John 11:26 says... And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
A true believer is "crucified with Christ" and it is not I who live ( Gal. 2:20). Our experience will differ somewhat in timing from those already asleep ( 1 Thess. 4:16). As Hebrews 9:27 states we are all to "die once and face the judgment". Also it states being "absent from the body is present with the Lord." ( 2 Cor. 5:8). This necessitates the "Bema Seat" judgment to occur at death; or in the case of those still alive and raptured up; at that time. So in a sense; it will be in completing the death process of the sanctification which ultimately brings us eternal life.
I have often reminded people that martyrdom should it come is the end of a life of sanctification. In some ways that would be much like the Rapture in that there is a sudden end to our time on earth. It is possible someone could be martyred after a rather poor testimony and lukewarmness in this life; but more often scripturally at least it seems the persecutions and sufferings prepare a person for that end and death is simply a final display of Christ's holiness in the life of a saint. These truths are what makes all the claimed dreams about the rapture seem suspect. For one thing the Resurrection of the just is rarely even mentioned even though scripture states it to be the first thing immediately followed it seems by the Rapture of those still alive at the time. Some debate if Revelation 4:1 is indeed a foreshadowing of the Rapture; I would say it is and certainly the vision of Christ in the first chapter and his state of being as though dead will be our own condition when first beholding His glory. There is much ado about deceased relatives and other glories of a heavenly place and whatever is stated scripturally about that is true but of course the majesty of God overshadows that. Whatever the trip up is; the Bema Seat takes front & center
Book of Revelation is in three parts (past, past/present, future)
Revelation 1:19 ''write down the things which thou hast seen(past Rev 1:1-18), the things which are (past/present Chapters 2,3 letters to the churches in Johns time and for us today to know) and the things that shall be hereafter' (Future Rev 4:1 - Rev 19:11-21;Chapter 20,21,22)
Rev 4:1 (start of tribulation) - Rev 11:3;11:7/ Rev 13:5; Rev 13:7 (middle) - Rev 19:11-21 (end of Trib)
Matthew 24:3-14 tells us signs of the end before Tribulation.
End: From a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid) -- + continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost. a. termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be, (in the Greek writings always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time
Matthew 24:15-16 is speaking to those in judea near the end of Tribulation. Mark 13:14
Matthew 24:15 When ye (who read this during trib) therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"
Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:" (THOSE IN JUDAEA DURING TRIBULATION)
Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains (mountains of Moab, Southern Jordan)
Well, now will be established the 3rd heaven in this WORLD, i.e. the 3rd celestial environment where John Apostle was caught up as a guest- Revelation 4:1- and Paul Apostle was caught up in vision, and through revelations of the Lord he heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 2 Corinthians 12:2-3
Again Luke 20:35-36: They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain(to reach) that WORLD(i.e. the 3rd HEAVEN to be established here in the Earth- Matthew 5:5 combined with Revelation 5:v.10 among others references), and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are EQUAL unto the angels; and are the children of GOD(John1:v.12), being the children of the resurrection. And 1Cor. 15:22 reveals: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Therefore, in this new millennium, there will be another NATURE, i.e. the NATURE of all things will be changed here in this Earth which was CURSED by GOD because of man, so instead of the CURSE, the blessing. This will be LITERALLY fulfilled from now on. Remember: The Word is GOD, the Word is self-executing according was preestablished and revealed by the Word of GOD.
Philippians 3:20-21 - 20 Our conversation is in heaven(current 2nd heaven, understand?); FROM WHENCE also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body( 1 Corinthians 15:51-55.Take a look.)-, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (the nature will be changed)
1 Cor.15:24-27
24 The END cometh when He shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father; when He shall have PUT DOWN ALL RULE and ALL AUTHORITY and power( Revelation 11:15-18. Take a look)
25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Ps.97:2-4: -2 ... Righteousness and Judgment are the foundation of GOD's Throne. 3 A fire goeth before Him, and burneth up His enemies round about. 4 His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw and trembled.
Yeah, Righteousness and Judgment are the foundation of GOD's Throne, both Righteousness and Judgment are implicit in the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD, self-executing.
Revelation 4:4 - And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. "GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son,whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also GOD made the worlds- Hebrews 1:1-2;
And who are the 24 elders clothed in white raiment and sat on 24 thrones? They are the 24 messengers of GOD's Word. GOD the Father, beginning by Moses, has already crowned them. And they are already enthroned around GOD's Throne clothed in white raiment and they have on their heads CROWNS of gold.
GOD did choose and elected 24 men unto which He would reveal His Word to write the books of the Old Testament - the first Covenant - the first heavenly place in Christ. (Now we are in the 2nd heavenly place in Christ, the 2nd Covenant, the Covenant of the New Testament - Ephesians 1:3. Take a look)
That said, here goes the 24 elders showed in Revelation 4:v.4
1 - Moses
2 - Joshua
3 - Samuel
4 - Ezra
5 - Nehemiah
6 - Job
7 - David
8 - Solomon
9 - Isaiah
10 - Jeremiah
11 - Ezekiel
12 - Daniel
13 - Hosea
14 - Joel
15 - Amos
16 - Obadiah
17 - Jonah
18 - Micah
19 - Nahum
20 - Habakkuk
21 - Zephaniah
22 - Haggai
23 - Zechariah
24 - Malachi
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of GOD sent forth into all the earth. Praised be our GOD. Amen.
