Discuss Romans 2 Page 4


Romans 2 KJV Bible discussions
 
  • T. Levis - In Reply on Genesis 19 - 1 year ago
    2Peter 3:9, Exodus 34:6, Numbers 14:18, Genesis 19:37, Deuteronomy 23:3,

    Ecclesiastes 7:8, Psalms 86:15, Romans 2:4, 1Corinthians 4:5, Ruth 1:16,22, Ruth 4:11-22, Luke 3:23-38, note Luke 3:32

    Psalms 130:3,4, Isaiah 54:8,

    LORD help us all be faithful
  • T. Levis - In Reply on 1 Thessalonians 4 - 1 year ago
    Tribulation definition online: "a cause of great trouble or suffering"

    Deuteronomy 4:29,30,31, 1Samuel 26:24, Matthew 13:20-21, John 16:33, Acts 14:22, Romans 5:3, Romans 8:35-39, Romans 12:12, 2Corinthians 1:3-5, 1Thessalonians 3:4, 2Thessalonians 1:6, Revelation 1:9, Revelation 2:9,10,22,

    There seems to be a difference between tribulation & The great Tribulation,

    Matthew 24:21, Romans 2, Revelation 7:14,

    Matthew 24:3-51, Mark 13:4-37,
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 1 year ago
    I see that both of your questions are about firstborn. I was always under the assumption that it was the firstborn child of mothers who were still giving birth (in other words just children) that died; of human and animal offspring. I suppose that could be conjecture on my part. Pharoah was kind of the last standout in a way; it doesn't appear that in the Exodus he personally went all the way out into the Red Sea and perished with the rest of his army.

    As to the second question; you will find that repeated with Jacob and Esau as well. I am not aware of a firstborn son having a scriptural demand; but a cultural one as to obtaining the greatest blessings. Apparently Reuben and Manasseh had the same thing happen to them. God did a lot to turn things around from what was accepted as tradition; He looks on the hearts of men not outward appearances. He brings blessings and curses in regard to many things such as childbirth; results of war; food resources and other things based on obedience or disobedience. He has used women to prophesy in Judges (in that case to demonstrate that the victor in Sisera would be a woman) and Deborah and other women to prophesy and praise God. He has used children such as Samuel to rebuke the evil house of Eli and his sons (which God asked him to do the FIRST time he heard His voice audibly). He has used a donkey to rebuke a madman prophet Baalam who was able to see an angel of God which the man couldn't detect. He chose a sheepherder to be the King of Israel; the last of all the sons who his father had to be prompted to appear. And the ceremonial laws were preempted by the Divinity of Christ; who is the "Lord of the Sabbath" ( Mark 2:27-28). God is not a respecter of persons ( Romans 2:11). There is even a verse where women who didn't have male relatives asked for part of the inheritance ( Numbers 27:2-7). And one where those who ridiculed Moses Ethiopian wife were dealt with ( Numbers 12:1). Bible culture shock!
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 1 year ago
    I'm sorry if you think that I've responded to you in an unacceptable way. This is a general discussion section, where comments of various types are presented, so one should be prepared to defend their beliefs, if they wish to do so. Personally, I love questions: they make me think, pray, search the Scriptures for the answer, as well as for the knowledge I can build up on.

    Just to answer the one question you posed: "Just tell me the book, chapter and verse where God changed his mind and took away the day he gave his children." The Law, including the Sabbath, still holds true for Israel, from the first day it was given till now - therefore there can never be a verse to rescind that Law for THEM, i.e. they will be judged by the Law ( Romans 2:12). But for those of us not under the Law (both saved Jew & Gentile) & have found redemption in Christ Jesus, that Law that only brought condemnation & death to those under it ( 2 Corinthians 3:6-17) was entirely done away with (verses 11-13) & has no application or power to the one IN Christ. If the believer should say that I'm in Christ & also want to keep the Law to be right with God, he has fallen from grace ( Galatians 5:4).

    I'll stop here - just wanted to answer your question. You may not care for the answer, & that's fine, but when we take in the whole Word of God & not a single verse, the proper understanding of a matter can be appreciated.
  • T. Levis - In Reply on 1 Corinthians 6:13 - 1 year ago
    Reading, Matthew 25:31-46, Matthew 7, Romans 2:8,

    "believer" Mark 16:16-18, Luke 8, John 1:12, John 6:64, John 7:5, John 12:23-50, John 17, Romans 4, 1Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 11:6, James 2, James 2:19, Romans 1, through Romans 2, Romans 6,

    * 1Peter 4, 1Peter 4:17,

    Hope these are helpful
  • Chris - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Page 3.

