Man is incapable of knowing how Holy and Just God is and we're also incapable of knowing how evil man is apart from the restrainer.
We see a picture of the evil of man in Revelation when the nations take up war against the Lord.
Also look at the evil condition of their heart here in Revelation 16:9-11 while being tormented.
Also see Psalms 2:1-12.
Romans 11:33 states. "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
God gives life and he can take it!
The trouble with atheist is that they don't believe God gave life!
They have no understanding of deity.
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me. Deuteronomy 32:39.
Can't you just picture it in your mind? How beautiful it will be the new earth pure untouched by sin, we will have a joy and peace we have never known. There is much given to us in these verses.
It is said by Catholics that marriage is a sacrament that is only necessitated by the vow a man makes with a woman; and I agree with that view despite disagreeing with many other things in their belief system. The idea of a minister to oversee the event from what I can tell helps to involve two or three witnesses (usually along with parents) such as 2 Corinthians 13:1 states. There are other verses as well; none directly discuss a marriage or any other vow; but it does apply in the fact that should one or more parties violate the covenant church discipline can be used against them. I am not sure how things are in the big picture but it seems whenever marriages do occur it is often in another church that the family prefers and many times there is little sense of a whole congregation being involved at least like they used to in the past. Maybe I am off somewhat but that's how I see it.
Good counsel is helpful in that respect however; if anything to keep a healthy balance of older women guiding the youth and allowing for good interactions and support. This is something more favorable it seems today in the Reformed churches from my experiences. Such interactions of a church being a family of course should extend to foreign missionaries that are affiliated with a denomination. It is a shame when we think of missionaries being "out there" and we detach ourselves emotionally when we give financial support. Their marriages and family are components of their witness as much as their evangelism and one can't be separated from the other; although of course some are single individuals on the mission field.
Again; it is sad to say that from my viewpoint there is a tolerance for remarriage in these same sort of congregations (although many won't perform them). I would say that existing marriages have greater chance of longevity and less for divorce in the Reformed circles than others who have 50 percent divorce rates as all of society if they marry at all.
I was in a very odd situation with a former OPC church I attended where I was granted a sort of "partial" membership without ascribing to their stance on infant baptism. There are a couple other issues which would keep me out of a similar place in the future (that church shut down 6 or 7 years ago due to lack of attendance). I will say that it wasn't required that I believed in their stance on Postmillenialism; although I may have mentioned here in the past when it was brought up how foolish it was to believe in the Antichrist and Mark of the Beast in one of their sermons and I took them up on that they sort of backed down. It wasn't a requirement to adhere to their eschatology, although it was a rather cliquish sort of mentality at that place. I agreed to disagree with them without such banter so I thought it only fair; however of course it was their belief.
In any case; infant baptism has cast a rather nebulous picture in my mind as to explanations; somehow holding what children or infants were commemorated with when they become adults and rebel as if they had some sort of inherent partaking of a covenant; I suppose equivalent to the Israelites who were "baptized" by crossing the Red Sea. ( 1 Cor. 10:2). No one I know actually thinks someone is saved through infant baptism but nonetheless they seem in my mind to have carried on a Catholic tradition through the Reformers in the past. I also had a "rebaptism"; having argued beforehand the sprinkling of water should also be legitimate ( Ezekiel 36:25). In my case I had it done that way along with my wife at the time because she had a balance issue going totally underwater; but I rededicated myself to a commitment as a church member when I had an immersion at the founding of a church I used to attend at its inception almost 10 years ago. Seeing how quickly Philip baptized the eunuch in Acts 8; and the jailor with his family ( Acts 16:33) it should follow salvation quickly.
I don't wish to take part in this conversation, but one thing comes into my mind.
There are scriptures in the Bible that show Jesus as a human being. We all know those scriptures and you have mentioned many so far. But on the other hand there are scriptures that show Jesus as a God. Some brothers and sisters have pointed them out to you. If one deletes either side gets into wrong conclusions. If one considers only those who show Him as a man then they will conclude that Jesus is only a man. If one selects only those who show Him as a God, then they will wrongly conclude that He is only God. You have to take both into account to get the right picture of Jesus. GBU
The '1260 days' is a tag supplied the Spirit to indicate the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ. By the same token the Gentiles are allowed to operate for 42 months. The 42 months' similarly is a tag. In an earlier post we saw 'the hour" during which the power of darkness prevailing over the children of disobedience. ( Luke 22:53). The beast as well as the enemies to Jesus who took him in the night belonged to the son of perdition. Judas Iscariot belonged to this group. This conflict reveals two laws, of the Spirit and of the sin.
Let us look at the characteristics of the two witnesses. They are representatives of several prophets coming under the earthly ministry of Jesus who is the fulfillment of the law. They were "clothed in sackcloth'. It echoes the mourning of Daniel for three weeks,"(Dan.10:2-3)
"And have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will." This recalls to us the seven plagues of Egypt" and of Elijah, "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy." In short these two witnesses present a composite picture of heroes of faith(He.11:33-38)
On the flip side the number 42 months gives the beast who is a composite figure. John the Baptist was beheaded under a Herod and we have the beast in the Acts of the Apostles, "Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church./And he killed James the brother of John with the sword./And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also."(Ac.12:1-3)
Finally " Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein." This temple is not anything extant but what was founded on Zion. (1s.28:16) We see its culmination in Re.21.22-23
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it./... for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof."
Jeremiah 15:16 says: Your words were found, and I ate them, and your words became to me a joy and the delight of my heart, for I am called by your name, O Lord, God of hosts.
I have in a previous post discussed various methods of daily devotionals. There is pure scripture reading (for instance with a read the Bible in a year app); or "Daily Bread" or deeper things such as Oswald Chambers which I personally recommended for its depth and conviction level. When confined by a busy daily routine of work and personal responsibilities this approach of an allotted 15 minutes or so doesn't give us enough time for an exhaustive concordance analysis; or study of cross references; or examining the original Greek; Aramaic; or Hebrew; etc.
My ADHD type of mind (at least that is what I was diagnosed as about 30 years ago) tends to wander; thus making set times and planned studies more laborious than others (not overlooking my own sin and distractions). It certainly is important that we don't confine our meditation on the Word just to that allotted devotional session. I have found for myself that reading big chunks of material then later digesting it sometimes can have some benefits. First of all; once we have familiarized ourselves with scripture in general; certain passages tend to trigger once again things we have taken in that are proven; tried and true and we can relate to as aiding in our personal struggles and growth. I tend to do things backwards; in other words read a bunch of details then later see the big picture; much as I tend to start a drawing from a small spot then later on come up with a much better artist sketch than if I deliberately premeditated that I would draw a specific subject.
In open air preaching; it does help to have verses in our minds even if we have tracts as usually a formal sermon isn't the best approach in that arena with people coming and going. Having an attitude of worship and praise (part 2
Ugh. I just cut off my comment again with some stupid button on my computer. In short I am impressed by your superior wit and content with any subject; clearly it is superior to mine. I hope I'm not just enjoying the sound of my own voice; so to speak with all my commentary. I intend to make better use of my time with devoting more to evangelism and service in the future; this time I have had in my current situation is limited to have this much available for this site.
I was also starting to comment on my confusion about heaven and hell experiences. There was a supposed resurrection of an African pastor I heard about yesterday from Nov. 2001 which seemed iron clad with a picture of the mortuary statement with time of death; relateive testifying; etc. In any case this guy seems to have disappeared off the radar since 2002 when someone was supposed to have interviewed him. There are a few people like Bill Weise who at least has much scripture that is discussed corroborating with his story. When people are clinically dead the question is how long does it take for the soul to actually enter eternity? As for me; people sometimes express annoyance when anyone says the Lord has shown them something; but such things as the mark of the Beast were clearly shown to the point that the terror is so great that it used to leave me with a feeling of vertigo; beyond what I can handle. I have felt a clear calling to preach on that matter since my conversion in 1982. Spiritual discernment is my gifting as you probably are aware; but I am still mystified by the way He works. I know that obedience and disciplines help us in strength; but the times when there seems to be a particular anointing still seem unpredictable. I can think of 3 individuals in my life who have a gift of discernment out of probably hundreds I have known.
