And Jesus replied, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things." ( Luke 20:8).
The Pharisees; who derided Christ throughout His public ministry had this to say shortly before the crucifixion. Jesus shut them out; as well as remaining silent soon after during Pilate's interrogation. Self exaltation and justification wasn't necessary for Christ didn't seek to be served but to serve and give His life for a ransom for many. ( Mark 10:45) The fact is; the Pharisees and religious leaders should have known who He was; and therefore were operating in deliberate blindness; uniquely qualifying them to commit the unpardonable sin. (See Matthew 12:24).
Part of the concept of the verse on "casting pearls before swine" ( Matt. 7:6) relates to this. Jesus hid meanings of the Parables to others who were deliberately spiritually blind (see Matthew 13:34; and Matthew 13:15; Isaiah 42:19-20). John 9:39-41 shows the end of an entire chapter related to a blind man's healing; where Jesus explains how men are made blind to the truth; but the Pharisees after asking if that was the intention of what Jesus said were still left with the judgment for themselves because they could see and were responsible for their sin.
These are sobering reminders that man is not justified in any righteousness of their own and estranged from God from the womb ( Psalm 58:3); yet has a conscience given by God where men are judged more harshly that know the law ( Romans 2:15).
Jesus warned that judgment would be worse for those cities that rejected Him than for Sodom and Gomorrah ( Matthew 10:15).
This attitude led to the unpardonable sin; blasphemy of the Holy Spirit where Beelzebub was attributed to Christ's healing rather than God ( Matthew 12:22). The issue of forgiveness of sins was truly where the problem was; since the miracles were manifold.
Nonetheless; Jesus wouldn't use His power to save Himself on the cross or when unbelief was present (see Matthew 13:58).
Romans 2:9 states: There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile..
(NIV); but says tribulation and anguish in the KJV. There is another verse stating that judgment begins at the house of God. ( 1 Peter 4:17).
Just as not all Israel is Israel ( Romans 9:6); not all the "professing" church is the possessing church; that is possessing the Holy Spirit and true salvation. Jesus made that perfectly clear to those who thought because they were the physical descendants of Abraham that gave them some sort of benefit were sadly mistaken ( John 8:39-44). Those who had seen Christ; knew the prophecies about the Messiah and yet rejected Him would in fact be worse off than Sodom and Gomorrah in their punishment. ( Matt. 11:21-24). We see similar warnings for those who have knowledge of the truth and become reprobate; in that it would be better not to have known it in the first place ( 2 Peter 2:21).
Testing ourselves to see if we are in the faith is sadly lacking today among professing believers; or we would see a reality check in the fruits of many lives. ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). We can glibly see this example as a carnal bunch of people and think that being steeped in our own religious training or theology that we are automatically exempt from this test. I have said before that there are dangers in any extreme that is lacking the balancing attribute; such as with loving people and warning them of judgment to come ( John 16:8). We see in the Ephesian church everything being done properly but their first love somehow becoming distant in their hearts. Look at 1 Corinthians 13:6; love rejoices in the truth. The basic fact that man's heart is desperately wicked ( Jeremiah 17:9) and that our sin makes us enemies of God ( James 4:4) means that there is a wall between opposing parties and yes God is angry with the wicked (i.e. us) every day. ( Psalm 7:11). Having our heads in the sand doesn't help anyone.
There were many Jewish people in the Church of Rome,and the Apostle Paul in his universal epistle to the Church of Rome, he wrote: Romans 2:5-16:
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of WRATH and revelation of the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT of GOD;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION and WRATH,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew FIRST, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew FIRST, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD
12 For as many as have sinned WITHOUT Law(the Gentiles)shall also perish without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be Judged by the Law;
13 (For not the hearers of the Law are just before GOD, but the doers of the Law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the Law, do by nature the things contained in the Law, these, having not the Law, are a Law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the Law written in their hearts(Hallelujah!!), their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another-)
16 In the Day when GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. (The Day arrived-Woe of the inhabiters of the Earth)
Armageddon; and the ultimate end of Satan at the end of the Millennial reign of Christ is the ultimate conclusion of God's plan in using the enemy of our soul to purge the world of rebels and to end the power of death completely with a new heaven and earth (see 1 Cor. 15:26; Revelation 21 and 22).
Eternal punishment fits the crime so we can understand as wicked as things have been throughout human history it has stored up wrath for Satan as well as the unregenerate ( Romans 2:5 and subsequent verses in that chapter). The philosophy of "do as thou wilt" that is prominent among self proclaimed Satanists is contrasted with a sacrificial love that only Christ can offer. Everything seems backwards but the Lord has the master plan no matter how clever men and their devices are to destroy Christ (see Psalm 5:10; and read Psalm 2). Unregenerate man simply cannot understand how being a servant or slave of Christ brings men to freedom and how the opposite appeals to the flesh leave one in bondage in the end. They think we can somehow go back to Eden (as seen in the humanistic music of the 60's); but we see the result of this "free love" in the 70's and beyond with the rapid decay of traditional families in regard to sustainability of marriages and the removal of God's design for a family and harmonious home life. Whether Satan himself ever realized how wicked he would become is debateable; it would appear that Antichrist himself and or other rulers may not have realized this in verses such as Isaiah 10:7. The enemy always wants to sugarcoat the extreme jeopardy of man remaining in a sinful state by distracting him with grand delusions that lead nowhere but to destruction.
We see in Psalm 23:5 a verse on eating in the presence of enemies which indeed we will do during the Millennium when some inevitably will rebel at the end and insanely under Satan attempt one final time to destroy God and His people leading to failure.
God chose Israel for a unique purpose. He wanted, and so He created a nation through Abraham, in order to preserve through them the faith to the true God until the Savior appears on earth. At that point their mission as a nation ended and the church took in charge. In the church all nations and people all over the world are included, including Hebrews, that little remnant that accepted and still accepting Christ. The purpose of the church is very different from that of Israel's. We have to bring the gospel of salvation to all people all over the world, that was not what Israel was expected to do, it wasn't their mission. So who is God's chosen people? Both, for different reasons. Israel for bringing the Savior to the world and the church for bringing Him all over the world. But we must know that Israel 's mission has ended 2th years ago and it is now the church that has a mission. If Israel had accepted Christ they would have been the most honourable and important nation in the church, but they didn't and they have been cut off the olive tree. But God preserves them for a reason. Because He knows that under the pressure of antichrist they will turn to Him that they crucified and so they will be saved at the end. But we must know that they are not saved now (neither for the past 2 th years) and if they end their lives in sin they will not go to Heaven. I don't know how God is going to judge them, according to their faith or according to their works/conscience? ( Romans 2:11-26). But it is going to be really tough for them in the Judgement for as long as they are not receiving Christ as their Savior.
Ephesians 2:3-14, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:Having predestinated us unto the adoption .."
You have just said in prior post that you have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. Here's the great problem of those which justifies themselves as keepers of the Sabbath day according to the letter of the Law, for as said James in his universal epistle- James 2:10- , "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all". What more does the Word of GOD say? Romans 2:12 ->... as many as have sinned in the Law shall be Judged by the Law, therefore, he who sins in the Law becomes guilty of all, then by the Law he will be condemned for sure. Galatians 3:11 - ...no man is justified by the Law in the sight of GOD it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.(are wretchad)
Galatians 3:8-10
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that GOD would justify the Gentiles through faith(not by the Law), preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the Law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Hebrews 4:
12 For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom WE MUST RENDER AN ACCOUNT.
What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is from everlasting to everslating, the Word is GOD, self-executing, self-executable. Great mystery.
Revelation 22
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. ( Romans 2:12 - As many as have sinned without Law(the Gentiles) shall also PERISH without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be Judged by the Law;)
15 Without are dogs(dogs? Isaiah 56:10-11.Take a look), and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
But the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The Word is GOD, self-executing, self-executable, understand?
Gal.3:22-29KJV->24The Law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ,that we might be Justified by Faith.
25But after that faith is come,we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26For ye are all the children of GOD by faith in Christ Jesus.
