Discuss Romans 5

  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 week ago
    Hi Tdianne.

    We are dealing with two things here when concerning dinosaurs.

    1) When were they created.

    2) When did they die.

    By the scriptures we know that the Lord created everything that was created. John 1:3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Also, by the scriptures we know that death came into the world by Adam's sin.

    Romans 5:12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    By Scriptures we know that that extends to all creation, even the very ground we walk on! Genesis 3:17. and

    Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

    The whole world groans and is waiting on a redemption, meaning restored to its formal intentions.

    So, this may atleast help us with the "when" the dinosaurs could have died.

    certainly not before Adam and Eve because death had not entered the world yet. (Possibly the flood)

    Some hold the view of a gap theory between verses 1 and 2 in Genesis 1:1-2. as a possibility when dinosaurs may have been created.

    Would you like for me to get into that?

    God bless
  • Ronald Whittemore - 3 weeks ago
    The most important thing, Jesus, the Son of God.

    Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost, Matthew 1:20 of the seed of a woman/Mary, Genesis 3:15, and born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God, John 1:13. Jesus grew up the same way that we do, Luke 2:40.

    He was subject to the pulls of the flesh. He was tempted and influenced by Satan, Luke 4:1-2. He had a will and human desires, Luke 22:41-42. Although Jesus was filled without measure with the power of the Holy Ghost, and gave all things into his hand, John 3:34-35 Jesus humbled Himself and was obedient unto death, Philippians 2:5-11.

    To be the payment for sins of man and to be the Savior of mankind and destroy the works of the devil, Jesus had to be a human, Hebrews 2:14-18, the promise God made was to Abraham and his seed, that was Jesus the Messiah/Christ, Galatians 3:16.

    Jesus the last Adam came into this world sinless as the first Adam and had to be laden with what we are as humans. The man Jesus, Romans 5:15, had to endure and overcome sin and rise above the influences of Satan to become the payment for the sins and this atonement made way for our deliverance from Satan's bondage, Romans 3:21-26.

    He also was prepared to be a merciful and faithful High Priest, Hebrews 4:14-16. God sent His own Son to condemn sin in the flesh that the law could not do that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled, Romans 8:3-4.

    Jesus the Son of God a human being had to deal with life as we do. He lived in the same time, space, and constraints as we do. He was born under the law, He became tired, He became hungry, He was subject to persecution, subject to pain, subject to the Roman rulers, He had to deal with all the things the same way we do, and all was the for the will of the Father, not His, Matthew 26:42.

    Only in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth do we have hope, and are saved, Acts 4:12.

    We are to hold fast in our faith to the end.

    God bless,

  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 3 weeks ago

    Hey brother just one last thing to consider.

    Daniel 9:24-27, in this prophecy, there are seventy weeks or 490 years determined unto Daniel's people and the holy city to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    Have these 6 things been fulfilled in Jesus the Messiah, and the judgment of it carried out in 70 AD? If so, all of this prophecy has been fulfilled in the past.

    1 To finish the transgression. To break or violate, as a law, civil or moral; the act of transgressing. Psalms 32:1 Isaiah 53:5-11 Romans 4:14-15 Galatians 3:18-19 Hebrews 9:14-15.

    2 To make an end to sins. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Matthew 1:21 Hebrews 10:8-11 John 1:29 1 Corinthians 15:3 1 John 3:5 Psalm 32:1 Romans 3:21-26 Romans 8:3.

    3 To make reconciliation for iniquity. Reconciliation is an element of salvation that refers to the results of the atonement. Colossians 1:20-22 Isaiah 53:6 Isaiah 53:11 Romans 5:11 Ephesians 2:16 Titus 2:14 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

    4 To bring in everlasting righteousness. In conformity to the demands of the covenant and according to God's will. Isaiah 61:10-11 Romans 3:21-26 Romans 5:17-21 2 Corinthians 5:21 1 Peter 2:24.

    5 To seal up the vision and prophecy. The greatest prediction, which runs like a golden thread through the whole contents of the Old Testament, is that regarding the coming and work of the Messiah, Jesus. Daniel 9:23 Matthew 11:11-15 Mark 1:14-15 John 5:36-40 John 6:27 Acts 3:18.

    6 To anoint the most holy. The high priest went into the holy of holies once a year with the blood of a sacrificed bull. Jesus our high priest with His own blood anointed the most holy not made with hands once and for all, forever. Hebrews 9:6-14.

    Jesus said it in John 19:28-30.

    God bless,

  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 month ago
    Hi Bryanna.

    It seems you are struggling with the fruit of salvation.

    This is an area we all struggle with to some degree.

    However if you are a born again believer and truly "TRUSTING IN THE WORK OF CHRIST AND HIS SACRIFICIAL WORK ON THE CROSS" those wages has been paid in full.

    Sin brought on death.

