Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Kathleen on Matthew 24
    Some believe salvation can be lost. I don't because that would imply some type of condition is attached to it or works required. Where do AOG, among others, get this idea? I have been searching it out but can't find it plainly stated. I believe there is misinterpretation on the part if those who believe this lie.

    Can someone please share where this wrong theory is supposedly found and how it came to be. AOG stems from Baptist and I know Baptists do not believe salvation can be lost.

    Thank you!
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Kathleen,

    You just nailed it! Losing salvation would require works on our part, and salvation is not of works. I also believe that salvation cannot be lost. I believe in the eternal security of the believer because I know who saves us, and I know who has the power to keep us saved, and said He would keep us saved until He comes for us. We've been purchased. We were bought with a price. We have been sealed by God's Spirit as a mark of ownership. There is only one who can break that seal, and it is Christ.

    If you ever get a chance to engage in conversation with someone who tells you salvation can be lost, ask them if they believe they personally will lose theirs. I have been in those conversations before and almost every time I ask the person if they think they will lose theirs, they will tell me that they will never lose theirs. I even had one person tell me that they will never lose their salvation because "They love the Lord too much" to ever lose theirs. But the same person will tell you that you can lose yours, Hmmm!

    A person who believes they can lose their salvation is not fully trusting in the one who saved them, the one who has sealed them, and the one who has said He will never leave us. We are kept by the mighty power of God. Jesus said all that the Father has given to Him, He will not lose one. That sounds pretty permanent to me!
  • Adam - in Reply on Matthew 24
    No one is saved until after they are judged on the day of judgment. We can have hope and assurance of salvation if we genuinely follow Jesus, but the Bible doesn't say anywhere that you will be saved regardless of your beliefs, faith, actions. Does that mean 100% of all people are saved, even Hitler and mass murderers? Jesus said most people will go to hell, so that doesn't square up. He even said many will cry out Lord, Lord, assuming they will make it to heaven, but won't. He even warned his followers (Christians) to obey and not fall into sin. If everyone was saved regardless, then it's unlikely Jesus would have warned so many people with parables.

    This one verse Luke 12:10 says whomever commits this sin will not be forgiven. The idea of once saved, always saved contradicts itself, because it assumes a person who becomes a Christian no longer has freewill, which is untrue and inconsistent with the Bible. Even angels in heaven had freewill and chose to rebel, like satan. So, just because someone responds to an altar call and decides to follow Jesus doesn't mean he instantly is stripped of freewill. He absolutely still has a choice every day of who he wants to follow: Jesus, or the world (satan). Sadly, too many Christians have denounced their faith and have turned to follow the world. Becoming a Christian doesn't give anyone a license to commit unlimited sin and those who have spread this lie is doing the work of satan. There are many verses in the Bible supporting this and are posted often in the discussion threads.

    Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

    James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

    James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

    1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

    Romans 11

    John 14:15
  • Kathy - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

    Amen to these professions of faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    If salvation can be lost, by what means? What is the ultimate sin? Murder? Then the man after God's own heart had to start his salvation all over again. Is God an Indian giver? Here you have my salvation but you practiced free will and sinned so I retract your salvation.??? Really?

    Those scriptures you gave are misquoted. 1John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God that ye May KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

    15 And if we know that he hear us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

    Yes! We choose Him as Lord and Savior. We choose to follow Him of our own free will. We are not puppets on a string nor do we want to be.

    Salvation at judgement? What Bible are you reading? Blessed Assurance!
  • Adam - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Kathy, you asked where in the Bible it says that salvation can be lost and someone was kind enough to respond and show you exactly where. Some of the questions were already answered on the reply.

    I will go ahead and reply to your specific questions again in hope that this could be a genuine question.

    >If salvation can be lost, by what means?

    Luke 12:10 says blasphemy of the holy ghost is unforgiveable. That means if someone chooses to commit this sin, Christian or not, they will not be forgiven and will go to hell.

