I have seen people state Jesus Christ died for past, present, and future sins. I have never seen this quote in Scripture. I have two verses, two different books and writers, that state quite clear that Christ died for our past sins. Perceive as in Romans Paul talks about our old person is crucified with Christ. So we can walk in newness of life and not serve sin,let not sin reign in your mortal bodies and obey the lusts of the flesh, to not yield our members as instruments unto unrighteousness unto sin!!
Also stating that "God forbid" you sin because of being under the grace of God. This is the same Paul who wrote the verses some people perceive as "believe & have faith in Jesus Christ and your sealed". Basically people stating it doesn't matter if you sin or not.
Like I stated to another person: I hope you're right. In no way, shape, or form do I see this teaching in the Holy Bible. The earliest teachings of Christ were "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand".
It seems some perceive us who have a zeal to follow Christ, and actually try to separate from the sins of this world, that we are trying to earn our salvation. This is incorrect. For me and other true children of God anyway. The reason I actually try to keep myself away from sin, thanks to the Holy Ghost, is because it is the Will of our Father in Heaven. God never condones sin. He loves the sinner(people/His creation) but hates sin.
We are not taking anything away from our Lord and none of us will ever be "perfect". Jesus Christ was our perfect example and we should try to follow Him. Do you love the Lord or the sins of this world??
I am not posting this to get into an argument. Would you put your soul on the line that it's ok to sin or doesn't matter? Even if I was wrong and I didn't have to repent and strive to separate myself from the sins of this world for the Lord. For me it doesn't matter. I'm not doing it for myself. I do it to honor and glorify our Father. Let your light shine!
I think there are many quotes that Christians use that are not found in the Bible, Jesus dying for sin, past, present, and future being one of them.
Even though that quote is not found in scripture, I believe the concept is there. I believe Jesus died for all my sin.
Peter said in 1 Peter 2:24 that Jesus bore our sins (plural) in His body on the cross.
The way I see it is that I wasn't even born yet when Jesus died on the cross and bore my sins (all my sins).
Jesus knew me before I was even born. He knew the day I would be born, He knows the day I will die.
He knew I would be born into this world a sinner. He knew that one day I would receive Him. He knew every sin I committed prior to surrendering my life to Him. And He knows every sin I will commit from this day forward.
I believe The blood He shed on the cross covered all my sin. Whether a believer says "past, present, and future sin," or Jesus died for my sins like Peter said, I think the concept is the same.
If I commit a sin in the future, which I know I will, I believe Jesus died for that also. There is so much power in the blood He shed, and I believe that blood covers all my sins.
I know it is not a license to go out and sin, and God forbid if anyone thinks that way. If a believer thinks they can go out and sin because they are covered, God is going to deal with that believer, and sometimes His discipline can be very harsh.
Please know that like you, I don't wish to argue here. I just wanted to share my thoughts on sin. We often sin without even realizing we are sinning. Thankfully for all of us, God's grace is greater than our sin!
When asked the greatest commandment, Jesus replied, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Mat 22:37-40.
Maybe it's just me, but I have failed this many times each day of my life!
Jesus ended part of his Sermon on the Mount with these words, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Mat 5:48.
Me, not even close!
But don't loose heart. Jesus also said, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."Joh 10:27-29.
Jesus call these sheep, and me, MY sheep.
"ALL that the Father giveth me SHALL COME TO ME; and him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of ALL which he hath given me I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."Joh 6:37-40.
"And this is the record, that God HATH given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that HATH the Son HATH life; and he that HATH NOT the Son of God HATH NOT life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." 1Jn 5:11-13.
I was reading through your post again because you shared some beautiful things. Sometimes as I'm reading through things, certain thoughts come to mind.
I've been thinking about Jesus saying my sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Something that really stands out for me is "I know them." I might say that I know Christ, but what's most important is that He knows me. He knows me! He knows you! He knows all that belong to him.
By Him saying "I know them," wouldn't that pretty much guarantee our salvation no matter what?
In Matthew 7:21-23, it seems as though many who professed to know Christ, even claiming to do many things in His name, and Jesus says depart from me, I NEVER knew you.
