (whole house of Israel). Throughout history, Russia has been held back from the spotlight, made poor with a small people. Ezekiel 38:4 And I WILL TURN THEE BACK, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I WILL BRING THEE FORTH, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

    Anything new can take some time to sink in, that is unless you are in doubt, and a teacher explains it in a way that instantly satisfies your heart. That's the best way to acquire wisdom, naturally.
  • OSEAS - in Reply
    NORMAN

    Well, the battle is against THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS - A SATANIC TRINITY

    And the angel of the Lord said- Revelation 17:v.15: The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. Scripture is clear:This quoted verse reveals us the AQUATIC ENVIRONMENT of these spirits of demons like frogs which guide the peoples or rule the nations of all tongues in whole earth, through all kind of devilish systems, as religious systems (catholicism, and Judaism, and spiritism, budhism, islamism, among many others), and political systems, and military systems, and social and cultural systems, among others systems. In fact, Satan goes to and fro and from walking up and down among them.

    By the way, the new NAME of SATAN in the current time of Apocalypse is Dragon.

    Rev.12:v.9-10 - 9 And the great DRAGON was cast out, that OLD SERPENT,called the DEVIL,and SATAN,which DECEIVETH THE WHOLE WORLD:he was (will be) cast out into the earth, and his messengers(2Cor.11:v.13-15) were(will be)cast out with him.

    10 NOW (yes,NOW,ONLY NOW) is come salvation,and strength,and the KINGDOM of our GOD,and the Power of His Christ...

    Revelation 11:v.15-18

    The kingdoms of this world(WORLD OF DEVIL)ARE BECOME the KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD,AND OF HIS CHRIST;and he shall REIGN for ever and ever.

    16 And the four and twenty elders,which sat before GOD on their seats,fell upon their faces,and worshipped GOD,

    17 Saying,We give thee thanks,O Lord God Almighty,which art,and wast,and art to come;because thou hast taken to thee thy great power,and hast reigned.

    18 AND THE NATIONS WERE(WILL BE)ANGRY,and GOD's wrath is come,and the time of the dead,that they should be Judged, and that GOD should give reward unto HIS servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear HIS name, small and great;and should DESTROY them which destroy the earth.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply
    Brother S Spencer, I agree with you on the soul and Spirit. The soul is what wars against the Spirit.

    The soul that sinneth it shall DIE.

    Spirit CANNOT DIE.
  • S Spencer - in Reply
    Earl looks like I misprinted again!

    The 1st sentence should have read

    I don't Know all there is to spirit and soul in the present state or future state.
  • S Spencer - in Reply
    Yes Brother Earl,

    I don't know a there is to spirit and soul, present or future, I think the soul being dead is "Positionally" Just like we're declared righteousness in Christ. "Positionally"

    You see you and I don't agree on where the Spiritually dead goes. I believe there's is a Hell, And it is a place of torment and that Spiritually dead soul will be resurrected and be aware even as the dead is aware of his presence after this body returns to dust. And I believe he will be given a Chance to present his Case in the 2nd resurrection. And there's going to be some of us here who knowingly and not Knowingly fail short of Grace.

    " Those who believe salvation is based off the works of the flesh is the knowingly "

    " The not knowingly is those who adds to grace " This group misunderstand the difference between SAVED TO WORK and WORK TO BE SAVED. They believe to receive that grace you have to work for it.

    I believe those who are spiritually dead have the spirit of the world and have a natural hate for the truth.

    Likewise those who are alive in Christ have a natural hatred for the lies.

    You tell the difference by their fruit. "Most important Love "Agape" for the Brethren.

    BY THE WAY YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THAT! YOU CAN'T TURN IT OFF OR ON. ( These are hard to identify! Speak the truth and it will manifest some.)

    This topic "Where the soul goes" Is very important to some because "Their Theology" which is shaped by "their views" hinges on this.

    A person can can hold to a view which is fused in a slight works based relationship by even adding to sanctification or Justification "the finish" work on the cross" and he has added leaven. And it shows up in their ministry.