    If the Spirit speaks to one to keep Sabbath as a rest day, then to that person they should abide - but to another, the Sabbath was not given to Gentiles & any day can be for rest & also for worship ( Romans 14:5,6 & the whole chapter).

    Gentile? If you have no Jewish heritage, then you fall under the Gentile category. If the Gentile has not received the Law, he is a law unto himself ( Romans 2:14,15). Of course, all peoples are under governmental law, unless they're hidden away from society. But for both the Jewish Christian & Gentile Christian, the old Law has no more application or binding, for we are now subject to the Law of the Spirit. I don't believe that anyone with the Holy Spirit within them would ever be led to murder, commit fornication, & other sins. If a believer does sin, then he's going against the Spirit's ministry & appealing to his flesh (& this is why Paul spoke of crucifying the flesh ( Galatians 5:24,25)).

    Jew? When I wrote, 'Jewish convert', I meant that such a person still retains his Jewish heritage/bloodline, but has relinquished all that kept him bound to his faith (Judaism), finding forgiveness of sins, new life & liberty through the promised Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Jews today still await the Messiah, but Jesus came, but they refused Him & crucified Him ( John 1:10-14). But the day will come when they will acknowledge Jesus ( Zechariah 12:10,11; Revelation 1:7,8). People have in the past become Jewish proselytes, embracing Judaism, its Laws & Practises ( Exodus 12:48,49; Acts 2:10; Acts 6:5; Acts 13:43). I hope that I've covered all your questions; if you have other questions feel free to start a new thread. Blessings.
  • Giannis - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Dear brother. Our salvation is not a result or a wage for our good lives, it is a gift from God through the sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ. To understand that think that all people have sins since we are human and have weak nature . So God has to convict us no matter how good or bad people we are, just the penalty differs. But Jesus paid that penalty on the cross once (the wage of sin is death) as a represantative for all people of all times so now everybody who believes and accepts that sacrifice is freed from God's conviction (apostle Paul deals with that in ROMANS 2-8). But (and here is where the misunderstanding about grace and work comes in) once you accept the salvation God offered you and start walking your christian life, you HAVE TO HAVE a good life obeying God's laws written in the Gospel and do good things (works) so that you keep the salvation that you once accepted, because it can be lost, AND transform youself (your character) so to become similar to Jesus', that is God's. How do i loose my salvation? By doing sins and do not repent (the wage of sin is death). Also by not doing good things (works) which again is a sin {see James 4:17). It is not that the good things we do will save us, it is always the grace of God, but they show what we have inside (apostle James deals with that in his epistle). Example given, if i say i have love then how do i show that? By not being interested in other peoples needs and give some help? If that is the case then two things may have happened, either i dont care and i am outside God's life and salvation or i have not understood who is the God i beleived in. Wrote too much, hope didnt confuse you.

    Have to say that for this topic various churches have various beliefs.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hey Benjamin,

    I agree with S Spencer and Noel, for those of us who have heard of Jesus and are called and have accepted Jesus as our savior the answer would be no.

    I would like to give my understanding; God is a loving God Zephaniah 3:17 God will help and strengthen us Isaiah 41:10 God is just and upright Deuteronomy 32:4 and God is love and merciful Ephesians 2:4.

    There are millions of people who lived and died before Jesus first came, and millions who have lived and died since who have never heard who Jesus is and what He offers. What happens to them? Everyone who is alive today and all who have lived in the past has the knowledge of good and evil thanks to the first Adam.

    The white throne judgment many teach is only for the lost and unrighteous, my understanding is different. In Revelation 20:11-15 all the rest of the dead is judged, small and great and the books were open, and they were judged from the things written in the books, according to their works. In verse 15 it says this, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire". Along with other scriptures, my understanding is there were some names in the book of life.

    God only knows, some scripture gives a clue, People under the law being judged by the law and those who do by nature the things contained in the law not under the law (judged from the things written in the books) Romans 2:12-15, and if the white throne judgment is for lost only, how do we understand these verses, Daniel 12:2 Matthew 25:32-46 John 5:28-29 Acts 24:14-15.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hi Brother Dan.

