Hi ,to any one out there who for some reason might think that people who have not entered into a covenant relationship with God ,either by baptism for Christians or circumcision for Jews ,will either go to heaven or be ressurected ,please read 2nd Samuel ch12 v15-23 .
That is a commonly used verse where we see a child going to heaven, having not reaching the age of accountability yet, what ever that be. it shows the tender mercy on the little ones and those who don't have the ability to grasp the need of a savior and the plan of Redemption. whether a child or some mental Incapabilities.
I agree with your comment. I don't believe 2 Samuel 12 refutes anything about God allowing children to go to heaven. Some children die and God is a fair judge whether they were old enough to be accountable, or healthy enough, or have enough opportunity. Those who live and die in remote native islands like north sentinel island who never read a Bible or hear about Jesus simply are going to be judged fairly by God.
Hi S Spencer ,i believe you are in error , David fasted and prayed to God for his son because he wanted his son to live long enough to enter into a covenant relationship with God by being circumcised on the 8th day . The baby boy died before he was old enough to be circumcised and David says : i shall go to him (in the grave) but he shall not return to me (be ressurected ) . If you are able ,please explain to me why you believe this baby went to heaven ,thankyou in anticipation .
Here's a verse where it's often used as the maximum age of accountability.
Numbers 32:11. Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me:
Numbers 14:31-35. But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised.
But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness.
And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness.
After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.
I the LORD have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die.
I believe all children that die before the age of accountability goes to Heaven. how can a child turn from something he is not fully aware of? Or how can he turn to someone he his not fully aware of?
Isn't it you who often says "God loves you and wants you with him"? What about little children?
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. """For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:""" ( and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.)
S Spenser ,hi ,if you read my original question you will see that it has nothing to do with any age of accountability but it is about wether or not some one has entered into a covenant relationship with God ,i have family and friends with all kinds of disabilities and health restrictions ,my husband and myself included ,many of them are total atheists , the question isnt about that .
Hi S Spencer ,no worries ,i hope i didnt hurt your feelings ,im a bit over sensitive some times ,please forgive me and dont take my little tantrum to heart ,you are a kind soul .
Hi S Spenser ,i am thankyou ,just got some nice cd's in the post (rachmaninoff) ,so today i shall be doing a workout to piano music ,i hate excercising but i have to or i will seize up completely ! I hope you are feeling strong in the Lord and bright and breezy ! Its chilly here today (north east england ) but i guess my excercises will warm me up ! Let the love of God flow through you into the world .
Dear S Spencer ,no worries ,you have not offended me i promise ,i have to admit i am a bit over sensetive about being misunderstood ,i try ,though i dont always succeed ,to only say what i mean and mean what i say and be succinct so if i think ive been misunderstood it irks me and im prone to over react ,im sorry if i hurt your feelings in any way , i believe its important to be clear about what im saying especially if im talking about any thing to do with the Truth and especially as we get a lot of Babes in Christ on this site , i hope we two are ok now ,God bless you.
My reply was bringing attention that verse 23 ( But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.) "That verse is a commonly used verse where we see a child going to heaven, having not reaching the age of accountability yet". And yes it is used that way.
In verse 23 King David is answering his servant when the child was sick he fast and wept but when the child died he ate bread "no more mourning" If he was concerned about the child not living long enough to be circumcised that would have brought on more mourning and weeping as he did for Absalom after his death.
2 Samuel 12:21-22. Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.
And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
Chapter 11:27 we see King David took Bathsheba as his wife and she bore him a child, Chapter 12:14-16 you see the Lord has struck the child with sickness and King David went and lay upon the earth and fasted.
On the seventh day the child died, This don't say that the child was 7 days old, Its how long David fasted.
Scripture don't give us the age of the child. We don't know how much time past between VS 11:27 the child birth, and vs 12:18 when it died.
Besides none of that matters. Circumcision was never for salvation, the book of Galatians is clear on that.
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. and Romans. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Circumcision meant something to the Israelites in Davids time ,which is what and when i was talking about .It meant something to David and Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and many others .
Sacha, May CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
In the discussion with S Spencer about David's infant son. If he had died on the nineth day after being circumcised on the eight day. What would have made his death have a different outcome. Circumcision was only a outward sign of being an Israelite. He went to the grave awaiting resurrection as David also knew he would. Only the children of Christ resurrection will never see death or the grave.
That is a commonly used verse where we see a child going to heaven, having not reaching the age of accountability yet, what ever that be. it shows the tender mercy on the little ones and those who don't have the ability to grasp the need of a savior and the plan of Redemption. whether a child or some mental Incapabilities.
Thank you.
I agree, point intended.
Here's a verse where it's often used as the maximum age of accountability.
Numbers 32:11. Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me:
Numbers 14:31-35. But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised.
But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness.
And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness.
After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.
I the LORD have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die.
God bless you
Thank you
I believe all children that die before the age of accountability goes to Heaven. how can a child turn from something he is not fully aware of? Or how can he turn to someone he his not fully aware of?
Isn't it you who often says "God loves you and wants you with him"? What about little children?
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. """For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:""" ( and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.)
What would you require of a child?!!
What about those suffering autism ?
Is God the God of mercy?
Yes he is.
Perhaps someone else would like to touch on this.
God bless, Sacha
I didn't mean any harm, I was just saying some use that verse as comfort for a lost little one.
We may have had a misunderstanding.
Charge that to my head not my heart.
God bless you.
I hope you're having a wonderful day.
God bless you.
My reply was bringing attention that verse 23 ( But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.) "That verse is a commonly used verse where we see a child going to heaven, having not reaching the age of accountability yet". And yes it is used that way.
In verse 23 King David is answering his servant when the child was sick he fast and wept but when the child died he ate bread "no more mourning" If he was concerned about the child not living long enough to be circumcised that would have brought on more mourning and weeping as he did for Absalom after his death.
2 Samuel 12:21-22. Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.
And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
Chapter 11:27 we see King David took Bathsheba as his wife and she bore him a child, Chapter 12:14-16 you see the Lord has struck the child with sickness and King David went and lay upon the earth and fasted.
On the seventh day the child died, This don't say that the child was 7 days old, Its how long David fasted.
Scripture don't give us the age of the child. We don't know how much time past between VS 11:27 the child birth, and vs 12:18 when it died.
Besides none of that matters. Circumcision was never for salvation, the book of Galatians is clear on that.
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. and Romans. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
In the discussion with S Spencer about David's infant son. If he had died on the nineth day after being circumcised on the eight day. What would have made his death have a different outcome. Circumcision was only a outward sign of being an Israelite. He went to the grave awaiting resurrection as David also knew he would. Only the children of Christ resurrection will never see death or the grave.
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