Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Timothy Pratt on Hebrews 13:7
    The word says in various forms we are to choose our leaders that are GOD FEARING and we are to be subservient to those leaders. Does the Bible say what the individual believer's responsibility is with respect to dishonest NON-GOD-FEARING leaders.
  • Chris - in Reply on Hebrews 13:7
    Timothy, Bob has given excellent examples showing our first obedience is to the Lord in all things & as part of that obedience we are obey our governments, only if they don't demand that we deny Him in any way. Many through the ages withstood such govts. (think of the various Empires we've seen in history & to which (a type) all on Earth will one day be subject to), & those who disobeyed because of their faith & love for God, were executed. Fortunately, our govts. have not resorted to this, treating everyone 'fairly', but it won't be like this when the Anti-Christ reigns.

    However, your point I see is, do we even have God-fearing leaders, & if we do, are they challenging the wicked legislations in place (which include homosexuality, abortion, wilful murder, & anything contrary to God's Word)? As you know, some are doing something in this regard, but if they are to be leaders with a voice, they know they cannot overstep the bounds set by their political party, or out they go. So really, the status quo is that good leaders have not really made too much of a difference. Who then do we obey? This really has to be a personal decision, according to the dictates of one's conscience.

    For me, I refuse to vote, as to me it means hypocrisy (as it is, I have to be on guard over some weak areas in my life - I don't need to add another to it). I still obey the laws of the land, but my vote can't go to any person or party that dishonours God. We will never get a perfect govt, I know, but I believe as Christians we should expect God-honouring laws from people that fear God (& not man), that God may indeed bless our lands. The U.S & most other countries suffer greatly because of wickedness in 'high places'. Can we expect the blessings from God? What do we get instead from govts.? Laws that generally meet people's expectations, regardless of their correctness, so that the majority vote may be garnered when needed.
  • Bob Hilt - in Reply on Hebrews 13:7
    Greetings Timothy If the leaders demand we disobey a command of the Lord we are to disobey them. Example the Hebrew midwives at the time of Moses commanded the male children be killed and they disobeyed him as recorded in

    Exodus Chapter 1:15 And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah:

    16 And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

    17 But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive.

    18 And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men children alive?

    19 And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women [are] not as the Egyptian women; for they [are] lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.

    20 Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

    21 And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.

    22 And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying, Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive.

    Yet in Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

    Rome was evil and Yet Jesus said to pay their taxes as an example to us:

    Matthew 22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute (Taxes) unto Caesar, or not?

    19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

    20 ... Whose image is this?..

    Matthew 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.


 

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