    That's why we are to be born Again by the working of the Holyspirit. This is more precisely "Born from above"

    Now we have Christ spirit working in us.

    John 16:8 says the Holyspirit will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.

    He will reprove it or show it to be wrong.

    No amount of preaching, pleading, or pointing of fingers will bring about the conviction of sin, unless the Holy Spirit is at work in the sinner's heart!

    So God bless you Bryanna!

    The most basic sin of which the world is guilty is unbelief.

    Once a person responds to the Spirit's conviction and turns to faith in Christ, the other sins he practiced will be taken care of. It is the sin of unbelief "a refusal to trust in Jesus is what is primary.

    Romans 6:20-22 reads,"For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

    What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed?

    for the end of those things is death.

    But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

    For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Justification, Righteousness and Sanctification.

    We have "been justified by his blood" ( Romans 5:9), and part of that justification is an imputation of His own righteousness.

    Christ righteousness has been imputed over to us.

    Romans 5:8-10. 2 Corinthians 5:21, and Romans 3:22

    sums it up as well.

    That does not mean we automatically do what is right, that will come through the process of sanctification.

    See part 2.
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 1 month ago
    Good afternoon, Adam.

    Romans 5:12 says Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    The fact is that we are all born with Adam's sin and hence at enmity with God. Our hearts are as Jeremiah 17:9 says "desperately wicked." No one does good ( Romans 3:10-12 and in Psalms); and we are estranged from the womb ( Psalm 58:3). So the first issue is the thought that anyone is "good" which inevitably comes from comparing ourselves to another "worse" person like Hitler (unless we are that bad ourselves and we can't appeal to anyone worse; in that case we probably wouldn't want to concern ourselves with doing good deeds. Our deeds also; BTW are evil; even our best deeds as "filthy rags". ( Isaiah 64:6). This "grace Gospel" as it is known is obviously taken from Romans as a primary source but reflects many scripture verses. Or as someone once said "a hundred percent sinner needs a hundred percent savior" (can't seem to find this entire phrase quoted by anyone).

    Now death; of course in the law comes in two ways; MURDER or justifiable killing whether to exact a punishment "a life for a life" (part of Deuteronomy 19:21). It also is involved with the wars and conquests of Israel with the admittedly hard verses about exterminating entire peoples including women and children in certain circumstances. The understandable aspect of this is when the descendents of the Nephilim (or angels with women producing giant hybrid offspring) were exterminated; being an aberrant being without and eternal soul perhaps the proper interpretation of Isaiah 26:14. That is a deep study; but no doubt this is easier than explaining extermination of human beings. Those nations which were conquered had common practices of child sacrifice with idol worship; therefore it could have saved the children from a worse death. Genesis 15:16 shows how God waits until iniquity is full before utter destruction.
  • Richard H Priday - 1 month ago
    Satan's machinations: The soul and the spirit realm

    Slavery in all it's ugly reality from the 1800s in particular in the USA is something most citizens in our nation haven't seen in the better part of 200 years. Sadly with the uncontrolled child slave labor and sex slavery today it may be closer to our backyard than we think. The reality of this should teach us a lesson in regard to how we in the spiritual dimension are basically OWNED and controlled by either Satan or Christ. This is how a book like Philemon could be written; it wasn't that cruelty was to be exonerated (as shown by other verses on the subject of slaves and masters) but it was that our spiritual state superceded whatever our earthly position happened to be in a particular time; culture or nation. John 8:33 shows the myopia of the Pharisees stating that they were never slaves despite the obvious biblical precedent from Egypt in particular as well as Babylon to some extent. The bigger problem; of course was being a slave to sin which means a soul is being held captive by Satan. It also means a soul is estranged and in enmity with God ( Romans 5:10). God is merciful and longsuffering; but that doesn't last forever without repentance.

    There are many ways Satan will come after our soul but they all pretty much amount to the same thing. There are myriads of other faiths besides Christianity and the true God of the Jews in the Old Testament but they all lack definite assurances of a good afterlife; or any individual that has overcome death. They can only use methods of man in reality; whether war or conquest; philosophy; wisdom; etc. We see the same tactics of cults especially in tandem with polytheistic idol worship; these include "Kundalini" experiences; "sweat lodges"; mushrooms and other psychodelic methods of having a "spiritual" experience.

    New Age no doubt uses seduction and enchantments to entice men to commit fornication; along with other "darker" spells to inflict harm.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 2 months ago

    Part 5 and last Trinity discussion,

    Do you believe that Jesus lived a sinless life?

    Scripture is clear Jesus had no sin, Hebrews 4:15 1 Peter 2:22 1 John 3:5 Romans 5:12-15.

    Do you believe that the Father and the Son are one as Jesus said in Jn. 17 or that He and the Father are "in" one another and if they see Jesus, they see the Father?

