Discuss Revelation 7

  • Chris - In Reply - 2 weeks ago
    Hello Bennymkje. Just to clarify, I am not a KJB Online Moderator nor representing a denomination. I am, as you, S. Spencer and most others here, simply believers & lovers of the Word of God who want to help others with their questions or provide input for consideration and discussion. What we have done (as any other who wishes to do here) is to provide an answer to Tdianne's question, which we have done as from God's Word. Now, whether our answer is incorrect, according to your own belief & you then provide your own answer, is for Tdianne to discern, study & digest. So, that is one side of this thread: to answer Tdianne. The other side is whether there should be a further discussion between us on the issues that arise resulting from our often very different biblical hermeneutics.

    I could use any of your submissions as examples, but just taking a quick one from this comment: "Did he (St. John) hear with his physical ears or with the ear of faith?" My answer would be a clear, "with his physical ears". Why? Because the Scriptures tell us so ( Revelation 7:1 "I SAW four angels"; Revelation 7:4 "I HEARD the number"). John believed the vision he saw & the words he heard were real, & not just in a dream, a trance or wishful thinking. Now, if you believe that this understanding is incorrect & yours is correct (i.e. 'God isn't giving news of the physical earth and gossip about who shall make the list', etc.), then the burden of proof rests with you as to how you arrive at your conclusion, for clearly that is not what the Word gives us. If John heard "with the ear of faith", how was this faith exercised, when he stated that his vision & hearing were actually real? I realize that "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen", but did John express such faith here when the vision & the words given to him did not require faith to believe that they were real, but only to receive & record it for us?
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 weeks ago
    Hi Tdianne.

    I agree with Brother Chris.

    The group you have here in Revelation 7:2-8 is 12000 Jews out of each of the 12 tribes of Israel as mentioned in vs 4 "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

    And the tribes are listed and divided in the following verses.

    This group is sealed by God in will be on earth serving during the tribulation period. The Church would have already been raptured.

    Tdianne you won't find in the Bible where it says "only 144,000 people are going to heaven" because it's not in the Bible!

    This is the Jehovah Witness beliefs.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses started in 1870 by Charles Taze Russell.

    In the beginning it was just a few of them and they claimed that only a 144,000 go to heaven and the rest would inherit the Earth.

    The problem is they have outgrown the number, now it's millions of them.

    They believe they are the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation and they were sealed to preach the Kingdom has come.

    I hope that helps.

    If you have anymore questions on this group let us know.

    God bless.
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 weeks ago
    Hello Tdianne. The 144,000 you read about, is found in Revelation 7:2-8 (the sealing of God's servants & their origin) and Revelation 14:1-5 (these who were "the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb" (v4)).

    When we come to this Book of the Revelation, there will always be many opinions about the people, events, & timing of their appearance, since much of Revelation is still future. But if we go by what we have been given in these passages, we note that this great number of people are from the twelve tribes of Israel, they are God's servants, undefiled, and they stand with Jesus on Mt. Zion (alluding to Jesus' Second Coming to rule upon the Earth).

    These were redeemed as first fruits among men, and yet in Revelation 7:9, John the Revelator sees 'a great multitude without number from all nations also standing before God's Throne & before the Lamb, worshipping God'. So it seems clear that the 144,000 are distinct as those from the tribes of Israel, and there are also those of the Gentile nations, all whom will stand with Jesus in Jerusalem in that coming day. Whether any part of these passages indicate that there is also worship by these in Heaven (& then on Earth), or the specific timing of when these Jews are sealed by God or do His bidding on Earth, are all open to conjecture as what John sees, he brings to us. What John hasn't been told (or shown), would leave both him & us in ignorance to all the specifics. And so we read what we've been given & we should allow the Holy Spirit to guide & comfort our hearts in both the known & unknown.
  • Oseas - 1 month ago
    Revelation 11:15 and 18

    15...The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

    18 And the nations were(WILL BE) angry, and GOD's WRATH is come ... and should destroy them which destroy the earth.

    The message above was written around 95AD to be LITERALLY fulfilled in the future( Revelation 1:1) , and now, even now, from now on, the prophecy will LITERALLY be executed, for GOD is wrathed against all nations and they will be destroyed, include the current Israel, and only and only will be saved a remnant of Israel- Micah 7:18-20, in fact only 144K will be saved- Revelation 7:1-8. And the others?