It seems God has until now closed the door for me to move out. I strongly feel that I need to continue communicating with my old roommate
I too have what is called spiritual discernment. I thought it would be prudent to differentiate between someone who is very sensitive to emotions; and someone who is able to sense both good and evil which is a spiritual gift.
Normally; of course there is some crossover; I believe the Lord often uses someone who is very open and instills the spiritual gift.
The danger here is that when we sense evil we are overwhelmed quite often; I assume it isn't the presence of God around someone that causes too much of your distress. That can be overwhelming though as well.
First off; if someone is truly being driven by a demon you need to be able to stand on the authority of the Lord; and become wise as to when to say something and when to remain silent and in a prayer mode. The Lord likely will make that clear to you if for instance; someone starts manifesting then you need to take charge and perhaps do a deliverance. That involves several things; such as getting a person to want to repent of strongholds that are giving a demon legal authority to torment them.
There are some out there openly worshipping the Devil; and others who are influenced that way who want nothing to do with God. God of course gives us a spirit of boldness; not fear. It is helpful to understand common sins that bind people and also be cautious that you yourself aren't tempted. The enemy will give you many doubts but if you are called for deliverance ministry others will be there to guide you in what to do.
What is another factor here is sensing these things in the congregation; again when there are problems often sin has entered the camp so to speak. What we don't know right away are the physiological and other issues that give us a more complete picture of what's going on until we get to know somebody better. I find it helpful when I sense the Lord strongly around someone to find out why; and hopefully learn something from them. I pray you can balance your gifts with others.
The "emotions" of God: Covenant relationships and their implications.
My previous posting mentioned covenants as a major facet in explaining the reactions of God toward His own children as a focus but having repercussions for the whole earth. God has established this world itself for eternal purposes; and He will have a new heaven and earth to eventually rectify the sin issue once and for all. Death; of course entered the picture and marred everything on earth and even apparently in the heavens as even the stars aren't pure in His sight ( Job 25:5).
The first "marriage" may not seem as such without any formal ceremony but nonetheless God designed it with Eve being taken out of man to be a permanent covenant. They would of course have lived forever without sin (likely without the tree of life) but nonetheless they would have ensured it by eating from that tree. But they were entranced with another; that of the knowledge of good and evil. Of course that name basically is something Satan implied it represented; God had just said not to eat the tree in the midst of the garden without going into further detail. My point here is that this covenant between man and woman to be repeated up to this day was originally designed to be for life and like all other covenants we can violate it or apparently "break" it but on God's end it remains binding. This goes to any scriptural vows where God's name is invoked as well (although that can be permanent). Since man sinned death now is the only permissible way this lifetime commitment can be broken the way I see it.
I have discussed before the situation with the Gibeonites who tricked Israel to make a covenant with them and it was therefore binding as to the terms agreed on. These terms exist with property covenants as well; and also to the Promised Land as promised to the Patriarchs to this day (again some would argue with that). This gives God's hot wrath an explanation to this day for enemy invaders.
Today; one of the Deacons in our church gave a thought provoking sermon which was boiled down to looking up to the Lord; and not sugar coating where things in the world were headed going into 2024.
There are general parameters that would steer a Christian toward one side of the two political parties. If any of us possess the slightest wisdom (whether worldly or above) it becomes clear to us that promises that are made and the media spin should never be taken without the preverbial "grain of salt". We also need to hold politicians accountable. It is very unclear to me why Americans aren't protesting what is becoming clearly a plan for our country to be invaded and overrun. We have become accustomed to letting government handle all of our problems whether it is financial; "birth control"; or so called national security. The big picture for everyone in a fallen world is that there are many chameleons out there; people either find a new way to do the same old sin; or they find a new sin to embed themselves with. This is clear from the abortion issue; now it is "safe and easy" according to how it is spun to terminate a human life with a pill these days which is where the majority of abortions are done today. One could; perhaps seem the same logic with the beheadings during the Tribulation; it is a quick and compared to other techniques more painless method of mass killings than other means which I suppose martyrs will be grateful for.
In general; we should continue as long as we are able to work out the command of the Great Commission until the government forceably stops us en masse through whatever means necessary; or the mobs in the streets decide to execute vengeance themselves on who they will with impunity (which sadly we are clearly approaching with current events).
IF the Lord tarries the best we can hope for with a regime change is many months; probably at least a couple years of great sacrifice.
We can find verses, that when isolated, can seem to teach that OUR WORKS of Believing and Repentance are contributory TOWARDS our salvation. But in coming to an understanding of any doctrine in the Bible we must harmonize every verse in Scripture that relates to the question.
When we do this, we must conclude that our GOOD WORKS of any sort are the RESULT of God's gift of salvation which He bestows on each and every one of His elect, not BECAUSE we do these things but as the EVIDENCE and CHARACTER of a New Creation in Christ as we read in the Galatians and Romans passages I quoted earlier and many others.
The passage that, in my view, speaks most clearly regarding the Nature of Salvation is Ezekiel 36:24-34. Note here that every action is God's action, not man's action. And that our Repentance and Belief are the RESULT of God's actions in salvation, never the CAUSE nor the REASON.
I want to be a million miles away from any Gospel that even hints that our works contribute in any way to our Salvation.
By Grace are you saved through faith(Christ's faith not our faith). And that not of ourselves. It is the gift of God in His in comprehensible Mercy. Not of our works lest any man should boast. (forgive me for not quoting chapter and verse for these last statements, but I'm sure you are familiar).
I never want to be that man in Numbers who picked up a few sticks on the Sabbath and was executed for that seemingly incidental sin. A dramatic picture of what happens if we look to any good work that we do or have done to affect our salvation.
John 10:34- seems to be a popular verse here. People want to believe they are a god, is that what's happening here? That would be a gross misinterpretation. You know this is a quote with a question mark at the end, right? Let's be honest about it. Here's the commentary for that:
Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?
As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?
God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV
You: Word was "NOT" God?
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV
Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?
Isaiah 7:14 -
Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)
Hi F Major. 1 Peter 1:2 tells us, "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."
The Apostle Peter wrote this letter to Christians, mainly of Jewish birth, who were scattered to other nations (mainly resulting from the great persecutions from the Jewish leaders/Saul: Acts 8:1). Peter calls them the Elect of God, i.e. those whom God has chosen to be His. And what criterion did God use to make this selection? The Word tells us that they, and us who believe, are chosen by Him because He knew beforehand (foreknowledge) all those who would hear the Gospel of Salvation through Christ & would respond in faith.
So yes, God has chosen each one of us who believes - He didn't force us to believe just so that we wouldn't nullify His wise choosing by Him making a mistake; but He knew who would respond & to these were granted the gift & privilege of being adopted into His family (see Ephesians 1:3-14 for a greater picture of this mighty Work of God on our behalf). Does this then mean that we don't need to share the Gospel with those trapped & lost in sin because God will save them anyway if they are called to be His elect? No, we must share the Gospel with all, because not only are we not privy to those who would be saved, but God has chosen to save some because when they hear the Gospel, they will believe by the convicting power of His Spirit, & they will call upon the Name of Jesus to save them from the awful penalty of sin & estrangement from a loving God.
"Unto you therefore which believe he is precious..." ( 1 Peter 2:7). If we truly belong to the LORD, Jesus is the most Precious One in our lives, for He has chosen us to be saved with so great & costly a salvation. Unbelievers might stomp on Jesus, curse & ridicule Him - but to us He is precious and our delight, & we can be ever thankful for being chosen to be His.
I am speaking of those who are repeatedly guilty in the flesh. They would be even more guilty in the practice of presumptuous sin.
Ultimately, this is blasphemous to the teachings of God's Word. God's forgiveness of our sin is eternal. But, there are consequences to the commission of willful sin in the belief beforehand that God will make it all right- presumptive in believing by doing so God has granted permission.
Paul was very adamant that pastors and teachers are held to an even greater standard.
Would a church or body of believers be led by such a person? It seems the body of elders would be remiss if they allowed such a person to lead worship or serve in any capacity of leadership.
I believe God has the power to forgive even the most vile of sinners, and unlike us the power also to forget. But to repair such a rift with God is on the shoulders of the sinner in genuinely seeking forgiveness instead of assuming it!
