Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Rohingya on James 2
    Is faith enough for salvation alone or must you have works?

    Belief is all that is required yes?

    Thanks.

    God bless
  • Adam - in Reply on James 2
    Believing isn't enough, because the Bible clearly says that even demons believe James 2:14-26. Even satan believes and you probably know that he's not going back to heaven. Jesus said most people will go to hell and most people on earth believe in God. So, does the math add up? Most will go to hell, despite believing. And since the Bible already says believing isn't enough, it makes a strong case that believing isn't enough. In fact, it's likely that satan is the one trying to convince Christians that they don't need to be obedient or do anything good, because they were told they didn't have to and that good works was bad. Clever trick.

    What I think is a common source of common confusion is cherry picking a verse and ignoring the context of the chapter. For instance some cite Hebrews 10:10-20 as the reason they are 'saved' permanently, regardless of their actions. So, some believe they can enjoy sin, having affairs, stealing, committing murder, with no consequence apparently. Does that sound like it comes from God? But if someone were to simply read further in the same chapter, they would see the greater context and read this...

    26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

    29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

    30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    So, it assumes that a Christian is genuine and being obedient, not willfully sinning! What a massive distinction with eternal consequences!
  • Michael - in Reply on James 2
    Hello Adam,

    I certainly do believe your viewpoint is the accurate one. If salvation is just believing and can't be lost, then why did Paul say at

    1 Corinthians 9:26-27 "I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so FIGHT I, not as one that beateth the air: But I KEEP UNDER MY BODY, and BRING IT INTO SUBJECTION: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY."

    Sounds to me that Paul disciplined himself to keep himself in God's love. He did not want to be a castaway - rejected.

    Jude 1:21 "KEEP YOURSELVES IN THE LOVE OF GOD, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."

    Notice the words of James at

    James 5:19-20 "BRETHREN, if any of YOU do ERR FROM THE TRUTH, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

    James is here speaking to the "BRETHREN" and says that it is possible for a brother (a true believer) to "ERR FROM THE TRUTH" - therefore, he must have been in the truth to start off with, otherwise he would not be erring from it. He has become, once again, a sinner and is in danger of death.

    Paul also said at

    1 Corinthians 10:12 "Wherefore let him that thinketh he STANDETH take heed lest he FALL."

    Some say that Paul is referring to those who THINK they are standing but really are not. If that were so, then why does he say LEST HE FALL. If they are not standing, they certainly cannot fall.

    What Paul is really saying is: Let him that thinks he is standing SOLIDLY, take heed that he does not fall after all.

    I leave you with these few thoughts which I thought you might enjoy.

    Take care, Adam.
  • Jesse - in Reply on James 2
    Rohingya,

    Faith is enough for salvation and here's why. There are two types of faith. There's human faith that every human being has. And then there's the faith that the Bible speaks of. A person that has biblical faith is a saved person.

    The word faith (PEITHO) literally means persuasion. It is a word that describes the presence and activity of God's Spirit in a believers life.

    So yes, a person who has faith (PEITHO) is a person who is saved.

    Also, it is God's Spirit in a believers life that produces the works. It's not human works but the activity of God's Spirit that produces spiritual works in us and through us.

    And even though belief is important, it alone does not save someone. A person must receive Christ and be born of His Spirit in order to be saved.
  • Adam - in Reply on James 2
    Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

    James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

    James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

    1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

    Romans 11

    John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

    Matthew 12:31-32

    Romans 14:12

    1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
  • S Spencer - in Reply on James 2
    Amen Jesse.

    Thanks that truth of scripture.

    God bless you
  • Jesse - in Reply on James 2
    S Spencer,

    Thank you. I also like what Earl had to say about faith where he says that Christ gives us His faith.

    The scripture teaches us that faith is a fruit of God's Spirit. Without His Spirit in us, we would only have human faith.

    We often hear and read in our English bibles the phrase "faith in Christ" but in the Greek text, it says faith of Christ. It's His faith that He gives us through His Spirit.

