Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Neil MacEwan on Psalms 91
    Q.....re Matt19:16 "...Good Master what good thing shall I do that I might have eternal life?"

    To which Jesus replies. " Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is,God..."

    What's happening here...does Jesus suggest that He ( Jesus) is not good?

    Did HE inherit the sin nature from Mary, but still remain sinless by His choices?

    HE refers to Himself in other places as the " son of man "

    If HE doesn't have the sin nature we have from the first Adam, then HE can't relate to me

    as a man, since HE doesn't have it and I do?

    Is it possible HE did all His miracles as a man, empowered by the Holy Spirit?...and He is no different

    from me ( or you ) as a believer?

    And we will do more miracles than HE did, because we believe in HIM?

    Historically there have been people who have experienced miracles, but who are totally human in nature?

    A real puzzle for me.....any thoughts on how this can be resolved?..... Neil, in Canada
  • Chris - in Reply on Psalms 91
    I'm sorry Neil, I had given you a fairly detailed response, but for some unknown reason (at least not declared to me) it has been removed. So I won't try to repeat the answer again here lest this one too suffers the same fate.

  • [Comment Removed]
  • Sacha - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Hi Chris ,please ! Read John ch1 v14 ,Acts ch2 v30&31 ,Romans ch8 v3 ,Hebrews ch5 v7 ,1st John ch4 v2 ,i could go on ...and on...
  • Chris - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Thank you Sacha for those references, which I looked up - very precious indeed. However, it seems that you have given me those references in respect to my answer to Neil, which answer of course has since been deleted.

    When finding the common denominator in those verses you gave, it seems that you are trying to alert me to the fact that Jesus had come in the flesh, in the "likeness of sinful flesh". To this (that He came in the flesh, i.e. as a human) is what I fully believe & have written much about. The point/question that Neil made was "did Jesus inherit the sin nature from Mary?" He wasn't questioning that Jesus was Human (the Son of Man) but whether the sin nature that is in all of us from Adam, was also the inescapable lot of the Man Jesus?

    To this I replied (& which you saw before the comment was removed), was that I believed that Jesus was conceived entirely of the Holy Spirit without human contribution. That is, that Mary was the vehicle (the means) by which the Father would bring forth His Son into the World, in fulfilment of the prophecy that went before Him. Is this what you're questioning, Sacha? Then I would welcome your thoughts on Jesus' conception & how you would arrive at it. Just a clue: 1 Corinthians 15:45-47.

    And of course, thoughts from others, whether Jesus' birth was without a sin nature, or with a sin nature (i.e. His Nature was already fallen by virtue of Mary but He did not sin like us, as He resisted every temptation from Satan & of the flesh)?
  • Sacha - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Hi Chris ,i am not used to teaching and preaching etc so please forgive me if i sound a bit brusque as i promise i dont mean to ,im just trying to stay on my point and not allow myself to wander ,i have heard more than one person on this site say that God is able to do anything and i whole heartedly agree , i also belive that everything God does He has a reason for doing it ,when i look at the earth and the life on it and the planets etc i see precision ,attention to detail ,complexity and beautifull perfection ,when i read about the tabernacle and solomons temple and the temple in ezekiel i see precision and perfection and details beyond my imagination ,when i read the laws of sacrifices and offerings i see very definate procedure and harmony ,God gives the children of Israel very specific instructions as to how they may approach Him ,He gives us specific instructions also ,so yes of course God can do anything though it seems to me that God isnt ever random ,it seems to me that God creates complex beauty every where and in an orderly fashion ,He could have created Jesus in a silmilar way to Adam ,He could have created Jesus as a fully formed adult ,full of the Holy Spirit ,out of the sand in the desert in Israel ,He could have created Jesus from a stone ,He chose to have His Son born of a human woman who by her fleshly nature is sinfull ,do you think there might have been a reason for this choice ?
  • S Spencer on Jesus our kinsman redeemer page 2 - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Page 2

    And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

    And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

    And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

    And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast """REDEEMED""" us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

    As we see here in Revelation 5:2-3. ( They sought out a worthy "MAN" to open the sealed book ) :And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

    And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

    You had to be born of a woman, you see a picture of kinsman redeemer in the book of Ruth with Boaz.