29And if ye be Christ's,then are ye Abraham's seed,and heirs according to the promise.
23 But before faith came,we were kept under the Law,shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
22 But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin,that the promise by faith of JESUS CHRIST might be given to them that believe.
ROMANS 2:6-12KJV
6 Who WILL RENDER to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,ETERNAL LIFE:
8 But unto them that are contentious,and do not obey the truth,but obey unrighteousness,INDIGNATION AND WRATH,
9 TRIBULATION and ANGUISH,upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the JEW,and also of the GENTILE;
10 But glory,honour,and peace,to every man that worketh good,to the JEW first,and also to the GENTILE:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
12 For as many as have sinned without Law(the GENTILES)shall also PERISH without Law:and as many as have sinned in the Law(the JEWS)shall be JUDGED by the Law;
By the way,we are now living LITERALLY in the period of SORROWS as my Lord JESUS said- Matthew 24:3-8- but it is a short period of events listed by JESUS, the worst comes soon when the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stands in the holy place( Matthew 24:21-25KJV -> 21 Then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time(current time), no, nor ever shall be.
22 EXCEPT those days(current days)be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake these days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there;(as is written in John 5:43-47) BELIEVE IT NOT.
In reading I am reminded of the contrast between Paul's words and words some Christians say.
Word of God through Paul: "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain." 1 Corinthians 9:24 KJV
Man's doctrine: "Don't run, because you already have the prize. It's bad to put effort into following God, because my pastor says that's legalism and obeying God's law is bad and pleasing God is bad."
James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."
Man's doctrine: "nah, ignore that verse, cause I'm told all good works are 'bad'. Bad works are ok though since you're already forgiven."
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
Man's doctrine: "just ignore this verse, but lets cherry pick something else and focus on that instead."
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
Man's doctrine: "Nope, you're already saved right now, not later. So you don't have to endure anything or do anything whatsoever. Just do whatever feels good then rationalize it by saying that's the spirit doing it, not your sinful flesh."
Hebrews 10:36 "For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise."
Man's doctrine: "Nah, ignore that verse too. You already have the promise and prize. You don't need to do anything."
"But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" Romans 2:10 KJV
Man's doctrine: "No, just ignore. Good is bad, but bad is fine, because salvation."
Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
Thank you David0921 for your detailed comments & for taking the time to do so. I'll address each part of your five parts.
Part 1: Fully agree about mankind's total spiritual depravity before God, for no sinner can ever find righteousness from within himself that will avert the Wrath of God. To the "Law of God" you referred to, I'll take it as 'the holy standards that God requires of man to which man will always fail God'; rather than the giving of the Law (God's Standards to Israel), to which the Gentile had no knowledge of, aside from the dictates of his conscience ( Romans 2:14,15).
Part 2: Again, fully agree that the sinner is totally incapable or desirous to attain God's Holy Standard for righteousness and God is completely justified in the eternal condemnation of the sinner.
Part 3: Some issues here. a. "What does it mean to be "justified"? It means that we stand perfectly just before the Law of God because we have paid the full penalty required by the Law of God for each and every one of our dirty rotten sins." Did you mean, 'our justification before God means that we can stand guiltless because 'we'(?) or is is 'Christ' that paid our full penalty?'
b. I also understand that Galatians 2:16 refers to those who were no longer under the Law, but would use the Law as well as Grace given through Christ's death, to find their righteousness & justification. This was the 'Works of the Law' referred to, when any of it was added to the faith found in Christ alone - for the Law never gave righteousness & acceptance before God. "for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Unless the Elect of God today is of Jewish descent & was once under the Law, this verse has no application to the Gentile elected of God who was never under the Law & could never & should never use that Law to add to his faith.
This is my favorite scripture because, you can dig into this scripture really deeply! James 1:19-20 is literally the main learning point of the old saying "God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason", we should should use our ears to listen and learn and when we gain wisdom through this we can then use that wisdom to teach through our mouths; Cross References= Proverbs 17:27 and Proverbs 14:29! James 1:21-24 goes to show that we should lay aside all disobedience and defiance, read the word and live it; Romans 2:13, Jeremiah 44:16, and 1 Thessalonians 1:5!
The word says that scripture has to be understood by applying other scriptures to it.
The NEW COVENANT, the gospel, was preached to THEM as well as unto US.
John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship, salvation is of the Jews.
Romans 2:29 For he is a JEW, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is in the heart, IN THE SPIRIT .....
Romans 8:2 For the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST, has made us free from the LAW of sin and DEATH ...
This same gospel was preached to them as well as us.
Psalms 119:1 Blessed are the UNDEFILED in the way ( John 14:6) who WALK in the LAW OF the LORD ( Romans 8:2).
Ezekiel 36:27 I will put my Spirit in you and cause you to WALK in my STATUTES, and keep my judgements and DO THEM.
Psalms 119:3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in HIS WAYS.
Psalms 119:5 Oh that my ways were directed to keep thy STATUTES!
The Spirit CAUSES us TO DO his will, the words that come out of our mouth, are his words, the works of our hands, are his works.
Isaiah 48:18 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this, I have not spoken in secret from the beginning, from the time that it was, there am I, and HIS SPIRIT HAS SENT ME ( Romans 8:2).
John 14:24 ...and the word ye hear are not mine, but the Father's which sent me ....
Mark 10:8 And they TWAIN shall be ONE FLESH: so they are no more TWAIN, but ONE FLESH ...
The same SPIRIT that sent Christ and raised him up, and we as JOINT HEIRS, abides in us, our words are not ours by the Father's that anoints us.
The wages if UNBELIEF is DEATH.
The GIFT of BELIEF is IMMORTAL LIFE.
1 Timothy 6:16 .... Christ ONLY hath IMMORTAL LIFE......
The earth is full of violent men and wars of all kind,wars of demons,in all the continents,they are something like fallen angels. But what does the Word of God say?What did my Lord JESUS say? Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth- Matthew 5:5.But how?
GOD the Father-the Word,the Word is GOD- said by the prophet Hoseas(8th-century BCE-Hosea or Oshea means salvation,he is called also Joshua in the holy Scriptures): GOD said by Hosea: But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah,and will save them by the Lord their GOD,and will not save them by bow,nor by sword,nor by battle,by horses,nor by horsemen- Hosea 1:7.
GOD is the Truth. Jeremiah 10:10: But the Lord is the true GOD,He is the living GOD,and an everlasting King:at His WRATH the earth shall tremble,and the nations shall not be able to abide His INDIGNATGION.-As it is written in Romans 2:5-16-Check it.
The Day of the Lord
The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our LORD and of His Christ and He shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 11:v.15.The Word is GOD,the Word is self-executing according was preestablished and revealed.
So,there shall be a spiritual BATTLE against this devilish/satanic world ruled by the Devil which deceives the whole world- Revelation 12:9. And how do the nations will react?Well, we know that the nations will rage,yeah,will rage- Revelation 11:18-,the kings of the earth set themselves,and the rulers take counsel together,against the Lord,and against His anointed,saying,"Let us break their bands asunder,and cast away their cords from us",but the LORD will laugh:the Lord shall have them in derision- Psalm 2.
The LORD said: Joel 2:1-3
1Blow ye the trumpet in Zion,and sound an alarm in my holy mountain:let all the inhabitants of the land tremble:for the Day of the Lord cometh,for it is nigh at hand;(That is this 7th and last Day,the LORD's Day,or seventh and last millennium).
There shall be War against three unclean Spirits like frogs-Rev.16:13-15
This current millennium belongs EXCLUSIVELY to my Lord JESUS, all Power was given to Him in heaven and in earth, so what the powerful and great rulers of powerful nations are saying and claiming, and vociferating will not happen absolutely, everything they speak will not be fulfilled, but never. My Lord JESUS is in control of history, nothing random happens or will happen.
