Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Michael Walker on Isaiah 13:10
    In 1 Corinthians 6:16 and 6:19 and 11:22 and 14:36

    Paul said What? asking A Question do you fill he was scolding them.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Michael,

    Paul wrote 1 Corinthians as a correctional letter to a carnal church. That was their spiritual condition. Paul had evangelized in Corinth during his second missionary journey and many were saved at that time. But there was a lot of corruption in the church in Corinth and Paul wrote the letter to answer a lot of questions the church there had.

    Now the verses you listed where Paul begins by saying What?, I'm not sure if he's scolding them or asking it this way as if to say this is something you should know by now.

    Remember, Paul evangelized there earlier. But 3 to 5 years later they have all these problems in the church and they have a lot of questions for Paul.

    Remember I said they were a carnal church? Did you know that a Christian can be carnal and it be completely normal? But there is also an abnormal carnal.



    There are two Greek words for carnal. The only difference in the two words is one letter. We have Sarkinos, and Sarkikos. It is the word for flesh. That's what the word carnal means. Sarkinos is normal. Sarkikos is abnormal.

    Paul told them in 1 Corinthians Chapter 3 that when he first came to them that he could only feed them with milk and not meat. He said because they were yet carnal, and he used the word Sarkinos. It was normal because they were newborn babes in Christ. As newborn believers, they could only handle the milk of the word.

    But now 3 to 5 years later Paul is writing to them and basically saying that by now they should be more established as a church, but they are still carnal, only this time the word Sarkikos is used, abnormal carnal.

    So Paul wrote this letter as a correctional letter to a carnal and corrupt church. I hope I have made some sense out of this and I hope this answers your question.

    If anything, I've shared some Greek with you. We see the English word carnal and we automatically think that it is bad. But in the Greek, there is a normal carnal (Sarkinos), and an abnormal (Sarkikos).
  • Chris - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    That was very interesting & informative Jesse - I didn't know that nor did I see the any difference in the word, along with many other folk I'm sure. A good exercise & encouragement to textual examination, & of course, knowing Greek, helps. Appreciated your knowledge here.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Thanks, Chris,

    Learning to read Greek has been such a blessing. There are several places in the Greek text where different words are used but are translated as the same word in English. Not just the word carnal, because we see the word carnal in English and we automatically think that it is bad. But words like good, repent, son, and several others, when we see those words in English, we know what good means, we know what repent means, and we know what son means in English.



    I just recently read here someone asking how can Jesus be God, when the bible says He is God's Son? Well, in English, we know what the word son means. But the Greek uses a completely different word. The word Son when applied to Jesus is the word Huios. Son by natural birth is a totally different word. It is the word Teknon.



    Jesus said why did you call me good? There is only one who is good and that it God. Now wait a minute, I know some good people. I think the people here on this forum are good people. But one might argue that Jesus said only God is good. Okay, that is true. Only God is Agathos (Good). People can be good also (Kalos).

    Repent? Someone asked me (Not here) if Judas was saved because the bible says that he repented. Again, the Greek text did not say he repented like we as believers understand repentance to mean. The word repent used for Judas was the word Metamelomai, which means Judas was sorry. He did not repent as in making a decision to change the direction of his life and surrender to Christ. The repentance we know and understand is the word Metanoeo. These are just a few words that literally change the meaning of a verse or passage that I've come to know in my study of the Greek text. I'm happy to share my understanding, and I have been built up by reading the things you share. You have a vast wealth of knowledge and understanding that I hope to obtain someday. But I know that only comes from the Lord. And He's only going to give me what my little pea brain can handle!
  • Chris - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Jesse, thank you again for imparting your knowledge for our learning also. The other thing I learn here, is that our English language often lacks specific words to describe the intended meaning. The usual one we refer to is: Love. In English, we are compelled to qualify it if we are to accurately convey our meaning. Whereas in Greek & I'm sure in some other languages, a specific word for it has already been established. It must be quite a rich experience reading the Scriptures in Greek (& Hebrew of course), as one can then 'enter' the heart of the writer & make the reading rich in our minds.