    Both, Jesus said I and my Father are one John 10:30 and in other places, one means unity. Jesus was one with the Father not because Jesus was God but because He was filled with the Spirit and God dwelt in him, John 14:10, as we see God was in Christ 2 Corinthians 5:19

    God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by His Spirit that gave Jesus the power and authority like Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered to Jesus of His Father, Jesus did not have it, all was given to Him. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49 John 14:10. This is why Jesus said if you have seen me, you have seen the Father, John 14:9.

    Jesus in His prayer asked the Father that we may be one, as He and His Father are one through the words of the disciples, John 17:20-23. God and Jesus will dwell in us and we in them, 1 John 4:13-16 1 John 3:23-24.

    How is it that Jesus AND the Father send the Holy Spirit if there is only one person as God?

    Jesus said He would pray to the Father to give another comforter, John 14:16, we see in John 14:26 the Father will send in Jesus's name. In John 15:26 Jesus said I will send but this is from the Father and the Spirit of truth that proceedeth from the Father. This is not a person it is the Spirit of God.

    Please don't take this wrong, in the Trinity there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each Person is fully God, coequal, coeternal, and consubstantial. I'm sorry my understanding, is Scripture does not support that, Scripture is clear the Father is above all.

    Thank you, GiGi, I hope this is what you wanted I am not the best at this.

    God bless,

  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 2 months ago

    Part 4 Trinity discussion.

    Do you believe that the will of the Father and the will of the Son are always the same or different?

    Jesus was obedient to the Father, Jesus said many times it is not His will but the will of the Father who sent Him, the same as we are to do, John 4:34 John 5:30 Mark 3:35.

    Do you believe that a human being can truly save all men from sin and death by a perfect life in their own will?

    First, I will have to say it was the will of the Father, Jesus at the end even asked His father if there was another way but not Jesus's will but the will of His Father, Matthew 26:39 Luke 22:42. We are told this is the foundation of our faith, Jesus' sacrificial death. God cannot die God is Spirit He has no blood to shed for sin it had to be a man, His Son, born of a woman.

    John 3:16 God gave His Son not Himself 1 John 2:22 1 John 4:3 2 John 1:7 Romans 5:8 2 Corinthians 5:21, God cannot be made sin, 1 Corinthians 15:17 Jesus died, and God raised Him from the dead, the first man to live a perfect life, the first fruits of those who sleep in death. 1 Corinthians 15:14 as said if Jesus was not a man who lived a perfect life and died and was raised from the dead all is vain.

    The first Adam was the first man Jesus was the last Adam and the second man, 1 Corinthians 15:45-47. 1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. The law had to be fulfilled by a man.

    How would a human being know that they are the Messiah from birth and thus know not to ever sin?

    As we see Luke 2:51-52 Jesus grew up increasing in wisdom and stature in favor with God and man. Jesus was twelve years old and He knew His father was God, but it doesn't say Jesus knew then He was to be the Messiah. God also said He would raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, Deuteronomy 18:15, Isaiah 11:1-5 Isaiah 61:1-2 confirmed in Luke 4:18-21. Romans 1:1-4 2 Timothy 2:8.

    See part 5
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Hebrews 6 - 3 months ago
    Hi Tdianne.

    I would like to add to what Gigi has shared.

    1 John 4:12-16.

    No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. HEREBY KNOW WE THAT WE DWELL IN HIM, AND HE IN US, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

    And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

    Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

    And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

    What John is saying is that no man has seen God at any time but if we love one another God dwells in us. In other words God today can manifest himself through believers in loving one another, "and the world sees That!

    John 13:34-35, "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

    "What makes this so unique?" What's new about it? Isn't it listed in the Commandments? What's unique and new about it is that he causes it!

    Look at verse 35.

    "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

    John 3:16

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,.

    ( God gave us his Spirit that causes us to love the Brothern.)

    God's Spirit, "The Holyspirit" causes those who loves God to love his brother also. 1 John 4:21"

    Romans 5:5.

    And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

    I hope this helps. God bless.
  • Tunney on Romans 5 - 4 months ago
    Thank you LORD for saving my soul. Thank you LORD for making me whole.

    Thank you LORD for giving to me, THY great Salvation so rich and free.

    GOD bless all on this platform!

    LORD, bless the peace in Jerusalem; Give wisdom to our leaders as the conflict grows in the Middle East. May we call on YOU and faithfully wait for YOUR righteous intervention.

    Thank You LORD!

    January 12, 2024
  • RED APPLE TREATY 4 ME ONLY on Romans 5 - 4 months ago
    Romans 5:8

    For in my hope Jesus Christ will appear to me for what I have done to recieve and be done .I will receive the love of God for me and the atonement.
  • Adam - In Reply - 5 months ago
    Dear Pnovello,

    I read your comment about being sick affecting your faith. Sorry to hear that. To me this question seems like the same as why do bad things happen to Christians? Where does this expectation come from that God is a genie to serve us and make us comfortable, instead of us serving Him? That expectation isn't from the Bible from what I've read.