Get ready
My Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels (the true believers- Luke 20:35-36). In flaming fire taking VENGEANCE on them that know not GOD, and that obey not His gospel, the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be PUNISHED with everlasting destruction- Revelation 11:18- from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power;(according to the Mat.28:18) when He shall come to be glorified in His saints(true believers), and to be admired in all them that believe (in Him).
Now, even now, and from now on, what will LITERALLY be fulfilled according the written Word of GOD? Opinion is good for nothing, by the Word of GOD there will be only and only PUNISHMENT, punishment over punishment, anguish of ALL nations, and tribulation, and so on.
The rebel Israel was banned from their land and was spread around the whole world from year 70 AD until 1948, but from now on...? What will happen with Israel and Gentile nations?
Romans 2:9 - Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
What will happen with Israel according the Word of GOD? The rebel Israel was banned from their land and was spread around the whole world from year 70 AD until 1948, but from now on...? The Word is GOD, LITERALLY self-executing, understand?
By the way, the everlasting PUNISHMENT announced since ancient time, had a specific time to begin, but not to end, of course, and THIS TIME HAS ARRIVED and the everlasting punishment begins to run now, even now, and from now on, it's for ever and ever.
We are sure that the JUDGMENT of GOD is according to Truth.
Romans 2:5-
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of wrath (the LORD's Day, the seventh and last Day) and REVELATION of the righteous Judgment of GOD;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION AND WRATH,
9 TRIBULATION and ANGUISH, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
12 For as many as have sinned without Law shall also PERISH without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law shall be JUDGED by the Law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before GOD, but the doers of the Law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which HAVE NOT THE LAW, do by nature the things contained in the Law, these, having not the Law, are a Law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In this Day when GOD shall JUDGE the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
1Peter 4:17-18
17 The time is come that JUDGMENT must begin at the house of GOD: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of GOD?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Revelation 21:8-The fearful(the COWARDS),and unbelieving,and the abominable,and murderers,and whoremongers,and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
God is angry with the nations as well as individuals. Revelation 11:18 begins a discussion of God's wrath and it is accomplished when the winepress is trod alone by Christ ( Isaiah 63:3) which mirrors Armageddon as described in Revelation 19; but also the campaign of the Exekiel 38 war and the nations God destroys in the process.
In such a topic; of course we see other attributes of God balancing things such as wrath and anger with patience and longsuffering of the Lord; for instance. In all this discussion it is important to see how a balanced picture of our Lord brings a better focus as to who He is. We can't just focus on anger or there is no hope for His love; but the same holds true for those who only want to hear "encouraging" verses in scripture. As famously stated we either have all of Christ or we have in reality none of Him. We must take the whole counsel of the Word of God rather than cherry picking what we want as context gets thrown out the window at best with that mindset; and at worst whole doctrinal truths are cast aside. Such is the action of such deists as Benjamin Franklin apparently. The flesh really doesn't even comprehend God's love; for human love and its vicissitudes clearly can't be trusted ( Jeremiah 17:9) as our heart is desperately wicked and who can know it? God judges impartially and is not a "respecter of persons" ( Romans 2:11-16; Acts 10:34). He is entirely righteous and no one can argue with Him once judgment comes. As Psalm 2 states we should "kiss the Son" while He is in the way so that His anger doesn't make us perish (verse 12; loosely translated). God's terms are having Christ as our mediator and High Priest because He can't look upon sin ( Heb. 9:15; Habakkuk 1:13). God will thankfully bring His own people to completion and hence the new heaven and earth will have nations of righteous people serving God; both the survivors of the Tribulation and Resurrected/Raptured saints.
"For circumcision (also spiritual circumcision which is new birth) verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision."
If we took Romans 2:6-11 by themselves, it would be easy to conclude that they teach salvation by works. They seem to say that those who do good works will thereby earn eternal life. But it should be clear that the passage cannot mean that because then it would flatly contradict the consistent testimony of the rest of Scripture to the effect that salvation is by faith apart from works. There are about 150 passages in the NT condition salvation solely on faith or believing. ( Rom 2:6) No ONE passage, when rightly understood, can contradict such overwhelming testimony. Yet this is exactly what is usually attempted with Galatians 3:28 which flatly contradicts the consistent testimony of the rest of Scripture such as 1 Peter 3:1, 1 Peter 3:5-6, Col 3:18, Ephesians 5:22-24.
Speaking in finish line, what does the Word of GOD say prophetically? Daniel 12:12 - Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. (that is 45 DAYS after the period of the 2nd half of the last week be finished-1260 days-plus a gap of 30 days, according to the calendar). Get ready, "For we are saved by hope- Romans 8:24- but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not- Romans 8:25-, then do we with patience wait for it. By the way, "hope maketh not ashamed (hope does not bring confusion); because the love of GOD is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us.
May our Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen
P.S.
Now, in the TURN of sixth GOD's Day to the seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium, we are living in the beginning of sorrows, so there will be only and only severe punishiments in the world of Devil as a whole (JESUS listed them- Matthew 24:3-8 and they fulfill LITERALLY), and the true believers will suffer a lot as JESUS warned us- Matthew 24:9-14. And the worst will happen successively in sequence- Matthew 24:15-25-.
Let's remember: Our GOD CURSED the Devil, and JESUS has already CURSED BY WRITTEN the betrayers- Matthew 25:41&46-, but "
upon the earth there be distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea (peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues)and the waves(generations) roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which ARE COMING on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken- Luke 21:25-26 combined with Romans 2:9&11 -->9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? Isaiah 33:14
I have always stated that in the end; God has a certain number of people that enter hell; and a set number in heaven and since God is fair and an impartial judge ( Romans 2:11) that no one will be able to prove Him wrong; or even want to question the final verdict. The wicked will be speechless and the righteous rejoice forever. This settles any issues with OSAS or Predestination for that matter; and even free will. There are those who hate the light and love darkness ( John 3:19-21).
There are as I mentioned before HUNDREDS of verses that on the surface may appear to render the OSAS concept void; but when we consider the context; the concluding meanings of the text and other factors more often than not it appears to support this idea. Again the scriptures that indate there is no longer any condemnation ( Romans 8:1) for believers; we have "passed from death to life ( John 5:24); will never die ( John 11:25) and a plethora of other supporting texts shows eternal security for a TRUE believer in Christ.
My emphasis was on the FRUIT of one's life rather than just what is verbalized. One's heart determines their course of action; the righteous is contrasted with the wicked shown in passages such as Mark 7:20-23. Christ for the wicked is a means to an end; whether it be financial security (such as for those who buy into the prosperity gospel or are out to borrow money and fleece those who are called to follow passages such as Luke 6:30.) Christ for the righteous on the other hand is God in the flesh and we are compelled through the Spirit and a new heart to serve with love and obedience (See John 14:15 and read rest of the chapter for further context). Again; loving our enemies and dying for them isn't something natural man will do (see Romans 5:7-9). If we understand the indebtedness we have to Christ and not just a band aid for our sin behavior but a death sentence to our SIN NATURE through the new life in Christ we are saved.
Thank you. I'm sorry that you feel that I berate. I get why you might think that I berate, but Truly it's done in LOVE. What I'm Professing is The Truth, you see, everyone is missing The Message! I'm NOT speaking against the holy bible, I'm rebuking Any declarations that a book is God! God is SO MUCH MORE! A book doesn't "bring" anyone closer to God, and you wonder HOW God reveals Himself to people, Romans 2:13-16. And here is The Prophecy from which it came Jeremiah 31:31-34. You think I call the holy bible frivolous? I call the holy bible holy, just, and good. But, I will never call the holy bible God. Everyone is so incensed that their anger is causing them to sin.
Jema, you ask for a Revelation to "prove" that God has sent me with His Message. Well, Christ was asked the same, Luke 11:29-30; so, what is The Sign of Jonah? Jonah hated the Ninevites, so the Ninevites had No reason to listen to Jonah because Jonah made his distaste obvious. The sign of Jonah is God sending a man who is disliked and even hated to people, who dislike and hate him, to declare their destruction. Why? For if the people "Listen" to their hatred then they will not hear God in the message, but if the people "put away" their hatred they may avoid Destruction.
