Paul says one baptism! He is not talking about sprinkling or immersing. It was Paul who said in 1 Corinthians Chapter 12, Verse 13 that we are all baptized by one Spirit into the body of Christ.
It is a Hebrew phrase that Paul used to describe the salvation process, that when the Holy Spirit comes into a person's life, they are cleansed.
And baptism also means identification. In 1 Corinthians Chapter 10, the people in the wilderness were baptized unto Moses. There wasn't any baptism ceremony. But when they identified with him and went through the Red Sea, they called it baptism. It's identification.
But there's only one baptism that saves. That's the baptism of God's Spirit. And there's one God, Father of all, who is above all and through all, and in you all.
Do you get the idea that he's trying to say we're pretty much covered? He's in us, He's through us, and He's around us!
Amen that's a good thing , I guess what I was trying to ask is when you are baptized should you be baptized in the name of the Father in the Son and the Holy Spirit or in the name of Jesus ?
Matt. 28:19-20 is speaking of water baptism. However, water baptism does not save a person. There has to be a spiritual baptism or Spiritual birth. Back in Matt. 3:11, John says, I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
You see, John baptized with water. But Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit (Salvation), and with fire. And fire baptism is a baptism of judgment. That's not the baptism we want! A person who gets water baptized should already be saved. Water baptism is a testimony before others that there has been an inward change in their life (Spirit baptism).
I hope this is what you are asking. If, not I would be happy to respond back if you're looking for something else.
Hi Paul, my answer would remain the same if we are asking if water baptism is a necessity for salvation. I would still say it is not necessary because water baptism comes after salvation.
I believe a person who is saved can go their entire life not being water baptized and still remain saved. We know from scripture that Jesus told the thief on the cross next to Him that today you will be with me in paradise. There is no biblical evidence showing that he was water baptized.
Now, is it a necessity after salvation? I think water baptism is very important for a believer. The early church seemed to see it as being important. The Jews ceremoniously baptized everything, pots and pans, dishes, etc. I think it is important to understand what water baptism represented to the Jews, and also to the early church. It represented two things: cleansing (not salvation), and also identification.
Being water baptized is required in a lot of churches in order to become a member of that particular group. Again, it represents your identification with that group of believers. But the most important representation of water baptism would be your identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's who we identify with in baptism, and that is our testimony to those who are there as witnesses that we are identifying with Jesus Christ. The water baptism is a Physical outward expression of an inward Spiritual change. I believe it is a necessary part of a believer's life, but not required for salvation.
Yes, as a 'matter' of fact I did. However, there is something wrong with the link. I cannot review it. However, I would say that in the absence of matter, time is irrelevant. An abstraction.
Paul , I think we might be disconnecting somehow and I'm probably not being clear in response. If so, I apologize for that. There are two baptisms, one physical (Human), and one from God (Spiritual). Only one is for salvation, and the other would be for public record, as a testimony of salvation.
1 Peter 3:21 is not referring to water baptism. Peter is quick to tell us that he's not talking about water baptism. Peter says (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God). Your conscience is clear, and you're living as He would have you to do. And then it says by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. More literally, it is through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
That gives us the key because it says whereunto even baptism now saves us through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. So he's talking about Spirit baptism. It's the only one in the bible that says it is necessary for salvation.
Paul in 1 Corinthians 12:13 says for by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, bond or free, and we have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
When John the Baptist introduced Jesus as Messiah to Israel, he said that the Messiah's ministry would be the baptism of Spirit and fire.
Remember, baptism denotes two things, 1) Cleansing. If you are Spirit baptized, that is, when Christ comes into your spirit at salvation, your spirit is purified, cleansed of your sin. 2) Identification. It was more so in Paul's day than in ours. Whatever group you're going into, you get baptized. It shows that you're joining the group. But especially for Hebrew and Jewish people in Jerusalem that surrendered their life to Christ as their Messiah and Savior, they get baptized right there in Jerusalem, right in front of all the other Hebrew and Jewish people to show their identification.
If you are asking me if you should be water baptized, I would ask what is the Lord leading you to do. That would be the answer!
Hi Jesse. I understand you believe that water baptism is not necessary for salvation. That it is baptism by God through Holy Spirit that IS necessary. Wouldn't this take man out of the equation at Matt. 28:19-20? After all, it is the MEN that are making the disciples by means OF baptism. Or are you thinking that whether or not their baptism provides salvation is a matter to be determined by God? Thank you. Paul
Paul, I thought I've given a good explanation of my understanding of both Spirit and water baptisms. Apparently, I am not giving you the answer you are looking for. So before I can go any further, what is your understanding of water baptism? Do you think it is necessary for salvation? What makes a person a saved person? Also, do you think a disciple means a saved person? I want to respond, but right now it's beginning to feel like you are beating around the bush to get me to give you the answer you are looking for, and I haven't given you that answer yet!