Resurrection, when the dead in Christ rise first. Who will teach during Tribulation? I am praying and 'quit the sin business' a preacher said once. So I can be found worthy to escape these things ( Revelation 4:1 - Revelation 19:11-21 ) Grace, Salvation and the Holy Spirit does remain before during and for some after Tribulation. When sharing those scriptures, it was a reply but I realize now I did not reply to the post. Advice taken is a wise thing to do, so I am all ears or in this case eyes, God Bless. We got to help each other, even if I am wrong . But we must not strife but get it right with each other out of love for one another. 2 Timothy 2:15-18 was just something I shared, to encourage others that we should not argue. Heb 3:15 God Bless you for that and continue to.
You said that you "don't know if the angels can see the Father, or if for all eternity they saw the Godhead in the Son even before He was incarnated".
Remember that John the Baptist was an angel( Isaiah 40:1 to 14 reveal who is his person combined with Malachi 3:1), angels are born by the Power of the Word of GOD, by prophecy, even our Lord JESUS affirmed this( Matthew 11:9-10), and John the Baptist, the angel of the Lord, knew JESUS before His birth, as even he testified: John the Apostle wrote about the testimony of John the Baptist, saying: John 1:18 - 18 No man hath seen GOD at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.
By the way, we must know with certainty through the Word of GOD that the TRUE BELIEVERS will be angels of GOD from now on, by the transformation and changing of the nature of them all, the Word of GOD will do it in the true believers, do you understand? Because they was born from GOD-from the Word-the Word is GOD- Philippians 3:20-21 combined with 1 Corinthians 15:51-55 and Romans 8:18-25, Believest thou this?)
Our Lord JESUS said: Luke 20:35-36-
35 - They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world (next world-the Kingdom of GOD- Revelation 11:15-18) and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are EQUAL UNTO THE ANGELS; and are the children of GOD, being the children of the resurrection.
Matthew 25:29 - For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Matthew 25:4-6
4 - The wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and SLEPT. (Similar Genesis 2:21-25)
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; GO YE OUT(yes, GO OUT)TO MEET HIM.
The beauty of the cross is perhaps no better described than in Isaiah 52:14. His appearance or "visage" was so marred from the beatings and other injuries before the crucifixion that Jesus was hardly recognizable as a man. But by His stripes; we are healed ( Isaiah 53:5 just a few verses later). He has brought us beauty from ashes ( Isaiah 61:3) which in context means Israel will have restitution after suffering judgment. But God in the flesh resulted not in admiration but in a man of sorrows acquainted with grief ( Isaiah 53:3).
God's awe inspiring attributes are seen in the visions of the Lord as seen by Isaiah 6; Ezekiel 1:22 and associated verses in Revelation 15:2; etal; and Daniel 10:6; etal). The true beauty of God; of course ties in with His selflessness; agape love and other characteristics that are above storge; Philleo and eros type of human love. Satan himself was a most beautiful creation as Lucifer ( Ezekiel 28:12) UNTIL he fell. Now the beauty is vanity as it is with any fallen creature who pride has allowed to contaminate. God Himself deserves worship and is not being arrogant in stating this desire but there are no verses I am aware of that state God is PROUD of being the God of all creation; He is supreme and in that sense better than anyone else; but He calls His followers by name and "friends" ( John 15:15). This makes Him the perfect Father.
God created all things for His good pleasure including man ( Revelation 4:11). No doubt Adam and Eve in a sinless state were beautiful; and perhaps still externally appeared that way after the fall. All things were fearfully and wonderfully made ( Psalm 139:14) but man has sought out many inventions (see Ecclesiastes 7:29). 1 Chronicles 16:27 talks of the majesty of God which no doubt incorporates beauty as seen in the creation. This makes man without excuse; as Romans 1 and Psalm 19 make clear.
God's beauty is more than skin deep and indescribable as all other traits.
Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast SEEN, and the things WHICH ARE, and the things which shall be HEREAFTER;
Things which thou hast SEEN ( Rev 1:1-18) things which ARE ( Revelation 2,3) things which shall be HEREAFTER ( Revelation 4:1)
John wrote down what he had seen, in the order in which he saw them.
REV 2,3 'WHICH ARE' CHURCHES IN JOHNS TIME/CHURCHES TODAY
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
Rapture 'seizing and carrying off'
There have been raptures already just by the definition above, more yet to come.
Enoch, Elijah, Captives free in the OT are 'raptures'
RAPTURES DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION.
(Disclaimer: John wrote it) Those who repent during tribulation before the 7th seal, later 144,000 and Two witnesses. Salvation will be available to those who ask for God's grace before the 7th seal though they must endure the first 6 seals.
REV 4:1 RAPTURE/TRIB (Dead in Christ rise first, they which are alive) 6 SEALS ( REV 7:14 Great multitude..'out of' meaning within. Two Witnesses, 144,000 man child)
TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION SEEK HIM WHILE HE MAY BE FOUND!
Mark 13:32 -But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
RAPTURE/START OF TRIBULATION ( Rev 4:2/19:11-21) 2ND COMING OF CHRIST
Chapter 7 starts 'after these' so chapters 4,5,6 have happened.
LITTLE HORN UPROOTS 3 NATIONS, AND OTHER 6 FALL IN LINE. AFTER 3.5 YEARS OF WAR.
Zechariah 14:16-23 - After Tribulation 'Those that left' 'year to year' for 1000 years. Will live, age, multiply and die. In Heaven until 1000 years are up. These nations satan will be let loose to deceive the nations one last time.
