Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Robert Marino on Genesis 10
    Hi Chris,

    I have been real busy. You sound kind of post-trib or pre-wrath to me when you mentioned God's wrath in your comment. There is no reason to put a gap in 1st Thess. 4:13-18 just because harpazo and parousia are in verses 15 and 17. The Bible doesn't do that so we shouldn't do that. It seems to me that the rapture is THAT particular resurrection whether you want to believe in more than one. Yes, there is no gap in that passage just like there is no gap in Genesis 1:1 and verse 2 thta some scholars magically put in there ignoring grammar, context and the word yom.

    I believe it is this way.

    1. Satan pours out his wrath for 3 1/2 years based on Revelation stating a 3 1/2 year time period, not a 7 year that supposedly wasn't fulfilled in Daniel 9:24 - 27 because the Bible clearly states that Jesus died in the middle of the 70th week if you follow the antecedent of 'he' in verse 27 as it points to Matthew, 23's curse. This is why verse 27 in Daniel 9 doesn't say abomination but plural abominationS. This verse has nothing to do with a future antichrist but is Jesus Himself as that is what the passage is about and fulfills all the warnings of Matthew 20, 21, 22, and 23.The abominationS is the return to animal sacrifice for 40 years after Jesus died.

    2. God pours out his wrath with plagues for an indeterminate amount of time. We know ONE plague lasts 5 months alone so my guess is at least a few years to ten or more. The Bible doesn't state either way. My question for you here is since this is typology of the time God brought Israel out of Egypt, 1. where were the children of Israel at the time of the plagues?, Answer: still in Egypt and Egypt is a type of the world.

    3. Grapes of WRATH. THE RETURN OF JESUS. This wrath really is the beginning of judgment where the wicked are taken first as in the days of Noah.

    God Bless!
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Robert, your comment appeared in a new thread, so wasn't able to reference the original. Anyway, I'll try to comment at face value at what you've written here.

    1. I believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture, believing that God's Wrath upon the Earth is directed solely to those deserving it (those living in wickedness & rejecting Christ). If (true) believers are also subject to that Wrath, then one has to wonder why we have to be judged for our sins again. I know we suffer tribulation throughout our earthly lives (as even Jesus warned), but we are dealing with a special occasion of God's Anger upon all godless.

    2. Re: Daniel 9:26,27. I think I'm reading correctly from your comment that it is Jesus that is seen in this passage. We see the Messiah cut off (v26) & then "the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city". Are you seeing Jesus here as well? Then who are the "people of Jesus (the prince)" that shall come to destroy? You said that "this has nothing to do with a future anti-Christ". And if v27 refers to Jesus, doesn't this aspect of 'confirming the covenant' resemble anti-Christ's plan to go against Israel & introduce his own abominations to desecrate the Temple?

    3. I understand your typology of Egypt & Israelites living there in spite of the plagues. However, is this a correct analogy? In the case of Egypt, they indeed suffered with the various plagues, but they continued on as a nation, except for the loss of some life & death of their first born children & animals. It was indeed God's Wrath but Pharaoh finally relented. The picture of the loss of life & destruction of the land bears little resemblance to what the Great Tribulation will accomplish in the future. I liken it to resembling the full devastation of the Flood or of Sodom & Gomorrah where all life was annihilated except for those righteous ones.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Daniel 9:24, 25 and 26a and 27a and 27b is all about the Messiah Jesus.

    Daniel 26b and 27c is Titus and the roman army. YOu can say that 27c is both Jesus and Titus because God always used Israel's enemies to punish them and Jesus pronounced that punishment on the nonbelievers. Hope this helps break it down for you.

    Daniel 9:26a And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

    Daniel 9:26b and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    B= General/Prince Titus who led the armies of Rome to destroy Jerusalem in 70 AD. He became a prince overnight when his dad Vespasian became Caesar of Rome. All historical. Has nothing to do with a future antichrist.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Chris thought you might find this interesting.

    When will or When did the last 3 Years of Daniel Chapter 9 get Fulfilled?

    Choice One:

    7th Day Adventists take the 'Stephen principle' dying 3 1/2 years after Jesus was crucified thus fulfilling all 70 weeks of Daniel chapter nine's 490 year timeline or what is called the 70 prophetic weeks with each week equaling 7 years. The problem I have with this view although it could be true is that it cannot be proven Biblically or historically when the evangelist Stephen was stoned to death. It really stems from their prophetess Ellen G. Whites supposed vision. I am not going to put my faith in something that cannot be proven with the Bible and Ellen had some false prophecies.

    Choice Two:

    I hold to the 3 1/2 year war that ended in 70 AD with Jesus giving the unsaved Jews an extra 40 years to repent and believe upon Him as their Messiah. I do so because it, what was known as The Great Revolt, lasted 3 1/2 years, so it is historical, and it also fulfills part of the Daniel 9:24-27 prophecy as the prophecy not only talks about Messiah coming and dying for sins but also that the 2nd temple would be destroyed which obviously means that Messiah had to come before the 2nd temple was destroyed. There is no getting around that. This prophecy also matches nicely with all the parables, and warnings Jesus gave the Jews in Matthew chapters 20, 21, 22, and 23.

    CHOICE 3:

    The Book of Revelation talks about a 3 year period. Whether this is an entirely different 3 years than the 490 years of Daniel chapter nine's 70 weeks prophecy or not I feel cannot be proven either way. A 'full preterist' would say this portion of Revelation was already fulfilled in 70 AD also. I have some problems with that. I tend to hold to Revelation's 3 years as different than the Daniel 9 490 years because it seems to be dealing with a different group of people and Messiah had already come and died for sins. I think choice two is the most logical.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Robert, I can't tell one way or the other about the 3 1/2 yrs. I find that there isn't enough historical information given to place some of these events exactly to how I think they should be. And when we need to refer to both OT & NT references, some of the timeline of events seems to get blurred or lost. So, I would rather not commit to this as I know, I would invariably be in error.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    You don't have to commit to any of them. There may be another answer then the three I have posted. Those are the only three possibilities I can see with the history I do know, and with scripture and what I have heard others teach. I lean to the 2nd choice as it fits Daniel 9's two main things

    messiah dying for sins and the 2nd temple being destroyed. And the war just happened to be 3 1/2 years long from fall of 66AD to spring of 70AD. It fits perfectly in my eyes.

    The one thing I do know is we cannot derive a 7 year time period from Daniel 9 but we may be able to derive a future 31/2 years. 3 1/2 is an incomplete number. It is possible that it can be a double fulfillment 3 1/2 years- one for 70 AD and one for way in the future. I never thought about that till now. I know that would get the full preterists mad at me for doing that.
  • Aidan Melody - in Reply on Genesis 10
    There will always be a last seven years but they have nothing to do with the seventy weeks of weeks for Jesus fulfilled the seventeenth week.
  • Aidan Melody - in Reply on Genesis 10
    The two witnesses have three and a half years,The beast that comes up from the sea in revelation also has three and a half years,this beast attacks and kills the two witnesses because the world will see them as two demons who are tormenting the world,Now it does not state if they arise at the same time or if the witnesses are at the end of their time when the beast kills them,I think they are at the end of their time when they are killed and this is the time the holy spirit is also taken away and satans time begins,I thick satans time is the tribulation and gods one year of wrath is the great tribulation,Before gods year of wrath the true believers are either dead or are being taken care of because they will not endure gods wrath,The one year of gods wrath could also be part of the last seven years or else satans time gods one year and jesus time are the last seven years.
  • Aidan Melody - in Reply on Genesis 10
    There is only one god and there is only one son of god and the son does the will of the one god who is his father,Until you have this faith you are only teaching yourself because you do not have the holy spirit to teach you all things.
  • Mishael - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Everyone need to consider truth: your freedoms are GONE now. No assurance of utilities, fuel for the car, food or Toilet Paper!! Antichrist can use GPS to Track you to your cell phones. Get rid of them. Soon it will be a death sentence to own a Bible. Gather and hide all the Bible's you can. Hide in the hills, in caves. All water is going to be turned to BLOOD. A human being can live a month without food; but only 3-4 days without water. Nuclear exchanges will contaminate all water if it's not covered. It will turn to blood.