Paul, please believe me when I say I'm not trying to be rude, but I only asked four simple questions. If you are only going to answer one at a time, and each answer comes with another question for me to answer, it could take several days to answer those four questions. You can please disregard the remainder of my questions as I am beginning to sense that I'm being played. Since I have failed to figure out exactly what you are looking for and my responses have not been sufficient enough, I hope someone here can do a better job helping you understand, if understanding is truly what you're seeking.
Larry, thank you for your kind and encouraging words, and also for the blessing. I send it right back to you. It is a fascinating study if you ever get a chance to research on-line Jewish baptisms, and how it differs from the way we baptize today. In Jesus' day, the person doing the baptizing didn't go in the water at all. So when John baptized Jesus, Jesus would have gone in the water alone. John was only there as a witness. But the person being baptized went in the water alone and they had to fully submerse themselves. If the witness would see just one hair not going completely under, that person would have to do it over again. But it is a fascinating study, along with reading Jewish lifestyles and practices, and how it parallels to the things Jesus presented during His earthly ministry.
d. does it make sense to baptize a person sometimes weeks, months, years down the road (of Christian living)? Does biblical baptism allow for this time scale? Does it not make it somewhat meaningless & only serves to satisfy obedience to the command to appease the conscience? Also, to whom is the command given? To the baptizer or baptizee? Yet, so often we see that the baptizee is the one requesting to be baptized? Very strange.
e. and lastly, were Christ's apostles ever baptized in water, bearing in mind, that Paul was baptised, as he was not present with them at Pentecost? There is no mention of it, that I'm aware of, of any of the apostles speaking of their baptism in their letters, as important an event it is for any believer. Does the fact that they were baptized with the Holy Ghost only, exclude the necessity for water baptism? And there would be some today, who are baptized with the Spirit without the intervention of a preacher/evangelist.
References cited: Acts 2:37-41; 8:26-39; 9:1-18; 10:44-48; 16:27-33. Given to highlight that churches for the most part, are not staying true to the biblical warrant & pattern. Baptism should be a part of a believer's salvation - today we detach it to suit our terms & make a solemn event almost meaningless. So just offering this up for your thoughts & discussion, if needed.
My reason for being water baptized was a statement to God and the devil. I was an astrologer and I had no clue how much spiritual warfare was going to follow me.
If we don't fill our house (me) with Gods Word; the demons will stop by frequently to see how it's going and if you're serious about following Jesus.
I wanted the water baptism to show God I am serious and that I belong to Him, forever. And I wanted to show Satan that I love God and fully intend to follow Jesus.
I was done going to church: and when the church would corporate pray for the demons to leave the service. Well those demons would say to me, you better get up and come with us. It was very disturbing.
I believe for me that the baptism was a beautiful experience just between me and my Lord. It wasn't a lot of scripture that made me do it. I know the Holy Spirit was helping me get from just survive mode to conquering mode. I expect that Water baptism is different for everybody. It's really personal. We should consider what our statement is before going under the water and say it to God.
Thanks Mishael for your input, particularly for the additional focus you had when being baptized. A life of dealing with the spirit world, not just fortune-telling, but with consultations & maybe divination, your baptism certainly gave witness to the supernatural world of your separation to the Holy things of God. That would have been a great testimony, fulfilment & freedom in your life.
Leigh, you've given some pertinent Scriptures on Water Baptism. What I find that churches today fail in (& I of course, refer to full immersion baptism) are the following:
a. why doesn't the person leading a lost soul to the Saviour, also baptize the person? I realize sometimes this would happen, but in most cases these days, the baptizee (one being baptized) is baptized by someone not connected to leading the soul to repentance. So who, from the biblical perspective & responsibility, should baptize the sinner? Is the Church fundamentally wrong in this, to allow another to baptize who was not a witness to the sinner's repentance?
b. why does the Church usually require the baptism enquirer to undergo a series of studies and/or interviews to ensure he knows the step he is about to take? Is this biblical? If the Pastor or Elder is unsure about the authenticity of the believer's testimony, can he in all good conscience baptize him?
c. why do we generally baptize within the Church building or property, when the other aspect of baptism is a public witness to a decision made & a changed life? I wouldn't say that fellow believers are true witnesses, rather they need to be the public or unsaved friends/relatives.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I'm okay with agreeing that water baptism matters, just not for salvation.
You are very wise for wanting to take God's word for what it says. I think deep down, that is the desire of us all. We all want to take the word for what it says. But what happens when we all take the same approach that you take and we take it for what it says and then we disagree with each other on what it says? What then? How would you explain that?