    Hebrews 10:26

    "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,". This means if a Christian continues in unrepentant sin they are in danger of having no grace to save them.

    >Those scriptures you gave are misquoted.

    No, they are not misquoted. When you hover over them they show the 100% correct scriptures. When I referred to them I highlighted the portion of scripture being referred to by using elipses... For proper context one should read the whole chapter and book.

    >Here you have my salvation but you practiced free will and sinned so I retract your salvation.??? Really?

    Is this an emotional argument being presented against the Bible? You will have to take that up with God. Luke 12:10 is clear and there's not much room to interpret it any other way. I'd be quite surprised if Christians who have denounced the faith, turned their back on God, who hate God and have chosen to commit unlimited sin, are welcomed to spent eternity with God in heaven. Likewise, what Jesus said in John 14:15 is clear. If someone doesn't obey, that means they don't love Jesus. Do you expect ho doesn't love Jesus go to heaven?

    I've also heard an illogical argument claiming that real Christians can't or won't deny Jesus, as if they no longer have freewill. If this were true then there wouldn't be "ex-Christian" social media forums. Prominent Christian evangelists have denounced the faith before. Satan is real and can deceive Christians.

    >Salvation at judgement?

    Romans 14:12. 1 Peter 1:13, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 2 Peter 2:9
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 24
    If I may add, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is something that is committed by a non-believer. Blasphemy is a term that expresses rejection. So when the Holy Spirit comes and convicts a person of their sin and their need for Christ, if that person rejects that testimony, they have committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and they will not be forgiven for that. A person who receives the testimony when God's Spirit comes and shows them their need of a Savior, and if they surrender their life to Christ, that person has not committed the unpardonable sin, nor will the ever because God's Spirit living in them will keep them from doing so.
  • Adam - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Dear Jesse,

    Do you have a Bible verse to support that belief that blasphemy of the holy ghost can't be done by believers or Christians? I'm not aware of that being stated anywhere in the Bible, so unless I see that I will deem that untrue. By default, everything Jesus says is relevant and applicable to all.

    Judas was a Christian in the literal sense and after he betrayed Christ he died a horrible death. I don't believe he went to heaven. Peter also denied Christ and I believe was blasphemous and likely sending him hell bound. But Jesus made a special exception as described in John 21:15-25 and asked him if he loved Him. John 14:15.

    The Bible had disciples follow Him and listen to everything He said and He spoke to everyone.

    Matthew 13:10-17 - says Jesus spoke in parables so those who believed would understand. He spoke many parables about the risk of going to hell with his followers (Christians). So, one might ask: if Jesus spoke in parables aimed at believers, and if he spoke them most often to his Christian followers, and if most parables are about most people going to hell and how to avoid that, then one might conclude that Christians weren't 'saved' yet and actually had to proactively avoid sin.

    Does a Christian still have freewill to turn their back on Jesus and commit the unpardonable sin that Jesus warned Christians about? Of course.

    Satan is the father of lies and he loves spreading falsehoods. Which is more likely that he's trying to deceive Christians into being more obedient than needed? Or that he's trying to deceive Christians into assuming they're already saved regardless of their actions, that they can commit unlimited sin, and enjoy sin, to live in the world, to love the world, and assume they have a get out of hell free card?

    Satan is unlikely to do the former and very likely to do the latter. Many Christians would love to commit sin if they knew they were saved regardless. That would be exactly what satan wants. Mat 7:21
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Hello Adam. I have been reading all the comments on this thread (& others). And I don't want to 'clutter' this thread with further similar comments. But looking for that 'common denominator' that brings about this great division in understanding, I feel that it boils down to our perception of "who is a Christian?".

