Sandra, this matter of homosexuality has been condemned by God throughout the Scriptures. Even before God gave the Law to Israel, which included this matter ( Leviticus 18:22 & verse 23 for bestiality), God had pronounced judgement against Sodom & Gomorrah (Genesis chapters 18 & 19) for their many wicked deeds which included homosexuality. Then in the New Testament of the Bible ( 1 Corinthians 6:9,10), the apostle Paul speaks of the many who can never enter God's Kingdom. But if these people acknowledge that what they do, is sin against God & sincerely repent & turn away from it, then they can truly be forgiven & brought into a holy relationship with God.
As in generations gone by, much of what the Bible calls SIN, is regarded by people today as of no consequence. So if engaging in homosexual activities gives someone happiness & companionship then why should anyone condemn them, is what they say. But God Who made us, made us male & female & that this union within marriage would reflect God's plan for mankind & be the means of a loving, fruitful relationship that would produce offspring as a result of that love. Any departure from this plan is wrong & God will deal with all those that do it.
So what about the homosexual saying that that is how I am from birth? Or he becomes one out of his choice or because of a devastating upbringing? Then what about the kleptomaniac who can't help but steal or the prolific liar & deceiver who gives no second thought to his sin? All this is sin & must be acknowledged as such & to be turned away from. Yes, it will be hard for these to exercise discipline & do what is necessary to depart from evil, but when one turns to Jesus & is made new, God's Power will rest upon him & he can be healed.
When I see a homosexual, I see a person whom God loves & longs that he turn away from his wickedness. No sin is too great that Christ's Sacrifice for them can't fully atone for. But we need to acknowledge it first & the world refuses to do so.
why was it okay for Lot to offer his virgin little girls to a crowd of men to rape ? and it was just fine with God that lots girls got him drunk and raped him ( incest ) ? and have you ever worked on the sabbath?
Does the Bible say it was okay for Lot and family to act as they did?
I can only see that misery, degradation and death for nations were brought about by their misguided deeds.
Comparing ourselves with them to excuse our own sin could never assuage our personal guilt. Only faith in the crucified and risen Lord Jesus Christ can mollify that shame.
And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.so God is saying Lot is righteous ,so what he does is fine with god . ----- Bendito Palavra - in Reply on Isaiah 54
Does the Bible say it was okay for Lot and family to act as they did? yes it does, how you cant see that says a lot about you.
The righteousness of Lot was not determined by what he did. In fact much of what he did was self-serving and his choices resulted in him losing most of what God graciously gave him in this world.
His righteousness could only be bestowed upon him by God's grace through faith, as Abraham was his influential example:
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. ( Romans 4:3-8)
Our righteousness is the gift of God through faith in Jesus Christ and his atonement for our sins by his crucified death, burial and resurrection.
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. ( 2 Corinthians 5:21)
Wayne, I don't believe it was okay for Lot to offer his daughters in exchange for protection of his visitors. I feel that, if anything, he should have offered himself, which would have been the proper thing to do given the circumstances.
And I agree again, that incest is not acceptable with God. To note though, the official Law & Standards were not given to Israel until much later through Moses at Mt. Horeb. We are not told how God dealt with the daughters, indeed with Lot himself, except that the offspring from that act, Moab & Ammon, were rejected by God & were given over to idolatry choosing to reject the True God. As too with Edom, the offspring of Esau. All three families had bad relations with Israel, even from the beginning as they went to war with Israel over Israel's march through their territories.
"Have I ever worked on the Sabbath?" I'm unsure about the purpose of this question at this occasion, but I'm never one to turn down an answer. I'm not a Jew so I don't observe the Sabbath - I do however observe the Lord's Day as a special day to meet with other believers around God's Word & in corporate praise of Him. Yet, everyday is a 'day of rest' for me as I experience that ongoing rest & satisfaction in my spirit in knowing that I'm loved by God, kept secure in it & have a certain hope for our uncertain future. Hebrews 4:1-11.
Very true, God's Word is unchanging - and "the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good". By it man ought to live & by it man will be judged.
But "thanks be to God for His unspeakable Gift" that those who are in Christ "are now delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter" ( Romans 7:6). But for those under the Law (the unsaved Jews) & others who believe that the Law is still obligatory for them, then "if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain" ( Galatians 2:21).
And what was God's righteousness? This was faith in God's Provision of His Son. Jesus became "the END OF THE LAW giving righteousness to everyone that believeth". So the letter of the Law has not changed, but what that Law could never accomplish, Jesus did for us through His Sacrifice.