Jema, you ask me to imagine how quarrelsome we would be without the Bible, very quarrelsome indeed; but, I ask you to imagine how MUCH Faith we would have as a consequence. You see, if everyone yells for you to go left, but God's Holy Spirit directs you right, And you obey God, my God, The Wonders we would witness!
Jema, you ask why the people killed Christ. I tell you, it wasn't because they didn't know He was the Messiah! John 3:1-3 the Pharisees killed Christ because He came to take away their power as priests of God; they were necessary to the people because if a person wanted to seek God, they had to go to them. God "did away with this by making All people a holy nation and priests! Put away anger and Listen!
It's not that I don't see what you're getting at, I truly do. But I feel that not many people are getting what I'm saying! I keep getting from people the reasons other translations are inferior, but my point is; Truly, it doesn't matter! To put things in perspective I'll illustrate: More often than not scholar think that the best way to get the true meaning from scripture is to learn and read scripture in its original language. Now, the obvious problem arises, I have to learn the original language, and this takes time. The obvious response to this problem is, "Well, then learn the original language! For if God means so very much to someone then it's a small price to pay!" And, for the worldly wise this answer may seem appropriate, yet the obvious problem is that until I learn and become fluent in the original language I'm in jeopardy of condemnation because I'm ignorant of the truth!
Now, this is an exaggerated situation but my POINT is exemplified: if the Real Truth is only found in a book then one Must have the "right" book. Some will say "Well, that's true because if someone doesn't have the holy bible then how can they KNOW Christ?" To that I say, if someone needs a book to know God then he truly isn't God! My God and Father isn't bound by ANYTHING, least of all a book! Now, the enemy might stir some to think that I speak against the holy bible, I don't. What I speak against is ANY limitation placed upon God! If God can use a demon or a donkey, why would He be limited by a words or a translation? The obvious question to my statement is, "If someone doesn't have the holy bible then how would they hear of Christ?" To that I refer to Proof that God isn't limited by ANYTHING! Romans 2:13-16 This passage is my Evidence that God is FAITHFUL even though we are faithless. And, that is what the holy bible is, evidence, not God. For how did the Gentiles know the law, thought they never had the law? God placed His Law upon their hearts so that they live by It.
Romans 2:17-29 (KJV) 17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
See. Dan, like the SDA sect, interprets it literally differently from you. Actually, they interpret that just like the Pharisees, and Scribes, and Priests, our Lord JESUS also kept the Law of the 10 commandments that GOD gave to Moses and his body-the people of Israel- to keep them.
Paul the Apostle, a former Pharisee extremist, knew very well to distinguish the difference between what GOD gave to Moses and to JESUS, what was given to Moses was the dead letter of the Law, and Israel was as always a simply sinful nation, but what was given to JESUS is the Spirit of the Law, the only one capable of giving life to the disciples of Him, JESUS really FULFILLED the Law. GOD is Spirit.
By the way, the body without the Spirit is dead ( James 2:26), the dead do not praise the Lord ( Psalm 119:17), so the keepers (Jews or Gentiles) of the dead letter of the Law of Moses that lasted until John the Baptist as JESUS warned, they all are dead, and they do not praise the Lord at all, they do not believe in the revelation and determination of JESUS that the dead letter of the Law given to Moses lasted only and only until John the Baptist. period
The heavens(the 1st and 2nd heavens, i.e. the Dispensations of the Old and New Testaments(the 3rd heaven shall be still established- Luke 20:35-36, among other biblical references) and the earth(the current rebel Israel), which are now, by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Romans 2:12&14
12 For as many as have sinned without Law(the Gentiles) shall also PERISH without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be JUDGED by the Law;
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the Law, do by nature the things contained in the Law, these, having not the Law, are a Law unto themselves:
13 (For not the hearers of the Law are just before GOD, but the doers of the Law shall be justified.
Oseas. You wrote, "The Law was established to put a moral discipline among the people which GOD had freed from Pharaoh's yoke." Of course, the Law did just that & of course, they had to obey it PERFECTLY. Wasn't this so? If it wasn't so, why did they suffer punishment or be killed - why not just keep a set of rules for them to follow the best way they could? The Law represented God's Standards for His people & failure to do so meant punishment - and fail they did. None could keep His Law perfectly, or else there would be no need for the sacrifices each year for the people & for personal sins. So the Law presented a "moral discipline", but also showed the condition of the human heart & the weakness of the flesh when they failed to obey God.
When Paul wrote about the Gentiles & their law & conscience ( Romans 2:14,15), he was referring to humanity's inner 'coding' in the conscience by which they know the right & proper things to do (in relation to each other & before an unseen God). These never received any of God's Laws, but their hearts will be judged because they couldn't even obey the dictates of their own consciences. So, both the Jew (with the Law), and the Gentile (without the Law, but having that inward law operating), stand condemned for their sins. The battle wasn't "between God & the Devil in having the dominion of the people", for Israel could never obey the Law anyway, as Satan would always have the victory. The battle was within Israel's heart - a heart of sin, subject to sin's demands upon them, & given over to Satan. See Paul's account of this in Romans 7:7-14 (the Law revealed his sin; he then died spiritually because of it - nothing to do with God's battles). Instead of fighting the Devil for souls, God provided His Own Sacrifice & His Own Spirit to redeem sinners.
You mentioned 'interpretation by the Spirit' & then "they died by the letterincluding the gods". Do you actually understand Psalm 82:6,7 & Isaiah 41:23, when you write these things?
In fact it is very sad, and it is happening in whole world, and the worst it to still come for all nations. Read what JESUS said and warning the whole world by His word: Luke 21:22-36. Take a look.
By the way, there is no effect without cause. See this one example below, among many other since ancient time:
2 Chronicles 36:14-16
14 Moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and polluted the house of the Lord which he had hallowed in Jerusalem.
15 And the Lord GOD of their fathers sent to them by His messengers, rising up betimes, and sending; because He had compassion on His people, and on his dwelling place:
16 But they mocked the messengers of GOD, and despised His words, and misused His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people,till THERE WAS NO REMEDY. (Now it is not and will not be different, THERE IS NO REMEDY, unfortunately.)
Romans 2:5-11
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
2Peter 4:17-18
17 The time is come that Judgment must begin at the house of GOD: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of GOD?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
The first part of the book is the doctrine of the Christian faith, which is Romans Chapter 1 Verse 18 through Chapter 11 Verse 36. The introduction is the first 17 verses.
And that introduction is divided into three parts:
Romans 1:1-7 - Paul's Position in Ministry
Romans 1:8-15 - Paul's Plan for Ministry
Romans 1:16-17 - Paul's Perception of Ministry.
Now believe it or not, embedded, and I emphasize the word embedded, but in these 17 verses are three important doctrines. They are the doctrine of Jesus Christ, the doctrine of ministry, and the doctrine of the gospel. These are all found in these first 17 verses. In fact, every verse, even the introduction can be considered doctrine.
IX. THE DOCTRINE OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH. ( Romans 1:18-11:36)
In Romans Chapter 1 Verse 18 through to the end of Chapter 11 (there are 16 Chapters in Romans), but Chapter 1 Verse 18 through the end of Chapter 11 is the doctrinal section, specifically to present the doctrine of the Christian faith.
Indictment - The Doctrine of Condemnation ( Romans 1:18 - 3:20). The first part is indictment. It is the doctrine of condemnation. I'm sure we all love to study about that! "Come and let me show you how condemned you are!" Isn't that nice!
And that's divided up into three sections:
Romans 1:18-32 - The Prosecution Against the Gentiles
Romans 2:1-3:8 - The Prosecution Against the Jews
Romans 3:9-20 - The Prosecution Against all Mankind
The prosecution against the Gentiles. It is a fascinating study. You and I are Gentiles. Most Gentiles have not had exposure to the Old Testament or Judaism or Jewish ministry or teaching at all. We're kind of like the "Heinz 57" variety. We all come from different religious system backgrounds, and we are the Gentiles.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9) NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.
