The Church doesn't even do this. They will tell the homosexuals they can't live in sin and must repent, but their pews are full of divorced and remarried people, these "Christians" are committing adultery with their new spouse, which God doesn't recognized as a covenant marriage. So, the elephant in the room, its ok to be divorced and remarried, but not homosexual. The plank in the eye in the church. Anyone who is living a sexual sin, whether fornicator, homosexual, and an adulterer, drunkard etc...will not inherit the kingdom of God. I Cor 6:9-10. We must preach the truth, marriage is for life, the divorced and remarried are committing adultery until they repent, leave their sin, leave their "spouse" because they still have a living spouse. Repent church.
Hi Silva, which church does this- the one you attend? Or do you believe all people in all churches act that way?
In decades of attending a variety of churches I never encountered a 'church' claiming that it's ok to get divorced without reason or cheat on your spouse. The Bible allows circumstances to end the marriage in cases of abuse or violation of the covenant like cheating. So, I don't believe the premise that every 'church' thinks one way toward hetero sin and another toward homo sin. All sin is bad and we are to avoid sin. Link
When I read Silvia's post and see her opening statement, I don't see where she is referring to all churches, unless you think the phrase "The church" is referring to denominational church organizations. When I see the phrase the church, I think of the body of Christ in general. I kind of agree with what she is saying. These things are in the body of Christ today. The sad part is that we in the body of Christ let it happen.
These things are in our churches, and many pastors are afraid to do anything about it because they can be sued for removing someone from their church because our churches have been made public. The early church was private. They met in homes. And they wouldn't even open the door and let you in if you didn't have the proper testimony. That's the way I wish the church was today. So if there is evil in the "church," and someone is removed, which they should be removed according to the bible, that person can turn around and sue that church. And in today's society, they would win that lawsuit.
It's nice to see you here reading and sharing your thoughts with other believers. On that note, I spent most of my morning a few days ago responding to the several questions you had specifically for me, and in turn, I suggested that you might be fair in answering those I sent to you. Please, if you have the time, can you answer those questions I sent to you. If you didn't get them, I can re-send.
Jesse, that's an interesting observation you have made: that it is possible that Church leaders don't expel members for gross sin or even bringing in wrong doctrine because of the legal ramifications to them. However, this wasn't the case in the early Church & crazy laws we now have. Even though there are more verses to the Church leaders to gently deal with the matter & to help the sinning person to get victory again, yet 1 Cor 5:9-13 is quite explicit to Church discipline when the problem is serious.
I feel that in the Church today & given our governmental laws, one must only preach against evil, & specifically of sins which insidiously creeps into the Church, so that the ground rules are set & the guilty amongst them may sense conviction or may even leave of his own accord. But when the Church overlooks it completely or preaches an 'easy salvation' which gives the hapless soul no certainty of salvation or of eternity, that Church will be condemned the more.
I'm glad you responded. I did not intend to make it seem like I was referring to the early church being like today's church. I hope others will not get that impression. I was a little sporadic in my thoughts, going from the church today, to the early church, and then back again, so I see how it can be taken the wrong way.
The church back in the first 300 years seemed to have their act together until Constantine came into the equation. Most of today's problems stem from the church becoming too large, and it was never intended to be that way, and I'll explain my reasoning in a second.
But I think most of our problems come from opening the door to everybody because we've become more concerned with numbers than teaching the truth of the gospel. It seems as though success is based on how much money the church makes, and how many people we can pack into the church. (Mega-Ministries)
The reason why I say that the church was never intended to be too large comes from studying the parable of the mustard seed. The mustard seed was not supposed to grow into such a large tree. I also have to keep in mind that in Mark's gospel, when Jesus was explaining the parable of the sower to the disciples, the first thing He said was, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
That's key to me. If I understand the parable of the sower, I will understand all parables. I can't understand the others without understanding the parable of the sower. So when I study the mustard seed, I conclude that the birds represent evil, as in the parable of the sower. So we have birds lodging in the branches of this mustard seed plant. I see the mustard seed plant as representing the church.
The seed is planted in the ground, and it grows to be a monstrous tree, which is not normal for this herb. The mustard seed does not grow into a tree. But it grows so large that the birds come and lodge in the branches. And these birds are evil, and they come and mix with the good.
Jesse, no misunderstanding at all. My remark, "However, this wasn't the case in the early Church..." was simply an affirmation to what you stated. Your points were very clear & appreciated. Thank you.
Your understanding of the Mustard Seed parable was interesting though. I had never looked at it in that light, rather by the usual meaning: that the Word of God/Gospel being scattered/planted, & it would continue to spread out (grow) to the point of being a tree (i.e. a small tree/bush: wherein people that will become part of it, the Church) & the birds will lodge in its shadow (others will benefit by the Church, whether to hear God's message or receive comfort).