    There is no medal of valor for being left behind! Skip the whole thing by bending your knee to Jesus Christ NOW !!

    All the people left on earth will be slaves to Antichrist. People who want to slaughter billions of people. It's the Holocaust to the 10th Power.

    You wouldn't come to Jesus when it was easy. You wouldn't read His love letter (the Bible), when it was being given away on street corners.....

    You can confess God at any time during the Tribulation and be saved: but you're still stuck on earth, facing certain destruction of your earthly body.

    Trust Jesus now!!!!!! PRIDE is one of the six sins that God Hates. Why? Because it hurts you!

    Little detour here. I want you to experience what JOY it is to be turned on to Jesus. If y'a like a Little Rock music? Have a listen to a song by Darrell Mansfield on YouTube:

    BIBLE STUDY.

    A lot of you think heaven is going to be ultra orthodox southern Baptist, but I don't think so!

    Check it out kids. It's kids getting in trouble for the Right Thing! :D

    Since you're there already, listen to Our Time Now, by Carman. All true.

    Love you guys
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    In my opinion, I think the two witnesses are going to be witnessing the SAME 3 1/2 years as antichrist's reign.

    Remember how Moses and Aaron stood before Pharoah? MY opinion.

    YOu:

    I thick satans time is the tribulation and gods one year of wrath is the great tribulation,Before gods year of wrath the true believers are either dead or are being taken care of because they will not endure gods wrath,The one year of gods wrath could also be part of the last seven years or else satans time gods one year and jesus time are the last seven years."

    Me:

    Persecution, tribulation adn suffering is what the church goes through. Great tribulation is Satans' wrath. I see it this way after many years of study.

    Three wraths.

    1. FIRST WRATH: Satan's wrath or what we call in modern times Great Tribulation which is 3 1/2 years

    2. SECOND WRATH: God the Father's wrath poured out on the wicked with plagues to try to bring the last few to repentance. This time period I don't see a specific number of years. We know the one plague lasts 5 months and it is on the wicked but there are 6 more plagues. Could it be another 3 1/2 years? Yes. But I don't see where the Bible states that. It's possible God the Father's wrath will only be 2 years but could also be over a 10 to 20 year time period for all we know. I just don't see ONE New Testament scripture that gives an exact time period so I don't want to be dogmatic on that.

    3. THIRD WRATH: The Son of God'S WRATH. The Son of God comes to earth right before rapturing us off at the end of the the Father's wrath. He comes with a rod of iron and this of course is called The DAY of the Lord. I'm open to this to being more than ONE day but I would think it would last ONE day because Jesus, 2/3rds of the angels and all the saints are coming and it won't take long to bring justice with an army that vast and having ALL POWER.

    this is how I see it trying to not add or take away from scripture. I don't want to read into it eisogetically.
  • Aidan Melody - in Reply on Genesis 10
    You may read and study a lot but Gods Wrath is one year long for it is the day of the lord and in that day God carries out his wrath,in bible prophesy a day usually equals one year and as this verse is dealing in normal years so to is God.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    You could be right but Jeremiah's 70 years was 70 years and not 25,550 days. It isn't always the case. I wouldn't make it a rule of thumb on every passage that says a day.

    We know the one plague is before Jesus comes back and it says 5 months long. It is literally giving the number of months and we wouldn't add to that.

    God Bless.
  • Aidan Melody - in Reply on Genesis 10
    In my humble opinion there is only one seal left to be opened and that seal is the seventh seal which is when god stands up and shakes the world in his wrath/anger,This is followed by the year of gods wrath and at the very end of his wrath jesus returns on gods seventh trumpet.Jesus does not take over this present world for he told pilate his kingdom is not of this world,so he must be returning to the restored world as it was in adams time or else he lied,Tribulation starts when the recovered beast comes up from the sea,This recovered beast is the recovered holy roman empire for it was this empire that received the mortal wound but it recovers.The woman riding and directing this beast is the church in rome but god directs the ten kings over the ten nations of europe to attack and to destroy her,This recovered beast from the sea was a trinity believing empire who brutally imposed her trinity doctrine on the people and it will do the same again for it denies the one true god and it denies gods only true son jesus,Along with the sunday worship of god these are the recovered beast core doctrines which now the many are following and this is why satan is able to turn gods two witnesses into two demons whose deaths the world rejoices at,Now is your time to awake to the truth of this soon to come recovered beast from the sea and to believe in the one true god who is the father of his only son jesus whom he sent for our salvation which is the true eternal gospel the two witnesses will be trying to get the world to awaken to.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    In my humble opinion the fourth seal definitely has not been opened yet.

    The fourth horseman has a fifth rider. My take on this is this is the false prophet and the antichrist. They have not been revealed yet. Time will tell Aidan.

    Revelation 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

    Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

    Notice the pronoun THEM in verse 8. "...Power given unto THEM..."

    DEATH=ANTICHRIST

    HELL= FALSE PROPHET.

    How I see it. Notice 5th seal. Many Christians will be killed BECAUSE OF THEM of the fourth seal. There are 5 riders fo the apocalypse. 4th seal is riders 4 and 5. Everyone ignores that fifth rider in their theology.

    Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

    Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

    You are a Christian right?

    God Bless.
  • Stanjett - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Many question who the two witnesses will be. The bible don't say. They could be anyone. Maybe you and me. Some think Moses and Elijah or two of the old prohets. No one knows until they come.
  • P T Jones - in Reply on Genesis 10
    The two witnesses are Old Testaments and New Testaments. The explanation is given in Zechariah chapter 4. Verse 14 "Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth".
  • Bob Hilt - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

    There is one prophet who is one of the two witnesses
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    i totally agree. John the Baptist came and was like unto Elijah but not the actual Elijah. It could be any two people for whom God chooses.

    We support two preachers that occasionally go and preach in Jerusalem. They get kicked, spit on, lives threatened, threatened with imprisonment which would happen if we didn't send so much money over there. Nothing has changed over there. Anyhow, maybe they are the two. We just don't know.

    One of the guys we support we just noticed recently went to about 15 major US Cities wearing sackloth calling America to repent. He has seen in vision Russian planes flying over America. Years ago Pastor David Wilkerson in 1973 gave a long 50 minute prophecy and just about everything came to pass now. One was US Cities burning. The church must repent first.