NOT THOSE RAPTURED SAINTS WITH CHRIST 2ND Coming, THEY WILL BE ETERNAL
Revelation 1:1 THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST ........ and he (the Spirit of Christ) SENT and SIGNIFIED IT (the REVELATION of himself) to his servant John:
Most think Revelation is a prophecy of anti-christ; even though, the WORD says it's the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST.
The ENTIRE word of God is the voice and words of JESUS CHRIST, different men through the ages have taken pen in hand and recorded the WORDS of Christ, yet, they are Christ's words, not the words of the one who penned them.
These are Christ's words, REVEALING himself to the carnal mind of man:
Revelation 4:7 And the FIRST BEAST was like a lion, and the SECOND BEAST was like a calf, and the THIRD BEAST had a face as a man, and the FORTH BEAST was like a flying eagle.
Are these FOUR BEAST four different things, or, are they four descriptions REVEALING JESUS CHRIST?
Scripture says, NO VERSE is the private interpretation of the verse itself, but has to be understood by applying other verses of scripture to understand.
We have to find the interpretation of Revelation 4:7 in other scriptures to understand.
Numbers 24:7 He (the Spirit) shall pour the water out of his (Christ's) buckets, and his (Christ's) SEED shall be as many waters (peoples, tongues, and nations) and his (the Spirit's) king (Christ) shall be higher than Agag, and his (Christ's) kingdom shall be exalted.
Numbers 24:8 God brought him (Christ) out of Egypt; he (Christ) hath as it were the strength of a unicorn (ox): he (Christ) shall eat up the nations his (Christ's) enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows (words).
Numbers 24:9 He (Christ) crouched, he lay down LIKE A LION, and as a GREAT LION: who shall stir him (Christ, a lion) up? Blessed is he that blesseth thee (Christ, the Spirit of prophecy), and cursed is he that curseth thee (Christ, the spirit of prophecy).
LOOK to the scriptures; all FOUR BEAST, the lion, the calf, the man, the eagle, are CHRIST.
This is probably one of the most important facts that we need to know, just in understanding Revelation, and the various teachings that we hear about the book of Revelation, which I'll get to here in a moment.
The division of the book of Revelation is given to us right in the book of Revelation. Revelation 1:19 provides the division of the book. Jesus tells John, write the things which thou hast seen (which would be the vision of Christ), in Chapter 1 Verses 9 through 20.
Secondly, write the things which are, that is, presently in John's day. That would be Chapters 2 and 3, the messages to the seven churches.
And write the things which shall be hereafter;
The term hereafter is a Greek phrase that means after these things. Revelation 4:1 begins with after these things. After what things? After the things of the church which are existing in John's day. That would be Chapters 4 through 22, which actually present to us the Tribulation Period that breaks out upon the earth.
There's a threefold division in the book of Revelation. If someone has a method or system of interpretation of the book of Revelation, it must fit into the structure that Revelation itself sets out.
VIII. SECTION OUTLINE OF REVELATION:
REVELATION 1:1-8: Prologue
REVELATION 1:9-20 PART ONE: The Things which Thou Hast Seen
REVELATION CHAPTERS 2-3 PART TWO: The Things which Are
REVELATION 4:1-22:5 PART THREE: The Things which Shall Be Hereafter
REVELATION 22:6-21: John signs off with the promises for all those that hear and keep the words within this book.
I do believe that Scripture does reveal that the Bride will see "that man of sin" before the Lord meets us in the air and calls up up with a shout...
1 Thessalonians 4:16
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"
1 Thessalonians 4:17
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
2 Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
Revelation 4:1
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."
Hello Ashley. In my understanding, there are two aspects for those who belong to Jesus at their death: the mortal body goes into the ground & the immortal spirit returns to God ( Ecclesiastes 12:7). Some believe that both the spirit/soul & body remain together in the ground.
In Daniel 12:1,2, we read about the resurrection of the body in that final day, but there is no mention of the fate of the spirit of the deceased. Then in the account that Jesus gave of the wealthy man & poor Lazarus ( Luke 16:19-31), we note that Jesus spoke of three men: one in torment in hell's flames, one in relative peace & comfort in paradise, & with Abraham at his side. If any of these men just remained in the grave, Jesus would not have spoken of life beyond the grave soon after their deaths & such a life where either torment or peace can be experienced.
Even the Apostle Paul expressed his desire to leave this Earth ( Philippians 1:21-24) & to be with Christ, though he was required to continue to be used of God in the Gospel for a little longer. Paul didn't expect to lie in the grave, but his hope was that death would actually be welcome, for it meant that he would be with his Lord & Savior. And in passages such as Revelation 4:4; Revelation 5:5-10; Revelation 19:4; etc. we read about the Elders around God's Throne in Heaven. So I believe that at death our spirits return to God to join the host of Heaven worshiping the Lord of Glory. And when Jesus returns in the clouds to receive His beloved, those who have died in Christ will have their bodies re-formed to join their spirits, & those believers alive at that time will arise physically to be with the Lord forever. All this points to Jesus snatching away His people off the Earth before the awful Judgements of God come upon the unbelieving world. And then we all reign with Christ on the Earth in the Millennium period.
... the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Revelation 19:10 -> 11 And I saw heaven opened,...
Revelation 4:1
1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a Trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, ...
Revelation 11:15 to 18KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders(will be they the authors of the OT???), which sat before GOD on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped GOD,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord GOD Almighty -JESUS- , which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the NATIONS were (will be) angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged( Daniel 7:26-27), and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest DESTROY them which destroy the earth.
In my last post; I talked about Peter. He was revealed who Christ was which could only have come from the Father ( Matt. 16:17).