    Of course, we all have something to share with each other, & hopefully some needed wisdom & guidance to others in the future, whom the Lord might lead to this Site to get some answers. I see a real on-going ministry here for each one of us: being available to the Lord to be used to help someone else & to learn ourselves. I certainly don't regard myself as having anymore knowledge than another, indeed, the more I study the Scriptures, the more apparent is my ignorance. I learn much from what others share here & particularly the varied opinions & determinations given, information that sometimes I've never contemplated. Yet, from sharing in written form we miss out receiving the intended expression as we would when making eye contact, with intonations, quick clarifications, interjections, etc., so therein lies an unavoidable weakness which sometimes causes us to think of someone writing in an inappropriate way. The Lord indeed bless you in your life & ministry to us & others.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Chris,

    Love is another great example. For a long time I wondered why Jesus asked Peter three times "Peter, do you love me?" You would think once or twice to confirm would have been enough, but a third time? Someone told me it was because Peter denied Jesus three times, and that's why Peter was asked three times do you love me. It sounded okay at the time.

    But that's not why at all. Again, we see love being used in John Chapter 21 and we know what love is from an English standpoint. But Jesus asks the first time "Simon, do you love me more than these? Jesus uses the word Agape. Peter responds using the word Phileo for love. Both words are translated love in English but have different meanings in Greek. The second time Jesus asks, He again uses Agape, and Peter responds with Phileo. I remember when Jesus told Peter he would deny Him three times, and Peter's response was that he would never deny Jesus.

    So Jesus asks Peter twice "Do you love me? Do you Agape me?" Peter responds again, you know I love you, you know I Phileo you.

    Here's the real kicker. The third time Jesus asks "Do you love me," Jesus uses Phileo. Jesus used Agape the first two times and Peter responded with you know I Phileo you. So now Jesus is really challenging Peter by saying do you really Phileo me? And Peter gives the most perfect response imaginable. Peter says "Lord, you know all things!"

    During this whole exchange between Peter and Jesus, they both used the word love, but they each used a different word which gives us the true meaning of what that exchange was all about. This is why I love the Greek.

    Agape is the highest form of sacrificial love there is and it is produced by God's Spirit. Phileo is human love and affection. Peter wasn't about to make the same mistake again by responding back to Christ and saying yes I Agape you. Peter realizes that Jesus knows his heart.

    I didn't mean for this to be so long but you brought up a great example and I wanted to share this. God Bless!
  • Mishael - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    That's the first time I've heard that exchange explained this way. What a blessing! Thank you.
  • Chris - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Jesse, that was a wonderful insight (via Greek) into such a compelling portion of Scripture: I would never have considered the actual meaning of this discourse you presented, so this was quite a revelation. We do have the Greek Lexicon within reach but it's a case of putting in the time & effort to examine specific verses from it. Many thanks again.
  • Greg - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Jesse,

    I completely agree with you. Understanding Biblical Hebrew and Greek is essential to gaining a deeper understanding of Scripture.

    I have a couple of questions.

    How does the word "huios" meaning "a son" and "kalos" meaning a "child" change your understanding of Scripture?

    Does this understanding of the Greek words mean that God is Jesus and Jesus is God?

    The word for "repented" means to "care afterwards, i.e. regret." (Strong's #3338).

    If Judas did not repent as "we as believers understand repentance to mean," what does "regret" mean to you? If forgiveness is based upon repentance, why could he not be forgiven? Judas was not a non'believer in Jesus.

    Judas did not commit the unpardonable sin, and he had help with his death (Acts 1:18).
  • Mishael - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    The reference columns points to a prophesy concerning Judas. I wrote of it; it's buried way back in the history pages.

    If there was a tolerant feeling towards Judas; Jesus would've known what he was going to do.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Just one more thing kind sir,

    I am not too sure that I can say with certainty that Judas did not commit the unpardonable sin. There is nothing in scripture that would have me to believe that Judas ever surrendered His life to Christ or that he was a true follower. Sure, Christ chose him as one of the 12. But Judas was evil. I believe Christ chose an evil man to fulfill the prophecy saying He would be betrayed. Jesus chose an evil man to fulfill that role and Judas was that man.
  • Greg - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Jesse,

    You state,

    "Just one more thing kind sir,

    I am not too sure that I can say with certainty that Judas did not commit the unpardonable sin. There is nothing in scripture that would have me to believe that Judas ever surrendered His life to Christ or that he was a true follower. Sure, Christ chose him as one of the 12. But Judas was evil. I believe Christ chose an evil man to fulfill the prophecy saying He would be betrayed. Jesus chose an evil man to fulfill that role and Judas was that man.

