Bible Discussion Thread

  • Robert on Judges 13 - 4 years ago
    I am often puzzled by the need of the last few generations to make all angels Jesus.

    What would be the purpose of 10 thousand angels if all they did was sing songs?

    What would be the meaning of "King of Kings" or sitting at the right of God?

    Like the man of authority said, I speak and they do. Jesus sits on the right hand of God and commands. If He had to keep coming to Earth, why?

    And that brings up the second objection of translations of a particular word (ie: I am or Jehovah). The Bible is to be taken in faith. Not absolutes. The answers to all questions are not included. However, do you choose to follow God (in faith); or believe in other forms of worship is (Satan, delusions, false prophets, traditions, etc.)

    I am not trying to be offensive or claim I know better than anyone else. I seek God's will and to become a Disciple of Christ through the Holy Spirit. I am just trying to test all things and prove them.
  • Chris - In Reply on Judges 13 - 4 years ago
    Page 2.

    King of kings & Lord of lords are of course terms given generally to Jesus to signify that there is none greater than any earthly king, whether real or imagined. And a clear claim to His Deity is also seen in these words.

    I couldn't get your intention with "translations of I Am or Jehovah". Is there a dispute with this?
  • Robert - In Reply on Judges 13 - 4 years ago
    Thanks for your input Chris.

    I was definitely not disputing the validity of God or Jesus. What I was attempting to point out is the attempt of people to claim this is a manifestation of God or Jesus when the Bible does not say one way or another.

    As for the intention of translations, I was attempting to point out that people seem to lose sight of the forest looking at the trees. It doesn't matter what a single verse says (tree); much less a word (leaf or branch). What matters is the message or context.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Each path to Discipleship is between the Holy Spirit and the person. In the end we all will be judged on our personal beliefs and choices (free will).

    As the Israelites, we all need to question, Are we worshipping God His way, or our way? In my opinion, the Bible should translate and interpret itself.

    Also prayer, conversation, study, devotionals, history, reflection and always keeping the scriptures in your mind assist you on your journey with the creator.

  • Chris - In Reply on Judges 13 - 4 years ago
    Robert, okay I see your approach in writing this & I fully agree with what you've said. And to highlight the importance of the message, is indeed very important, though I find that one still needs to deal with the 'trees & leaves' for better understanding of that message. And this is probably where our divergent opinions become more pronounced as we grapple with those specific words; and I'm not referring to Bible translations, which you mentioned, here.

    For example, I think of the endless debate on the Lord's Second Coming: indeed, it is a matter of great interest & expectation for most of us, but we all have our opinions on, for example, the 'last trump' & are convinced that what we believe is what is going to happen. I feel it is the right thing to want exposition of that phrase, but we generally won't admit that there is a possibility that we're wrong & just have to leave the matter until more Light comes our way. Yesterday, I was listening to a study on this aspect, where the teacher spoke of the Feast of Trumpets relating to the 'last trump'. He had taken pains to go through each of the Jewish Feasts, seeing each one fulfilled in Christ & the Church. So, I thought that was interesting, but should I accept that view in the light of the other interpretations offered? There must be a time when we need to step back & remain open without having guilt for not following a particular view. Blessings to you too as we together hunger more of God's Word.
  • Chris - In Reply on Judges 13 - 4 years ago
    Page 1.

    Robert, I agree, that these occurrences in the Bible can be a little perplexing, as generally we understand that God's Throne is in Heaven, Jesus (post resurrection) is at the Father's right Hand ( Heb 10:12) & the Holy Spirit has come to Earth in Jesus' stead ( Jn 14:26, 16:7-11).

    Yet, you state: "I am often puzzled by the need of the last few generations to make all angels Jesus." I think you are referring to a 'Theophany', as in Gen 18:1-3, 32:24ff, or a 'Christophany', as in Judg 6:11-24, 2 Ki 19:35. There are of course, many other references to such manifestations. As well, one has to also understand the nature & work of Angels. My own sense is that if a person cannot in all good conscience discern the evidence for God or the Word, (Jesus, pre-incarnate) manifesting Themselves to man, or whether they were in fact Angels representing the God-Head, then no wrong judgement has been committed. The evidence one way or the other is not entirely clear & one cannot raise qualified objections to someone's different opinion. The fact that God did speak to men in such a manner is clear, but how & why He chose to bring His Word or His Presence to the view of man, remains unclear.

    "What would be the purpose of 10 thousand angels if all they did was sing songs?" I don't believe that the entire host in Heaven are only there to 'sing songs'. Of course, there appears to be constant worship to God & singing of His Praises, but there are also a multitude of tasks that angels perform: Heb 1:13,14, "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" So, they are also sent out to minister in a myriad of ways. You can find them in the Bible, ministering to physical needs, for protection, for encouragement, in regards to children, giving of the Law, directing lives, at the Second Coming of Christ, etc. So, they are busy about the Lord's business & not idling away their time.

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