The HOLINESS of God is talked about frequently; perhaps easiest remembered in Revelation 4:8-11 (also found in Isaiah 6:3).
When the Bible describes judgment; and hell viewed on earth such as in Isaiah 66 there is no appreciation of the wicked for His Holiness or any other attributes. Our life as believers is hidden in Christ ( Colossians 3:3) and the verse also talks about how we must be "crucified with Christ". Those who believe have truly "passed from death to life" ( John 5:24 with further insights in 1 John as well). So that is the difference; we have either the eternal state of our spiritual condition to be in our fallen sin which is totally blind to His glory and only focused on self; or we are new creations which are now able to glorify God in heaven (and we start now by being seated in heavenly places ( Eph. 2:6). Therefore we begin now; to rule and reign with Him in a sense-it is a done deal as Romans 8:30; and Ephesians 1:13 states.
Isaiah 53:11 states that He will see the travail of His soul and be satisfied; quoting a verse from an entire CHAPTER on Christ which is the famous chapter Jews like to ignore because of clear Messianic descriptions matching that of Christ. His satisfaction therefore will be in ruling and reigning WITH us; with the sons of glory (sort of combining Hebrews 2:10 with the concept of Romans 8:17.) He did it to please the Father first and foremost; but also of course has been given all authority on heaven and earth. ( Matt. 28:18). It is strange to conceive ourselves in a similar way; but nonetheless being part of the firstfruits we also suffer for a time then are glorified and rewarded ( 1 Peter 5:10).
Obviously; as we look to the concept of varying amounts of rewards for either the wicked (punishment) we have the same idea in regard to the saved. ( 1 Cor. 3:15). more in part3
It's always tough for me to keep up because all my replies and posts are off my cellphone.
I was looking at how the scripture would look using the Greek as you said. "Oudeis , no one"
Here it goes from verses 2-4.
And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
And no one in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
And I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
You see it doesn't change nothing using the Greek word
"Oudeis" translated no one.
And I agree John was in the spirit, but John saw, and was shown visions all throughout Revelation.
And he sought the redeemer which had to be a man in particular locations and one was Heaven.
This took place around the throne!
Revelation 4:1-2. "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
And immediately I was in the spirit; and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
John describes what he saw and what he heard in a particular place.
I believe that we shall also reign on earth and that shouldn't void our access to Heaven.
Jesus is able to freely go to and from and I believe we will also because in this regard we shall be like him. 1 John 3:2.
Revelation 10:1-4 is the instruction concerning the prophecy of the thunders. And we have the description of the angel in Verses 1 through 3. Daniel 10:21 and Ezekiel 1:28 can be referenced.
Many of these characteristics and descriptions are descriptions of Christ from Chapter 1.
Many have thought, especially Jehovah's Witnesses, because it says a mighty angel, that Jesus is not God, and that He's just an angel.
But there's some differences here taken with this small scroll. What is this small scroll? It is the property deed to the earth.
In the first line it says, and I saw another mighty angel. The word another, and there's two different words in the Greek text for another, another of the same kind, or another of a different kind.
This is another of the same kind, making reference to Revelation 8:3, another mighty angel.
There are only two angels in the bible that are called mighty angels. Back in the book of Daniel Chapters 7 through 12, we have Gabriel, and we have Michael.
Michael is the archangel. He's the head angel and he usually has to do with the business of the nation Israel. And he's constantly at war with Satan concerning the things of Israel.
And Gabriel is a messenger. We especially see him at the announcement of the birth of Christ.
So this has to be one or the other, either Michael, or Gabriel, that has come down from heaven, clothed in a cloud and a rainbow about his head. And all of this tells us that he comes in the authority of Christ. He had a rainbow upon his head, his face as the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire, and he had this small book.
As for the thunders, I believe it is making reference to Gods voice coming down from heaven. Revelation 4:5 and Psalm 18:13 causes me to believe that these thunders are the voice of God.
i am never sure when I can quote people; I did once here and haven't been flagged as far as I know. Anyway; there are answers related to Revelation with the foundations and such that would indicate the 12 Patriarchs (for 12 tribes of Israel) as well as the 12 Apostles (sans Judas Iscariot) with the last either being Matthias or Paul. There are some things you can search online on the subject.
It would seem that those who are kings and priests in Rev. 5:9-10 are those of the church and also those who are rewarded and receive crowns and are raptured. This is not; in my opinion all those confessing Christ at this time as some aren't truly saved and others may be left behind. That is controversial but even if they are raptured or martyred; the Tribulation saints will be overcomers and saved but some according to 1 Cor. 3:15 get in by the "skin of their teeth" and suffer loss. There are also specific crowns for various rewards; such as for martyrs; those patiently waiting for His coming; pastor/elder; etc.
The exhortation of Revelation 3:11 is something I mention frequently. We can "lose a reward to another". The opposite may hold true as well; should we be teachable and desire to grow in the Lord discipled by more mature believers we may be able to gain heavenly rewards. We also gain treasures in heaven through investing our time; talents and monies to those truly serving the Lord.
We learn a lot about the 24 elders Revelation 5:9-10.
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast REDEEMED US TO GOD BY THY BLOOD out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
And hast made us unto our God KINGS AND PRIESTS: and we shall REIGN ON THE EARTH.
1) We know they were redeemed.
2) They were made Kings and priests.
3) They shall reign on earth.
I believe this represents the Church.
Here's why.
They were redeemed out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. Ephesians 1:7.
They were made kings and Priests.
1st Peter 1:9.
These kings and Priests shall reign on earth.
