Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Robert D Taylor on Nehemiah 8
    In the Bible Saturday is the Sabbath. So why do we keep Sunday as a holy day? Read Exodus 20:8-11....

    If God wrote all the Ten Commandments withHis own finger, on tables of stone, how dare we change it....

    Could it be that the Roman Catholic Church changed it during the "Dark Ages" when it reined supreme?

    Something to think about, don't you agree....
  • Mishael - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Jesus healed people on the Sabbath. One reason why the Pharisees wanted to have him arrested.

    Church happens when the doors are open and people attend. Society today, some people have to work on Saturday or Sunday. They need jobs to support family. What is wrong with attending Church at mid-week for those people?

    If we become intolerant and hard on these matters, we would be as guilty as the Pharisees.

    My opinion....
  • Lauren - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    I am not now a member of any church. I spend my Sunday's in prayer all day, out in the mountains hiking, taking long runs, maybe stopping for a coffee at a local Cafe, reading my bible, and feeling joy and happiness at the people around me. I am in constant prayer on Sundays. I bless all the churches that preach the gospel, but i am not now a church-goer in the traditional sense. In this life, God has steadfastly delivered me of a religious spirit, and I feel free. I am willing to go back to church if he calls me. But so far, not. I know many will judge me on this. Perhaps I could be evangelizing more. God will call me. Blessings!
  • Robert D Taylor - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Sorry, but I do not believe your answer, answers my question. Is a person's job a reason to break one on God's Ten Commandments, written by God, not Moses, on tables of stone? In Exodus 20:8-11, God specially states that the Sabbath (Saturday to us) is His Holy Day, "The Sabbath is My Holy Day"....
  • Michael - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

    (Christians are not under the Old Covenant or Testament but under the New Covenant or Testament.)

    Luke 22:20 "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you."

    (Jesus set up or inaugurated the New Covenant or Testament with his shed blood.)

    Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

    (The Apostle Paul, in all his letters, never instructed the first-century Church to keep the Sabbath - not once. In fact, he said that no man can judge another concerning the sabbath day, nor meat (food) or holydays such as the Day of Atonement in which sacrifices were commanded to be offered by God. Many of the laws of the Old Covenant or Testament are not kept by the first-century Church - such as circumcision, the Festival of Booths, the law requiring men to go up to Jerusalem three times a year, purification laws (washing) for when a person touches a dead body, etc.)
  • Brother Dan - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Living under the new covenant today does not take away from God's 10 commandments. Many people today quote and misquote apostle Paul's writings. This simple truth is that the apostle Paul does not have the authority to cancel any of God's commandments.

    Jesus respected his Father and his commandments and Jesus did not cancel any of the 10 commandments. Please read and try to understand the following scriptures spoken directly by Jesus Christ while he was on this earth.

    John 14:15

    "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

    John 14:21

    "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

    John 15:10

    "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."

    Matthew 5:17

    "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

    Matthew 5:18

    "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

    Paul and the other disciples honored and followed the 10 commandments including the 4th commandment. See apostle John's scripture below:

    1 John 2:3

    "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."

    1 John 5:2

    "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments."

    1 John 5:3

    "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

    2 John 1:6

    "And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it."

    Please read the scriptures and pray for understanding.

    God bless
  • Michael - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Hello Dan. Thank you for your response.

    Jesus himself was born under the Mosaic Law and, therefore, was required to keep the Mosaic Law. That is why he was circumcised on the eight day as per the Mosaic Law. Notice that in the following verse. Jesus was made (or born) under the law - the Mosaic Law.

    Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"

    As long as that Mosaic Law was in force, the Mosaic Law (the so-called Old Testament) was in force. Jesus therefore kept his Father's commandments of that Mosaic Law. But, the Holy Scriptures has said that God would set up a New Covenant that would not be like the Old Covenant. Notice...

    Jeremiah 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:" "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:"

    It was not the Apostle Paul who changed God's Law to his people - it was God himself as per Jeremiah 31:31. However, the Apostle Paul, writing under inspiration of God, gave the first-century Church the new directives or laws governing that New Covenant. He never instructed the Christian Churches of the first-century to keep the Mosaic Law such as circumcision or the sabbaths. In fact, he instructed them the complete opposite. Notice again...

    Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

    You cannot judge a Christian for not keeping the sabbath days - as per the New Covenant that has been set up between God and his present-day people - the Church of God.

