Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Dawn Dodgen on Numbers 8
    If Cain is Adam's son, then why is Cain's genealogy different than Adam's, and in John 8:44 Christ, speaking to the scribes and Pharisees, "Ye are of your father the devil.... he was a murderer from the beginning...."? Eve was "beguiled" - (Gr. exapatao) wholly seduce by the serpent, or Satan.

    Cain, in God's Word, is the first murderer.
  • SkipVought - in Reply on Numbers 8
    And by the way, Cain's descendants ALL died in The Great Flood as did all but Noah and his descendants.
  • Dawn Elizabeth Dodgen - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Cain's descendants did not all die in Noah's flood.-

    "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female." Genesis 6:19

    "OF EVERY LIVING THING of ALL FLESH, two of EVERY SORT shalt thou bring into the ark..."

    - Kenite's were also on the ark. How did descendants of Cain, the Kenites, wind up in 1 Chronicles (& elsewhere)?

    "...Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God." Genesis 6:9

    Noah and his family were the only "perfect" in breed/pedigree. All the races were created on the 6th day of God's creation ( Gen. 1:26-27). If Noah's family were the only people to be saved, then how do we account for all the races we still have today? Please don't say it's because Canaan was cursed ( Gen. 9:25). Canaan was cursed by Noah, not God; and Noah cursing Canaan would in NO way create another race - absolutely biologically impossible.
  • SkipVought - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Dawn,

    "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, EIGHT SOULS were saved by water." 1Pe 3:20

    Noah, his three sons and each of their wives: EIGHT SOULS. No "Kenites!" Genesis 6:19 is not referring to humans. You forgot to include the next verse.

    Yes, Noah was uncorrupted in his genealogy, which is why the rest of mankind was destroyed in the flood.

    There is one race, humans, where skin shade and other features were built into the our DNA. The "races" resulted from the separation of people groups by language and subsequent migration at Babel in Genesis 11, in order to force mankind to "fill the earth." I'm not tying any particular "race" to Canaan.
  • SkipVought - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Dawn,

    Jesus stated, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."Joh 5:39 and of Jesus it was recorded, "And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself." Luk 24:27

    There is a genealogy of Cain and his descendants, BUT this does NOT pertain to the Messiah. And there are other short genealogies in The Scriptures but they are recorded for other reasons. The MAIN genealogy, interestingly recorded centuries before Jesus and some of it not in The Scriptures but assiduously recorded by faithful Jewish scribes, was the Messianic genealogy through King David and his royal lineage.

    There is absolutely no evidence of the serpent seed. The serpent was embodied by Lucifer who was the murderer and lier from the beginning, "that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world."

    When Jesus stated, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."Joh 8:44 He was not saying that they could trace their physical lineage back to the Devil any more than believers could trace their physical lineage back to God. EVERYONE's physical lineage goes back to Adam.

    Spiritually, we are either of God or of Satan.
  • Dawn Elizabeth Dodgen - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Of course Christ didn't descend from Cain - Christ came umbilical cord to umbilical cord from Seth. This fact I will never budge from.
  • Ron - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Dawn

    Cain and Able were the sons of Adam, Genesis 4:1-2 Cain killed his brother, Genesis 4:8. Cain was banished from the face of the earth (Eden) and the presence of the LORD Genesis7 9:16. Abel was to be the righteous line to the Messiah Jesus Christ.

    Genesis 4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

    God gave us the genealogy of Cain but it has no consequence on the line to Jesus. The genealogy in the Bible from Adam does not include Cain and Able, it also does not list the firstborn as some say, it covers the righteous line to Jesus. There are many teachings out there that we must be careful. We must test the spirits for there are many contrary to the word of God. Like the verse, you listed John 8:44 Here is another.

    1John.3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

    These verses by themselves may hint at what you said of Satan and Eve but, this does not mean they are from the physical seed of Satan (devil). Cain was not of the seed of the devil, it is saying if you choose evil, not righteousness you are of the devil. We are either sons and daughters of God or Satan (devil). You can paint a very deceptive picture with one or two verses.

    1John.3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    Test the spirits, if we cannot find scripture to back up what we hear or read RUN!!!