    Many American Christians are doing wickedly-they help steal land from Christian Palestinians, and many are sending money to build a 3rd temple (enough has already been sent to build 7 temples) when God made an end of sacrifice in 30 AD and destroyed all attempts since in 70 AD and again in 363 AD with tornadoes, earthquakes and fire coming from beneath every time they tried to rebuild under Emperor Julians' command to go rebuild. The church has much to repent of that is blasphemy in the eyes of God so we WILL see judgment if things don't change. These are just a few of the sins no one wants to talk. There is a pretty high rate of woman in the church having abortions now. That was unheard of 30 years ago. We in the church shouldn't need an Elijah or Moses to bring us to repentance. WE should search our hearts regularly. Judgment begins at the house of God. We need to be praying about getting our own lives right INDIVIDUALLY. I say individually because we are seeing the great apostasy Jesus said would happen as one of the last signs already in the churches, Bible colleges, etc. Jerusalem is not going to be the only nation judged in the end (Revelation 11); all nations will be judged.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Hi Aidan,

    Can you show me 7 years somewhere in the New Testament. I see 3 1/2 years in Revelation. Am I missing something on that? You are correct. 70 weeks were fulfilled. that is how I see it. The word AFTER in verse 26 puts Jesus' death right int he middle of the 70th week in verse 27 because 7 weeks were already fulfilled before the mentioning of the next 62 weeks.
  • Mishael - in Reply on Genesis 10
    You need to talk to Michelle in the prayer request room. She lives in Canada but has a desire to move to Australia.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    So in summary, there was only 3 1/2 years left after Jesus died in the 490 year timeline. Question is, was it fulfilled in

    1. Stephens' death (there is no way to prove historically or Biblically that Stephen was killed an exact 3 1/2 years after Jesus. But I am open to this idea.

    2. This is my take. The Great Revolt War that lasted 3 1/2 years from the fall of 66 AD to the spring of 70 AD; the Stay of Execution extra 40 years. 40 means trials and temptations in the Bible. even the demonic Jooish Talmud admits to the scarlet wool never turning white again from 40 years before the destruction of Jerusalam in Yoma 39b. This was a supernatural sign that God did after the Day of atonement. It never happened again after Jesus' death. This proves the abominationS in Daniel 9:27 has to be what the killing of animals again, not what ONE man way in the future was going to do. Even building a third temple is an abomination. See what God did to this attempt in 363 AD. I fear so many Christians are heading for major judgment for sending money to have this done.

    3. A way in the future 3 1/2 years. The new testament does talk about a 3 1/2 year period of tribulation in the future. Question is, is it a totally different 3 1/2 years than the 3 1/2 years that was left after Jesus' death?

    I hold to #2 as it fits perfectly with Daniel 9:24-27. I hold to a 40 year gap from 486 1/2 years to the 490 years because the passage not only talks about the death of the Messiah but also the destruction of Jerusalem so it keeps with the context of the passage.

    Great Tribulation coming upon the whole church will be 3 1/2 years as far as the persecution upon the entire church goes as many int he world have been under great tribulation since day one of being saved. Then God's wrath will be poured out with the plagues. Then Jesus the Son's wrath will be poured out at His return right after we are taking up.

    How I see it.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Thanks Robert for your lengthy, detailed response. I will come back to it, once I've given it the required consideration & allocating the time to do so. Appreciate your time in this.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    God Bless. Check everything I said out. Check everything everyone says out. I've struggled with some fo those verses for a long time. it all makes sense now. Have a good one. Put a priority on winning souls. I think we are running out of time. I do believe there is a double-fulfillment with certain prophecies.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Robert, I spent some time this evening poring through your notes, even looking at other expositors' notes on this passage: chiefly Barnes' commentary. I can understand what you've said in light of the timeline given & its application to that period of Christ's coming, death & Titus' destruction of Jerusalem. It was very enlightening indeed as we are quite easily led to apply Daniel 9:27 to the coming Anti-Christ given 2 Thes 2:4: "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God". However, I can now see, with your help & instruction, that the actual setting of Daniel 9 is not of the future events (though, "even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate" (v 27b) can be seen to reference the Lord's Wrath yet to be revealed).

    So, my thanks once again Robert for guiding me into the Light of this portion of Scripture.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Barnes is one of the really good commentaries too. I do believe there is one final antichrist. Full preterism rejects this idea but I see a double-fulfillment.

    Some of the early church fathers did believe in some of the things we would call "the futurist view" today. For example, many believed in a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth. They didn't teach a pre-trib rapture though. And they definitely did not divide the church with unsaved Jews as most modern day pre-trib teachers do. In doing so, political zionism has flourished and many Christians in Palestine have been killed and maimed for life. According to Paul, once the New Covenant was confirmed (Daniel 9:27) there is NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK FOR WE ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST. To teach that some Jews would be saved by faith and WORKS during a period of time nullifies the finished work fo Christ on the cross and therefore is heresy. John Hagee is a big teacher on that and teaches DUAL Covenant Theology that teaches that. He threatened to sue Hank Hannegraff about 30 years ago for exposing his false teaching. A brother is not supposed to sue another brother so that didn't speak well of Hagee at all. He went way off the deep end and started to Judaize America after that.

    Some pre-trib teachers try to site TWO of the many early church fathers saying they taught a pre-trib rapture in desperation to find someone pre-1830 but they horribly misquote what they really said and left out a portion of what they said; hopefully, not on purpose as that is very deceptive. Two guys that tried that over the last 5 years were Dr. Gene Kim and Dr. Ken Johnson. I fact-checked them to find out those two early church fathers were at best Mid-trib believers if you read the whole passage of their writings. Gene Kim tends to just parrot what he heard someone else teach without doing his homework. Ken Johnson I was concerned that he got it off. Maybe he never really looked it up either and was parroting one of his college teachers.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Thank you Robert, that was very helpful also. Re: the coming Anti-Christ. One could argue to the actual commencement of the Great Tribulation that is to come upon the whole world (Matthew 24). One thought is that it commences at the revelation of Anti-Christ (2 Thes 2:3 ff); another, that it's only after he begins his onslaught of terror upon those who refuse him & his Mark; and yet another, at the pouring out of God's Wrath upon the Earth (Revelation 6 ff). So, I suppose the inclination to one of these positions primarily determines where one stands in his belief to the timing of the Rapture of the Church. And then of course, the much debated matter whether the Church experiences any or all of the above, with all the Scriptures given to support those views, comes into play. Whichever understanding, the importance of our readiness & longing for His Return is paramount.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    well said. What is your take on WHO will repopulate the earth for a literal millennial reign?

    I ahve certain thoughts on the matter.

    Those who take the mark of course are taken first in Matthew 24 (one is taken and one is left). Of course it was the wicked that were taken "as in the days of Noah".

    We will get our glorified bodies before the millennium so it won't be us.

    I know the modern Sanhedrin is pushing for worldwide Noahide Laws on ONLY Gentiles so if there is a mark of the beast connected to the Noahide Laws and that is where the New World Order is going, then they will be exempt. What is interesting is the Jewish Noahide laws call for beheading of idolators and their rabbis say Christians are the greatest idolators because we practice "partnering" where we make Jesus equal to the Father as we believe in the trinity.

    Another possibility is those that haven't met the age of accountability.

    Some think aborted babies will be sent back to earth to be tested. That sounds a little weird but someone has to repopulate the earth.

    What is your take on this?

    I lean heavily on the Noahide Laws as some Christians have already given themselves over to it, plus the huge growth of the Hebrew Roots Movement where some have even converted to Judaism now and left the Lord (Hebrews 6). You also have the huge uprising of the Black Israelite cults like HOI, SICARII, GMS, ETC.

    God is saving Muslims and masses of them would be saved if it wasn't for the fear of converting. I think many are missing it thinking the antichrist will be a Muslim. We shouldn't care what the Koran teaches. Scripture also calls Jerusalem Sodom and Egypt and it surely is today as it is the gay pride capital of the world now and the number one abortion country in the world "per capita".

    So what do you think? I'm a partial-preterist/partial-futurist/premillennialist. These are my thougths.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Page 2.