Revelation 1:5-6.
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Revelation Chapter 1 tells us that the seven Spirits was the sevenfold Spirit of God. Revelation 4:5, along with Revelation 5:6 tells us that the sevenfold Spirit of God represent His eyes, the all- knowing and the all-seeing God.
Also, in Zechariah 4:10, it tells us that the seven Spirits are the seven eyes of God.
He that has the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars, from Verses 4 and 16 of Chapter 1.
Revelation 4:1 is the verse that's used by those who believe that the believers will be raptured prior to the Tribulation Period, because number 1, the door had been opened, and number two, a trumpet was talking to him (John).
It's the same as Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:13, I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that you sorrow not, as others which have no hope.
He had just said in this chapter that the trump of God would sound. It would be a great shout, and the trump of God would sound. And so here is the trumpet talking to John saying come up here.
And those who hold the Pre-Trib. position see that as equivalent to the rapture of the church that is happening.
And from here on, John will see everything from heaven, and the church will no longer be on the earth, but the multitudes will be in heaven.
And many believe that's an indication, among other scriptures, especially 1 Thessalonians Chapter 5 where it gives us the Tribulation Period, and he says this is for the wrath of God, and we (believers) have not been chosen for the wrath of God.
Here are a few verses that might be of help to you . Isaiah chapter 11 verse 2 . Zechariah chapter 12 verse 10 and John chapter 14 verse 17 , chapter 15 verse 26 and chapter 16 verse 13 .
John 11:26 says... And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
A true believer is "crucified with Christ" and it is not I who live ( Gal. 2:20). Our experience will differ somewhat in timing from those already asleep ( 1 Thess. 4:16). As Hebrews 9:27 states we are all to "die once and face the judgment". Also it states being "absent from the body is present with the Lord." ( 2 Cor. 5:8). This necessitates the "Bema Seat" judgment to occur at death; or in the case of those still alive and raptured up; at that time. So in a sense; it will be in completing the death process of the sanctification which ultimately brings us eternal life.
I have often reminded people that martyrdom should it come is the end of a life of sanctification. In some ways that would be much like the Rapture in that there is a sudden end to our time on earth. It is possible someone could be martyred after a rather poor testimony and lukewarmness in this life; but more often scripturally at least it seems the persecutions and sufferings prepare a person for that end and death is simply a final display of Christ's holiness in the life of a saint. These truths are what makes all the claimed dreams about the rapture seem suspect. For one thing the Resurrection of the just is rarely even mentioned even though scripture states it to be the first thing immediately followed it seems by the Rapture of those still alive at the time. Some debate if Revelation 4:1 is indeed a foreshadowing of the Rapture; I would say it is and certainly the vision of Christ in the first chapter and his state of being as though dead will be our own condition when first beholding His glory. There is much ado about deceased relatives and other glories of a heavenly place and whatever is stated scripturally about that is true but of course the majesty of God overshadows that. Whatever the trip up is; the Bema Seat takes front & center
Revelation 1:19 ''write down the things which thou hast seen(past Rev 1:1-18), the things which are (past/present Chapters 2,3 letters to the churches in Johns time and for us today to know) and the things that shall be hereafter' (Future Rev 4:1 - Rev 19:11-21;Chapter 20,21,22)
Rev 4:1 (start of tribulation) - Rev 11:3;11:7/ Rev 13:5; Rev 13:7 (middle) - Rev 19:11-21 (end of Trib)
Matthew 24:3-14 tells us signs of the end before Tribulation.
End: From a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid) -- + continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost. a. termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be, (in the Greek writings always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time
Matthew 24:15-16 is speaking to those in judea near the end of Tribulation. Mark 13:14
Matthew 24:15 When ye (who read this during trib) therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"
Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:" (THOSE IN JUDAEA DURING TRIBULATION)
Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains (mountains of Moab, Southern Jordan)
Well, now will be established the 3rd heaven in this WORLD, i.e. the 3rd celestial environment where John Apostle was caught up as a guest- Revelation 4:1- and Paul Apostle was caught up in vision, and through revelations of the Lord he heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 2 Corinthians 12:2-3
Again Luke 20:35-36: They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain(to reach) that WORLD(i.e. the 3rd HEAVEN to be established here in the Earth- Matthew 5:5 combined with Revelation 5:v.10 among others references), and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are EQUAL unto the angels; and are the children of GOD(John1:v.12), being the children of the resurrection. And 1Cor. 15:22 reveals: For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Therefore, in this new millennium, there will be another NATURE, i.e. the NATURE of all things will be changed here in this Earth which was CURSED by GOD because of man, so instead of the CURSE, the blessing. This will be LITERALLY fulfilled from now on. Remember: The Word is GOD, the Word is self-executing according was preestablished and revealed by the Word of GOD.
Philippians 3:20-21 - 20 Our conversation is in heaven(current 2nd heaven, understand?); FROM WHENCE also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body( 1 Corinthians 15:51-55.Take a look.)-, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (the nature will be changed)
1 Cor.15:24-27
24 The END cometh when He shall have delivered up the Kingdom to GOD, even the Father; when He shall have PUT DOWN ALL RULE and ALL AUTHORITY and power( Revelation 11:15-18. Take a look)
25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Get ready
Yeah, Righteousness and Judgment are the foundation of GOD's Throne, both Righteousness and Judgment are implicit in the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD, self-executing.