Now if He says "I know them," present condition, referring to His sheep, saved believers who belong to Him, how would He ever be able to one day tell us "Depart from me, I never knew you?" If He knows us now, He would never be able to later on say I never knew you!
Thanks so much for the things you shared. Definitely thought provoking. The Lord is good!
No, it's not just you. I often feel the same way. But who are we but broken vessels needing to be mended? I believe that mending (KATARTIDZO) is a lifetime process. God is mending us each and every day. All we have to do is submit to Him and be faithful, as He is faithful in His promises to us.
I'd like to share with you from a biblical Greek perspective what I've learned about loving the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, and mind, and loving our neighbor as ourselves. Our English bible makes it sound like the Lord is commanding us to go out and do these things. But how can we? We can't. That word love is the word AGAPE. In the flesh we cannot produce that type of love. Only God's Spirit can produce that love.
In the Greek text, those two "commandments" are not written in the command form. They are written as statements of fact. What it is telling us is that when God's Spirit comes into our lives, we will love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, and mind. And we will love our neighbor as ourselves. It's a statement of fact.
We often think that God commanded us to go out and love our neighbor. So what do we do? In the flesh, we go out and try to fulfill that love. And then we fail because the flesh cannot produce that type of love. You see, God is not commanding us to go out and love. He's telling us that we will love. It's a statement of fact. It's His Spirit that gives us the capacity to love Him and to love our neighbor.
Yes, Matthew 5:48 says "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." The Greek word for perfect means to function in purpose. You see, Jesus gives the example that God the Father, He makes the rain fall on the just and the unjust. He is no respecter of persons.
So He says that we, under the influence of God's Spirit, should be just like Him, Jesus, because that is what Jesus does. And so He is the representative of God's love.
What a beautiful declaration you gave on Agape "A fruit, something we get by being connected to the vine, It's virtue
John 15:4-5. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for WITHOUT ME YE CAN DO NOTHING. .
This love is our confirmation, " we can know we're in him!!
1 John 3:18-19. My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
John has a lot to say about this, look what's contuary to this.
1 John 3:10-15. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
It's Amazing how we stay away from this topic because it manifest who we are and whether we are on the right side of salvation!!
It says the brothern, I don't think in these verses it's from believers to non believers, I think it's the spirit that bonds the unity.
John 13:34-35. A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. This is the law he said he would put IN man's heart.
Thank you! You touched on my favorite chapter in the entire Bible, John Chapter 15. Years ago in my Koine Greek class, we studied that chapter and the word abide, MENO in Greek.
MENO is used in several places in scripture and it denotes permanency. We permanently are abiding in Him, and He in us.
Yes, Jesus says without me, you cannot do one thing. I think the best way we can express our submission to Him, is to get up in the morning, ready to face our day, and say "Lord, I can't do it. I can't go through this day without you."
I agree that this love, Agape love is our confirmation that He is in us. He gives us the ability to love, and not Human love which is a different word, PHILEO.
Our brothers and sisters in Christ come first, even before ourselves. We can only have that type of love because the creator of the entire universe lives in us, and He is love!
I am not sure if I can share additional insight with you on the vine and branches. The things you said were pretty much spot on. Your knowledge is pretty solid. All glory to God for that.
There are a few more things in Chapter 15 that I find interesting, things you may already know but I can still share.
Jesus said I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. It's literally I am the genuine vine, and my Father is the earth worker.
That is fascinating to me because having some (very little) knowledge about horticulture, I know that a tree or vine can have many branches attached to it, some living, and some dead.
All these branches are attached to the same vine, and yet some never produce fruit. They are dead branches.
In the O.T., the vine was always used as an example of Israel, especially Isaiah 5:1-7, also known as the song of the vineyard, how that God planted a vineyard and it was the nation Israel.
But they grew wild grapes, and thorns grew and God allowed the vineyard to be overrun by wild animals, which symbolized His judgement against Israel.
So now Jesus is telling His disciples that I am the genuine vine, not the symbolic one of the O.T. He says I am the genuine vine and my Father is the farmer, the earth worker.
There are two phrases Jesus uses that sometimes cause confusion. First of all there's the phrase "in me." He says every branch "in me" that does not bear fruit. That's not a saved person. That's the nation Israel being in God.