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys...
No man (flesh and blood) revealed it, so what did Peter do, seeing he had the keys, when asked?
Acts 2:37-40
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Well, he gave them the truth, as revealed to him.
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Peter also thought all who can be baptised should, and told them the correct name to use, not just titles, the name.
2 Timothy 3:16
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
All scripture, so we cannot discard a single thing, we must fit within ALL scripture, not make the scripture fit our way of thinking, that is why we have hundreds of denominations.
Peter was ignorant and unlearned by the way.
Acts 4:13
13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
So I take knowledge of them also, the Lord cannot be the Author of confusion.
We know it is the Blood of Christ alone that saves, otherwise He would have died in vain.
Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
The thief didn't require water baptism to be saved, had he lived and come in contact with disciples he'd have heard same commandment, his action would have been same as Eunich.
Acts 8:36
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
If the same Spirit that wrote the Word, be in us then would not that Spirit obey His own Word. And would It not act the same way in us as it did in them?
As for churches and people, I cannot say, but we all know that God is only obligated to His Word, for He is the Word, and heaven and earth shall pass away, but His words shall not pass away.
Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Psalms 119:6
Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
2 Corinthians 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
And Christ is the Word.
1 John 1:1
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Ezekiel 36:27
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments.
John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:
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Paul says one baptism! He is not talking about sprinkling or immersing. It was Paul who said in 1 Corinthians Chapter 12, Verse 13 that we are all baptized by one Spirit into the body of Christ.
It is a Hebrew phrase that Paul used to describe the salvation process, that when the Holy Spirit comes into a person's life, they are cleansed.
And baptism also means identification. In 1 Corinthians Chapter 10, the people in the wilderness were baptized unto Moses. There wasn't any baptism ceremony. But when they identified with him and went through the Red Sea, they called it baptism. It's identification.
But there's only one baptism that saves. That's the baptism of God's Spirit. And there's one God, Father of all, who is above all and through all, and in you all.
Do you get the idea that he's trying to say we're pretty much covered? He's in us, He's through us, and He's around us!
Matt. 28:19-20 is speaking of water baptism. However, water baptism does not save a person. There has to be a spiritual baptism or Spiritual birth. Back in Matt. 3:11, John says, I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
You see, John baptized with water. But Christ baptizes with the Holy Spirit (Salvation), and with fire. And fire baptism is a baptism of judgment. That's not the baptism we want! A person who gets water baptized should already be saved. Water baptism is a testimony before others that there has been an inward change in their life (Spirit baptism).
I hope this is what you are asking. If, not I would be happy to respond back if you're looking for something else.
I believe a person who is saved can go their entire life not being water baptized and still remain saved. We know from scripture that Jesus told the thief on the cross next to Him that today you will be with me in paradise. There is no biblical evidence showing that he was water baptized.
Now, is it a necessity after salvation? I think water baptism is very important for a believer. The early church seemed to see it as being important. The Jews ceremoniously baptized everything, pots and pans, dishes, etc. I think it is important to understand what water baptism represented to the Jews, and also to the early church. It represented two things: cleansing (not salvation), and also identification.
Being water baptized is required in a lot of churches in order to become a member of that particular group. Again, it represents your identification with that group of believers. But the most important representation of water baptism would be your identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That's who we identify with in baptism, and that is our testimony to those who are there as witnesses that we are identifying with Jesus Christ. The water baptism is a Physical outward expression of an inward Spiritual change. I believe it is a necessary part of a believer's life, but not required for salvation.
1 Peter 3:21 is not referring to water baptism. Peter is quick to tell us that he's not talking about water baptism. Peter says (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God). Your conscience is clear, and you're living as He would have you to do. And then it says by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. More literally, it is through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
That gives us the key because it says whereunto even baptism now saves us through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. So he's talking about Spirit baptism. It's the only one in the bible that says it is necessary for salvation.
Paul in 1 Corinthians 12:13 says for by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, bond or free, and we have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
When John the Baptist introduced Jesus as Messiah to Israel, he said that the Messiah's ministry would be the baptism of Spirit and fire.
Remember, baptism denotes two things, 1) Cleansing. If you are Spirit baptized, that is, when Christ comes into your spirit at salvation, your spirit is purified, cleansed of your sin. 2) Identification. It was more so in Paul's day than in ours. Whatever group you're going into, you get baptized. It shows that you're joining the group. But especially for Hebrew and Jewish people in Jerusalem that surrendered their life to Christ as their Messiah and Savior, they get baptized right there in Jerusalem, right in front of all the other Hebrew and Jewish people to show their identification.
If you are asking me if you should be water baptized, I would ask what is the Lord leading you to do. That would be the answer!
I am not sure I understand your question?
Acts 10:44
"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word."