Now, some Christians say, "I have saving faith in God through Jesus Christ but I am still bound to obey God's Commandments (i.e. the letter of the Law)". What Paul was teaching is that if we are going to be bound to the Law, then our salvation is dependent on our obedience to it (& that can never work). We can't claim to regard the Law in our lives along with having faith in Jesus Who removed that Law for those who come to Him in faith. The requirements of the Law & of Faith cannot be fused - it only causes confusion; just as oil & water won't mix because of their different polar & non-polar molecules that don't allow them to mix.
The Law ultimately led to knowledge of sin & death - Faith in Jesus leads to victory over sin & eternal life. If we try to fuse the two, then we state that Christ's Sacrifice was insufficient & obedience to a set of rules is also needed for our justification & to please God. His Sacrifice was complete in itself: it gave us full redemption, our full acceptability to God & God's Power to obey Him through His Spirit over & above what the Law could ever prescribe us to do.
Romans 8:2 tells us of the new Law from the Life-giving Spirit that frees us from the old. And this was foretold when a new Covenant would be made with Israel with God's Laws being written upon their hearts, Hebrews 8:7-11. Also Romans chapter 7, especially verses 4 to 6.
So God sent forth His Word, clothed in flesh, in fulfilment of the prophecies about His Son Jesus, both in His coming & in His dying. Jesus perfectly kept God's Laws, as only He could, not destroying them, rather fulfilling them. He never proclaimed the cancellation of the Laws, as all Israel was still bound to it & would be judged by it. Sacrifices still continued even after Jesus' Crucifixion, until the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman army in AD 70. So the Jews were in a strait: they had to maintain their sacrifices even though these 'Christians' preached that Jesus' death was God's Sacrifice & animal sacrifices were no longer needed. This would have been a real stumbling block to any Jew wanting to believe in Jesus, not only as the Son of God from Heaven but also the Sacrifice of God for sins. So did God utter the words, "My Son has now made void the Law"? No, His sending Jesus to die for man's sins & Jesus' Own Words, "It is finished" tells us that all that the Father planned for man's redemption was now completed. The application of the Law ended - the need for sacrifices had ceased - only Conversion & Faith in the work of the Cross was needed.
But Jesus was Israel's only hope of salvation, since God sending His Own Sacrifice meant the negating of the animal sacrifices. If then Jesus annulled that system by being the Sacrifice & also annulled the Law by being the embodiment of the Law, that Sacrifice of His showed the end of the Law & sacrifices to them that put their faith in that Work on the Cross. See Romans 10:1-5. And particularly note, that Israel went about establishing their own righteousness (which came from trying to obey the Law), but not towards God's righteousness.
Well actually, the Law in itself never changed, but the application of it did. The Law given by God is unchangeable in that it came from God & was given to His people, Israel, so that they had God's Standards for living, for worship & for dealing with their sin before a Holy God rather than develop their own standards. If left to their own devices, they would quickly degenerate & behave as the heathen gentiles around them (i.e. pantheistic, carnal living & vain sacrifices (including human sacrifices) to appease their gods). So Israel needed a standard that reflected the Holy Nature & demands of their God.
Israel still failed God many times & they were often scolded by God, through His prophets, & also punished (the long lasting punishment was their exile into Babylonian captivity (Judah) & into Assyrian captivity (Israel)). So of what benefit was that Law? Apart from it being God's Standard for them, it was also meant to show them their sin & their inability to follow it to the letter ( Romans 3:19,20). So, as required by God, each year sacrifice had to be made by the High Priest as a propitiatory offering to God, to temporarily cover their sins & appease God's Anger. If they faithfully did this, God would not condemn them for sin & they could live & not die. But this Law was only for a time & for a reason (as stated above), looking forward to the time when the only acceptable Sacrifice would come, a Sacrifice that fully dealt with man's sin & it would be a permanent, once for all, redemptive Sacrifice. Hebrews 10:1-18 gives more detail on this.
I think in Matthew 5, Jesus showed that the principals of some laws were still relevant to every day living. If we try to live our lives in the Grace of God, without principals (for example) people would divorce each other, not even get married but still have children. Family units breakdown and the children grow up without guidance. Very much as it is Now.
People would look open issues of Lusts, and become consumed by it. Very muck like it is today with the booming porn industry. Society has pretty much thrown off restraints concerning that.