If we viewed the sins and transgressions of any one of us as torn pieces of a picture, God has the power to tape us back together. The damaged image would again be whole, but the seams created by our memories have to remain as lessons to us; thus consequences.
It seems to me evident that the person standing before God should be disqualified to lead others because that is not in accordance with the Scriptures.
Thank you Shabbat Keeper for coming back to me. I'll respond to your three recent posts to me with my one here.
Firstly, on the name 'Gehenna', otherwise called the "Valley of Hinnom", the Encyclopaedia definition is quite correct about the purpose why that area was set aside. It was indeed a place for the burning of refuse & the dead. And yes, it meant that they were all annihilated - no more evidence except dust & ashes. So, it can mean 'annihilation', but Gehenna can also mean 'a place of burning where the fires are never quenched'. And we know that the body is disposed of there, but what about the immaterial parts of man that remains accountable to God? And you also referenced a verse I quoted in Matthew 10:28. Taken on its own, that verse could well support your belief of a complete extermination of body, soul & spirit.
But it was for that very reason that I gave you the other verses to look up & consider. Not only was Matthew 10:28 Jesus' Words, but also Matthew 5:22,29,30; Matthew 23:33; Mark 9:43; Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:10,11-15. You didn't take these into account. And we know, as I trust you are conversant, that when we deal with a topic or a doctrine from the Bible, we need to take in all the references that deal specifically with it. Unfortunately, our natural human instinct is to accept only those that we find palatable or in agreement with, thus distorting the teaching from the Word.
So, if you would care to look at those other verses & see how they affect your understanding of Matthew 10:28, I would be very interested. It's only when we consider all verses on a subject, can we get a fuller picture of it meaning & its implications. However, sometimes there aren't too many verses to help us learn about the subject - in such cases we can't force a teaching by them & just leave the subject open. Yet, not so with these important doctrines of the Deity of Christ & human existence & punishment after death.
The Bottles of heaven "clouds": it is an allusion to the girbahs, In the Hebrew its nay'-bel its a skin bag for liquids or bottles made of skin, in which they are accustomed to carry their water
God is asking Job does he know how God controls the weather!
It has nothing to do with you and I being a old bag of wine and it doesn't have anything that suggests one day we will be Gods.
I'm telling you this because that is what Jordyn is presenting to you.
Be careful! He has a way of spiritualizing the scripture and making it say what he wants it to say.
We know him well, He's been on this site for many years under several different names presenting this false doctrine.
The clouds in Hebrews is "nephos" it's used to picture a large dense multitude.
The clouds used in Job is "shachaq"
a powder (as beaten small); by analogy a thin vapor; by extension the firmament: - {cloud} small {dust} {heaven} sky. (Strongs definition in the Hebrew.)
The usage has no parallel.
Read Job 38:1-41 and get the context.
Now concerning the wine skins in Matthew 9:14-17.
verse 14 Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?
John was the Last of the old testament prophets.
He came to announce the coming of the King.
Christ came to usher in something New.
Verse 16 and 17 Christ explains the change of dispensations.
The old dispensation of law was ending and Christ didn't come to patch it up, He came to present a new garment.
We being the body of Christ and Christ being the Head represents we being baptized into union with Christ and him being Lord over his body. He's the head and Lord over our lives by the quickening Spirit that rose Christ from the dead.
We know that GOD CURSED the Earth because disobedience of man,and warned him,saying:"Thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to thee;...in sorrow shall you eat of it all the days of thy life;In the sweat of thy face shall you eat bread,till you return unto the ground;out of it wast you taken:for dust you art,and unto dust shall you return.
As above described,the terrible picture after GOD cursed the Earth, what our GOD meant by His words or even revealed when He said of the existence of the world of Devil full of"Thorns and thistles"? Well,with the proliferation of human beings after Earth had been CURSED by Him,nations would emerge or be formed on Earth,and would be like"thorns and thistles".GOD said: Numbers 33:52-55
55If ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you;then it shall come to pass,that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes,and thorns in your sides,and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.
52Ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures,and all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:
53And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land,and dwell therein:for I have given you the land to possess it.
Joshua 23:11-16
11Take good heed therefore unto yourselves,that ye love the Lord your GOD.
13Know that the Lord GOD will no more drive out any of these nations from before you;but they shall be snares and traps unto you,and scourges in your sides,and THORNS in your eyes,until ye perish from off this good land which the Lord your GOD hath given you.
Rev.11:15&12:12
15The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our Lord,and of His Christ;He shall reign for ever and ever.
12Therefore rejoice,ye heavens,and ye that dwell in them.Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!for the Devil is come down unto you,having great wrath,because he knows that he has but a short time.
Just a few things, I am sorry you feel you have been lied to, there are different interpretations out there. If we study Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 together it helps.
I have found when studying the Bible, we should not start with a preconceived idea, it is easy to see Scriptures that fit a picture we have painted in our mind rather than letting the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit reveal the true meaning.
First, Jesus's death and resurrection were hidden from them, Luke 18:31-34. Even after he was crucified, they were distraught and did not understand the fact that he was killed. John 16:16-20 and we have Luke 24:4-6. Not knowing Jesus was going to die would they be asking Jesus about His second coming?
Is all of Matthew 24 about the end time, many combined it with other prophecies to create a picture of the end time. Some of it is obviously about Jesus's second coming but much of it was to prepare them for what they were to endure up to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. False prophets we see there were many before 70 AD, Acts 21:36-38Acts 8:9 and others. If we look at history there were wars, earthquakes, and famine, Acts 7:11 and Acts 11:28.
Many put Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14 at the end time with an antichrist, should we not consider what Luke wrote about the same thing, Luke 21:20 that history has recorded?
One other thing why would Jesus say to pray their flee would not be on a Sabbath day? Today would not be a problem with the transportation we have. Back then the gates of Jerusalem would be locked and would be hard to get out and it would take days to get clear, with a pace of 2.5 mph.
I am with you, we sleep in the grave until resurrection the first of those who are chosen and faithful, Rev. 17:14 at Jesus's second coming and the second, the rest of the dead at the white throne judgment/the sheep and the goats and those whose names are not in the book of life is cast into the lake of fire, Rev. 20:15.
Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.
God has many warnings in scripture regarding not making idols of created beings or heavenly objects such as the moon and stars. This verse shows how God cannot be reduced to a man made concept or picture."
Would you not then agree that the concept of the trinity falls under such category as an "IMAGE and IMAGINATION OF MAN"?
If the concept is not taught anywhere in the Bible, that succinctly defines it as a creation/imagination of man.
The concept of God being three persons is an IDOL, it is an IMAGE created by the IMAGINATION OF MAN.
This IDOL has been sold to the masses, it has been delivered to hundreds of millions, if not billions, who accept and embrace it without question or personal investigation into its Scriptural authenticity.
Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.
God has many warnings in scripture regarding not making idols of created beings or heavenly objects such as the moon and stars. This verse shows how God cannot be reduced to a man made concept or picture.
Colossians 1:15 states: "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." This verse is discussing Christ who although He came in a man is part of the Godhead; so certainly we shouldn't have images of Him either; especially to be venerated or worshipped. As to whether; say a stained glass window is equally offensive we have to look to the heart of those who are attending a church service; as sadly some even with such an object as that will find some feature that seems to have some supernatural light in the image which is idolotry. The same could be said for the Apostles on such imagery; a Protestant wouldn't have any desire normally to make it an idol; but other denominations such as Greek Orthodox have statues of "saints" which clearly constitute worship that is against scripture.
John 1:18 states that no man has ever seen God but in Christ we in a sense see Him. His attributes including the Godhead are said to be clear from creation ( Romans 1:20). This was said to be known from the time of Creation according to the beginning of this verse. This shows that only later the nations departed from the knowledge that Adam and his immediate descendants would have instilled in them; there was deliberate rebellion against the Creator throughout the earth; both after the garden and after the flood with the tower of Babel and then God confusing the languages and scattering men throughout the earth (see Genesis 10:25 on likely splitting off of continents and dispersion of men).