    The goal of our short time of earth isn't to have perfect health and tons of money- greedy deceived people might say that but it doesn't make it true.

    Jesus is God and was tortured and murdered. Not exactly a privileged human life. The top evangelist in the Bible who wrote the most books seemed to have nonstop problems, like being beaten, shipwrecked, chased, sickness, no food, no shelter, etc. 2 Cor 11. Abraham had problems. Moses had problems. Every person you'd consider a God-follower in the Bible has had major problems, including Jesus Himself, so who are we to assume we deserve to be treated higher than them?

    Romans 5:3-5 - this says to rejoice in sufferings. Paul said he learned the secret to being content and it has nothing to do with physical things. The Bible says to store our treasures in heaven and not on earth. God bless.
  • Chris - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Page 1.

    Hi Valmar. Thanks for addressing my question & I do agree with you on the incomprehensible Work of the Spirit in giving healing, exhortation, etc. What I was looking for pertains to your subject, viz. a believer's eternal security. And also to a comment you made, "the ability to lose one's salvation rests completely with that individual".

    The way I understand the Scriptures, is that if we have the ability, or power, to lose/relinquish our salvation, then it presents questions not only to the Spirit's Work in saving a lost soul, but also the power we have to over-ride what the Spirit has done in our lives. Clearly, you believe that a saved sinner can either choose to depart Christ or to remain faithful to Him. My question then is: is it in the new spiritual make-up of the one now found 'in Christ' to ever desire to leave the One Who has delivered Him from so great a penalty & given him a new life with peace, joy & hope? Here, I'm not referring to a saved soul who through negligence or appeal of the flesh or Satan, strays & toys with the world. I'm confident if that soul is saved, then the Spirit will not let him go; and Momsage shared an apt testimony of this very work of God in her & her husband.

    So to my question, I believe the more relevant Work of the Holy Spirit in one's life is that: He Convicts man of his sin ( John 16:8-11); He Regenerates, or gives re-birth to the penitent sinner ( John 3:3-7, Titus 3:5, 2 Corinthians 5:17, 1 John 2:29); He Indwells ( 1 Corinthians 6:19, Romans 5:5, John 14:16); He Baptizes ( 1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:5); and He Seals ( 2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30). I'm sure you're conversant with these Scriptures, showing that salvation & securing is all of God, without any contribution from man. To Page 2.
  • Biblepreacher12 - In Reply - 6 months ago
    If nobody is without sin then nobody is going to heaven. Jesus told people in John 5:14 "go and sin no more." The Bible says in 1st John 3:8 "he that commith sin is of the devil..." no such verse as you sin because you are of God or Jesus. The wages of sin is hell fire and brimstone Romans 6:23. It pays to sin, it pays to serve the devil, your wage or payment is called death and not life eternal. Sinless people after the cross as Christ came to wash away sin and not make a new type of sinner called Christian sinners.

    The apostle Paul just like me is an ex-sinner saved by grace Romans 6:18. If nobody can be free from sin, Jesus died for nothing. The Bible makes it clear God does not hear the prayers uttered by sinners John 9:31.

    Romans 6:16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    [17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

    [18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    Romans 5:19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    [20] Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

    [21] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

    The apostle Paul was free from sin after he was saved, Peter, John, James, etc. All ex-sinners as they knew that sin is deceitful and only brings death. Why sin? Why walk in sickness, darkness, and death?

    1st John 1:[6] If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness ((sin)), we lie, and do not the truth:

    [7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 6 months ago

    This will be my last reply to you on this topic.

    You and I have debated this for years and you know we believe in different endings.

    You guys believe one day we will be Gods.

    You guys believe sinning is just a tool God uses to accomplish that.

    You guys don't believe in Satan or Hell.

    You try to ease this belief into the fold.

    We directly say there is One God and there always will be. And there is everlasting punishment for those who will face judgment because they didn't receive Gods atonement. (Christ)

    Christ came to lift the curse, "singular" caused by Adam sin.

    This curse which is death is pronounced on all creation, Not just man. Romans 8:22.

    Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

    That's all I have for you on this.

    God bless.
  • GiGi - 7 months ago
    Hello Friends, today I wish to keep the conflict in Israel/Gaza in my prayers especially ass it seems that things will escalate more over the next week. I pray that civilians in each area get to safety.

    To continue in my study on Who God truly is I move on to "L" and meditate on God as being LIFE.

    God revealed Himself to Moses in Exodus 3:14 as "I AM WHO I AM" which speaks to His self-existence. He does not derive His existence from any other, nor did He ever begin to exist at any time, nor will He ever not exit. This is impossible for Him.

    When He calls Himself "I AM, it is perhaps one of the profoundest statement we can know. HE IS!

    He is clearly stating that He exists, o if, and, or buts about it. He has always existed, and will exist forever.

