Discuss Romans 5


Romans 5 KJV Bible discussions
 
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 1 week ago
    GiGi,

    Part 5 and last Trinity discussion,

    Do you believe that Jesus lived a sinless life?

    Scripture is clear Jesus had no sin, Hebrews 4:15 1 Peter 2:22 1 John 3:5 Romans 5:12-15.

    Do you believe that the Father and the Son are one as Jesus said in Jn. 17 or that He and the Father are "in" one another and if they see Jesus, they see the Father?

    Both, Jesus said I and my Father are one John 10:30 and in other places, one means unity. Jesus was one with the Father not because Jesus was God but because He was filled with the Spirit and God dwelt in him, John 14:10, as we see God was in Christ 2 Corinthians 5:19

    God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by His Spirit that gave Jesus the power and authority like Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered to Jesus of His Father, Jesus did not have it, all was given to Him. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49 John 14:10. This is why Jesus said if you have seen me, you have seen the Father, John 14:9.

    Jesus in His prayer asked the Father that we may be one, as He and His Father are one through the words of the disciples, John 17:20-23. God and Jesus will dwell in us and we in them, 1 John 4:13-16 1 John 3:23-24.

    How is it that Jesus AND the Father send the Holy Spirit if there is only one person as God?

    Jesus said He would pray to the Father to give another comforter, John 14:16, we see in John 14:26 the Father will send in Jesus's name. In John 15:26 Jesus said I will send but this is from the Father and the Spirit of truth that proceedeth from the Father. This is not a person it is the Spirit of God.

    Please don't take this wrong, in the Trinity there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each Person is fully God, coequal, coeternal, and consubstantial. I'm sorry my understanding, is Scripture does not support that, Scripture is clear the Father is above all.

    Thank you, GiGi, I hope this is what you wanted I am not the best at this.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 1 week ago
    GiGi,

    Part 4 Trinity discussion.

    Do you believe that the will of the Father and the will of the Son are always the same or different?

    Jesus was obedient to the Father, Jesus said many times it is not His will but the will of the Father who sent Him, the same as we are to do, John 4:34 John 5:30 Mark 3:35.

    Do you believe that a human being can truly save all men from sin and death by a perfect life in their own will?

    First, I will have to say it was the will of the Father, Jesus at the end even asked His father if there was another way but not Jesus's will but the will of His Father, Matthew 26:39 Luke 22:42. We are told this is the foundation of our faith, Jesus' sacrificial death. God cannot die God is Spirit He has no blood to shed for sin it had to be a man, His Son, born of a woman.

    John 3:16 God gave His Son not Himself 1 John 2:22 1 John 4:3 2 John 1:7 Romans 5:8 2 Corinthians 5:21, God cannot be made sin, 1 Corinthians 15:17 Jesus died, and God raised Him from the dead, the first man to live a perfect life, the first fruits of those who sleep in death. 1 Corinthians 15:14 as said if Jesus was not a man who lived a perfect life and died and was raised from the dead all is vain.

    The first Adam was the first man Jesus was the last Adam and the second man, 1 Corinthians 15:45-47. 1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. The law had to be fulfilled by a man.

    How would a human being know that they are the Messiah from birth and thus know not to ever sin?

    As we see Luke 2:51-52 Jesus grew up increasing in wisdom and stature in favor with God and man. Jesus was twelve years old and He knew His father was God, but it doesn't say Jesus knew then He was to be the Messiah. God also said He would raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, Deuteronomy 18:15, Isaiah 11:1-5 Isaiah 61:1-2 confirmed in Luke 4:18-21. Romans 1:1-4 2 Timothy 2:8.

    See part 5
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Hebrews 6 - 1 month ago
    Hi Tdianne.

    I would like to add to what Gigi has shared.

    1 John 4:12-16.

    No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. HEREBY KNOW WE THAT WE DWELL IN HIM, AND HE IN US, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

    And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

    Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

    And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

    What John is saying is that no man has seen God at any time but if we love one another God dwells in us. In other words God today can manifest himself through believers in loving one another, "and the world sees That!

    John 13:34-35, "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

    "What makes this so unique?" What's new about it? Isn't it listed in the Commandments? What's unique and new about it is that he causes it!

    Look at verse 35.

    "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

    John 3:16

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,.

    ( God gave us his Spirit that causes us to love the Brothern.)

    God's Spirit, "The Holyspirit" causes those who loves God to love his brother also. 1 John 4:21"

    Romans 5:5.

    And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

    I hope this helps. God bless.
  • RED APPLE TREATY 4 ME ONLY on Romans 5 - 2 months ago
    Romans 5:8

    For in my hope Jesus Christ will appear to me for what I have done to recieve and be done .I will receive the love of God for me and the atonement.
  • Chris - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Page 1.