In my last post; I explained briefly how there is a divide between Eastern and Western nations and their alliances. As to an opinion on the matter; it is easy to be myopic and insist that our country can do no wrong or the opposite as seems politically expedient today; we excoriate all those who until recent years were heralded as honorable forefathers of our nation. This same mindset can skew the big picture; those of the old school think of Russia today as communist when it is in reality a nationalist mindset and has supported the church by and large. In all due respect it is heavily skewed toward the Eastern or Russian Orthodox; and very recently has started showing blowback and persecution to those in the church that do not support the political agenda.
Those we consider "enemies" used to be friends; case in point Russia who was our ally during World War Two (albeit we basically gave them much of Eastern Europe at the end of the war when allowing them to be the first to invade German territory). Japan has gone from being part of the "Axis of Evil" to our best ally in the last 50 years or so. Afghanistan was our ally as well; and we even supported Bin Laden (I believe he was on Newsweek as man of the year or something to that affect; much like Hitler was in the 1930's. Many of us are naive as to history; so of course it repeats itself (or as Ecclesiastes 1:9 says there is nothing new under the sun). Of course there are allies (take India for example) where persecution of Christians is some of the worst in the world; in this case by Hindus; not the Muslims who also are persecuting believers with our allies such as Saudi Arabia; Turkey and many other nations.
In these issues; we need to be careful to honor covenant agreements in the past with sovereign nations and their boundaries. The desire to eliminate ancient boundaries is dangerous ( Prov. 22:28)
Concluding this first topic on God's attributes related to anger we also see the imprecatory Psalms; that is those Bible scriptures that plead with God for judgment to occur on our enemies. These verses sometimes are general in nature which David would say in his long struggle with Saul and those perusing Him. David is a good example for us of forgiveness in that regard; as Saul was cornered multiple times and because he was still recognized as the anointed king David didn't take the opportunity to slay him. Even at his death he mourned for him as we see in 2 Samuel 1. There was no PERSONAL vendetta here; much as there isn't with Christ who will rule and reign with justice ( Isaiah 11:3-4) but with righteousness; in other words He will work with God's direction and not let external circumstances skew the picture.
When studying God's anger our first reaction is to understand his attitude toward gross external manifestations of sin; which surely is the state of the world today more than ever. As I said in the last post He chastises all those he loves ( Heb. 12:6). God allowed collateral damage both with David's sin with Bathsheeba ( 2 Samuel 11:3-4) and with the census ( 2 Samuel 24:12). We find it illogical why many innocent had to die in such instances but David brought wars upon himself and others and many died in the second census incident with its after affects. Therefore it is following God's precepts as to HOW to worship and heeding His warnings against sin that are crucial. Saul began his fall by trying to offer a sacrifice himself in an unauthorized procedure as a king. ( 1 Samuel 13:8-14). David didn't trust God's strength when he took the census. This was much the reason Solomon fell as well; he hoarded gold and silver and foreign women as wives all which God warned about. (see 1 Kings 1:11; Deut. 17:17). Those who He loves go through the refining fire; let us pass the test so we can rejoice at the Bema Seat (2 Cor510
God is angry with the nations as well as individuals. Revelation 11:18 begins a discussion of God's wrath and it is accomplished when the winepress is trod alone by Christ ( Isaiah 63:3) which mirrors Armageddon as described in Revelation 19; but also the campaign of the Exekiel 38 war and the nations God destroys in the process.
In such a topic; of course we see other attributes of God balancing things such as wrath and anger with patience and longsuffering of the Lord; for instance. In all this discussion it is important to see how a balanced picture of our Lord brings a better focus as to who He is. We can't just focus on anger or there is no hope for His love; but the same holds true for those who only want to hear "encouraging" verses in scripture. As famously stated we either have all of Christ or we have in reality none of Him. We must take the whole counsel of the Word of God rather than cherry picking what we want as context gets thrown out the window at best with that mindset; and at worst whole doctrinal truths are cast aside. Such is the action of such deists as Benjamin Franklin apparently. The flesh really doesn't even comprehend God's love; for human love and its vicissitudes clearly can't be trusted ( Jeremiah 17:9) as our heart is desperately wicked and who can know it? God judges impartially and is not a "respecter of persons" ( Romans 2:11-16; Acts 10:34). He is entirely righteous and no one can argue with Him once judgment comes. As Psalm 2 states we should "kiss the Son" while He is in the way so that His anger doesn't make us perish (verse 12; loosely translated). God's terms are having Christ as our mediator and High Priest because He can't look upon sin ( Heb. 9:15; Habakkuk 1:13). God will thankfully bring His own people to completion and hence the new heaven and earth will have nations of righteous people serving God; both the survivors of the Tribulation and Resurrected/Raptured saints.
When examining the nations after the flood and during the failed attempt to build the tower of Babel everyone spoke one language until God Himself confused it (see Genesis 10:7-9). This was associated with the geographic breaking of the continents it would appear; or perhaps there was passage along the Alaskan peninsula when it was still covered with ice to allow Asiatic peoples to cross over. There have been people that seem to treace to Egypt as well who were mentioned a few generations ahead of Eber; and it is surmised some may have come over on ships. Genesis 10:25 states
"One was named Peleg, because in his time the earth was divided; his brother was named Joktan." (these were the sons of Eber). The general spiritual understanding of most cultures holds on to an original concept of God and stories of a worldwide flood are universal throughout the continents. These are known as the "Epic of Gilgamesh" in the Mideast; and with different characters of 8 persons in the Chinese legends; for example. Hebrew has been said to be traced perhaps to the original language; I find it interesting that some of the characters appear to be pictures and some are letters. The eastern languages tended to have pictorial representations; but there are many complex variations in the Americas among a plethora of different Indian nations. Stories also are universal describing races of giants; which match up with the many giants before and after the flood in scripture ( Gen. 6:4); see also Numbers 13:33 And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim).
Proverbs 23:10 states "Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless". Another word for landmark is "boundary stones." Deuteronomy 32:8 states: "When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel."
, "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;/ And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea." (1 Co.10:1-3) Baptized into Moses makes sense that He was a stand-in for the Son but as a servant.(Nu.12::7). Jesus is the only Way.
What we are in this post assaying to do is to present a total picture. "In the cloud and the sea for the doctrinal truth of baptismIt is the life of Jesus we cling to. Hypocrites settle for Jesus talk. As baptism of water it is a sacrament to be performed once as has been demonstrated by these nominal Christians every where. If we have died to sin and the world whence comes nationalism of the baser sort that even scoundrels shrink from, and hunger for praises from men?
Moses merely served God as faithful in all his house. But He would not let him step where the position could only be filled by his Son. This is what Jesus referring to as the baptism of fire.
"Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.' (Ex.32:32) In the passage God did not take the offer however well meaning it was. In the divine Will the day was decreed for the Son and it had to end in a conflagration into which all the artefacts,- cultural and social, of the ungodly would be consigned to fire. This would only after his Son had perfected the will of his Father. As the Son he was referring to his coming passion and the division that would follow. The manner Seth stepped into the breach made by Cain the wicked one, he knew what his Advent would entail. St Peter refers to the purging by fire. (2 Pe.3:7,10)
Ro.15:1-7
" For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me./ For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,"
The Holy Spirit in organizing the God document gives us spiritual truths from the standpoint of God a Spirit and from the 'only begotten' Son. Fellowship of God is with Man and the latter is no ordinary man but the Word which was in the beginning with God. As John would refer to it," which is in the bosom of the Father"(1:18) we shall come to it anon.
The Spirit sets before us Truth in terms of the Father and from that of the Son. It is this Logos aspect whereby whosoever believes in the Son shall have the Father as well. Whoever has seen the Son has seen the Father as well.( John 14:9). "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son./ Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father."(1 John2:22-23)
Note that the above mentioned quote,-John14:9, it was Jesus of Nazareth who declared it, ie in his humanity. John in his Gospel introduces The Word which is the Law, is Sovereign so we see him as "the Man is the Message". As the Son was in the beginning with God every one of us having received Jesus Christ as our personal Savior was with him from the beginning: Jesus Christ the same yesterday , today and forever.(He.13:8)
It is thus we need study our position. This is graphically set before us in the inaugural vision of Jesus Christ. We are presented with the composite picture of Jesus Christ and the Ancient of days. There is nothing to indicate nail marks of crucifixion other than this:"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore." No more he dies and having perfected with one sacrifice the Word is now in its judgement aspect. "and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword." (Re.1:16-18) The Spirit is annotating the truth: The Word, the Father and the Son are one. "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:"(Is.55:11a) This word points to what ' things which shall be hereafter.' This is what we find in Re.19:13-15
Man is incapable of knowing how Holy and Just God is and we're also incapable of knowing how evil man is apart from the restrainer.