    I welcome your further thoughts, Dan. Good day.
  • Chris - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Thank you Michael for that clear & concise response. If the foundations of biblical teaching or doctrine are not properly laid, the building cracks will develop & bring destruction. I find that many Christians, whether because of Church teaching or from their own surmisings, look at Scriptures such as John 14:15 & immediately apply the obedience to the Law for all people, that which was given only to Israel.

    To do so, several things have to be overlooked or rejected: to whom was God speaking in the OT & to whom was Jesus speaking prior to His crucifixion? Only to Israel, none else. Gentiles weren't even in the picture pertaining to the Law & never have been. What was the reason for giving the Law? God's code of conduct (spiritual, moral & social) for His people, His Mark of separation from the heathen - Leviticus 26:46, (as also with circumcision: Genesis 17:10), & to demonstrate to Israel a godly standard that as sinners they could never fully obey ( Galatians 3:21-26).

    But then we get verses such as Matthew 5:17-19 which are often used to support the eternal nature & applicability of the Law to all people. To those under the Law, indeed, the Law is current & will be used against them. To those who have escaped the curse of the Law & have found new life in Christ, have learned that Christ has indeed fulfilled all the Law, forever abrogating it & thru His Death ushered in a new & better Covenant ( Hebrews 8:6-13).

    What then do we do with Scriptures (e.g. 1 John 5:2,3) that say we must obey God's commandments? Are John & others pointing the believer back to the letter of the Law that kills or rather to the Spirit Who gives life ( 2 Corinthians 3:6)? It is the Spirit's Law in our hearts that frees us from the Law of sin & death ( Romans 8:2). To give consent to both, that which is opposed to each other, weakens (even negates) the power of the New Covenant through Christ's Blood & the keeping of the Sabbath ever stands as a centrepiece to cause both error & division.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    My brothers Chris and Dan,

    Don't let me get in between your conversation which is great. Which we all do to help one another. Just to put my feelings about the couple things being discussed about the Sabbath day and the law.

    I wanted to write this a while back as now is my time to post this. We who follow Christ should strive to keep every day Holy not just one day of the week.

    About the law I see it as the Ten Commandments are a good guide for us to follow. As none of them are grievous to follow and are all good. Even going through the 613 Mitzvot laws numerous times most are good moral things to follow. Of coarse we are past trying to follow every single one as we are under the New Covenant and Jesus Christ came for us. Things like sacrificing animals, dietary laws(which some may still like to follow), stoning people, etc.

    As stated by someone else when Jesus Christ was asked "the greatest commandment". Him giving the two commandments to hang all the law and the prophets. Surrounding true love for God and one another. If we follow true love with a pure heart this truly will guide us down the straight and narrow path to truly want to do what pleases God and others around us. Producing good fruit in the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 13.

    Just a couple scriptures I like about the law thing. Romans 3:31, 1 Timothy 8-10.

    God Bless you my brothers and sisters in Christ. Have a wonderful day!
  • Michael - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Christians are no longer under the Old Covenant Laws (the 10 commandments followed by approximately another 600 laws). Jeremiah prophesied:

    Jeremiah 31:31, 32 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

    You will notice that the New Covenant would NOT be like the Old Covenant. The New Covenant was inaugurated by the shed blood of Christ as per:

    Luke 22:20 "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you."

    Under this New Covenant, the Laws being stipulated namely in Romans to Revelation, we are never commanded to keep the Sabbath Day holy. In fact, we are commanded the opposite.

    Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

    Before the Mosaic Law was given at the time of the exodus from Egypt, the Bible never says that the faithful kept the Sabbath Day - whether that be Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. Notice when the Sabbath was given and to whom:

    Nehemiah 9:13, 14 "Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments: And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

    Ezekiel 20:10-12 Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness. And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them...

    The word "them" is referring to ancient Israel.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Hi Michael,

    I agree with you on not having to keep the "7th day Sabbath". Another verse I came across tonight to back that is Galatians 4:9-11. I don't know if I understand correctly your statement of "we are commanded the opposite". As I stated, my feeling, that to follow Christ is to be Holy as He is Holy as in 1 Peter 1:14-17, Hebrews 12:14. To strive to keep every day Holy retaining the Lord in us. That following love from a pure heart is what makes God our Father and Christ happy 1 Peter 1:22-23.

