Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Joshua on Luke 12:10 - 3 years ago
    Look at the context of this verse. The one sin that won't be forgiven is to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. Right before Jesus said this, he said that those who deny Him (Jesus) before men will be denied eternal life. To deny Jesus is to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, and that sin will not be forgiven.

    If we deny Christ, we were never saved to begin with, and we are denied eternal life.

    "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it." Luke 9:24, Matt 16.25, Mark 8:35, Luke 17:33
  • Adam - In Reply on Luke 12:10 - 3 years ago
    Hi Joshua,

    Do you believe that Christians physically cannot deny Christ? If so, do you think that God denies them their freewill?

    Are you a Christian currently? If so, if you chose to deny Christ, would that mean you were somehow never a Christian?

    So, what do you think qualifies someone to be a Christian then? If someone prays and asks for forgiveness and says he believes Jesus is the son of God and is Lord and wants to follow him and is baptized is that enough?

    Christians turn from the faith and deny Christ too often, so all these Christians were never Christians? by the Bible's standards or someone else's? Can anyone be certain they're a true Christian then, because you don't know what you'll say or do in the future, right?
  • Joshua - In Reply on Luke 12:10 - 3 years ago
    Hello Adam,

    Yes, I am a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    The standard I only desire to use is God's Word, and this is the only standard anyone can use regarding the truth( John 17:17).

    Whether we, still imperfect in our sinful flesh, can "know" if we are saved or not is a good question. God tells us to examine ourselves, to see if we are in the faith( 2 Cor. 13:5). We examine if we are walking in agreement with God.

    The whole of God's Word shows us that once we are born again, we become a new creature( 2 Corinthians 5:17). We are to be dead to our old ways. Dead to the ways of the world, because the world is wicked( 1 John 5:19). We are not to continue practicing sin( Titus 2:12, James 1:27).

    We will still sin because we are still imperfect. ( Romans 7:23-24, Philippians 3:12, Ephesians 4:13). The difference is we do not continue PRACTICING sin, or WILLFULLY sinning. God does not judge by appearance, but by the TRUE state of our HEARTS( Luke 16:15, John 7:24).

    If we continue our old practice - our dead in our sins way of living AFTER we become saved, we were never saved/born again to begin with( Hebrews 10:26, Hebrews 10:38-39, 1 John 2:15, 2 Peter 2:20-22).

    We are still in the world but we are not of the world( John 17:16, Romans 12:2). On the contrary, we are tasked by the Lord to be examples & witnesses to the world( Philippians 2:15, Matthew 5:14, Romans 10:9-11, 13-15, 2 Corinthians 4:13).

    This, I believe, is the "key" to knowing whether or not we are truly saved. If we truly believe.
  • Chris - In Reply on Luke 12:10 - 3 years ago
    Hi Joshua. Just to briefly chime in here to lend full agreement & support to what you have declared as this is how I understand the believers' stand before God. The Lord will not draw a (predestined) seeking soul, in his conviction of sin upon hearing the Gospel, his cry out for forgiveness & then receiving confirmation of that redemption with joy, peace & the indwelling of His Spirit, if he then at some future date, decides to reject the Lord & turn back to his old ways. God makes no mistakes in His Call & Confirmation.

    If a 'Christian' turns back, it can never be our determination of what sort of experience & spiritual work has been done in that life. God only knows every heart & our 'judgement' can only be based on what our eyes perceive: & that's not a good basis at all. That is why at one's water baptism, one can only be baptized based on the testimony of one's faith, not on the knowledge of the person's heart, mind or his present/future walk with the Lord. If a believer sins or even backslides, the matter is between him & God: for the Spirit's Work in Him to draw him back to spiritual health. We might see a 'Christian' lost into the world, but as said earlier, our perception is not with God's Knowledge; that same 'Christian' may one day return to full faith in a special abundant way.

    And to add one more thing: "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." ( Matthew 10:22, 24:13). This is the ultimate test isn't it, as has been proven over the centuries when godly folk, who may not readily agree with our understanding of the doctrines & lessons we discuss here, but who for their love for God through Christ & with a solid unshakeable faith, have gone to their deaths at the stake or the sword. Does it take such an event to convince us of their salvation? Maybe so. Is it even important or right that we do so, as each soul stands or falls depending on what has or has not transpired between him and God?
  • Joshua - In Reply on Luke 12:10 - 3 years ago
    Hello Chris,

    My thanks for your kindness, and for your well thought-out reply. I don't have much to add... I think it's as you said - at the end of the day, it is between each person and God. I don't think we can know if another person is "really saved" while we are in this temporary body. Even if we use the only measure, God's Word, can we know the true state of a person's heart?

    Of course, that doesn't mean we shouldn't give God's Word to everyone as we have opportunity. God told us to exhort, edify, and encourage one another daily( 2 Timothy 4:2, Hebrews 3:13, Hebrews 10:25). I believe these things are all part of fighting the good fight of faith.

    God bless, my friend.
  • Adam - In Reply on Luke 12:10 - 3 years ago
    Hello, I agree with everything you typed except your paragraph starting with "If we continue our old practice..." Your scripture references don't relate to the claim that Christians are suddenly never Christians- almost like pretending to erase history. Who are you to say a person isn't a Christian if they're following Christ and who are you to say they don't have freewill to turn and make bad choices later on in life. What's your criteria on what a Christian is? Judas betrayed Jesus and is probably in hell. Peter denied Jesus and he was a devout Christ-follower (a Christian), so is your belief that Peter was never a Christian, even though he literally was a Christ follower? There's an ex-Christian forum online that has 71,000+ members. Where they 'never' Christians, but they were and maybe they will be again. I know you didn't answer the previous questions and that's your own choice to not not consider another point of view or not. God bless.
  • Joshua - In Reply on Luke 12:10 - 3 years ago
    Hello again,

    I did try to answer your questions with scripture.

    Regarding Peter, I've asked the same question before. The Holy Spirit was not yet given to mankind, and he was not born again when he denied Christ.

    The time is rapidly approaching when every Christian will be tempted to deny Christ before people, in order save their temporary lives. Most "Christians" will deny Him, erroneously and fatally thinking "Oh, God will forgive me." No, He won't. He says he won't forgive you right here: "But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God." Luke 12:9

    If you will remember anything from our conversation, please remember these words of Jesus.

    "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it." Mark 8:35

    The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.



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