Discuss Romans 4

  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 4 weeks ago
    Hey Sonofman 1973

    God's eternal purpose

    Jesus the Messiah/Christ God's only begotten Son is the purpose, I do not know if I am reading your question correctly, may you and others have more or different understandings.

    1 Corinthians 2:16 tells us we have the mind of Christ, but no one can know the mind of God. 2 Peter 3:18 tells us to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus. All began with Jesus; Jesus is the beginning of God's plan. Isaiah 45:18 Isaiah 46:8-10 God and there is none like Him, He declared the end from the beginning His counsel (His purpose and plan by His will) shall stand and God will do all His pleasure, Psalms 33:11.

    God is not in our time the end of His plan is as the beginning God's plan was completed when He made it, we have the Bible, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit His plan is made known to us as our time comes to be, as in Ephesians 1:10-12 to be the praise and glory to God.

    God declared from the very beginnings of history, Acts 17:24-26 there is but one human race, we all are of the same blood, and in Jesus Christ we become brothers and sisters. In God's plan, it is finished, nothing will change. In God, it is finished already to Him who is from everlasting to everlasting, Psalms 90:2 and how He can "calleth those things which be not as though they were." Romans 4:17-18.

    Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    Ephesians 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    God bless,

    RLW
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Justification. Sanctification and Glorification.

    Part 5. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Justification.)

    Therefore, we see that when Paul uses the term justification he is talking about a man's relationship with God; when James uses the same term, he is talking about a man's relationship with the world. One is perpendicular, and the other is horizontal.

    Paul and James View Faith.

    The same procedure runs true in their use of the term faith. Again, they mean something different. When Paul talks of faith he is talking about that which is toward God. Paul says that saving faith - a faith that is genuine and real - will transform a person's life. Paul said of himself,

    But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. ( Philippians 3:7)

    A real revolution took place in his life when he came to Christ. Looking again at Galatians 3:6, we read that "as Abraham believed Godit was accounted to him for righteousness." And then in Romans:

    But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. ( Romans 4:5)

    Paul is speaking here of that which we bring to God. The only thing that a sinner can bring to God is faith in Jesus Christ. When James writes about this, he is not talking about faith toward God but about the works of faith. So Paul is talking about the root of faith, and James is talking about the fruit of faith, but they are both defending the citadel of faith.

    Here in James 2:14.

    James is not talking about the works of the Law. The faith that James is talking about here is professing faith, that which is phony and counterfeit. Paul refers to the same idea when he says in 1 Corinthians 15:2, "unless ye have believed in vain." Paul also wrote, "Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith" ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). James simply says that the faith which saves you will produce works-"works of faith.

    See Part 6. Paul and James View Faith.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Justification. Sanctification and Glorification.

    Part 4.

    J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul vs. James in the Use of Words)

    Examining the context.

    Therefore, the confusion rests in a misunderstanding of their use of the three words: justify, faith, and works. If we understand what each means in his use of these three words, we shall find out that Paul and James are not in conflict.

    Paul and James View Justification.

    In the interest of clarity, let us find out what Paul and James really meant when they used these three terms.

    The first term to come before us is justified or justification. When Paul uses this term it always means justified in God's sight. He speaks of how the sinner down here is made right with God. He is never justified by works before God, but he is justified by faith in Jesus Christ. That is the only thing that God accepts. In fact, Paul makes it very clear:

    For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath something of which to glory, but not before God. ( Romans 4:2)

    So we see that when Paul uses the word justification he is thinking of the sinner's position in connection with and before God.

    Now when James uses the term justification he is not thinking of it as being before God at all. Rather, he is thinking of justification before men - how a Christian is justified before men - and he makes that clear:

    Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works; show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. ( James 2:18)

    In other words, James says, "I am talking here about justification for people who don't believe it until they see it. I am talking about justification before men." Then he makes that perfectly clear again, for a little later he writes,

    Ye see [not God sees, but ye see], then, that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. ( James 2:24)

    See Part 5. J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul and James View Justification.)
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Justification. Sanctification and Glorification.

    Part 3

    ABRAHAM.

    Genesis 22:1-18.