    Basically, I see Matthew 24 account of the Last Days as being directed to Israel & not to the Church; I realize that I'm going 'against the current' on this one, but Jesus' hearers were His disciples, His community: the Jews, & His illustrations (e.g. the Fig tree), pertained to them. I don't see the Church here until the apostles refer to her & her position in those latter days. So in this discourse to His disciples, I see: vv 4-14 shows the time from His Ascension to the Gospel proclamation cut-off time. vv 15-20: Anti-Christ's emerging & his impact on Israel. vv 21-29: the Great Tribulation. vv 30-44: Christ's Second Coming. vv 45-51: Judgement against the unrighteous ones. Even though, the Church can learn much from this chapter, as to her preparedness & watchfulness, I still see this directed solely to Israel & the unbelieving world at large as the Church is not seen here, except for references to her (John 10:16: "the other sheep").
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    PART 2:

    Israel is the fig tree in many other verses but not this one. This is what got me really reading God's Word when I found out that 99% of people taught that that verse was speaking of Israel. I found other problems with these teacher's teachings on end times.

    How about "The Time of Jacob's Trouble". It is only mentioned one time in all of scripture and it seems to be something that happened around 2,500 years ago and was already fulfilled. Many verses that have already been fulfilled are being used today as 'future' prophecies. I am open to some being a double fulfillment but I know a full preterist would say to me you can't justify it and they may be right trying to justify an already fulfilled prophecy and saying it has a future fulfillment too. The full futurist would say none of them have been fulfilled which is incorrect. I can go off into dispensationalism and all of that other stuff. You think if there were 7 to 17 dispensations as is taught in the modern pre-trib rapture movement, you think God would have had the word in the Bible at least 7 times but it is only in scripture 4 times and always speaks of the Old and New Covenant so it cannot be justified Biblically.

    All very easily debunkable. Just have to get out the E-sword (free Bible software download) and do a word search, read each passage in its biblical and historical context and presto, you know what it is saying. If I can do it, anyone can. God is not a respector of persons if someone is really seeking truth and God's holiness.

    I just hope some people will start just searching their hearts and asking God to show them if there is anything false in them. As soon as I hear someone say, "we need more than the word of God" I have to question what they are about to say and I think this may be why I originally wrote this article.

    God Bless!

    :?D

    The Sacred Cowtipper (my nickname for newcomers)
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Is Israel the "fig tree" in Matthew 24:32?

    Not sure if you fell for this one, but I did for 30 years. The fig tree in Matthew 24:32 IS NOT Israel. How come so many teachers got that wrong? Is it that they don't know what a metaphor or parable is or were they so lazy as to not read the other two synoptic gospels were a tiny detail was given that totally debunks that? That is what I did for decades - GUILTY!

    This is called a logical fallacy- what they taught CAN'T be true if it contradicts elsewhere. They will continue to teach that though although some no longer use that passage because guys like me showed them they can't and be honest.

    Here it is: Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

    Luke 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; Luke 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. Notice in verse 29, that it has that extra part to it -AND ALL THE TREES.

    This is so easy to interpret. Jesus is merely saying when you see all of these 20 signs I am giving you here HAPPENING ALL AT THE SAME TIME, it is like a fig tree [which is common in that area] and ALL OF THE OTHER TREES getting their spring flowers, the flowers falling off and the leaves shooting forth. Jesus is saying THE END OF THE AGE and MY RETURN will be in that generation.

    He was just making a comparison of natural things around that area. In other words,

    20 SIGNS = END OF AGE AND MY RETURN. It is that simple. How they got this fig tree was Israel IN THIS PARTICULAR VERSE, I don't know. Maybe back to that laziness. I was too lazy to study it for myself and just bought it hook, line and sinker when I was taught it but many who didn't study it for themselves. I was brainwashed for 30 years to believe that because I didn't question the teaching.

    Israel is the fig tree in many other verses but not this one. This is what...
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Good morning Chris. How about we tackle one thing at a time as there are many things in Matthew 24 that I missed for decades that I started seeing differently. Why I call myself a dual fulfillment prophecy person. One of those is that one chapter has three different greek words for the word world and for good reason. I used to think it was always 'cosmos' because I was too lazy to look up every word. Anyhow, let's look at this one fallacy I ran into which was the first thing I noticed I was taught wrongly when I was pre-trib for 30+ years. Here it is.

    Let's take the fig tree in Matthew 24:32. I wrote an article on it a few years back.

    limited on space so I will send in two replies.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Page 1.

    Robert, that's an interesting question: who will repopulate the Earth in the Millennium? You're correct that the "taking away" in verse 39 refers to the wicked of Noah's day, but can that phrase be used in the same way for vv 40, 41?

    One could argue, that Noah too was "taken away" from the flood's destructive work on all living, in which case the farmers & mill grinders would experience the same prospect with the righteous one taken & the unrighteous one left. If this understanding is correct, then the unrighteous who are left are those who will continue into the Millennium. And those taken to be with Christ at His Coming are the elect (v 31) (Israel, not Elect because of salvation, but by God's choosing cf v 22) & they along with the raptured Saints (who come with Christ at His Second Coming) will reign with Him through the Millennium.

    However, if your understanding is correct, that the unrighteous are the ones referred to in vv 40, 41 who are taken away, then there are the various possibilities, as you suggested, as to who will repopulate the Earth during the Millennium. I couldn't even begin to guess the answer to that one. (onto Page 2.)
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Few think about that one. There has to be a reason for a premillennial view and a literal reign of Christ on earth. I hold to a premillennial reign of Christ. There are too many time-specific things to think it was meant to be symbolic and I surely don't see any children leading a lion around in our zoos, do you so full preterism has a problem with that.

    There has to be those who are going to rule and reign with Christ on earth and Paul tells us that it will be the Christians who were faithful and living for the Lord and there has to be those whom they will rule and reign over. Without abortion , war, and murder going on for 1,000 years, we may see a population that reaches a trillion people. Plus all the women will be healthy with no miscarriages and probably having several babies each instead of one or two.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Robert, that was a lot of work you put in, so my thanks. But I'll keep my comments to the point.

    Re: the Fig Tree. I agree with you that in these portions (Matthew 24 & Luke 21) the Fig tree is not Israel but used as part of Jesus' illustration to reveal the signs pointing to His second coming, though I don't see those devastations happening 'all at the same time'. If one had to consider the rate of time between the two, I would think that a fig tree in its season, would bud & fruit far quicker than the fulfilling of all those occurrences prior to His Coming. So I just accept it as an illustration rather than to apply a time rate to it. So "Behold the fig tree, and all the trees": I understand the "all the trees" as Jesus' emphasis as to the abundance of evidence that 'summer is nigh' = His Coming.

    And of course "generation" (Matthew 24:34) can't apply to only those living at that time, but to the 'Jewish people' who experienced the start of their troubles from AD 70 (v 2) & onwards. His disciples must have thought at the time, that Emperor Titus' invasion was about to fulfil Jesus' discourse, but of course, it was only the start of their troubles, with much worse to come, climaxing in the future.