    To the Ten Commandments. Like I stated I believe they are good and are throughout the NT, as to follow them, though all spread out. Here is one actually discerning it as a commandment of the OT Ephesians 6:1-2. Here are the rest in different places. Romans 1:28-32, Galatians 5:19-21, 2 Timothy 3:1-5, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Colossians 3:1-10. As you are able to go through all those epistles of the NT and see it notes the same things the Ten Commandments tells to us to stay away from. Even more as some are in the Mitzvot laws. As stated there are a lot that are void though just letting the Spirit guide you, you can see the ones that are moral and righteous.

    Love from a pure heart is above all and shall never fail Colossians 3:12-17. Walking in the Spirit producing good fruit for the Lord. To keep us from the temptations and lusts of the flesh which leads to sin. Which no one is perfect and may slip and fall. To be vigilant and confess our sins in prayer they shall be forgiven. Though we are to strive to stay away(repent) from sin in our walk with the Lord to be Holy in this temple He has Blessed us with.

    Just to make clear if anyone may perceive I'm stating that "good works" is what saves us. That is not true and not what I'm stating. Though we are called by God through Christ to good works Ephesians 2:10. Showing our faith and newness of life in the Lord. All glory to our Father and Jesus Christ. Amen.

    God Bless you Michael.
  • Michael - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Hello Richard.

    Thank you for your good words.

    Many of the commandments found in the Old Covenant are indeed repeated in the New Covenant. However, we really are obeying only the New Covenant - not the Old Covenant. You cannot have 2 covenants in force at the same time since they would contradict one another. Just as you cannot have 2 rental leases in force at the same time. The new lease cancels the old lease. Please read Hebrews 8:7-13.

    I am not under the 10 commandments given to ancient Israel and inaugurated by a ceremony between God and Israel. Please read Exodus 24:3-8.

    I find 9 of the 10 commandments (Old Covenant) repeated in the New Covenant. So I obey the 9 commandments found in the New Covenant. I do not find the 4th commandment repeated in the New Covenant and thus I do not follow it since I am under the New Covenant and never does the New Covenant instruct the Church of God to keep the sabbath.

    The Apostles being directed by God's Holy Spirit never instructed the Church in the Epistles from Romans to Revelation to keep the sabbath holy. Therefore, I do not keep it since it is not instructed to me to do so.

    I hope that clarifies matter and invite your further comments.

    Good day.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Thank you for your reply Michael,

    I agree with you that we have the New Covenant now. Surrounding Jesus Christ our Lord and receiving the Holy Spirit of promise Ephesians 1:7-14. It seems we agree on everything. I read the book of Hebrews regularly. As stated that I just think the Ten Commandments are "good". Just a beginning. Not that we are under the law of the Old Covenant. As I believe brother Chris stated in a post that our righteousness is to exceed them who followed the law Matthew 5:20. Like in the statement I made as to where I strive to keep every day Holy not just one a week. So he who thinks the Sabbath should be on a Saturday really doesn't matter. Jesus stating that even being angry with thy brother is in danger or who just looks on a woman to lust after her hath already committed adultery Matthew 5:21-22, Matthew 5:27-28.

    When Jesus Christ gave the two greatest commandments to hang all the law and the prophets. He was quoting Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18. Which also being stated by another were not of the Ten Commandments. Pointing to exceed the old law with the new law which is on our hearts and exceedingly vast.

    We having been Blessed to receive the Holy Ghost from above whom is our teacher now. Having the Spirit of Christ in us to help us walk as He did, and follow after Him, as He is the only way to the Father. Living for the Will of our Father in Heaven doing what pleases Him. Producing good fruit in the Spirit. John 8:29.

    If I had to choose which Testament is more important I would most definitely choose the NT. Though the OT has many, many, things that are still very important. Also things that are really of no avail to us. Just letting the Spirit guide us to the righteous and important things in the OT. Even with the Apocrypha books and the Book of Enoch. As they have things in them that connect directly to the teachings in the Holy Bible. Let the Spirit guide us to truth. Micah 6:8.

    God Bless you Michael
  • Michael - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Hello Richard,

    Thank you for your comments. I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

    Indeed, I certainly agree with you that the Old Testament books are still important for Christians. Indeed, the Apostle Paul said that all scripture is beneficial. ( 2 Timothy 3:16) He also stated at Romans 15:4 that those things were written to teach us. Also, at 1 Corinthians 10:6 and 1 Corinthians 10:11, he says that those things were examples to us to teach us and warn us.