10)For we are his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS "UNTO GOOD WORKS", which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11)Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13)But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off ARE MADE NIGH BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.
THIS IS MARVELOUS SAYING! HERE'S WHERE YOU SEE THE CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART AS MENTIONED IN ROMANS 2:26-29.
"Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. ( In these verses Jew is not mentioned to describe an ethnic group but rather to describe the performance and seal of the cutting away the flesh.)
WE GENTILES ARE BROUGHT NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST, NOT CIRCUMCISION OF THE FLESH THAT RESPRESENTS THE JEW AND ALL OF THEIR WRITTEN ARTICLES WHEREBY THEY WERE COMMANDED. ( We're joined by the promise given to Abraham
Galatians 3:14-18.
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: FOR IF THERE HAD BEEN A LAW GIVEN WHICH COULD HAVE GIVEN LIFE, VERILY RIGHTEOUSNESS SHOULD HAVE BEEN BY THE LAW.
The Pharisees; who derided Christ throughout His public ministry had this to say shortly before the crucifixion. Jesus shut them out; as well as remaining silent soon after during Pilate's interrogation. Self exaltation and justification wasn't necessary for Christ didn't seek to be served but to serve and give His life for a ransom for many. ( Mark 10:45) The fact is; the Pharisees and religious leaders should have known who He was; and therefore were operating in deliberate blindness; uniquely qualifying them to commit the unpardonable sin. (See Matthew 12:24).
Part of the concept of the verse on "casting pearls before swine" ( Matt. 7:6) relates to this. Jesus hid meanings of the Parables to others who were deliberately spiritually blind (see Matthew 13:34; and Matthew 13:15; Isaiah 42:19-20). John 9:39-41 shows the end of an entire chapter related to a blind man's healing; where Jesus explains how men are made blind to the truth; but the Pharisees after asking if that was the intention of what Jesus said were still left with the judgment for themselves because they could see and were responsible for their sin.
These are sobering reminders that man is not justified in any righteousness of their own and estranged from God from the womb ( Psalm 58:3); yet has a conscience given by God where men are judged more harshly that know the law ( Romans 2:15).
Jesus warned that judgment would be worse for those cities that rejected Him than for Sodom and Gomorrah ( Matthew 10:15).
This attitude led to the unpardonable sin; blasphemy of the Holy Spirit where Beelzebub was attributed to Christ's healing rather than God ( Matthew 12:22). The issue of forgiveness of sins was truly where the problem was; since the miracles were manifold.
Nonetheless; Jesus wouldn't use His power to save Himself on the cross or when unbelief was present (see Matthew 13:58).
(NIV); but says tribulation and anguish in the KJV. There is another verse stating that judgment begins at the house of God. ( 1 Peter 4:17).
Just as not all Israel is Israel ( Romans 9:6); not all the "professing" church is the possessing church; that is possessing the Holy Spirit and true salvation. Jesus made that perfectly clear to those who thought because they were the physical descendants of Abraham that gave them some sort of benefit were sadly mistaken ( John 8:39-44). Those who had seen Christ; knew the prophecies about the Messiah and yet rejected Him would in fact be worse off than Sodom and Gomorrah in their punishment. ( Matt. 11:21-24). We see similar warnings for those who have knowledge of the truth and become reprobate; in that it would be better not to have known it in the first place ( 2 Peter 2:21).
Testing ourselves to see if we are in the faith is sadly lacking today among professing believers; or we would see a reality check in the fruits of many lives. ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). We can glibly see this example as a carnal bunch of people and think that being steeped in our own religious training or theology that we are automatically exempt from this test. I have said before that there are dangers in any extreme that is lacking the balancing attribute; such as with loving people and warning them of judgment to come ( John 16:8). We see in the Ephesian church everything being done properly but their first love somehow becoming distant in their hearts. Look at 1 Corinthians 13:6; love rejoices in the truth. The basic fact that man's heart is desperately wicked ( Jeremiah 17:9) and that our sin makes us enemies of God ( James 4:4) means that there is a wall between opposing parties and yes God is angry with the wicked (i.e. us) every day. ( Psalm 7:11). Having our heads in the sand doesn't help anyone.
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of WRATH and revelation of the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT of GOD;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION and WRATH,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew FIRST, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew FIRST, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD
12 For as many as have sinned WITHOUT Law(the Gentiles)shall also perish without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be Judged by the Law;
13 (For not the hearers of the Law are just before GOD, but the doers of the Law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the Law, do by nature the things contained in the Law, these, having not the Law, are a Law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the Law written in their hearts(Hallelujah!!), their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another-)
16 In the Day when GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. (The Day arrived-Woe of the inhabiters of the Earth)
The Word is GOD, self-executing
Armageddon; and the ultimate end of Satan at the end of the Millennial reign of Christ is the ultimate conclusion of God's plan in using the enemy of our soul to purge the world of rebels and to end the power of death completely with a new heaven and earth (see 1 Cor. 15:26; Revelation 21 and 22).
Eternal punishment fits the crime so we can understand as wicked as things have been throughout human history it has stored up wrath for Satan as well as the unregenerate ( Romans 2:5 and subsequent verses in that chapter). The philosophy of "do as thou wilt" that is prominent among self proclaimed Satanists is contrasted with a sacrificial love that only Christ can offer. Everything seems backwards but the Lord has the master plan no matter how clever men and their devices are to destroy Christ (see Psalm 5:10; and read Psalm 2). Unregenerate man simply cannot understand how being a servant or slave of Christ brings men to freedom and how the opposite appeals to the flesh leave one in bondage in the end. They think we can somehow go back to Eden (as seen in the humanistic music of the 60's); but we see the result of this "free love" in the 70's and beyond with the rapid decay of traditional families in regard to sustainability of marriages and the removal of God's design for a family and harmonious home life. Whether Satan himself ever realized how wicked he would become is debateable; it would appear that Antichrist himself and or other rulers may not have realized this in verses such as Isaiah 10:7. The enemy always wants to sugarcoat the extreme jeopardy of man remaining in a sinful state by distracting him with grand delusions that lead nowhere but to destruction.
We see in Psalm 23:5 a verse on eating in the presence of enemies which indeed we will do during the Millennium when some inevitably will rebel at the end and insanely under Satan attempt one final time to destroy God and His people leading to failure.
My opinion about Israel.
God chose Israel for a unique purpose. He wanted, and so He created a nation through Abraham, in order to preserve through them the faith to the true God until the Savior appears on earth. At that point their mission as a nation ended and the church took in charge. In the church all nations and people all over the world are included, including Hebrews, that little remnant that accepted and still accepting Christ. The purpose of the church is very different from that of Israel's. We have to bring the gospel of salvation to all people all over the world, that was not what Israel was expected to do, it wasn't their mission. So who is God's chosen people? Both, for different reasons. Israel for bringing the Savior to the world and the church for bringing Him all over the world. But we must know that Israel 's mission has ended 2th years ago and it is now the church that has a mission. If Israel had accepted Christ they would have been the most honourable and important nation in the church, but they didn't and they have been cut off the olive tree. But God preserves them for a reason. Because He knows that under the pressure of antichrist they will turn to Him that they crucified and so they will be saved at the end. But we must know that they are not saved now (neither for the past 2 th years) and if they end their lives in sin they will not go to Heaven. I don't know how God is going to judge them, according to their faith or according to their works/conscience? ( Romans 2:11-26). But it is going to be really tough for them in the Judgement for as long as they are not receiving Christ as their Savior.
Ephesians 2:3-14, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:Having predestinated us unto the adoption .."