The other phrase Jesus uses is "Abide in me." The ones abiding in the vine produce fruit. Then there are the branches that Jesus says are in me. But they don't produce fruit, neither can they.
The branches that are in Christ but are not bearing fruit, they are only physically connected. Internally they are cut off from the life source. The branches that are abiding in Him are the ones that are connected to the internal life source of the vine who is Jesus Christ!
I recently expounded on those verses in that fashion!!
I think we see it also played out in Mathew 21 parable especially in verse 43.
Matthew 21:43 (KJV) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. I take That nation to be the church.
John 15 is centered in so many verses in the Bible. Thank you.
Yes, I do see how Matthew 21:43 ties into this. We have to remember that the Jews were cut off from the tree, and we (Gentiles) were grafted in. Could the nation Jesus is referring to be the church? I think the church is part of it. However, the word used in the Greek text for nation is the word ETHNEI which would be translated "to a people."
Some English translations including the King James say to a nation, while others say to a people. I might be a little bit off on this, but I think the bible only talks about two types of people, Jews, and Gentiles.
Anyway, those were very strong words Jesus used in Matthew 21:43. Can you imagine what the Jews must have been thinking? He says it is going to be taken away from you, and the vineyard is going to be given to the Gentiles. The Jews considered the Gentiles unclean. Gentiles were even called dogs. And now here's Jesus telling them that it will be taken from them and given to the Gentiles. I'm sure that didn't sit too well with them!
Paul says in Romans Chapter 11 that we are grafted into the vineyard. But that's so the Jews would be jealous because we have their Messiah.
Paul also says in Romans Chapter 11 that when Christ comes at His second coming, those Jews who are alive on the earth, he says all of Israel will be saved.
They will then own Him as their Messiah. But until then, it's been taken away.
John 10:16 (KJV) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
The plan was revealed in the old testament but hidden to their eyes and ears.
There's a lot said when the Lord says in
John 10:4. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
We're not his sheep BECAUSE we follow him, we follow him BECAUSE we are his sheep! ""WE hear his voice "" slight difference in grammar, big difference in meaning.
At night all the shepherds in the area would bring their sheep to be kept in a protected area , where they are mixed with all the other sheep, " they didn't brand the sheep " the next day the shepherd would go in and call their sheep, they hear his voice, they follow him.
"We're not his sheep BECAUSE we follow him, we follow him BECAUSE we are his sheep!"
I like that! There is so much symbolism in John Chapter 10. There are eight terms used that we should all be familiar with that represent or symbolize something: sheepfold, The Porter (Doorkeeper), the door, the sheep, the shepherd, the hireling, thieves, and lastly robbers. They all represent something.
I agree with what you shared about the sheep being all put together in one place at night. There could have been hundreds if not thousands of sheep enclosed together in one place, and multiple shepherds each owning a portion of these sheep.
It fascinates me that each shepherd, one at a time, would come to the door and call for his sheep, and out of the many that were in there, only his would come out. None of the other sheep would come out.
In Palestine, the shepherds would call for their sheep. That's it! They didn't have to herd them from behind with horses and dogs to get them to where they needed to be. Instead of the shepherd herding the sheep from behind, he was ahead of the sheep and they followed him just by hearing his voice.
Our proper position in Christ is always behind Him. We don't walk beside Him, and we don't walk ahead of Him. Our proper position will always be behind Him. That's why He gave us the command to follow Him.
Just like the sheep in Palestine who heard the voice of their shepherd and followed him, we also as sheep hear the voice of our shepherd, and we follow Him, behind Him!
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. First Timothy 3:15
Hello Richard, There are many sins that there is power for a born again believer to live above. For example using replacement words for curse words especially ones that sound similar to God or Jesus. Is it not a sin to offend a little one? What about offending one's wife or a brother in a Church or the neighbor next door? How many Christians with power cannot find the grace to say they are sorry and reconcile to the best of their might to make things right again. What about divorce as a Christian? What about smoking or drinking, even once to excess? What about anger? What about paying Cesar what is due? What about turning the eye from even the possibility of lust? What about modesty? What about simplicity? What about economy? What do we as Christians allow ourselves that may be sinful and weaken our Christian witness? What about favoritism, racism, entitlements and pride? One thing common to man is to blame others and hold others for something they have no power themselves to avoid. But God knows! Legalism is one ditch while liberalism is another. Whose ditch is it? The light Skip mentioned is the true light that came down from heaven and it shines it's beam in darkness to give hope to those who will perish if they do not repent and believe in Jesus.