    Hi Valmar. Thanks for addressing my question & I do agree with you on the incomprehensible Work of the Spirit in giving healing, exhortation, etc. What I was looking for pertains to your subject, viz. a believer's eternal security. And also to a comment you made, "the ability to lose one's salvation rests completely with that individual".

    The way I understand the Scriptures, is that if we have the ability, or power, to lose/relinquish our salvation, then it presents questions not only to the Spirit's Work in saving a lost soul, but also the power we have to over-ride what the Spirit has done in our lives. Clearly, you believe that a saved sinner can either choose to depart Christ or to remain faithful to Him. My question then is: is it in the new spiritual make-up of the one now found 'in Christ' to ever desire to leave the One Who has delivered Him from so great a penalty & given him a new life with peace, joy & hope? Here, I'm not referring to a saved soul who through negligence or appeal of the flesh or Satan, strays & toys with the world. I'm confident if that soul is saved, then the Spirit will not let him go; and Momsage shared an apt testimony of this very work of God in her & her husband.

    So to my question, I believe the more relevant Work of the Holy Spirit in one's life is that: He Convicts man of his sin ( John 16:8-11); He Regenerates, or gives re-birth to the penitent sinner ( John 3:3-7, Titus 3:5, 2 Corinthians 5:17, 1 John 2:29); He Indwells ( 1 Corinthians 6:19, Romans 5:5, John 14:16); He Baptizes ( 1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:5); and He Seals ( 2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30). I'm sure you're conversant with these Scriptures, showing that salvation & securing is all of God, without any contribution from man. To Page 2.
  • Biblepreacher12 - In Reply - 4 months ago
    If nobody is without sin then nobody is going to heaven. Jesus told people in John 5:14 "go and sin no more." The Bible says in 1st John 3:8 "he that commith sin is of the devil..." no such verse as you sin because you are of God or Jesus. The wages of sin is hell fire and brimstone Romans 6:23. It pays to sin, it pays to serve the devil, your wage or payment is called death and not life eternal. Sinless people after the cross as Christ came to wash away sin and not make a new type of sinner called Christian sinners.

    The apostle Paul just like me is an ex-sinner saved by grace Romans 6:18. If nobody can be free from sin, Jesus died for nothing. The Bible makes it clear God does not hear the prayers uttered by sinners John 9:31.

    Romans 6:16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    [17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

    [18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    Romans 5:19] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    [20] Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

    [21] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

    The apostle Paul was free from sin after he was saved, Peter, John, James, etc. All ex-sinners as they knew that sin is deceitful and only brings death. Why sin? Why walk in sickness, darkness, and death?

    1st John 1:[6] If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness ((sin)), we lie, and do not the truth:

    [7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
  • GiGi - 5 months ago
    Hello Friends, today I wish to keep the conflict in Israel/Gaza in my prayers especially ass it seems that things will escalate more over the next week. I pray that civilians in each area get to safety.

    To continue in my study on Who God truly is I move on to "L" and meditate on God as being LIFE.

    God revealed Himself to Moses in Exodus 3:14 as "I AM WHO I AM" which speaks to His self-existence. He does not derive His existence from any other, nor did He ever begin to exist at any time, nor will He ever not exit. This is impossible for Him.

    When He calls Himself "I AM, it is perhaps one of the profoundest statement we can know. HE IS!

    He is clearly stating that He exists, o if, and, or buts about it. He has always existed, and will exist forever.

    John 1:4 says that Life is in God. He is the source of all life. Because He is the Life. john 11:25 Jesus calls Himself the Resurrection and the Life. John 5:26 Jesus says that He has Life within Himself just as the Father has life within Himself. Thus saying that He is God , just as the Father is God. John 6:63 Jesus says that the Spirit gives life, affirming that the Spirit is God. And with these statements Jesus is saying that within the Godhead there are three who together gives life since they are Life itself. Nothing comes into existence without being created by God and it is He who give any creature life. In John 6:63.



    God made us. Each person of the Godhead is involved in giving us life because they are Life itself, as Jesus says in John 14:6 when He says that He is the way, the truth, and the life.

    Romans 5:10 speaks of how we are saved through the life of Christ. By the power of God's everlasting life, Jesus' body was resurrected from the dead and lives forever. This is how we receive salvation. Because He lives, we will live. And since all people ever created receive their natural life from God, those who are chosen by God to be saved, receive their spiritual life from God as well. see part 2
  • Oseas - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Jordyn

    Your thinking is from human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective- Matthew 16:23-23.