    What is your understanding of the unpardonable sin?

    Look at Matthew 12:32, Mark 3:28, Luke 12:10.

    Are you sure enough with your newly acquired understanding of a few Greek words to claim that, as you state, "Judas never surrendered his life to Jesus" and that Judas was "never a true follower"?

    I have never met someone that is pure evil, have you? Even Satan at one time was good, even "perfect" (Ezekiel 28:12-15).

    So kind sir, please do not get too upset when you are challenged on Scriptural matters. I was not trying to offend, just understand.

    Just one more thing my friend: Forgiveness is based on being SORRY for what you did and try to make amends (30 pieces of silver). God is the Judge. Ephesians 4:32.
  • Debbie Hopkins - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Well, God knew that Judas would choose evil over Christ. However, according to the Bible satan didn't enter into Judas until the last supper when Jesus dipped the bread and handed it to Judas. prior to that Judas was one of the twelve that was chosen by Jesus and he also was sent out by Jesus with the other twelve to save people, and heal people. So to me this is Proof that God gives man free will to choose. Also this to me prove that someone who is a follower and serves Christ can fall away from God.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Hello Debbie,

    It's nice to see someone here who shares the same last name as myself. Yes, I agree that God knew Judas would choose evil over Christ. In fact, I think that's why Judas was chosen. God needed someone evil to carry out an evil deed. And yes, the bible does tell us when Satan entered into Judas. But what I notice is that this was all in God's timing.

    Here's the scary part of this whole thing. Remember when they were all reclining at the table and Jesus said didn't I choose you 12, and one of you is a devil? One of you will betray me. Neither of them knew who it was. They all asked "is it I?" Even Judas asked the same question. You would think that after three years together, and now Jesus is saying one of you will betray me, that they would be able to guess who it might be. But they didn't know. That's the scary part. This tells me that we can have people in the church who look like followers, act like followers, and claim to be true believers, but are not. What a scary thought!

    Yes, Judas was part of the 12. But did you know he was a thief? He was in charge of the money bag and he was stealing the money from it. This would be like one of us stealing money from the collection offering at our church. Judas was evil the entire time. How do you correlate Judas as proof that someone who is a follower and serves Christ can fall away from God? I don't see Judas as being a true follower or one who served Christ.

    What I notice in the gospels is that every time Jesus shared an intimate and private moment with a few of His disciples, it was usually with Peter, James, and John. They seemed to be part of the "Inner circle" so to speak when it came to being close to Jesus. Never once do I see Jesus sharing an intimate moment with Judas.

    As far as free will, you please share with me your full understanding of free will. I would like to know your understanding of free will before I respond with my thoughts on free will.
  • Adam - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    I agree. This is one of many examples in the Bible of Christians losing their salvation. Technically, salvation isn't given anyway until we're judged after this life, but its correct to consider oneself saved by grace as long as they're following Christ (a Christ follower). The problem is I hear Christians want the best of both worlds- they want salvation and they want an unlimited excuse to sin and to indulge in all earthly pleasures. Those two things are incompatible just as Jesus said. You're either following Jesus or you're following the world. It can't be both. Most people will go to hell as so many parables explain, so I personally am not going to take any chances.
  • Chris - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Adam, do you consider the disciples as Christians? My understanding of a Christian is one who has repented of his sins, born again by the Spirit of God & has the Spirit indwelling Him. The disciples were simply followers of Jesus, listening & learning from Him about Kingdom Life & the purpose of their Master's coming. They were being tutored & ministered to, to the end that when the Spirit came upon them & indwelt them, they would then do great exploits in Christ's Name reaching out from Jerusalem to the world when Jesus was no longer with them. Without that indwelling, they were simply dedicated disciples but still carnal in disposition. The fact that they went out to do great things in ministry prior to Christ's crucifixion (Luke 9:1), was a temporary enduement of power given by Christ. The permanent power ("the power from on high" Luke 24:49) would only come at Pentecost. I see them as non-Christians in the Gospels & then as Christians after the Spirit of God baptized them & empowered them for life even to their willing martyrdom.