Perhaps we agree in this matter, it is hard to tell.
Thank you for your love. God will justly lay conviction on our hearts and lives to bring needed changes regarding our needs (my needs). Thankfully it will not be us that has to cherry pick.which weights cloud our relationship with Jesus and interfere with His message to "Come". We just have to be obedient to the Spirit and there will be grace made available. God loves us, enough to cleanse our minds even those minds who are saved while rime remains. That we can be bold to carry these burdens to Him and not let our hearts be overtaken.
Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Luke 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Also stating that "God forbid" you sin because of being under the grace of God. This is the same Paul who wrote the verses some people perceive as "believe & have faith in Jesus Christ and your sealed". Basically people stating it doesn't matter if you sin or not.
Like I stated to another person: I hope you're right. In no way, shape, or form do I see this teaching in the Holy Bible. The earliest teachings of Christ were "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand".
It seems some perceive us who have a zeal to follow Christ, and actually try to separate from the sins of this world, that we are trying to earn our salvation. This is incorrect. For me and other true children of God anyway. The reason I actually try to keep myself away from sin, thanks to the Holy Ghost, is because it is the Will of our Father in Heaven. God never condones sin. He loves the sinner(people/His creation) but hates sin.
We are not taking anything away from our Lord and none of us will ever be "perfect". Jesus Christ was our perfect example and we should try to follow Him. Do you love the Lord or the sins of this world??
I am not posting this to get into an argument. Would you put your soul on the line that it's ok to sin or doesn't matter? Even if I was wrong and I didn't have to repent and strive to separate myself from the sins of this world for the Lord. For me it doesn't matter. I'm not doing it for myself. I do it to honor and glorify our Father. Let your light shine!
Even though that quote is not found in scripture, I believe the concept is there. I believe Jesus died for all my sin.
Peter said in 1 Peter 2:24 that Jesus bore our sins (plural) in His body on the cross.
The way I see it is that I wasn't even born yet when Jesus died on the cross and bore my sins (all my sins).
Jesus knew me before I was even born. He knew the day I would be born, He knows the day I will die.
He knew I would be born into this world a sinner. He knew that one day I would receive Him. He knew every sin I committed prior to surrendering my life to Him. And He knows every sin I will commit from this day forward.
I believe The blood He shed on the cross covered all my sin. Whether a believer says "past, present, and future sin," or Jesus died for my sins like Peter said, I think the concept is the same.
If I commit a sin in the future, which I know I will, I believe Jesus died for that also. There is so much power in the blood He shed, and I believe that blood covers all my sins.
I know it is not a license to go out and sin, and God forbid if anyone thinks that way. If a believer thinks they can go out and sin because they are covered, God is going to deal with that believer, and sometimes His discipline can be very harsh.
Please know that like you, I don't wish to argue here. I just wanted to share my thoughts on sin. We often sin without even realizing we are sinning. Thankfully for all of us, God's grace is greater than our sin!
When asked the greatest commandment, Jesus replied, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Mat 22:37-40.
Maybe it's just me, but I have failed this many times each day of my life!
Jesus ended part of his Sermon on the Mount with these words, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Mat 5:48.
Me, not even close!
But don't loose heart. Jesus also said, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."Joh 10:27-29.
Jesus call these sheep, and me, MY sheep.
"ALL that the Father giveth me SHALL COME TO ME; and him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of ALL which he hath given me I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."Joh 6:37-40.
"And this is the record, that God HATH given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that HATH the Son HATH life; and he that HATH NOT the Son of God HATH NOT life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." 1Jn 5:11-13.
Philippians 1:6 HE WILL PERFORM IT.
I was reading through your post again because you shared some beautiful things. Sometimes as I'm reading through things, certain thoughts come to mind.
I've been thinking about Jesus saying my sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Something that really stands out for me is "I know them." I might say that I know Christ, but what's most important is that He knows me. He knows me! He knows you! He knows all that belong to him.