    Vs 14-18. And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh, as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen. And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD; for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son; That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou hast obeyed my voice.

    Was Abraham justified by works? Yes.

    Scripture says that he was justified by works. ( James 2:21-24)

    Do we have here a contradiction to the apostle Paul? Did not Paul say that Abraham was justified by faith - not by works? Paul makes a very specific statement in Romans:

    "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath something of which to glory, but not before God. ( Romans 4:2)

    Then over in Galatians 3:6 we read, "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

    Is Paul and James writings in conflict on this point? NO!

    Here is an article by J Vernon Mcgee explaining this Paradox.

    Paul vs. James in the Use of Words.

    May I hasten to state that Paul and James do not conflict at all. They are in entire agreement. As someone has said, "Paul and James do not stand face to face, fighting against each other, but they stand back to back fighting opposite foes." The whole problem lies in the fact that they use the same words, but with a different meaning altogether. They are discussing the same subject from different viewpoints. This you will find upon examining the context.

    See Part 4.

    J Vernon Mcgee. (Paul vs. James in the Use of Words)
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Chris,

    Part 3

    I hope even though you may not agree, you can make sense of my replies. I would like to tell you I do not Have anything in common with JW or their translation of the bible.

    My understanding we are mortal beings and no part of us is immortal. I see the spirit as our breath/life that goes back to God when we die, Ecclesiastes 11:7 and Scripture tell us the soul can die, Ezekiel 18:4 Matthew 10:28 Hebrew 9:27. Like Paul said of David being dead in the tomb and has not ascended to heaven, Acts 2:34. We do not put on immortality until the resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:53-54.

    Bear with me my Greek is kindergarten level, arche the beginning or origin I see it maybe a little differently I understand God the Father as the Creator as in Genesis 1:1 and Psalm 19:1. I believe in the plan of God Jesus was first and as in Romans 4:17 Jesus was in Gods eyes in the womb of Mary and then the angels and all the counsel of heaven then the earth and all that was to be.

    In Genesis 17:5 when God renamed Abram to Abraham God said, "for the father of many nations I have made thee". It was not Abraham will become a father of many nations it was already done in the plan of God.

    "Firstborn of every creature and the firstborn from the dead" Jesus was the firstborn, Jesus being the first in God's plan would make Him the firstborn, and Jesus is the firstborn of the dead. There were people brought back from the dead like in 2 Kings 13:21 the guy was thrown into Elisha's tomb and when his body touched Elisha's bone he came back to life and stood up, and we see the ones in the New Testament. No one who died before Jesus who came back to life died again Jesus was the first to overcome death.

    Jesus is the firstborn of the dead because He had no sin and death could not hold Him and when Jesus rose He rose in a glorified body never to die again, Revelation 1:18. That is what we look forward to when we are resurrected.

    See part 4 sorry I am slow.
  • Oseas - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Tunney

    Greetings in Christ JESUS

    Yes,one plants,another waters,but GOD gives the increase.JESUS said:in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers,Gather ye together first the tares,and bind them in bundles to burn them:but it shall be in the end of this world.And gather the wheat into my barn.Yes,our GOD will give the increase(The Word is GOD,self-executable),and you know that He calls those things which be not as though they were- Romans 4:17

    JESUS said,he that reapes receives wages,and gathers fruit unto LIFE ETERNAL(it's marvelous):that both he that sowes(JESUS sowed)and he that reaps(under the command of JESUS)may(both)rejoice together

    Re.11:15-18

    15The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord,and of His Christ;and He shall reign for ever and ever

    16And the four and twenty elders,which sat before GOD on their seats,fell upon their faces,and worshipped GOD

    17Saying,We give thee thanks,O Lord God Almighty-JESUS-,which art,and was,and art to come;because thou has taken to thee thy great power,and has reigned.(GOD calls those things which be not as though they were- Romans 4:17.The Word is GOD,self-executing)

    18And the NATIONS were(WILL BE)angry,and GOD's WRATH is come,and the time of the dead,that they should be Judged,and that GOD should give reward unto His servants the prophets,and to the saints,and them that fear His name,small and great;and should destroy them which destroy the earth

    Mat.25:31-34&41&46

    31When the Son of man shall come in his glory,and all the holy angels with him,then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory

    32Before Him shall be gathered all nations:He shall separate them one from another,as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats

    33And He shall set the sheep on His right hand,the goats on the left

    34Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand,Come,ye blessed of my Father,inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world

    41Unto them on the lft hand-Depart from me youCURSED...
  • Oseas - In Reply - 5 months ago
    Eduard54

    Remember: Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of GOD- Romans 10:17. The Word is GOD, understand? Yes, the Word is the invisible GOD, self-executable. For example: The Word said: Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a VIRGIN shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

    The Word said(the Word is GOD): Isaiah 9:6-7:

    6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    7 Of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with Judgment and with Justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. (By the way, GOD calleth those things which be not as though they were- Romans 4:17-understand? The Word is GOD, self-executing).

    Have you never read Hebrews 11 ?
  • Tunney on Luke 16:22 - 5 months ago
    May the LORD give us wisdom in reading, studying and applying HIS word.

    2 Timothy 2:15

    James 2:

    10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

    Romans 4:

    2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

    3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

    4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

    5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    Ephesians 2:

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Titus 3:

    4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

    5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

    7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    May we be intercessors in CHRIST name, Isaiah 59:16, for those who have been blinded by the god of this world, 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4.

    We are called to stand in the gap for others, Ezekiel 22:30, and plant the seed of the word that others may water and that GOD will give the increase.

    Acts 15:

    8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

    9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

    10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

    11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

    Salvation is by faith in CHRIST alone.

    GOD bless everyone!
  • Giannis - 7 months ago
    Romans 4:21-22,

    " 21 And being(Abraham) fully persuaded that, what he(God) had promised, he was able also to perform.

    22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness."

    The very important role that faith (about anything that has to do with God and us) plays in our life is shown in verse 22. When we believe that God is able to heal us when we ask Him for, then we will get what we asked for, because our faith "is imputed to us for rightneouness".
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Hi S Spencer,

    Hope your weekend went well brother, if I may give my understanding of Ephesians 4:8-10. As He Ascended up on High, Acts 1:9 He led captivity captive and gave gifts unto men.

    He led captivity captive; we see this also in Judges 5:12 which has a meaning to take captive your captors. When Jesus rose from the grave, he took power over what held Him captive. Death and the grave were what held Him, but because He was without sin, they could not hold Him Acts 2:24. Since the garden, Satan had the power of death and the grave, and when Jesus rose from the grave, He took that power which are the keys, Revelation 1:18.

    Gifts unto men, we see this in Psalms 68:18. These gifts are also for the rebellious. These gifts are for all people in Acts 1:8 Jesus gave the commission to the Apostles just before He ascended to heaven. The gifts are in Ephesians 4:11-12 He gave apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; all for the ministry for the perfecting of the saints. For the work of the ministry for the edifying of the body of Christ for all people. It is the gift to mankind for their salvation, no better gift can be given to man.

    He that descended, when Jesus died, He was dead for three days. Jesus descended into death, and the grave, and because He had no sin, they had no power over Him. The first Adam through his disobedience brought sin and death to mankind, Jesus the second Adam through His obedience brought life.

    If there were those whom Jesus brought with Him when He resurrected, I would think it would be David but in Acts 2:29 and Acts 2:34 David is dead and buried and has not ascended to heaven. This earth is our home and our reward we do not go to heaven. We are heirs according to the promise, Galatians 3:26-29, Genesis 12:7, Genesis 13:5 it is forever, and Romans 4:13 the whole earth.

    Rev. 5:10 Psalms 37:9,22,34 This earth is where we will be not heaven.

    God bless you, brother,

    RLW
  • Oseas - In Reply - 8 months ago
    What does the Word of GOD say? The Word is GOD, self-executable. By the way, GOD calleth those things which be not as though they were-understand? Romans 4:17 and Hebrews 4:3. Take a look.

    In my vision, and I'm sure of this, the day of Christ's return is the day 1.335 - Daniel 12:12. GOD said: 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Why GOD said that? Exactly 75 days after the END of the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:27, and 45 days after the END of the Abomination of Desolation.