    The others? Matthew 23:33-35

    33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers (why serpents? why generation of vipers? The answer is in John 8:44.Take a look), how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

    34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

    35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

    The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?

    Get ready
  • Richard H Priday - 2 months ago
    Trumpet judgment #1

    "The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up." ( Revelation 8:7).

    This and the next 3 trumpets seems to be what the 144,000 were sealed to protect them against. Revelation 7:3 says: Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

    Trumpets 2 and 3 discuss the destruction of 1/3 of the sea in regard to life and commerce; as well as a third of the waters of the earth made bitter. The fourth trumpet gets into one third of the day AND night having no light. This certainly will trump any so called eclipse sign of God as it will be truly frightening. Clearly something will be blocking light from above the earth's atmosphere maybe related to what crashes into the sea in the earlier trumpet.

    The 1/3 mentioned here and later on in the sixth trumpet judgment is almost certainly related to the judgment to come on the 1/3 of the angels that fell with Lucifer that are to be cast down on the earth. Isaiah 24:21 says And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

    In the fifth trumpet; we see the first judgment of demons that are directly affecting mankind. In this case torment only was allowed; and death withheld somehow. Immediately following this we have the event of the two prophets being killed; put on display and resurrected as proven by this verse: One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. ( Revelation 9:12). I STRONGLY suspect that these individuals will be convinced once the Antichrist beast is "resurrected" that he both causes their suffering to cease and also that their inability to die will be proof that they are IMMORTAL because of the power OVER Apollyon ( Rev. 9:11) WITH THE MARK.
  • Richard H Priday - 2 months ago
    Matthew 24:13-14 state: But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

    On face value; this verse has two interpretations; first it shows that someone enduring to the end of their natural life on earth and passes away BEFORE the Rapture will be saved (spiritually); OR that he who endures to the end of the TRIBULATION will be saved

    PHYSICALLY if they survive until the Second Coming. This also could have a third meaning; of course the spiritual salvation of those who hold out during the Tribulation proclaiming faith and are martyred. The SECOND verse (14) makes these interpretations stand because it could refer to all nations hearing the Gospel THIS SIDE of the Rapture; or all hearing when the two prophets speak to the ENTIRE WORLD along with the 144,000 witnesses and the countless multitude of martyred saints results. I am under the assumption that both of these statements are equally true; because we are closer every day to every nation hearing the Gospel; but it isn't being broadcast simultaneously to all as no doubt it will be when the two prophets are seen worldwide (See Revelation 11:10-11)

    The concept of being preserved FROM and preserved THROUGH trials and tribulations is a common theme throughout the Bible.

    The fact that we see people from every language tribe and nation ( Revelation 7:9 and following verses in that chapter) shows that God will not allow mankind to use anywhere near its entire arsenal of nuclear or other weapons as it already is enough to kill everyone in the world many times over.

    The main point in that regard is that in the conflagration of nations over and over again GOD is mentioned as destroying enemies; and those who survive are well aware that the true Lord of heaven and earth is rendering this retribution as we see clearly from the statements made by the world hiding from Him during the sixth Seal.
  • Oseas - 3 months ago
    Ronald Whittemore

    Paul prophesied:1Tessalonians 4:15

    15We say unto you by the Word of the Lord,that we which are alive and remain unto the COMING of the Lord shall not prevent (precede) them which are asleep.

    (Comment:Daniel prophesied:Dan.12:1

    - At that time(END of Time) shall Michael stand up to fight against the red Dragon,whose satanic religious body has 7 heads,10 horns and a TAIL- Revelation 12:9-12;

    - then there shall be a time of trouble (great tribulation), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time( Matthew 24:21);

    - and at that time(current time)thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book ( Revelation 7:1-14).

    Furthermore,in this current time or now,even now,from now on,the Devil shall be cast down into the bottomless pit(Re.20:1-3).