By Him saying "I know them," wouldn't that pretty much guarantee our salvation no matter what?
In Matthew 7:21-23, it seems as though many who professed to know Christ, even claiming to do many things in His name, and Jesus says depart from me, I NEVER knew you.
Now if He says "I know them," present condition, referring to His sheep, saved believers who belong to Him, how would He ever be able to one day tell us "Depart from me, I never knew you?" If He knows us now, He would never be able to later on say I never knew you!
Thanks so much for the things you shared. Definitely thought provoking. The Lord is good!
No, it's not just you. I often feel the same way. But who are we but broken vessels needing to be mended? I believe that mending (KATARTIDZO) is a lifetime process. God is mending us each and every day. All we have to do is submit to Him and be faithful, as He is faithful in His promises to us.
I'd like to share with you from a biblical Greek perspective what I've learned about loving the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, and mind, and loving our neighbor as ourselves. Our English bible makes it sound like the Lord is commanding us to go out and do these things. But how can we? We can't. That word love is the word AGAPE. In the flesh we cannot produce that type of love. Only God's Spirit can produce that love.
In the Greek text, those two "commandments" are not written in the command form. They are written as statements of fact. What it is telling us is that when God's Spirit comes into our lives, we will love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, and mind. And we will love our neighbor as ourselves. It's a statement of fact.
We often think that God commanded us to go out and love our neighbor. So what do we do? In the flesh, we go out and try to fulfill that love. And then we fail because the flesh cannot produce that type of love. You see, God is not commanding us to go out and love. He's telling us that we will love. It's a statement of fact. It's His Spirit that gives us the capacity to love Him and to love our neighbor.
Yes, Matthew 5:48 says "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." The Greek word for perfect means to function in purpose. You see, Jesus gives the example that God the Father, He makes the rain fall on the just and the unjust. He is no respecter of persons.
So He says that we, under the influence of God's Spirit, should be just like Him, Jesus, because that is what Jesus does. And so He is the representative of God's love.
Thanks for sharing that we are His sheep. Amen!
What a beautiful declaration you gave on Agape "A fruit, something we get by being connected to the vine, It's virtue
John 15:4-5. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for WITHOUT ME YE CAN DO NOTHING. .
This love is our confirmation, " we can know we're in him!!
1 John 3:18-19. My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
John has a lot to say about this, look what's contuary to this.
1 John 3:10-15. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
It's Amazing how we stay away from this topic because it manifest who we are and whether we are on the right side of salvation!!
It says the brothern, I don't think in these verses it's from believers to non believers, I think it's the spirit that bonds the unity.
John 13:34-35. A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. This is the law he said he would put IN man's heart.
Thank you! You touched on my favorite chapter in the entire Bible, John Chapter 15. Years ago in my Koine Greek class, we studied that chapter and the word abide, MENO in Greek.
MENO is used in several places in scripture and it denotes permanency. We permanently are abiding in Him, and He in us.
Yes, Jesus says without me, you cannot do one thing. I think the best way we can express our submission to Him, is to get up in the morning, ready to face our day, and say "Lord, I can't do it. I can't go through this day without you."
I agree that this love, Agape love is our confirmation that He is in us. He gives us the ability to love, and not Human love which is a different word, PHILEO.
Our brothers and sisters in Christ come first, even before ourselves. We can only have that type of love because the creator of the entire universe lives in us, and He is love!
That is also my favorite scripture to take out to the ministry, Send me more insight on that scripture if you will. Thanks,
God bless you.
I am not sure if I can share additional insight with you on the vine and branches. The things you said were pretty much spot on. Your knowledge is pretty solid. All glory to God for that.
There are a few more things in Chapter 15 that I find interesting, things you may already know but I can still share.
Jesus said I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. It's literally I am the genuine vine, and my Father is the earth worker.
That is fascinating to me because having some (very little) knowledge about horticulture, I know that a tree or vine can have many branches attached to it, some living, and some dead.
All these branches are attached to the same vine, and yet some never produce fruit. They are dead branches.
In the O.T., the vine was always used as an example of Israel, especially Isaiah 5:1-7, also known as the song of the vineyard, how that God planted a vineyard and it was the nation Israel.