Greetings in Christ JESUS
You have just said in prior post that you have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. Here's the great problem of those which justifies themselves as keepers of the Sabbath day according to the letter of the Law, for as said James in his universal epistle- James 2:10- , "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all". What more does the Word of GOD say? Romans 2:12 ->... as many as have sinned in the Law shall be Judged by the Law, therefore, he who sins in the Law becomes guilty of all, then by the Law he will be condemned for sure. Galatians 3:11 - ...no man is justified by the Law in the sight of GOD it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.(are wretchad)
Galatians 3:8-10
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that GOD would justify the Gentiles through faith(not by the Law), preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the Law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Hebrews 4:
12 For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom WE MUST RENDER AN ACCOUNT.
Revelation 22
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. ( Romans 2:12 - As many as have sinned without Law(the Gentiles) shall also PERISH without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be Judged by the Law;)
15 Without are dogs(dogs? Isaiah 56:10-11.Take a look), and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
But the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The Word is GOD, self-executing, self-executable, understand?
25But after that faith is come,we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26For ye are all the children of GOD by faith in Christ Jesus.
29And if ye be Christ's,then are ye Abraham's seed,and heirs according to the promise.
23 But before faith came,we were kept under the Law,shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
22 But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin,that the promise by faith of JESUS CHRIST might be given to them that believe.
ROMANS 2:6-12KJV
6 Who WILL RENDER to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,ETERNAL LIFE:
8 But unto them that are contentious,and do not obey the truth,but obey unrighteousness,INDIGNATION AND WRATH,
9 TRIBULATION and ANGUISH,upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the JEW,and also of the GENTILE;
10 But glory,honour,and peace,to every man that worketh good,to the JEW first,and also to the GENTILE:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
12 For as many as have sinned without Law(the GENTILES)shall also PERISH without Law:and as many as have sinned in the Law(the JEWS)shall be JUDGED by the Law;
By the way,we are now living LITERALLY in the period of SORROWS as my Lord JESUS said- Matthew 24:3-8- but it is a short period of events listed by JESUS, the worst comes soon when the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stands in the holy place( Matthew 24:21-25KJV -> 21 Then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time(current time), no, nor ever shall be.
22 EXCEPT those days(current days)be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake these days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there;(as is written in John 5:43-47) BELIEVE IT NOT.
25 Behold,I have told you before.
Get ready
Word of God through Paul: "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain." 1 Corinthians 9:24 KJV
Man's doctrine: "Don't run, because you already have the prize. It's bad to put effort into following God, because my pastor says that's legalism and obeying God's law is bad and pleasing God is bad."
James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."
Man's doctrine: "nah, ignore that verse, cause I'm told all good works are 'bad'. Bad works are ok though since you're already forgiven."
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
Man's doctrine: "just ignore this verse, but lets cherry pick something else and focus on that instead."
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
Man's doctrine: "Nope, you're already saved right now, not later. So you don't have to endure anything or do anything whatsoever. Just do whatever feels good then rationalize it by saying that's the spirit doing it, not your sinful flesh."
Hebrews 10:36 "For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise."
Man's doctrine: "Nah, ignore that verse too. You already have the promise and prize. You don't need to do anything."
"But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" Romans 2:10 KJV
Man's doctrine: "No, just ignore. Good is bad, but bad is fine, because salvation."
Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
Man's doctrine: "Nope"
Are both genuinely following Jesus?
Thank you David0921 for your detailed comments & for taking the time to do so. I'll address each part of your five parts.
Part 1: Fully agree about mankind's total spiritual depravity before God, for no sinner can ever find righteousness from within himself that will avert the Wrath of God. To the "Law of God" you referred to, I'll take it as 'the holy standards that God requires of man to which man will always fail God'; rather than the giving of the Law (God's Standards to Israel), to which the Gentile had no knowledge of, aside from the dictates of his conscience ( Romans 2:14,15).
Part 2: Again, fully agree that the sinner is totally incapable or desirous to attain God's Holy Standard for righteousness and God is completely justified in the eternal condemnation of the sinner.
Part 3: Some issues here. a. "What does it mean to be "justified"? It means that we stand perfectly just before the Law of God because we have paid the full penalty required by the Law of God for each and every one of our dirty rotten sins." Did you mean, 'our justification before God means that we can stand guiltless because 'we'(?) or is is 'Christ' that paid our full penalty?'
b. I also understand that Galatians 2:16 refers to those who were no longer under the Law, but would use the Law as well as Grace given through Christ's death, to find their righteousness & justification. This was the 'Works of the Law' referred to, when any of it was added to the faith found in Christ alone - for the Law never gave righteousness & acceptance before God. "for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Unless the Elect of God today is of Jewish descent & was once under the Law, this verse has no application to the Gentile elected of God who was never under the Law & could never & should never use that Law to add to his faith.
This is my favorite scripture because, you can dig into this scripture really deeply! James 1:19-20 is literally the main learning point of the old saying "God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason", we should should use our ears to listen and learn and when we gain wisdom through this we can then use that wisdom to teach through our mouths; Cross References= Proverbs 17:27 and Proverbs 14:29! James 1:21-24 goes to show that we should lay aside all disobedience and defiance, read the word and live it; Romans 2:13, Jeremiah 44:16, and 1 Thessalonians 1:5!
The word says that scripture has to be understood by applying other scriptures to it.
The NEW COVENANT, the gospel, was preached to THEM as well as unto US.
John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship, salvation is of the Jews.
Romans 2:29 For he is a JEW, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is in the heart, IN THE SPIRIT .....
Romans 8:2 For the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST, has made us free from the LAW of sin and DEATH ...
This same gospel was preached to them as well as us.
Psalms 119:1 Blessed are the UNDEFILED in the way ( John 14:6) who WALK in the LAW OF the LORD ( Romans 8:2).
Ezekiel 36:27 I will put my Spirit in you and cause you to WALK in my STATUTES, and keep my judgements and DO THEM.
Psalms 119:3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in HIS WAYS.
Psalms 119:5 Oh that my ways were directed to keep thy STATUTES!
The Spirit CAUSES us TO DO his will, the words that come out of our mouth, are his words, the works of our hands, are his works.
Isaiah 48:18 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this, I have not spoken in secret from the beginning, from the time that it was, there am I, and HIS SPIRIT HAS SENT ME ( Romans 8:2).
John 14:24 ...and the word ye hear are not mine, but the Father's which sent me ....
Mark 10:8 And they TWAIN shall be ONE FLESH: so they are no more TWAIN, but ONE FLESH ...
The same SPIRIT that sent Christ and raised him up, and we as JOINT HEIRS, abides in us, our words are not ours by the Father's that anoints us.
The wages if UNBELIEF is DEATH.
The GIFT of BELIEF is IMMORTAL LIFE.
1 Timothy 6:16 .... Christ ONLY hath IMMORTAL LIFE......
God BLESS YOU!
GOD the Father-the Word,the Word is GOD- said by the prophet Hoseas(8th-century BCE-Hosea or Oshea means salvation,he is called also Joshua in the holy Scriptures): GOD said by Hosea: But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah,and will save them by the Lord their GOD,and will not save them by bow,nor by sword,nor by battle,by horses,nor by horsemen- Hosea 1:7.
GOD is the Truth. Jeremiah 10:10: But the Lord is the true GOD,He is the living GOD,and an everlasting King:at His WRATH the earth shall tremble,and the nations shall not be able to abide His INDIGNATGION.-As it is written in Romans 2:5-16-Check it.
The Day of the Lord
The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our LORD and of His Christ and He shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 11:v.15.The Word is GOD,the Word is self-executing according was preestablished and revealed.
So,there shall be a spiritual BATTLE against this devilish/satanic world ruled by the Devil which deceives the whole world- Revelation 12:9. And how do the nations will react?Well, we know that the nations will rage,yeah,will rage- Revelation 11:18-,the kings of the earth set themselves,and the rulers take counsel together,against the Lord,and against His anointed,saying,"Let us break their bands asunder,and cast away their cords from us",but the LORD will laugh:the Lord shall have them in derision- Psalm 2.
The LORD said: Joel 2:1-3
1Blow ye the trumpet in Zion,and sound an alarm in my holy mountain:let all the inhabitants of the land tremble:for the Day of the Lord cometh,for it is nigh at hand;(That is this 7th and last Day,the LORD's Day,or seventh and last millennium).