    In Romans 5:9 Paul was speaking of the salvation of the wrath, NOT of the salvation of the tribulation. It seems you don't know to distinghish between WRATH and TRIBULATION. When Paul, author of Romans, returned to Lystra, and Iconium and Antioch- Acts 14:22-, he said to the believers to exhort the disciples to continue in the faith, because we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of GOD(as is written in Revelation 11:15-18 and 1 Cor.15:24-26).

    Furthermore, you repetidly say in your post the Father WRATHED against His Son, the Christ, the Messiah, what you are preaching will NEVER happended, GOD the Father NEVER wrathed against His Son, so what you wrote is devilish, in fact is satanic. As was revealed to Isaiah "Surely he -JESUS, the Messiah- hath borne our griefs and carried our sorrows, He was WOUNDED for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the CHASTISEMENT WAS UPON HIM (NOT THE WRATH OF THE FATHER AS YOU IN MALIGN SENSE WROTE) and with His stripes we are healed. Yeah, GOD NEVER wrathed against His own Son. By the way, your evil post is a confirmation of what is written the Word of GOD: "he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth"- John 3:31:

    Your interpretation of Scriptures is not different of the man of sin, son of perdition- Genesis 3:1, but equal. GOD forbid us.

    Well, in fact "no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him- Matthew 11:27. It's it.
  • Jordyn - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Oseas:

    Romans 5:9 Much more then, being NOW JUSTIFIED by his blood, we shall be saved FROM WRATH through HIM.

    Psalms 88:16 Thy (the Father's) WRATH has gone over ME (Christ); thy (the Father's terrors have cut ME (Christ) off.

    Job 19:11 He (the Father) hath kindled HIS WRATH against ME (Christ), he (the Father) counteth ME (Christ) as one of his enemies.

    Isaiah 53:10 It pleased the LORD to bruise HIM, he hath put him to grief: when thou shall make HIS soul an OFFERING for SIN....

    The wrath of GOD that all creation deserved was POURED OUT, by his Father, on Christ.

    Christ is telling his disciples what is going to occur in a few hours:

    Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation (all the wrath of GOD poured out on Christ)), such as was not from the beginning of the world To THIS TIME, nor shall ever be (again).

    Matthew 24:21 And except those DAYS (of the great tribulation, the wrath of God on his SON) BE SHORTENED (Pilate SAID, is he so SOON be dead), there shall no flesh BE SAVED (all creation was saved by the great tribulation of Christ).

    If you want more scriptures I will give them to you.

    God Bless YOU!

    .
  • Jim Miller - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Yes, the concept that humans are born into sin is a fundamental belief in many Christian denominations, and it is often referred to as "original sin." The idea is based on several passages from the Bible, although the term "original sin" itself is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible. Here are some key passages that are often cited to support this doctrine:

    1. ** Genesis 3:6-7 (KJV)** - This passage describes the story of Adam and Eve's disobedience in the Garden of Eden: "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked, and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."

    2. ** Psalm 51:5 (KJV)** - In King David's prayer of confession, he says, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." This verse is often interpreted as evidence of the inheritance of a sinful nature from birth.

    3. ** Romans 5:12 (KJV)** - In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul writes, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." This verse is often cited to support the idea that all humans inherit a sinful nature from Adam, the first man.

    4. ** Ephesians 2:3 (KJV)** - In this passage, Paul describes humanity before coming to faith in Jesus: "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." This verse suggests that humans are, by nature, deserving of God's judgment due to their sinful inclinations.

    It's worth noting that interpretations of these verses and the doctrine of original sin can vary among Christian denominations..
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Conclusions (for now) on OSAS

    I have always stated that in the end; God has a certain number of people that enter hell; and a set number in heaven and since God is fair and an impartial judge ( Romans 2:11) that no one will be able to prove Him wrong; or even want to question the final verdict. The wicked will be speechless and the righteous rejoice forever. This settles any issues with OSAS or Predestination for that matter; and even free will. There are those who hate the light and love darkness ( John 3:19-21).

    There are as I mentioned before HUNDREDS of verses that on the surface may appear to render the OSAS concept void; but when we consider the context; the concluding meanings of the text and other factors more often than not it appears to support this idea. Again the scriptures that indate there is no longer any condemnation ( Romans 8:1) for believers; we have "passed from death to life ( John 5:24); will never die ( John 11:25) and a plethora of other supporting texts shows eternal security for a TRUE believer in Christ.

