Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • MICHAEL PEREZ on Romans 8:9
    Romans 8 VERSE 9 refers to Acts 5 VERSE 32 ..and we are his wittness of these things ; and so also is the Holy Ghost, whom God has given to them that obey him...

    The problem today are Pastors who do not have the Holy Spirit and preconcieved ideas of the infilling of the Holy Spirit referring to the fulness of God seperating the experience what Jesus told Nicodemus what he have and must do to enter into the Kingdom of God.....

    Many preach the wrong context of the experience saying sleaking in tongues is only a gift and Mark 16 says beleivers would speak in tongues
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Why don't we covet what's said to be the best gift? " Charity" Is it because it is as not noticeable and unique?

    1 Corinthians 13:2-5, 13. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

    And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,

    """and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing"""

    Should Charity be accompanied with these other gifts?

    Here is where I believe Charity separates it self from speaking in tongues, some of those who do seems to feel they are ahead of the pack.

    (( Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up ))

    Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

    And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

    I'm not sure they "always" confirm salvation.

    Does The scripture says you know them by their fruit, are you Know them by their gifts?

    Matthew 7:22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    And we know the story of Balaam.

    I don't think the gifts of the spirit do you any good with out the fruit of the spirit.

    Do we always exercise these gifts and stay humble?

    If it takes an experience for us to have faith is that really faith?
  • MICHAEL PEREZ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    1 Corinthians 14 V 2 ..

    For he that speaketh in and unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him: howebeit in the sprirt he speaketh mysteries
  • Charles R Peek - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    1 Corinthians 14:1-4 "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: (If it is an unknown tongue (language), it is reasonable to assume that men would not understand it, but God understands all languages, so a person speaking in an unknown tongue would be speaking to God. for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;(showing off) but he that prophesieth edifieth the church." Tongues are for them that believe not.
  • MICHAEL PEREZ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Hello Spencer

    You have gone to great lengths to explain why you do not have to speak in tongues

    imagine this you speak in english and you go to greece and they say you have to speak in greek

    what do you say to the greeks...
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Michael

    This conversation started on another thread between me and someone else, Our focus was on charity, I didn't then and don't now care to put a lot of energy to the everlasting tongues debate. It seems

    you used that opportunity to open up a dialog on the subject go right ahead,

    you don't need me to engage. All we did was quoted Paul on that initial thread. You seem to have a issue with Paul's writings. so why don't you explain the verses in your own words. 1 Corinthians 12:27-31. Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

    And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

    Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

    Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

    But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

    1 Corinthians 13:8-10. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

    For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

    But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

    1 Corinthians 14:5. I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

    1 Corinthians 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 1 Corinthians 14:7-12 (KJV) And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

    For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
  • MICHAEL PEREZ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Spencer the verse where you mentioned you would get a translator is why when you receive the Holy Spirit you speak in tongues ..God translator .....
  • MICHAEL PEREZ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Hello Spencer

    When you pray in and unknown tonigue you are speaking to God not men and its not the natural man praying its the spirit of God the Holy Sprirt because it knows what God requires of us when we pray .Paul aslo explains that speaking to the natural man in tongues does not benefit them because they would not understand only God does ....and unless you have been in a pentecostal church that uses the sprirtual gifts rightly you will never understand how its used in the church.....Many pentecostal church never use the gifts because they have previeved ideas how its done ......
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Michael,

    You seem to believe in your own doctrine in that only those who can speak in tongues have received the Holy Ghost. I am sorry to tell you this but you are wrong. Others have posted much Scripture on this that you seem to want to ignore. Nit picking verses like Mark 16 and thinking Jude 1:20 is the same as speaking in tongues. Seeming to have more zeal for different tongues than the teachings of Christ and the Word of God in the Holy Scriptures. God knows when we pray to Him no matter what, of the thousands, of languages it is in. God reads hearts not just an angelic tongue.

    . 2 Corinthians 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

    Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

    Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

    But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    God Bless those who have the gift of speaking in unknown tongues. Like I stated before I see no use for this gift and am not interested in asking for it. My Father and Lord Jesus Christ know when I am speaking/praying to them.

    I wish you well on your journey. God Bless.
  • Charles R Peek - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Tongues were a sign gift to the Jews, because their Nation started under Moses with sign and wanders; miracles of all sorts. The tongues sign was to bear witness to the Gospel for the Jews (John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." So if someone was speaking in tongues today, would they be speaking to Jews; for the Gentiles don't need a sing?
  • Michael Perez - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Hello Richard

    if you had read what I have being replying to Spencer with you would of notice I like to use scripture because

    Jesus said every word that proceeds from the mouth of God and the Word of God also says if another angel brings another gospel let him be accursed..

    I particularly use scripture for one reason its God you answer to not me .the word also tells me not to add or takeaway from the word of God it can cost you eternal life..