    However, as far as the terms of a Testament or Covenant concerning the laws that we must obey, Christians should obey only the New Testament laws which are binding on a Christian. You cannot have 2 rental leases in force at the same time. The new rental lease makes the old one obsolete. The New Testament makes the Old Testament obsolete.

    Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

    Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the (Mosaic) law."

    Luke 16:16 "The (Mosaic) law and the prophets were until John..."

    Christians are not commanded in the New Testament to keep the Saturday sabbath and neither to keep a dominical sabbath (Sunday). There is no set day to keep. The only thing that is commanded to be kept is meeting together - that can be anytime during the week.

    Hebrews 10:24, 25 "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

    The Apostle Paul counsels against keeping any "day":

    Galatians 4:10 "Ye observe (sabbath) days, and (lunar) months, and (festivals) times, and (sabbatical) years."

    Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

    I welcome your further comments.

    Good day, Richard.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    I also enjoy reading your full replies brother Michael,

    It seems we see eye to eye. Like you stated that we are not commanded to keep a "Saturday", or certain day, Sabbath in the New Testament. As I stated Galatians 4:9-11 in my first reply to you in this thread. Which you just broke down with details to make it more understandable for those who may have not understood that verse.

    Thank you very much for your time and posts as I very much enjoy conversing with other brothers & sisters in Christ. I look forward to seeing your posts here to help others in their walk with Christ.

    God Bless and peace be with you brother.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Oops. 1 Timothy 1:8-10.
  • Sammy - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Richard you need more wool on those suits !
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Hi Sammy,

    I'm sorry but I don't understand your statement. Could you be more clear with me what you meant? Thank you.

    God Bless.
  • Brother Dan - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Dear Brother Michael,

    I will agree that many of the old ceremonial laws, including animal sacrifices, and other old customs that were previously required have been eliminated because they are no longer required in order to receive God's forgiveness, as it was during the old testament days before Christ.

    Christ became the sacrificial lamb. God gave us the ultimate gift and total sacrifice of his Son Jesus Christ. And now, through Christ we can be forgiven and saved.

    You quoted Paul in Colossians 2:16

    "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

    True no man can judge another. The judging will be performed by Christ. But this scripture you quoted above does not eliminate the need to follow God's 4th commandment! This scripture simply states they we should not judge one another. You conveniently pulled out the word Sabbath and then you interpret it to mean we can eliminate the need to follow the 4th commandment! I read and understand this scripture in a different way than you. To me, it means if a brother or sister does not keep the Sabbath we are not to judge them.....Christ will judge.

    Romans 14:10

    "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."

    We will all eventually be judged by Christ. I will continue to believe and strive to follow God's 10 Commandments, including the 4th Commandement: Keep Holy the Sabbath. God's 10 commandments will always exist, until heaven and earth pass.....this is from the mouth of Jesus Christ.

    Matthew 5:18

    "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

    You have quoted the apostle Paul in scripture regarding the Sabbath, and I am quoting Jesus. If there is a conflict between them I will respectfully defer to Jesus.

    God Bless
  • Michael - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Hello Dan. Thank you for your comments.

    A person cannot judge another man for not keeping the Sabbath in the Christian Church under the New Covenant. Under the Old Covenant, a person was required to judge such a person and stone them to death.

    However, in the New Covenant given to the Christian Church, the Elders of a Church are indeed required to judge a man who is sinning such as by committing fornication.

    At 1 Corinthians 5:1-13, there is a case of a man who is living in a state of sexual immorality. The Apostle Paul tells the Elders of that Church to judge and disfellowship that individual. Notice:

    1 Corinthians 5: 12, 13 "For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

    That unrepentant, sinful person had to be judged and be thrown out of the Church. Yes, those who break the serious laws of the New Covenant, such as fornication - a serious sin - were judged and expelled.

    However, no Christian could be judged for not keeping the Sabbath since the Sabbath was only given to Israel in the Old Covenant. The Apostle Paul and the other Apostles never commanded the Church to keep the Sabbath. If the Sabbath was that important, why would he not do so? Colossians 2:14-16 explains why. I invite you to read it.

    As for Matthew 5:18, I would suggest you also read the other portion of that statement recorded at Luke 16:16:

    Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were UNTIL John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."

    The Old Covenant was until John. Then, Jesus at his death with his blood, instituted the New Covenant or New Testament - laws found in the books of Romans to Revelation to the Christian Church - the so-called New Testament.