Revelation 4:4 - And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. "GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son,whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also GOD made the worlds- Hebrews 1:1-2;
And who are the 24 elders clothed in white raiment and sat on 24 thrones? They are the 24 messengers of GOD's Word. GOD the Father, beginning by Moses, has already crowned them. And they are already enthroned around GOD's Throne clothed in white raiment and they have on their heads CROWNS of gold.
GOD did choose and elected 24 men unto which He would reveal His Word to write the books of the Old Testament - the first Covenant - the first heavenly place in Christ. (Now we are in the 2nd heavenly place in Christ, the 2nd Covenant, the Covenant of the New Testament - Ephesians 1:3. Take a look)
That said, here goes the 24 elders showed in Revelation 4:v.4
1 - Moses
2 - Joshua
3 - Samuel
4 - Ezra
5 - Nehemiah
6 - Job
7 - David
8 - Solomon
9 - Isaiah
10 - Jeremiah
11 - Ezekiel
12 - Daniel
13 - Hosea
14 - Joel
15 - Amos
16 - Obadiah
17 - Jonah
18 - Micah
19 - Nahum
20 - Habakkuk
21 - Zephaniah
22 - Haggai
23 - Zechariah
24 - Malachi
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of GOD sent forth into all the earth. Praised be our GOD. Amen.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
You said that you "don't know if the angels can see the Father, or if for all eternity they saw the Godhead in the Son even before He was incarnated".
Remember that John the Baptist was an angel( Isaiah 40:1 to 14 reveal who is his person combined with Malachi 3:1), angels are born by the Power of the Word of GOD, by prophecy, even our Lord JESUS affirmed this( Matthew 11:9-10), and John the Baptist, the angel of the Lord, knew JESUS before His birth, as even he testified: John the Apostle wrote about the testimony of John the Baptist, saying: John 1:18 - 18 No man hath seen GOD at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.
By the way, we must know with certainty through the Word of GOD that the TRUE BELIEVERS will be angels of GOD from now on, by the transformation and changing of the nature of them all, the Word of GOD will do it in the true believers, do you understand? Because they was born from GOD-from the Word-the Word is GOD- Philippians 3:20-21 combined with 1 Corinthians 15:51-55 and Romans 8:18-25, Believest thou this?)
Our Lord JESUS said: Luke 20:35-36-
35 - They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world (next world-the Kingdom of GOD- Revelation 11:15-18) and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are EQUAL UNTO THE ANGELS; and are the children of GOD, being the children of the resurrection.
Matthew 25:29 - For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Matthew 25:4-6
4 - The wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and SLEPT. (Similar Genesis 2:21-25)
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; GO YE OUT(yes, GO OUT)TO MEET HIM.
Come up hither- Revelation 4:1
Hallelujah, praise our GOD
The beauty of the cross is perhaps no better described than in Isaiah 52:14. His appearance or "visage" was so marred from the beatings and other injuries before the crucifixion that Jesus was hardly recognizable as a man. But by His stripes; we are healed ( Isaiah 53:5 just a few verses later). He has brought us beauty from ashes ( Isaiah 61:3) which in context means Israel will have restitution after suffering judgment. But God in the flesh resulted not in admiration but in a man of sorrows acquainted with grief ( Isaiah 53:3).
God's awe inspiring attributes are seen in the visions of the Lord as seen by Isaiah 6; Ezekiel 1:22 and associated verses in Revelation 15:2; etal; and Daniel 10:6; etal). The true beauty of God; of course ties in with His selflessness; agape love and other characteristics that are above storge; Philleo and eros type of human love. Satan himself was a most beautiful creation as Lucifer ( Ezekiel 28:12) UNTIL he fell. Now the beauty is vanity as it is with any fallen creature who pride has allowed to contaminate. God Himself deserves worship and is not being arrogant in stating this desire but there are no verses I am aware of that state God is PROUD of being the God of all creation; He is supreme and in that sense better than anyone else; but He calls His followers by name and "friends" ( John 15:15). This makes Him the perfect Father.
God created all things for His good pleasure including man ( Revelation 4:11). No doubt Adam and Eve in a sinless state were beautiful; and perhaps still externally appeared that way after the fall. All things were fearfully and wonderfully made ( Psalm 139:14) but man has sought out many inventions (see Ecclesiastes 7:29). 1 Chronicles 16:27 talks of the majesty of God which no doubt incorporates beauty as seen in the creation. This makes man without excuse; as Romans 1 and Psalm 19 make clear.
God's beauty is more than skin deep and indescribable as all other traits.
REVELATION IN 3 PARTS Past-Present-Future
Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast SEEN, and the things WHICH ARE, and the things which shall be HEREAFTER;
Things which thou hast SEEN ( Rev 1:1-18) things which ARE ( Revelation 2,3) things which shall be HEREAFTER ( Revelation 4:1)
John wrote down what he had seen, in the order in which he saw them.
REV 2,3 'WHICH ARE' CHURCHES IN JOHNS TIME/CHURCHES TODAY
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
Rapture 'seizing and carrying off'
There have been raptures already just by the definition above, more yet to come.
Enoch, Elijah, Captives free in the OT are 'raptures'
RAPTURES DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION.
(Disclaimer: John wrote it) Those who repent during tribulation before the 7th seal, later 144,000 and Two witnesses. Salvation will be available to those who ask for God's grace before the 7th seal though they must endure the first 6 seals.
REV 4:1 RAPTURE/TRIB (Dead in Christ rise first, they which are alive) 6 SEALS ( REV 7:14 Great multitude..'out of' meaning within. Two Witnesses, 144,000 man child)
TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION SEEK HIM WHILE HE MAY BE FOUND!