    John 1:4 says that Life is in God. He is the source of all life. Because He is the Life. john 11:25 Jesus calls Himself the Resurrection and the Life. John 5:26 Jesus says that He has Life within Himself just as the Father has life within Himself. Thus saying that He is God , just as the Father is God. John 6:63 Jesus says that the Spirit gives life, affirming that the Spirit is God. And with these statements Jesus is saying that within the Godhead there are three who together gives life since they are Life itself. Nothing comes into existence without being created by God and it is He who give any creature life. In John 6:63.

    God made us. Each person of the Godhead is involved in giving us life because they are Life itself, as Jesus says in John 14:6 when He says that He is the way, the truth, and the life.

    Romans 5:10 speaks of how we are saved through the life of Christ. By the power of God's everlasting life, Jesus' body was resurrected from the dead and lives forever. This is how we receive salvation. Because He lives, we will live. And since all people ever created receive their natural life from God, those who are chosen by God to be saved, receive their spiritual life from God as well. see part 2
  • Oseas - In Reply - 8 months ago

    Your thinking is from human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective- Matthew 16:23-23.

    In Romans 5:9 Paul was speaking of the salvation of the wrath, NOT of the salvation of the tribulation. It seems you don't know to distinghish between WRATH and TRIBULATION. When Paul, author of Romans, returned to Lystra, and Iconium and Antioch- Acts 14:22-, he said to the believers to exhort the disciples to continue in the faith, because we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of GOD(as is written in Revelation 11:15-18 and 1 Cor.15:24-26).

    Furthermore, you repetidly say in your post the Father WRATHED against His Son, the Christ, the Messiah, what you are preaching will NEVER happended, GOD the Father NEVER wrathed against His Son, so what you wrote is devilish, in fact is satanic. As was revealed to Isaiah "Surely he -JESUS, the Messiah- hath borne our griefs and carried our sorrows, He was WOUNDED for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the CHASTISEMENT WAS UPON HIM (NOT THE WRATH OF THE FATHER AS YOU IN MALIGN SENSE WROTE) and with His stripes we are healed. Yeah, GOD NEVER wrathed against His own Son. By the way, your evil post is a confirmation of what is written the Word of GOD: "he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth"- John 3:31:

    Your interpretation of Scriptures is not different of the man of sin, son of perdition- Genesis 3:1, but equal. GOD forbid us.

    Well, in fact "no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him- Matthew 11:27. It's it.
  • Jordyn - In Reply - 8 months ago

    Romans 5:9 Much more then, being NOW JUSTIFIED by his blood, we shall be saved FROM WRATH through HIM.

    Psalms 88:16 Thy (the Father's) WRATH has gone over ME (Christ); thy (the Father's terrors have cut ME (Christ) off.

    Job 19:11 He (the Father) hath kindled HIS WRATH against ME (Christ), he (the Father) counteth ME (Christ) as one of his enemies.

    Isaiah 53:10 It pleased the LORD to bruise HIM, he hath put him to grief: when thou shall make HIS soul an OFFERING for SIN....

    The wrath of GOD that all creation deserved was POURED OUT, by his Father, on Christ.

    Christ is telling his disciples what is going to occur in a few hours:

    Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation (all the wrath of GOD poured out on Christ)), such as was not from the beginning of the world To THIS TIME, nor shall ever be (again).

    Matthew 24:21 And except those DAYS (of the great tribulation, the wrath of God on his SON) BE SHORTENED (Pilate SAID, is he so SOON be dead), there shall no flesh BE SAVED (all creation was saved by the great tribulation of Christ).

    If you want more scriptures I will give them to you.

    God Bless YOU!

  • S Spencer - 8 months ago
    "LIKEWISE RECKON" ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

    What does Paul mean by saying "LIKEWISE RECKON"?

    Obviously Paul we are warned we shouldn't continue in sin after being saved by grace as Paul mentioned in Romans 5:15-21. through Romans 6:1-2.

    Paul goes on in verses 3-4. "Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST were baptized into his death?

    Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.

    Paul goes on in verses 6-7- "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not SERVE sin.

    For he that is dead is freed from sin.

    Verses 9-11.

    Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

    For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.


    Paul is talking to Believers!

    Paul is urging believers to "RECOGNIZE" you wasn't just Identified with Christ death in baptism,

    You should also be Identified in his ressurection and have newness of Life.

    God didn't just offer Christ as a free gift for those who believe unto Salvation. SALVATION IS A NEW LIFE.


    Does this makes you perfect?


    Shall we resist sin? Yes

    We are perfect POSITIONALLY

    Colossians 3:1-4.

    We have been given an earnest of the Spirit, will be perfect CONDITIONALLY and glorified when we cast off this tabernacle/ Body of sin.