    Daniel 12:2-THERE WILL BE RESURRECTION SIMULTANEOUSLY

    And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake(according to the prophecy of Isaiah 26:19-21.Take a look), some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    Comment: So, there also shall be resurrection in fulfillment of prophecy of Isaiah combined with 1Thessalonians 4:16, as follow:

    16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout (shall descend from the 3rd heaven,we believers are still in the 2nd heaven-Ephesians1:3-8 combined with Philippians 3:20-21),with the voice of the archangel-MICHAEL- , and with the trump of GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    1 Thes. 4:17 - Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds( Isaiah 60:8, and 1Corinthians 15:51 combined with Philippians 3:20-21 and Revelation 5:8-14), to meet the Lord in the air(in the 3rd heavenly environment-3rd heaven-far above of the current second heaven- Luke 20:35-36 combined with Matthew 25:6): and so shall we ever be with the Lord.(Where?- Revelation 11:15-18 and Re. 5:10, and Matthew 5:5, and John 17:24. Take a look).

    That's for your meditation
  • Oseas - 5 months ago
    Greetings Adam

    Good question. We are face to a deep and terrible puzzle/enigma. The most important is the Truth. GOD is Truth. The Word is GOD. The Word is from everlasting to everlasting. The GOD's people needs to investigate and seek Truth.

    Replying to your question, I must say that NAME does not exist in the original Hebrew Scripture, it was simply added.

    Remember, JESUS said: Re.22:18 -> I testify unto every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, GOD shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.

    What matters and prevails is the pure Word of GOD. Isaiah 12:3KJV says: Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation. (Jo.7:38-> He that believes on me, as the Scripture has said,out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. Compare with John 5:37-47)

    4 And in that Day (in this current Day, the seventh and last Day) shall ye say, Praise the Lord, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.(This will LITERALLY be fulfilled: Revelation 7:1-8. 144K)

    5 Sing unto the Lord; for he hath done excellent things: this is known in all the earth. -> ( Revelation 11:15-18, among other biblical references.Take a look)

    6 Cry out and shout, you inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee. -> (Re.1:7-8-> 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, sais the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. ->7 Behold,He comes with clouds;and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

    GOD BLESS
  • Oseas - 6 months ago
    Jema

    Greetings in Christ JESUS

    Thank you for your reply of yesterday.I highlighted six points of your post to comment them,as follow:

    1st point:

    What will happen from now on in the middle east and around the world as a whole, it is written and prophesied by the Word of GOD.Remember: 1The.5:2-3:->2 For yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them,as travail upon a woman with child ( Revelation 12:1-5 will LITERALLY be fulfilled);and they(Israel-the Jews) shall not escape.(EXCEPT the sealed 144k-12K of each tribe- Revelation 7:1-8 and 14:1-5). And also the LITERAL fulfillment of 2The.2:1-13, mainly verses 11-12:-->11 And for this cause GOD shall send them STRONG DELUSION,that they should believe a lie:(These are lost).12 That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth,but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    2nd point:

    Yes,Israel will loose support, remember that GOD is in control of History,nothing random happens.In the first moment Israel have received all backing of their allies,but they will loose a lot of support,as you said.And when this becomes apparent ARE NOT the enemies of Israel that will try to take them over, as you think, no, it is not,when Israel loose the support,then will manifest their false messiah as was prophesied by my Lord JESUS( John 5:43-47),and then begins the LITERAL fullfilment of 2Thessalonians 2:8-12 combined with Revelation 13:11-18, and 13:2 combined with Luke 21:24 and Revelation 11:2,and Daniel 2:40-45 and 12:8-12. GET READY

    3rd point:

    GOD will not intervene to save the physical nation of Israel, quite the opposite, GOD will work according His Word described in the 2nd point above, among many other prophecies against the rebel Israel.

    Only the 144K sealed of Israel will be saved.The others are lost, for ever. Revelation 14:18-20 combined with Isaiah 5:1-7.Take a look.

    continues in the next post
  • Oseas - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Momsage

    Revelation 7:1-4 AND 9-12, says:

    1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

    2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living GOD: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

    3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our GOD in their foreheads.