    2 Corinthians 11:14-1514 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

    God bless you, Ron
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Hi Dawn,

    Let's put John 8:44 in its context.

    John 8:42-47. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

    Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

    Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

    Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

    He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

    Verses 42 and 43 Jesus is saying if God were their father they would love him and understand his speech.

    Verse 44 through 47 he gives the contrast between the father of truth and the father of lies,

    The devil is the father of lies and much more. He is the spiritual father to all who reject Christ.

    And as a side note: Anyone tries to add to the finish work of the cross whether elements from the works of the law or works of their own falls in the category of Satans children as well because they will have fallen from grace.
  • Dawn Dodgen - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Your reply is helpful, however, I still question why Cain is not in Adam's lineage, and vise versa.
  • Paul S Selchow - in Reply on Numbers 8
    The genealogy listed lists only the line of Christ. It lists from Adam to Jesus Christ. Cain would not be listed by the gospel writers as he wasn't part of the line. It went from Adam to Seth etc. The decedents of Seth are referred to the sons of God, and the decedents of Cain were referred to as the sons of men. ( Gen 6:2) There were, since that first generation, 2 lines, one was God's people, one was the followers of satan (or those who didn't follow God).
  • Sacha - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Hi Dawn ,Cains geneology is in Genesis ch 4 v 16 onwards ,it probably goes up to the flood .
  • Dawn Elizabeth Dodgen - in Reply on Numbers 8
    But Cain's genealogy is separate from Adam's genealogy.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Hi Dawn,

    Genesis 5. Genealogy

    Here's why Cain is not in the Genealogy, 1st.

    Genesis 4:11, And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;....12...13...

    14: BEHOLD, THOU HAST DRIVEN ME OUT THIS DAY FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH; AND-

    """FROM THY FACE SHALL I BE HID""";

    2nd.

    The first 5 chapters was on the creation the next section is on Noah and the flood, The Emphasis on this Genealogy is on Adam, " The first man" to Noah.

    Hebrew:

    Transliteration: 'dm

    Pronunciation: aw-dawm'

    Definition: The same as H120; {Adam} the name of the first {man} also of a place in Palestine: - Adam.

    KJV Usage: Adam(9x).

    In the next division in Genesis you see a Genealogy in Ch 10 he does the same thing, you see a Genealogy of Noah with certain characters like Nimrod highlighted setting up the brief story of him in ch 11 before he gives us the story of Abraham. Again you see the family of Abraham listed as you go to ch 12 with the story of Abraham focusing just on lineage of the preceding character.

    Here's another example Matthew 1:1-2 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

    Abraham begat "ISAAC"; and Isaac begat "JACOB"; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

    Have you noticed no mention of Ishmael or Essau?

    Because the focus is on Jesus to king David. this Genealogy goes through Solomon but the Genealogy in Luke goes through Nathan, One giving the legal line to the thrown and the other giving the blood line to the thrown.

    I hope that clears this up for you because I don't know why one would suggest that God would bless a biological birth from Satan, Only God can permit Life.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Hi Dawn,

    Genesis 4:1 (KJV) And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
  • Dawn Elizabeth Dodgen - in Reply on Numbers 8
    So why, in Gen. 3:13, "the serpent beguiled me..." - Strong's Concordance: seduced.

    Gen. 3:15, "I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between THY SEED and HER SEED....."

    Gen. 3:16, "I (GOD speaking to Eve) will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception..."

    Adam didn't "know" his wife until Gen. ch.4.
  • Darren Croft - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Dawn Elizabeth Dodgen,

    Adam bit the apple too, yet he didn't know the serpent (a spirit). It is sin that beguiles us, and satan is the father of them. satan was just making his rounds in the garden to stem the evil tide. One solid characteristic about satan is he can't create anything, he can't breathe life into anything, he can't even produce evil unless the letter lets (God).

    2 Thessalonians 2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way."

    satan (spirit) has dominion over the flesh, not our DNA.
  • Dawn Dodgen - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Lol - an apple.

    What was satan? - he was a cherub, an angel.