    God bless.
  • Jim Miller - In Reply - 8 months ago
    Yes, the concept that humans are born into sin is a fundamental belief in many Christian denominations, and it is often referred to as "original sin." The idea is based on several passages from the Bible, although the term "original sin" itself is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible. Here are some key passages that are often cited to support this doctrine:

    1. ** Genesis 3:6-7 (KJV)** - This passage describes the story of Adam and Eve's disobedience in the Garden of Eden: "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked, and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."

    2. ** Psalm 51:5 (KJV)** - In King David's prayer of confession, he says, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." This verse is often interpreted as evidence of the inheritance of a sinful nature from birth.

    3. ** Romans 5:12 (KJV)** - In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul writes, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." This verse is often cited to support the idea that all humans inherit a sinful nature from Adam, the first man.

    4. ** Ephesians 2:3 (KJV)** - In this passage, Paul describes humanity before coming to faith in Jesus: "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." This verse suggests that humans are, by nature, deserving of God's judgment due to their sinful inclinations.

    It's worth noting that interpretations of these verses and the doctrine of original sin can vary among Christian denominations..
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 8 months ago
    Conclusions (for now) on OSAS

    I have always stated that in the end; God has a certain number of people that enter hell; and a set number in heaven and since God is fair and an impartial judge ( Romans 2:11) that no one will be able to prove Him wrong; or even want to question the final verdict. The wicked will be speechless and the righteous rejoice forever. This settles any issues with OSAS or Predestination for that matter; and even free will. There are those who hate the light and love darkness ( John 3:19-21).

    There are as I mentioned before HUNDREDS of verses that on the surface may appear to render the OSAS concept void; but when we consider the context; the concluding meanings of the text and other factors more often than not it appears to support this idea. Again the scriptures that indate there is no longer any condemnation ( Romans 8:1) for believers; we have "passed from death to life ( John 5:24); will never die ( John 11:25) and a plethora of other supporting texts shows eternal security for a TRUE believer in Christ.

    My emphasis was on the FRUIT of one's life rather than just what is verbalized. One's heart determines their course of action; the righteous is contrasted with the wicked shown in passages such as Mark 7:20-23. Christ for the wicked is a means to an end; whether it be financial security (such as for those who buy into the prosperity gospel or are out to borrow money and fleece those who are called to follow passages such as Luke 6:30.) Christ for the righteous on the other hand is God in the flesh and we are compelled through the Spirit and a new heart to serve with love and obedience (See John 14:15 and read rest of the chapter for further context). Again; loving our enemies and dying for them isn't something natural man will do (see Romans 5:7-9). If we understand the indebtedness we have to Christ and not just a band aid for our sin behavior but a death sentence to our SIN NATURE through the new life in Christ we are saved.
  • Richard H Priday - 8 months ago
    OSAS or "Eternal security" under closer scrutiny.

    Once again; the verse "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom" is a necessary verse to quote and is found in Proverbs as well as at least a couple places in Psalms. Assuming that there is a genuine conversion needs to be in word and deed. Confessing with our mouth must be accompanied by believing in our heart ( Romans 10:9-10). Believing in our heart must involve; of course a heart change as Ezekiel 36:26 indicates. Evidence of that is an understanding that as sinners we are coming from being ENEMIES of God (i.e. the enmity is in both directions) as Romans 5:10 indicates. True faith understands the painful sacrifice of Christ to pay the redemption through the atonement which only His blood could do in our behalf. Obedience accompanies true love for God as John 14:15 indicates. RECOGNITION that we are crucified with Christ ( Galatians 2:20) means that our new nature is now having new affections and the old one is something which we no longer find our "default" mode. We are beyond wanting to avoid sin because of the consequences but because we recognize that we are offending a Holy God who dwells in us ( 2 Cor. 5:1; and apparently the meaning implicit in John 1:14 where He dwells in us. True salvation never brings contentment with sin; we may fall away but as Proverbs says in chapter 24; verse 16 he rises again; but it is not so for the wicked. We are saved by grace but always have potential to sin and a true believer will be as Paul was cognizant and wary of anything that will get in the way until the end of this earthly existance ( Philippians 3:12-14). This is like 1 Corinthians 9:24 in striving to gain the prize.

    Another related situation is that a true believer recognizes that rewards can be attained or lost according to Revelation 3:11. Realizing that we can enter heaven but as through the fire suffering loss ( 1 Cor. 3:15) shows salvation is the beginning of the journey of a truly saved person
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 8 months ago
    Hi Strobe.

    I would like to add a thought to what has already has been shared,, taking it from another angle.

    Romans 5:12-14 states as follows;

    "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    NEVERTHELESS DEATH REIGNED FROM ADAM TO MOSES, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

    Being that by one man (Adam) sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men,

    Isn't it reasonable to think that if there were men and women before Adam that this plague of sin and death would have passed over them? They wouldn't have suffered death and would still be amongst us.


    1 Corinthians 15:45-49. "And so it is written, THE FIRST MAN "Adam" was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. "Jesus".

    Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

    The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

    AND AS WE HAVE BORNE THE IMAGE OF THE EARTHY, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    God bless.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi Adam.

    Sorry for such a late response.

    Myself and several others on this site have debated this topic often and when debating you we've made it very clear that if a person is continuing in habitual sin, he is not likely a saved person.

    Adam, God chastise those that are his. He don't let his children get away with sin.

    Where you say a Christian can lose his salvation, We've said Everyone Professing Christianity is not saved, siting Matthew 7:21-23 and highlighting verse 23 "And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".

    Jesus said he knows his sheep.

    He also said I will never leave or forsake us.

    John 10:27.

    Hebrews 13:5.

    I've also referred people to this portion of scripture concerning this debated topic.

    Romans 5:20 through Romans 6:4.

    Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

    That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

    What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

    God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

    Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

    Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    Goodnight and God bless.
  • Chris - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Oseas. If I have it correct, you state that 'the origin of death is disobedience'. That of course would apply to Adam & Eve who disobeyed God's direct Command to them. What happened when they were tempted to listen to the serpent & not to God's Words? They committed the first sin, a sin that wasn't the product of a sin nature, for they did not have one - they were created absolutely pure.

    Then you state, "you die because you disobey Goddeadly effect on the body". I think you are referring to anyone after Adam, including you & me. What I believe here, is that I don't die (in the flesh) because of my disobeying God, but I die because Adam's sin nature was transmitted to me ( Romans 5:12). And how do I know that I have Adam's sin nature? The evidence is in physical death & of course, spiritual death as well, for which Christ's Blood avails. But that Blood does not avail for my death physically, except to know the promise of the resurrection.

    So this 'disobedience' that you're focussing on, is not the primary sin of Adam, but a product of the existing sin nature in each one of us. And to 'disobedience', we can add lust, envy, pride, stubbornness, idolatry, etc., showing that even if 'disobedience' was Adam's downfall, our downfall is not 'disobedience', but is the transmitted fallen nature of Adam, to which Christ is the only Remedy. So, it's a case of 'is our disobedience the root of sin within us, or does the root of sin in us cause us to disobey?'
  • Chris - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hello Oseas. My words, "death as confined to the grave" was in relation to death & the grave as being synonymous in that verse ( 1 Corinthians 15:55). I have since learned, that this is not the case when the Greek rendering is taken from other Bible translations & not the KJV & a couple of others. So "cause & effect" wouldn't apply in this comment to David0921.

    But you asked, "where does the dying process of man begin?" I think your answer suggests that it lies in the tongue/the throat (from the references you gave). However, it appears that the sin nature in man begins right at birth, even whilst in the womb (even as David expressed it in Psalm 51:5; also Romans 5:12). The tongue is indeed "a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell" ( James 3:6), but the tongue can only do what this verse tells us, and that is when the root of evil in the human heart manifests such expression. And that 'root' is the sin nature passed onto each one of us, which we can't avoid, but yet find forgiveness & a new nature from Heaven, only through Christ's Blood shed for us.
  • Pastor Ray - In Reply - 10 months ago
    I'm going to politely assume you grew up Pentecostal and that's when you were told that speaking in tongues was proof of salvation. That just isn't true and I'll show you why.

    1 Corinthians 14:26-28 is just saying if you are speaking in a tongue/another language you need an interpreter. Tongues were known languages. You see, tongues is used to say that they are speaking in a language they weren't taught. Proof of this is in Genesis 10:5 where the world was split because of the building of the tower of Babel, and God gave them each a different language or tongue.

    Now the New Testament understanding of tongues is that you are filled with the spirit and in turn you can speak in tongues of other languages. That was completely reserved for the first century church and here is why:

    1. It was clearly not a sign of salvation ( 1 Corinthians 14:22)

    a. It was for the Jews ( 1 Corinthians 14:21) "This people" is God talking about Jews.

    2. It was done away with ( 1 Corinthians 13:8-10)

    a. "Tongues shall cease": the meaning of "that which is perfect" means the completion of scripture. So when Revelation was finished by the apostle John, tongues ceased.

    3. Proof of salvation is by our works and not by signs ( James 2:14-19)

    4. Tongues was never received after baptism, but after receiving the Holy Spirit ( Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:6)

    a. After receiving the Holy Ghost they would speak in tongues, it was not when they were baptized.