    ACTS CHAPTER 2 Says ....

    And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak in other tongues as the SPIRIT GAVE them the utterance..

    And spiritually anyone who speaks in tongues has their own tongue no one has the same...
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Hello Michael,

    I have been reading all your comments you have been posting here about "tongues". I see you are picking Scriptures and portraying them to be "only" about speaking in unknown tongues of the Holy Ghost. Like Isaiah 33:19. It says "Thou shalt NOT see a fierce people, a people of a deeper speech than thou canst perceive; of a stammering tongue, that thou canst not understand". The word "stammering" here is the Hebrew word "la ag" Strongs number H3932. Meaning "to deride or speak unintelligibly" or "to mock or ridicule". This is not speaking of the "tongues" of the Holy Ghost.

    I don't want to argue with you Michael. If you want to believe that "only" those who can speak in an unknown "tongue" has received the Holy Ghost that is your belief. Like I stated before. To me with my experiences and understanding this is false. I was lead to reply to you.

    I'll end with one question. The numerous times through the Gospels our Lord Jesus Christ prayed to the Father, as the very in depth prayer in John 17. Do you believe our Lord was not praying to our Father in the Holy Ghost because it was not in an unknown tongue?

    Thank you for your answer. Again I don't want to quarrel. Especially with another believer in Christ so this will be my last statement on this subject.

    Have a wonderful day. God Bless.
  • MICHAEL PEREZ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Hello Richard

    1CORINTHIANS 14VERSE 2 it tells you when speak in and an unknown speaketh not unto men , but into God ....

    I cannot believe what i am reading christians Paul saying why we speak in an unknown tongue saying we are speaking to God and you reject it ..I do not have words for the sorrow in my heart how so many christains on here find a way to tell God they do not want to speak to him in his spritual tongue ..actually denying the power of Gods existience
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Michael,

    So no answer to my one question? Thank you.

    I never said I "reject" speaking in tongues of the Holy Ghost. I said I have no interest in this gift. Because I have relationship with the Father and speak/pray to Him in Spirit. I said God Bless them that have the gift of speaking in tongues of the Holy Ghost. You are twisting my words.

    As it shows again in your previous post. Your zeal seems to be for a tongue. My zeal is for the love of God and to love one another as Jesus Christ taught us. To produce good fruit of the Spirit and do the will of our Father in Heaven.

    So you believe in 1 Corinthians 14:2. So do I. What about 1 Corinthians 12:3-11. That states there are diversities in gifts of the Spirit. Read 1 Corinthians 12 again.

    Are you saying that I, and others here, are "denying the power of Gods existence"? You know nothing about me and my relationship with the Father. What you are doing is damaging peoples faith and belief in God. Because not everyone who receives the Holy Ghost, and is born again in the Spirit, speaks in unknown tongues.

    You can keep condemning us all you want but it shall not change the truth. You shall be held accountable for your words. Just as we all shall.

    John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

    Jesus Christ professing that the words He spake were spirit. Yet not of an unknown tongue.

    Peace be with you.
  • Garnetta Darton - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Richard in Christ, God bless you.

    "Speaking in tongues is a special subject but this is what I found in my bible"

    I Corinthians 14: 2-4, (kjv)

    2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

    3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

    4 He that speaketh in an unkown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

    Proverbs 4:7 (kjv)

    Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

    My personal testimony,

    The saint that have the gift to prophesy hopefully there is someone in church have the gift of interpretation. Or the Saint could bring an interpreter with them.

    May God bless the reading and edifying of the word of God. Amen
  • MICHAEL PEREZ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Hello Richard

    If you say you pray spiritually how do you pray to God who is a spirit ? ...1CORINTHIANS14 V14 THE WORD OF GOD says when i pray in and unknown tongue my spirit prayeth but my understanding is unfruitful..

    How do you pray in the spirit according to whats written in the WORD OF GOD ....thats God requires from us
  • Chris - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Michael, I've been following this thread, & as Richard has said, "it seems to be going nowhere". If may also ask you a personal question: when you pray, do you only use the Gift of other Tongues (an unlearned language) that you believe you have received, or do you also pray in another (learned) language?

    And one more question: I think you believe that every person who says he is born again & received the Holy Spirit, must show first evidence of speaking in other tongues - correct me if I'm wrong please. And if so, then all the believers in the Book of Acts & in the early Church (from Pentecost onwards) must have spoken in tongues as first evidence. Then why should the Apostle Paul ask, "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"

    He clearly shows that in the Church, just as not everyone can claim to be an apostle or teacher or miracle worker, so to, not all have the gift of Tongues, of healing, or of interpretation. If you believe you have received the Gift, then use it for the Glory of God & for building up of His Church, just as we who have not received it, use our other gifts for those purposes. If what you have been taught instructs you that everyone in the Church must have the gift of Tongues, then there is abundant proof of the many mightily used of God in both prayer & ministry to others, that have never received that Gift but are doing their work in the Love & Power of the Spirit. Does this not tell us something: that maybe the evidence of the Spirit within is not just in Tongues, but in many other ways that God chooses to use His children for His Glory?
  • MICHAEL PEREZ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Hello Chris

    WHen i wrote about healing Jesus layed hands on the sick to heal them and on the dead to raise them back to life

    and the blind man and the leper etc ...