    It seems clear that folk like Jesse, myself & others have a very 'narrow' understanding of the word "Christian", whereas yours & others, have a much broader understanding. The disciples were never 'Christians' during Jesus' days on Earth. They were simply Christ's disciples (as those under instruction by a Rabbi/teacher) & they followed Christ in His ministry. It was only after the Church was established that these followers of Jesus were referred to by other terms. One term was, "The Way" Sect, probably as seen by its use in Acts 9:2; 19:9,23; 24:14,22. Another term was, "The Sect of the Nazarenes" ( Acts 24:5). And yes, they were also called "Christians" first in Antioch ( Acts 11:26) & was used as a derogatory word ('Followers of the Anointed").

    But if we take that name given to Christians as valid for us today (as it is), then we must know what that name implies. Can it just be applied, as the world & Christendom generally does, to any who profess to follow Christ, goes to Church, prays to God, reads from the Bible, etc.? Or, should the word apply to those who have been brought under conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit, born again, infilled & in constant communion with the Spirit? I think you will agree to the latter which is in stark contrast to the other.

    Then you gave an example:"I know a Christian right now who has premarital sex, watches porn, and does drugs" & say that we believe that this is a Christian, then I (& we) would disagree with you. Ultimately, God is the only judge of our hearts, not us. All I know is the one who is a true Christian lives a different life, follows different Laws (of the Spirit) & cannot live in unrestrained sin.
  • Adam - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Hello Chris,

    If you agree that your definition of a Christian is different, then what is your definition? What exact criteria makes someone a Christian in your view?

    My criteria is: believe Jesus Christ, repent/confess sin, and be baptized. Matthew 10:32, John 3:16, Luke 5:32, Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16. A Christian is a Christ follower, which is an action. It is an ongoing activity and responsibility to follow Jesus and obey Him and strive to live a holy life. It takes great effort to do this avoid sin. Look at Paul's struggle in Romans 7. John 14:15. Romans 12:2, James 2:26, John 8:11.

    The gentleman I previously spoke about did all the above and is a Christian, but you said he wasn't. Why not? In your view is a Christian not a Christian if he sins just once, or twice, or does it depend on the sin?

    And Jesus's followers were indeed Christians. A literal Christ follower is as true to being a Christian as you can possibly get. They literally followed Him around all day, listened to His teachings, believed Him, tried to emulate Him. Judas and Peter both denied and betrayed Him as Christians, because they had freewill to do so, just like Satan had freewill in heaven to do what he did, and just like so many Christians do today, by leaving, denying the faith, committing sin.

    What is most sad is this Christian I referred to living in sin right now is doing so because of messages he's been told like you're telling. He's been brainwashed into believing he is already saved and he can now do whatever he wants- that it's impossible to lose his salvation. And now he's enjoying sin and doing all kinds of evil, because he was told he's saved and in the book of life. Christians who think they can get by with committing unlimited sin are completely ignoring what Jesus said. ( John 14:15). That's like slapping Jesus in the face. Romans 14:13. We are to not cause others to stumble.
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Page 4.

    And I realize that you have seen a lot of evidences of 'Christians doing whatever they like after being saved'. Clearly, this is not the Gospel & if that was preached to them, then the preacher will be held to account also. That's what we call, 'easy believism', when ultimately there is a mental assent without any real meaningful spiritual conviction & change. And this is difficult for another person to detect, as that type of 'Christian' can appear very Christian even mimicking the 'real deal'. The Scripture teaches & has always been the yearning of the apostles' hearts, that the readers of their epistles be warned of sin's damaging effects ( Romans 6:1-17) that any teaching or human belief that allows for sin & righteousness to cohabit together, is not of God & not what they were taught. And let's face it, we Christians do need regular reminders to stay on the path that leads to Heaven & not entertain sin that disrupts our holy relationship with the Godhead which could lead to painful discipline.

    I apologize for the length of this response brother, but felt it necessary to lay out my belief, so you may know my understanding of the biblical Christian, that he is always in subjection to the Spirit's Word & Work, & his life both now & till the end, will bear testimony of the reality of that salvation experience he claims to have had.
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Page 3.

