Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • George on Daniel 7 - 2 years ago
    Was Paul married

    why was Rev 22 15 put in the Bible
  • Trip - In Reply on Daniel 7 - 2 years ago
    Because it belongs there.
  • Chris - In Reply on Daniel 7 - 2 years ago
    Revelation chapter 22 was part of the vision that the risen Christ, by His Angel, gave to His beloved servant John. To not give His Message in chapter 22 or for John to leave it out, would not make this final Book of prophecy the complete Word of God, to which no more could be added.

    Just to note verse 4: "And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads." What a wonderful expectant time that will be to all who are the redeemed of the Lord: to be with the Father & the Son in the New Jerusalem, having His Name inscribed on our foreheads, instead of the many perishing in the Lake of Fire with the Antichrist's Name placed on theirs.
  • Earl Bowman - In Reply on Daniel 7 - 2 years ago
    Brother Chris, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

    In your reply on Revelation 22 you stated that the anti-christ and those who the Father's name was not in their forehead perished in the lake or fire.

    My question is who are the ones verse 15 is speaking of and aren't they the ones verse 17 is inviting to come drink of the waters of life.

    Could it possibly be the lake of fire is is ONLY JUDGEMENT and when they have come to truth; they also will be IN CHRIST.

    Proverbs 16:1-7
  • Chris - In Reply on Daniel 7 - 2 years ago
    Page 2.

    In Revelation chapter 22, I see one part of the message completing in verse 15, with a new part beginning in verse 16. And this is the final appeal by Jesus, for all people who are alive & "athirst" (not those in Hell or consigned in judgement) to come & take of His Life-giving waters freely. Those unrepentant sinners & those consigned in judgement have no second chance, whether at death or at judgement ( Hebrews 9:27).

    I understand that you believe that the Lake of Fire is a judgement, however temporary until sinners come to the Truth. This would be a huge discussion to have, rather I would ask three questions: what was then the need for the Cross if hell was temporary?; and why the need to repent now before it's too late ( 2 Corinthians 6:2) & why the urging of Jesus & His apostles to put away sin & live accordingly in newness of mind & spirit, if eventually we all (saved now & unsaved) end up in 'Paradise'?

    If these things were not constantly before us as we read the Bible, we could then believe as you do, that there yet remains hope for the unrepentant in this life but who then repents in the next. This teaching I believe, is against God's Word & against Jesus' preaching that we have only this life to come to the Light & repent, for there remains no second chance to the sinner.
  • Chris - In Reply on Daniel 7 - 2 years ago
    Page 1.

    Dear Earl. I do understand your position about God's Judgement & the Lake of Fire, to which I'll refer to later. But to your question on Revelation 22:15 & then to Revelation 22:17.

    Revelation chapters 21 & 22 speak of the New Jerusalem coming out of Heaven. Revelation 21:8 speaks of those sinners (as described therein) who will have no part in this glorious City. And of course, this verse is linked to Revelation 22:15. So in chapter 21, we read that those 'sinners' "will have their part in the Lake of Fire" & therefore, those in chapter 22 must also refer to those same people. But the question: are those verses in conflict (i.e. are they either in the Lake of Fire or are they living out their lives outside the new City)?

    We know that this new City is prepared & brought down to the new Earth where no corruption exists nor can enter into, so what are we to make of this 'conflict'? If as you believe, that these sinners outside the City are the ones to be invited to "take of the water of life freely", then this new Earth is no longer pure & holy, as sinners also live on it. However, if Rev 22:14,15 does NOT refer to sinners sitting outside the City, peering in or longing to enter in, but rather being altogether outside the City, in Hell fire, then we have compatibility with these verses in both chapters. In Greek, the word for 'outside' ('exo') allows for being both outside of an area (e.g. Mark 3:31) or completely separated from an area (e.g. Mark 4:11). So, given Rev 21:8, one has to believe that these sinners are not waiting outside the gates, rather, they're excluded from both the City & the Earth, outside the Mercy of God, in judgement.
  • Thereisagulf - In Reply on Daniel 7 - 2 years ago
    Amen, brother Chris.
  • Jesse - In Reply on Daniel 7 - 2 years ago
    1 Corinthians 7:7 says "For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that."