    The Bible is not written to the understanding of natural man even though many claim they understand it if they did we would all agree with the Word of God proving God right only everyone wants to be right ....

    I use scripture makes what people write accountable to God with what they reply and say ....To change or add to the gospel means you add the plagues of the bible to your life and takes you out of the book of life ...Thats why i wrote i agree with whats written that Jesus said we should do to be saved ...

    My 1 Favourite scriptures is what Jesus said ....John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and i know them, and they follow me
  • Chris - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Thank you Michael for your two replies, but you haven't answered my questions:

    1. when you pray, do you use the Gift of Tongues (speaking in an unlearned language) or do you pray in a known language?

    2. how do you understand 1 Corinthians 12:28-30, & specifically in relation to Tongues?
  • MICHAEL PEREZ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Hello Chris

    Who can pray better on our behalf then the Holy Spirit ..God is a spirit thats all i know ..and when i pray in tongues i know i am in the presence of God and all things possible to God ...

    What i have learnt on here is this ...( people not christians telling God what they know and not willing to learn what God has asked us to do ... )

    God set out a precept in his word that God inspired men to write so we could learn of God and what he wanted us to do...through the Holy Spirit who would guide us in all truth ...

    What more can i say when in the... Book oF Jude tells us to pray always in the Holy Ghost building up our most Holy Faith praying in the Holy Ghost and in

    1CORINTHIANS: 14v 14 says .. When i pray in and unknown tongue my Spirit prayeth ...

    I thank God he asked me if i was willing to learn of him stepped into his understanding of the Gospel not what i was taught and have seen many miracles in my life where i should be dead ...

    Example of one ...

    i own a black SS ute called a Brock special Limited edition with a 5.7 chevy V8 in it ...I use to drive in the country area hitting large pot holes and corrugated roads not knowing in doing so it had caused the bracket to fracture that holds the steering arm on to the point is was coming off .one day my friend said to me never drive faster then your angel and to slow down and that i am not to go back into the country for work ... those words saved my life ...the following day my steering rack fell off the K frame of the car that holds the steering arm on ....
  • Connie - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Michael . The smallest of all three me"s

    is in my youngest memories..

    In the green pastures i will forever find her there ...

    Beside the still waters she plays without a care...

    By her tiny right hand God led her to this place...

    He let her little body fall

    And set a choice all Gods children face...

    No words were spoken by her Heavenly Father that fleshy ears would hear...

    Her soul was gathered in God's love that innocently was without fear...

    He gave her the choice of to live or to die..

    She chose to live and she told her Heavenly Father why..

    She knew by death ... here she would remain..

    In the presence of God's love .. no words can explain..

    She answered

    "" i would like to live so i can play""

    God restored her soul. By his gift of life. ...is the very breath she breathed..

    Where she had fallen as dead upon the grass ..

    Her first death has come to pass...

    God opened her eyes

    She was able to see...

    There was no veil to divide....

    God opened her ears to hear.. upon her heart he wrote his law for her life she would abide..

    He planted a seed and its hidden in her heart...

    Such a gift found in the words she sews....

    In Gods love she continues to grow..

    this is part of a book of remembrance written and preserved as a testimony of the living God . It was written by living hands to share the love of God.
  • MICHAEL PEREZ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Hello Chris...

    1 ) To answer your first question i only pray in tongues and find i am put in the presence of God when i do

    an amazing experience to be in God presence on your knees.



    2 ) Book of Jude verse 20 says....( answer to 1 Corinthians 28 to 30)

    But ye, beloved, building up your most Holy Faith. praying in the Holy

    Ghost, ( and the reason why we pray in tongues )

    1 CORINTHIANS14 verse 39 says ...

    Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak in

    tongues...







    2 ) 1 Corinthians 20 to 30 ...
  • Chris - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Thank you Michael. Well, if God gave me the Gift of other Tongues, I would still feel inadequate in my prayer life, as, there are so many things to pray for: for family members, friends, the Church, the world, our governments, etc., etc. I would be torn if I couldn't pray in English for these things but only speak to God in a language I don't understand. How would I even know what I'm asking God for on behalf of these things, if I don't know what I'm saying? Or maybe, I shouldn't be praying for these things & just assume that everything is covered by using an unlearned language.

