Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Dianne Hann on 2 Corinthians 11:14
    I am looking for explanation about why God HATED Esau before he did anything bad or good. God LOVED us whilst we were dead in sin. The Bible says God HATED Esau ... I understand God has foreknowledge but cannot understand why He hated Esau (not Esau's sin)!
  • How Esau Became Hated By God - in Reply on 2 Corinthians 11:14
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    Wesley's Notes for Genesis 25:31

    "Sell me this day thy birth - right - He cannot be excused in taking advantage of Esau's necessity, yet neither can Esau be excused who is profane, #Hebrews 12:16|, because for one morsel of meat he sold his birth - right. The birth - right was typical of spiritual privileges, those of the church of the first - born: Esau was now tried how he would value those, and he shews himself sensible only of present grievances: may he but get relief against them, he cares not for his birth - right. If we look on Esau's birth - right as only a temporal advantage, what he said had something of truth in it, that our worldly enjoyments, even those we are most fond of, will stand us in no stead in a dying hour. They will not put by the stroke of death, nor ease the pangs, nor remove the sting. But being of a spiritual nature, his undervaluing it, was the GREATEST PROFANENESS POSSIBLE. It is egregious folly to part with our interest in God, and Christ, and heaven, for the riches, honours, and pleasures of this world.

    Thus, God hated Esau.
  • Carleton - in Reply on 2 Corinthians 11:14
    This is why a born again believer must finish the race reconciled with God and their neighbor.
  • Jesse - in Reply on 2 Corinthians 11:14
    (Page 2:)

    But God says "Jacob have I loved, and Esau I have hated." It's taken from Malachi 1:2-3. If you go back to Malachi Chapter 1, you find out that Jacob and Esau are associated with Israel and Edom.

    So it wasn't about choosing one person over another or loving one person more than the other. He was choosing Israel over Edom. He wasn't choosing for salvation. Even Ishmael, when he was asked to leave the camp, he was told by God that he would be provided for.

    There was just as much opportunity for the Ishmaelite's to be saved as anyone else. When God made a choice, He says through Jacob will be my promised line. He wasn't telling Esau "I hate you so you're not going to be saved!"

    Jacob and Esau were not in competition as to who's going to be saved and who's going to be rejected. This is the choosing of who Israel is going to come through. Jacob was chosen for the chosen line and it was all of God.



    It is interesting that when God made His choice, it was the opposite of the human because in the human, whoever is born first has to be the firstborn and he gets the promise of the firstborn.

    So before they were even born, God says "Well, I don't want to do it that way because then man will say that he was in line anyway. So I'll choose the second because he's not supposed to be, so I'll choose him just to show you that it will be of God."

    That's what we are looking at here. The emphasis is when God chose Israel, not all of Israel is Israel.

    But there is an elect within Israel who are Jewish and are Hebrew that God has chosen and it's through Abraham, through Isaac, and now He has chosen through Jacob.

    That doesn't mean Esau is not loved by God and that Jesus didn't come and die for the Edomites. Yes, He did! He's not choosing salvation. He's choosing which line Messiah is going to come from through this entire nation of Israel.

    I hope this helps!
  • Jesse - in Reply on 2 Corinthians 11:14
    Dianne,

    In Romans 9:13 it says "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

    Now that's a pretty serious statement to make.

    The terms love and hate are what are called words of comparison. Obviously, love and hate, there is a comparison there, but the words themselves don't mean He loves them and He hates them, or He loves one more than the other. As a matter of fact, these words are found in the New Testament.

    We think that was harsh but look at this. In Luke 14:26, it says "If any man come to me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brothers and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

    Now that's pretty harsh! You have to hate your mother and your father, and wife and children, and brothers and sisters? Now I can probably pick a couple out of there that I'm glad He said that! But it makes it pretty hard. What do you have to do, go home and show your hate towards them? What's He trying to say?

    The Greek word for hate, MISEO means to love less. It doesn't mean hostility. In fact, Jesus, in Matthew 10:37 says "He that loves father and mother more than me is not worthy of me, and he that loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

    He's talking about comparisons. The comparison is that Jesus is saying you must love me so much that in comparison to everybody else, it looks like you hate them. I mean it's not even close. Jesus said there cannot be me and somebody else!

    That helps explain in Exodus Chapter 20 where God says you shall have no other gods before me. Except in the Hebrew, it says you shall have no other gods except for me.

    In other words, it's not putting God first, and then we have our other priorities. God says I'm your only priority. Wow! We have no obligation in the flesh. Our one and only obligation is to follow Christ.

    (more to follow:)


 

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