    Pt. 1

    What I think is being missed in Galatians 3:29. Is that it actually says the opposite of the way you take it.

    It says "you are Abraham's seed, and heirs, ""ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE"". Not law!! and not nationality.

    The Promise spoken of here, "the covenant of God in Christ" was given to Abraham 430 years before the Law. Galatians 3:17. and before Israel was a nation.

    So Galatians. 3:29. Is not saying you are Israelites it's saying you are children of Promise as we see in Galatians 4:28. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

    I think the confusion is when often you call members of the church Israelites citing Galatians 3:29. and

    Romans 2:29.

    But you must consider

    Galatians 3:28. "THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YE ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS."

    So when you revisit Romans 9 and take on Romans 9:6-8. "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

    Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

    That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: "but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

    This is not making a distinction between Ishmael and Issac.

    It's a distinction between

    1) National Israel "The broken off branch who were blinded and who you are attempting to be grafted into " and 2) Messianic Israel who's joint members of the Church and children of the promise.

    Have you noticed they all weren't broken off?

    Romans 11:17. AND "IF SOME" OF THE BRANCHES BE BROKEN OFF, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

    Romans 11:7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; BUT THE ELECTION HATH OBTAINED IT, and the rest were blinded

    Here's why they're broken off.

    Romans 9:31-32.

    c pt2
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hi Brother Spencer,

    Thank you for your response. You made a long 3 part response, with great scripture! But your additional scripture does not change or weaken the scripture that I presented.

    The main topic was the 10 Commandments, and secondary topic was the analogy of the Gentiles (wild olive tree) being grafted into the Israelites (cultivated olive tree).

    I try to remain open minded and adjust as the Spirit may move me. I believe the scripture speaks for itself on these two topics. The chapter Romans 11 is speaks specifically about the Gentiles being grafted into this cultivated olive tree, and becoming Israelites Galatians 3:29. We become Abrahams seed! Paul states this fact again in Romans 2:29 we become Jews inwardly.

    You put forth your argument against the Gentiles becoming Israelites and include scripture found in other areas directed at the 3 different/separate groups. The Church, the Gentiles, and Israelites. I agree they have been and CAN continue to be separate. But, the analogy that Paul uses regarding the grafting of the two olives threes - shows that Christ changed this; by keeping the original tree intact, not making a new tree. (You suggested different - we disagree) Jesus Christ is the tree root of the original tree, and the original branches are the Israelites. Paul is stating in scripture that Jesus removes the defective branches (unbelieving Jews), keeping the branches of the believing Jews intact, and then grafting in the believing Gentiles into the tree. In essence, bringing the believing Jews, and believing Gentiles, into ONE BODY - the CHURCH. I hope now, this makes sense to you.

    Next, God originally gave the 10 Commandments to the Israelites. Now that we believers have accepted Jesus Christ, and have been adopted into the Church (Olive Tree) we are partakers of God's salvation, along with His Commands - we are treated the same now as the Israelites. No better - no worse!

    Read and Believe!
  • S Spencer. - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Part 3.

    Romans 2:24-29.

    Verse 25. For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Do you see the Dilemma if you take the verse the way you understood it? If we are Jews the way you described it and can't keep the law then our circumcision becomes uncircumcision if we deny the grace of God and put our trust in the flesh! We also would be broken off!

    You are attempting to graft into the broken branch rather the olive tree!

    Verse 29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    This comes at the new birth of the believer and ministered by the Spirit, Not the letter. Its obeying the commandment written on our heart not the letter written on stone. And this comes after Salvation Not to obtain Salvation.

    Galatians 5:1-6.

    There is the groups mentioned in scripture and they're all distinct. Jews, Gentiles and the Church of God.

    1 Corinthians 10:32. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

    God bless."
  • S Spencer. - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Brother Dan.

    Part 3.

    Romans 2:24-29.

    Verse 25. For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Do you see the Dilemma if you take the verse the way you understood it? If we are Jews the way you described it and can't keep the law then our circumcision becomes uncircumcision if we deny the grace of God and put our trust in the flesh! We also would be broken off!

    You are attempting to graft into the broken branch rather the olive tree!