We see a picture of the evil of man in Revelation when the nations take up war against the Lord.
Also look at the evil condition of their heart here in Revelation 16:9-11 while being tormented.
Also see Psalms 2:1-12.
Romans 11:33 states. "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
God gives life and he can take it!
The trouble with atheist is that they don't believe God gave life!
They have no understanding of deity.
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me. Deuteronomy 32:39.
God gives and he takes away.
God bless.
Can't you just picture it in your mind? How beautiful it will be the new earth pure untouched by sin, we will have a joy and peace we have never known. There is much given to us in these verses.
God bless,
RLW
It is said by Catholics that marriage is a sacrament that is only necessitated by the vow a man makes with a woman; and I agree with that view despite disagreeing with many other things in their belief system. The idea of a minister to oversee the event from what I can tell helps to involve two or three witnesses (usually along with parents) such as 2 Corinthians 13:1 states. There are other verses as well; none directly discuss a marriage or any other vow; but it does apply in the fact that should one or more parties violate the covenant church discipline can be used against them. I am not sure how things are in the big picture but it seems whenever marriages do occur it is often in another church that the family prefers and many times there is little sense of a whole congregation being involved at least like they used to in the past. Maybe I am off somewhat but that's how I see it.
Good counsel is helpful in that respect however; if anything to keep a healthy balance of older women guiding the youth and allowing for good interactions and support. This is something more favorable it seems today in the Reformed churches from my experiences. Such interactions of a church being a family of course should extend to foreign missionaries that are affiliated with a denomination. It is a shame when we think of missionaries being "out there" and we detach ourselves emotionally when we give financial support. Their marriages and family are components of their witness as much as their evangelism and one can't be separated from the other; although of course some are single individuals on the mission field.
Again; it is sad to say that from my viewpoint there is a tolerance for remarriage in these same sort of congregations (although many won't perform them). I would say that existing marriages have greater chance of longevity and less for divorce in the Reformed circles than others who have 50 percent divorce rates as all of society if they marry at all.
I was in a very odd situation with a former OPC church I attended where I was granted a sort of "partial" membership without ascribing to their stance on infant baptism. There are a couple other issues which would keep me out of a similar place in the future (that church shut down 6 or 7 years ago due to lack of attendance). I will say that it wasn't required that I believed in their stance on Postmillenialism; although I may have mentioned here in the past when it was brought up how foolish it was to believe in the Antichrist and Mark of the Beast in one of their sermons and I took them up on that they sort of backed down. It wasn't a requirement to adhere to their eschatology, although it was a rather cliquish sort of mentality at that place. I agreed to disagree with them without such banter so I thought it only fair; however of course it was their belief.
In any case; infant baptism has cast a rather nebulous picture in my mind as to explanations; somehow holding what children or infants were commemorated with when they become adults and rebel as if they had some sort of inherent partaking of a covenant; I suppose equivalent to the Israelites who were "baptized" by crossing the Red Sea. ( 1 Cor. 10:2). No one I know actually thinks someone is saved through infant baptism but nonetheless they seem in my mind to have carried on a Catholic tradition through the Reformers in the past. I also had a "rebaptism"; having argued beforehand the sprinkling of water should also be legitimate ( Ezekiel 36:25). In my case I had it done that way along with my wife at the time because she had a balance issue going totally underwater; but I rededicated myself to a commitment as a church member when I had an immersion at the founding of a church I used to attend at its inception almost 10 years ago. Seeing how quickly Philip baptized the eunuch in Acts 8; and the jailor with his family ( Acts 16:33) it should follow salvation quickly.
I don't wish to take part in this conversation, but one thing comes into my mind.
There are scriptures in the Bible that show Jesus as a human being. We all know those scriptures and you have mentioned many so far. But on the other hand there are scriptures that show Jesus as a God. Some brothers and sisters have pointed them out to you. If one deletes either side gets into wrong conclusions. If one considers only those who show Him as a man then they will conclude that Jesus is only a man. If one selects only those who show Him as a God, then they will wrongly conclude that He is only God. You have to take both into account to get the right picture of Jesus. GBU
The '1260 days' is a tag supplied the Spirit to indicate the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ. By the same token the Gentiles are allowed to operate for 42 months. The 42 months' similarly is a tag. In an earlier post we saw 'the hour" during which the power of darkness prevailing over the children of disobedience. ( Luke 22:53). The beast as well as the enemies to Jesus who took him in the night belonged to the son of perdition. Judas Iscariot belonged to this group. This conflict reveals two laws, of the Spirit and of the sin.
Let us look at the characteristics of the two witnesses. They are representatives of several prophets coming under the earthly ministry of Jesus who is the fulfillment of the law. They were "clothed in sackcloth'. It echoes the mourning of Daniel for three weeks,"(Dan.10:2-3)
"And have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will." This recalls to us the seven plagues of Egypt" and of Elijah, "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy." In short these two witnesses present a composite picture of heroes of faith(He.11:33-38)
On the flip side the number 42 months gives the beast who is a composite figure. John the Baptist was beheaded under a Herod and we have the beast in the Acts of the Apostles, "Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church./And he killed James the brother of John with the sword./And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also."(Ac.12:1-3)
Finally " Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein." This temple is not anything extant but what was founded on Zion. (1s.28:16) We see its culmination in Re.21.22-23
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it./... for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof."
Jeremiah 15:16 says: Your words were found, and I ate them, and your words became to me a joy and the delight of my heart, for I am called by your name, O Lord, God of hosts.
I have in a previous post discussed various methods of daily devotionals. There is pure scripture reading (for instance with a read the Bible in a year app); or "Daily Bread" or deeper things such as Oswald Chambers which I personally recommended for its depth and conviction level. When confined by a busy daily routine of work and personal responsibilities this approach of an allotted 15 minutes or so doesn't give us enough time for an exhaustive concordance analysis; or study of cross references; or examining the original Greek; Aramaic; or Hebrew; etc.
My ADHD type of mind (at least that is what I was diagnosed as about 30 years ago) tends to wander; thus making set times and planned studies more laborious than others (not overlooking my own sin and distractions). It certainly is important that we don't confine our meditation on the Word just to that allotted devotional session. I have found for myself that reading big chunks of material then later digesting it sometimes can have some benefits. First of all; once we have familiarized ourselves with scripture in general; certain passages tend to trigger once again things we have taken in that are proven; tried and true and we can relate to as aiding in our personal struggles and growth. I tend to do things backwards; in other words read a bunch of details then later see the big picture; much as I tend to start a drawing from a small spot then later on come up with a much better artist sketch than if I deliberately premeditated that I would draw a specific subject.
In open air preaching; it does help to have verses in our minds even if we have tracts as usually a formal sermon isn't the best approach in that arena with people coming and going. Having an attitude of worship and praise (part 2
I was also starting to comment on my confusion about heaven and hell experiences. There was a supposed resurrection of an African pastor I heard about yesterday from Nov. 2001 which seemed iron clad with a picture of the mortuary statement with time of death; relateive testifying; etc. In any case this guy seems to have disappeared off the radar since 2002 when someone was supposed to have interviewed him. There are a few people like Bill Weise who at least has much scripture that is discussed corroborating with his story. When people are clinically dead the question is how long does it take for the soul to actually enter eternity? As for me; people sometimes express annoyance when anyone says the Lord has shown them something; but such things as the mark of the Beast were clearly shown to the point that the terror is so great that it used to leave me with a feeling of vertigo; beyond what I can handle. I have felt a clear calling to preach on that matter since my conversion in 1982. Spiritual discernment is my gifting as you probably are aware; but I am still mystified by the way He works. I know that obedience and disciplines help us in strength; but the times when there seems to be a particular anointing still seem unpredictable. I can think of 3 individuals in my life who have a gift of discernment out of probably hundreds I have known.