Mark 13:32 -But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
RAPTURE/START OF TRIBULATION ( Rev 4:2/19:11-21) 2ND COMING OF CHRIST
Chapter 7 starts 'after these' so chapters 4,5,6 have happened.
LITTLE HORN UPROOTS 3 NATIONS, AND OTHER 6 FALL IN LINE. AFTER 3.5 YEARS OF WAR.
Zechariah 14:16-23 - After Tribulation 'Those that left' 'year to year' for 1000 years. Will live, age, multiply and die. In Heaven until 1000 years are up. These nations satan will be let loose to deceive the nations one last time.
NOT THOSE RAPTURED SAINTS WITH CHRIST 2ND Coming, THEY WILL BE ETERNAL
.
Revelation 1:1 THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST ........ and he (the Spirit of Christ) SENT and SIGNIFIED IT (the REVELATION of himself) to his servant John:
Most think Revelation is a prophecy of anti-christ; even though, the WORD says it's the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST.
The ENTIRE word of God is the voice and words of JESUS CHRIST, different men through the ages have taken pen in hand and recorded the WORDS of Christ, yet, they are Christ's words, not the words of the one who penned them.
These are Christ's words, REVEALING himself to the carnal mind of man:
Revelation 4:7 And the FIRST BEAST was like a lion, and the SECOND BEAST was like a calf, and the THIRD BEAST had a face as a man, and the FORTH BEAST was like a flying eagle.
Are these FOUR BEAST four different things, or, are they four descriptions REVEALING JESUS CHRIST?
Scripture says, NO VERSE is the private interpretation of the verse itself, but has to be understood by applying other verses of scripture to understand.
We have to find the interpretation of Revelation 4:7 in other scriptures to understand.
Numbers 24:7 He (the Spirit) shall pour the water out of his (Christ's) buckets, and his (Christ's) SEED shall be as many waters (peoples, tongues, and nations) and his (the Spirit's) king (Christ) shall be higher than Agag, and his (Christ's) kingdom shall be exalted.
Numbers 24:8 God brought him (Christ) out of Egypt; he (Christ) hath as it were the strength of a unicorn (ox): he (Christ) shall eat up the nations his (Christ's) enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows (words).
Numbers 24:9 He (Christ) crouched, he lay down LIKE A LION, and as a GREAT LION: who shall stir him (Christ, a lion) up? Blessed is he that blesseth thee (Christ, the Spirit of prophecy), and cursed is he that curseth thee (Christ, the spirit of prophecy).
LOOK to the scriptures; all FOUR BEAST, the lion, the calf, the man, the eagle, are CHRIST.
God Bless You!
VII. THE DIVISION OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION:
This is probably one of the most important facts that we need to know, just in understanding Revelation, and the various teachings that we hear about the book of Revelation, which I'll get to here in a moment.
The division of the book of Revelation is given to us right in the book of Revelation. Revelation 1:19 provides the division of the book. Jesus tells John, write the things which thou hast seen (which would be the vision of Christ), in Chapter 1 Verses 9 through 20.
Secondly, write the things which are, that is, presently in John's day. That would be Chapters 2 and 3, the messages to the seven churches.
And write the things which shall be hereafter;
The term hereafter is a Greek phrase that means after these things. Revelation 4:1 begins with after these things. After what things? After the things of the church which are existing in John's day. That would be Chapters 4 through 22, which actually present to us the Tribulation Period that breaks out upon the earth.
There's a threefold division in the book of Revelation. If someone has a method or system of interpretation of the book of Revelation, it must fit into the structure that Revelation itself sets out.
VIII. SECTION OUTLINE OF REVELATION:
REVELATION 1:1-8: Prologue
REVELATION 1:9-20 PART ONE: The Things which Thou Hast Seen
REVELATION CHAPTERS 2-3 PART TWO: The Things which Are
REVELATION 4:1-22:5 PART THREE: The Things which Shall Be Hereafter
REVELATION 22:6-21: John signs off with the promises for all those that hear and keep the words within this book.
1 Thessalonians 4:16
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"
1 Thessalonians 4:17
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
2 Thessalonians 2:3
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
Revelation 4:1
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."
In Daniel 12:1,2, we read about the resurrection of the body in that final day, but there is no mention of the fate of the spirit of the deceased. Then in the account that Jesus gave of the wealthy man & poor Lazarus ( Luke 16:19-31), we note that Jesus spoke of three men: one in torment in hell's flames, one in relative peace & comfort in paradise, & with Abraham at his side. If any of these men just remained in the grave, Jesus would not have spoken of life beyond the grave soon after their deaths & such a life where either torment or peace can be experienced.
Even the Apostle Paul expressed his desire to leave this Earth ( Philippians 1:21-24) & to be with Christ, though he was required to continue to be used of God in the Gospel for a little longer. Paul didn't expect to lie in the grave, but his hope was that death would actually be welcome, for it meant that he would be with his Lord & Savior. And in passages such as Revelation 4:4; Revelation 5:5-10; Revelation 19:4; etc. we read about the Elders around God's Throne in Heaven. So I believe that at death our spirits return to God to join the host of Heaven worshiping the Lord of Glory. And when Jesus returns in the clouds to receive His beloved, those who have died in Christ will have their bodies re-formed to join their spirits, & those believers alive at that time will arise physically to be with the Lord forever. All this points to Jesus snatching away His people off the Earth before the awful Judgements of God come upon the unbelieving world. And then we all reign with Christ on the Earth in the Millennium period.
Revelation 4:1
1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a Trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, ...
