Bible Discussion Thread Page 3

 
  • Temeko - In Reply on Romans 5 - 2 years ago
    Thank you.
  • S Spencer Hebrews 6 - In Reply on Romans 5 - 2 years ago
    Michael.

    I errored on previous reply. I believe

    Hebrews 6. is talking to believers, BUT not about SALVATION. If we can loose our salvation can we be restored? Every one sins, no one is perfect. Romans 7 ect..

    Jesus is our advocate with the Father if we do sin. 1John 2:1. ect..

    Visiting the text.

    Hebrews 6:4-6. For it is ""IMPOSSIBLE" for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

    And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

    IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN UNTO (REPENTANCE) seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

    IF THIS VERSE IS TALKING ABOUT SALVATION THAT MEANS YOU GOT ONE CHANCE. "" FOR IT IS ( IMPOSSIBLE ) TO RENEW THEM AGAIN!! If you sin it's over!

    Read on. NOTICE VERSE 9.

    Hebrews 6:7-9. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

    But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

    9) But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and THINGS THAT ACCOMPANY SALVATION, though we thus speak.

    The Entire Msg to the Hebrews is about maturity.

    they was under persecution and was still mengaling in Judaism.

    Fruit and gifts accompany salvation through the Holyspirit, Not Judaism.

    Salvation and SANCTIFICATION is by the work of the spirit and is a GIFT "un Merritted."

    This Way is called God's election.

    Romans 9:11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, NOT OF WORKS, BUT OF HIM THAT CALLETH;)

    2 Timothy 1:12. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

    God bless
  • Michael - In Reply on Romans 5 - 2 years ago
    Hello S Spencer.

    Thank you for your thoughts.

    Yes, that is what Hebrews 6:4-6 is indeed saying. A person who becomes a true Christian and remains one for years but who later decides, of his own free will, to fall away and no longer serve God and becomes a hater of God - and remains firmly in that state for the rest of his life - will no longer be able to be saved. There is no more forgiveness for them.

    Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin WILFULLY after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

    2 Peter 2:20 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and OVERCOME, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning."

    There are 2 types of sins. The sins we make because of our imperfection - which can be forgiven - and the willful, rebellious sin that we chose to do because we no longer love God but have decided our our own free will to be against God. Notice this very carefully at

    1 John 5:16-17 "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is NOT unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin NOT unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

    John speaks of 2 sins. One is unto death and the other is not. Weaknesses due to our imperfect flesh, is not a sin unto death. But, wickedness not due to our imperfect flesh but due to a heart that has become evil by choice, is a sin unto death - the second death.

    Yes, "all unrighteousness is sin" says John. Even if I just lust momentarily at a woman, I have committed a sin. However, sin can be forgiven - unless it is willful. Willful and persistent sin with no repentance is unto death and there remains to more sacrifice for that kind of sin.

    I welcome your further thoughts.

    Good day.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Romans 5 - 2 years ago
    Hi Michael,

    I Think we should start a thread on Salvation, and track God's plan of salvation all the way back to Genesis

    and see how we received it, Then we would be able to minister to one another in a more virtuous debate. I think readers benefit more spiritually understanding salvation and obedience, sanctification, fruitfulness, Rather than worrying about losing something he might not even have!!
  • Carleton - In Reply on Romans 5 - 2 years ago
    Dear brethren, For meditation. How can a brother caught in a fault (like offense) be helped and restored while the brother can walk across the street and join a separate group of believers because his salvation is secure? In this example this brother may carry this un-dealt with offense all the way to the grave while claiming as part of his knowledge of salvation at Calvary that he once had peace with God and man by the presence of the Holy Ghost.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Romans 5 - 2 years ago
    Hi Carlton,

    Here's What being in the presence of believers want do.

    Change the inner Man.

    Galatians 5:22-24 (KJV) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

    Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

    This fruit is interior, And should be the engine that drives a Christian to serving and righteous living. This is against our nature, ( THE NATURAL MAN. )

    Fruit is virtue from being born again, connected to the TRUE VINE "EVERLASTING Life".

    A non born again professor / false Christian only can control the exterior, and

    Tries to clothe himself with righteousness.

    Try to DO the right thing, SAY the right thing, But Love for the brothern, humility, Longsuffering, ect... is absent. Void of being regenerated by the spirit. Proud of his exterior work, Nothing on the inside.

    That's what the Law couldn't do!

    Jesus came to CHANGE the HEART, And the spirit guides us with passion, not by command.

    God bless.
  • Carleton - In Reply on Romans 5 - 2 years ago
    Hello! Exactly. There is no righteousness in us , the keeping power belongs to the Lord as He is our righteousness. The Lord proves this by His peaceable Spirit in the saved man/woman.

    :)
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Romans 5 - 2 years ago
    Hi Michael.

    Here's the issue with what you stated.

    "becomes a hater of God - and remains firmly in that state for the rest of his life - will no longer be able to be saved. There is no more forgiveness for them."

    That's not in the verses we're discussing.

    If it was I would say that person was never saved, He was Enlightened, "The Word was brought to him but he never truly was converted. I believe as Jesse believes Enlightening doesn't mean the receiver accepted it.

    However I believe These were believers because of previous verses.

    Hebrews 3:1. Wherefore, ( HOLY BRETHREN,)

    partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

    And also they were on need of Milk instead of meat. ( Milk is for babies in Christ. not for sinners. Sinners need light.

    I think verses 7,8 and 9 speaks of Maturity and fruit.

    I don't believe the Issue is Salvation, In Hebrews 6. and NO you can't loose your Salvation.

    God bless.
  • Michael - In Reply on Romans 5 - 2 years ago
    Hello S Spencer.

    Thank you for your response.

    I commend you for citing verses that clearly show that Paul is talking to actual believers. They were "Holy Brethren". They had believed in Jesus Christ and were very surely baptized in water. That would make them part of the Church.

    However, very serious warnings are given to not lose faith and to not stop trusting in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Please take specific note that the Apostle Paul does not say "you" but "we". In other words, he includes "himself" in those warnings.

    Hebrews 2:1 "Therefore WE ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which WE have heard, lest at any time WE should let them slip."

    Hebrews 2:3 "How shall WE escape, if WE neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;"

    Hebrews 3:12 "Take heed, BRETHREN, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of UNBELIEF, in DEPARTING from the living God."

    Hebrews 3:14 "For WE (includes Paul) are made partakers of Christ, if WE HOLD the beginning of our confidence stedfast UNTO THE END;"

    Hebrews 12:15-17 "Looking diligently lest any man FAIL OF THE GRACE OF GOD; lest any ROOT OF BITTERNESS SPRINGING UP trouble you, and thereby many be DEFILED; Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat SOLD his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, HE WAS REJECTED: for he found NO PLACE OF REPENTANCE, though he sought it carefully with tears.

    Hebrews 6:6 "If they shall FALL AWAY (apostatize), to renew them again unto REPENTANCE; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

    2 Peter 2:20 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and OVERCOME, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning."

    Overcome means definitely. No return.


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