It seems God has until now closed the door for me to move out. I strongly feel that I need to continue communicating with my old roommate
Normally; of course there is some crossover; I believe the Lord often uses someone who is very open and instills the spiritual gift.
The danger here is that when we sense evil we are overwhelmed quite often; I assume it isn't the presence of God around someone that causes too much of your distress. That can be overwhelming though as well.
First off; if someone is truly being driven by a demon you need to be able to stand on the authority of the Lord; and become wise as to when to say something and when to remain silent and in a prayer mode. The Lord likely will make that clear to you if for instance; someone starts manifesting then you need to take charge and perhaps do a deliverance. That involves several things; such as getting a person to want to repent of strongholds that are giving a demon legal authority to torment them.
There are some out there openly worshipping the Devil; and others who are influenced that way who want nothing to do with God. God of course gives us a spirit of boldness; not fear. It is helpful to understand common sins that bind people and also be cautious that you yourself aren't tempted. The enemy will give you many doubts but if you are called for deliverance ministry others will be there to guide you in what to do.
What is another factor here is sensing these things in the congregation; again when there are problems often sin has entered the camp so to speak. What we don't know right away are the physiological and other issues that give us a more complete picture of what's going on until we get to know somebody better. I find it helpful when I sense the Lord strongly around someone to find out why; and hopefully learn something from them. I pray you can balance your gifts with others.
My previous posting mentioned covenants as a major facet in explaining the reactions of God toward His own children as a focus but having repercussions for the whole earth. God has established this world itself for eternal purposes; and He will have a new heaven and earth to eventually rectify the sin issue once and for all. Death; of course entered the picture and marred everything on earth and even apparently in the heavens as even the stars aren't pure in His sight ( Job 25:5).
The first "marriage" may not seem as such without any formal ceremony but nonetheless God designed it with Eve being taken out of man to be a permanent covenant. They would of course have lived forever without sin (likely without the tree of life) but nonetheless they would have ensured it by eating from that tree. But they were entranced with another; that of the knowledge of good and evil. Of course that name basically is something Satan implied it represented; God had just said not to eat the tree in the midst of the garden without going into further detail. My point here is that this covenant between man and woman to be repeated up to this day was originally designed to be for life and like all other covenants we can violate it or apparently "break" it but on God's end it remains binding. This goes to any scriptural vows where God's name is invoked as well (although that can be permanent). Since man sinned death now is the only permissible way this lifetime commitment can be broken the way I see it.
I have discussed before the situation with the Gibeonites who tricked Israel to make a covenant with them and it was therefore binding as to the terms agreed on. These terms exist with property covenants as well; and also to the Promised Land as promised to the Patriarchs to this day (again some would argue with that). This gives God's hot wrath an explanation to this day for enemy invaders.
Today; one of the Deacons in our church gave a thought provoking sermon which was boiled down to looking up to the Lord; and not sugar coating where things in the world were headed going into 2024.
There are general parameters that would steer a Christian toward one side of the two political parties. If any of us possess the slightest wisdom (whether worldly or above) it becomes clear to us that promises that are made and the media spin should never be taken without the preverbial "grain of salt". We also need to hold politicians accountable. It is very unclear to me why Americans aren't protesting what is becoming clearly a plan for our country to be invaded and overrun. We have become accustomed to letting government handle all of our problems whether it is financial; "birth control"; or so called national security. The big picture for everyone in a fallen world is that there are many chameleons out there; people either find a new way to do the same old sin; or they find a new sin to embed themselves with. This is clear from the abortion issue; now it is "safe and easy" according to how it is spun to terminate a human life with a pill these days which is where the majority of abortions are done today. One could; perhaps seem the same logic with the beheadings during the Tribulation; it is a quick and compared to other techniques more painless method of mass killings than other means which I suppose martyrs will be grateful for.
In general; we should continue as long as we are able to work out the command of the Great Commission until the government forceably stops us en masse through whatever means necessary; or the mobs in the streets decide to execute vengeance themselves on who they will with impunity (which sadly we are clearly approaching with current events).
IF the Lord tarries the best we can hope for with a regime change is many months; probably at least a couple years of great sacrifice.
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We can find verses, that when isolated, can seem to teach that OUR WORKS of Believing and Repentance are contributory TOWARDS our salvation. But in coming to an understanding of any doctrine in the Bible we must harmonize every verse in Scripture that relates to the question.
When we do this, we must conclude that our GOOD WORKS of any sort are the RESULT of God's gift of salvation which He bestows on each and every one of His elect, not BECAUSE we do these things but as the EVIDENCE and CHARACTER of a New Creation in Christ as we read in the Galatians and Romans passages I quoted earlier and many others.
The passage that, in my view, speaks most clearly regarding the Nature of Salvation is Ezekiel 36:24-34. Note here that every action is God's action, not man's action. And that our Repentance and Belief are the RESULT of God's actions in salvation, never the CAUSE nor the REASON.
I want to be a million miles away from any Gospel that even hints that our works contribute in any way to our Salvation.
By Grace are you saved through faith(Christ's faith not our faith). And that not of ourselves. It is the gift of God in His in comprehensible Mercy. Not of our works lest any man should boast. (forgive me for not quoting chapter and verse for these last statements, but I'm sure you are familiar).
I never want to be that man in Numbers who picked up a few sticks on the Sabbath and was executed for that seemingly incidental sin. A dramatic picture of what happens if we look to any good work that we do or have done to affect our salvation.
Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?
As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?
God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV
You: Word was "NOT" God?
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV
Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?
Isaiah 7:14 -
Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Matthew 1:23-25
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Isaiah 7:14
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 43:11
The Apostle Peter wrote this letter to Christians, mainly of Jewish birth, who were scattered to other nations (mainly resulting from the great persecutions from the Jewish leaders/Saul: Acts 8:1). Peter calls them the Elect of God, i.e. those whom God has chosen to be His. And what criterion did God use to make this selection? The Word tells us that they, and us who believe, are chosen by Him because He knew beforehand (foreknowledge) all those who would hear the Gospel of Salvation through Christ & would respond in faith.
So yes, God has chosen each one of us who believes - He didn't force us to believe just so that we wouldn't nullify His wise choosing by Him making a mistake; but He knew who would respond & to these were granted the gift & privilege of being adopted into His family (see Ephesians 1:3-14 for a greater picture of this mighty Work of God on our behalf). Does this then mean that we don't need to share the Gospel with those trapped & lost in sin because God will save them anyway if they are called to be His elect? No, we must share the Gospel with all, because not only are we not privy to those who would be saved, but God has chosen to save some because when they hear the Gospel, they will believe by the convicting power of His Spirit, & they will call upon the Name of Jesus to save them from the awful penalty of sin & estrangement from a loving God.
"Unto you therefore which believe he is precious..." ( 1 Peter 2:7). If we truly belong to the LORD, Jesus is the most Precious One in our lives, for He has chosen us to be saved with so great & costly a salvation. Unbelievers might stomp on Jesus, curse & ridicule Him - but to us He is precious and our delight, & we can be ever thankful for being chosen to be His.
Ultimately, this is blasphemous to the teachings of God's Word. God's forgiveness of our sin is eternal. But, there are consequences to the commission of willful sin in the belief beforehand that God will make it all right- presumptive in believing by doing so God has granted permission.
Paul was very adamant that pastors and teachers are held to an even greater standard.
Would a church or body of believers be led by such a person? It seems the body of elders would be remiss if they allowed such a person to lead worship or serve in any capacity of leadership.
I believe God has the power to forgive even the most vile of sinners, and unlike us the power also to forget. But to repair such a rift with God is on the shoulders of the sinner in genuinely seeking forgiveness instead of assuming it!
If we viewed the sins and transgressions of any one of us as torn pieces of a picture, God has the power to tape us back together. The damaged image would again be whole, but the seams created by our memories have to remain as lessons to us; thus consequences.
It seems to me evident that the person standing before God should be disqualified to lead others because that is not in accordance with the Scriptures.