    The question is: How to know by the calendar what day the day 1335 will fall on? Impossible, for now. Anyway, get ready, because it's very close.

    GOD BLESS YOU, AND ALL
  • S Spencer - 9 months ago
    The Gospel preached to Abraham, for our sake.

    Romans 4:19-25.

    And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

    He staggered not at the PROMISE of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

    And being fully persuaded that, what he had PROMISED, he was able also to perform.

    And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

    NOW IT WAS NOT WRITTEN FOR HIS SAKE ALONE, that it was imputed to him;

    BUT FOR US ALSO, TO WHOM IT SHALL BE IMPUTED, if we BELIEVE ON HIM THAT RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD;

    Who was delivered for OUR OFFENCES, and was raised again for OUR JUSTIFICATION.

    Galatians 4:28

    Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of PROMISE.

    Galatians 3:29

    And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Galatians 3:16-19.

    Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

    For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by PROMISE.

    Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

    CONCLUSION

    Galatians 3:27-29.

    For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Genesis 22:18.

    God bless.
  • David0921 - In Reply - 10 months ago
    Thank you for that explanation Chris.

    But I think we understand Romans 4 in regards to Abraham differently.

    First let me say my understanding is that the translation from the Hebrew to English here could have been done somewhat better; but I do not feel qualified to get into that.

    Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth{belief BECAUSE God has saved us}on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith{that is Christ's faith, Christ Himself} is counted for righteousness.

    Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have believed{belief BECAUSE God has saved us}in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the FAITH OF CHRIST, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

    All True Believers throughout time are justified, i.e. saved by the faithfulness of Christ; NOT OUR FAITH. Our faith is a GIFT of God and is the RESULT of our Salvation and Justification; it is not the CAUSE nor the REASON.

    And that was the case for Abraham and all Old Testament True Believers.
  • Chris - In Reply - 10 months ago
    I believe David0921, that you have understood me correctly to a point. However, I'm not saying that Israel's salvation (a yet appointed time in the future), those who were faithful to the Lord was based on their works (i.e. obedience to the Law, sacrificial offerings, etc.), but that salvation would come to them (looking forward) by the merits of Christ's Death, just as for us post-Cross.

    When I said 'works based', I didn't mean that they would be saved by their law-keeping, etc., for nothing they or we could ever do, would secure redemption. They only did what was required of them by God (which was based solely on works yet should have caused them to cleave to God trusting in Him alone). Were they saved by their works? If they were, then there was no need for Jesus' Coming. But those works (obedience, sacrifice) brought them into a standing before God, where the Blood of Christ could retrospectively be applied to them; these who had no knowledge of such a Redeemer, but only knowing sin & cast upon God's Mercies for the covering of that sin until their redemption (salvation). Hebrews 9:15, 'the called only received the promise'.

    I don't know whether that explains it better, but your quote, "Salvation is by Grace alone" seems to not take into account what takes place before salvation is granted: how a person's life is directed, how & when the Gospel comes to him, or the drawing in by the Father ( John 6:44). For us, we don't consider this as Works, only when we try to add to or replace the Grace of God. Jews weren't adding to their future salvation; they only did what was required of them; and God knowing their hearts would apply the True Sacrifice. See Romans 4:1-5: righteousness that was imputed to Abraham. Why? Because he believed God, having hope, trusting His Word, without calling upon his works. Likewise, to all OT Israel who placed their trust & hope in God were marked for salvation, without works - unlike those who disobeyed or trusted in their works.
  • Oseas - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 10 months ago
    Hello, GiGi

    Greetings in Christ JESUS

    Thank you for your reply, I really enjoyed your post and hearing from you.



    The subject is very profound evidently, however, as Paul Apostle did say, "our faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of GOD; we speak the wisdom of GOD in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which GOD ordained before the world unto our glory- 1 Corinthians 2:5&7. Our Lord JESUS promised saying: Unto every one that has shall be given, and he shall have abundance: ...

    I like to meditate deeply in the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD( John 1:1), and to deceipher the biblical enigmas. The psalmist said: I will bend my ear to a parable, with a lyre(harp) I will solve my riddle.