    I would also invite you to read Jeremiah 31:31-33 and Luke 22:20.
  • Lauren - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Thank you Michael!
  • Robert D Taylor - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Thank you Brother Dan....

    Ask any prelate (employee: priest, bishop, cardnal, and even pope, and they will tell you that they changed the holiness of the Sabbath Day, in fact they are quite proud of it....

    See Daniel 7:25 "He shall speak pompous words against the Mostg High . Shall persecute the saints of the Most High.

    And shalol intend to change times and laws."

    I ask you which of God's Ten Commandments has to do with time? Only the Fourth Commandment, which starts out with "Remember", which is really the only one of the Ten that man wants to forget. and do away with. Also, consider that man can not really change or do away with any of God's Ten Commandments, they cab only "Think" to do so....

    God os not caught "flat footed here" He knew that a power would try this in thefuture....
  • Brother Dan - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Brother Chris,

    You are ignoring tons of scripture regarding God's Commandments.....

    I will comment on a few of your comments.

    You ask - What then do we do with Scriptures (e.g. 1 John 5:2,3) that say we must obey God's commandments? That is a good question! If we believe what you are saying, then we need to ignore this scripture. In addition, there is a multitude of scripture including scripture from Jesus that asks us to follow God's commandments, are we to ignore all of this scripture too?

    Yes, we must obey God's commandments. When we fail and sin, which all will, we can now be forgiven though Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ's death does NOT cancel God's commandments. God's commandments guide us and provides moral direction. Yes, apostle John and others followed Gods commandments and based on their scripture we should be doing the same.

    You ask - Are John & others pointing the believer back to the letter of the Law that kills or rather to the Spirit Who gives life ( 2 Corinthians 3:6)? Yes, John and others are pointing back to the Law/10 Commandments. There is no easy way to get to heaven. If we ignore the commandments and live in sin....we perish!

    You quote this scripture: It is the Spirit's Law in our hearts that frees us from the Law of sin & death ( Romans 8:2). This scripture from Paul sounds great but it does NOT provide us with a free ticket to sin. The scripture is about the Spirts Law - is the Holy Spirit residing in our heart that helps us to avoid sin.

    You state: To give consent to both, that which is opposed to each other, weakens (even negates) the power of the New Covenant through Christ's Blood & the keeping of the Sabbath ever stands as a centrepiece to cause both error & division.

    Ok, so we can believe in the new modern popular doctrine pointing to minimizing or eliminating the need to observe God's commandments or we can be (old fashioned) and believe in the bible and the 10 Commandments. I choose the latter.

    God Bless
  • Chris - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Brother Dan, rather than go through all those points again, making this thread repetitious, Romans 8:1-4 shows us where the wonder of the New Covenant lies. And this "isn't a free ticket to sin" as you suggest. And I agree with you, "The scripture is about the Spirits Law - is the Holy Spirit residing in our heart that helps us to avoid sin."

    In verse 2, we have a comparison: the Law given by God's Spirit or the Law given at Sinai that revealed sin & brought death. And Paul says that this New Law has freed him from the Old. So the question must be asked, "what is this new Law & how can it replace the old?" You've said that it "helps us to avoid sin". That's certainly the case...and more. The Holy Spirit Who has come to indwell us has only done so as a result of the New Covenant. No Covenant - No indwelling. The Spirit does much in a believer's life: apart from His baptism into God's family & sealing us to never be lost, He teaches us the holy requirements of our Father & convicts us when we err from the Truth & may need to discipline us when we're stubborn.

    So does the Spirit's Law differ much from the Decalogue? Jesus gave us a hint in Matthew chapter 5. He spoke to His disciples of the "righteousness of the Scribes & Pharisees". And we know how 'righteous' they were: ensuring every Law was obeyed & their addition of the 'extras' making the Law burdensome to all. But with all that, the commandment was "Thou shalt not kill & Thou shalt not commit adultery". And the religious leaders were careful with that & ensured that all complied or else be punished. Jesus then spoke of the evil & intent that lay in the heart & that's where the commandments were broken.

    Now to those with God's Spirit, we can no longer appeal to the Law of Sin & Death, for that will continue to enslave us & give us our due punishment. But through the Spirit, He gives to our hearts & minds the fullness of God's Laws which far surpass the Old. How can we then make any appeal to the Old?
  • Michael - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Hello Dan.