There shall be War against three unclean Spirits like frogs-Rev.16:13-15
Get ready
Get ready
My Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels (the true believers- Luke 20:35-36). In flaming fire taking VENGEANCE on them that know not GOD, and that obey not His gospel, the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be PUNISHED with everlasting destruction- Revelation 11:18- from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power;(according to the Mat.28:18) when He shall come to be glorified in His saints(true believers), and to be admired in all them that believe (in Him).
Now, even now, and from now on, what will LITERALLY be fulfilled according the written Word of GOD? Opinion is good for nothing, by the Word of GOD there will be only and only PUNISHMENT, punishment over punishment, anguish of ALL nations, and tribulation, and so on.
The rebel Israel was banned from their land and was spread around the whole world from year 70 AD until 1948, but from now on...? What will happen with Israel and Gentile nations?
Romans 2:9 - Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
What will happen with Israel according the Word of GOD? The rebel Israel was banned from their land and was spread around the whole world from year 70 AD until 1948, but from now on...? The Word is GOD, LITERALLY self-executing, understand?
By the way, the everlasting PUNISHMENT announced since ancient time, had a specific time to begin, but not to end, of course, and THIS TIME HAS ARRIVED and the everlasting punishment begins to run now, even now, and from now on, it's for ever and ever.
Get ready
Romans 2:5-
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of wrath (the LORD's Day, the seventh and last Day) and REVELATION of the righteous Judgment of GOD;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION AND WRATH,
9 TRIBULATION and ANGUISH, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
12 For as many as have sinned without Law shall also PERISH without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law shall be JUDGED by the Law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before GOD, but the doers of the Law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which HAVE NOT THE LAW, do by nature the things contained in the Law, these, having not the Law, are a Law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In this Day when GOD shall JUDGE the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
1Peter 4:17-18
17 The time is come that JUDGMENT must begin at the house of GOD: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of GOD?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Revelation 21:8-The fearful(the COWARDS),and unbelieving,and the abominable,and murderers,and whoremongers,and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
God is angry with the nations as well as individuals. Revelation 11:18 begins a discussion of God's wrath and it is accomplished when the winepress is trod alone by Christ ( Isaiah 63:3) which mirrors Armageddon as described in Revelation 19; but also the campaign of the Exekiel 38 war and the nations God destroys in the process.
In such a topic; of course we see other attributes of God balancing things such as wrath and anger with patience and longsuffering of the Lord; for instance. In all this discussion it is important to see how a balanced picture of our Lord brings a better focus as to who He is. We can't just focus on anger or there is no hope for His love; but the same holds true for those who only want to hear "encouraging" verses in scripture. As famously stated we either have all of Christ or we have in reality none of Him. We must take the whole counsel of the Word of God rather than cherry picking what we want as context gets thrown out the window at best with that mindset; and at worst whole doctrinal truths are cast aside. Such is the action of such deists as Benjamin Franklin apparently. The flesh really doesn't even comprehend God's love; for human love and its vicissitudes clearly can't be trusted ( Jeremiah 17:9) as our heart is desperately wicked and who can know it? God judges impartially and is not a "respecter of persons" ( Romans 2:11-16; Acts 10:34). He is entirely righteous and no one can argue with Him once judgment comes. As Psalm 2 states we should "kiss the Son" while He is in the way so that His anger doesn't make us perish (verse 12; loosely translated). God's terms are having Christ as our mediator and High Priest because He can't look upon sin ( Heb. 9:15; Habakkuk 1:13). God will thankfully bring His own people to completion and hence the new heaven and earth will have nations of righteous people serving God; both the survivors of the Tribulation and Resurrected/Raptured saints.
"For circumcision (also spiritual circumcision which is new birth) verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision."
"For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the
righteous judgment of God;
6 Who(God) will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Speaking in finish line, what does the Word of GOD say prophetically? Daniel 12:12 - Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. (that is 45 DAYS after the period of the 2nd half of the last week be finished-1260 days-plus a gap of 30 days, according to the calendar). Get ready, "For we are saved by hope- Romans 8:24- but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not- Romans 8:25-, then do we with patience wait for it. By the way, "hope maketh not ashamed (hope does not bring confusion); because the love of GOD is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us.
May our Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen
P.S.
Now, in the TURN of sixth GOD's Day to the seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium, we are living in the beginning of sorrows, so there will be only and only severe punishiments in the world of Devil as a whole (JESUS listed them- Matthew 24:3-8 and they fulfill LITERALLY), and the true believers will suffer a lot as JESUS warned us- Matthew 24:9-14. And the worst will happen successively in sequence- Matthew 24:15-25-.
Let's remember: Our GOD CURSED the Devil, and JESUS has already CURSED BY WRITTEN the betrayers- Matthew 25:41&46-, but "
upon the earth there be distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea (peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues)and the waves(generations) roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which ARE COMING on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken- Luke 21:25-26 combined with Romans 2:9&11 -->9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? Isaiah 33:14
I have always stated that in the end; God has a certain number of people that enter hell; and a set number in heaven and since God is fair and an impartial judge ( Romans 2:11) that no one will be able to prove Him wrong; or even want to question the final verdict. The wicked will be speechless and the righteous rejoice forever. This settles any issues with OSAS or Predestination for that matter; and even free will. There are those who hate the light and love darkness ( John 3:19-21).
There are as I mentioned before HUNDREDS of verses that on the surface may appear to render the OSAS concept void; but when we consider the context; the concluding meanings of the text and other factors more often than not it appears to support this idea. Again the scriptures that indate there is no longer any condemnation ( Romans 8:1) for believers; we have "passed from death to life ( John 5:24); will never die ( John 11:25) and a plethora of other supporting texts shows eternal security for a TRUE believer in Christ.
My emphasis was on the FRUIT of one's life rather than just what is verbalized. One's heart determines their course of action; the righteous is contrasted with the wicked shown in passages such as Mark 7:20-23. Christ for the wicked is a means to an end; whether it be financial security (such as for those who buy into the prosperity gospel or are out to borrow money and fleece those who are called to follow passages such as Luke 6:30.) Christ for the righteous on the other hand is God in the flesh and we are compelled through the Spirit and a new heart to serve with love and obedience (See John 14:15 and read rest of the chapter for further context). Again; loving our enemies and dying for them isn't something natural man will do (see Romans 5:7-9). If we understand the indebtedness we have to Christ and not just a band aid for our sin behavior but a death sentence to our SIN NATURE through the new life in Christ we are saved.
Thank you. I'm sorry that you feel that I berate. I get why you might think that I berate, but Truly it's done in LOVE. What I'm Professing is The Truth, you see, everyone is missing The Message! I'm NOT speaking against the holy bible, I'm rebuking Any declarations that a book is God! God is SO MUCH MORE! A book doesn't "bring" anyone closer to God, and you wonder HOW God reveals Himself to people, Romans 2:13-16. And here is The Prophecy from which it came Jeremiah 31:31-34. You think I call the holy bible frivolous? I call the holy bible holy, just, and good. But, I will never call the holy bible God. Everyone is so incensed that their anger is causing them to sin.
Jema, you ask for a Revelation to "prove" that God has sent me with His Message. Well, Christ was asked the same, Luke 11:29-30; so, what is The Sign of Jonah? Jonah hated the Ninevites, so the Ninevites had No reason to listen to Jonah because Jonah made his distaste obvious. The sign of Jonah is God sending a man who is disliked and even hated to people, who dislike and hate him, to declare their destruction. Why? For if the people "Listen" to their hatred then they will not hear God in the message, but if the people "put away" their hatred they may avoid Destruction.
Jema, you ask me to imagine how quarrelsome we would be without the Bible, very quarrelsome indeed; but, I ask you to imagine how MUCH Faith we would have as a consequence. You see, if everyone yells for you to go left, but God's Holy Spirit directs you right, And you obey God, my God, The Wonders we would witness!
Jema, you ask why the people killed Christ. I tell you, it wasn't because they didn't know He was the Messiah! John 3:1-3 the Pharisees killed Christ because He came to take away their power as priests of God; they were necessary to the people because if a person wanted to seek God, they had to go to them. God "did away with this by making All people a holy nation and priests! Put away anger and Listen!