    In my view, Genesis is a GOD's Plan of RESTORATION of all things( Acts 3:18-26), revealed to Moses around 2500 years after Adam, or after two and half GOD's Days working in His creation. By the way, around 4000 years after Adam(end of fourth Day), our GOD was still working:JESUS, the EXPRESS IMAGE of GOD, said:My Father worketh hitherto, and I work- John 5:17KJV. What was the work of JESUS? To fulfill LITERALLY Gen.1:26-27:

    26 And GOD said, Let US make man(MANY) in OUR image, after OUR likeness: and let THEM have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing UPON the earth.---> By the way, compare with Revelation 11:15 to 18 Here, our Lord JESUS still was in the BOSOM of the Father- John 1:18The question, you know, is that our GOD "calleth those things which be not as though they were"- Romans 4:17. Only now has the sixth GOD's Day arrived, so, only from now on will Genesis 1:26-27 be fulfilled LITERALLY( Luke 20:35-36) AS A PROPHECY. Romans 8:18-25 explain better. In my understand, Adam is a human gender.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 10 months ago
    Hi Jema.

    Thanks for replying.

    You said your faith is in Christ's sacrifice for your sin's. and that's where it should be.

    Abram believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

    He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; Romans 4:20.

    In Genesis 15:6-18 God made an unconditional promise to Abraham and performed it alone.

    The ritual that constitutes the covenant where they cut these animals in half and walk between them together and if one renege on the covenant what happened to the animals would happen to that person.

    God cannot lie so he was protecting Abraham when he entered the covenant alone.

    Issac was Abraham's heir and Abraham knew that God keeps his promises and he knew that God would have to raise him from the dead to keep his promises.

    God is Love but he is also a righteous judge. There is no where in scripture it says God saves us by his love. It says God so loved the world He provided us a savior and that savior was his Son. John 3:16.

    The bible teaches us the wages of sin is death and the gift of God through Christ is eternal life. Romans 6:20-23.

    The lost sinner's heart is energized by the ( Everlasting evil Spirit of this unrepentant world that is being held back by restraint of the Holyspirit.

    I believe in hell and those who go there will be tormented.

    Weeping and gnashing of teeth. Unquenchable fire.

    There would have to be an awareness of pain and agony to Weep and Nash teeth.

    And "Unquenchable fire" is unnecessary if it's unquenchable for no one.

    Matthew 22:13

    Psalm 112:10.

    The bible describes hell as a place of torment.

    You have to be awake to be tormented.

    God bless.
  • Redfox007 - 10 months ago
    I read the question? about our meeting with Jesus outside the City. What I find feasible is where the mention of the Jews which went to Jesus, left the city for Him outside. I find this is referring to our Salvation is by leaving the "Law" which was in effect in the time before Jesus resurrected to defeat Death. But, once He overcame Death by fulfilling the Law, as Paul has said before, The Law was written for man, by man. so it is not effective upon us. Now we have the New Laws which Jesus presented.

    Romans 8:2chapter context similar meaning copy save

    For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    Romans 4:15chapter context similar meaning copy save

    Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 11 months ago
    Part w

    Romans 4: 16 "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all."

    4:20- 5:2 "He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that; what He had promised, He was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

    Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom ot shall be imputed, if we believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised for our justification."

    Therefore bring justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into the grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God."

    Hebrews 11 speaks of the faith that counts towards righteousness to all who believe God, as being the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen. (vs. 1) For by it (faith) the elders obtained a good report (by God). (vs 2).

    Then this chapter goes on to list many of the patriarchs and Old Testament saints who were justified by faith that counted to them for righteousness, telling how they demonstrated their faith.

    Vs. 39-40 goes on to say "And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided better things for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

    These chapters tell us that anyone who is counted righteous before God in either the Old or New Testament, are so deemed so by faith, not by the law. Anyone who believes in the true God is justified before Him through grace by faith.

    I think that verse 40 is really beautiful, that these OT saints did not receive what was promised in an earthly way (being earthly, it was imperfect)

    see part 3
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 12 months ago
    Abrahamic Covenant.

    Part 3.