    Re: those who are "taken away" (Matthew 24:39-41). If those who are 'taken away' are those who receive the beast's mark, then to where are they taken? Is it to their death, to some other location awaiting sentence or with mark removed, now comprising the 'nations' after the Tribulation? (Revelation 20:3,8; 21:24)? We understand that many will die during the Tribulation period & the Lord Himself will destroy the beast, the false prophet & the armies that come against Him (Revelation 19:19-21), but can we assume that all human life will perish at this time, or will there be some that remain to re-populate the Earth (& noted what you suggested in this regard)? So, I'm unsure whether I've adequately responded to your pages of comments, but wanted to condense it all to one page.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Re: those who are "taken away" (Matthew 24:39-41). If those who are 'taken away' are those who receive the beast's mark, then to where are they taken? Is it to their death, to some other location awaiting sentence or with mark removed, now comprising the 'nations' after the Tribulation? (Revelation 20:3,8; 21:24)? We understand that many will die during the Tribulation period & the Lord Himself will destroy the beast, the false prophet & the armies that come against Him (Revelation 19:19-21), but can we assume that all human life will perish at this time, or will there be some that remain to re-populate the Earth (& noted what you suggested in this regard)? So, I'm unsure whether I've adequately responded to your pages of comments, but wanted to condense it all to one page."

    Me:

    I believe Hades is still around. Abraham's bosom is gone as the dead in Christ rose with Jesus as the first fruits 2,000 years ago. Hades has to be in existence still. Check this verse out.

    Psalms 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell (Hades), and all the nations that forget God.

    Revelation 20:14 And death and hell (Hades) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    No one is in the lake of fire yet. Although the false prophet and antichrist get to be thrown in 1,000 years before everyone else.

    Rev_19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    Rev_20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet ARE (these two men were already in for 1,000 years), and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    And of course "generation" (Matthew 24:34) can't apply to only those living at that time, but to the 'Jewish people' who experienced the start of their troubles from AD 70 (v 2) & onwards. His disciples must have thought at the time, that Emperor Titus' invasion was about to fulfil Jesus' discourse, but of course, it was only the start of their troubles, with much worse to come, climaxing in the future.

    Me:

    But you are forgetting that unsaved Jews do not read the New Testament. Very few even read the Old Testament and almost never without following the commentaries of the unsaved rabbis who didn't even know the 490 year timeline and rejected their own messiah. Matthew 24 was not going to do anyone who were not even going to read it any good. WHO was Jesus' answering? James, Peter, John and Andrew. Always take "How would have those the book was originally written to have taken or understood what was said". It was written to Christians, or I guess I should say those who were going to be born again within the next few months.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 10
    You: "But you are forgetting that unsaved Jews do not read the New Testament, etc. etc."

    Me: I wasn't implying that the Jews or the disciples read the NT - of course it didn't exist. But by what the disciples heard from Jesus during His discourses, including whatever the general populace heard at various times, would have been recalled at the marching in of Titus & his armies. And all the subsequent events that Jesus spoke about would have hung over the disciples' heads as they waited for Jesus' Words to be fulfilled. And all the events that Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24 applied to "that whole generation of Jews (all Jewry)" not just those living at that time, & of course, it was prophecy that had far reaching application to the rest of the world.

    Then Matthew 24:15: "the abomination of desolation, spoken by Daniel" arises. Is it referencing Daniel 12:11 or Daniel 9:27, or both? You mentioned that Daniel 9:27 applied to Jesus Who "causes the sacrifices to cease, etc.", so the mention of the 'abomination of desolation' in Matthew 24:15 becomes intriguing.

    Those in Judea are to 'flee to the mountains, etc.' (Matthew 24:16-20): reference to the Jews. And after this, there will be Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:11). Of course, this Tribulation hasn't happened yet, unless the rest of us missed it altogether. So all these show me that Jesus was applying His prophecies specifically to Israel, with the broader implications to the rest of us.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    I believe a double fulfillment of the time of jacob's trouble is coming but we are the ones already beginning to be persecuted. There are three things Biblically we are persecuted "because of".



    1. For MY NAME'S SAKE. You have to be a follower of Jesus.

    2. For godliness sake. The new US Embassy in Jerusalem just blessed the gay pride over there.

    3. For my word's sake. They follow the modern Sanhedrin 70 just like they followed the oral law of the 70 elders instead of Moses most of the time throughout old testament history. Modern Judaism is Talmudic and kabbalah.

    I don't see how a natural nation fits what Jesus said was true Biblical persecution nor does the modern state fit any of it. Most pre-trib teachers do what I call "Newspaper Eschatology" but when you do it and bring stuff like this up, they ignore you and act like what you are saying is not true. Chris, when you tell them there is more natural Jewish blood in Palestine than in Israel, they don't know what to say but two DNA tests done by two different Jewish DNA scientists have proven this over the last 20 years. They plan on doing a study in Iran. That is a whole other subject that isn't going to be talked about by Perry Stone, John Hagee and others who want to ignore the 16-legged, 5-eyed pink elephant in the room. If it doesn't fit their theology, they won't talk about it nor do they want their followers to learn about it. They purposely keep black Jews from Ethiopia and Etrithea from moving into Israel. I can go on and on. This stuff is written in their own newspapers like Hareetz, Jerusalem Post, etc. A good example of a famous pre-trib teacher that did this was Jack Van IMpe who I watched blindly for years. He always quoted what he wanted to quote out of those two newspapers but when I started seeing what else they said in their own newspapers I came to realize Van IMpe didn't want his audience to know the things he didn't want them to know because it would have created problems for his ministry.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Thanks for all that interesting, valuable information Robert. Most of us will never know these things until someone else who has researched into the state (condition) of present day Israel, informs us. Appreciate your time & knowledge on this.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    you:

    Then Matthew 24:15: "the abomination of desolation, spoken by Daniel" arises. Is it referencing Daniel 12:11 or Daniel 9:27, or both? You mentioned that Daniel 9:27 applied to Jesus Who "causes the sacrifices to cease, etc.", so the mention of the 'abomination of desolation' in Matthew 24:15 becomes intriguing.

    Me:

    Yes, abominations is plural in Daniel 9:27, not singular. Can't use that one and stay intellectually honest. I don't have all the answers. I just try to never add or take away from the word of God. And there is that nasty "S" in the original manuscripts in Daniel 9:27.

    What do you think of the eagle symbol the Roman Army had? Could that be the where you see the eagles gather? We take it as literal eagles. But Jesus is going to incinerate the earth which wold cleanse everything. Just a thought I just thought of so as Inigo Montoya in the Princess Bride movie once said to Vizzini, "I don't know your thinkum is what your thinkum is" or something like that. LOL.

    YOU:

    Those in Judea are to 'flee to the mountains, etc.' (Matthew 24:16-20): reference to the Jews. And after this, there will be Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:11). Of course, this Tribulation hasn't happened yet, unless the rest of us missed it altogether. So all these show me that Jesus was applying His prophecies specifically to Israel, with the broader implications to the rest of us."

    Me: Fulfilled in 70 AD with signs as historically written of outside of the Bible. ALL the Christians in Jerusalem escaped when the Roman Army made its last push. 1.1 million unsaved Jews stayed in Jerusalem and were slaughtered, and 90,000 were sold into slavery, some mothers were eating their children to feed their other children. About 2 million were killed leading up to and including this final battle. So about 2/3rds of the Jewish population worldwide was wiped out. Many scholars believe this was the time of Jacob's trouble because percentage-wise way more Jews were killed than the Holocaust and in a much much worse way.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Good Morning Chris. WE finally got a much-needed all night shower up here in the north.

    I was jsut saying that it would be a day late and a dollar short if the antichrist has already risen to power for an unsaved Jewish person to read what has already been mostly fulfilled in Matthew 24. Remember there are three different greek words in Matthew 24 for the word WORLD. The word oikenume means Roman Empire so the apostles did preach the gospel to the entire Roman Empire by 70 AD. That has been fulfilled. But like I said, I believe there is a double fulfillment with many things in this chapter that we in our time will experience, one of those being preaching the gospel to the whole world.