    I hope that helps.
  • S Spencer on Jesus our kinsman redeemer page 1 - in Reply on Psalms 91
    HI Sacha,

    Page 1

    That is a great question and important topic that you are inquiring about, "He chose to have His Son born of a human woman who by her fleshly nature is sinfull ,do you think there might have been a reason for this choice ?" And you also mentioned the seed of the woman which ties to this,

    If I'm understanding the question as presented I think the study we are looking for is a study in

    ( KINSMAN REDEEMER).

    Jesus was born of a woman to become our kinsman redeemer.

    Galatians 4:4-5. But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

    Hebrews 2:9-11.

    But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

    For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

    For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

    Roman 8:3.

    For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son " IN THE ''''LIKENESS"'' of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    Revelation 5:2-5.

    And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

    And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

    And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

    And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
  • Earl Bowman - in Reply on Psalms 91
    S Spencer, great insight on the kinsman redeemer; also foreshadowed in the year of jubilee. May the Spirit continue gracing us with HIS light. GBU
  • S Spencer Restitution of all things - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Thanks Earl!.

    That Made me think of "The Restitution of all things""

    Acts 3:18-21.

    But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

    Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

    And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

    Whom the heaven must receive until the times of RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    It's Interesting I think the Kinsman Redeemer is also the revenger of blood also.

    But as a Interesting side note,

    There's three places sought out to find a ""Man"" that was Worthy to Redeem what some Scholars call the title deed of the Earth, "Seal Book written on both sides"

    ( Here we are in Revelation ch 5 and the tribulation have not even started and we see ""Man"" Sought out IN HEAVEN!! Not only that suggest we'll go to Heaven but also it seems like the RAPTURE has already taken place!!!)

    Revelation 5:3. AND NO MAN IN HEAVEN, NOR IN EARTH, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
  • Sacha - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Hi S Spenser ,thanks for your reply ,there are plenty of things that we can debate about that i dont think its essential for our salvation that we understand perfectly ,for example ,i cant get my head around why Jesus would tell mary not to touch him as he had not yet ascended but not too long after tell thomas to put his hand in his wounds ,i do think that there are some things that we all need to be clear on ,im not going to go on and on ,i think ive said enough and made myself clear ,i hope now to focus on the things that bind us together in the love of the Eternal Truth ,its hard for me to stay silent when its something im convinced of ,im sure we have all felt that way some time ,may we all grow in Gods grace and understanding of His Word .Thanks for listening and taking time to answer ,i appreciate that .
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Goodmorning Sacha,

    You're welcome and Thank you, ,have a blessed Day.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Sacha,

    I am not trying to intrude in your conversation, but reading your post, I felt inclined to share something with you about your statement "I can't get my head around why Jesus would tell Mary not to touch him."

    John Chapter 20 tells us that this was right after Jesus rose from the tomb. When Mary first saw Jesus, she thought He was the gardener. But after hearing His voice, she realized it was Jesus and she grabbed onto him. And Jesus said unto her, "Touch me not."

    Now it is very interesting what the text says. This is one of those instances where the English text doesn't help us out much. We read Jesus saying don't touch me, and it's like what's that all about? First of all, the word "touch" is the word HAPTO, and it means to fasten. It doesn't mean to touch as in "Don't touch me, stay away from me!" It means don't fasten yourself to me. It is a Present Imperative in the Greek text which indicates that she is already doing it. She is holding on tight and not going to let go. Jesus is not saying don't touch me. He's saying stop clinging to me.