    And by the way I believe there is a literal Armageddon. Why and how can you Spiritualize a literal place here on Earth?

    And how do you get drawn to it?

    Revelation 16:16. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply
    Brother S Spencer, I have another question? Is everything in Revelation 16 literal, or just the battle of Armageddon? Do you believe Joel 3 is describing this same battle or a different battle.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply
    Brother S Spencer, do you believe the battle of Gog and Magog in Revelation 20:8 is a literal battle.
  • Jamie - in Reply
    Dear OSEAS,

    "The battle of Armageddon is to happen now BEFORE CHRIST's COMING,against three unclean spirits like frogs: Rev. 16:v.13-16"

    Oh boy, I'm having a hard time believing that the 3 evil spirits engage NOW in the last battle, BEFORE Christ returns. It is my understanding that Christ defeats the sixth trumpet beast army ( Revelation 6:13-21) at His coming.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply
    Jamie, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the sixth seal....

    Jesus is telling (not literally) the saints in the Old testament (those described in Hebrews 11) to wait a while longer and they would be glorified at his resurrection.

    Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

    This fulfils the prophecy in:

    Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible DAY OF THE LORD come.

    The DAY OF THE LORD came when Christ was crucified and resurrected.

    Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour was there darkness over all the land until the ninth hour.

    Matthew 27:51 ...And the earth did quake ....

    John 19:34 ....And forthwith came there out blood...

    Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened, and many bodies of the (old Testament) saints which slept AROSE,

    Matthew 27:53 And came out of the grave after HIS RESURRECTION, and went into the holy city (new Jerusalem), and appeared to many.

    This is the one hundred and forty four thousand that are sealed in Revelation 7.

    Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

    This fulfils the prophecy in:

    Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away (Christ replaced it with his death) and the abomination that maketh DESOLATE (Jesus had to become your life) set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days (42 months, Christ ministry on earth).

    Daniel 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

    There was 45 days of silence between Christ Resurrection and Pentecost then the Holy Spirit was poured out on man (Christ second coming).
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply
    Jamie, may CHRIST IN US GRACE us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    Understanding the second coming is necessary to understand God's WORD.

    Man teaches that the second coming is SOMEWHERE in the future.

    Jesus came the FIRST TIME in the flesh; His 42 month ministry in the flesh on earth. (same 42 months in Revelation).

    Jesus has ALREADY come the SECOND TIME in the form of the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit or Comforter.

    This second coming has been happening since pentecost (like a thief in the night) and will culminate in His physical body appearance at the second resurrection. Everyone is LOOKING for something physical and literal when it's all being done in realm we can't see and touch. Our mind that is attuned to only the physical and literal, has to be destroyed and replaced by a mind that can understand the spiritual (the mind of Christ). Most everything is HIDDEN in the scriptures; most often the literal represents something else. We know some of these, tree of life, book of life, living water, lamb of God, river of life, etc. With the SPIRIT'S help we have to find the ones we don't know; to understand. For instance; heaven is a literal physical place; but to understand the scriptures, heaven represents MAN (where God dwells). There was war in heaven (in man). Satan was cast out of heaven (out of man). If you like mystery novels, God's Word is the best ever written.

    This is what makes Revelation so difficult to understand. Look at everything as if it represents something else. But it CANNOT contradict other TRUTHS, they have to harmonise. The answer are found in other places in the scriptures.

    Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was ONCE (in the flesh) offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that LOOK FOR HIM shall he appear the SECOND TIME (in Spirit) without sin unto salvation.
  • Richard Estrada - in Reply
    Jesse,

    I have found the teachings of OSEAS to be oddly inaccurate for my taste. When I told him who the lead tribes of the house of Israel were ( Genesis 48:12-22 emphasis on vs 19), he freaked out, calling me "evil". He is also talking about an active beast before the falling away, and another beast afterwards. Each beast has 3.5 years in antichrist's kingdom. That would be fine, except anti-christ is revealed only when he destroys Babylon, not before. There's more that rubs me wrong, but it's fair game in the open market, and par for this course.
  • OSEAS - in Reply
    RICHARD ESTRADA

    Israel is the earth, the dry land, with its great city spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, yeah, Israel, the earth, was and is ALSO dominated by unclean spirits like frogs, which infested the nation of idolatries, and wichcraft, and idolaters and spiritist peoples or esoteric and kabbalistic peoples that follow the kabbalistic and spiritist Judaism, and Israel is waiting their messiah who must manifest himself soon (he was born decades ago), and he will be one of the heads of the monstrous and satanic Antichrist's Empire together the Beast of sea- Daniel 2:v.40 to 43:

    v.40 - And the fourth kingdom(that is, the Roman Empire-Gentile peoples) shall be strong as iron, forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it (the Roman Empire) break in pieces and bruise.

    v.41 - And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes(the feet -two foot- and the 10 toes of statue), part of potters' clay(God is the Potter of clay. The clay is Israel, says the Word of God- Isaiah 64:v.8), and part of iron(Roman Empire), the kingdom shall be divided (evidently); but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron(Roman Empire), forasmuch as thou sawest the iron(Roman Empire) mixed with miry clay(clay is Israel- Isaiah 64:v.8).

    v.42 - And as the toes (10 toes) of the feet(two foot) were part of iron(Roman Empire), and part of clay(Israel or Jewish), so the kingdom shall be partly strong(Roman Empire), and partly broken(weaker).

    v.43 - And whereas thou sawest iron(Roman Empire) mixed with miry clay(Israel), they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men (many nations, Gentile peoples- Revelation 11:v.2): but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron(Roman Empire-Gentile peoples) is not mixed with clay(Jewish people - Israel).

    Be careful, or get ready

    WHO IS PREPARED FOR THE BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON AGAINST THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS WHICH DOMINATE THE WHOLE WORLD AND GUIDE AND RULE ALL THE NATIONS?
  • S Spencer - in Reply
    Brother Earl.



    Sorry brother Earl I've given my take on Gog and Magog recently. but I've learned that when engaged in a friendly debate over the text with one who spiritualize the text it's like a dog chasing his tail, There's nothing to take root of. as long as we agree on the means of salvation we will have to agree to disagree on this issue. But I will say if the conclusion of your theology leads you to believing that all will be saved even nonbelievers that view is very disturbing, You have to spiritualize every book in the Bible!! And nearly every chapter!! How do we reason using the scripture?

    It's Late here on the south east coast.

    I will Chat with you guys tomorrow.

    Goodnight and God bless.
  • Norman - in Reply
    OSEAS,

    There is no such thing as the battle of Armageddon. Armageddon is a gathering place prior to Christs return, where Gog sees Christ standing on Mount Olives, and comes down to get slaughtered in Israel, in the Kidron Valley. The name of the battle is couched in Revelation 16:14. Its "The battle of that great day of God Almighty". Why does everyone make their own story up, and not follow the Word of God?
  • OSEAS - in Reply
    NORMAN

    In fact the event of Ar - mag - eddon is not according your imagination expressed in your post (BY THE WAY, eddon means red; the Red Dragon- Revelation 12, so take care with his MOUTH), but THIS EVENT is according Revelation 16:v.13 to 16, it is against a satanic TRINITY, three unclean spirits like FROGS (they live spiritually in waters (Gentile peoples) and in dry land or clay -Israel with it great City thast spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt) and by their MOUTHS they go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to THIS battle of this Great Day of God Almighty.

    JESUS warned through the verse 15:

    15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. Do you believe in JESUS?

    Be careful, or get ready
  • OSEAS - in Reply
    Correction

    in the recent post was written: "the dead in christ will rise first even not in this present time- because michael stands up ..."

    the correct is "the dead in christ will rise first even in this present time - because michael stands up ..."
  • Mark Sislack - in Reply
    Earl Bowman,

    Revelation 16:16 is NOT a battle ground; it is the place where the feuding beast army GATHERS for the last battle.