    What did God say in Gen. 1:26? - "Let us make man in OUR image..." - I believe God was talking to the angels meaning the angels are in the form like a man. After all, the angels who appeared to Lot were as men; the angel, Gabriel appeared as a man. We can't leave out the fact that the fallen angels ("sons of God" - Gen. 6:2) were able to impregnate women - that's where the giants, or the nephilim*, came from. They had to be in the form of men. Satan, the serpent, would also be able to wholly seduce/beguile Eve and conceive a child with her.

    As for Adam taking a 'bite from the apple' - it isn't specific, but I believe satan, who has as the power, given to him by God, to do wonderous things ( Matthew 24:24), could beguile Adam as well - perhaps by appearing as a female or even a homosexual act.

    There shouldn't be any question that both Adam and Eve covered their private parts with fig leaves, because they both knew they were "naked." Leviticus ch.18 is very clear about the meaning of naked (nakedness).

    *From Appendix 25 From The Companion Bible - E.W. Bullinger

  • Rightly Dividing The Word of God - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Study a bit more thoroughly. Use the reference columns in a good study Bible.

    Satan was a covering cherub. HE WAS CREATED. His job was to lead praise and worship. He was jeweled. Well he got to liking it and wanted the praise for himself.

    As soon as he coveted it, He started war in heaven. Type that in the search box. Look in Revelation.

    Finally God tells Michael to hurl Satan to earth; with the 1/3 angels that followed Satan.

    Folks. In Genesis 1:1

    The First thing God did (the Godhead)

    Was CREATE TIME. The Godhead lives inside of earth time; AND they live outside of time.

    Then God purposed. Jesus the Word of God spoke it ( John 1:1). The Holy Spirit performed what was spoken.

    Before anything occurred in Genesis, GOD SAW IT.

    Adam and Eve were spirit, soul and flesh: 3 part humans. God gave them FREE WILL.

    God has PERFECT WILL

    Satan has EVIL WILL

    MAN (and woman) have FREE WILL. They had power to choose.

    When they disobeyed Gods Word NOT to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (it's written): they used their free will, and died spiritually. They were flesh and soul. Separated from God.

    The Godhead immediately cast them out of the Garden so they would not eat of the tree of LIFE (eternal life). The tree of Life was moved to heaven (see Revelation).

    God then killed an animal (blood sacrifice for sin) and made them clothes. Adam failed. In the fullness of TIME, Jesus came as 2nd Adam to redeem mankind and once and for all time pay for the sins of every human; born and unborn.

    For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten son ...

    Stop making up stuff about this that only confuses people about the Genesis stories. Get a good study Bible with CENTER of each page, reference columns to other passages that give additional information. It has little abc's imbedded in the scriptures. They point to prophesies, go forward to the New Testament or backwards.

    You gotta have it.

    Mishael
  • Dawn Dodgen - in Reply on Numbers 8
    It's a sad thing to know so many Christians, who've sat every Sunday morning in a church pew, can be so lost - being taught man's traditions rather than the true Word of God. They haven't been taught the Key of David is knowing satan comes first - BEFORE Christ, and telling everyone that he is going to rapture them out of here; we learn in Ezekiel ch.13 that God is AGAINST that - yet people grab on to it like a security blanket. Also, to know who the Kenite's are.

    This will be my last post/reply, and I ask for no more posts/replies to me as I am not the one who is confused. I will keep all of you, though, in my prayers.

    By the way, I do have a great Bible - it's called The King James (Version) Bible. It's the ONLY Bible I study with.
  • Carleton - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Well, frog and toad discussed and acted on that one last cookie, from their example I post.

    Accountability by brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus has a lot of value.

    Carleton
  • Dawn Dodgen - in Reply on Numbers 8
    I understand what it says in Gen. 4:1; my original question is beyond that.

    As a nurse (& a woman), I know about superfetation - twins, such as Cain and Abel, conceived at different times, &/or in their case by different fathers, Adam and the serpent.

    This is how I'm understanding why Cain isn't listed in Adam's lineage - Cain, having his own ancestry listed in Gen. 4:17 (& the following verses); Adam's ancestry is listed in Gen. ch.5, and Cain isn't in it. (Please see my original question above)

    I don't mean to be difficult (lol); this is just a question I've had for a very long time that hasn't been clearly answered for me. Being new to this King James Bible website, and seeing that there is a place to ask Bible questions, I needed to give it a shot.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Hi Dawn, So you said "since this is a place to ask questions so you decided to give it a shot", So how about we first deal with Gen. 4:1-2. That verse is literal and quite direct.

