Bible Discussion Thread

    Please why were these books (judit, tobit, wisdom of solomon etc.) removed from the bible? (am really blessed in studying them)

    muslims do go against us by saying our bible is no more complete (pls i need urgent clear answer)
  • Chris - in Reply on Tobit 1:4
    Page 3.

    Jesus could only be the Perfect Offering to pay for our sin & to turn away God's Anger against us. So, this Jesus Who is in Heaven now says, that He will come again one day to restore all things back to perfection, but for now He gives us the opportunity to come to Him in faith in what He has done for us. So, after creating all things new for those who love Jesus & God, is there anything that can be added to Scripture after this? Nothing can be added at all.

    I hope this helps you a little in your understanding & discussion with Muslim friends.
  • Chris - in Reply on Tobit 1:4
    Page 2.

    You may not be able to do Scriptural comparisons, since only the very learned who know both the Bible & Quran well are able to do, so all you can do is:

    a. tell them that we (Christians) agree that the Bible as given to us by God, is complete from beginning (with Creation) to the end (destruction of the Earth & the bringing in of the new heavens & Earth freed at last from sin's corruption). And God warns us in Revelation 22:18,19: "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." So what Jesus (by the Angel) has said, is that we are forbidden to add anything more to what God has revealed to us or else God will judge us.

    b. the Muslim will then say to you that this is false & why has Allah then given us the Quran? You cannot enter into debate about this as you & I can't give clear answers about Quranic writings, but we can tell them the reason why ONLY the biblical message is important: that is, we are all sinners (Muslims will agree to that, though their understanding about sin is slightly different to ours), & as sinners God has to judge us (because He is Holy & Just), we're found guilty as a result & sent to Hell forever. We earlier did tried to obey God & do our best, but all our good efforts were not acceptable to Him & we remained guilty. But since God loves us so much (John 3:16), He had to do something permanent: He gave of Himself, through Jesus, the "Word of God" & (a Soul) (Quran calls Him Kalimat'ullah, (Surah 4:171).

    (onto Page 3.)
  • Chris - in Reply on Tobit 1:4
    Page 1.

    Emmanuel, the books you mentioned form part of what we call 'The Apocrypha' & were not included in the Canon of Scripture. Canonizing of Scripture took place over the ages since post-Apostolic days, which essentially means that the Church fathers & others involved in Scriptural examination viewed that some published writings did not conform to the accepted doctrines or teachings in the other accepted books: because of their authorship, authenticity, or dubious references, raised 'red flags' as to their worth to be included in Scripture. I'm not saying that everything in the Apocrypha is wrong, but there are many differences there to cause concern, & so these books were left out (i.e. not canonized).

    That "Muslims say that our Bible is incomplete". I've worked with Muslims & studied Islam in my earlier ministry so am aware of this claim, amongst many others. This claim of theirs has to do with the Bible being current & valid only to a certain point in time. That is, only till the coming of Jesus (the Prophet) & with His Life & Ministry. They don't accept the letters written by the apostles of Christ & when they understand the Gospels, they think of the Gospel of Barnabas only, which is not accepted at all by Christians. So, if (to them), the Bible has ended with Jesus, then why shouldn't everyone then accept God's next prophet, Mohammed & his revelations from Allah. This is why they claim that our Bible is incomplete: because al-Quran is given by Allah to bring His latest message to all. So what do they do when someone like Baha'ullah comes on the scene after Mohammed? They of course, reject him, because it won't fit into their belief that Mohammed is God's last prophet. You & I can't use any of this as an argument with Muslims, as they will just reject your words. In fact, it is not advisable to even find fault with their Book, as this will cause them anger & to not listen to you at all.

    (onto Page 2)
  • Mishael - in Reply on Tobit 1:4
    You have to choose one book or the other eventually. One follows Muhammad, the other follows Jesus, the son of God.

    Both came through the bloodline of Abraham, until Mary, of the bloodline of King David. That's why Jesus said he was the Son of Man.

    Ishmaels bloodline was through Abraham and Haggar. God blessed Ishmael with good things: recorded in the Bible.

    However, God had made a Covenant with Abraham that would be passed down through the son, Issac. Jesus's mother would come through that bloodline.

    Read in Genesis 17: 19-21. Ishmael's blessing verse 20.

    There's just differences between the Bible and the Quran. I'd go with what speaks to my heart and soothes my soul; but that's just me.

    I grew up in a church that preached so much hell fire damnation that I was more fascinated by the various colors the pastors face showed. Pink meant it was time to go home.

    I've had Muslim neighbors. They're very family oriented. Older relatives are treated with respect. Very approachable and kind.

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