    4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. (These sealed 144K of each tribe of Israel are the remnant saved of the condemnation and eternal perdition- Luke 3:7 combined with 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12, among countless other biblical references).

    On the other hand:

    -verses 9-12 combined with Revelation 19:6-10

    9 I beheld, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

    10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our GOD which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

    11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped GOD,

    12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and Glory, and Wisdom, and Thanksgiving, and Honour, and Power, and Might, be unto our GOD for ever and ever. Amen.

    Momsage, the question is:

    Who are the great multitude, which no man can number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stand before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands? And they cry with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our GOD which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

    Yes, who are them, Momsage?
  • Oseas - 6 months ago
    Re.12:10-17KJV 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven (heaven?Eph.1:3.Take a look), Now is come salvation, and strength,and the Kingdom of our GOD,and the power of His Christ:for the accuser of our brethren is cast down,which accused them before our GOD day and night.

    11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,and by the word of their TESTIMONY;and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    12Therefore rejoice,ye heavens(heavenly places in Christ JESUS-i.e. the celestial environments of the Old and New Testaments),and ye that dwell in them-the believers-.Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel)and of the sea!(sea/waters=peoples,and NATIONS,and multitudes of all tongues-Gentile peoples-which were deceived by that old serpent that deceives the whole world)for the Devil is come down unto you,having great wrath,because he knows that he has but a short time.13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth(from the heaven- Isaiah 14:12-15),he persecuted the woman...

    14And to the woman were given TWO WINGS of a great eagle(the Old Testament and New Testament-two witnesses of GOD- Revelation 11:3-4.Take a kook),that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place,where she is nourished(by the Old and New Testaments-the Word of GOD,the Scriptures)for a time,and times, and half a time,from the face of the serpent.

    15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman(be careful,don't drink of that water),that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

    16And the earth(144K of Israel- Revelation 7:1-10 and 14:1-5.Take a look)helped the woman(the Lord's Church- John 10:15-16),and the earth opened her mouth,and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. -The testimony of Christ is the Spirit of prophecy-Re.19:10 combined with Ro.8:9-11.GET READY
  • Richard H Priday - 6 months ago
    How to be politically correct about the Rapture.

    "I hope the Lord waits until my kids grow up; get married; etc."

    "I hope the Lord lets me stay until (so and so) becomes a Christian"

    "I'll show 'em; let me be one of the 144,000; or hang out afterwards it can't be that bad at the start..."

    The facetious dialogues suggested above are more are less a compilation of several arguments BELIEVERS have given in my presence in the past when this subject came up. Let us examine them in light of the scriptures...

    First point; in heaven there will be no regret as far as "missing out" on anything this earth had to offer. That is; unless we have squandered the opportunity NOW to witness and do those things which forfeited rewards in light of the admonitions of Revelation 3:11. Our children will be where their angels are already "beholding the Father in heaven continually." ( Matt. 18:10).

    The second argument assumes that God is somehow derelict in His duty to bring the "fullness of the Gentiles in" ( Romans 11:25) which in truth may not occur completely at the Rapture but before the Second Coming. Nonetheless; the multitudes that come to Christ that can't be counted may never have come at least as quickly without the fiery trials the Lord designed to purge out the dross during the Tribulation. ( Revelation 7:9). We should also appreciate the fact in verses such as Psalm 40 which states "many will see and fear" (verse 3). This seems to indicate with the surrounding verses we will be raptured/resurrected from the ground; SURELY the Resurrection of the saints cannot be explained away and will be common knowledge (even if they say the UFO's abducted those raptured it's harder to explain those already deceased).

    The third point is that even in the seal judgments there is a direct opening of these seals by Christ Himself with a fourth of the earth dying (at least) at that time. No one can outplan or outwit God in saving provisions for that time (see James 5:3).
  • Richard H Priday - 7 months ago
    You are a marked man.

    If we compare Revelation 7:3 with the mark of the Beast in Revelation 13:16-17 we see a mark of ownership; in reality representing either God in the first instance; and Satan in the second. The exact appearance of God's mark is not given while that of the Beast is identified in the original language as "chargma" if I have the spelling right. That is something on or just beneath the skin; whether it is a sort of tattoo or computer chip it allows the world to visibly give allegiance to Antichrist.