    Christians who "want the best of both worlds" aren't Christians. You have said correctly, "You're either following Jesus or you're following the world. It can't be both." (Matthew 6:24). To be a Christian, even a faltering Christian, there must be the Spirit's conviction & work in the heart. I can't imagine that a Christian can be such & still behave like the unsaved. Who would he be fooling?

    You: "Technically, salvation isn't given anyway until we're judged after this life, but its correct to consider oneself saved by grace as long as they're following Christ." Actually, this is what makes the Christian different to the adherents of other religions. They wait in hope till the last day, at God's final analysis & judgement, to know their eternal position. But what makes Christians different is that "we may know we have eternal life" (1 John 5:11-13). And this knowledge & confidence is right now: our faith & acceptance based on Christ's Work.
  • Adam - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    The definition of a Christian is a "Christ follower" and the disciples literally did that, so I believe they were Christians. I believe Judas in betraying Jesus he stopped following Him, so I believe that he brought on himself consequences with eternal ramifications. To this day, I've never met anyone named Judas. What he did was so despicable and evil that even atheists avoid that name.
  • Chris - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Adam. Yes, I would agree with you, in the sense that, since they followed Christ, they were technically Christians. However, when I think of being a Christian, I think of those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, as those who were called Christians from Pentecost & onwards. And this indwelling of the Spirit is what keeps the believer secure in Christ, receptive & responsive to sin's thrusts & given wholly to follow the Lord in spite of any circumstances coming against him in life.

    Sure, there will be doubts, fears, & even a major shaking of faith, but in the end, a full restoration spiritually & in his relationship to the Godhead. A nominal Christian can easily turn away or against the Lord, but the believer in Christ, filled with His Spirit, is incapable of doing such a thing. So, the question I ask myself daily, & I trust other believers would also do, is: "if I need to go through extreme hardship, a terminal illness, loss of my home or finances or even persecution, would I still remain faithful to my Saviour?" The Spirit-filled believer will persevere & endure to the end, being moved & empowered to do so by the Spirit.

    Studying the history of the saints who suffered terribly for their faith, reveals that spiritual fortitude in them that can't be found in those who are without salvation. Those who went to the stake strode forward valiantly, not seeing what would soon befall them, but the Face of the Blessed One waiting on the other side to receive them. If it was not for the Lord Jesus beside them, I wonder how many of Jesus' disciples would have faltered & fled at the face of danger, except for the one who saw his position in the group as one for material gain?
  • Carleton - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    A born again Christian should know peace in their heart by the Holy Ghost. If this peace is lacking then there should be grave concern. The Holy Spirit guides but never forces a soul to obey and willful disobediences will cause the Holy Spirit to pull away and taking it's peace with it. Repentance will be needed to reclaim the peace again. This Holy Spirit will not rest upon a believer that continues to willfully follow the ways of the world which includes violence in words, thoughts or actions. This peace provided by the comforter will give more grace for more sanctification in our lives which may sting, yet the peace is worth it all. However if a Christian continues to willfully ignore the promptings of the Holy Spirit and continues to press forward without the peace they will be most miserable and their life witness inconclusive leaving others to doubt the truth of the Gospel and the eternal, everlasting life in Jesus Christ. True Christians are the most accountable people on earth.
  • Carleton - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Let's fight the good fight! Love our neighbors as ourself and remain reconciled in the blood of the Lamb until our last breath.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Hi Greg,

    The word Huios changes my understanding because it is the only word for our English word son that is applied to Jesus. He is never called a Teknon (son). Jesus is always called the Huios of God. A Huios is someone who stands in line to inherit all things from the Father. That is Jesus Christ. The word Kalos does not mean child so I am not sure what you're asking?