    I have evangelized many of Jew, and they hate the New Testament. They call the Old Testament, the ONLY Testament. I hit them with "Then why does the Bible Numerics phenomenon underlie the entire text of the New Testament which proves God's authorship?" I don't get an answer. Try that some time when trying to reach them whether converted Khazar jews from southern russia from 800 AD that are the ones who mostly live in Israel today or the more natural Jews, most living in other countries. Pre-trib teachers don't like mentioning that one to their followers.

    get back to you on the other thing you said.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 10
    You: "I believe there is a double fulfillment with many things in this chapter that we in our time will experience, one of those being preaching the gospel to the whole world."

    This is probably where a lot of error & misunderstanding comes up: how to dissect correctly what has been fulfilled & what is yet to come. In our natural mind, we tend to read things as a developing story, & so what was prophesied to occur prior to & at the arrival/destruction by the Roman Army in AD70, then also speaks about a great tribulation, which no doubt meant great suffering to the Jews at that time (i.e. from Matthew 24:20 to the change in v 21). And the thought of the great tribulation is continued from there to v31, which clearly hasn't happened in its fullest sense. So much speculation arises, different teaching, & sometimes a trail of confused believers as to what is actually going on here. I just have to accept that post Cross, there was & will always be much suffering from the hands of wicked men (spirit of anti-Christ), & we must simply believe that all the prophecies given must be fulfilled according to the declarations by God.

    You: "I have evangelized many a Jew, and they hate the New Testament."

    As I have done to a lesser extent than you, in ministry to Muslims in Pakistan, who likewise discount the whole Bible as 'filled with errors' in 'light of the revelation given by the Quran'. My approach has always been to begin on common ground (on which there is much) & even using the Quran to establish foundational truths, so that progress (= more light) can be made & seen. Of course, one's own knowledge has to be very good & the hearer must also be inclined to learn. Sadly, deficiency in both areas, prevents a meaningful discourse taking place.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    ME ORIGINALLY: "I have evangelized many a Jew, and they hate the New Testament."

    ME NOW: This is one of the reasons why I say the church will be here as the church has read this passage many times and it was relevant tot he first century church and it seems to be becoming relevant to the last generation whcih I believe we are.

    YOU: As I have done to a lesser extent than you, in ministry to Muslims in Pakistan, who likewise discount the whole Bible as 'filled with errors' in 'light of the revelation given by the Quran'. My approach has always been to begin on common ground (on which there is much) & even using the Quran to establish foundational truths, so that progress (= more light) can be made & seen. Of course, one's own knowledge has to be very good & the hearer must also be inclined to learn. Sadly, deficiency in both areas, prevents a meaningful discourse taking place."

    ME: Awesome! God is reaching a lot of muslims right now. I do talk to a few of them myself but I am sure not like you. We may not see the fruit of our efforts till we get to the otherside. So we keep on trucking for Jesus. You never know who you will reach. Do you ever listen to apologetics 17. He can be a let rough on Muslims be he is reaching them. David Woods is his name. I do the common ground thing with Muslims and go ahead with saying Isa adn then proving through Old Testament prophecies that Isa had to be the Messiah and had to die. David is rough, brash and tough but God is using it with him. I can't believe he hasn't been killed yet.

    I found out last week that a lot of the mystical side of Judaism has taught that God has a son except they call him Metatron. Many fo the prophecies Jesus fulfilled they attribute to Metatron. I was blown away. It is the modern day judaism that has attacked this idea. The mystics at least got that right.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Hi Robert, good to catch up again. I fully realize that we all have many commitments so wasn't expecting any responses, though I had thought about you in the interim & trusted the Lord that you were well. So thanks for the added comments & no, I haven't heard of David Wood - will check him out.

    I'm sure you too have many great stories to tell in your encounters with those of other faiths. And all these are not to bring us into the limelight, but all praise to the Lord Who superintends our ways.

    I remember at one time in Karachi, Pakistan, my team were out on our daily book sales & tract distribution to Muslims. I wasn't having a good day, so thought to try for a sale at a bookshop. The owner was so interested in my literature, he bought my whole shoulder bag full of books & tracts! So, I went back to the team empty-handed & with praise for what the Lord had done. But, the Lord's Ways were beyond my limited sight at that time. On my way back from that sale, I turned around for some reason & noticed that that wasn't an ordinary bookshop, but was one attached to a Mosque & the central point for the sale of Islamic literature. Had I been aware of this fact, I would have quickly retreated, but the Lord had other plans for me & them. So, the Lord in His Providence had directed me to a Mosque to sell Christian books, they bought everything, they then sold those books unknowingly to other Muslims responding to the call for prayer (i.e. they helped in getting out the Word when I couldn't), & there may well be lost souls now finding the Saviour's Love. Jeremiah 32:27: "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?" What an amazing God we serve, Who just needed a pair of hands & legs to get His Word out to those appointed to Life. And a little 'icing on the cake': I got out of there with my life & He also answered our prayers that morning as we had all but run out of cash to survive.

    What the Lord can do with His trusting children!
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    I remember at one time in Karachi, Pakistan, my team were out on our daily book sales & tract distribution to Muslims. I wasn't having a good day, so thought to try for a sale at a bookshop. The owner was so interested in my literature, he bought my whole shoulder bag full of books & tracts! So, I went back to the team empty-handed & with praise for what the Lord had done. But, the Lord's Ways were beyond my limited sight at that time. On my way back from that sale, I turned around for some reason & noticed that that wasn't an ordinary bookshop, but was one attached to a Mosque & the central point for the sale of Islamic literature. Had I been aware of this fact, I would have quickly retreated, but the Lord had other plans for me & them. So, the Lord in His Providence had directed me to a Mosque to sell Christian books, they bought everything, they then sold those books unknowingly to other Muslims responding to the call for prayer (i.e. they helped in getting out the Word when I couldn't), & there may well be lost souls now finding the Saviour's Love. Jeremiah 32:27: "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?" What an amazing God we serve, Who just needed a pair of hands & legs to get His Word out to those appointed to Life. And a little 'icing on the cake': I got out of there with my life & He also answered our prayers that morning as we had all but run out of cash to survive.

    What the Lord can do with His trusting children!"

    Awesome! Have you ever wrote this down in article form- like 2 to 5 pages long? I would love to send this out to my email-blast readers in Ohio and beyond. I try to encourage people to share their faith. Most are not risking their lives adn should be willing to share the gospel with those around them but 98% do not share their faith regularly.
  • Mishael on BIBLE TRACT ministry - in Reply on Genesis 10
    I'm an old street preacher too. Lately I have noticed unique ways people distribute Chick Tracts and others:

    Outside of a goodwill store I saw one on top of a trash can. Looked brand new. First I almost wept because someone threw away Gods Word. Got in my car and was praying out the pain; and I saw someone throw paper in the can and pick up the tract and take it with them.

    I see tracts on the sidewalk (out of the foot traffic somewhat) and people pick them up!!

    I've seen them on park or bus benches.

    I know street ministry is still alive and well!

    Almost everyone will read a Chick comic type booklet. They're inexpensive too.

    I know they pray over them and ask God to lead people to them. He is the Lord of the Harvest! I hope more people will do this.

    There's even space on it to write your Church's name and address on it.

    Then be praying for your Pastor to hear from God every time he prays and gets his sermon ready for whatever day your Church chooses to assemble on.