It's not that I don't see what you're getting at, I truly do. But I feel that not many people are getting what I'm saying! I keep getting from people the reasons other translations are inferior, but my point is; Truly, it doesn't matter! To put things in perspective I'll illustrate: More often than not scholar think that the best way to get the true meaning from scripture is to learn and read scripture in its original language. Now, the obvious problem arises, I have to learn the original language, and this takes time. The obvious response to this problem is, "Well, then learn the original language! For if God means so very much to someone then it's a small price to pay!" And, for the worldly wise this answer may seem appropriate, yet the obvious problem is that until I learn and become fluent in the original language I'm in jeopardy of condemnation because I'm ignorant of the truth!
Now, this is an exaggerated situation but my POINT is exemplified: if the Real Truth is only found in a book then one Must have the "right" book. Some will say "Well, that's true because if someone doesn't have the holy bible then how can they KNOW Christ?" To that I say, if someone needs a book to know God then he truly isn't God! My God and Father isn't bound by ANYTHING, least of all a book! Now, the enemy might stir some to think that I speak against the holy bible, I don't. What I speak against is ANY limitation placed upon God! If God can use a demon or a donkey, why would He be limited by a words or a translation? The obvious question to my statement is, "If someone doesn't have the holy bible then how would they hear of Christ?" To that I refer to Proof that God isn't limited by ANYTHING! Romans 2:13-16 This passage is my Evidence that God is FAITHFUL even though we are faithless. And, that is what the holy bible is, evidence, not God. For how did the Gentiles know the law, thought they never had the law? God placed His Law upon their hearts so that they live by It.
Romans 2:17-29 (KJV) 17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
See. Dan, like the SDA sect, interprets it literally differently from you. Actually, they interpret that just like the Pharisees, and Scribes, and Priests, our Lord JESUS also kept the Law of the 10 commandments that GOD gave to Moses and his body-the people of Israel- to keep them.
Paul the Apostle, a former Pharisee extremist, knew very well to distinguish the difference between what GOD gave to Moses and to JESUS, what was given to Moses was the dead letter of the Law, and Israel was as always a simply sinful nation, but what was given to JESUS is the Spirit of the Law, the only one capable of giving life to the disciples of Him, JESUS really FULFILLED the Law. GOD is Spirit.
By the way, the body without the Spirit is dead ( James 2:26), the dead do not praise the Lord ( Psalm 119:17), so the keepers (Jews or Gentiles) of the dead letter of the Law of Moses that lasted until John the Baptist as JESUS warned, they all are dead, and they do not praise the Lord at all, they do not believe in the revelation and determination of JESUS that the dead letter of the Law given to Moses lasted only and only until John the Baptist. period
The heavens(the 1st and 2nd heavens, i.e. the Dispensations of the Old and New Testaments(the 3rd heaven shall be still established- Luke 20:35-36, among other biblical references) and the earth(the current rebel Israel), which are now, by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Romans 2:12&14
12 For as many as have sinned without Law(the Gentiles) shall also PERISH without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be JUDGED by the Law;
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the Law, do by nature the things contained in the Law, these, having not the Law, are a Law unto themselves:
13 (For not the hearers of the Law are just before GOD, but the doers of the Law shall be justified.
Get ready
When Paul wrote about the Gentiles & their law & conscience ( Romans 2:14,15), he was referring to humanity's inner 'coding' in the conscience by which they know the right & proper things to do (in relation to each other & before an unseen God). These never received any of God's Laws, but their hearts will be judged because they couldn't even obey the dictates of their own consciences. So, both the Jew (with the Law), and the Gentile (without the Law, but having that inward law operating), stand condemned for their sins. The battle wasn't "between God & the Devil in having the dominion of the people", for Israel could never obey the Law anyway, as Satan would always have the victory. The battle was within Israel's heart - a heart of sin, subject to sin's demands upon them, & given over to Satan. See Paul's account of this in Romans 7:7-14 (the Law revealed his sin; he then died spiritually because of it - nothing to do with God's battles). Instead of fighting the Devil for souls, God provided His Own Sacrifice & His Own Spirit to redeem sinners.
You mentioned 'interpretation by the Spirit' & then "they died by the letterincluding the gods". Do you actually understand Psalm 82:6,7 & Isaiah 41:23, when you write these things?
Greetings in Christ JESUS
In fact it is very sad, and it is happening in whole world, and the worst it to still come for all nations. Read what JESUS said and warning the whole world by His word: Luke 21:22-36. Take a look.
By the way, there is no effect without cause. See this one example below, among many other since ancient time:
2 Chronicles 36:14-16
14 Moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and polluted the house of the Lord which he had hallowed in Jerusalem.
15 And the Lord GOD of their fathers sent to them by His messengers, rising up betimes, and sending; because He had compassion on His people, and on his dwelling place:
16 But they mocked the messengers of GOD, and despised His words, and misused His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people,till THERE WAS NO REMEDY. (Now it is not and will not be different, THERE IS NO REMEDY, unfortunately.)
Romans 2:5-11
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
2Peter 4:17-18
17 The time is come that Judgment must begin at the house of GOD: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of GOD?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
VIII. SECTION OUTLINE OF THE BOOK OF ROMANS:
INTRODUCTION: ( Romans 1:1-17)
The first part of the book is the doctrine of the Christian faith, which is Romans Chapter 1 Verse 18 through Chapter 11 Verse 36. The introduction is the first 17 verses.
And that introduction is divided into three parts:
Romans 1:1-7 - Paul's Position in Ministry
Romans 1:8-15 - Paul's Plan for Ministry
Romans 1:16-17 - Paul's Perception of Ministry.
Now believe it or not, embedded, and I emphasize the word embedded, but in these 17 verses are three important doctrines. They are the doctrine of Jesus Christ, the doctrine of ministry, and the doctrine of the gospel. These are all found in these first 17 verses. In fact, every verse, even the introduction can be considered doctrine.
IX. THE DOCTRINE OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH. ( Romans 1:18-11:36)
In Romans Chapter 1 Verse 18 through to the end of Chapter 11 (there are 16 Chapters in Romans), but Chapter 1 Verse 18 through the end of Chapter 11 is the doctrinal section, specifically to present the doctrine of the Christian faith.
Indictment - The Doctrine of Condemnation ( Romans 1:18 - 3:20). The first part is indictment. It is the doctrine of condemnation. I'm sure we all love to study about that! "Come and let me show you how condemned you are!" Isn't that nice!
And that's divided up into three sections:
Romans 1:18-32 - The Prosecution Against the Gentiles
Romans 2:1-3:8 - The Prosecution Against the Jews
Romans 3:9-20 - The Prosecution Against all Mankind
The prosecution against the Gentiles. It is a fascinating study. You and I are Gentiles. Most Gentiles have not had exposure to the Old Testament or Judaism or Jewish ministry or teaching at all. We're kind of like the "Heinz 57" variety. We all come from different religious system backgrounds, and we are the Gentiles.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9) NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.
10)For we are his workmanship, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS "UNTO GOOD WORKS", which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11)Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13)But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off ARE MADE NIGH BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.
THIS IS MARVELOUS SAYING! HERE'S WHERE YOU SEE THE CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART AS MENTIONED IN ROMANS 2:26-29.
"Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. ( In these verses Jew is not mentioned to describe an ethnic group but rather to describe the performance and seal of the cutting away the flesh.)
WE GENTILES ARE BROUGHT NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST, NOT CIRCUMCISION OF THE FLESH THAT RESPRESENTS THE JEW AND ALL OF THEIR WRITTEN ARTICLES WHEREBY THEY WERE COMMANDED. ( We're joined by the promise given to Abraham
Galatians 3:14-18.
Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: FOR IF THERE HAD BEEN A LAW GIVEN WHICH COULD HAVE GIVEN LIFE, VERILY RIGHTEOUSNESS SHOULD HAVE BEEN BY THE LAW.
God bless.