    You ask "Does this understanding of the Greek words mean that God is Jesus and Jesus is God?" I would have to ask who did Jesus claim to be? Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. To the Jews, the phrase "Son of God" was the same as being equal to God Himself. If you recall, they were about to take up stones to kill Jesus for who He claimed to be. Jesus didn't say "Oh no guys, before you stone me, I think there might be a misunderstanding here on who I am claiming to be."

    The Textus Receptus uses more than one word for repent. In Judas' case, in Matthew 27:3 it says Judas repented himself. Now if I stop right there, it looks like since he repented, maybe he was saved. The Greek text uses the word Metamelomai.

    Metanoeo means you are repenting of the very life and lifestyle, and the actions that you've committed, and Metamelomai means that you feel bad about the consequences. Again the word used for Judas was Metamelomai. I'm sure he felt sorry for what he did and the consequences of his actions. That is quite obvious to see as he threw the 30 pieces of silver at the priest's feet and said he didn't want it. Well, the priests couldn't put it back into the treasury because it was blood money. So they went outside the city and purchased a field with that money.

    Judas was sorry for what he did (Metamelomai), and he ultimately ended up committing suicide. But he never repented (Metanoeo). He never surrendered his life to Christ. How does Acts 1:18 tell us that Judas had help with his death? Can you see how people might say Judas repented just like the bible tells us to do? Well, he didn't!
  • Greg - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Jesse,

    Page 2

    You stated; Judas was sorry for what he did (Metamelomai), and he ultimately ended up committing suicide. But he never repented (Metanoeo). He never surrendered his life to Christ. How does Acts 1:18 tell us that Judas had help with his death? Can you see how people might say Judas repented just like the bible tells us to do? Well, he didn't!

    #3338 metamellomai- to care afterward, i.e. to repent; and is used for the word REPENT.

    #3340 metanoeo- to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction); and is used for the word REPENT.

    Not sure where you are going with this one either?

    Is the Bible lying? Was Judas NOT sorry for what he did? Why was the statement made?

    You state; Judas was sorry but he never repented!

    Are you sure enough to claim that as fact?

    Were you there?

    Do you know the heart of Judas?

    You then state: How does Acts 1:18 tell us that Judas had help with his death?

    Acts 1:18 states that Judas "bowels gushed out." This means that Judas was disemboweled.

    I know of no person that can commit suicide by this process.

    Do you?

    And no one would do this to him if he was ALREADY dead.
  • Greg - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Jesse,

    You stated "I just recently read here someone asking how can Jesus be God, when the bible says He is God's Son? Well, in English, we know what the word son means. But the Greek uses a completely different word. The word Son when applied to Jesus is the word Huios. Son by natural birth is a totally different word. It is the word Teknon."

    The "read here someone" part was likely me.

    I have recently asked on this website why people believe that Jesus is God and God is Jesus.

    I don't believe that, and that was the point I was trying to make.

    You responded: You ask "Does this understanding of the Greek words mean that God is Jesus and Jesus is God?" I would have to ask who did Jesus claim to be? Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. To the Jews, the phrase "Son of God" was the same as being equal to God Himself. If you recall, they were about to take up stones to kill Jesus for who He claimed to be. Jesus didn't say "Oh no guys, before you stone me, I think there might be a misunderstanding here on who I am claiming to be."

    What "I recall" is that the people accusing Jesus were WRONG. The misunderstanding was with what THEY understood, not with what Jesus was saying.

    I know what Jesus said. So again, I will ask, what are you trying to say?

    And by the way, since you claim teknon is not defined as "child," what is your definition of teknon?

    Strong's #5043 teknon- CHILD, son, daughter, offspring, descendant: It is used for the following words; children, son, sons, child, children's, daughters. The word is a derivative of the word "tiko" (#5088) which means to "give birth," "to bear", "to produce."

    Sure looks like teknon = child.

    So I will ask you, where did you get your definition of the word teknon?
  • Jesse - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    (Part 4:)

    And then you ask am I sure enough with my "newly acquired understanding of a few Greek words" to claim that, as I state, "Judas never surrendered his life to Jesus" and that Judas was "never a true follower"?