    Makes me think of John 3:8

    The wind Blows where it listeth , and Thou hearest the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it comes from or where it goes; so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    All of us older folks should bless the church teens with what they need to spread some love around the neighborhood; if the Church will allow it.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    I go to a Nazarene church and the pastor wants to get me involved seeing my zeal and hands me a book called "Velvet Elvis: Repainting the Christian Faith" by Rob Bell. When the book hit my hand, the Holy Spirit gave me a vision and a word of knowledge. Everything went totally black and the pastor disappeared for that tenth of a second and I saw the word DECEPTION in a 120-font in white and heard the Holy spirit say DECEPTION really loud in my spirit man. I didn't know who Rob Bells was at the time. I read the book adn debunked (Sacred Cowtippered) it. I was one fo the first to preach against the Emergent Church Movement on Youtube and many in the church attacked me. I have had way more persecution from the church than the world- 100 x more. If you have a good church, you are lucky. Most people don't hear the Holy Spirit. Sounds like you do. Nonetheless that pastor that pastored that church of 500 for about 25 years continued down the false road dragging his congregation with him. I hope I helped pull some people out of that mess. Pray for me if I should continue the home bible study or go out and try to find a decent (not perfect) church. The ones with good doctrine are pretty dead spiritually and deny the power fo the Holy Spirit. Those who dont' deny the Holy Spirit's move usually have a lot of bad doctrine. You may not know this but about 20 years ago 30% of pastors in America were addicted to porn and it is way worse now. I don't want them anointing me with oil and I can sure use prayer for healing.

    Makes me think of John 3:8

    The wind Blows where it listeth , and Thou hearest the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it comes from or where it goes; so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    me: amen bro. I am sure glad ot meet brothers like you. It doesn't happen too often.

    All of us older folks should bless the church teens with what they need to spread some love around the neighborhood; if the Church will allow it."

    Me:be the example and hope othrs follow
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    There's even space on it to write your Church's name and address on it.

    Then be praying for your Pastor to hear from God every time he prays and gets his sermon ready for whatever day your Church chooses to assemble on.

    me: I couldn't handle a lot of false doctrine and/or compromise anymore. I quit going to church about 3 years ago and started a home bible study. This is where a lot of the church is going to have to go to as things get worse. The home churches in China is why the gospel spread so fast there. State churches there are for show and tell so Christianized nations will do business with China thinking there is no persecution anymore. 99.99% of all churches n America are state churches (501c3) putting themselves under Caesar as the head instead of Christ. We will continue to see them compromise more and more.

    Also, I have been marginalized at every church I went to. I couldn't use my gifts at the SBC church because I didn't JOIN their hierarchy which is borderline communism now and was going that route for about 15 years. Now they are into social justice. I went to a Pentecostal church for a whole year, and was very friendly toward people every week and couldn't make one friend. Worship there wsa awesome; preaching was decent and doctrinally sound for the most part but it was a click. I wonder how many people left there feeling they were not a part of the assembly.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    send new thread. I am having a hard time finding your comments at this point.

    "I'm an old street preacher too. Lately I have noticed unique ways people distribute Chick Tracts and others:

    me: i was saved by reading Chick tracts.

    Outside of a goodwill store I saw one on top of a trash can. Looked brand new. First I almost wept because someone threw away Gods Word. Got in my car and was praying out the pain; and I saw someone throw paper in the can and pick up the tract and take it with them.

    me. God gets it done. I put them everywhere. Satan can't throw all the seed away.

    I see tracts on the sidewalk (out of the foot traffic somewhat) and people pick them up!!

    I've seen them on park or bus benches.

    I know street ministry is still alive and well!

    me: yes, satan can't stop it. I need to get back to carrying the cross. that opens doors. my back hurts pretty bad though. I have an awesome plan that could get the gospel to 1,000's in literally one day.

    Almost everyone will read a Chick comic type booklet. They're inexpensive too.

    me: got about 8,000 on the shelf still. This was Your Life tract.

    I know they pray over them and ask God to lead people to them. He is the Lord of the Harvest! I hope more people will do this.

    me: most Christians will not which Spurgeon said you can't be saved if you don't care about the lost. They are afraid to lose friends to even talk to them about the gospel.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Robert, I think that this thread will be shut down shortly as it's getting too long - I will start a new one, using your name in the first line.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    ok Chris. sounds good.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    "Hi Robert, good to catch up again. I fully realize that we all have many commitments so wasn't expecting any responses, though I had thought about you in the interim & trusted the Lord that you were well. So thanks for the added comments & no, I haven't heard of David Wood - will check him out.

    I could use prayer for stomach problems and back. Found out I was born with a mild form of spina bifida and now understand why I started dealing with back issues as early as my early-30's. I will be 53 soon. Prayers appreciated. I do believe God still heals. He did heal me of a problem in my early walk. David's ministry is called Acts17apologetics. he has almost 500,000 subscribers now. maybe you can team up with him on evangelism. He does debates also.

    I'm sure you too have many great stories to tell in your encounters with those of other faiths. And all these are not to bring us into the limelight, but all praise to the Lord Who superintends our ways.

    My best stories were in my youth. I hit the streets with gospel tracts when I was 16 with two other hippies at that time. People were so much more receptive back then. Hearts are getting hard with many. It's cool when the Holy Spirit shows up with a divine appointment or you get a word of knowledge. I've been doing most of my evangelism online for about 10 years now. Built a 12 x 6 cross in 2007 that we went around with. that was interesting. "Hey, Jesus didn't have a wheel." It opened up doors as people came to you. My zeal isn't where it was when I was younger in the Lord. I want thta back. I think about, "Why bother anymore? People don't care about the things of God or care to repent and come to Christ" and then I think what if Jesus had that attitude int he Garden of Gethsemane? I guess I and maybe you too don't always feel like sharing the gospel but we must press on even on the days we dont' feel like it. Pray for me for more zeal.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Hi Chris, I have been very busy. I guess the best thing to do is respond with each comment to get back to where we were.

    "ME ORIGINALLY: "I believe there is a double fulfillment with many things in this chapter that we in our time will experience, one of those being preaching the gospel to the whole world."

    YOU: This is probably where a lot of error & misunderstanding comes up: how to dissect correctly what has been fulfilled & what is yet to come. In our natural mind, we tend to read things as a developing story, & so what was prophesied to occur prior to & at the arrival/destruction by the Roman Army in AD70, then also speaks about a great tribulation, which no doubt meant great suffering to the Jews at that time (i.e. from Matthew 24:20 to the change in v 21). And the thought of the great tribulation is continued from there to v31, which clearly hasn't happened in its fullest sense.

    me NOW:

    This is why I hold to a double fulfillment. I believe that Bible allows for that at times as God used shadows and types in the Old Test. of future things that would take place. Abraham giving of his first son; God giving of us Son for one example of hundreds.

    YOU: So much speculation arises, different teaching, & sometimes a trail of confused believers as to what is actually going on here. I just have to accept that post Cross, there was & will always be much suffering from the hands of wicked men (spirit of anti-Christ), & we must simply believe that all the prophecies given must be fulfilled according to the declarations by God.

    ME: Amen bro. Jesus promised us suffering, and persecution. Those of us living in 'better' countries have just been pretty much lucky up till about now. I have been persecuted in the USA to some small degree and falsely accused of something I didn't do. I got a little taste of it.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Re: the Fig Tree. I agree with you that in these portions (Matthew 24 & Luke 21) the Fig tree is not Israel but used as part of Jesus' illustration to reveal the signs pointing to His second coming, though I don't see those devastations happening 'all at the same time'. If one had to consider the rate of time between the two, I would think that a fig tree in its season, would bud & fruit far quicker than the fulfilling of all those occurrences prior to His Coming. So I just accept it as an illustration rather than to apply a time rate to it. So "Behold the fig tree, and all the trees": I understand the "all the trees" as Jesus' emphasis as to the abundance of evidence that 'summer is nigh' = His Coming.