    Verse 29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    This comes at the new birth of the believer and ministered by the Spirit, Not the letter. Its obeying the commandment written on our heart not the letter written on stone. And this comes after Salvation Not to obtain Salvation.

    Galatians 5:1-6.

    There is the groups mentioned in scripture and they're all distinct. Jews, Gentiles and the Church of God.

    1 Corinthians 10:32. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

    God bless.
  • S Spencer. - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Brother Dan.

    Part 2.

    Romans 11:10-32.

    There is a lot here in this portion of scripture, for one you will see there is two groups here, Us/The Church and Israel.

    Take notice of what we are being grafted into! Is it Israel? No, Israel is a branch broken off because of unbelief.

    You see the concept in John and Mathews. I am the vine true/genuine vine in John 15:1-12. and Mathews 7:13-23. opposed to Israel in Jeremiah 2:21.

    Notice Romans 11:25

    For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    Again, salvation wasn't to come by the law where the Gentiles were foreigners, the law was to show the world they needed a savior that's what God promised Abraham.

    Genesis 22:18.

    SO, WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW?

    Galatians 3:18-29.

    This puts the verse you gave, " Galatians 3:29." in its proper perspective.

    More References:

    Romans 7:4-7.

    Romans 7:8-13.

    2 Corinthians 3:6-11.

    You mentioned Romans 2:29. Let's look at it.

    You should take it from Romans 2:11-29. to put it in its context.

    Romans 2:11-16.

    Notice Paul says, "FOR WHEN THE GENTILES, WHICH HAVE NOT THE LAW, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:" Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

    Even before the law was given, we had light in the world that bared witness of right and wrong! (The law put a death sentence on us. Romans 7:8-10.)

    Continuing.

    Romans 2:17-24.

    Context: vs 17. "Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,"

    This portion of scripture seems to label you as a hypocrite and blasphemer when you put your trust in being able to keep the law.

    See verses 24-29 in Part 3.
  • S Spencer. - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hi Brother Dan.

    Part 1 of ?

    Your quote:

    "Whatever Jesus/God spoke to the Israelites are also spoken to us Gentiles, and we are just as accountable to adhere to these commands today. Why? Because those of us in Christ are now Israelites and we were once Gentiles but the grafting process through Jesus Christ has changed us so that we have become Jews inwardly. Paul tells us below we are now of Abrahams seed." End quote.

    your reference scriptures are in Galatians 3:29. and Romans 2:29.

    Let's deal with the grafting in first.

    You would have to go to Romans 10 to put it into perspective.

    Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

    For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

    For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

    For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth. Romans 10:1-4.

    NOTE:

    Christ is the goal! the Law was given to bring Man to Christ. He said, "I didn't come to patch up an old garment, I came to give you a new garment." (The robe of his righteousness)

    Continuing-

    Look here in Romans 11:1-9.

    Notice verses 5-7.

    (Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise, grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise, work is no more work.

    What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded)

    verses 8-9.

    (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

    And David saith, let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

    We will come back to stumblingblock.

    see Part 2.
  • Bro dan - 2 years ago
    Brother Spencer,

    I'm replying to you here in a new thread as the other thread was getting quite long.

    We are in agreement that it is the Holy Spirit in us that makes it possible for us to live according to God's Commandments. This wonderful Spirit makes the impossible - possible! Amen.

    You continue to state that what was spoken to the Israelites are not applicable to us/Gentiles. The scriptures disagree. Whatever Jesus/God spoke to the Israelites are also spoken to us Gentiles, and we are just as accountable to adhere to these commands today. Why? Because those of us in Christ are now Israelites and we were once Gentiles but the grafting process through Jesus Christ has changed us so that we have become Jews inwardly. Paul tells us below we are now of Abrahams seed.

    Galatians 3:29

    "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

    Paul reaffirms that the Gentiles are now Jews inwardly.

    Romans 2:29

    "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

    Per the bible scripture the children of Israel (which Gentiles are after adoption) shall keep God's Commandments including observing the Sabbath throughout their generation for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever.

    Yes, we who are in Christ, are now Jews inwardly, and will want to keep all of God's Commandments, and again, we do so via God's Holy Spirit, not of our own accord. Amen.

    God Bless You!
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Romans 2 - 2 years ago
    BMW.

    Part 3.