    That's sounds sort of condescending. My newly acquired understanding of a few Greek words? Wow! How can you say that when you do not know my understanding of Greek? I've never met you but I'm sure you're a pretty nice guy. If you and I were sitting at a table face to face, I could take the Greek Text which I do own, and I could read it to you like I was reading English, word for word. There are no English words in my Greek bible and I do read it. So I know more than just a few words!

    You tell me to "please do not get too upset when I am challenged on Scriptural matters." I know you are not trying to offend me. And I expect to be challenged. None of us should expect people to agree with everything we say. It does not upset me at all. In fact, we are told to challenge everything we are told when it comes to scripture, just like the Bereans.

    Lastly, you say "Forgiveness is based on being SORRY for what you did and try to make amends (30 pieces of silver). God is the Judge. Ephesians 4:32."

    I'll agree with that on a human level, but not spiritual. God does not expect me to try and make amends for my sin.

    I hope I sufficiently answered your question. You have a great day!
  • Jesse - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    (Part 3:)

    Acts 1:18 says, Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

    You ask me if I know of anyone that can commit suicide by this process? (It is possible).

    You say that Acts 1:18 states that Judas "bowels gushed out." This means that Judas was disemboweled. (Well, it does not say that someone disemboweled him). Acts 1:18 indicates to me that he committed suicide.

    I've heard of three theories as to how he died. Number one, he hung himself but slipped out of the rope and burst open on the rocks below. The second theory is that he hung himself and his dead body became bloated from the heat and that he burst open while hanging. That is pretty "far-fetched!"

    But the archaeological accounts actually say that people who in those days committed suicide, they would go up on a cliff or hillside and they throw themselves down on a pole. They impaled themselves. That's what they believed Judas did. He slit himself right in two and his bowels gushed out. And this was done in the field that the priests purchased with the money that Judas gave back.

    What is my understanding of the unpardonable sin? First of all, Jesus says that no one can come to Him unless the Father draws them to Him. A person cannot come to Christ for salvation unless the Holy Spirit first convicts them of their sin and their need of a Saviour. So when the Holy Spirit convicts a person's heart and shows them that they are a sinner in need of a Saviour, and that person fully rejects the testimony of God's Spirit and their need for Christ, they have committed what is called the unpardonable sin. It's when a person rejects the testimony of God's Spirit showing them their need for Christ. That person cannot be forgiven for that!

    (More to follow)
  • Jesse - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    (Part 2:)

    To answer your other questions, what I am saying about the words Metanoeo and Metamelomai is that even though they are both translated into English as repent, in the Greek they have different meanings, otherwise every Greek word for our English word repent would be the same. One means to just be sorry for the consequences of your actions, and the other speaks of repentance as in making a decision to change the direction of your life, and surrendering your life to Christ. When a person is told they need to repent from their sin, that is the word Metanoeo. When a person is simply sorry for committing a sin, that is the word Metamelomai.

    Is the Bible lying? (No) Was Judas NOT sorry for what he did? (Judas was sorry). Why was the statement made? (Perhaps Judas didn't know that Jesus would freely surrender Himself to this mob that came to take Him. Perhaps maybe Judas thought they would never be able to take Jesus? After 3 years of hanging around Christ, Judas must have seen the miracles and the power Jesus had?). I'm just guessing on this as the bible does not tell us what was on Judas' mind. We do know he was sorry. It must have been a pretty sad thing to see, them carrying away Jesus, and knowing you were the one who told this mob where to find Him).

    Am I sure enough to claim as fact that Judas was sorry but never repented? (I'll just say that I am comfortable saying that.) When it comes to God's word, I am very careful about sharing something and claiming it as "fact." That is one of the scariest things for me, is that I might share something with someone, and mislead them. I know I will stand before God one day and have to give an account for the things I tell people here, or anywhere else for that matter.

    Was I there? (That's funny!) I've been called old before, but I'm not that old!

    Do I know the heart of Judas? (Only Jesus truly knows the heart of man, and He says our hearts are desperately wicked).
  • Jesse - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Hello again Greg,

    You are asking a lot so I will have to break this up to give you an answer. Hopefully I can cover what you're asking. As far as Jesus being God and God being Jesus, I understand that you don't believe that. It's not for me to try and convince you otherwise so I will leave it at that. I do believe Jesus is God.