    It reminds me of the story when Jesus and His disciples were in a ship and it was filling with water and about to sink. Jesus was asleep and His disciples were "freaking out." And I'm thinking to myself, what, is the ship going to sink with Jesus on board?

    But when the disciples woke Him up and told Him they were about to sink, Jesus said "Oh ye of little faith."

    But what is interesting is that in the Greek text it doesn't say oh ye of little faith. It says oh ye of no faith.

    Why? Because the Holy Spirit had not yet come. They had no faith, at least not the faith the Bible speaks of!
  • S Spencer command to love the brethren - in Reply on James 2
    Jesse.

    I believe the emphasis here in John is not just the love for the brethren is evidence of

    Christ in you,

    But also the hatred for the brethren is evidence Christ is not in you.

    1 John 2:3-11. ( AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW )that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

    He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

    He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

    Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

    Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

    ""He that saith he is in the light, and HATETH his brother, is in darkness even until now.

    He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

    But he that HATETH his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.""

    1 John 4:20-21. If a man say, I love God, and HATETH his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

    ( And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.)

    THIS IS LOVE WE CAN'T COMMAND THE FLESH TO DO, THIS HIGH ORDER OF LOVE AND COMMANDMENT SEEMS TO BE MORE LIKE RECOGNITION AND VIRTUE OF THE SPIRIT.

    1 John 4:20-21. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

    And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

    IF we're not in the light we may hear

    "I NEVER KNEW YOU"

    Abide in the true vine.

    GOD BLES
  • Jesse - in Reply on James 2
    S Spencer,

    I agree. A person cannot have the Spirit of Christ living inside them and at the same time have hatred in their heart for a fellow believer.

    If a man says, I love God, and he hates his brother, his Christian brother, he is a liar: for he that loves not his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?

    And this commandment have we from Him, That he who loves God, and notice the factual statement: he that loves God, loves his brother also.

    It doesn't say should. It says loves his brother also. That's a factual statement. And again, the love is AGAPE. Man cannot produce this type of love. Only God's Spirit can produce AGAPE love. And that is why a person who has God's Spirit WILL LOVE another believer.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on James 2
    Hi Jesse, You shared with me once before how the word commandment here in

    John 13:34. A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

    has a different meaning as commandment in other scriptures.

    It is the way I learned and was sharing it, But you articulated it very well and I copied and pasted it so I don't forget it. Problem is I forgot where I pasted it.

    When you get a chance can you share that with me again?

    Thanks
  • Jesse - in Reply on James 2
    S Spencer,

    I don't recall exactly what it was but it says "A new commandment I give unto you, and I'll share with you a technical Greek point. He says "A new commandment I give to you, that ye love one another;



    In the Greek text, there is what is called a "HINA clause." In the Greek, where you see the letters ina, pronounced hee-na, that is what is called a purpose clause. He is not saying that is the command. He's saying "I'm giving you a new command (in order) that you love one another!"



    The command hasn't been given yet. The new command will be in Chapter 14 Verse 1. This is why diagramming the sentences from an original language perspective gives you a heads-up on the context of sections. There is no command until Chapter 14 Verse 1. "Love" is not a new command.



    But I'm giving you this new command in order that, purpose clause, that you love one another according as I have loved you, in order that you also love one another.



    In comparison, how did He love them? Well, He showed them the extreme love by washing their feet. He is showing them the love of God by voluntarily laying down His life for them. That is the message and impression that He is leaving for them.

    Hopefully this is what you were looking for? Or maybe it had to do with the command to love the Lord thy God, and to love your neighbor as yourself which in the Greek text is really not a command for us to do?
  • S Spencer - in Reply on James 2
    Thanks Jesse,

    They're both useful and serves great

    purpose.

    I believe it had to do with the command to love the Lord thy God, and to love your neighbor as yourself which in the Greek text is really not a command for us to do."

    God bless.
  • Jesse - in Reply on James 2
    Matthew 22:37 (Part 2)

    Here is the second part I promised:

    I just wanted to take the Verse a little deeper from a Greek perspective.