    (3) There is a fundamental fact of human history. Humanity was created in the image of God ( Genesis 1:26-27). This does not have reference to the physical features of humankind, for God is not physical ( Matthew 16:17; John 4:24; Luke 24:39); rather, as noted above, it alludes to intangible qualities that were created resident in the spirit of the person. This aspect of human personality is what Paul called conscience. The English word derives from the Greek term, syneidesis, a compound term signifying "to know together." It reflects a common knowledge that human beings share with one another of a sense of religious and moral culpability.

    As one scholar noted: "According to Romans 2:14-15 conscience is innate and universal. It is not the product of environment, training, habit, race impression, or education, though it is influenced by all these factors" (Rehwinkel 1999, 136). The ancient Gentiles, therefore, were not judged by the same rule as the Jews, but they were not void of law and culpability. Elsewhere the matterhas been described in this way:

    [T]he threefold workings of the law, in that the guidance of their heart predisposes them to know the right, the testimony of their conscience bears witness with their heart that the right is preferable, and lastly, after the deed is done, their thoughts or inward reasonings accuse or excuse them according as their act has been wrong or right. These well-known psychological phenomena, observable among the Gentiles, are proof conclusive that they are not without law, with its power and privilege of justification (McGarvey and Pendleton n.d., 313).

    See part 4.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Romans 2 - 2 years ago
    BMW.

    Part 2.

    The Inward Law

    The ancient Gentiles were not judged by the same rule as the Jews due to the fact that the Hebrews had a written revelation from God (the law of Moses, and eventually the completed body of the Old Testament Scriptures), while the other nations did not; the Gentiles, therefore, were evaluated by a more general standard than the Jews. Paul wrote:

    Romans 2:14-16.

    From this text, as well as supplementary data, the following facts can be deduced:

    (1) While the Gentiles did not have a written law (e.g., the law of Moses) certainly on occasions they had communications from Jehovah (cf. Genesis 3:9; 4:6; 6:13ff; 12:1ff, etc.), and divine traditions surely were echoed across the centuries.

    (2) There is something "written within the heart," i.e., in the human psyche, that "by nature" (physis) urges one to do what he perceives to be right and refrain from what he feels to be wrong. It has been defined as the "natural sense of what is right and wrong" (Thayer 1958, 661). This moral sense cannot minutely define right and wrong, but it can initiate some broad and strong inclinations.

    This certainly is evidenced by the fact that Adam and Eve felt guilt after having eaten the forbidden fruit, even before confronted by God ( Genesis 3:7-10). "Condemned by their own consciences, they were ashamed and afraid to meet their benefactor and friend-an inevitable consequence of sin" (Campbell 1958, 32).

    "There is no witness so terrible-no accuser so powerful as conscience which dwells within us" (Sophocles). "Man's conscience is the oracle of God" (Lord Byron).

    See Part 3.
  • S Spencer on Mathew 3:10-11. - In Reply on Deuteronomy 25 - 2 years ago
    Hi

    Mathew 3:10-11.

    I would like to add one or two more things that I believe is to be very important. Whether by water baptism or baptism by the Holyspirit, is it evident in your life that spiritual baptism has taken place.

    You will run into 2 major groups engage on this topic. One group is those who believe you are saved by confessing Jesus and keeping the commandments. Some of this group believe you can lose your salvation. This group is bond to a work base religion.

    The other group believes "for by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    Even the faith you are being saved through is not your faith! it is a gift of God!

    You have nothing to offer God in terms of salvation! I hold this view.

    True baptism when you "GENUINELY" accept Christ as your savior there is production in your life that begins. You can't produce it or keep it from producing as you feed on the word.

    I will share a few by verses below and hopefully others can expand on them or add to.

    Notice Paul' he didn't have much to say about water baptism, but he had a lot to say about baptism by the Holyspirit.

    Romans 6:4.

    Romans 6:6-8.

    Romans 6:11.

    It does well to study all of Romans 6 to expand a little on "the production' of spiritual baptism.

    JOHNS BAPTISM.

    you can see a picture of this transition for the Jews drawn out for you by Paul in Romans 7:1-2. Read all.

    Now read Mathew 3:10-11.

    Israel was a natural branch that didn't bear fruit. Jeremiah 2:21. "Nor could it"

    Also read Mathew 21:42-44. and John 15:1-7.