    I would suggest that the "commandments" referred to in 1 John 5:2, 3 are not the 10 commandments nor the Mosaic Law commandments. If that were so, then Christians would be obligated to circumcise their children as per God's commandment at Leviticus 12:3. The New Testament said that circumcision is not required at Acts 15. Yet, that was a commandment of God. If we are to obey all God's commandments, then why do we not go up to Jerusalem three times a year as was commanded by God's commandment at Deuteronomy 16:16. Why do we not stone adulterers and adulteresses as commanded by God at Leviticus 20:10. That was his commandment.

    I would suggest that the "commandments" of God referred to at 1 John 5:2, 3 are the New Covenant commandments that were given to the Church through the Apostles via revelations such as to the Apostle Paul and inspiration as others wrote the New Testament - Romans to Revelation. In those instructions, we are never commanded to keep the Sabbath Day holy nor to keep the kosher laws. In fact, we are commanded the opposite:

    Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

    Therefore, Christians do not obey the Old Covenant Mosaic Law given to ancient Israel but only to the New Covenant Laws given to the Church via the Apostles through the epistles of Romans to Revelation. Jeremiah had prophesied such at:

    Jeremiah 31:31, 32 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: NOT according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
  • Brother Dan - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Brother Michael,

    You suggest that the commandments referred to in 1 John 5:2,3 are not the 10 commandments, but some other new commandments of some sort dreamed up by Paul and the apostles.

    Jesus states the following:

    John 14:15

    "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

    Jesus speaks the words directly from his Father:

    John 12:49

    "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak."

    I read and understand clearly that the commandments referred to in the bible by Jesus and his apostles are the 10 Commandments. To believe otherwise is a stretch of imagination, and not backed up by scripture.

    God Bless
  • Michael - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Hello Dan.

    Thanks for your comments.

    The 10 commandments were the first of over 600 commandments given to the nation of Israel. It was inaugurated by a ceremony where the law was read, blood sacrifices were offered, and the people of Israel agreed to obey the whole law. See Exodus 24:3-8. This clearly was a covenant or contract between Israel and God via the mediator Moses.

    The New Covenant was inaugurated by the mediator Jesus Christ by his shed blood and is between God and the Church.

    See Luke 22:20.

    Jeremiah 31:31-33 tells us that God would make a New Covenant. You suggest that the expression "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts" is referring to the Mosaic laws given to the nation of Israel. However, that can't be correct, since verse 32 clearly says that the New Covenant would not be "according to the covenant I made with their fathers".

    If you sign a new lease with your landlord, the old lease becomes obsolete. You can't have 2 leases in force at the same time. They would contradict each other. You can't also have 2 Covenants in force since they too would contradict one another. One says circumcise your children (Mosaic Law) and one says it is not necessary to circumcise your children (New Covenant - see Acts 15.) See Hebrews 8:13.

    The Bible differentiates between the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ. The Law of Moses is the Old Covenant and the Law of Christ is the New Covenant - the Laws found in Romans to Revelation.

    1 Corinthians 9:21 speaks about the law to Christ (the New Covenant laws of Romans to Revelation).

    Galatians 6:2 also refers to the law of Christ. The law of Christ is different from the law of Moses.

    God himself gave these new laws of the New Covenant to the Apostle Paul and the other Apostles to transmit to the Church in the epistles. These are the commandments that the Apostle John is referring to in 1 John 5:2, 3.

    The Apostles never commanded the Church to obey the sabbath in all the epistles.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Brother Dan, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk OLD WINE straightway desireth NEW (wine): for he saith, THE OLD IS BETTER.

    John 2:1 And THE THIRD DAY (represents Christ resurrection) there was a MARRIAGE IN CANA OF GALILEE.....(represents New Jerusalem)

    John 2:2 And BOTH Jesus was called, and his disciples, TO THE MARRIAGE.

    John 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, THEY HAVE NO WINE.

    John 2:9 .... and the governor (God the Spirit) of the feast called (CHRIST) the bridegroom,

    John 2:10 And saith unto him....but thou has kept the good wine until NOW.

    The old (wine: laws written in tablets of natural stone) were replaced by new (wine) laws written in the heart.

    Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

    Matthew 22:38 This is the first and GREATEST COMMANDMENT.

    Matthew 22:39 And the SECOND is like unto it, thou shall LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.

    Matthew 22:40 ON these TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG all the law and prophets.

    Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart will I GIVE you, and a new spirit will I put in you....

    Ezekie 36:27 ....and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes....
  • Brother Dan - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Brother Earl,

    You list the following scripture:

    Matthew 22:38 This is the first and GREATEST COMMANDMENT.

    Matthew 22:39 And the SECOND is like unto it, thou shall LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.

    Matthew 22:40 ON these TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG all the law and prophets.

    You listed this scripture addressing the 1st and 2nd Commandments, so I would think that you do believe in these 2 Commandments.

    Jesus did say that these 2 commandments are the greatest of the 10. Also, Jesus didn't say the remaining 8 commandments are meaningless, and don't count. So if you believe in the first 2 commandments it is also very logical to also believe in the other 8 commandments. Yet, if I'm correct it sounds to me that you do not believe in the 4th commandment which relates to honoring the Sabbath.

    The way I see it ....we can't pick and choose which of Gods commandments that we like. The bible is not a menu that lets us choose what we want so that we can live our lives in the easiest and least disruptive way. Following the bible and God's laws may be tough for us to do in this day and age. How many of us would rather be at a ball game, or golfing on Saturday (the Sabbath) probably many of us could be doing a lot of things we would like to do....rather than observing the Sabbath. I understand...but it doesn't make it right!

    God Bless
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Brother dan, may christ in us grace us with his wisdom and his understanding.

    1 corinthians 15:46 howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

    the old testament was a shadow (natural). the new testament is the true (spirit).

    the sabbath was a law that natural israel was required to keep. they couldn't; natural flesh cannot keep god's laws. since god is spirit; therefore, his laws are spirit. the new came so we can keep god's laws. we were crucified on christ cross with him. the life we now live we live by christ in us. christ is without sin. truth sets us free. the old testament sabbath was a day or rest. we being dead to the natural (flesh) can live every moment in christ (in rest, the true sabbath); he is doing all things for us. we can't keep the two commandments jesus gave us; he can. all of us have the throne of god and the cross of christ in us. if you are on the throne then you have christ back on the cross; but, if you are on the cross (dead), then christ is on the throne.

    i believe in keeping the sabbath; but not the old.

    ezekiel 36:27 ...and cause you to walk in my statutes...

    psalms 92:4 for thou, lord, hath made me glad through thy work: i will triumph in the works of thy hands.

    psalms 92:5 o lord, how great are thy works! and thy thoughts are very deep.

    psalms 92:6 a brutish (beast) man knoweth not; nor a fool understand this.

    1 corinthians 15:32 ....i have fought with the beasts at ephesus .....
  • Adam - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Dear Brother Dan,

    You might like to know that the 2 greatest commandments summarizing the law aren't in the 10 commandments. These are separate. For instance the 1st of the ten commandments is to have no other Gods before Him, and 2nd one is to not make any graven images. The 10 commandments don't necesarily summarize all the commandments and laws, as there were hundreds, especially for Israelites in the form of moral law, civil, and cereminial. Matthew 22:36-40. Given the complexity, I think the Pharisee didn't expect Jesus to actually answer that question, but he did beautifully: love God and love others. This is basically the meaning and purpose of life which so many people search endlessly for in the wrong places. Just because Jesus summarized everything doesn't mean the details don't matter though. Obviously we are called to obey and follow God's commandments. Those who claim Christians shouldn't try or make any effort to because you 'can't' I think is a grave mistake and not what Jesus said: John 14:15

    God bless.
  • Brother Dan - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Dear Brother Adam,

    Thank you for pointing out that Jesus summarized the commandments when questioned down to two of the most important things that we should do. Love God, and love others. So simple! I agree, and if we can be consistent in that, we will basically be living a good Christian life according to Jesus.

    God bless
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Brother Earl,

    Now I believe that is some very good insight on those verses!!!

    but I think Brother Dan missed it.

    And there may be a lot more going on at that marriage hidden in the text.

    Thanks.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Brother S Spencer, Thank you. You are right; a whole book could be written on the truths in that MARRIAGE.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Earl..

    Yes I believe you're right.

    Hosea 12:10. I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.
  • Brother Dan - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Brother Earl,

    Thanks for sharing the wonderful scripture, it is better than sweet music to my ears!

    Yes, you refer to the Law written in our hearts, it is the same Law that was written on the stone tablets. The law that will last until heaven and earth pass.

    Matthew 5:18

    "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

    If we truly love Jesus we will keep his commandments.

