Bible Discussion Thread

  • Yuanpei Su on Revelation 7:9
    I hope that you might pray that fellow Christians may rediscover the true Lunar solar sabbath day. I feel greatful for finding out about it myself and I hope that more do as well.
  • K8mb - in Reply on Revelation 7:9
    2nd part reply

    Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law ( Gal. 3:13 NASB).

    The apostle Paul said the Law was added only until Christ comes:

    Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressionsuntil the seed should come to whom the promise had been made ( Gal. 3:19 NASB).

    Paul goes on to say the Law was our "tutor to lead us to Christ"; now that we are justified in Christ, we are no longer under the Law:

    But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor ( Gal. 3:23-25 NASB).

    While the moral principles expressed in the Ten Commandments are reaffirmed in the New Testament, the command to observe the Sabbath is the only commandment not repeated. There is no New Testament command for believers to set aside the Sabbath as a day of worship. Exodus 31:13 says the Sabbath was a "sign between God and Israel," not God and the church.

    The first Christians were, of course, Jews, and when Gentiles began to enter the church, some Jewish Christians (Judaizers) tried to force new Gentile believers to follow the Law and observe the Sabbath (among other things). It became such a problem that Paul warned that no believer was to judge another believer with regard to the Sabbath:

    Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ ( Col. 2:16-17 NASB).

    A shadow is only an image cast by an object which represents its form. Paul said the Sabbath was a "mere shadow" that pointed to Christ. Once a person finds Christ, he or she no longer needs to follow the shadow.

    I hope this helps, God bless you.
  • Chris - in Reply on Revelation 7:9
    Great comment Kim & very true. While reading the part about the Sabbath, I was reminded of Rev 1:10, when John on the day that he first heard from Jesus, the Alpha & Omega, was the Lord's Day. Interesting, that he didn't call it the Sabbath but referred to it as the accepted term for a separate day to that observed by the Jews. So yet another piece of evidence that the Sabbath was no longer recognized & the Lord's Day was set aside as Sunday & the day for worship.
  • Kimberly Burrow - in Reply on Revelation 7:9
    That information didn't come from me, I had a question about that at sent it in to Charles Stanley and that was his reply. Just didn't want to take credit for something that I didn't write. God bless you.
  • Kim burrow - in Reply on Revelation 7:9
    Christians have never worshipped on the seventh day. Christians have worshipped on the first day of the week since the church was born on the first day of the week at Pentecost and Peter preached the first sermon on a Sunday. After that first Sunday, those same Christians continued to meet and worship regularly on the first day of the week ( Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2). Sunday worship can be historically traced in unbroken succession all the way back to the first century to Jesus' disciples in Jerusalem meeting on the first day of the week. For two thousand years, Christians have faithfully followed the New Testament pattern given by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and practiced by the apostles, the first Christians, and the early church.

    Some believe that Constantine and the Roman Catholic Church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday, but the church had been worshipping on the first day of the week hundreds of years before Constantine was born and before the Church of Rome ever existed. Constantine only declared officially in the fourth century what the church had been doing since the first century. There was no change in the day of worship for Christians because Christians had never worshipped on the seventh day. Christians had worshipped on the first day of the week since Pentecost in Acts chapter 2.

    Believers are not under the Law. The requirements of the Law were met in Christ ( Matt. 5:17). Believers are released from the Law, believers are dead to the Law, and believers are redeemed from the Law ( Rom. 6:14; 7:6, 9; Gal. 3:13):

    You are not under law but under grace ( Rom. 6:14 NASB).

    But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound ( Rom. 7:6 NASB).

    For apart from the Law sin is dead. I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me ( Rom. 7:8b-10 NASB).

    1st reply
  • D.J. - in Reply on Revelation 7:9
    Kim Burrow

    Page 3

    Paul also wrote that "the Law is not of faith: But the man that doeth them shall live in them" ( Galatians 10:12); quoted from Leviticus 18:5. And Paul immediately reminds us that "Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree" ( Galatians 10:13) quoted from Deuteronomy 21:23. Those that hang on trees have transgressed the Law. Paul uses two passages from the Law to show us that we cannot live without the Law?