    Now let's get back to our 2 groups.

    You have the 1st group I mentioned that put themselves in bondage as did Israel and despising the truth.

    believing in baptism outwardly but unbaptized inwardly.

    EXAMPLE: Romans 2:25-29.

    The 2nd group

    Philippians 3:3.

    Galatians 3:13.

    John 8:36.

    The outcome.

    1John 2:3.

    1 John 4:21.

    This Love cannot be produced by self.

    God bless.
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 2 years ago
    There are multiple ways to prove God exists. Our own human conscience proves that God exists. It is our human nature to know what is right and what is wrong. Even if we don't know God, or don't believe God, it is God in our conscience within each of us to reason right from wrong. How would we know right from wrong if not?

    Here is Paul explaining this in scripture:

    Romans 2:14-15

    For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;

    God Bless.
  • Rick - In Reply on Zechariah 13 - 2 years ago
    Larry For the wages or payment for sin broken fellowship is death, but the walk bu the spirit is life and peace

    matter what, and there is no respect of persons Romans 2:6-11y
  • Dr. Lyle Lee - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hi Alex; After reading what you wrote I agree that there is a spiritual Israel, the Apostle Paul wrote in Romans 2:29 all Christians are circumcised in their hearts and are Jews, meaning all people regardless of color or nationality, male or female, we are now the heirs of the promises of Abraham. Galatians 3:29 However, I do not agree that God has or ever will have a grandson, The Holy Ghost is God in the doctrine of the godhead Colossians 2:9 and all Christians are his children, not his grand children.
  • David - 2 years ago
    I am Amazed! The amount of conversation on this web site that focuses on hell and condemnation and what will happen if you don't believe is remarkably opposite of what attracted me to God. I am reminded of Romans 2:3+4

    especially 4 where it is the GOODNESS OF GOD that leads you to repentance which is a change of heart towards the

    one that did the good. I'm aware the Jesus taught about the consequences of unbelief but that was NOT all He talked

    or preached about. He taught of how God is a loving , forgiving, tender merciful, all knowing, graceful, and full of

    peace and life giving. He didn't dwell on the stuff of the enemy, when I've had the privilege of sharing Gods Word

    most of these lost already are in hell [figuratively speaking in their minds the darkness of unbelief] then you love

    them into the truth. 2 Corinthians 4:1-6 remember we plant and water in Love and God gives the increase also

    judge not for thou shalt be judged. I know some one now that BELIEVES if she makes a false move GOD WILL PUNISH

    HER and that's a lie, and she's born again! How can you reach out to others when your in a state of mental terror

    thinking any little error you'll be judged for that's torment not freedom in Christ. That's what others taught her

    is the way it is, somebodies got to be wrong and it isn't my Loving Father and that's the GOOD NEWS of FREEDOM

    BY JESUS CHRIST! First announcement of angels to Shepherds regarding His birth PEACE ON EARTH GOOD WILL

    TOWARDS MEN THIS IS GODS WILL. Last 1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men saved and to come to a knowledge

    of the truth. The word will is Thelema primary objective or desire! The enemies desire is the opposite he doesn't

    need help.
  • Earl Bowman - 2 years ago
    PROMISED ISRAEL

    In the Old Testament a gentile could become an Israelite by being circumcised in the flesh.

    TODAY a gentile becomes an Israelite by being circumcised in the heart.

    Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

    Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly: and circumcision is of the heart, in the spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but God.
  • Free - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Dear GiGi again. In Jesus Name i have experienced the opposite of what you say, for all eight years.

    If we follow The free will we have, and live in it, is from the dark ones. But its thru He have give us a free will and we NEED to pray " i dont want my free will " take it away dear Jesus! Those ppl who will follow Him need too crucify the flesh. And keep theyr tongue tied, and thoughts as well. We are on our way, and Learning from Him the Holy Spirit.

    Ill promised God I would read the scriptures for as long as I lived, and ill see many hidden meaning in Scripture today. But then That was a real pray after God Fathers hearth! :D And the day come when He open up the Scripture for me. The words was like fire and the letters moved around for a sec or two.

    And no flesh can be saved without Him

    John 15:5

    I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

    Soo those time i go and tell somthing like heavenly to other ppl, they fall short because they do not understand.