Firstly, on the name 'Gehenna', otherwise called the "Valley of Hinnom", the Encyclopaedia definition is quite correct about the purpose why that area was set aside. It was indeed a place for the burning of refuse & the dead. And yes, it meant that they were all annihilated - no more evidence except dust & ashes. So, it can mean 'annihilation', but Gehenna can also mean 'a place of burning where the fires are never quenched'. And we know that the body is disposed of there, but what about the immaterial parts of man that remains accountable to God? And you also referenced a verse I quoted in Matthew 10:28. Taken on its own, that verse could well support your belief of a complete extermination of body, soul & spirit.
But it was for that very reason that I gave you the other verses to look up & consider. Not only was Matthew 10:28 Jesus' Words, but also Matthew 5:22,29,30; Matthew 23:33; Mark 9:43; Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:10,11-15. You didn't take these into account. And we know, as I trust you are conversant, that when we deal with a topic or a doctrine from the Bible, we need to take in all the references that deal specifically with it. Unfortunately, our natural human instinct is to accept only those that we find palatable or in agreement with, thus distorting the teaching from the Word.
So, if you would care to look at those other verses & see how they affect your understanding of Matthew 10:28, I would be very interested. It's only when we consider all verses on a subject, can we get a fuller picture of it meaning & its implications. However, sometimes there aren't too many verses to help us learn about the subject - in such cases we can't force a teaching by them & just leave the subject open. Yet, not so with these important doctrines of the Deity of Christ & human existence & punishment after death.
The Bottles of heaven "clouds": it is an allusion to the girbahs, In the Hebrew its nay'-bel its a skin bag for liquids or bottles made of skin, in which they are accustomed to carry their water
God is asking Job does he know how God controls the weather!
It has nothing to do with you and I being a old bag of wine and it doesn't have anything that suggests one day we will be Gods.
I'm telling you this because that is what Jordyn is presenting to you.
Be careful! He has a way of spiritualizing the scripture and making it say what he wants it to say.
We know him well, He's been on this site for many years under several different names presenting this false doctrine.
The clouds in Hebrews is "nephos" it's used to picture a large dense multitude.
The clouds used in Job is "shachaq"
a powder (as beaten small); by analogy a thin vapor; by extension the firmament: - {cloud} small {dust} {heaven} sky. (Strongs definition in the Hebrew.)
The usage has no parallel.
Read Job 38:1-41 and get the context.
Now concerning the wine skins in Matthew 9:14-17.
verse 14 Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?
John was the Last of the old testament prophets.
He came to announce the coming of the King.
Christ came to usher in something New.
Verse 16 and 17 Christ explains the change of dispensations.
The old dispensation of law was ending and Christ didn't come to patch it up, He came to present a new garment.
We being the body of Christ and Christ being the Head represents we being baptized into union with Christ and him being Lord over his body. He's the head and Lord over our lives by the quickening Spirit that rose Christ from the dead.
Romans 8:8-14.
God bless you.
Brothers in Christ
We know that GOD CURSED the Earth because disobedience of man,and warned him,saying:"Thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to thee;...in sorrow shall you eat of it all the days of thy life;In the sweat of thy face shall you eat bread,till you return unto the ground;out of it wast you taken:for dust you art,and unto dust shall you return.
As above described,the terrible picture after GOD cursed the Earth, what our GOD meant by His words or even revealed when He said of the existence of the world of Devil full of"Thorns and thistles"? Well,with the proliferation of human beings after Earth had been CURSED by Him,nations would emerge or be formed on Earth,and would be like"thorns and thistles".GOD said: Numbers 33:52-55
55If ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you;then it shall come to pass,that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes,and thorns in your sides,and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.
52Ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures,and all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:
53And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land,and dwell therein:for I have given you the land to possess it.
Joshua 23:11-16
11Take good heed therefore unto yourselves,that ye love the Lord your GOD.
13Know that the Lord GOD will no more drive out any of these nations from before you;but they shall be snares and traps unto you,and scourges in your sides,and THORNS in your eyes,until ye perish from off this good land which the Lord your GOD hath given you.
Rev.11:15&12:12
15The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our Lord,and of His Christ;He shall reign for ever and ever.
12Therefore rejoice,ye heavens,and ye that dwell in them.Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!for the Devil is come down unto you,having great wrath,because he knows that he has but a short time.
Just a few things, I am sorry you feel you have been lied to, there are different interpretations out there. If we study Matt. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 together it helps.
I have found when studying the Bible, we should not start with a preconceived idea, it is easy to see Scriptures that fit a picture we have painted in our mind rather than letting the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit reveal the true meaning.
First, Jesus's death and resurrection were hidden from them, Luke 18:31-34. Even after he was crucified, they were distraught and did not understand the fact that he was killed. John 16:16-20 and we have Luke 24:4-6. Not knowing Jesus was going to die would they be asking Jesus about His second coming?
Is all of Matthew 24 about the end time, many combined it with other prophecies to create a picture of the end time. Some of it is obviously about Jesus's second coming but much of it was to prepare them for what they were to endure up to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. False prophets we see there were many before 70 AD, Acts 21:36-38 Acts 8:9 and others. If we look at history there were wars, earthquakes, and famine, Acts 7:11 and Acts 11:28.
Many put Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14 at the end time with an antichrist, should we not consider what Luke wrote about the same thing, Luke 21:20 that history has recorded?
One other thing why would Jesus say to pray their flee would not be on a Sabbath day? Today would not be a problem with the transportation we have. Back then the gates of Jerusalem would be locked and would be hard to get out and it would take days to get clear, with a pace of 2.5 mph.
I am with you, we sleep in the grave until resurrection the first of those who are chosen and faithful, Rev. 17:14 at Jesus's second coming and the second, the rest of the dead at the white throne judgment/the sheep and the goats and those whose names are not in the book of life is cast into the lake of fire, Rev. 20:15.
God bless,
RLW
INVISIBLE; NO IMAGE; NO IMAGINATION OF MAN
Acts 17:29
states:
Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.
God has many warnings in scripture regarding not making idols of created beings or heavenly objects such as the moon and stars. This verse shows how God cannot be reduced to a man made concept or picture."
Would you not then agree that the concept of the trinity falls under such category as an "IMAGE and IMAGINATION OF MAN"?
If the concept is not taught anywhere in the Bible, that succinctly defines it as a creation/imagination of man.
The concept of God being three persons is an IDOL, it is an IMAGE created by the IMAGINATION OF MAN.
This IDOL has been sold to the masses, it has been delivered to hundreds of millions, if not billions, who accept and embrace it without question or personal investigation into its Scriptural authenticity.
It is a lie of man.
Acts 17:29 states:
Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.
God has many warnings in scripture regarding not making idols of created beings or heavenly objects such as the moon and stars. This verse shows how God cannot be reduced to a man made concept or picture.
Colossians 1:15 states: "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." This verse is discussing Christ who although He came in a man is part of the Godhead; so certainly we shouldn't have images of Him either; especially to be venerated or worshipped. As to whether; say a stained glass window is equally offensive we have to look to the heart of those who are attending a church service; as sadly some even with such an object as that will find some feature that seems to have some supernatural light in the image which is idolotry. The same could be said for the Apostles on such imagery; a Protestant wouldn't have any desire normally to make it an idol; but other denominations such as Greek Orthodox have statues of "saints" which clearly constitute worship that is against scripture.
John 1:18 states that no man has ever seen God but in Christ we in a sense see Him. His attributes including the Godhead are said to be clear from creation ( Romans 1:20). This was said to be known from the time of Creation according to the beginning of this verse. This shows that only later the nations departed from the knowledge that Adam and his immediate descendants would have instilled in them; there was deliberate rebellion against the Creator throughout the earth; both after the garden and after the flood with the tower of Babel and then God confusing the languages and scattering men throughout the earth (see Genesis 10:25 on likely splitting off of continents and dispersion of men).
National soverignty vs one world government
In my last post; I explained briefly how there is a divide between Eastern and Western nations and their alliances. As to an opinion on the matter; it is easy to be myopic and insist that our country can do no wrong or the opposite as seems politically expedient today; we excoriate all those who until recent years were heralded as honorable forefathers of our nation. This same mindset can skew the big picture; those of the old school think of Russia today as communist when it is in reality a nationalist mindset and has supported the church by and large. In all due respect it is heavily skewed toward the Eastern or Russian Orthodox; and very recently has started showing blowback and persecution to those in the church that do not support the political agenda.