    Research what was going on then. Increase of earthquakes and all that were happening then too. What we would call the "birth pangs" or beginning of sorrows. This is why I take it as a double fulfillment prophecy.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    But I also think that us Christians have been warning people like a pre-tribber would warn to get right so you can get out of here and not have to take the mark and the post-tribber would say you need to get right with God and begin getting oil in your lamp for the hard times coming.

    So all these people being warned know not to take the mark of the beast so some will survive the time of tribulation without taking the mark. This could be another group. I'm just trying to figure out if there could be other possibilities. I can't prove it but I kind of take the one int he filed that is taken is the wicked person who took the mark adn the other one is either a jewish person that was exempt from taking the mark or someone who survived that didn't receive Jesus but also didn't take the mark.

    Thoughts?
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    YOU: One could argue, that Noah too was "taken away" from the flood's destructive work on all living, in which case the farmers & mill grinders would experience the same prospect with the righteous one taken & the unrighteous one left. If this understanding is correct, then the unrighteous who are left are those who will continue into the Millennium. And those taken to be with Christ at His Coming are the elect (v 31) (Israel, not Elect because of salvation, but by God's choosing cf v 22) & they along with the raptured Saints (who come with Christ at His Second Coming) will reign with Him through the Millennium.

    ME: The problem with that would be that anyone who takes the mark of the beast which might be tied into the noahide laws (not sure and time will tell), will not repopulate. They are damned for ever once they make that choice. Revelation tells us this 7 times. Those that are alive and remain UNTO the coming (parousia) of the Lord will be raptured (post-trib) and be glorified with a new body to reign with Christ on earth. So it can't be those two types of people.

    Either some people are going to be exempt from having to take the mark and why I lean toward the noahide laws for the one reason I mentioned before that these are meant for gentiles only. Also, Leviticus says to not put any mark on one's body so in an attempt that a small portion of Jews go back under the law of Moses, this would be another reason. 3rd reason of course is the beheading clause in noahide laws' sublaws. This is why I am leaning that way and it makes sense as the government over there has put a huge illuminati pyramid with the eye of Horus on top of their supreme court building.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    Robert, that's an interesting question: who will repopulate the Earth in the Millennium? You're correct that the "taking away" in verse 39 refers to the wicked of Noah's day, but can that phrase be used in the same way for vv 40, 41?

    Three most important rules in Biblical interpretation are context, context, context. Verse 39 tells us WHO these next two verses are talking about. There is no reason to try to read in a pre-trib rapture when it already tells us who the who is.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    PART 2:

    c. All the things Jesus said in Matthew 20 thru 24 1/2 were fulfilled.

    d. almost every single pre-1830 commentary I have read said this 'he' was Jesus or in John Gill's case, the Roman Army but Gill is off because they would have used the word 'they' (plural) instead of 'he' (singular) if it was more than one person. No references I could find up to date that teaches this 'he' is a future antichrist. It doesn't even make sense unless all grammar is thrown out. Check out what an antecedent is in grammar.

    e. to turn abominationS (plural) in verse 27 into abomination (singular) is messing with God's Word. So what did the hierarchy of the religious leaders do after Jesus was crucified? they began animal sacrifice again thus mocking Jesus' death. This is the worst kind of abomination one can do, much worse than killing a pig on the altar as Antiochus Epiphanes did in 160 BC.

    So in summary, there was only 3 1/2 years left after Jesus died in the 490 year timeline. Question is, was it fulfilled in

    1. Stephens' death (there is no way to prove historically or Biblically that Stephen was killed an exact 3 1/2 years after Jesus. But I am open to this idea.

    2. This is my take. The Great Revolt War that lasted 3 1/2 years from the fall of 66 AD to the spring of 70 AD; the Stay of Execution extra 40 years. 40 means trials and temptations in the Bible. even the demonic Jooish Talmud admits to the scarlet wool never turning white again from 40 years before the destruction of Jerusalam in Yoma 39b. This was a supernatural sign that God did after the Day of atonement. It never happened again after Jesus' death. This proves the abominationS in Daniel 9:27 has to be what the killing of animals again, not what ONE man way in the future was going to do. Even building a third temple is an abomination. See what God did to this attempt in 363 AD. I fear so many Christians are heading for major judgment for sending money to have this done.

    3. see next post.
  • Robert Marino - in Reply on Genesis 10
    replying to your comment brother:

    2. Re: Daniel 9:26,27. I think I'm reading correctly from your comment that it is Jesus that is seen in this passage. We see the Messiah cut off (v26) & then "the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city". Are you seeing Jesus here as well? Then who are the "people of Jesus (the prince)" that shall come to destroy? You said that "this has nothing to do with a future anti-Christ". And if v27 refers to Jesus, doesn't this aspect of 'confirming the covenant' resemble anti-Christ's plan to go against Israel & introduce his own abominations to desecrate the Temple?

    1. Daniel 9:26) the people of the prince to come = General Titus of the Roman army. Titus historically became a prince over night when his father Vespasian was called back to Rome by the Roman Senate to become the new king (Caesar) and he was left in charge of the 66 AD to 70 AD siege of Jerusalem. This prince was not Jesus. Why did Daniel interject this prince into the passage? If it had not, all the things Jesus said in Matthew chapters 20, 21, 22 and 23 would not make much sense. I call the time period between Jesus' crucifixion and the destruction of Jerusalem (40 years) and extended time of the 490 year timeline and call it a Stay of Execution where God was giving those who rejected Jesus as the Messiah another chance with a total of 530 years from the beginning of the timeline.

    2. If you read verse 26's AFTER, you find that the 'he' in verse 27 is talking about the Prince with a capital P. and thta Jesus died in the middle of the 70th week.

    a. the first 49 years (7 weeks) were already fulfilled and then the next 434 years (62 weeks) so we are already into the 70th week without Messiah being cut off yet. So this 'he' has to be the Messiah.

    b. Jesus made an end of the animal sacrifices proving further he was the 'he'.
  • Mishael - in Reply on Genesis 10
    If you have a King James Version Bible WITH the center of the page reference columns; which reference to other Bible passages, BETWEEN Genesis verse 1 and 2,

    You will begin to see a more complete explanation of Pre-Adam.

    Satan was turned into a serpent.

    The 1/3 of the created angels were thrown out of Heaven too. They had bodies at that time, which is how they "inter married" with the descendants of Adam (Not Seth).

    All that happened after verse 1-2. It's a very intricate study. The column references in each location you go to, refer to others.

    I'm going to flip on ahead and say after the flood, the evil angels died of drowning and lost their bodies. They now prowl the earth as demons; millions or billions, I don't know. They are called INHABITANTS in the scriptures.

    I think Jesus is coming back real soon, so I don't think there's time to tear through Genesis many more times. I keep telling myself what does that have to do with being saved and born again? It's all in scripture.

    Note: the earth is not thousands of years old; science has discovered differently. It's millions or even older.

    Stay focused on New Jerusalem. That's our future. Signs of the Times, as Jesus said: Matthew 24.

    I will say for the 32nd time, there are people in the prayer request room who need prayer. We don't get Crowns for weariness of much study.


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