    Another example: what is a policeman? Is he not one who wears the uniform & badge, carries a firearm & gets his salary accordingly? But does he have to also behave, act & make judgements as one also? Some might say, 'No', if he is recognized as one (uniform, badge, salary) he is a policeman. I say that his conduct & judgements are also included. If he behaves as a thief, a rapist or murderer, his uniform & badge are worthless & he has lost that position & privilege. In a somewhat similar fashion, I see the 'Christian'. It is not only his confession & profession of faith, but also his behaviour & the working of the Spirit in his life. If no evidence of the operation of the Spirit (conviction, pleadings, etc.), no spiritual life in him, spurious faith, an imposter.

    As far as the word, "Christian" goes. The disciples may have been Christian, if meaning, 'a follower of Christ', but certainly not in meaning under the New Covenant, as a "Spirit-indwelt follower of Christ" because if one is not Spirit-indwelt, the word 'Christian' is a misnomer. And they only became Christians from the Day of Pentecost.
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Page 2.

    An onlooker might see some of this 'Christian' behaviour & fruit, but he doesn't see all, because we have neither that power nor privilege to do so. We accept each 'Christian' based on his testimony, his life & the need to build each other in the faith. If he should fall, we are to pick up & restore him in the spirit of meekness ( Galatians 6:1). But if he persists in his folly without repentance, as in 1 Corinthians chap 5, he is to be rejected, handed over to the kingdom of darkness that his spirit might yet be saved in the Day of Christ. As also seen in 1 Corinthians 11:27-30.

    So how does this then apply to your sad example of one who has given himself over to such sins? If he is/was a believer as you say, then there might still be hope that God is working in him - sometimes our fall is great so that our salvation might be greater. But if he has given his condition due thought, has no sense of conviction by the Spirit & may even have said that he rejects everything he has heard or believed, are we to assume that he is a fallen Christian or one that has never climbed out of the pit in the first place? Again, we cannot judge: we don't know man's heart & we don't know God's Work in that heart. One thing is certain, God makes no mistakes: those He saves, He saves to the uttermost ( Hebrews 7:25). If that person has fallen into the snare, God will speak & he will be retrieved. If he chooses the life of sin being apart from God & has no conviction, he was never a child of God without His Spirit in spite of any claims or apparent 'fruit', as the Spirit Who seals cannot abide in or tolerate such a life.
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Page 1.

    Hi Adam. I agree with you in your definition of a Christian, & more: conviction of sin, repentance, re-birth, Spirit baptism & indwelling, fruit/gifts of the Spirit received, earnest desire to live for God & not for oneself & the World, hates sin & struggles against temptation & sin, has his citizenship in Heaven, longs to talk to his Heavenly Father & also to hear from Him, & ultimately will persevere in this life of burden, cares & suffering, being triumphant in the battle against Satan.

    One might say that I've added more to its meaning, as shown in Romans 10:9, making the definition too restrictive. But the Roman's formula (confess + believe = salvation) is the essence, but the Christians' desire to hate sin, to live for God, to worship this Saviour God, to persevere, etc., are responses of the Holy Spirit indwelling. This must be the case, for that is the very Work of the Spirit, to form Christ in us ( Galatians 4:19) which is not always an immediate but an ongoing work in a believers' life. That's why I like Jesus' simple parable of the Sower ( Matthew 13:3-23); even though it speaks of the reception of God's Word to the hearer, Jesus is questioning how people would respond when the Living Word of God standing before them would receive & respond to Him. A proper response to that Word, its planting, germination, growth, fruitfulness & abiding until the time of physical deterioration & death, is the definition of one in whom God's Word & Seed of Salvation has truly done its blessed work.
  • Carleton - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Dear brother Chris, as brethren we must care that a fellow Christian whom has been found in a fault, and by love and admonition we help this one be restored to the True Faith once delivered even though we know the day of rest. Without this care we allow our example to be diminished in favoritism towards a fellow believing Christian found in the same fault as an unbelieving non- Christian. What witness of love is this for a brother in fault or a neighbor with a cry in their heart to know what is truth if we ignore our brother's fault. The harvest is not over because time continues, so our light must also continue to be a drawing, without hypocrisy.
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Brother Carleton. I agree that if a brother "be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted." ( Galatians 6:1).