    If you notice the word "with." Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. Well, it is the Greek word EN, which means in.



    All three prepositional phrases are "in." You will love the Lord your God (in) your whole heart, and (in) your whole soul and (in) your whole mind.



    Please notice the location?



    I am not going to love with it. I am going to be in it. It is going to be in me, in my inner being. That is how it is literally translated in the Greek.

    You see, God gives us the ability to love Him because in the natural, we do not have that capability. So Jesus says this is the first commandment.



    Can you imagine how many years have we gone by with people thinking that the first commandment is a commandment?

    No, the commandment is YOU WILL. There is no choice there! It is not an invitation like I hope you will, or could you, or should you.



    You will, because God's Spirit is the one who has the love. He is the one who loves. And when you have God's Spirit in you, you are in God's love.



    And we have to be sensitive to the fact that AGAPE love is not an action, something we have to go out and do. Agape love is a person. That person is Christ. And if we have Christ, we will love Him with all our heart, mind, and soul. And we will love our neighbor (fellow believer) as ourself. It's not a command for us to go out and do. It is something we will do because His Spirit in us gives us the ability to do so!

    Blessings in Christ Jesus!
  • S Spencer - in Reply on James 2
    Hi brother Jesse.

    John 13:36-37. Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

    Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

    " Something we know Peter couldn't do.

    Peter couldn't Agape the Lord the way he thought he could, "

    And in the English it's not obvious but in

    John 21:15 he basically admits it using phileo to answer the Lord.

    "Yea, Lord thou knowest that I love thee "

    not Agape as the Lord asked.

    So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, YEA, LORD; THOU KNOWEST THAT I LOVE THEE. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

    The 3rd time the Lord asked he also used phileo, Instead of Agape and Peter wept.

    What Peter couldn't do in John 13:36-37,

    ( Follow the Lord to his death )

    The Lord tells him it's what he's "GOING" to do in John 21:18-19.

    Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.

    This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, FOLLOW ME.

    Once filled with the Holy Spirit Peter preached the Gospel boldly knowing his fate was death.

    It's amazing what we can do when the Spirit of God is in you.

    You can know the scripture and walk alongside Christ but without the Holyspirit baptism WHEN YOU TRULY BELIEVE. it means nothing.

    Matthew 7:22-23. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    AGAPE YOUR BRETHREN.

    HERE BY WE KNOW!!

    God bless.
  • Jesse - in Reply on James 2
    No worries brother Spencer,

    It probably came from Matthew 22:37. The term "Thou shalt love" is not in command form. That is a Future Active Indicative in the Greek text. It is not a command. It is a factual statement. You will love!

    Believers are supposed to love one another. But, neither in the Old Testament, nor in the New Testament, is it in command form.



    As a matter of fact, the command in the Old Testament is YOU WILL love the Lord your God, and YOU WILL love your neighbor as yourself. It is a factual statement!



    It all centers around where the commands came from, Deuteronomy Chapter 6 that has the SHEMA, the prayer that is prayed every morning and evening by Orthodox Jews.



    In that prayer, they recite the fact that God says that I will put my Spirit in you, and I will put my laws on your heart, and YOU WILL love the Lord your God.

    We are told in Galatians 5:22 that love, AGAPE, is a fruit of God's Spirit.



    In 1 John Chapter 4, it tells us that God is love. Now if I focus on the fact that God is love, and I've been commanded to love, and God is love, then what am I to do? Give you God, because He is love. Love is a person. Love is the nature of God!



    In my human abilities, or in my human effort, I cannot produce God's nature of love. I can't produce that!



    And as I said, Galatians 5:22 tells us it is a fruit. It is produced by God's Spirit, just like faith, and all the other ingredients that make up the fruit of the Spirit.



    Some continue to take scriptures out of context and put pressure on themselves to produce these things, when the bible says no.

    The bible says point-blank that if you're not loving your brother, then you don't know God! If you do not have AGAPE love in you, you are not saved. That is what the bible says.