    God knows the hearts of men; and all those He foreknew to be called and chosen; as well as those who are reprobate or unbelievers. Satan is well aware of who we are as believers; as it is the only threat to his kingdom on earth at present.

    Tne mark of Cain gave him the ability to avenge sevenfold anything done against him. ( Gen. 4:15). This was something identifiable which avoided his immediate demise; perhaps showing the future fulfillment of the mark of the Beast for temporary protection from the executioners and the wrath of men under Satan's pogrom. Following the god of this world always leads to death and destruction of self as well as others. Dying to self to follow Christ brings eternal life.

    Of course it is no fun having a target on our back; even now that the enemy is constantly attempting to fling fiery darts at us ( Ephesians 6:16). We should take heart; as he has no time to waste attacking those who are already in his camp and under his control whose unregenerate hearts are blinded to the glorious gospel of truth ( 2 Cor. 4:4). Absent from the body we are present with the Lord ( 2 Cor. 5:8). God is in charge of the day of our death; the enemy can only be permitted to do anything against us. The final conflagration in Revelation 19 when we return in the armies of heaven with Christ who destroys the Beast and his armies is inevitable; the war is won we just fight battles and skirmishes leading up to His victory.
  • Koosees - In Reply on Revelation 1 - 10 months ago
    Zech 14:16 Those that are left that (still death and sin 1st 1000yrs) go to Heaven. They remain in Heaven for 1000 years. ( Revelation 20:5), Satan locked away for 1000 years ( Revelation 20: 1-4) After 1000 years the ones on earth will be tested when satan is let loose. So who is alive after 1000 years will be tested. They are descendants from Zech 14:16

    Also those that came out of the Great Tribulation ( Revelation 7:14) never hunger nor thirst again. Remain in Heaven with God until it's all said and done.

    So Saints before Jesus who died were in a paradise in the earth. Until Jesus took the keys of death, captives set free

    John 6:36-40 (Jesus the Only way)

    36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

    37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

    39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

    40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    John 6:43-47 (Again, Jesus is the Only way)

    44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him (who believes in Him): and I will raise him up at the last day.

    45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

    46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

    47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. (Atonement of sins, veil torn, Jesus the only way)

    Those who do believed and died, they will rise first. Those who are alive next. Rapture.
  • Richard H Priday - 10 months ago
    OSAS: Serving God.

    Let's step back and think for a moment. What is heaven exactly? Surely a large factor there is that we will SERVE God forever.

    John 12:26 says in KJV: If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

    Let us examine the same verse in the amplified version:

    If anyone serves Me, he must [continue to faithfully] follow Me [without hesitation, holding steadfastly to Me, conforming to My example in living and, if need be, suffering or perhaps dying because of faith in Me]; and wherever I am [in heaven's glory], there will My servant be also. If anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.

    I am not an expert on translations but it would seem eternally serving God is a theme here! Revelation 7:13-15 and Revelation 22:3 make this abundantly clear as to the serving of God eternally of His saints. Worship is also inextricably tied to being a servant; and the ruling and reigning with Christ is part and parcel with the destiny of the church as Kings and Priests before the throne as well ( Revelation 5:10; etal).

    Now as we assess this life; surely we see this attitude of service begins here; and Christ of course laid out the perfect example with His life. Mark 10:45 shows how Christ came not to be served but to serve; if God incarnate followed that principal surely His disciples must do the same.

    As to work in heaven; surely it won't be a drudgery. The curse with the thorns and sweat on the brow will be gone that we inherited in the garden. We won't have unreasonable taskmasters; stressful deadlines; and other difficulties. Work no doubt will be a cooperative effort since we will all be together in performing tasks. No doubt individual things will be suitable for us as well.

    The world at large cannot serve without some benefit for themselves; just like we can't love unconditionally (see Matthew 5:34).