    1 Corinthians 14:39 does say "forbid not to speak with tongues", but does that mean that everybody has that gift, or does it mean that if you have that gift, then you should use it for God's Glory? Whereas, 1 Corinthians 12:30: "Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?", seems to show us that Paul recognized that not all Spirit-filled believers, spoke in Tongues, nor can they heal, interpret, etc. There appears a contradiction of Paul's message, if one is to believe that both Scriptures mean the same thing.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    My good brother Chris,

    As I was reading today and came across these verses I thought of you and about understanding our prayers to the Lord.

    (1 Corinthians 14:14-15

    14
    For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

    15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

    Hope all is well. God Bless.
  • Don - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    The gift of tongues never involves gibberish sounds or chanting. A person that receives the gift of tongues will speak in a recognizable, known language that that person did not know and previously could not understand. Examples are given to us in Acts 2 4-8 God bless
  • MICHAEL PEREZ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Hello Don

    I replied to you on another posting but it was not placed up on here for you because i wrote to all on the heading or any one to view truth is always hidden when it comes down to making people accountable.....what has amazed me here is no one knows their bible according to the power of God and what it means to have have the fullness of God...

    The Holy Ghost is a Spirit and he is the intercessor who prays on our behalf in the unknown tongue everyone finds hard to accept because they cannot understand what the Holy Spirit prays on our behalf neither do i because the Bible tells us it peays for us about things we do or have done to bring change to grow in faith all i know is when i have pray i feel alot of Joy and peace and i feel right with God and feel full of spiritual Power..

    John chapter 3 says it all and the scripture is not taught right about it pastors telling people you acn receive the Holy Spirit without speaking in tongues it like saysing you can drive a car with out fuel or these days an electric car without power....
  • MICHAEL PEREZ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Hello Don i wrote a reply to you ans all who have joined in the conversation it has not been put up
  • Michael Perez - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    This is for all...

    I am sadden as Jesus would be and God the father to see people explain away what God says we can build up our most Holy Faith before God the father being prepared spiritually to be with him...praying in the Holy Ghost

    You have all talked about love charity not understanding the real fullness of God by the Holy Spirit if you all did you would know that the fulness of God that the unknown tongue we pray in is the Holy Spirit praying on behalf of you or us to God the Father the intercessor that gives us hope..

    God said he has not given us the Spirit of Fear but of Power Love and sound mind....Fulness Of God..

    To tell people its not necessary makes you answerable to God for blasphemy denying the and preaching the gospel unfaithfully..

    You have all said what i say not what Jesus said the experience we would have that God The Father would give the Holy Spirit to those who would obey him to enter into the Kingdom of God.

    A man called Nicodemus asked Jesus John C3 what he must do to to be saved..

    The mighty rushing wind referrers to the infilling of the Holy Spirit ..the sound referrers to a voice given to indenitify you can speak in a spiritual tongue to God .....
  • MICHAEL PEREZ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Hello chris ...

    many today past and present have been told you can receive the holy without speaking in tongues

    and many believe you can because its what they have been told not experienced ... like the people who fall backwards they call it being slayed in the spirit ) bible says the enemies of god fell backwards .....

    1 Corinthians 14 v 2 to me says it all ..no one seems to have read what it says ...

    it says : for he that speaketh in and unknown speakth not unto men, but god: for no man understandeth him, howbeit in the spirit speaketh mysteries....

    1 Corinthians 14 v 14 says ...for if i pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfriutful

    regarding the fullness of god i relate it to buying a new car if you do not have the key given to you cannot drive off with the car , at the turn of the key opens the power from the battery to start the car

    jesus was the fullness of god nothing less at the time of need he used the apporiate gift ..that was required ..like healing - if someone was sick he prayed for them ..if someone had died he raised them back to life etc
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Romans 8:9
    Michael,

    Please. This conversation does not seem to be going anywhere. I already said I was done posting but when someone asks me a question I feel to answer. As I have already answered this to your question of "how do you pray in the Holy Ghost". You gave no post to what I replied. Only "you agree with the Word of God".

    Do you not believe that the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God, comes into you and sups with you when you are born of the Spirit? There is no need to speak in unknown tongues to pray in the Holy Ghost. God knows every single word out of your mouth, every single thought in your mind, and knows our hearts. He knows everything about all of us and better than we know ourselves.

    You say you agree with with the Word of God and what's written. Although only the verses that you like to mold to fit with your beliefs. As I have posted numerous verses from the Holy Bible and questions about them and have not received any answers from you.

    Again Michael. If you don't believe I have received the Holy Ghost just because I cant murmur an unknown language. Like I said before you are wrong. I know and say in truth I have been Blessed to received the Holy Ghost because of what has happened in my life. All glory and thanks to our Father in Heaven through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    (1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:

    God Bless you.


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