I think Jesus could see clear to the year 2020 and see what earths society would become. God gave us free will. Let's be honest ok? He knew what we'd do with that freedom. It takes Godly; strength built by the Holy Spirit, to turn us to Gods arms of protection against those behaviors.
Jesus reaffirmed what behaviors we should adopt and live our lives by, 24/7, year after year, until we die.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Again, I can't disagree with the Scriptures you quote, Matthew 5:17,18. They were valid at that time as they are valid today: the Law came from the Mouth of God, Jesus came to fulfil all of its demands & the prophecies about Him of which none other could, & the Law's purity & power remain unchanged even today.
What changed after Jesus' ministry on Earth & His death & resurrection, was that that Law that was supposed to bring us life actually showed us our sin & incapability of keeping it, thereby guaranteeing us separation from God for all eternity: Romans 7:10,11, "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me".
So for those who bind themselves to the Law now after expressing faith in Jesus' Sacrifice for their sins & still desire to please God by fulfilling the requirements of the Law, will most certainly fail before God now, just as the Jews did (& Saul did) before. Romans 8:3,4, "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh (i.e. man could never fully obey the Law), God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit".
And what is it to "walk after the Spirit"? Romans 8:2: "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death". The Law by the Life-giving Spirit of God which is now in every believer fully meets our legal position before God. Why? Because we are now "in Christ" & come under His Spirit's Laws & not under the Laws that condemned us. If now in this glorious position because of God's Gift of His Son, why should we turn back to that which kills us rather that we obey the Giver of Eternal Life? Hebrews 8:10: this was God's Plan from the beginning: the written Law would fade allowing for the new Law in the heart by Christ.
Wayne, if your car was going 80 mph down the road towards a bridge, in a flash flood
But the bridge just washed away
Wouldn't you want someone to try and wave some flares to try and stop you from sudden death ??
Should I park my car and just watch people pile up on each other as cars wash downstream??
It is their fault they were driving too fast in the rain...texting and checking email.
You know what else? NO ONE gets to be someone else's choice or conscience!!
All this big honking SOLIDARITY MOVEMENT amongst 20-30 yr old kids is: the last cycle of generational curses. It says the children will eat their parents. If that means they're going to eat all the food, eat the parents and move out of the basement into the house again....
It's good us old foggies are going up in the Rapture soon, huh?
Nothing will stop Antichrist from FORCING you to take take The Mark of the Beast. Force you to bow down on one knee to Worship Him and the False Prophet. He's not your friend.
We reach out to those people in Romans Chapter 1, the Bible describes plainly: Men who reject the natural use of women; and women who do the same. People burning up with lusts they cannot control.
We know that God loves everyone. We love you too, but we have to tell you that you need to come to Jesus to be rescued. Ask any questions you need answers to. Read John chapter 3. This is the hazard flare that's being waved to warn you. Is there a little tug on your heart right now? That's Him! He's calling you. Knocking on the door of your heart. Ask him in. He's real. Alive.
Every time you say no; your heart hardens. Till you don't even hear Him calling you anymore. Keep coming back here. We love you. I love you because I know Jesus loves you. He died, so you can live.
Yes, all people of any age have the freewill to do anything they want and do the sickest, most evil, vile sins imagineable. But you can't pursue evil and genuinely follow Jesus and expect to go to heaven, so those who pursue evil will go to hell. People reading the Bible are usually trying to learn about God and follow Jesus try to avoid sin which is different than what you describe. Romans 1:25-27
As in generations gone by, much of what the Bible calls SIN, is regarded by people today as of no consequence. So if engaging in homosexual activities gives someone happiness & companionship then why should anyone condemn them, is what they say. But God Who made us, made us male & female & that this union within marriage would reflect God's plan for mankind & be the means of a loving, fruitful relationship that would produce offspring as a result of that love. Any departure from this plan is wrong & God will deal with all those that do it.
So what about the homosexual saying that that is how I am from birth? Or he becomes one out of his choice or because of a devastating upbringing? Then what about the kleptomaniac who can't help but steal or the prolific liar & deceiver who gives no second thought to his sin? All this is sin & must be acknowledged as such & to be turned away from. Yes, it will be hard for these to exercise discipline & do what is necessary to depart from evil, but when one turns to Jesus & is made new, God's Power will rest upon him & he can be healed.
When I see a homosexual, I see a person whom God loves & longs that he turn away from his wickedness. No sin is too great that Christ's Sacrifice for them can't fully atone for. But we need to acknowledge it first & the world refuses to do so.