    Centuries after Abraham died, the children of Israel took possession of the land under Joshua's leadership ( Joshua 21:43). At no point in history, though, has Israel controlled all of the land God had specified. There remains, therefore, a final fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant that will see Israel occupying their God-given homeland to the fullest extent. The fulfillment will be more than a matter of geography; it will also be a time of holiness and restoration (see Ezekiel 20:40-44 and 36:1-37:28).

    The Abrahamic Covenant also promised many descendants ( Genesis 12:2). God promised that the number of Abraham's children would rival that of "the dust of the earth" ( Genesis 15:16). Nations and kings would proceed from him ( Genesis 17:6). It is significant that the promise was given to an aged, childless couple. But Abraham "did not waver through unbelief" ( Romans 4:20), and his wife Sarah "considered him faithful who had made the promise" ( Hebrews 11:11). Abraham was justified by his faith ( Genesis 15:6), and he and his wife welcomed Isaac, the son of promise, into their home when they were 100 and 90 years old, respectively ( Genesis 21:5).

    God reiterates the Abrahamic Covenant to Isaac and to his son Jacob, whose name God changes to Israel. The great nation is eventually established in the land where Abraham had dwelled. King David, one of Abraham's many descendants, is given the Davidic Covenant ( 2 Samuel 7:12-16), promising a "son of David" who would one day rule over the Jewish nation-and all nations-from Jerusalem. Many other Old Testament prophecies point to the blessed, future fulfillment of that promise (e.g., Isaiah 11; Micah 4; Zechariah 8).

    See Part 4.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Did Israel faithlessness void God's promises to Israel?

    Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

    Paul is asking if there is someone without faith, shall their lack of faith cancel out the faithfulness of God?

    Paul answers that in vs 4 God forbid:

    Israel's failures doesn't void out the promises of God.

    God's promise to send Israel the redeemer was not voided by their wilful disobedience and rejection.

    All his promises for the future of the nation will be fulfilled to his glory in spite of their unbelief. This is the unconditional covenant God made with Abraham.

    Here's a few more verses causes people to believe the Church is the new Israel.

    Galatians 3:28-29.

    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Romans 2:28-29

    "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

    But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    Now these verses is not talking about an ethnic group.

    Paul gives us the subject of the matter in Romans 3:1.

    "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?"

    Now here is where Paul was actually contrasting the Jews and the law, and the promise by faith of Jesus Christ.

    Colossians 2:11-12.

    This contrast the belief that righteousness came by the outwardly circumcised jew and the circumcision of the heart, in the spirit,

    In other words Abraham was given the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith before he was circumcised.

    Romans 4:11-13.

    So Jew and Israel is not always used synonymous in the scripture.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Six things determined upon Daniel's people and the holy city.

    Part 4

    To make reconciliation for iniquity

    Reconciliation is an element of salvation that refers to the results of the atonement, to coat or cover, Isaiah 61:10 Rev. 3:4 Rev. 16:15, iniquity is guilt, crookedness, twistedness, perverseness, that which is not straight or upright, and moral distortion in the dark.

    Colossians 1:20-22 Isaiah 53:5-6 Isaiah 53:11 Ephesians 2:16 Titus 2:14 Romans 4:7 2 Romans 5:10-11 2 Corinthians 5:18-19 Colossians 1:19-22

    The word reconcile means to bring back to a former state of harmony, Jesus reconciled both Jew and Gentile unto God in one body by the cross and now through Jesus we both Jew and Gentile have access by one Spirit unto the Father, no more strangers or foreigners but fellow citizens. Making reconciliation for iniquity concerns our involvement in the work of salvation. God has reconciled himself to us and empowered us by his Spirit to reconcile ourselves to God and one another.

    To bring in everlasting righteousness.

    Everlasting, no end, long duration, antiquity, futurity, forever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, continuous existence. Righteousness, God's attribute, justice, mercy, loving-kindness, in conformity to the demands of the covenant, and according to God's will, fair and balanced.

    Isaiah 61:10-11 Hebrews 8:12 Romans 3:21-26 Romans 5:17-21 1 Corinthians 1:30 2 Corinthians 5:21 1 Peter 2:24

    Everlasting righteousness was what our Lord manifested in His sinless life. Jesus by His blood entered in once into the holy place not made by hands having obtained eternal redemption, everlasting, and in Jesus we have everlasting righteousness and salvation, through faith, given by grace from God, by the blood of the Lamb freely offered for us. We have no righteousness apart from Jesus Christ.