    As a matter of fact, in Matthew 28:9, Matthew tells us that she had a death grip on His ankles. She was not going to let Him out of her sight again! So He wasn't telling her "Don't touch me." He was saying let go, don't cling to me, stop clinging to me.

    And there was a reason for it, He says in John 20:17, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: In other words, He is saying, and you see, here is where the changeover comes. Here's where the ministry comes in.

    He has now revealed Himself as the resurrected one to Mary, and she's got this grip on Him like I'm never going to let you out of my sight again, and He is telling her, "You have to let go because I have not yet gone to the Father."

    This is not going to be a physical relationship where you can see me and hear me. It's going to be by faith. So it is interesting!

    I hope this might give you a better understanding of why Jesus made that statement.
  • Sacha - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Thankyou Jesse ,i appreciate that ,its very helpfull ,i have a concordance ,i guess i need to use it more ! Thanks again .
  • Chris - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Page 3.

    If Mary contributed to the conception of the Babe, then you're right, the Babe would have inherited her sin nature. If this were so, then Jesus would have not qualified to be the Lamb of God as He would be imperfect. Is a human baby imperfect? Yes. The sin nature is there but since sin has not been committed at that stage, there is no condemnation against it - but that baby would never fulfil God's requirements to be a sacrifice for sin.

    But Jesus, as a Babe, as a Man, could, because He had no sin nature in spite of many deliberate attempts by Satan to make that happen. Had Jesus succumbed, He would have failed as God's Sacrifice, we would still be in our sins & God would have no other Sacrifice option to give. Why? Because He gave the very best - HIMSELF. Such is the demonstration & proof of Divine Love: in the giving of oneself for the salvation of the helpless & hopeless, lost in sin.

    How we can praise Jesus today & always that for our sakes He remained unstained by the sin nature & sin and was "obedient (to the Father right up) unto death, even the death of the cross". May the Lord enable you Sacha in every way as you meditate on His Word on this very important matter of belief.
  • Sacha - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Chris ,you are correct ,this is a very important matter ,i didnt notice in your post if you answered my question or not . I would like to ask another ,what was Christs victory over ?And how did he achieve this victory ? Sorry thats two questions ,three if you count the previous one .
  • Chris - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Page 2.

    Jesus needed to live a normal human existence, identifying in every way with His people, with their sufferings, their joys, hopes, doubts, sicknesses, etc. And He could only do this if He came as a Babe, growing up as a young man & fulfilling the Will of God in life & death. ( Hebrews 2:16-18). And even though the people saw Him only as the son of Joseph & Mary ( Matthew 13:55,56), they should have known the Scriptures that spoke of His coming ( Isaiah 7:14; Daniel 9:24-26; Isaiah chaps 52 & 53; Zechariah 9:9, 12:10; & many others).

    To your other questions: "what was Christ's victory over?" Ultimately, He was victorious over death & hell; by implication: over sin's penalty & over Satan's power to all who believed. 2 Timothy 1:10; 1 Corinthians 15:25,26 & Revelation 20:14.

    And "how did He achieve this victory?" Only by the Cross. What seemed to the world & to Satan as the final death blow to Jesus to be rid of Him, in fact became the very means of salvation to all who would believe on Him. Jesus' resurrection was God's glorious proclamation of His acceptance that sin's price was now fully paid & that all who put their trust in Him would be cleansed by Jesus' Blood, justified, accepted & glorified ( Romans 8:30).
  • Ron - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Chris, Beautiful posts great information, just one thing. God gave his only begotten Son for us, the same he asked Abraham to do but God went through. The law and the prophets, Jesus came to fulfill and only flesh, same as our sinful flesh could fulfill it and pay the penalty. If Jesus did not have the sinful flesh that came from the first Adam and Jesus was incapable of sin what did He fulfill?

    Romans.8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    We seeing Jesus the same as we having the same feelings and the same temptations as we do, but He did not sin. This shows us He is worthy to follow and be our high priest and King.

    Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

    Sinful flesh does not cause the blemishes it is the sin that one does. Jesus' sinless perfect life was the perfect sacrifice. God cannot be tempted, Jesus was, God cannot die, Jesus willfully did for us. God sent Jesus and then the Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus for any that will believe and follow Him.

    Love your posts very helpful, keep up Gods work, Ron
  • Chris - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Page 2.

    I tend to see our human flesh as totally corrupt, save for the redemptive work of our Saviour & renewed spirits to live above that corruption. I just can't see Jesus having that flesh, which he would have, if Mary contributed to his conception. But if he did have that flesh (even though never sinning), the corrupt sin nature in Him (from Mary) would preclude Him from being an acceptable Sacrifice - He could no longer be called the "Last Adam" sent from God. Every blessing Ron.
  • Ron - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Chris, thanks for your reply. I agree there is no good in us, maybe I pushed the issue on the flesh. The Bible shows us the birth of Jesus and a few years after and then a glimpse at around 12 years old. Next, He comes as the Messiah around 30 years old. Jesus lived his life without any sin. Most of the New Testament covers Jesus as the Messiah/ Christ. The main thing I was saying regardless of the flesh the Son of God was in, He had to have the ability to sin and be judged by the law and found spotless, so when Jesus was crucified Jesus faced the same first death as we will, but death had no hold on Him. Therefore, Jesus fulfilled the law.

    Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

    Romans.8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    God bless, Ron
  • Chris - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Page 1.

    Thank you for your reply, Ron - much appreciated. If I could just address a couple of your points:

    a. "If Jesus did not have the sinful flesh that came from the first Adam and Jesus was incapable of sin what did He fulfill?" You clearly referred to Matthew 5:17. Using the Greek words for 'abolish & fulfil', their meanings are: abolish = to destroy, abrogate, or to deny Divine Authority. And 'fulfil' = to complete, fill up what was predicted, accomplish what was intended by it.

    When we read it as given, then we see that the Lord, in His 'sinless' condition, could indeed fulfil the Law, because His coming was not to prove His ability to be obedient to the Law but was for the purpose to bring the Law to its planned & proper completion. And this He did as the One Who not only was the Word of God (as the Word/Law/Prophecies) given to Israel, but also Who came now in human form (that Word made Flesh) to bring the Law to finality by His death, resurrection & bringing in of a better Covenant ( Hebrews 8:6,7).

    b. Romans 8:3. "in the likeness of sinful flesh". Many look at this phrase as supporting the belief that Jesus had sinful flesh as we have. If that were so, then he would have the sin nature in Him as 'sinful flesh' speaks of that, in one respect. In the other respect, it could also mean that Jesus came in human flesh, resembling (likeness of) sinful flesh that he partook of flesh, or the nature of man, but without any of its sinful propensities or desires. Why would that be? Because the sin nature, which is common to man, was not found in Him. Satan's great desire was to replicate what he did to the first Adam - but the last Adam withstood him disallowing sin to enter thereby imputing the sin nature.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Hello brother Ron,

    As I don't want to get in between you and Adams discussion. I just wanted to note one thing that I have read of in the Scriptures. Satan can tempt anyone, even God, as shown in the beginning of the book of Job. Where the sons of God(Holy angels) came to present themselves before the Lord and satan was there. Of coarse satan thinks he can get people to turn against God. Though God is always ahead of the devil. As Jesus Christ was(on earth) and is always also.

    He actually temps Him twice. Once in Job 1:6-12. Then again pushing further in Job 2:1-6. He wanted to get Job to curse God. Though he fails as usual.

    Maybe a way to subdue one thing you and Adam are conversing about. With "sin nature" in Jesus Christ. I believe He was part man(from Mary) and part God(from our Father in Heaven). So my answer to if He had a sin nature or not would be "yes and no". As I don't think many would really take that as an answer to that question though that is how I perceive it. Jesus Christ was like no other being that ever walked this earth.

    Have a peaceful conversation my brothers in Christ.