    As the apostles did in encouraging the Church to walk in the way of holiness, likewise must we give due regard to the brethren caught in Satan's traps. We have not been given the privilege to know any man's heart or his standing before God. We accept the testimony & the life of the believer as genuine, treating him/her with Christian love giving due care & concern. Likewise, the apostles taught or warned the believers, not knowing their true spiritual condition, but accepting them in the faith.

    So, as I see the discussions here, it's not whether there is a Christian responsibility to help a fallen believer & restore him to faith by the power of the Spirit, but whether the fallen (away) 'believer' has considered his erroneous ways & his love for the world & its offerings having a greater appeal than what the blessed Lord has done & promised him. The question then is: is such a 'believer' truly a child of God, having no exercise of spirit, having no appeal & warning from the Holy Spirit to change course, but he goes on blindly & carelessly into damnation. Therefore, since we cannot judge the heart of man & how the seed of God has fallen into that soil, we are constrained to not cast judgement but find recourse to the fact that 'whom God saves, He saves entirely into eternity'. Blessings to you - have a good day at work.
  • Carleton - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Thank you brother Chris, When I can I will write some more. Pray for my wife's dad and mom, mom is facing her last days as a faithful Christian, wife and mother. And here closer by is a fallen brother with a young family with maybe one converted child. He is now in jail. I have loved him since he was a young boy. The law itself will be judging him and it is our hope to restore his faith and place in Jesus Christ like mom-in-law and dad-in-law have carried to a very old age together. Back to making work happen. Thanks for the encouragement.
  • Carleton - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Mom-in-law was born in Oklahoma in the dust bowl years. She was born pre-mature so they put her in a shoe box behind the wood stove and expected her to not make the night. Now she has many grand children all of which are faithful Christians except for the youngest grandchild whom is not converted. Many of the grandchildren have children already and are being raised in loving Christian homes and they know the faith and love of their grandmother and grandfather.

    :)
  • Carleton - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Another break! My wife's folks live a couple thousand miles away so her brother is helping make decisions on what's next for mom and dad. Currently they are in their home. Meanwhile my wife dropped of our youngest (the youngest grandchild) at the country Christian school and is now driving further west and north to see our fallen brother's wife. I hope and pray that she can comfort this young man's wife with the love that is shed from above. We all have broken hearts right now and are looking to Jesus for His understanding in us regarding this family. Christian life is for real and is to the finish.

    Keep the faith!

    :)
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Thank you brother Carleton for sharing the pain you're carrying in your heart for your loved ones. This not only makes us realize the fraility of humanity but also shows the pain that our loving Heavenly Father also bears when He experiences mankind's rejection, who count His Spirit's pleadings & His Son's sacrifice of no consequence.

    If we then bear this pain & shed tears for our loved ones, our Father's pain for the lost & suffering must be unfathomable to our minds. We can rest assured that as we pray, He hears, & He will perform that which is perfect in His perfect Time. I will remember your mother-in-law & your fallen brother in prayer, that God's ministry will not only be special & precious to them but that you, your wife & others, will be kept at peace with praise & hope only upon the One Who does all things well. May God's Light continue to beam its blessed rays through you, dear brother.
  • Carleton - in Reply on Matthew 24
    It has been a long day, and our Hope continues. God bless our walk together this day brother Chris.