    My emphasis was on the FRUIT of one's life rather than just what is verbalized. One's heart determines their course of action; the righteous is contrasted with the wicked shown in passages such as Mark 7:20-23. Christ for the wicked is a means to an end; whether it be financial security (such as for those who buy into the prosperity gospel or are out to borrow money and fleece those who are called to follow passages such as Luke 6:30.) Christ for the righteous on the other hand is God in the flesh and we are compelled through the Spirit and a new heart to serve with love and obedience (See John 14:15 and read rest of the chapter for further context). Again; loving our enemies and dying for them isn't something natural man will do (see Romans 5:7-9). If we understand the indebtedness we have to Christ and not just a band aid for our sin behavior but a death sentence to our SIN NATURE through the new life in Christ we are saved.
  • Richard H Priday - 6 months ago
    OSAS or "Eternal security" under closer scrutiny.

    Once again; the verse "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom" is a necessary verse to quote and is found in Proverbs as well as at least a couple places in Psalms. Assuming that there is a genuine conversion needs to be in word and deed. Confessing with our mouth must be accompanied by believing in our heart ( Romans 10:9-10). Believing in our heart must involve; of course a heart change as Ezekiel 36:26 indicates. Evidence of that is an understanding that as sinners we are coming from being ENEMIES of God (i.e. the enmity is in both directions) as Romans 5:10 indicates. True faith understands the painful sacrifice of Christ to pay the redemption through the atonement which only His blood could do in our behalf. Obedience accompanies true love for God as John 14:15 indicates. RECOGNITION that we are crucified with Christ ( Galatians 2:20) means that our new nature is now having new affections and the old one is something which we no longer find our "default" mode. We are beyond wanting to avoid sin because of the consequences but because we recognize that we are offending a Holy God who dwells in us ( 2 Cor. 5:1; and apparently the meaning implicit in John 1:14 where He dwells in us. True salvation never brings contentment with sin; we may fall away but as Proverbs says in chapter 24; verse 16 he rises again; but it is not so for the wicked. We are saved by grace but always have potential to sin and a true believer will be as Paul was cognizant and wary of anything that will get in the way until the end of this earthly existance ( Philippians 3:12-14). This is like 1 Corinthians 9:24 in striving to gain the prize.

    Another related situation is that a true believer recognizes that rewards can be attained or lost according to Revelation 3:11. Realizing that we can enter heaven but as through the fire suffering loss ( 1 Cor. 3:15) shows salvation is the beginning of the journey of a truly saved person
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Hi Strobe.

    I would like to add a thought to what has already has been shared,, taking it from another angle.

    Romans 5:12-14 states as follows;

    "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    NEVERTHELESS DEATH REIGNED FROM ADAM TO MOSES, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

    Being that by one man (Adam) sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men,

    Isn't it reasonable to think that if there were men and women before Adam that this plague of sin and death would have passed over them? They wouldn't have suffered death and would still be amongst us.

    WE ARE DESCENDENTS OF ADAM.

    1 Corinthians 15:45-49. "And so it is written, THE FIRST MAN "Adam" was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. "Jesus".

    Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

    The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

    AND AS WE HAVE BORNE THE IMAGE OF THE EARTHY, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

    God bless.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Hi Adam.

    Sorry for such a late response.

    Myself and several others on this site have debated this topic often and when debating you we've made it very clear that if a person is continuing in habitual sin, he is not likely a saved person.

    Adam, God chastise those that are his. He don't let his children get away with sin.

    Where you say a Christian can lose his salvation, We've said Everyone Professing Christianity is not saved, siting Matthew 7:21-23 and highlighting verse 23 "And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".

    Jesus said he knows his sheep.

    He also said I will never leave or forsake us.

    John 10:27.

    Hebrews 13:5.

    I've also referred people to this portion of scripture concerning this debated topic.

    Romans 5:20 through Romans 6:4.

    Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

    That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

    What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

    God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

    Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

    Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    Goodnight and God bless.
  • Chris - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Oseas. If I have it correct, you state that 'the origin of death is disobedience'. That of course would apply to Adam & Eve who disobeyed God's direct Command to them. What happened when they were tempted to listen to the serpent & not to God's Words? They committed the first sin, a sin that wasn't the product of a sin nature, for they did not have one - they were created absolutely pure.

    Then you state, "you die because you disobey Goddeadly effect on the body". I think you are referring to anyone after Adam, including you & me. What I believe here, is that I don't die (in the flesh) because of my disobeying God, but I die because Adam's sin nature was transmitted to me ( Romans 5:12). And how do I know that I have Adam's sin nature? The evidence is in physical death & of course, spiritual death as well, for which Christ's Blood avails. But that Blood does not avail for my death physically, except to know the promise of the resurrection.