    John 14:15

    "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

    Jesus also reminds us:

    Matthew 7:14

    "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

    God bless
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    DAN.

    You may have misunderstood Earls reply,

    by your quote, and if your arguments stand on what you thought Earl said, you should examine the text.

    Now quoting you...

    ""Thanks for sharing the wonderful scripture, it is better than sweet music to my ears!

    Yes, you refer to ( THE LAW WRITTEN IN OUR HEARTS, IT IS THE SAME LAW THAT WAS WRITTEN ON THE STONE TABLETS.) The law that will last until heaven and earth pass.""

    Now here is where the text is drawn from..

    2 Corinthians 3:3 (KJV) Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN "NOT" WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; "NOT" IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.

    If you read further on you will see what MINISTRY was written in stone.

    2 Corinthians 3:7 (KJV) But if the MINISTRATION OF DEATH, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVEN IN STONES, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

    My friend it was the ministration of condemnation!!

    That same argument you're holding too is what the apostle fought against til death.

    It's sad to see you fight against the truth.

    I pray you reconsider all the scripture these brothers have given you.

    God bless you.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Hi dan.

    we will agree to disagree on that topic.

    i'm just trying to seek truth and stand for it.

    we should try to help one another to stay on track, i just thought you should take another look at that scripture.

    i hope you would do the same for me.

    christianity is not trying to win an argument.

    it's about christ and his work on the cross.

    and we are to shine light ""on him"" he's in the mist of the candle sticks. those lights should be fueled by oil, "holyspirit" this parallels with 2 cor. 3:3. fleshly tables of the heart,

    and

    hebrews 8:9-10. not according to the covenant that i made with their fathers in the day when i took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and i regarded them not, saith the lord.

    for this is the covenant that i will make with the house of israel after those days, saith the lord;

    i will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and i will be to them a god, and they shall be to me a people:

    the first covenant they were commanded to do.

    "and they couldn't"

    the second covenant they were commanded to be!! and they could through the power of the holyspirit. the laws of god written on their heart.

    the first covenant showed the flesh was weak.

    the second covenant shows it was victorious when christ was raised from the dead.

    we're baptized into his death.

    and his righteousness is imputed on to us. "that's positional sanctification, and it's a gift.

    our practical sanctification is in our walk. the spirit guides us to walk as he walked.

    again we're not under command to do,

    we're under command to be! ( be holy because i am holy ).

    the law is holy "but we're not", and keeping it couldn't make us perfect. it never changed the inner man.

    the new covenant did. righteousness is in the heart, and so is sin. the old covenant was an outwardly act without a repentant heart.

    god bless.
  • Brother Dan - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Brother S Spencer,

    I didn't misunderstand Brother Earls reply.

    So the way I read your reply for Brother Earl - to me; it is that YOUR interpretation of scripture can be the only correct one, and anyone else's interpretation of scripture that doesn't agree with you is incorrect, including mine.

    There is tons of scripture showing the need for christians to observe God's 10 commandments, and I've listed many in this thread.

    In my mind the main scripture that solidifies this is Jesus speaking below:

    John 14:15

    "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

    This scripture is so simple to understand. Do you agree with Jesus? If you do, then his commandments stand, until the end of time, as he stated again here in scripture:

    Matthew 5:18

    "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

    The heaven and earth has not passed....yet.

    God Bless
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Brother Dan, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto to you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot and one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    Your comment was: the heaven and the earth has not passed ...yet

    WHY HASN'T IT PASSED; natural eyes see what has always existed. When the new covenant CAME the old disappeared; BUT, you didn't naturally see it happen. You know because the WORD tells us.

    Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and first earth passed away....

    When Christ died and was resurrected by SPIRIT all things became NEW.

    2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be IN CHRIST; he is a new creature (CREATION); old things have PASSED AWAY; behold all things have become NEW.

    Psalms 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to COME: and the people that shall BE CREATED shall PRAISE THE LORD.

    Psalms 102:26 They shall perish, but thou (the word) shall endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture thou (the word) shall change them. and THEY SHALL BE CHANGED.


Viewing page: 1 of 2

  Next Discussion Page >

1   2  

 


This comment thread is locked. Please enter a new comment below to start a new comment thread.

Note: Comment threads older than a month are automatically locked.
 

Do you have a Bible comment or question?


Please view the Comment Guidelines before posting...


2000 characters remain...