    The last enemy destroyed is deateh (1COR15:26
  • Richard H Priday - 1 year ago
    Basic structure of Revelation

    In this and (let's be honest further sequels) I am setting forth through numerous scripture references the pattern in Revelation. In short we have the first and second halves. In my last posting; I discussed what appears to be the event after the 5th Trumpet and the five months demons torment men. That allows Apollyon to be released; and Revelation 11:14 mentiones the second woe or the sixth trumpet as occuring immediately before the events in Revelation 12 and 13.

    The timing is tricky; but it is interesting to see how if we put a period of months to each series of 7 plagues we end up with 84 months which just happens to be exactly 7 years of 12 months each.

    Going back to my original thought; there is a period where the 144,000 preach and there is a great harvest following them (likely about the time when the 2 witnesses are resurrected they also are raptured: see Revelation 7:9. We see parallels between the time of ministry of 3.5 years and that of Christ's ministry as well as parallels to Elijah when it didn't rain for 3 years. It appears obvious that Elijah is one of the two witnesses.

    What is also interesting is at this darkest moment (at the end of Revelation 11) we see discussion of Christ starting to reign.

    The focus would be on all those in heaven; or the completion of the "firstfruits" and all the saints beginning to rule and reign with Christ. After that statement we see Antichrist given his reign of 3.5 years to mock in a large part what the prophets did when on earth (see Rev. 13:13 and compare with Revelation 11:5).

    Romans 11:25 makes it evident the blindness to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. That could refer to the Rapture (see Psalm 40) or as some say when the rule of the Gentiles comes to a close. In any event; many do wake up; and the third that make it going through the fire are those who of national Israel end up worshipping the true Messiah ( Zech 13:9).
  • Saddle-Shop-Ministries - In Reply on Revelation 21 - 1 year ago
    Hi Natasha St John! If you read in Revelation 7:4-8 It explains that the 144,000 are out of the 12 tribes of Israel. As we read on starting with verse 9 we see that the nations that make up the rest of the world, that have their garments washed white in the blood of the Lamb, are a multitude that no man could number. So the 144,000 are only those that God has sealed, out of the 12 tribes of Israel. Now we know because God's Word is truth and there is a thread in the bible. Isaiah 64:6 says that all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. In Matthew 7:21-23 says that God will say depart from me ye workers of iniquity. Also in

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11 it says, Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. And in Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. So by fallowing the thread of the Bible we can clearly see that the 144,000 are only out of the 12 tribes of Israel, they are washed in the blood of the Lamb and sealed by God. The rest of the world is the multitude that no man can number and is also washed in the blood of Christ Jesus.

    I hope this answers your question.

    I always try to remember these verses; 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

    John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

    Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
  • Chris - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Page 1.

    Thanks Jimbob. Briefly, referring to your points in these two pages.

    a. Acts 2:17-20. If we note from verse 8, the peoples of surrounding nations heard these men speak in their languages, which they had not learned. Then Peter gave them his message: 'what you're hearing is God pouring out His Spirit on men, to which Joel spoke about"in the last days, I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh". This was the beginning of the Last Days & it has been ever since Jesus left this Earth & sent out His promised Spirit. And "they shall prophesy" as well. But the culmination of these Last Days is what you read in verses 19 & 20. And yes, the Comforter was promised to abide with us (the blood-bought Church) forever. But what happens when the Church is no longer here - and that "forever" day has arrived?

    b. Ephesians 1:13 & Revelation 7:3,4 are not the same sealing, by virtue of that act & what is imparted. In the former, it is clearly the Holy Spirit Who seals the believer "Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory (v14)". He marks His Own, He is the "earnest of our inheritance" (Gk. arrabon = an advance part-payment guaranteeing our security), "until the redemption of the purchased possession" (the Holy Spirit remains in us & secures the believer until the redemptive work at the Cross is fully realized, i.e. Christ indeed fully paid the ransom for our redemption - but completed redemption is only realized until the body is returned back to our Redeemer: Romans 8:22,23).