    Genesis 4:1. And "ADAM" knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, ""I HAVE GOTTEN A MAN FROM THE LORD."" This phrase defines Cain

    In verse 2 it says "And she (AGAIN) bare his brother Abel". NO TWINS HERE!! Separate birth.

    This could have happened several years later as far as we know.

    when it comes to child birth the scripture is careful to mention twins if they're present as it did Essau and Jacob.

    Genesis 4:2 And she ""AGAIN"" bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

    You stated Eve was Beguiled "sexually seduced" by Satan.

    That would be way out of context considering she was answering a direct question from the Lord!

    Genesis 3:13. And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, ""AND I DID EAT""

    How was she beguiled? By leading her astray from God's command.

    If you take this definition below of beguiled and what happens in Gen 3. it's clear we have a picture of deception!! How did you get sexually seduction out of that and disregard Genesis 4:1?

    Hebrew:

    Transliteration: nsh'

    Pronunciation: naw-shaw'

    Definition: A primitive root; to lead {astray} that {is} (mentally) to {delude} or (morally) to seduce: - {beguile} {deceive} X {greatly} X utterly.

    KJV Usage: deceive(12x), greatly(1x), beguiled me(1x), seize(1x), utterly(1x).

    Occurs: 16

    In verses: 15

    Besides it could have been a 100 years between Genesis 3:13 and Genesis 4:1.

    Please give us your interpretation of Genesis 4:1 since it is scripture we cannot discard it.

    And I will deal with the Genealogy. Genesis 4:1. And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten ""A"" man ( not twins) from the LORD. Waiting on your response.
  • Dawn Elizabeth Dodgen - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Gen. 3:13

    Beguiled - nasha (Hb), naw-shaw - a prime. root; to lead astray, i.e. (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce:-beguile, deceive, x greatly, x utterly.

    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible

    Gen. 4:1

    Again - yacaph (Hb), yaw-saf - a prime. root; to add or augment (often adv. to continue to do a thing)

    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible
  • Dawn Elizabeth Dodgen - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Gen. 4:2

    AGAIN, in the Hebrew manuscripts is YACAPH, yaw-saf - this means to continue, proceed, etc.

    Also, it is evident that Cain and Abel came to the age of accountability at the same time, both bringing their offerings to the Lord.
  • Darren Croft - in Reply on Numbers 8
    If the serpent impregnated Eve, the devil would have scolded Jesus Christ about being 'of the devil'. He didn't. There is no mention of this in the Bible. It never happened.
  • Dawn Elizabeth Dodgen - in Reply on Numbers 8
    What?? Why would satan "scolded" Christ if Eve was impregnated by him (satan)? That would be like the man sitting across from me on the bus scolding me for my stepfather impregnating my mom - it makes no sense.
  • Darren Croft - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Inheritance is in the genes.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Numbers 8
    Dawn

    Genesis 4:2. I don't think it shows they came to the age of accountability at the same time, I believe Cain was offering the fruit of the ground before Abel reached the age of accountability.

    The fruit of a cursed ground instead of a blood sacrifice. The issue was that God didn't require that of Cain.

    When Abel came along he did what was required.
  • Studying on this website - in Reply on Numbers 8
    What is the meaning of beguiled?

    verb (used with object), beguiled, beguiling. to influence by trickery, flattery, etc.; mislead; delude. to take away from by cheating or deceiving (usually followed by of): to be beguiled of money.

    Eve did not have intercourse with the SERPENT. He was jeweled and pretty but he was not a man

    Before anyone says it.... Cain was not satans kid.

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  • Darren Croft - in Reply on Numbers 8
    The genealogy from Genesis 5:1 to Genesis 6:9 is Noah's. Since he descends from Seth, only Seth is mentioned. He doesn't mention either Cain or Abel directly. He only notes that Adam "had sons and daughters" to let us know that Adam and Eve had more than just the three sons mentioned by name in Adam's records. In every generation there is likely to have been multiple siblings, but only the one that directly leads to Noah is mentioned each time.



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