    Thank you for your love.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Hello Adam,

    Do I have a Bible verse to support my belief that blasphemy of the Holy Ghost can't be done by believers or Christians? No verse that specifically says so. But to use one of your analogies, the bible doesn't say that Jesus ever went to the bathroom, but I'm sure He did.

    Let me ask you this. You're a Christian. I have no reason to believe otherwise. I know you have a deep love for our Lord and Savior. So let me ask you, do you personally believe that you will ever blaspheme the Holy Spirit?

    And no, Judas was not a Christian. Jesus chose an evil man (Judas) to fulfill an evil deed that was prophesied. Judas was a thief the whole time he was with Christ. Jesus knew Judas was evil and that's why he chose him. He needed an evil man to fulfill an evil deed.

    Matthew 13:10 tells me that Jesus was speaking a parable to unbelieving Jews. The only reason why the disciples would understand is that they would come to Him and ask Him what these parables meant.

    To answer your question about free will, I will ask you, do you believe you will turn your back on Jesus and commit the unpardonable sin?

    I believe that I still have free will. I can choose to be disobedient. But God has a way of chastising and disciplining those who belong to Him and sometimes it can be very harsh.

    I can't speak for others but I can speak for myself on your last questions. I believe in the permanency of salvation. However, I DO NOT believe I have any right to live a lifestyle of sin because I'm saved regardless. You are going to be very hard pressed to find someone who believes they can "commit unlimited sin, and enjoy sin, to live in the world, to love the world, and assume they have a get out of hell free card?"

    Finally, you say that "Many Christians would love to commit sin if they knew they were saved regardless." I've known many Christians in my lifetime, but have yet to meet one that believes that way.
  • Adam - in Reply on Matthew 24
    By the way, if someone denies that a Christian is capable of sinning, perhaps consider hearing some testimonies. Or just ask Christians you know and trust and maybe they will open up to you. There are a bunch of testimonies on this website too and many include Christians who have fallen away, committed all kinds of sin and have rededicated themselves. Of course, not all who fall away come back, just like Judas denying Jesus. He was literally a follower of Christ so he was a Christian in the truest sense of the word. Consider reading the ex-Christian forum on reddit and ask yourself if everyone there will be saved, regardless of their actions. Some have gotten into the occult and demonic practices. That argument that Christians are either incapable or don't sin quickly falls apart when you actually know people who have done that. And then the argument that they were never real Christians to begin with just contradicts itself. Because what then is your definition of a Christian and what precisely do they have to do? Do they have to believe, repent, confess sin, and be baptized or do they need to be more. Because Christians did that exact thing and followed Jesus for years before deciding not to. It's such a strange argument to deny that reality. It's a very sad thing when a Christian leaves the faith, but it's also sad to deny it. Consider praying deeply about this and I will as well. God bless.
  • Adam - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Dear Jesse,

    My point was that Jesus's words were and are for all, and your point is that they aren't. Then I ask you to backup this with scripture and you dodged and asked me that. Just so I understand, your argument is that not all of Jesus's words and message is for everyone, such as to Christians? If Jesus's mentions about blaphemy don't apply to Christians, then what else do you think doesn't apply to Christians? What process do you use to determine which of Jesus's words then apply to you?

    Your other argument seems not based on scripture, but merely an emotional speculative one about you not feeling capable of certain sin. That's great if you feel protected, solid, and have your armor of God on at this time. Just because you personally don't feel you're capable of something at this point of time doesn't mean it's impossible for someone in general to falter. Anyone can be tempted by satan. Plenty of Christians have had affairs, lied, done drugs, coveted, even killed, followed the world, and have even backtracked and drifted away from Christ. It's a strange argument to claim to deny that Christians have freewill to sin, and have the freewill to commit horrible unspeakable acts, including blaphemy.

    >I DO NOT believe I have any right to live a lifestyle of sin because I'm saved regardless. You are going to be very hard pressed to find someone who believes they can "commit unlimited sin, and enjoy sin, to live in the world, to love the world, and assume they have a get out of hell free card?"