    In the Revelation 7:3,4 account, we are not told what the seal is & how it's applied; at least it seems to be a forehead mark (the Lord's imprint, unlike the false Christ's signature). If one should read this mark to be the Holy Spirit on their foreheads or His indwelling that results in an outward marking, then I have no other comment. All I can glean is that the world is now devoid of the Spirit's Presence & Work.
  • Browneyes878787 - In Reply on Revelation 9 - 1 year ago
    Hello

    how many Christians will be saved during the rapture ? Read Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

    how do u turn ur life to Jesus? By acknowledging and confessing to the Lord that we are sinners in need of his salvation. Inviting him into our lives asking him to take over Nothing fancy nothing complicated

    1 John 1:9

    If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    Romans 10:9 if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved

    BUT KNOW THIS once you make that confession of repentance there's a great celebration in heaven

    Jesus said, "I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents" ( Luke 15:10)

    Praise the Lord I pray the Lord your strength and guidance that he bless you and bring people around you that are after his own heart. God bless
  • Thedorse on Revelation 7 - 1 year ago
    In Genesis, God said Let Us Create Man in Our Own Image. All Things we're Created by God for His Pleasure. So Who is Us ? It's the Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost. In Matthew 3 :: When John the Baptist Baptized Jesus , The Son of God . The Bible says The Holy Ghost like in Acts 2 as Cloven Toungues of Fire is Literally Visible. And He , The Holy Ghost Descends on Jesus like a Dove. As this is Occurring, The Father Speaks from Heaven and says,, This is My Beloved Son in Whom I am Well Pleased. It's Impossible to Argue but Yet People will that All 3 Members of The Godhead are Present. And Each 1 is Completely Separate from the Other. Why is that ? Because They are 3 Separate in the Godhead , but Each is God. I had a Jesus Only Doctrine tell Me one Time when I Brought these Scriptures to His Attention. His Response was " Don't You think God could Stand on Earth and Talk to Himself from Heaven.. " And I said " Sure He could, but why would God Use Trickery and Deception. When He is not a Man to Lie or Repent. " I have never Understood the Conflict in Something that is a ABC Type Thing, a Fundamental to Learn Teaching. Why Man has went back and Forth, Wrote Books, Formed Entire Doctrines over Scripture a Child could Grasp. None of this is going to Disqualify Anyone from Heaven. But why are We Straining at Gnats and Swallowing Camels. Jesus is Coming like a Thief in the Night. But there is Good News, So We Must Always Remember that All Who Call Upon The Name of The Lord Shall be Saved. Amen.

    Biscoe House of Mercy YouTube videos::
  • Crystalfaithe on Revelation 7 - 1 year ago
    And shall wipe all the tears from their eyes.
  • Anonymous - In Reply - 1 year ago
    If you believe in the rapture, please tell me how that happens. Is your group really first, even before the 1st resurrection? Please help me understand the timing of your rapture, how it fits in.

    God is the God of all, a fair God, and at the appointed time everyone will receive the portion they deserve to make them whole. It has to be by the book. Modern day Israel is revealed in Revelation 7:9. That indicates God's mission to spread Israel's seed to the 4 corners of the earth is complete. Israel is everyone and everyone is Israel.
  • Roman - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Alex,

    I'm going to shift your post a little and see if this interests you. Speaking of Revelation 12, specifically Revelation 12:6 & Revelation 12:14: The woman represents the 144,000 sealed saints ( Revelation 7:4), BOTH are protected for a thousand two hundred and threescore days. Only the saints are officially sealed. It is a continued allegory describing the saints vs the man of sin, end-times, etc.

    The saints are so unbelievably important, yet underrated. They are the first fruits, set apart from the 5.5 billion day of the Lord survivors. The saints are the ONLY first resurrection participants, tasked with healing people, the earth and administering to Christ. The rest sleep till called at the second resurrection.