    You seemed to place a lot of emphasis on my use of the word Teknon. You're saying that I am claiming that Teknon is not defined as "child," and asking what my definition of teknon is?

    I did not make that claim. I know what Teknon means. I don't just look up individual words in a concordance. I actually read Greek. I have a Textus Receptus, and I do read from it on occasion.

    Greg, I was not incorrect on my use of the word Teknon. Please re-read my response. I was simply wondering why you used the word KALOS for child. (Please re-read your post). I know Teknon is used for child. Kalos is not a child. Teknon is a child born by natural human birth. That's why Jesus is never referred to as a Teknon. I believe it was you that got the word for child wrong, not me, although I believe you accidentally said that Kalos meant child. Kalos is a Greek word that means good.

    Thank you taking the time to look up the Strong's definition of the word Teknon. You ask me where I got my definition of the word Teknon from? Well, I didn't look it up in the Strong's Concordance. I read it from the Greek text and I already knew what the word meant. I didn't need to look it up.

    (More to follow)
  • Greg - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Jesse,

    Page 2

    I believe that we are then given information concerning when the Holy Spirit might speak through us as well as how we are to prepare for it in Mark 13:11

    "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost."

    I believe this applies specifically to the end times, but it can also be applied in a general way to the trials and tribulations a person endures throughout their own life, and their desire, or lack thereof, to seek Jesus; similar, in a sense, to your point of view.

    Persecution of God's people has never ended since the Fall of Adam. There is, thank God, only one Great Tribulation for mankind to have to go through.

    Concerning your understanding of Greek, I am sorry if I sounded condescending. Being zealous has never seemed to help my cause, nor has my built in northeast sarcasm.

    Concerning Judas, (and for anyone for that matter), I would rather error on the side of the power of repentance and forgiveness, and again lean on Scripture concerning him being sorry for his actions and taking steps to repair the offence (Matthew 27:3)

    If I am able to make up for an error against my neighbor, I hope that I would make every effort to do so while I am still in this mortal body. James 2:14-26, Revelation 14:13, etc.

    Thanks again Jesse for your time.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Greg,

    No problem with the miscommunication. As I stated, when I first read where you said Kalos = child, I knew you had to accidentally put that there. I'm sure you already knew Kalos was not the word for child, even though a child can be Kalos (Good), sometimes!

    I agree with the King James that Judas "repented himself" but it was not the same repentance required for salvation. The word repent as was used for Judas was not the same word for repent in places where the bible says "Repent and be baptized." This word repent (Metanoeo) is true repentance and is the word that's used every time it is associated with salvation. So Judas repenting himself meant that he was only sorry for his actions.

    We don't get that from our English bibles. I think that's where we run into problems sometimes with our English texts. We see a word in English and we automatically attach our English understanding to not knowing the Greek uses a word that means something different than what we understand in English.

    I agree fully with the persecution issue. Jesus said we can expect that. But just like Paul, we should count it all joy when we are being persecuted. That's sounds odd, but the way I see it, they are not persecuting me, they are persecuting Christ who lives in me. That's how I know I can count it as joy. And that's why Jesus said, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" Saul was persecuting Christians but Jesus said why are you persecuting me?

    And I understand the being zealous part. It never worked too well for me either. I've come to a point in my walk with the Lord where I just sit back and go along for the ride and whatever path He puts me on. I love sailboats (Pictures, models, you name it). They remind me of a time when I was "on fire" as they say, and my motor was running non-stop. But I've since turned off the motor, hoisted up the sail, and let the wind (God's Spirit) take me wherever He might take me.

    Anyways,

    I've also enjoyed talking with you. God Bless!!!
  • More On Judas Iscariot - in Reply on Isaiah 13:10
    Back up and look at my comment on the prophesy in Psalms about Judas Iscariot.

    God bless you as you go forward.

    I found that by using the "center of the page" reference columns. The little alphabet letters. They pull in additional information about the scripture... which is how I found the prophesy.

    Mishael


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