    See Part 5
  • Chris - In Reply on Matthew 3 - 1 year ago
    Page 2.

    Fourthly, the Ten Commandments were given to Israel & were binding upon them. Some of their objectives were:

    a. to reveal the Holiness of the Eternal God to His people, Israel: Leviticus 19:2; Leviticus 20:7-8.

    b. to set Israel apart as distinct from all the other nations: Exodus 19:5.

    c. to reveal man's sinfulness: Galatians 3:19. Although the Law is "holy, just & good ( Romans 7:12), it did not provide salvation for the nation of Israel; and it cannot provide salvation to anyone who wants to or tries to keep the Law. No one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin ( Romans 3:20; Acts 13:38-39).

    d. to show to humanity that not one person can fully keep the Law but everyone falls short of God's Standard of Holiness. Realizing that, should cause us to cast ourselves upon a Merciful God for His Forgiveness. When Jesus came, He fulfilled the requirements of the Law completely and by His death fully paid the penalty for their breaking it ( Galatians 3:24; Romans 10:4). Therefore, by His Obedience, He was qualified to be the accepted Sacrifice for all mankind, for all of our sins ( Hebrews 10:10-12). If Jesus failed in fully keeping the Law, He would have been disqualified as a Savior - all mankind would be forever stuck in the quagmire of their sins & hell would be the destiny. But He was raised from the dead to show His Father's acceptance, our justification & deliverance ( Romans 4:23-25).

    I hope you can see Ani, that even though there was nothing wrong with the Law, even keeping the Sabbath by Israel, anyone who puts themselves under the Law (i.e. to find forgiveness or acceptance by God by it), is doomed to fail. Our Rest - continual rest (Sabbath) is now found in Jesus & not in Law-keeping & we can only be subject now to the Holy Spirit who enables us to fulfil both the spirit of the Law & finding the true rest in Christ Jesus ( 2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Romans 8:1-4).
  • Alex1939 - In Reply on Romans 4 - 1 year ago
    Hi Bobby Gbu...Blessed is the man whom God will not impute sins...Thats them that have been bornagain via his seed the word which initiates...Faith a spritual pregnancy...That results in a baby Christ the H.G. that Child of Promise...It was Faith that initiated Sarahs Pregnancy even tho she was pass age as also Abraham was like 90 yrs old ...Too old to produce a Child.

    But with the New Covenant ( by his blood ) there is also a Child involved...Which is the H.G. that Child of Promise...Thats y Jesus is saying that which is Born of the Spirit is Spirit...Thats y John said,..little Children your sins are forgiven for his Name sake... 1st John 2:12..Which is the Israel of God... Spirits...The H.G. Comes in his Name thus no SIN IS IMPUTED.

    When Jesus said its FINISHED...When he was on the Cross he was initiating a New Covenant in his blood...Thus there is absolutely no more works we can do...He did it all...Under the old covenant we cd do works ( the law )...But there is no more works under this New Covenant...All of our sins are forgiven for his Name Sake the H.G. the Child of Promise...Remember the H.G. that Child of Promise comes in his name...The Father will send the H.G. in my name impling he is the father of the H.G. and the H.G. will regenerate himself in humanity after the book is opened...Thats when the woman gets Pregnant after the Book is opened...Thus there is gonna be an Israel of God...What Abraham did on the Earth via Faith is gonna be done in heaven and earth via the seed of Christ Jesus...The contents of that Book he wrote with his own blood..

    But now under this New Covenant we birth a baby Christ via Jesus seed his words...Thats y there is no sin imputed simply b/c of the Children of Promise the H.G. which is his name sake ... John 1 :13...Which were born NOT by the will of blood nor of the will of man nor of flesh,but only by the will of God...These are the Children of PROMISE...The H.G...Thus there is no sin imputed to them that are bornagain.
  • Chris - In Reply on Romans 4 - 1 year ago
    Hello Bobby. In Romans 4:8, the Apostle Paul is quoting directly from Psalm 32:1,2, where in that Psalm, David is rejoicing in receiving God's Forgiveness (possibly this Psalm is a sequel to Psalm 51).