    The saints are featured in 7 Chapters of Revelation, hidden in allegory, and referred to. People then add characters to the narrative and always miss that the sealed saints in Revelation 7:4, before the sixth trumpet, are the same saints in heaven at the seventh trumpet, Revelation 7:9-14. "They came out of the great tribulation". AND this occurs at the exact same time God calls up the two witnesses, Revelation 11:12. The saints and the two witnesses are one and the same!!! You will not see the saints without the witnesses from BOTH houses of Israel (Israel & Judah). Don't get the "two men" allegory wrong. Forget about Moses and Elijah or Enoch, that is a tired excuse for filling in the answer with anything that will suffice. After Solomon, Israel was split in two nations, hence, two men. The two candlesticks and two olive trees that stand before God are God's pride and joy, the whole house of Israel.
  • Baker - In Reply on Revelation 7 - 1 year ago
    Dear Adam , and T.Levis

    I've read where you both stand , but It is from experience that when this question is asked, the intention is to use it as support and or argument (for) the pre-trib rapture , either for now or in future discussions . As we , and they know , Either word is not in scripture , therefore claiming the method used for support of the Trinity (The Godhead) which is a Triune God , for the rapture . where scripture gets twisted .
  • GiGi - In Reply on Revelation 7 - 1 year ago
    T. Levis

    I do not think that describing the Godhead as a Trinity isolates believers. I think that it clarifies what Scripture speaks about the Godhead. Adam has often given many Scriptures that speak to the Godhead as a Trinity or Persons who is One in His Being. There is nothing about what Adm has said that necessarily isolates people.

    The Reformers you mentioned upheld the Scriptural teaching of the Godhead being a Trinity.

    I recognize that there are some who adhere to the Oneness doctrine you are speaking of, but the vast majority of Christians now and through the centuries attest to believing that the Godhead is a Trinity. I believe it was Tertullian who first use the term "Trinity".

    Paul mentions often to those he is addressing in his epistles concerning holding to doctrines that were taught by the apostles. So, there is nothing wrong with speaking about doctrinal teachings that can be supported by Scripture.
  • Adam - In Reply on Revelation 7 - 1 year ago
    Hi Estelle, the trinity (or Godhead) is mentioned in verses like 1 John 5:7.

    The Godhead is mentioned in verses like Romans 1:20.

    The KJV doesn't have the word trinity, but "Godhead" and uses 'we' and 'us' plural in places even though God is one. Galatians 3:20

    Some unfortunately use this as a weapon to attack who God is, so its worth noting that the word Bible isn't in the Bible either, but that doesn't mean it isn't one. The KJV doesn't have the word demons, but that doesn't mean there's no demons. It doesn't have "labor", "encouragement", "suicide", "anxiety", "honor", but they are still real and true subjects discussed within. So for any onlookers with questionable motives in their heart, this busts one of the most common strawman arguments dishonestly made against God.

    God bless.
  • Estelle on Revelation 7 - 1 year ago
    Is the word Trinity in the Bible??? If so please tell me where that scripture is
  • T Levis - In Reply on Ezekiel 45 - 1 year ago
    Ezekiel 44, Ezekiel 44:2-3, possibly the prophecy for Luke 19:28-48, Luke 21, notice Luke 21:37, Matthew 21, Mark 11, Notice Mark 11:16, Mark 12 Jesus still in the Temple Mark 13, notice Mark 13:1,3, as noted Jesus went & left, the same direction. John 10:23,

    Ezekiel 44:16,17, Revelation 7 note Revelation 7:14,15,

    Ezekiel 47:1-10, healing living water, John 7:38, John 4:11,13,14, Matthew 9:35, Fishers, Ezekiel 47:9,10, Jeremiah 16:16, Matthew 4:19, Mark 1:17,

    If you look at Ezekiel 1:1,2,3, they were already going into captivity as Prophesied by Isaiah 39:1-7, 2Kings 24:15, Jeremiah 52:31, before Daniel, Ezra & Nehemiah before the return & rebuilding, Ezekiel 48 - end; might have been the divine blueprint for the temple that was rebuilt before Jesus was born

    Matthew 1:17

    Hopefully these are helpful
  • T Levis - In Reply on Revelation 7 - 1 year ago
    Going back to Genesis 49, note Genesis 49:17, also Genesis 48, note Genesis 48:5,6

    Deuteronomy 29:18-21, Judges 1:34, Judges 5:17, Judges 18, 1Kings 12:30, 2Kings 10:29, Amos 8:14,

    Revelation 7:9-17,

    Hope this helps explain for understanding
  • Rita Poe on Revelation 7 - 1 year ago
    what about the tribe of Dan


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