    It's hard to comprehend this as you appear to live in another world. Christians are rampantly involved in sin. It's absolutely sickening to see. I know a Christian right now who has premarital sex, watches porn, and does drugs and stopped going. According to you he can have total assurance of salvation with zero concern? What if he kills? What about blasphemes? No worries? If so why did Jesus say the opposite to Christians? Luke 12:5, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Hebrews 10:26
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Adam,

    You are obviously not understanding what I am saying and mischaracterizing my words. Yes, I also can be tempted to sin just like everyone else. And the person you are describing as being a "Christian" is not a person that I would be comfortable calling a brother or sister in Christ. Jesus said you would know them by their fruit and it seems as though this person is not being led by God's Spirit. It's those types of people who claim to be Christian and yet are involved in those thing that we are not to have fellowship with.
  • Y2K6607 - in Reply on Matthew 24
    I like your thoughts. They have elements of the truth and I believe they are your truth. Are you a saved vessel moving forward though and do you know your left from your right? If so what does the Breastplate of Christ stand for? Once in Grace always in Grace--you will have Tribulations but Be of Good Cheer, For I have overcome the World. Amen.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Brother Jesse, may CHRIST IN us grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    Matthew 12:32 ...... it shall not be forgive him, neither in this WORLD, or the WORLD to come.

    Could you please tell us the Greek word for WORLD; and how it is applied in the other places it occurs.

    Thank you.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Earl,

    The Greek word KOSMOS is used in several places for our English word world. In Matthew 12:32, KOSMOS is not used. Instead, we see the words AIONI, and then we see the word MELLONTI. The KJV says neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

    Reading it from the Greek text and replacing KOSMOS with the two Greek words I just mentioned, it reads, "Neither in this age (AIONI), nor in the coming one (MELLONTI).

    So the Greek text has more than one word for our English word world. If you are needing every place these words are used and the application in each instance, this will take quite a bit of time for me to do. Hopefully, just the two in Matthew 12:32 will suffice.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Brother Jesse, thank you.

    May CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

    The scriptures teach things are done in ages or generations. We are in the church age. So the sin of blasphemy want be forgiven in this age or the one after this age; but, could be forgiven somewhere beyond those two ages.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Thanks Jesse.

    What I wonder about blaspheming the Holyspirit is that when you reject the Holyspirit today but accepts tomorrow is that NOT rejection? In other words, is it a repeated rejection that lasts a lifetime? Or are we given a reprobate mind after the first rejection and become numb.

    I never had a full understanding of this verse.

    Any further insight?

    Thanks. God bless.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 24
    S Spencer,

    We read about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in Matthew 12:31-32. In Verse 31, Jesus introduces the unpardonable sin and I want to point something out to you. See the word "wherefore?" The Greek literally reads "On account of this."

    And what it means is that the foundation or premise for the teaching of the unpardonable sin is found in Matthew 12:30 where He says the one who is not with me is against me, and the one who is not continually gathering with me is being scattered.

    Blasphemy is a word that is used to express rejection. This would be a person who refuses to gather with Christ in the whole process of the testimony of God's Spirit. If they reject God's Spirit, and His persuasion and His conviction over their life, they cannot be forgiven for that.

    To answer your question, when God's Spirit enlightens a person to the truth, that person will either be drawn to the light, or they will try and get away from it. But there will always be a response to God's Spirit testifying to that person. A person who is receptive to the truth, God's Spirit will continue to draw that person to Christ, and eventually, that person will surrender their life to Him.

    Now the person who is not receptive to the persuasion of God's Spirit showing them their condition and need for Christ, I don't believe God will give up on that person immediately. I believe it is a continuous rejection and if a person dies in that state of rejection, their sins will never be forgiven.

    When God gives someone over to a reprobate mind, that is not a good thing for that person. It is basically God giving up on them because God knows who those are that will never surrender their life to Him.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Hi Jesse.