    And in that it comes arguing and all kinds of evil. Soo when ill sheer something here in web site. I do understand that some ppl can speculate and may not believe it is true. But i promise u its thru all of it.

    Romans 2:

    4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

    5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

    6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first,

    and further :p In Jesus Name
  • GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} "caught Up" on 1 Thessalonians 4:17 - 2 years ago
    Part III God's Great GRACE Departure

    B) Distinctions Between GREAT GRACE Departure and Second Coming continued

    The Second 'prophesied' Coming

    Rightly Divided 2 Timothy 2:15 From Things That DIFFER

    God's PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly 'Mystery!'

    1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!

    CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From Heaven! Ephesians 1:19-23 Colossians 1:18 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

    2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel, And With The Trump of God! 1 Thessalonians 4:16

    3) JESUS CHRIST, Who Is God, Will Bring With Him, those "asleep In JESUS," who Were With Him In Heaven! 2 Corinthians 5:6,8 Philippians 1:21,23 1 Thessalonians 4:13,14

    4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those asleep (in 3) First, and Then, we "which are alive and remain (which Is A Mystery)," will be changed/all "incorruptible, And Caught Up together (rapture) to meet The LORD in the air (Not all the way to the earth), in the twinkling of an eye!" 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 1 Corinthians 15:52-53

    5) CHRIST "Gathers His Body To HIMSELF, to Take them To Heaven" (Opposite of earth)... 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 1 Corinthians 15:49 2 Corinthians 12:2 2 Corinthians 5:1,2 Ephesians 1:3,20 Ephesians 2:6 Philippians 3:20 2 Timothy 4:18

    6) ...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body, By The Head Himself!... Romans 2:6,16 Romans 14:10-12 1 Corinthians 3:6-11 1 Corinthians 3:12-15, 1 Corinthians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 6:20 2 Corinthians 5:10 Ephesians 6:8 Colossians 3:24-25

    to be continued in:

    Part IV God's PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure!
  • David - 2 years ago
    Your Freedom Your Will Your Choice

    The one thing that attracted me years ago to the word was the Love of God shown by Jesus Christ, and in

    Romans 2:4 second half its the goodness of God that leadeth thee to repentance[ a change of mind leading to a change

    of heart]. According to 1 Timothy 2:2 Gods will is to have all men saved to be saved and to come to the knowledge of

    the truth. In John 3:16 which is familiar to most if not all of us, God so loved the world that he gave[it was his will to

    save his creation includes all men] his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have

    everlasting life. 17 he that believeth on him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already.

    The reason is stated next because they loved there own deeds or works which were wrong being blinded by Pride

    greed lust literally loved themselves at the expense many times of others lives that's evil. So don't tell me I'm

    doing anything wrong I've got everything I want so why should I change. They loved there deeds and are blinded by

    2 Corinthians 4:4 the god of this world still what you sew is what you reap and they are without excuse. 1 John 2:15+16

    can dim the Glow of Gods light in us if we allow it also be not quick to condemn

    or judge, we at one time were there. We plant and water in Love but Father gives the increase. Jesus Christ spent a lot more time teaching principles of our Fathers love and

    walking with God than the end result of unbelief because Gods desire is to have no one join or taken down by

    His Arch enemy. Weare indeed the preservers or the Salt until we are gathered together. Just some heart
  • Ronald L Whittemore - In Reply on John 21 - 2 years ago
    Earl,

    Sorry, it took me a while to study your posts. Scripture is clear; the lake of fire is real and it was prepared for Satan and his angels, Matthew 25:41. Those whose name is not in the book of life will be cast into this lake of fire, the second death, this is the death the saints will be spared. According to scripture we all will be judged and our reward will be given, good or bad according to our works Revelation 22:12. Each of us will have different rewards, some lights will be brighter than others, Daniel 12:2-3 and whether in the lake of fire, the punishments may be also judged accordingly.

    My understanding is we do not get a second chance for salvation after this life in this flesh, Hebrews 9:27. We have this, there are evil and good people that live and have lived and those who did not have a chance to hear of the word of God, this may show how they will be judged at the white throne judgment, Romans 2:12-15 (this is my understanding of this), but those who have heard and rejected it, Katy bar the door.

    I must humbly disagree, I am not in the lake of fire, we will be judged with fire, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. The Bible has symbolic wording but represents real things, people, kingdoms, etc. I am sorry I can't follow interpreting the scriptures by allegorizing all, I feel we turn all scripture into parables.