    Joel 3:2 I will also GATHER all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat (blood), and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

    These two verses support one another, with Joel descriptively delving in deeper past the gathering. This last battle is called "The battle of that great day of God Almighty", AND MOST CERTAINLY NOT "the battle of Armageddon."
  • OSEAS - in Reply
    MARK SISLACK

    Joel 3:2 I will also GATHER all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people...and JESUS left very clear in Matthew 25:v.31-33, saying 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations:and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. JESUS also said: In the time of HARVEST I will say to the reapers,Gather ye together first the tares,and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

    JESUS as GOD is the Son of man(capital leter)as the prophets also were son of man,and Michael(Miguel) archangel is also a son of man, and he is engaged in war ( Revelation 12) and also in the harvest,inclusive there will be resurrection and great tribulation-Dan.12:v.1-3:

    12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince( Joshua 5:13-15)which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of TROUBLE,such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:and at that time thy people shall be delivered,every one that shall be found written in the book.

    2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament;and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

    1Thes.4:15-17- 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,with the voice of the archangel-MICHAEL,and with the trump of God:and the dead in CHRIST shall rise first-RESURRECTION:

    17 Then we which
  • Mark Sislack - in Reply
    Earl Bowman,

    Does Revelation 20:8 have a relationship with Jeremiah 15:8?

    Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as THE SANDS OF THE SEA.

    Jeremiah 15:7-8 And I will fan them with a fan in the gates of the land; I will bereave them of children, I will destroy my people, since they return not from their ways.

    8 Their widows are increased to me above THE SANDS OF THE SEAS: I have brought upon them against the mother of the young men a spoiler at noonday: I have caused him to fall upon it suddenly, and terrors upon the city.

    These two prophets are referencing the SAME LITERAL battle known as WWIII where the heavens rejoice our demise.

    Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
  • Jamie - in Reply
    Earl Bowman,

    I noticed you believe all that happens in the book of Revelation is symbolic roll playing in heaven. I'd like to offer my opinion if you don't mind. What is the point of understanding scripture if the lessons are not earthly? Therefore, I pay close attention to current events while balancing both physical & spiritual realms. I see prophesy being fulfilled here on earth as a standard. I see non stop wars in the 21st century as a way of life, starting with Revelation 9 and the phony "war on terror." With that being said, I expect this current world to slip further into chaos, prompting our savior Jesus Christ to return as promised. Everything written in the Bible will manifest itself here on earth, and can be pointed out in its time, similar to Jesus acknowledging that John was in the order of Elijah. This makes living my life much more engaging, as I wait for Jesus to come smoking down the track. My approach is very personal.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply
    Jamie, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    We live in this world, the world is all around us, it effects us. But where ARE WE, are we part of the world, or ARE WE apart from the world.

    Do you spend all you time listening to the radio or television about this world and current events trying to figure out physical and literal prophesies or studying God's Word about who we are and what we will be doing for eternity.

    Jesus said there would be wars and rumors of wars, famine, pestilence and death going on around us while we are being drawn into the Kingdom of God.

    Most don't understand the kingdom of God because they spend all their time on the literal, see, hear, touch. This is going to DISAPPEAR.

    Revelation is as REAL as it gets, but the REAL meaning is HIDDEN. It's Spiritual it can't be seen.

    Which is more important to know, the devil was cast out of a literal heaven or that heaven represent you and the devil was cast out of you. Big difference. That the Harlot of Babylon is some word power or we are the harlot that left our FIRST LOVE and became unfaithful to our husband, Jesus. Big difference.

    That the beast and false prophet are OUT THERE SOMEWHERE waiting to be revealed or that we individually or the beast and false prophet and have to be destroyed by the TRUTH of God's word. Big difference.

    It becomes very personal to understand and BELIEVE that WE and the FATHER and SON are ONE.

    Jesus HAS ALREADY RETURNED if the above statement in true in you.

    Colossians 1:27 ...this mystery...CHRIST IN YOU....


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