But I can see your understanding in view of the infiltration of evil into the Church. Indeed, the Church has become quite deformed today & increasingly lacking in its original design & beauty. Even though some adaptation to today's world needs to be made, I do also question to how far we have removed ourselves from her original design & purpose. But how do we get back to it? Start (another) Church? God forbid! Maybe, just to have a quiet influence in her through careful & methodical Biblical teaching & prayer.
Amen! I think we could all benefit by taking an honest look back and asking ourselves "How did they conduct themselves?" and where did we go wrong? It sure seems like we've gotten ourselves in such a huge mess today!
I was humored about the whole starting another church thing For a second, I thought "Hey, great idea," but then reality soon set in, and the thought over arguing over the color of the carpet, paint on the outside of the building, cushions on the pews, or no cushions, etc. etc. etc. Good grief!
As always, thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words. God Bless!
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In decades of attending a variety of churches I never encountered a 'church' claiming that it's ok to get divorced without reason or cheat on your spouse. The Bible allows circumstances to end the marriage in cases of abuse or violation of the covenant like cheating. So, I don't believe the premise that every 'church' thinks one way toward hetero sin and another toward homo sin. All sin is bad and we are to avoid sin. Link
When I read Silvia's post and see her opening statement, I don't see where she is referring to all churches, unless you think the phrase "The church" is referring to denominational church organizations. When I see the phrase the church, I think of the body of Christ in general. I kind of agree with what she is saying. These things are in the body of Christ today. The sad part is that we in the body of Christ let it happen.
These things are in our churches, and many pastors are afraid to do anything about it because they can be sued for removing someone from their church because our churches have been made public. The early church was private. They met in homes. And they wouldn't even open the door and let you in if you didn't have the proper testimony. That's the way I wish the church was today. So if there is evil in the "church," and someone is removed, which they should be removed according to the bible, that person can turn around and sue that church. And in today's society, they would win that lawsuit.
It's nice to see you here reading and sharing your thoughts with other believers. On that note, I spent most of my morning a few days ago responding to the several questions you had specifically for me, and in turn, I suggested that you might be fair in answering those I sent to you. Please, if you have the time, can you answer those questions I sent to you. If you didn't get them, I can re-send.
I feel that in the Church today & given our governmental laws, one must only preach against evil, & specifically of sins which insidiously creeps into the Church, so that the ground rules are set & the guilty amongst them may sense conviction or may even leave of his own accord. But when the Church overlooks it completely or preaches an 'easy salvation' which gives the hapless soul no certainty of salvation or of eternity, that Church will be condemned the more.
I'm glad you responded. I did not intend to make it seem like I was referring to the early church being like today's church. I hope others will not get that impression. I was a little sporadic in my thoughts, going from the church today, to the early church, and then back again, so I see how it can be taken the wrong way.
The church back in the first 300 years seemed to have their act together until Constantine came into the equation. Most of today's problems stem from the church becoming too large, and it was never intended to be that way, and I'll explain my reasoning in a second.
But I think most of our problems come from opening the door to everybody because we've become more concerned with numbers than teaching the truth of the gospel. It seems as though success is based on how much money the church makes, and how many people we can pack into the church. (Mega-Ministries)
The reason why I say that the church was never intended to be too large comes from studying the parable of the mustard seed. The mustard seed was not supposed to grow into such a large tree. I also have to keep in mind that in Mark's gospel, when Jesus was explaining the parable of the sower to the disciples, the first thing He said was, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
That's key to me. If I understand the parable of the sower, I will understand all parables. I can't understand the others without understanding the parable of the sower. So when I study the mustard seed, I conclude that the birds represent evil, as in the parable of the sower. So we have birds lodging in the branches of this mustard seed plant. I see the mustard seed plant as representing the church.
The seed is planted in the ground, and it grows to be a monstrous tree, which is not normal for this herb. The mustard seed does not grow into a tree. But it grows so large that the birds come and lodge in the branches. And these birds are evil, and they come and mix with the good.
Your understanding of the Mustard Seed parable was interesting though. I had never looked at it in that light, rather by the usual meaning: that the Word of God/Gospel being scattered/planted, & it would continue to spread out (grow) to the point of being a tree (i.e. a small tree/bush: wherein people that will become part of it, the Church) & the birds will lodge in its shadow (others will benefit by the Church, whether to hear God's message or receive comfort).
But I can see your understanding in view of the infiltration of evil into the Church. Indeed, the Church has become quite deformed today & increasingly lacking in its original design & beauty. Even though some adaptation to today's world needs to be made, I do also question to how far we have removed ourselves from her original design & purpose. But how do we get back to it? Start (another) Church? God forbid! Maybe, just to have a quiet influence in her through careful & methodical Biblical teaching & prayer.
I was humored about the whole starting another church thing For a second, I thought "Hey, great idea," but then reality soon set in, and the thought over arguing over the color of the carpet, paint on the outside of the building, cushions on the pews, or no cushions, etc. etc. etc. Good grief!
As always, thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words. God Bless!
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