    So this 'disobedience' that you're focussing on, is not the primary sin of Adam, but a product of the existing sin nature in each one of us. And to 'disobedience', we can add lust, envy, pride, stubbornness, idolatry, etc., showing that even if 'disobedience' was Adam's downfall, our downfall is not 'disobedience', but is the transmitted fallen nature of Adam, to which Christ is the only Remedy. So, it's a case of 'is our disobedience the root of sin within us, or does the root of sin in us cause us to disobey?'
  • Chris - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Hello Oseas. My words, "death as confined to the grave" was in relation to death & the grave as being synonymous in that verse ( 1 Corinthians 15:55). I have since learned, that this is not the case when the Greek rendering is taken from other Bible translations & not the KJV & a couple of others. So "cause & effect" wouldn't apply in this comment to David0921.

    But you asked, "where does the dying process of man begin?" I think your answer suggests that it lies in the tongue/the throat (from the references you gave). However, it appears that the sin nature in man begins right at birth, even whilst in the womb (even as David expressed it in Psalm 51:5; also Romans 5:12). The tongue is indeed "a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell" ( James 3:6), but the tongue can only do what this verse tells us, and that is when the root of evil in the human heart manifests such expression. And that 'root' is the sin nature passed onto each one of us, which we can't avoid, but yet find forgiveness & a new nature from Heaven, only through Christ's Blood shed for us.

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  • Pastor Ray - In Reply - 8 months ago
    I'm going to politely assume you grew up Pentecostal and that's when you were told that speaking in tongues was proof of salvation. That just isn't true and I'll show you why.

    1 Corinthians 14:26-28 is just saying if you are speaking in a tongue/another language you need an interpreter. Tongues were known languages. You see, tongues is used to say that they are speaking in a language they weren't taught. Proof of this is in Genesis 10:5 where the world was split because of the building of the tower of Babel, and God gave them each a different language or tongue.

    Now the New Testament understanding of tongues is that you are filled with the spirit and in turn you can speak in tongues of other languages. That was completely reserved for the first century church and here is why:

    1. It was clearly not a sign of salvation ( 1 Corinthians 14:22)

    a. It was for the Jews ( 1 Corinthians 14:21) "This people" is God talking about Jews.

    2. It was done away with ( 1 Corinthians 13:8-10)

    a. "Tongues shall cease": the meaning of "that which is perfect" means the completion of scripture. So when Revelation was finished by the apostle John, tongues ceased.

    3. Proof of salvation is by our works and not by signs ( James 2:14-19)

    4. Tongues was never received after baptism, but after receiving the Holy Spirit ( Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:6)

    a. After receiving the Holy Ghost they would speak in tongues, it was not when they were baptized.

    5. Tongues are not necessary ( 1 Corinthians 14:19)

    As clearly seen, tongues were merely a sign for the Jews that was used by Spirit filled Christians which was done away with after scripture was completed; not proof of salvation. Salvation is completely through Christ and Christ alone. Romans 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:23, and John 14:6. You don't need tongues to tell you that you are saved, you need the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

    If you would like more elaboration, just respond back to this with your questions.
  • Richard H Priday - 8 months ago
    The mercy of God

    "It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not." ( Lamentations 3:22)

    ...and in the wilderness where you saw how the LORD your God carried you, as a man carries his son, in all the way that you went until you came to this place.' ( Deuteronomy 1:31)

    But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. ( Romans 5:8)

    The mercy of God and His lovingkindness are something that never pass; or grow old. It is something to daily praise Him for no matter what the circumstances as we know that we shall indeed be in His presence someday; and out of these old bodies whether by Rapture or Resurrection. He has secured us for all eternity. As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. ( Psalm 103:12). As believers he has replaced our heart of stone with a heart of flesh ( Ezekiel 36:26). His children are sanctified and inevitably glorified ( Romans 8:30). Whether we consider the Israelites physically delivered from Egypt's bondage to the Promised Land; or our own delivery from the earth to heaven the Spirit seals believers with this "down payment" ( Eph. 1:13).

    WORD OF WARNING

    That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. ( Matt. 5:45).

    This verse is related to previous ones speaking of loving our enemies as part of the Sermon on the Mount. Christ shared close ties with Judas Iscariot; according to Psalm 41:9 "Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me." The unregenerate enjoy for a time the creation in this life but attribute their blessings to what they consider the "goodness" of their heart; their accomplishments; merits; accolades etc. See Ecclesiastes 8:11 for a warning on delayed judgment; also see Galatians 6:7.
  • Richard H Priday - 9 months ago
    Common issues with online testimonies.

    The last posting discusses repentance. John 16:8 is a theme I have repeated several times in regard to sin; righteousness and judgment to come being the primary purpose of the Holy Spirit today. In many testimonies there is little emphasis on sin that

    someone is saved from; especially a grasp of the sin NATURE. God's love is usually described in some detail; but any concept of a foreign righteousness that we experience (such as with Daniel; Isaiah and John the Revelator when they encountered the risen Christ; or Paul's Damascus Road experience in Acts 9 which brings us flat on our faces is often lacking.