    So Paul says I wish that all men were even as I myself.



    Paul was not married at that time even though he probably was married at one time. The reason was that he was a member of the Sanhedrin when persecution broke out against the early church, and one of the requirements for being in the Sanhedrin is that the person be married.



    So Paul's wife had either passed away or she divorced him because of his conversion. Whatever the case may be, we don't know. But he says I'm single, and I wished, not commanding, but I wished that everybody was as I myself.
  • Chris - In Reply on Daniel 7 - 2 years ago
    Thanks Jesse, that was very interesting to read - never considered that possibility. Just wanted to add verses 26 & 28 for further thought: Paul spoke about "the present distress" and "such shall have trouble in the flesh".

    I wonder whether the believers in Corinth were facing a particularly challenging time to their faith &/or their lives, which prompted Paul to strongly advise them to take away their focus on becoming a couple or a family & attend to what was happening around them (whatever that might have been). Again, only guesses on our part.
  • Jesse - In Reply on Daniel 7 - 2 years ago
    Hi Chris,

    From what I gather, the believers in Corinth were facing a challenging time. The church in Corinth was very corrupt and Paul wrote 1 Corinthians to address the corruption that was in the church. It was pagan worship, and prostitution was part of the worship service and people brought their families. And this was a constant seven-day-a-week influence on that city.

    So now these people have received Christ, and they're gathering together as followers of Jesus after He has saved them, but they still have to live in this environment. They are in a community where this is all the people do, is participate in perversion and corruption as part of their worship.

    So they had a great struggle in the church there because a lot of the problems that they struggled with were in the church in Corinth. That may have been the "present distress" Paul spoke about?

    I wanted to touch on what Paul's reason may have been for saying that he wished all men were like him (Single) and that if they were to marry, that such would have trouble in the flesh.

    Paul says "Such will have trouble in the flesh." It's a fact of life! Whether a married couple loves each other or not, there's going to be trouble in the flesh. It seems from Verse 35 that the motive for Paul's teaching this way was so that our devotion to the Lord will be without distraction.

    Verses 32-33 seem to show the contrast between a married and single person's devotion to the Lord, where a single person, whether a man or woman, can be totally devoted to the Lord. But a married person no longer has the same amount of devotion because their concern is on pleasing their spouse. Paul doesn't say this is wrong. I believe it's a normal human response for someone who is married.

    I believe Paul was once married, although scripture does not specifically tell us. If he was, he would have experienced it both ways as far as devotion goes, possibly prompting him to say he wished all men were single such as himself.
  • Chris - In Reply on Daniel 7 - 2 years ago
    Thanks again Jesse for sharing that and I trust you had a very enjoyable & profitable camping trip.

    What you shared truly shook me. I was well aware of the moral & spiritual condition of the city of Corinth, with its temple to Aphrodite/Astarte & its many prostitutes (serving as priestesses) that served there but had no inkling that such deplorable things had made inroads into the Church. Indeed, the Church was in a bad shape which would have grieved the apostle immensely but to have to root out wickedness at that level, would have been formidable & agonizing to him.

    So I can see that those reasons you gave would have been sufficient for Paul to express chastity as a preference to marriage. For if it was persecution that was being hurled against the Church, I would think that such a Church in such a condition would have little to fear from the world, when the world was well & truly in the Church. Blessings brother.
  • Jesse - In Reply on Daniel 7 - 2 years ago
    Hi Chris,

    You brought a couple things to my mind that I would like to share. Mainly why I think Paul had wished that men were single like him. I am out on a camping trip for the weekend but will respond back on Monday.

    God bless!



This comment thread is locked. Please enter a new comment below to start a new comment thread.

Note: Comment threads older than a month are automatically locked.
 

Do you have a Bible comment or question?


Please Sign In or Register to post comments...