    Then in Romans 4:1-8, Paul gives an example of Abraham who was justified before God (i.e. declared righteous) without him having to work to obtain that right standing before God. If Abraham had any goodness within him that could secure God's Approval, then he would have to pat himself on the back, for God would give him no credit (loosely translated from verse 2). But as Genesis 15:6 states, "And he (Abram) believed in the LORD; and he (God) counted it to him for righteousness".

    So Paul uses these illustrations to show that our righteousness before God can only come by faith alone in Him and nothing else. That being the case, how "blessed" are those who are completely forgiven, sins cast aside, and we now stand before the Lord uncondemned. When the Lord does not "impute" sin to the one made righteous by faith, that sin which was removed can no longer be reckoned or charged to his 'account' (i.e. not imputed). This of course, does not give the saved sinner liberty to continue to sin knowing he is made righteous before God, but now being saved from sin's penalty & God's Judgement, he by the power of the Holy Spirit within will now live unto God, dealing swiftly with any sin that surfaces. As 2 Corinthians 5:15 states, "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." "...we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul" ( Hebrews 10:39).

    We are indeed so blessed to be in this glorious position of being the beloved of God, accepted, uncondemned. Those thoughts should always be in the forefront of our hearts & minds when sin comes knocking at our door.
  • T Levis - In Reply on Romans 4 - 1 year ago
    1John 1:9, Ezekiel 33:11-20

    Hopefully these are helpful
  • Bobby cooper on Romans 4 - 1 year ago
    What does Romans 4:8 mean?
  • Ryan W - In Reply - 1 year ago
    It goes back to what I keep saying lol. I don't understand why everyone doesn't get this: 2 Tim 3:16. But what comes before it?

    What comes before chapter 3? Chapter 2, and more specifically, 2 Tim 2:15. If we're going to study any of scripture, we must rightly divide it. In other words, we must study ***in light of the revelation of Jesus Christ, according to the mystery***.

    James 2 and Romans 4 are perfect examples. James 1:1 he is specifically talking to the Israel of God (the believing remnant that will "come out" in Jacob's Trouble).

    They "contradict each other" and that's perfectly ok. Why? Because both passages are written to different people during different dispensations. James 2: written to the remnant during Jacob's Trouble (the start of the dispensation of the kingdom) and written **for** our learning (but not our doctrine) and Romans 4: written to us in this dispensation of the grace of God (written to us and is our doctrine because we're under the mystery, the dispensation of the grace of God.)

    James is not apart of the Body of Christ. Nor is the writer of Hebrews. (Paul didn't write Hebrews - Heb 2:1).

    I don't understand why everyone is trying to correct me on something I've stated multiple times now.

    Me: 2 Tim 3:16 all scripture is for us but we have to rightly divide it 2 Tim 2:15

    You: Yeah but all scripture is for us.

    Me: ....yeah I know. You're at the half way mark. Not the finish line. I'm trying to help you open your eyes to truly understanding scripture. It would be wise to inquire the truth God's opened my eyes too. I'm trying to shew you a more excellent way: God's way, how he wants us to go to scripture today.
  • D W L - 1 year ago
    Ron - Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

    Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

    You must be born again, to know Jesus personally will help understand.

    I am told there is no speed limit in the state of Montana. If you drive 55 or 85 its not unlawful.
  • Free - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Dear Donna, it's so incredibly true. For at once the heavenly multitudes and Jesus Him Self come to guard His newborn child. Tell everywhere, anytime and to all ppl, that's your testimony! It comes faith in that, if possible, can u save others. It does well to younr next In any case.

    God bless us all in Jesus name. After Gods will.

    Romans 4:7-8 love u in Christ
  • Free - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Dear God Father in heaven, you who have created all things and know all things. Fill us with Your peace and joy Lord, so that we always may praise You God Almighty. After Your will. We pray in the name of Jesus. Amen Romans 4:7-8


Viewing page: 1 of 9

  Next Discussion Page >

1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9  

 

Do you have a Bible comment or question?


Please Sign In or Register to post comments...