    We see these issues especially with the heaven and hell encounters that are described (whether real or fallacious). Trying to

    sort out fact from fiction is too involved to have a detailed analysis in this posting. In these type of testimonies especially; but also in many others we see the concept of "losing one's salvation" as a common theme. A general warning here in such a mindset is discarding clear scriptures on the subject as well as taking hope away for those who truly love Christ by causing them to live in constant fear that a particular sin can make them be lost. This needs to be balanced with those who are too confident that they are saved who haven't tested themselves to see if they are in the faith ( 2 Cor. 13:5-6).

    It is understandable with a number of young people especially who had an initial faith in God or exposure to the Gospel who repent as a Prodigal son after a time of rebellion may see how the love of Christ was a constant thing in their lives in the background. What we don't see is too many people who clearly understand that we are enemies of God; and alienated from His presence before coming to faith ( Romans 5:10 etal).

    And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. (PHillipians 1:28).
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 9 months ago
    S Spencer on the last week.

    Part 2

    2 To make an end of sins (Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law). The verb in the Hebrew text translated as "put an end to" can mean "to seal up". The covering of our sins was accomplished on the cross at Calvary. When he said IT IS FINISHED, he provided us with the garments (wedding garments) to cover our sins. Psalm 32:1-2 Matthew 1:21 John 1:29 Romans 8:3 1 Corinthians 15:3 Hebrews 10:8-11 1 John 3:5 Revelation 16:15.

    Is there still sin today? Yes. Will there still be sin and death after Jesus's second coming? Yes. Even during the 1000 years, there will be sin and death until all is made new Rev. 21:1-4 but through Jesus, they are covered and sealed, Rev. 16:15

    3 To make reconciliation for iniquity (Reconciliation is an element of salvation that refers to the results of the atonement, iniquity is guilt, crookedness, perverseness, that which is not straight or upright, moral distortion, in the dark. Colossians 1:20-22 Isaiah 53:6 Isaiah 53:11 Ephesians 2:16 Titus 2:14 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

    The word reconcile means to bring back to a former state of harmony Jesus reconciled both Jew and Gentile unto God in one body by the cross and now through Jesus we both Jew and Gentile have access by one Spirit unto the Father no more strangers or foreigners but fellow citizens. Making reconciliation for iniquity concerns our involvement in the work of salvation.

    4 To bring in everlasting righteousness. Everlasting, no end, righteousness, justice, mercy, loving-kindness, in conformity to the demands of the covenant and according to God's will, fair and balanced. Isaiah 61:10-11 2 Corinthians 5:21 Romans 3:21-26 Romans 5:17-21 1 Peter 2:24.

    See Part 3
  • Chris - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Page 1.

    Thank you again Frankie J for the lengthy comment - I shall pick up on the 'important' matters.

    Romans 5:12-14. I certainly agree that spiritual death is seen in these verses, but also that as a result of sin's entrance into A & E & then into humanity, physical death was also the outcome. If this wasn't the case, would you say that A & E would have experienced physical death anyway if they remained without sin? I liken this to what our state will be in the Millennial Rule of Christ & beyond, where sin is finally vanquished & physical death will be no more. Both spiritual death & physical death are results of sin & the human corruption. Absolute purity of life, without any stain of sin can only be attained after we leave behind these bodies of sin.

    I certainly don't "imply that the writers of the Scriptures are hypocrites". Rather, they speak of the new birth, the new revived spirit in man & what this means & how we ought to live. Even in Romans 6 as you quoted, where the apostle writes of 'death to sin, crucifixion of the old man, & being freed from sin', can he or anyone who received his message ever claim that sin was now eradicated from every part of their being? Rather, the message has always been not to let sin have dominion over them. What is this? Sinlessness, or through their new birth & abiding Holy Spirit, they should never be servants to sin but to righteousness. Here we have the new God-given life, in mortal sin-affected bodies, determined now by the Spirit's Work, to live for God & doing His Will & not be servants to sinful passions. Has sin left them or ever will leave them? Never. But they can have victory over it & so the great need for that blessed spiritual armor to deal with Satan's onslaughts & not live in defeat. We might now live unto God, but sin will always be at our door & we will always fail simply because the sin nature is still active revealing itself even in the most insignificant of sins; because we know that sin is sin.
  • Chris - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Thanks Frankie J. Just going through your comments, with my understanding from the Scriptures.