    James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    The words of Jesus confirm the 10 Commandments found in the books of the LAW, Exodus 20:1-17, Luke 10:27.

    The only people that do not NEED the Law are those that are not sinning. No matter how righteous we may think we are, we all sin every day and are made new (every day) through repentance and forgiveness.

    Just because we have been brought to Christ does not mean that we cannot fall away again.
  • D.J. - in Reply on Revelation 7:9
    Kim Burrow

    Page 2

    Concerning the abolishment of the Law of God:

    The book of Hebrews shows us that the 7th day, the Temple, the Tabernacle, the Ark of the Covenant, etc., are a copy or replication of what God has already established in Heaven.

    Hebrews 8:5 "They serve in a place that is a COPY and SHADOW of the heavenly meeting tent. This is indicated when Moses was warned by God when he was about to set up the meeting tent: See that you FOLLOW THE PATTERN that I showed you on the mountain in every detail;" from Exodus 25:40.

    The heavenly pattern is what we follow, and God has not left us any information concerning that being changed in any way.

    The fulfillment, partial or total that Christ has done in the Law does not make that Law abolished. For instance, the Temple is gone. We have become His Temple. The veil was rent from top to bottom ( Matthew 27:51) to show that we no longer need a priest to reconcile our sins for us. We all have forgiveness based upon repentance.

    Fulfillment, in full, or in part, of the Law does not abolish it. What do you do with all other Scripture that does not agree with your assessment?

    When Christ rose and spoke in the Synagogue on the Sabbath, He specifically left out the words in Luke 4:18-19 concerning the "Day of vengeance of our God" ( Isaiah 61:1-2) because that day has not come upon us all yet.

    Christ came to fulfill the Law, not abolish it. Has the Law been completely fulfilled? No. We are still under the Law, which

    Paul states "is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" ( Galatians 5:14)

    The "curse" of the Law is a persons' inability to keep it. That "curse" is what Christ has taken on for us. Not the Law. The Law is just and perfect. It is humans that cannot remain righteous; not even a single day of our lives!
  • D.J. - in Reply on Revelation 7:9
    Kim Burrow, Comments concerning the 7th day, Law, and Grace.

    Concerning the Sabbath:

    The Hebrew definition of the word "week," or "weeks," simply means "sevened."

    The Greek definition is clear, as the word "week" is defined as "Sabbath," i.e. the 7th day (of a seven day period); the day of rest.

    The 7th day was established for ALL of mankind back on the 7th Day of Creation ( Genesis 2:2, 3) and was never abolished.

    ( Mark 2:27-28) "And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath."

    If we believe in the Father and His only begotten Son, then we have Christ in us every day, not just one day per week.

    This new understanding is an enhancement of the 7th day, not the abolishment of it. It was made to last forever. This is a day that God BLESSES and SANCTIFIED! Christ always honored the Sabbath. The Apostles kept the Sabbath; look at Acts 13:14, 27, 42, 44, Acts 16:13, etc.

    Pentecost is a holy SABBATH day; i.e. a day of rest.

    The "first day of the week" spoken of in Acts 20:7, concerns the first Sabbath in reckoning the seven Sabbaths until Pentecost. (i.e. the first day of the Sabbath. Week = Sabbath.

    In Acts 17:2 and Acts 18:4, Paul is continually feeding the people Scripture on the SABBATH. Christ never abolished the Sabbath; neither did Paul. God never said anything concerning that fact, and if He wanted that day changed He would have made it abundantly clear.

    To pluck a few verses out of Scripture and declare a law of God to be null and void (especially with so much Scripture speaking contrary to what you are proposing) is playing fast and loose with His words.

    *Look at the book of Enoch; specifically chapter 72 and 82 (column 27) concerning the ancient Enoch Solar priestly Calendar. A 364 day calendar (52 x 7)
  • Kim b - in Reply on Revelation 7:9
    I got that straight from Charles Stanley. He has been a preacher for 2 decades. I don't think he's playing fast and loose. I think he knows what he is talking about.

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