    God Bless.
  • Ron - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Richard in Christ thanks, maybe less or better wording would have been better but Jesus had to have the ability to sin and be judged by the law and found perfect and spotless, He overcame. Therefore, He had the authority and the ability to fill the terms of the contract and do away with the old and confirm the new. Thanks for the advice when discussions complete a circle, you go no further forward and cause harm. Silence and prayer open doors once given the key.

    God bless, Ron
  • Carleton - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Hello Ron, What holy thing has been born of a woman from Adam until Jesus?

    "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" Luke 1:35

    "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" John 1:14

    "I am the bread of life.. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.."

    I am the bread which came down from Heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world" John 6:48-51

    "He can not deny himself" 2 Timothy 2:13

    Carleton
  • Ron - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Hey Carlton good to hear from you, I read your posts, well done. Nowhere or no how did any part of my post be in any way saying Jesus was not holy. I am sorry you felt it did. Jesus has always been holy. Jesus came in the flesh and was sacrificed for the sins of many and put in the grave and was resurrected the third day on the Feast of First Fruits.

    Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    I said that Jesus was in the same flesh as we because if He was not He would not have been affected in the same way we are. He had to be tempted the same as we are, if not He would have not fulfilled the prophets and the law. He was as much flesh as me or you but he lived on this earth sinless and a perfect life fulfilling his Father's will for us. That is what's so amazing, He left the glory He had in heaven to do that for us.

    I hope that makes sense, Ron
  • Sacha - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Hi Ron ,hope you dont mind me butting my head in ! Christ represents the two Israels ,Israel in the flesh ,the Jews ,the natural branches and he had to ,he is of the Jews ,salvation is of the Jews ,he is Marys biological Son in every sense ,he also represents us ,sprirtual Israel ,Christians who are born again of the Holy Spirit ! Not quite as literally as Jesus was ,we have biological fathers but we are baptized into his death and resurected when we are submerged in the waters of baptism and we are cleansed by these waters and born again of the Holy Spirit and grafted in . Pure perfection .
  • Carleton - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Hello Ron, Thank you for your time and discussion. My meditation on the subject at hand: Isaiah 53:2 perhaps because of the calendar comes to mind: "...he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him"

    The Lord Jesus as a babe and his entire conversation from Bethlehem to Calvary he denied himself of his glory and found himself in the likeness of sinful man. No one knew him. He was outwardly tempted by Satan but chose to believe his Father in Heaven and deny the world of it's offers and carry His flesh to the cross in all purity. It was at the cross where he took the sins of this earth from Adam until time is no more upon his Holy flesh and it became sin unto Him. He had to die in the flesh because of the law, God's law. His spirit still knew no sin but it knew what it is like for sinful man to have the Father look away. Yet Jesus was also the mercy seat over the law which His own blood and water sprinkled clean thereby opening the way for sinful man in the flesh to come unto Him by Faith and repentance of sin.

    Carleton
  • Ron - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Thanks, Carleton sorry I misspelled your name. Then we see from Daniel 9:24 The sixth thing determined, Jesus to anoint the most Holy.

    Hebrews 9:11-12 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

    Thanks, Carleton your posts are encouraging and uplifting.

    God bless, Ron
  • Carleton - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Thank you Ron, God Bless our willingness to understand the depths of Christ and his work at Calvary more. As I drove home from work, I wondered of we Christians practiced more self denial as Jesus did as the Son of God, how much clearer our witness would be when handling the Word of God. I need help in this area and I am sure it is part of why for now I am here posting with the Lambs of Christ.

    I have mis-spelled my own name on some posts. I appreciate the Hebrews verse you wrote, it speaks to me and for me.

    :)

    Carleton
  • Carleton - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Sorry about the repeat error.
  • Adam - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Hi Ron, I agree with some of what you said, except for the following assumptions:

    "If Jesus did not have the sinful flesh that came from the first Adam and Jesus was incapable of sin what did He fulfill?"