    a. 'You are in State 1, as in Eden before the fall' - I assume slowly progressing to attain the fullness of that state. The only problem with this is that you & I have a sin nature inherited from Adam & Eve, whereas before the fall Adam & Eve had no sin - they were pure. Romans 5:12-14. If we could ever reach that state before death, i.e. of total purity as A & E, there would be no need to die physically as sin would no longer be in our members & the sin nature once given without choice, would be eradicated. But death will come to all of us proving we are still sinners, and should the Lord tarry, our dying will prove without doubt that our inherited sin nature demands the death penalty ( Romans 6:23). For this Christ came, that we might be resurrected into new & eternal life because of His forgiveness of our sins thus giving us clear consciences before God.

    b. Paul never ever reached full purity or sinlessness ( Romans 7:14-25) - he would have yearned for it but he knew that while in this body that desire to be exactly like his Savior would be impossible. And his exclamation: "O wretched man that I am", was his constant sense of failure before an Holy God, but he kept his body in subjection & his eyes fixed on Jesus, aiming for the prize ( Philippians 3:12-14).

    c. I agree, 'being tempted is not a sin', even as Christ was tempted. But Jesus never gave in to it even to the agony of the Cross. Could we ever say the same for us sinners, destined for hell, but saved only by the Grace of God? The Work of the Spirit is constant & should be a witness inwardly & outwardly as we mature in faith & love - but our perfection will only come beyond the grave when our sin nature will be gone & "we will be like Him", both physically & when the flesh will be cleansed from all evil. Blessings.
  • Pierre1939 - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Adam there is a verse saying while we were yet sinners Christ died for us Romans 5:6....So before we were born Christ has already died for us....And i was found of them that sought me NOT And made manifest unto them that asked not after me.....k lemme go
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi Frankie.

    No we cannot achieve perfection in these sinful lust filled bodies.

    restraining from sin doesn't make you perfect.

    Example;

    If you chain a vicious man biting dog up, does that keep him from "WANTING" to bite? He's still a man biting vicious dog.

    We Christians have a change of heart and a nature that wants to obey the spirit which brings life, but we have another enemy that won't go away called the flesh.

    The flesh lust to do evil and wars against the new nature.

    See Romans 7.

    And if you want a broader picture read Romans 5 on through Romans 8.

    I Hope this helps.

    God bless
  • Duncan - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Part 1

    Hi,

    after the fall of Adam the father and eve the mother of all human beings which happened at the Garden of Eden in the beginning. Sin entered into the world and separated us from our God who made the heavens and the earth.

    it is written in Romans 5;12 -14

    12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

    -So, this sin that entered separated us from God who is Holy as it is written in the book of Isaiah 59:2

    It's your sins that have cut you off from God. Because of your sins, he has turned away and will not listen anymore.

    Now man was created to fellowship with God but due to the sins committed at the garden of Eden which cause separation there was nothing that man could do to get Righthouse with God. But the mercy of God is great and endures forever.

    as it is written in Psalm 107:1

    1.Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good! For His mercy endures forever.

    and in John 3:16

    For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved

    Please read Part 2.

    Amen.
  • Richard H Priday - 9 months ago
    Christ: Real and imaginary

    Previously; the concept has been introduced as to evidence of good or bad fruit as indicators of true or false salvation in earlier posts. The idea of self; somehow being able to adequately perform the behaviors such as illustrated in the Beatitudes on the Sermon on the Mount (i.e. be a peacemaker; meek; etc) basically demonstrates humanism in some form. I also mentioned the idea of "decisional regeneration". Often; there isn't much thought once we have "fire insurance" as it were; of such verses as 2 Corinthians 13:5 in testing ourselves to see if we are; indeed in the faith. Iron sharpening iron ( Prov. 27:17) is a way that God often uses to chastise us; which He does with all who are truly in the faith. We also should examine carefully the entire message of scripture; in this case the Beatitudes. Here it DEFINES who the meek are; those who are "despitefully used; wrongfully accused and otherwise abused" (my own rhyme giving the gist of the scripture). In the flesh we may put up with this; but expect someone to pity us; unlike what Jesus went through in Isaiah 53. To die for a friend is one thing; but for enemies is something else ( Romans 5:7-8).

    The opposite also holds true; people somehow read the Gospels and think that Christ was all about bringing people together; peace and harmony. The unregenerate mind glosses over Matthew 10:34; 10:36; and the 10 times they tried to kill Jesus by various methods such as stoning and throwing him off a cliff BEFORE the cross. The last case was when Lazarus was raised from the dead when he along with Christ were in the final failed attempt at assassination. The world of course has trouble understanding the need for a bloody cross; of the fact that ALL of us are guilty for His death (at least the elect). Ultimately; to believe Christ is God (part of a triune God) has to be given by God ( Matt. 16:17).