I can only see that misery, degradation and death for nations were brought about by their misguided deeds.
Comparing ourselves with them to excuse our own sin could never assuage our personal guilt. Only faith in the crucified and risen Lord Jesus Christ can mollify that shame.
Does the Bible say it was okay for Lot and family to act as they did? yes it does, how you cant see that says a lot about you.
His righteousness could only be bestowed upon him by God's grace through faith, as Abraham was his influential example:
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. ( Romans 4:3-8)
Our righteousness is the gift of God through faith in Jesus Christ and his atonement for our sins by his crucified death, burial and resurrection.
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. ( 2 Corinthians 5:21)
And I agree again, that incest is not acceptable with God. To note though, the official Law & Standards were not given to Israel until much later through Moses at Mt. Horeb. We are not told how God dealt with the daughters, indeed with Lot himself, except that the offspring from that act, Moab & Ammon, were rejected by God & were given over to idolatry choosing to reject the True God. As too with Edom, the offspring of Esau. All three families had bad relations with Israel, even from the beginning as they went to war with Israel over Israel's march through their territories.
"Have I ever worked on the Sabbath?" I'm unsure about the purpose of this question at this occasion, but I'm never one to turn down an answer. I'm not a Jew so I don't observe the Sabbath - I do however observe the Lord's Day as a special day to meet with other believers around God's Word & in corporate praise of Him. Yet, everyday is a 'day of rest' for me as I experience that ongoing rest & satisfaction in my spirit in knowing that I'm loved by God, kept secure in it & have a certain hope for our uncertain future. Hebrews 4:1-11.
But "thanks be to God for His unspeakable Gift" that those who are in Christ "are now delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter" ( Romans 7:6). But for those under the Law (the unsaved Jews) & others who believe that the Law is still obligatory for them, then "if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain" ( Galatians 2:21).
And what was God's righteousness? This was faith in God's Provision of His Son. Jesus became "the END OF THE LAW giving righteousness to everyone that believeth". So the letter of the Law has not changed, but what that Law could never accomplish, Jesus did for us through His Sacrifice.
Now, some Christians say, "I have saving faith in God through Jesus Christ but I am still bound to obey God's Commandments (i.e. the letter of the Law)". What Paul was teaching is that if we are going to be bound to the Law, then our salvation is dependent on our obedience to it (& that can never work). We can't claim to regard the Law in our lives along with having faith in Jesus Who removed that Law for those who come to Him in faith. The requirements of the Law & of Faith cannot be fused - it only causes confusion; just as oil & water won't mix because of their different polar & non-polar molecules that don't allow them to mix.
The Law ultimately led to knowledge of sin & death - Faith in Jesus leads to victory over sin & eternal life. If we try to fuse the two, then we state that Christ's Sacrifice was insufficient & obedience to a set of rules is also needed for our justification & to please God. His Sacrifice was complete in itself: it gave us full redemption, our full acceptability to God & God's Power to obey Him through His Spirit over & above what the Law could ever prescribe us to do.
Romans 8:2 tells us of the new Law from the Life-giving Spirit that frees us from the old. And this was foretold when a new Covenant would be made with Israel with God's Laws being written upon their hearts, Hebrews 8:7-11. Also Romans chapter 7, especially verses 4 to 6.
So God sent forth His Word, clothed in flesh, in fulfilment of the prophecies about His Son Jesus, both in His coming & in His dying. Jesus perfectly kept God's Laws, as only He could, not destroying them, rather fulfilling them. He never proclaimed the cancellation of the Laws, as all Israel was still bound to it & would be judged by it. Sacrifices still continued even after Jesus' Crucifixion, until the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman army in AD 70. So the Jews were in a strait: they had to maintain their sacrifices even though these 'Christians' preached that Jesus' death was God's Sacrifice & animal sacrifices were no longer needed. This would have been a real stumbling block to any Jew wanting to believe in Jesus, not only as the Son of God from Heaven but also the Sacrifice of God for sins. So did God utter the words, "My Son has now made void the Law"? No, His sending Jesus to die for man's sins & Jesus' Own Words, "It is finished" tells us that all that the Father planned for man's redemption was now completed. The application of the Law ended - the need for sacrifices had ceased - only Conversion & Faith in the work of the Cross was needed.