    5. Tongues are not necessary ( 1 Corinthians 14:19)

    As clearly seen, tongues were merely a sign for the Jews that was used by Spirit filled Christians which was done away with after scripture was completed; not proof of salvation. Salvation is completely through Christ and Christ alone. Romans 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:23, and John 14:6. You don't need tongues to tell you that you are saved, you need the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

    If you would like more elaboration, just respond back to this with your questions.
  • Richard H Priday - 10 months ago
    The mercy of God

    "It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not." ( Lamentations 3:22)

    ...and in the wilderness where you saw how the LORD your God carried you, as a man carries his son, in all the way that you went until you came to this place.' ( Deuteronomy 1:31)

    But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. ( Romans 5:8)

    The mercy of God and His lovingkindness are something that never pass; or grow old. It is something to daily praise Him for no matter what the circumstances as we know that we shall indeed be in His presence someday; and out of these old bodies whether by Rapture or Resurrection. He has secured us for all eternity. As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. ( Psalm 103:12). As believers he has replaced our heart of stone with a heart of flesh ( Ezekiel 36:26). His children are sanctified and inevitably glorified ( Romans 8:30). Whether we consider the Israelites physically delivered from Egypt's bondage to the Promised Land; or our own delivery from the earth to heaven the Spirit seals believers with this "down payment" ( Eph. 1:13).


    That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. ( Matt. 5:45).

    This verse is related to previous ones speaking of loving our enemies as part of the Sermon on the Mount. Christ shared close ties with Judas Iscariot; according to Psalm 41:9 "Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me." The unregenerate enjoy for a time the creation in this life but attribute their blessings to what they consider the "goodness" of their heart; their accomplishments; merits; accolades etc. See Ecclesiastes 8:11 for a warning on delayed judgment; also see Galatians 6:7.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 10 months ago

    Part 5.

    Who is God? - His Nature

    We know certain things to be true of God for one reason: in His mercy He has condescended to reveal some of His qualities to us. God is spirit, by nature intangible ( John 4:24). God is One, but He exists as three Persons-God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit ( Matthew 3:16-17). God is infinite ( 1 Timothy 1:17), incomparable ( 2 Samuel 7:22), and unchanging ( Malachi 3:6). God exists everywhere ( Psalm 139:7-12), knows everything ( Psalm 147:5; Isaiah 40:28), and has all power and authority ( Ephesians 1; Revelation 19:6).

    Who is God? - His Work

    We cannot understand God apart from His works, because what God does flows from who He is. Here is an abbreviated list of God's works, past, present, and future: God created the world ( Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 42:5); He actively sustains the world ( Colossians 1:17); He is executing His eternal plan ( Ephesians 1:11) which involves the redemption of man from the curse of sin and death ( Galatians 3:13-14); He draws people to Christ ( John 6:44); He disciplines His children ( Hebrews 12:6); and He will judge the world ( Revelation 20:11-15).

    Who is God? - A Relationship with Him

    In the Person of the Son, God became incarnate ( John 1:14). The Son of God became the Son of Man and is therefore the "bridge" between God and man ( John 14:6; 1 Timothy 2:5). It is only through the Son that we can have forgiveness of sins ( Ephesians 1:7), reconciliation with God ( John 15:15; Romans 5:10), and eternal salvation ( 2 Timothy 2:10). In Jesus Christ "all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" ( Colossians 2:9). So, to really know who God is, all we have to do is look at Jesus.

    Jerry that is much of what we know about God and that probably don't scratch the surface on GOD!


  • S Spencer - In Reply - 10 months ago

    Part 4.

    EL-OLAM [el-oh-lahm]: "Everlasting God" ( Psalm 90:1-3) - God's nature is without beginning or end, free from all constraints of time, and He contains within Himself the very cause of time itself. "From everlasting to everlasting, You are God" ( Psalm 90:2).

    EL-GIBHOR [el-ghee-bohr]: "Mighty God" ( Isaiah 9:6) - the name describing the Messiah, Christ Jesus, in this prophetic portion of Isaiah. As a powerful and mighty warrior, the Messiah, the Mighty God, will accomplish the destruction of God's enemies and rule with a rod of iron ( Revelation 19:15).

    Those are just perhaps a few of the names of GOD.

    Here's another article that might help.

    Who is God? - The Fact

    The fact of God's existence is so conspicuous, both through creation and through man's conscience, that the Bible calls the atheist a "fool" ( Psalm 14:1). Accordingly, the Bible never attempts to prove the existence of God; rather, it assumes His existence from the very beginning ( Genesis 1:1). What the Bible does is reveal the nature, character, and work of God.

    Who is God? - The Definition

    Thinking correctly about God is of utmost importance because a false idea about God is idolatry. In Psalm 50:21, God reproves the wicked man with this accusation: "You thought I was altogether like you." To start with, a good summary definition of God is "the Supreme Being; the Creator and Ruler of all that is; the Self-existent One who is perfect in power, goodness, and wisdom."

    Who is God? - His Character

    Here are some of God's characteristics as revealed in the Bible: God is just ( Acts 17:31), loving ( Ephesians 2:4-5), truthful ( John 14:6), and holy ( 1 John 1:5). God shows compassion ( 2 Corinthians 1:3), mercy ( Romans 9:15), and grace ( Romans 5:17). God judges sin ( Psalm 5:5) but also offers forgiveness ( Psalm 130:4).

    See Part 5.

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