    Without God we can do nothing ( John 15:5). See also Hebrews 11:6.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hey brother S Spencer,

    I know this has been discussed before and we have different understandings, but just have a couple of thoughts to consider, I will not go over all this prophecy just the first of 9:27.

    If I am correct, it is thought the 69th week ended when Jesus' ride into Jerusalem fulfilling Zech. 9:9. Dan. 9:26 says 69 weeks unto the Messiah, should we look over the 3.5 years from when Jesus was baptized and anointed with the Holy Spirit? Look at the multitude that met Him when He rode in, they knew who He was, He came for the lost sheep of Israel.

    The antichrist will make a covenant with Israel. We go to Dan. 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: So here we have the last week/7 years and he is said to be the antichrist.

    "He shall confirm the covenant with many", could he in this verse fit Jesus? Psalms 105:8-11 Isaiah 42:6 Isaiah 49:8 Isaiah 49:6 Romans 15:8 Galatians 3:17 Hebrews 13:20 I could list many more. The word confirm does not mean make, it shows us the covenant already existed. Confirm means to strengthen, to be stronger.

    God made a covenant with Abraham and Abraham said God would provide Himself a Lamb, Genesis 22:7-8, was Jesus this Lamb, Isaiah 53:7 John 1:29 Revelation 5:6. This covenant is with many, Zechariah 2:11 Isaiah 53:11 Matthew 20:28 Matthew 26:28 Romans 5:15,19. Jesus was sent to confirm the promise/covenant made unto Abraham, Romans 15:8. Could Jesus be this he?

    "In the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" Sacrifice and Oblation, the first word is talking about the daily sacrifices, the Tamid, the morning and evening lamb the same time Jesus was on the cross 9 AM the first to 3 PM the last. Then the second word refers to all of the other offerings presented to the Lord.

    Do you think the sacrifice and oblation was designed by God to completely cease upon the finished work of Jesus on the cross? Hebrews 9.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • MountHoreb - In Reply - 10 months ago
    Leoj

    Hello everyone, Had an interesting question asked at our men's Bible group. " Our we sinners because we sin, or do we sin because where're sinners". Would like to hear your comments based from the Bible . Thank you

    MountHoreb Response to Leoj:

    When reading the bible, A Sinner is someone who has a leaning or urge to go against the will of Jehovah God ( Psalm 83:18)

    God Saids one thing; a Sinner is inclined to go the other way. we have an example at Genesis 3

    Point: Romans 5:12-15

    There is Hope: John 3:16,17; 1 Timothy 1:8-10; 2 Timothy 3:16,17; John 17:3

    Jehovah ( psalm 83:18) is not looking for perfection. he is like a father and we are like his Children prone to mistakes.

    our father is looking for us to tell him the truth, to be humble, to cry to him and repent especially if it's something that

    is to difficult to handle on our own. as sinners we need the spirit of God in order to have self-control in all things. This is why Jesus said what he said at Matthew 6:9-12; 1 Peter 5:6-11

    Point: Luke 24:45-48; Romans 7:7-25

    Hope these scriptures help. Thanks
  • Richard H Priday - 11 months ago
    Assurance of salvation: Focus on meaning of 1 Timothy 2:4 in light of current subject matter

    The matter of Predestination becomes a thorny one on this verse. On the surface it would seem a Universalist mindset saying that all men eventually will be saved is a logical conclusion but clearly the Bible indicates otherwise. When we examine the same book in chapter 4 verse 10 we see that Christ is the Savior "especially of those who believe" which makes no sense unless we understand that He knows all who will eventually come to Him therefore in that sense while we were yet sinners; Christ died for us as we see in Romans 5:8. There are certain joys and comforts in this life as well for everyone; saved or lost to some extent; the subject being called "common grace" is a cause of no small stir among some; I would prefer to say delayed sentence.

    This verse clearly is different when we understand the will of the Father toward Christ and all those predestined to come to the Lord as we see in the Book of John. There are verses in Isaiah where it states that He came to take away the sins of many ( Isaiah 53:12; also see Hebrews 9:28). It is clear also that "few will be saved" ( Luke 13:24).

    The focus on much of this should be on God's method of salvation; all man centered attempts to somehow fulfill statements in the Sermon on the Mount may appeal to a humanist or even an atheist in principle; but in reality unregenerate man has no capacity to fulfill the law; let alone the deeper implications; both of omission and commission of righteousness and avoiding sins of those types as well.

    His church is a part of His Body in a mystical sense but also in a very real one as well ( 1 Cor. 12:27). He purchased it or redeemed it with His blood; and this in a legally binding covenant as it were. God always keeps His end of a bargain; man on the other hand finds many schemes. Again; the key is if the Lord confesses we are His own ( Matt. 10:32).


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