But Jesus was Israel's only hope of salvation, since God sending His Own Sacrifice meant the negating of the animal sacrifices. If then Jesus annulled that system by being the Sacrifice & also annulled the Law by being the embodiment of the Law, that Sacrifice of His showed the end of the Law & sacrifices to them that put their faith in that Work on the Cross. See Romans 10:1-5. And particularly note, that Israel went about establishing their own righteousness (which came from trying to obey the Law), but not towards God's righteousness.
Well actually, the Law in itself never changed, but the application of it did. The Law given by God is unchangeable in that it came from God & was given to His people, Israel, so that they had God's Standards for living, for worship & for dealing with their sin before a Holy God rather than develop their own standards. If left to their own devices, they would quickly degenerate & behave as the heathen gentiles around them (i.e. pantheistic, carnal living & vain sacrifices (including human sacrifices) to appease their gods). So Israel needed a standard that reflected the Holy Nature & demands of their God.
Israel still failed God many times & they were often scolded by God, through His prophets, & also punished (the long lasting punishment was their exile into Babylonian captivity (Judah) & into Assyrian captivity (Israel)). So of what benefit was that Law? Apart from it being God's Standard for them, it was also meant to show them their sin & their inability to follow it to the letter ( Romans 3:19,20). So, as required by God, each year sacrifice had to be made by the High Priest as a propitiatory offering to God, to temporarily cover their sins & appease God's Anger. If they faithfully did this, God would not condemn them for sin & they could live & not die. But this Law was only for a time & for a reason (as stated above), looking forward to the time when the only acceptable Sacrifice would come, a Sacrifice that fully dealt with man's sin & it would be a permanent, once for all, redemptive Sacrifice. Hebrews 10:1-18 gives more detail on this.
People would look open issues of Lusts, and become consumed by it. Very muck like it is today with the booming porn industry. Society has pretty much thrown off restraints concerning that.
I think Jesus could see clear to the year 2020 and see what earths society would become. God gave us free will. Let's be honest ok? He knew what we'd do with that freedom. It takes Godly; strength built by the Holy Spirit, to turn us to Gods arms of protection against those behaviors.
Jesus reaffirmed what behaviors we should adopt and live our lives by, 24/7, year after year, until we die.
What changed after Jesus' ministry on Earth & His death & resurrection, was that that Law that was supposed to bring us life actually showed us our sin & incapability of keeping it, thereby guaranteeing us separation from God for all eternity: Romans 7:10,11, "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me".
So for those who bind themselves to the Law now after expressing faith in Jesus' Sacrifice for their sins & still desire to please God by fulfilling the requirements of the Law, will most certainly fail before God now, just as the Jews did (& Saul did) before. Romans 8:3,4, "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh (i.e. man could never fully obey the Law), God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit".
And what is it to "walk after the Spirit"? Romans 8:2: "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death". The Law by the Life-giving Spirit of God which is now in every believer fully meets our legal position before God. Why? Because we are now "in Christ" & come under His Spirit's Laws & not under the Laws that condemned us. If now in this glorious position because of God's Gift of His Son, why should we turn back to that which kills us rather that we obey the Giver of Eternal Life? Hebrews 8:10: this was God's Plan from the beginning: the written Law would fade allowing for the new Law in the heart by Christ.
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us
But the bridge just washed away
Wouldn't you want someone to try and wave some flares to try and stop you from sudden death ??
Should I park my car and just watch people pile up on each other as cars wash downstream??
It is their fault they were driving too fast in the rain...texting and checking email.
You know what else? NO ONE gets to be someone else's choice or conscience!!
All this big honking SOLIDARITY MOVEMENT amongst 20-30 yr old kids is: the last cycle of generational curses. It says the children will eat their parents. If that means they're going to eat all the food, eat the parents and move out of the basement into the house again....
It's good us old foggies are going up in the Rapture soon, huh?
Nothing will stop Antichrist from FORCING you to take take The Mark of the Beast. Force you to bow down on one knee to Worship Him and the False Prophet. He's not your friend.
We reach out to those people in Romans Chapter 1, the Bible describes plainly: Men who reject the natural use of women; and women who do the same. People burning up with lusts they cannot control.
We know that God loves everyone. We love you too, but we have to tell you that you need to come to Jesus to be rescued. Ask any questions you need answers to. Read John chapter 3. This is the hazard flare that's being waved to warn you. Is there a little tug on your heart right now? That's Him! He's calling you. Knocking on the door of your heart. Ask him in. He's real. Alive.
Every time you say no; your heart hardens. Till you don't even hear Him calling you anymore. Keep coming back here. We love you. I love you because I know Jesus loves you. He died, so you can live.
Midhael
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