    RLW
  • Diane Taylor - In Reply on Job 3 - 2 years ago
    Hello GiGi, What I meant was that there is only one gospel that can save mankind today, and that is the gospel of grace ( Acts 20:24 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 That Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day. Appropriated by faith alone apart from the Mosaic law ( Romans 3:20,21) The gospel of grace and doctrines for the body of Christ, the Church, was a secret ( Romans 16:25, Ephesians 3: 1-11) hidden in the mind of God until revealed to the apostle Paul. In other words, between the time God called Abraham and the calling of the apostle Paul, there was no message of salvation to the Gentile world ( Ephesians 2:11,12). The gospel of grace is most clearly defined in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 " Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures: And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Paul's Gospel: The apostle Paul Holy Spirit inspired of course, repeatedly referred to the gospel of grace as "my gospel"( Romans 2:16, 16:25 Galatians 2:2,7: 2 Timothy 2:8) Paul could say this because the gospel of grace was in fact revealed to Paul alone and he was chosen by the ascended and risen Lord Himself to be the apostle of the Gentiles( Acts 9:15, Romans 11:13) These new revelations came approximately10 years after Pentecost ( Galatians 1:1,11-12;17) All mankind during the age of grace will be judged according to Paul's gospel. " In the day that God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel" Romans 2:16 Paul warned mankind twice in Galatians, anyone that preached any other gospel then what was revealed to him by the ascended Lord Himself will be cursed " Please read Galatians 1: 8-9 KJV
  • Ronald L Whittemore - In Reply - 2 years ago
    DALE E STAHLBERG,

    From the first Adam, all have sinned Romans 5:12. Even without the law we have sinned, there are people in this world that do much evil and there are people in this world that do much good and neither have never seen a bible or heard of Jesus. From the first Adam, not only death was passed, every person is born with the knowledge of good and evil, it is written in our conscience. With or without the knowledge of the law, one may choose to either do evil or do good.

    We see in Romans 2:12-15, read the entire chapter. Jesus first came almost 2000 years ago, the Messiah for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Then by the grace of God, the gospel of Jesus was given to all the other nations. Millions of people lived and died before He first came, are they doomed to eternal death? Millions since have never heard of Him, are they doomed?

    What we should contemplate, will we that have heard the gospel of Jesus be held to a higher standard of judgment? We see when Jesus sent the disciples out to tell people the kingdom of heaven is at hand, what it would be like if they rejected it. Matthew 10:14-15.

    Many see the great white throne judgment is only for the lost, but in my understanding, scripture does not support that. We have Daniel 12:2 John 5:28-29 Matthew 25:31-46, and more, and the parables. After the one thousand years, Revelation 20:11-15. All the rest of the dead small and great, raised from the dead, they will be judged out of the books and one of these books is the book of life, and whoever was not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. Would the book of life be needed if all were lost? God is a just God and we can trust in His word.

    This is my understanding, may others have another view.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 17 - 2 years ago
    The two marks defining the people of God (Israel) were Circumcision & giving of the Law. No other people or nation received those directives from God ( Genesis 17:10,11; Leviticus 26:46). In regards to the Law, they were to learn God's requirements for a familial relationship to Him, to their society, & in their personal lives. For circumcision, they were to be marked out in a way distinct from any other (different from any body markings, cuttings or disfigurement of the heathen, even if there was an accidental loss of an organ or an appendage). And of course, the Apostle Paul spoke of this in Romans 2:25-29, connecting the two directives together - that one couldn't be without the other to the Jew - and since the Law couldn't be kept perfectly, true circumcision then must be of the heart & not of the flesh to count before God. I wonder whether what was given as a Mark of distinction & also for hygiene purposes, was also to alert the Jew that this seemingly unnatural act (of circumcision) was to point him to what the apostle now learned as a believer.

    And this practise of circumcision continued, not only within Judaism, but also Islam. Yet as much as Islamists (Arabs) might have their heritage back to Seth, yet "in Isaac shall thy seed be called" ( Genesis 21:12 & Romans 9:6-8). And this rejection of Ishmael by God will always keep those adherents at odds with the "seed of Isaac", & will most likely figure in those awful days of devastation that lie ahead.


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