But they grew wild grapes, and thorns grew and God allowed the vineyard to be overrun by wild animals, which symbolized His judgement against Israel.
So now Jesus is telling His disciples that I am the genuine vine, not the symbolic one of the O.T. He says I am the genuine vine and my Father is the farmer, the earth worker.
There are two phrases Jesus uses that sometimes cause confusion. First of all there's the phrase "in me." He says every branch "in me" that does not bear fruit. That's not a saved person. That's the nation Israel being in God.
The other phrase Jesus uses is "Abide in me." The ones abiding in the vine produce fruit. Then there are the branches that Jesus says are in me. But they don't produce fruit, neither can they.
The branches that are in Christ but are not bearing fruit, they are only physically connected. Internally they are cut off from the life source. The branches that are abiding in Him are the ones that are connected to the internal life source of the vine who is Jesus Christ!
I recently expounded on those verses in that fashion!!
I think we see it also played out in Mathew 21 parable especially in verse 43.
Matthew 21:43 (KJV) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. I take That nation to be the church.
John 15 is centered in so many verses in the Bible. Thank you.
Yes, I do see how Matthew 21:43 ties into this. We have to remember that the Jews were cut off from the tree, and we (Gentiles) were grafted in. Could the nation Jesus is referring to be the church? I think the church is part of it. However, the word used in the Greek text for nation is the word ETHNEI which would be translated "to a people."
Some English translations including the King James say to a nation, while others say to a people. I might be a little bit off on this, but I think the bible only talks about two types of people, Jews, and Gentiles.
Anyway, those were very strong words Jesus used in Matthew 21:43. Can you imagine what the Jews must have been thinking? He says it is going to be taken away from you, and the vineyard is going to be given to the Gentiles. The Jews considered the Gentiles unclean. Gentiles were even called dogs. And now here's Jesus telling them that it will be taken from them and given to the Gentiles. I'm sure that didn't sit too well with them!
Paul says in Romans Chapter 11 that we are grafted into the vineyard. But that's so the Jews would be jealous because we have their Messiah.
Paul also says in Romans Chapter 11 that when Christ comes at His second coming, those Jews who are alive on the earth, he says all of Israel will be saved.
They will then own Him as their Messiah. But until then, it's been taken away.
john 10 seems to sum it up, Church/people,
John 10:16 (KJV) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
The plan was revealed in the old testament but hidden to their eyes and ears.
There's a lot said when the Lord says in
John 10:4. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
We're not his sheep BECAUSE we follow him, we follow him BECAUSE we are his sheep! ""WE hear his voice "" slight difference in grammar, big difference in meaning.
At night all the shepherds in the area would bring their sheep to be kept in a protected area , where they are mixed with all the other sheep, " they didn't brand the sheep " the next day the shepherd would go in and call their sheep, they hear his voice, they follow him.
"We're not his sheep BECAUSE we follow him, we follow him BECAUSE we are his sheep!"
I like that! There is so much symbolism in John Chapter 10. There are eight terms used that we should all be familiar with that represent or symbolize something: sheepfold, The Porter (Doorkeeper), the door, the sheep, the shepherd, the hireling, thieves, and lastly robbers. They all represent something.
I agree with what you shared about the sheep being all put together in one place at night. There could have been hundreds if not thousands of sheep enclosed together in one place, and multiple shepherds each owning a portion of these sheep.
It fascinates me that each shepherd, one at a time, would come to the door and call for his sheep, and out of the many that were in there, only his would come out. None of the other sheep would come out.
In Palestine, the shepherds would call for their sheep. That's it! They didn't have to herd them from behind with horses and dogs to get them to where they needed to be. Instead of the shepherd herding the sheep from behind, he was ahead of the sheep and they followed him just by hearing his voice.
Our proper position in Christ is always behind Him. We don't walk beside Him, and we don't walk ahead of Him. Our proper position will always be behind Him. That's why He gave us the command to follow Him.
Just like the sheep in Palestine who heard the voice of their shepherd and followed him, we also as sheep hear the voice of our shepherd, and we follow Him, behind Him!
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. First Timothy 3:15
Perhaps we agree in this matter, it is hard to tell.
Carleton
Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Luke 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Thank you!
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