    I am running out of space but want to share a little more on Matthew 22:37 from a Greek perspective. It is some pretty powerful stuff!

    I'll send it as Matthew 22:37 (Part 2)
  • S Spencer - in Reply on James 2
    Thanks Brother Jesse!!

    That's it, and in much more detail.

    This time I will hold on to this treasure and not forget where I pasted it.

    Thanks

    Goodnight and God bless.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on James 2
    Brother Jesse, I agree with every word you wrote. We are predestined to be the LIKENESS of Christ; as he could do nothing of himself, the Father did it all through him; we do nothing our self, Christ does it all through us. We are the vessel, we only hold Christ. We are the body of Christ.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on James 2
    Amen Brother Earl.

    Vessels we are,

    If we take hold of that it will solve a lot of debates.

    God bless.
  • Jesse - in Reply on James 2
    Amen Earl,

    It is Christ who works in us and through us. It's His work. But it is such a blessing when He uses us to accomplish His will. I had someone years ago tell me that they were doing God's work. I said "Oh yea, how's that working out for you? They didn't know how to answer that. That person then told me that's what we are supposed to do as believers. I then said "If God is counting on me to do His work for Him, then He is in trouble." That conversation ended quickly as that person didn't want to talk anymore!
  • Sach - in Reply on James 2
    S Spenser ,please forgive me for butting in and please correct me if im wrong ,i may have the wrong end of the stick ,do you say that we are not commanded to love our neighbour ? If ive misunderstood i am sorry ,Luke ch10 v25-37 ,im sure i must be mistaken as im sure you must know this parable .
  • S Spencer - in Reply on James 2
    Hi Sacha,

    You're not butting in, I don't think any private conversations on this site.

    The context in this comment was those who "HATE THE BRETHEREN' the love Christ is not in them.

    "If Christ dwell in us and we in him, his spirit CAUSE us to love one another.

    quoting me now:

    "I believe the emphasis here in John is not just the love for the brethren is evidence of

    Christ in you,

    But also the hatred for the brethren is evidence Christ is not in you."

    Here's THE VERSES.

    1 John 3;18-21. My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

    And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

    For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

    Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

    "We may fool one anther but not God." God knows the Heart!!

    1 John 2:8-11. Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

    He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

    But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

    1 John 4:20-21. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

    And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

    1 John 2:5. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected:

    ( hereby know we that we are in him.)

    We are to display Gods love on all men, But Agape/Love which is one of 3 loves in scripture, It's what is used here towards the brethern WHERE BY WE KNOW! Christ is in us.

    God bless
  • S Spencer - in Reply on James 2
    Thanks Jesse and Earl,

    That reminds me of 1 Corinthians 10:1-2. Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

    AND WE'RE ALL BAPTIZED UNTO MOSES in the cloud and in the sea;

    I believe the Children of Israel was scared pass thru the red sea, They was ready to go back to Egypt. They went over on Moses faith.

    Thanks and God bless.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on James 2
    Rohingya, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

    Of ourselves we have NO FAITH or works; when Christ CALLS he gives us HIS FAITH to answer.

    Philippians 3:9 .....but that which is through THE FAITH OF CHRIST, the righteousness which is of GOD be FAITH (of CHRIST).

    Galatians 2:16 .....but by FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST .....

    Ephesians 3:12 In whom (IN CHRIST) we have boldness and access in CONFIDENCE by the FAITH OF HIM.

    James 2:17 Even so FAITH (Christ in you), if it (Faith) (Christ in you) hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    The Christ calls, give faith to believe, causes you to respond, purifies you, makes you whole, causes you to walk in his statutes. ( Ezekiel 36:25-27)

    Faith without works is dead; BUT, it's HIS faith and HIS works. You bear THE GIFT, the FULLNESS OF CHRIST.

    Colossians 1:27....of this MYSTERY, CHRIST IN YOU....

    John 6:29 ....This is the WORK OF GOD, that you BELIEVE on him who he hath sent.

    Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is GIVEN on behalf of Christ, not only TO BELIEVE ....

    God bless



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