Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Carlos Ramirez Trevio on Matthew 24:29
    A study of the metaphorical reference to stars in the Bible, shows that stars are iften a reference to people, not just physical heavenly bodies, such as stars, meteors, planets.

    See examples in:

    Revelation 1:20

    Jude 1:13

    Nahum 3:16

    Judges 5:20

    Revelation 9:1
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 24:29
    Hi Carlos,

    Are these stars maybe referencing angels and not people? In the book of Revelation, the stars are making reference to angels, spirit beings. It is interesting that Jesus had a star, and it was a special star. In Matthew Chapter 2, it was called "His star."

    I am wondering, and I have no scriptural evidence of this, but I am just wondering if that was the same star (Angel) that ministered to Jesus while He was out in the wilderness for 40 days? Honestly, I do not know the answer to that. It's just a thought!
  • Carlos Ramirez Trevino - in Reply on Matthew 24:29
    Continuation...

    In the 7th Seal, the Trumpets are introduced. This Seal signifies the last days of the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24. The Trumpets sound at the very last hour of the Tribulation. Then the Bowls of the Wrath of God are found in the last Trumpet. It is that last hour that is referred to as The Day of The Lord or Day of His Wrath. See 14:7.

    In any case, Genesis 37:9 is a reference to people, more specifically, Joseph's brothers. Now, although the reference in Judges 5:20 appears to be to Angels, it is more specifically a reference to earthly Kings at war.

    In Revelation 22:16, Jesus refers to Himself as The Bright and Morning Star.

    Joel 2:10 seems to be speaking of more than just stars. It is speaks of the powerful and influential, whose luster, whose brightness, whose power, appeal and influence are diminished by the army of God. But who is that army? It is an army of people.

    Again, who is the star in Revelation 9:1?

    I hope this answers your question. But keep in mind that in everyday speak and historically, we sometimes refer to prominent people as stars, too.

    Thanks for asking. It would be good to hear your opinion on this also.

    Carlos Ramirez Trevio
  • Carlos Ramirez Trevino - in Reply on Matthew 24:29
    Hi, Jesse. I am by no means an authority on these things, but a cursory review of the use of stars in the Bible show their use can be literal or symbolic. In Isaiah 13:10, the meaning appears to be literal. Yet in Revelation it is figurative.

    In Genesis, for example, God created the stars. These are the astronomical bodies we observe at night. However, sometimes things said in the Bible have a double meaning. A star can represent an actual star, while at the same time, there is an underlying allusion to Angels, people in positions of leadership or authority.

    In Revelation 12:4, we see a reference to Angels, while in 12:1 the stars represent something else. Some commentators agree that 12:1 is a symbolic reference to the 12 Apostles. Here we have a reference to Christ and the devil. Genesis tells us, in keeping with this passage, that Satan and his angels were cast to earth. Daniel 8 is also supportive of this interpretation.

    In Revelation 8:10-12 we see how stars may take on other meanings. Is the star an angel, a meteor, an earthly leader or what some might call an environmental catastrophe, the result of pollution and adverse weather conditions?

    Keep in mind, while reading Revelation, that what is written is not outlined in chronological sequence. There is a back and forth in time, that may make understanding particularly difficult. So, what Revelation 8 or 12 or other Chapters reveal, are not necessarily sequential events. The same is true for the rest of the book.

    But if you notice, in the 6th Seal, in Chapter 6:13, the stars are cast down. And everyone is afraid and all hide. The symbolism of the stars here, while many mistake them for literal stars, is about governments, powers, authorities and war.

    In the 7th Seal, the Trumpets are introduced. This Seal signifies the last days of the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24. The Trumpets sound at the very last hour of the Tribulation. Then the Bowls of the Wrath of God are found in the last Trumpet.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Matthew 24:29
    Carlos,

    Thanks for your time and response. I agree that the word star or stars can be used as literal stars or used symbolically. I've never spent much time researching every reference to the word star or stars so I have nothing much to share in this area. I think you've answered my question and I do appreciate your time.
  • Tom Harrison - in Reply on Matthew 24:29
    Does the OT commandment from God to not eat certain animals still apply today?
  • Nathaniel - in Reply on Matthew 24:29
    yes their angels
  • Carlos Ramirez Trevino - in Reply on Matthew 24:29
    THANK YOU. But keep in mind that I am not an expert on Stars and their use in the Bible. However, the same applies to Trees, Grass, Water and many other things.
  • Richard Groom - in Reply on Matthew 24:29
    Proof of the post tribulation rapture in this verse, I find it absolutely amazing that people will read this verse and still argue about what it clearly says, AFTER the tribulation of those days, how do you miss that's?
  • CARLOS RAMIREZ TREVINO - in Reply on Matthew 24:29
    I agree, Richard Groom. Everything said by Paul, Peter, John is in complete harmony with what Jesus said in Matthew 24:9. The argument is that 24 is for the Jews. But that is a stretch. The chapter begins by telling us the Disciples of

    "Jesus got together and asked Him about His Return and the End of the Age. The fact that they were Jews is inconsequential.

    As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said,

    "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

    His response follows.

    "Immediately after the Tribulation of those days

    "'the sun will be darkened,

    the moon will not give its light;

    the stars will fall from the sky,

    the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

    "Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth

    will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven,

    with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call,

    and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

    Even a cursory comparison of all the references in the New and Old Testament concerning the Last Days and the Return of Jesus, shows no deviation from the Timeline Jesus presents in 24:9. The idea that there is a pre-coming before the Coming, ignores the parallels and the words of Jesus. There isn't a single place in all of Scripture where a specific time is revealed for the Second Coming, that isn't in keeping with 24:9. And if there were a secret pre-coming, why didn't Jesus reveal it to His disciples, who came to Him privately?

    Revelation tells us clearly that many will be persecuted and killed during the Tribulation, FOR THEIR TESTIMONY OF CHRIST. Revelation 7:14 "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation.

    The Day of Wrath is the final hour, not the full 7 years.



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