    I don't believe the above assumption is true. The Bible clearly says Jesus was without sin (perfect), so why even flirt with the idea that He wasn't? Where does that idea even come from?

    Jesus didn't come to die for His own sins, but for yours, for mine, for all human beings past, present and future. Why assume it has anything to do with Jesus' doing something wrong? It wasn't about Him atoning for His sin, but yours! That's what makes it extra special and loving- He loved you that much to give you that gift that frankly He had no business doing.

    The other assumptions I noticed was this, which I also don't believe is true:

    "God cannot be tempted, Jesus was, God cannot die, Jesus willfully did for us."

    First, what do you mean by God cannot be tempted- do you mean God won't give into temptation or is impossible for a tempter like satan to tempt Him? Human beings are tempted by satan as a normal part of being human- so of course Jesus was tempted. It's possible you got this idea from: James 1:13, but it says God cannot be tempted with evil. It doesn't say that if God becomes a man that satan can't attempt to tempt him. This is likely at the core of this misunderstanding. Of course the Bible says clearly that Jesus is God in John 1:1 and many other verses.

    Second, you wrote: "God cannot die, Jesus willfully did for us"

    I agree with the first part that God can't die. But then you wrote that Jesus died for us. Yes, as a human being, not as God. His spirit didn't die. So, this sounds like it's conflating 2 different things and assuming that Jesus doesn't have a soul or spirit or that there's no afterlife? Since all human beings have a soul/spirit and an afterlife, and since God the Father is a spirit, of course God the Son has this too which didn't die. God bless.
  • Ron - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Hey Adam, I hope everything is well, My words are not as elegant as some on here. First, my meaning, the Law of Moses given by God, no man has ever fulfilled and no one has been sin-free. If Jesus came not being able to sin, and He could not be tempted, He would have not lived under the law because He was above the Law. Jesus did not sin He was perfect. Jesus lived in the flesh under the same conditions as we are in sinful flesh. That does not even hint He died for his own sins. He did not have any sins.

    It's like if you and I had to go through an obstacle course and I was able to go to the finish line without going through the course, how could I say I finished perfectly. Satan would be in front of God calling foul it doesn't count.

    James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

    Jesus in the flesh was tempted his entire fleshly life on earth even 40 days and 40 nights from Satan.

    I said Jesus willfully died for us, if His body had not died and placed in the tomb and God resurrected Him on the third day we have no hope.

    I do not remember saying anything about soul/spirit or an afterlife that was not in this discussion.

    God bless you, Ron
  • Adam - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Hi Ron, thanks for clarifying. The reason I responded is it sounded like you were trying to claim Jesus isn't God with the following phrase: "God cannot die, Jesus willfully did for us"

    It sounded like you were trying to draw a contrast between God and Jesus. This is why I pointed out the false equivalency, that Jesus only died temporarily in the flesh, not spirit. So, if someone attempted to claim that... 'God cannot die, but Jesus did therefore He isn't God', I clearly pointed out that would be a false assumption and false equivalency fallacy.

    "I do not remember saying anything about soul/spirit or an afterlife that was not in this discussion." It was indirectly in your statement.

    Lately there have been a loud minority intentionally pushing an anti-Jesus agenda by attacking His divinity, despite John 1:1 and so many others, so I am exposing that as a false teaching. I don't think God is behind any movement attempting to discredit Jesus, but I know who else might be. God bless.
  • Chris - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Page 1.

    Hi Sacha, I believe your first question had to do with "the reason for God to have His Son born of a sinful human, when He could have brought Him into the World in another way". So I did answer your question, though probably not in the way you expected; I specifically wanted to show that the "sinful flesh" of Mary wasn't an issue because Mary didn't contribute to His Birth, which meant that Jesus was perfect in every way: without a sin nature & without sin. He was born in total purity just as the first Adam was created in purity, but Jesus did not sin as Adam did. And this opposes your understanding that Jesus was born with sinful flesh (you wrote this in another comment).

