To Carlos, our discussion page has now been locked, as you've probably noticed. So, I'll to post this afresh & hope you see it.
To your comment with the lead statement, "discussion leads to growth, edification, faith and maturity." I may have grown in my faith in a similar way to you. I had a lot of teaching when attending Church as an unsaved young person. After salvation in my mid-20s, I knew I had to undo everything, get into the Word properly & methodically, & find out what God is really saying. I realize that many have done much more study than me, but it remained in my heart that I needed to sit & listen to the Holy Spirit first & then hear man speak.
I too have never fitted into any denomination & it becomes interesting when having to explain why that is so. And I doubt, that any believer who is studying God's Word intently, would ever really agree on everything a denomination stands on & preaches. I think that type of variety is very appropriate, as we individually search the Scriptures & formulate our understanding based on the Light received. I have my own understanding of the Ordinances given to us, particularly in the performance of them; I reject the Health/Wealth teaching; the requirement for the proper biblical use of the Spiritual Gifts, & even to what we've been discussing at length: the proper understanding of the Creation account. As you can see, I've been prepared to sit with you on this one, as it too has exercised my understanding of the Scriptures in a way I didn't think was possible. However, my conviction is: 'if something is not clearly revealed in the Word, then just accept what is seen & understood'. By clear revelation, I mean, after a thorough examination of all Scripture over the matter. Yes, you could be right in your assumptions about Creation, but I just don't accept as fact something that is unclear in the Word & then have to entertain possibilities or probabilities for everything that follows after it.
I'm neither "perplexed nor defensive": just explaining how I understand the Scriptures given showing the difference between the Mosaic Law & any other law, whether man-mad/given, or in one's conscience. And to "Angels crossing species": I refer to Gen 18:2; 19:1; Heb 13:2. So when I say that they crossed species, it was to indicate that they took on human form for accomplish God's Purposes.
Carlos, to your discussion beginning with, "if when you reference Rom 5:13-14".
Since I no longer have that particular thread before me (because of the locked discussion), I will respond just on your comments. With the Romans reference, I believe I said that that all (from Adam onwards) have suffered death (both physical & spiritual) as a result of sin, "even to those who had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression". What was the similarity to Adam's transgression? Those, like Adam, that didn't have the Law given to them, or was in their knowledge, that would have given judgement to their sin. Who are these people? Adam, primitive tribes, & to some extent, Gentiles, who do perform some of the laws because of governments who embrace those principals. Then I quoted, Rom 2:14,15, to show that to those who didn't have God's Laws/Standards, "did by nature the things contained in God's Law", & upon that basis they would be judged. So, I think I'm saying what you are, except in a different way.
When I refer to, & understand, the Law in this instance, I refer to it as those Laws of God as declared & given through Moses. If God told Adam not to eat the fruit, then it is a commandment, as a parent so commands his child. Adam was not bound under the Law (& it wasn't imputed to him), as it wasn't given to him to obey. Yet, he suffered, because sin was imputed because of disobedience, regardless whether the Law was given or not. Then why the need for the Mosaic Law? It was God's declared Standard for His people, distinguishing them (as also with circumcision), from any other people in the world. The others were a law unto themselves, doing by nature the things that are contained in the Law, & were/are so judged by the performance of those un-given Laws.
To your comment with the lead statement, "discussion leads to growth, edification, faith and maturity." I may have grown in my faith in a similar way to you. I had a lot of teaching when attending Church as an unsaved young person. After salvation in my mid-20s, I knew I had to undo everything, get into the Word properly & methodically, & find out what God is really saying. I realize that many have done much more study than me, but it remained in my heart that I needed to sit & listen to the Holy Spirit first & then hear man speak.
I too have never fitted into any denomination & it becomes interesting when having to explain why that is so. And I doubt, that any believer who is studying God's Word intently, would ever really agree on everything a denomination stands on & preaches. I think that type of variety is very appropriate, as we individually search the Scriptures & formulate our understanding based on the Light received. I have my own understanding of the Ordinances given to us, particularly in the performance of them; I reject the Health/Wealth teaching; the requirement for the proper biblical use of the Spiritual Gifts, & even to what we've been discussing at length: the proper understanding of the Creation account. As you can see, I've been prepared to sit with you on this one, as it too has exercised my understanding of the Scriptures in a way I didn't think was possible. However, my conviction is: 'if something is not clearly revealed in the Word, then just accept what is seen & understood'. By clear revelation, I mean, after a thorough examination of all Scripture over the matter. Yes, you could be right in your assumptions about Creation, but I just don't accept as fact something that is unclear in the Word & then have to entertain possibilities or probabilities for everything that follows after it.
I'm neither "perplexed nor defensive": just explaining how I understand the Scriptures given showing the difference between the Mosaic Law & any other law, whether man-mad/given, or in one's conscience. And to "Angels crossing species": I refer to Gen 18:2; 19:1; Heb 13:2. So when I say that they crossed species, it was to indicate that they took on human form for accomplish God's Purposes.
Carlos, to your discussion beginning with, "if when you reference Rom 5:13-14".
Since I no longer have that particular thread before me (because of the locked discussion), I will respond just on your comments. With the Romans reference, I believe I said that that all (from Adam onwards) have suffered death (both physical & spiritual) as a result of sin, "even to those who had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression". What was the similarity to Adam's transgression? Those, like Adam, that didn't have the Law given to them, or was in their knowledge, that would have given judgement to their sin. Who are these people? Adam, primitive tribes, & to some extent, Gentiles, who do perform some of the laws because of governments who embrace those principals. Then I quoted, Rom 2:14,15, to show that to those who didn't have God's Laws/Standards, "did by nature the things contained in God's Law", & upon that basis they would be judged. So, I think I'm saying what you are, except in a different way.
When I refer to, & understand, the Law in this instance, I refer to it as those Laws of God as declared & given through Moses. If God told Adam not to eat the fruit, then it is a commandment, as a parent so commands his child. Adam was not bound under the Law (& it wasn't imputed to him), as it wasn't given to him to obey. Yet, he suffered, because sin was imputed because of disobedience, regardless whether the Law was given or not. Then why the need for the Mosaic Law? It was God's declared Standard for His people, distinguishing them (as also with circumcision), from any other people in the world. The others were a law unto themselves, doing by nature the things that are contained in the Law, & were/are so judged by the performance of those un-given Laws.
(onto Page 2)
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