Acts 10:48| View Chapter| Context
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Acts 8:38| View Chapter| Context
And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Both went down into the water and he baptised him.
Matthew 28:19| View Chapter| Context
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Did not even the Lord command us to go and teach all nations baptizing them in His name.
From the Word it is important, from the Word there was a way of doing it, from the Word we have been told to do it.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
The Word is our absolute and that we all agree.
God bless you my Brothers, as for me, in humility to His Word, I want to take it just as He said it or moved His people to write It.
d. does it make sense to baptize a person sometimes weeks, months, years down the road (of Christian living)? Does biblical baptism allow for this time scale? Does it not make it somewhat meaningless & only serves to satisfy obedience to the command to appease the conscience? Also, to whom is the command given? To the baptizer or baptizee? Yet, so often we see that the baptizee is the one requesting to be baptized? Very strange.
e. and lastly, were Christ's apostles ever baptized in water, bearing in mind, that Paul was baptised, as he was not present with them at Pentecost? There is no mention of it, that I'm aware of, of any of the apostles speaking of their baptism in their letters, as important an event it is for any believer. Does the fact that they were baptized with the Holy Ghost only, exclude the necessity for water baptism? And there would be some today, who are baptized with the Spirit without the intervention of a preacher/evangelist.
References cited: Acts 2:37-41; 8:26-39; 9:1-18; 10:44-48; 16:27-33. Given to highlight that churches for the most part, are not staying true to the biblical warrant & pattern. Baptism should be a part of a believer's salvation - today we detach it to suit our terms & make a solemn event almost meaningless. So just offering this up for your thoughts & discussion, if needed.
If we don't fill our house (me) with Gods Word; the demons will stop by frequently to see how it's going and if you're serious about following Jesus.
I wanted the water baptism to show God I am serious and that I belong to Him, forever. And I wanted to show Satan that I love God and fully intend to follow Jesus.
I was done going to church: and when the church would corporate pray for the demons to leave the service. Well those demons would say to me, you better get up and come with us. It was very disturbing.
I believe for me that the baptism was a beautiful experience just between me and my Lord. It wasn't a lot of scripture that made me do it. I know the Holy Spirit was helping me get from just survive mode to conquering mode. I expect that Water baptism is different for everybody. It's really personal. We should consider what our statement is before going under the water and say it to God.
a. why doesn't the person leading a lost soul to the Saviour, also baptize the person? I realize sometimes this would happen, but in most cases these days, the baptizee (one being baptized) is baptized by someone not connected to leading the soul to repentance. So who, from the biblical perspective & responsibility, should baptize the sinner? Is the Church fundamentally wrong in this, to allow another to baptize who was not a witness to the sinner's repentance?
b. why does the Church usually require the baptism enquirer to undergo a series of studies and/or interviews to ensure he knows the step he is about to take? Is this biblical? If the Pastor or Elder is unsure about the authenticity of the believer's testimony, can he in all good conscience baptize him?
c. why do we generally baptize within the Church building or property, when the other aspect of baptism is a public witness to a decision made & a changed life? I wouldn't say that fellow believers are true witnesses, rather they need to be the public or unsaved friends/relatives.
(see ongoing comment)
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I'm okay with agreeing that water baptism matters, just not for salvation.
You are very wise for wanting to take God's word for what it says. I think deep down, that is the desire of us all. We all want to take the word for what it says. But what happens when we all take the same approach that you take and we take it for what it says and then we disagree with each other on what it says? What then? How would you explain that?
Matthew 16:15-19
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys...
No man (flesh and blood) revealed it, so what did Peter do, seeing he had the keys, when asked?
Acts 2:37-40
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Well, he gave them the truth, as revealed to him.
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Peter also thought all who can be baptised should, and told them the correct name to use, not just titles, the name.
2 Timothy 3:16
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
All scripture, so we cannot discard a single thing, we must fit within ALL scripture, not make the scripture fit our way of thinking, that is why we have hundreds of denominations.
Peter was ignorant and unlearned by the way.
Acts 4:13
13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
So I take knowledge of them also, the Lord cannot be the Author of confusion.
Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
The thief didn't require water baptism to be saved, had he lived and come in contact with disciples he'd have heard same commandment, his action would have been same as Eunich.
Acts 8:36
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
If the same Spirit that wrote the Word, be in us then would not that Spirit obey His own Word. And would It not act the same way in us as it did in them?
As for churches and people, I cannot say, but we all know that God is only obligated to His Word, for He is the Word, and heaven and earth shall pass away, but His words shall not pass away.
Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Psalms 119:6
Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
2 Corinthians 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
And Christ is the Word.
1 John 1:1
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Ezekiel 36:27
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments.
John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:
God bless
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