Those we consider "enemies" used to be friends; case in point Russia who was our ally during World War Two (albeit we basically gave them much of Eastern Europe at the end of the war when allowing them to be the first to invade German territory). Japan has gone from being part of the "Axis of Evil" to our best ally in the last 50 years or so. Afghanistan was our ally as well; and we even supported Bin Laden (I believe he was on Newsweek as man of the year or something to that affect; much like Hitler was in the 1930's. Many of us are naive as to history; so of course it repeats itself (or as Ecclesiastes 1:9 says there is nothing new under the sun). Of course there are allies (take India for example) where persecution of Christians is some of the worst in the world; in this case by Hindus; not the Muslims who also are persecuting believers with our allies such as Saudi Arabia; Turkey and many other nations.
In these issues; we need to be careful to honor covenant agreements in the past with sovereign nations and their boundaries. The desire to eliminate ancient boundaries is dangerous ( Prov. 22:28)
Concluding this first topic on God's attributes related to anger we also see the imprecatory Psalms; that is those Bible scriptures that plead with God for judgment to occur on our enemies. These verses sometimes are general in nature which David would say in his long struggle with Saul and those perusing Him. David is a good example for us of forgiveness in that regard; as Saul was cornered multiple times and because he was still recognized as the anointed king David didn't take the opportunity to slay him. Even at his death he mourned for him as we see in 2 Samuel 1. There was no PERSONAL vendetta here; much as there isn't with Christ who will rule and reign with justice ( Isaiah 11:3-4) but with righteousness; in other words He will work with God's direction and not let external circumstances skew the picture.
When studying God's anger our first reaction is to understand his attitude toward gross external manifestations of sin; which surely is the state of the world today more than ever. As I said in the last post He chastises all those he loves ( Heb. 12:6). God allowed collateral damage both with David's sin with Bathsheeba ( 2 Samuel 11:3-4) and with the census ( 2 Samuel 24:12). We find it illogical why many innocent had to die in such instances but David brought wars upon himself and others and many died in the second census incident with its after affects. Therefore it is following God's precepts as to HOW to worship and heeding His warnings against sin that are crucial. Saul began his fall by trying to offer a sacrifice himself in an unauthorized procedure as a king. ( 1 Samuel 13:8-14). David didn't trust God's strength when he took the census. This was much the reason Solomon fell as well; he hoarded gold and silver and foreign women as wives all which God warned about. (see 1 Kings 1:11; Deut. 17:17). Those who He loves go through the refining fire; let us pass the test so we can rejoice at the Bema Seat (2 Cor510
God is angry with the nations as well as individuals. Revelation 11:18 begins a discussion of God's wrath and it is accomplished when the winepress is trod alone by Christ ( Isaiah 63:3) which mirrors Armageddon as described in Revelation 19; but also the campaign of the Exekiel 38 war and the nations God destroys in the process.
In such a topic; of course we see other attributes of God balancing things such as wrath and anger with patience and longsuffering of the Lord; for instance. In all this discussion it is important to see how a balanced picture of our Lord brings a better focus as to who He is. We can't just focus on anger or there is no hope for His love; but the same holds true for those who only want to hear "encouraging" verses in scripture. As famously stated we either have all of Christ or we have in reality none of Him. We must take the whole counsel of the Word of God rather than cherry picking what we want as context gets thrown out the window at best with that mindset; and at worst whole doctrinal truths are cast aside. Such is the action of such deists as Benjamin Franklin apparently. The flesh really doesn't even comprehend God's love; for human love and its vicissitudes clearly can't be trusted ( Jeremiah 17:9) as our heart is desperately wicked and who can know it? God judges impartially and is not a "respecter of persons" ( Romans 2:11-16; Acts 10:34). He is entirely righteous and no one can argue with Him once judgment comes. As Psalm 2 states we should "kiss the Son" while He is in the way so that His anger doesn't make us perish (verse 12; loosely translated). God's terms are having Christ as our mediator and High Priest because He can't look upon sin ( Heb. 9:15; Habakkuk 1:13). God will thankfully bring His own people to completion and hence the new heaven and earth will have nations of righteous people serving God; both the survivors of the Tribulation and Resurrected/Raptured saints.
When examining the nations after the flood and during the failed attempt to build the tower of Babel everyone spoke one language until God Himself confused it (see Genesis 10:7-9). This was associated with the geographic breaking of the continents it would appear; or perhaps there was passage along the Alaskan peninsula when it was still covered with ice to allow Asiatic peoples to cross over. There have been people that seem to treace to Egypt as well who were mentioned a few generations ahead of Eber; and it is surmised some may have come over on ships. Genesis 10:25 states
"One was named Peleg, because in his time the earth was divided; his brother was named Joktan." (these were the sons of Eber). The general spiritual understanding of most cultures holds on to an original concept of God and stories of a worldwide flood are universal throughout the continents. These are known as the "Epic of Gilgamesh" in the Mideast; and with different characters of 8 persons in the Chinese legends; for example. Hebrew has been said to be traced perhaps to the original language; I find it interesting that some of the characters appear to be pictures and some are letters. The eastern languages tended to have pictorial representations; but there are many complex variations in the Americas among a plethora of different Indian nations. Stories also are universal describing races of giants; which match up with the many giants before and after the flood in scripture ( Gen. 6:4); see also Numbers 13:33 And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim).
Proverbs 23:10 states "Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless". Another word for landmark is "boundary stones." Deuteronomy 32:8 states: "When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel."
, "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;/ And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea." (1 Co.10:1-3) Baptized into Moses makes sense that He was a stand-in for the Son but as a servant.(Nu.12::7). Jesus is the only Way.
What we are in this post assaying to do is to present a total picture. "In the cloud and the sea for the doctrinal truth of baptismIt is the life of Jesus we cling to. Hypocrites settle for Jesus talk. As baptism of water it is a sacrament to be performed once as has been demonstrated by these nominal Christians every where. If we have died to sin and the world whence comes nationalism of the baser sort that even scoundrels shrink from, and hunger for praises from men?
Moses merely served God as faithful in all his house. But He would not let him step where the position could only be filled by his Son. This is what Jesus referring to as the baptism of fire.
"Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.' (Ex.32:32) In the passage God did not take the offer however well meaning it was. In the divine Will the day was decreed for the Son and it had to end in a conflagration into which all the artefacts,- cultural and social, of the ungodly would be consigned to fire. This would only after his Son had perfected the will of his Father. As the Son he was referring to his coming passion and the division that would follow. The manner Seth stepped into the breach made by Cain the wicked one, he knew what his Advent would entail. St Peter refers to the purging by fire. (2 Pe.3:7,10)
Ro.15:1-7
" For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me./ For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,"
The Word (2 of 2)
The Holy Spirit in organizing the God document gives us spiritual truths from the standpoint of God a Spirit and from the 'only begotten' Son. Fellowship of God is with Man and the latter is no ordinary man but the Word which was in the beginning with God. As John would refer to it," which is in the bosom of the Father"(1:18) we shall come to it anon.
The Spirit sets before us Truth in terms of the Father and from that of the Son. It is this Logos aspect whereby whosoever believes in the Son shall have the Father as well. Whoever has seen the Son has seen the Father as well.( John 14:9). "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son./ Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father."(1 John2:22-23)
Note that the above mentioned quote,-John14:9, it was Jesus of Nazareth who declared it, ie in his humanity. John in his Gospel introduces The Word which is the Law, is Sovereign so we see him as "the Man is the Message". As the Son was in the beginning with God every one of us having received Jesus Christ as our personal Savior was with him from the beginning: Jesus Christ the same yesterday , today and forever.(He.13:8)
It is thus we need study our position. This is graphically set before us in the inaugural vision of Jesus Christ. We are presented with the composite picture of Jesus Christ and the Ancient of days. There is nothing to indicate nail marks of crucifixion other than this:"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore." No more he dies and having perfected with one sacrifice the Word is now in its judgement aspect. "and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword." (Re.1:16-18) The Spirit is annotating the truth: The Word, the Father and the Son are one. "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:"(Is.55:11a) This word points to what ' things which shall be hereafter.' This is what we find in Re.19:13-15
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