    I meant "Thanks again Jesse. "

    not to good at multitasking.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Thanks another Jesse.

    That's what I was thinking, I just wasn't sure. The greek certainly helps in this case and many others.

    God bless.
  • Jb - in Reply on Matthew 24
    No one is saved by the works they do.

    Ephesians 2:8-9

    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    And you are saved the moment you believe Jesus died for your sins.

    Romans 10:9-10

    That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. [10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    What James 2 is talking about is that saving faith produces good works. If you get saved, but there is no change in your life, you're not saved.

    2 Corinthians 5:17

    Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    James 2:17

    Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    Once saved always saved is true. If one of Jesus's sheep goes astray, he will go after it.

    Matthew 18:12

    How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

    Romans 8:38-39

    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Of course we are not free to sin

    Romans 6:1-2

    What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

    if you continue in the sin and you don't repent or care, then it's willful sin.

    But if you do repent

    1 John 1:9

    If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 24
    JB,

    Thanks for sharing Romans 8:38-39. Paul says "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

    In other words, nothing can separate us from Christ, not even our own flesh!
  • Michael - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Hello Jesse,

    I would share another angle of the verse you quoted. Please, read carefully the verse.

    Romans 8:38-39 "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate "US" from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    The word "US" is referring to believing and obedient Christians. It is not referring to those Christians who have stopped believing and obeying God. There are those who that. Very faithful for years and then they apostatize. We can keep ourselves in God's love or we can not keep ourselves in God's love. It is our choice. We are told by the Apostles to fight hard to not stop believing or willfully practice sin.

    John 15:10 "IF ye KEEP my commandments, ye shall abide (remain) in my love; even as I have KEPT my Father's commandments, and abide (remain) in his love."

    Jude 1:21 "KEEP YOURSELVES in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."

    1 Corinthians 9:26-27 "I (Paul) therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so FIGHT I, not as one that beateth the air: But I KEEP UNDER MY BODY, and bring it INTO SUBJECTION: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY.

    2 Timothy 4: 7-8 "I" (Paul) have FOUGHT a good FIGHT, "I" (Paul) have FINISHED my course, "I" (Paul) have KEPT the faith: HENCEFORTH there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

    Revelation 3:5 "He that OVERCOMETH, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will NOT blot out his name OUT of THE BOOK OF LIFE, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

    Good day, Jesse.
  • Adam - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Hello, if that's true then how does that reconcile with Luke 12:10. Do you not think that committing blasphemy of the holy ghost would separate you from Christ?
  • Andrew Kingsly Raj - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Good Answer

    Once we are saved; we were sealed by the holy Ghost and God promised a place in Heaven

    Ephesians 4:30

    And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

    John 14:2

    In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
  • Adam - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Hi Andrew, that's not what that verse means. Having the holy spirit sealed to you doesn't mean you're stripped of freewill to commit sin and doesn't mean you don't have choices still of who you will follow: Jesus or satan. We're not saved until after we're judged and this doesn't happen until after this life. 1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." 1 Corinthians 9:24-27, Matthew 7:21

    Also blasphemy was mentioned as a warning for a reason. If someone claims Christians are without sin they are not being honest, Ecclesiastes 7:20. And someone claiming they can do whatever they want (sin) and face no consequences are gravely mistaken. John 14:15.

    Link

    Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

    James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

    James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

    1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

    Romans 11

    Matthew 12:31-32

    Romans 14:12
  • Jansen - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Amen! One must take all scriptures in context to gain proper understanding of God's truth. Sadly in this discussion we see cherry picking and ignoring verses that maybe are inconvenient to what someone wants to believe, rather than taking God's word at face value in context, praying, and seeking Him for understanding. We all should pray for wisdom in understanding the scriptures.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Andrew,

    Sealed unto the day of redemption, Amen!!!



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