    So depending on how you understood/accepted/rejected my comment, I could then elaborate further. So I'll continue. Your question: "why couldn't Jesus come to Earth in another way?" Ultimately, God has the answer to this though we can offer our thoughts:

    Jesus was sent primarily to God's chosen people, Israel, for their blessing, benefit & salvation. God had planned this in eternity that through His chosen seed (Seth) & succeeding generations of Noah, Shem, Abraham, Jacob, Judah, David, etc., that the Messiah would come.

    If God placed His Messiah on Earth from nothing (i.e. just zapped Him onto Israeli soil) how would Israel respond to His appearance. Knowing that in Eastern cultures a person's lineage is vitally important for many reasons, someone who came & said that He had no descendants but just came from Heaven, would have been totally unacceptable. As it was, most of the people rejected Jesus in His day, but not to have descendants one could hardly imagine how they would have viewed Him & would have cast Him away as a mad man.
  • Chris - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Page 2.

    Would the Love of God for sinners be seen in creating another human or animal (though perfect) to represent Him in sacrifice & prove His Love? It would be like saying, 'I don't want to risk my life to go out to save the drowning man; I would rather find another to do it for me'. Where is the true Love here?

    Rather, for John 15:13 to reveal Jesus' Mind, we can only understand that Jesus was the One Who delighted to accomplish His Father's Will as a Man: John 6:38; Philippians 2:6-8.

    So to the question: who is this Jesus & was He linked to Mary by blood thereby inheriting her sin nature? From the Scriptures just given, we see that Jesus is inextricably connected to God & came down from Heaven as God sent out His Word to be made human ( John 1:1,14). Can God (His Word made flesh) be found with a sin nature? To answer that, I referred you to 1 Corinthians 15:45-47. Here we saw that God's first creation (Adam) is of the Earth, earthy; the second Man is the Lord from Heaven" & He is referred to as the last Adam.

    So God had determined two separate creations. The first one was created perfect but was deceived & sinned. The second One was created perfect, not from dust, but by the Spirit who took the Word & placed it in Mary to be brought into the World not as a man formed from & lying on the ground but as a Babe formed by the Spirit & issued through a woman.
  • Chris - in Reply on Psalms 91
    Page 1.

    Thank you Sacha - I welcome all responses, as whatever is shared, unless completely in opposition to God's Word, can be useful for our knowledge & spiritual growth in the things & ways of God. So I agree, God did choose to have His Son born through a human, even though all humans are imputed with a sinful nature. And yes, I believe there was a reason for doing so.

    At the foundation of Jesus' arrival & His Sacrifice, lies the unfathomable Love of God for mankind: John 3:16 & Romans 5:8 attest to it. To His people, Israel, that Love extended to the institution of the Law & the sacrificial system, so that through its performance, God's Anger against their sin was appeased & His Love declared in providing them a way out: a blood sacrifice was needed (through a pure spotless animal) so that life was paid for life (a substitutionary payment: Mark 10:45; 1 Peter 3:18). But that was for a time until Jesus came to fulfil the Will of God His Father ( Hebrews 10:5-10).

    Since the animal sacrifices were temporary because of their inability to fully address the sin issue, they had to be a continual sacrifice, they gave no relief to man's consciences & never fulfilled God's eternal Plan, so at "the due time" God sent His Son to fully meet those shortcomings. God could have sent a specially created Lamb to fulfil this work or as some believe, a specially created Human to lay down His Life for sinners. So why didn't God do this?

    Ultimately, the reason for this is in the Mind of God, but no doubt His Love for all, His requirement for a Perfect Sacrifice that fulfilled all His Demands & that there would be no further need nor better option to accomplish that Will, are a few of my thoughts. John 15:13 says, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." Was not Jesus intimating that the fullest expression of Love is seen in one's unreserved willingness to sacrifice his own life because of the love for another?



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