Revelation 11:15 to 18KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders(will be they the authors of the OT???), which sat before GOD on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped GOD,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord GOD Almighty -JESUS- , which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the NATIONS were (will be) angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged( Daniel 7:26-27), and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest DESTROY them which destroy the earth.
In my last post; I talked about Peter. He was revealed who Christ was which could only have come from the Father ( Matt. 16:17).
The HOLINESS of God is talked about frequently; perhaps easiest remembered in Revelation 4:8-11 (also found in Isaiah 6:3).
When the Bible describes judgment; and hell viewed on earth such as in Isaiah 66 there is no appreciation of the wicked for His Holiness or any other attributes. Our life as believers is hidden in Christ ( Colossians 3:3) and the verse also talks about how we must be "crucified with Christ". Those who believe have truly "passed from death to life" ( John 5:24 with further insights in 1 John as well). So that is the difference; we have either the eternal state of our spiritual condition to be in our fallen sin which is totally blind to His glory and only focused on self; or we are new creations which are now able to glorify God in heaven (and we start now by being seated in heavenly places ( Eph. 2:6). Therefore we begin now; to rule and reign with Him in a sense-it is a done deal as Romans 8:30; and Ephesians 1:13 states.
Isaiah 53:11 states that He will see the travail of His soul and be satisfied; quoting a verse from an entire CHAPTER on Christ which is the famous chapter Jews like to ignore because of clear Messianic descriptions matching that of Christ. His satisfaction therefore will be in ruling and reigning WITH us; with the sons of glory (sort of combining Hebrews 2:10 with the concept of Romans 8:17.) He did it to please the Father first and foremost; but also of course has been given all authority on heaven and earth. ( Matt. 28:18). It is strange to conceive ourselves in a similar way; but nonetheless being part of the firstfruits we also suffer for a time then are glorified and rewarded ( 1 Peter 5:10).
Obviously; as we look to the concept of varying amounts of rewards for either the wicked (punishment) we have the same idea in regard to the saved. ( 1 Cor. 3:15). more in part3
1 Corinthians 15:33,34
Acts 15:28,29; Exodus 26:1
POINT: Revelation 22:6-9;
Revelation 4:11
Travels is over for the week!
It's always tough for me to keep up because all my replies and posts are off my cellphone.
I was looking at how the scripture would look using the Greek as you said. "Oudeis , no one"
Here it goes from verses 2-4.
And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
And no one in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
And I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
You see it doesn't change nothing using the Greek word
"Oudeis" translated no one.
And I agree John was in the spirit, but John saw, and was shown visions all throughout Revelation.
And he sought the redeemer which had to be a man in particular locations and one was Heaven.
This took place around the throne!
Revelation 4:1-2. "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
And immediately I was in the spirit; and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
John describes what he saw and what he heard in a particular place.
I believe that we shall also reign on earth and that shouldn't void our access to Heaven.
Jesus is able to freely go to and from and I believe we will also because in this regard we shall be like him. 1 John 3:2.
Also see Romans 8:16-21.
We're joint heirs with Christ!!
God bless.
John was told to Write the things which thou hast seen, (The pre-incarnate Christ.)
and the things which are, (Church things. Then and now)
and the things which shall be hereafter; (The rest of the book)
By the time we get to Revelation 4:1 There's no more mention of the Church. So the overcoming has been done before the Tribulation.
And the overcoming is done by the Holyspirit. There is nothing you and I can do to present ourselves righteous before God. It's him that keeps us.
Concerning Revelation 2:10
It has already past. 10 days refers to 10 periods under 10 Roman Imperors.
The "ten days" in Revelation 2:10 refers to ten persecutions that began with Nero and ended with Diocletian at the end of the third century.
The early Church was persecuted and under tribulation. NOT THE GREAT TRIBULATION.
Jimbob I see you Brother Chris and others have covered much of this topic. I'm not sure what you guys covered,
I haven't had the chance to read much of it.
I believe we will have to agree to disagree on this topic.
However I would love to discuss soteriology with you.
I don't believe the eschatology views have anything to do with whether one is saved or not.
May I ask How do you feel about that?
Are we saved by grace?
Works "of the Law"?
Both? ect..
Many of these characteristics and descriptions are descriptions of Christ from Chapter 1.
Many have thought, especially Jehovah's Witnesses, because it says a mighty angel, that Jesus is not God, and that He's just an angel.
But there's some differences here taken with this small scroll. What is this small scroll? It is the property deed to the earth.
In the first line it says, and I saw another mighty angel. The word another, and there's two different words in the Greek text for another, another of the same kind, or another of a different kind.
This is another of the same kind, making reference to Revelation 8:3, another mighty angel.
There are only two angels in the bible that are called mighty angels. Back in the book of Daniel Chapters 7 through 12, we have Gabriel, and we have Michael.
Michael is the archangel. He's the head angel and he usually has to do with the business of the nation Israel. And he's constantly at war with Satan concerning the things of Israel.
And Gabriel is a messenger. We especially see him at the announcement of the birth of Christ.
So this has to be one or the other, either Michael, or Gabriel, that has come down from heaven, clothed in a cloud and a rainbow about his head. And all of this tells us that he comes in the authority of Christ. He had a rainbow upon his head, his face as the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire, and he had this small book.
As for the thunders, I believe it is making reference to Gods voice coming down from heaven. Revelation 4:5 and Psalm 18:13 causes me to believe that these thunders are the voice of God.
Hope this helps!
It would seem that those who are kings and priests in Rev. 5:9-10 are those of the church and also those who are rewarded and receive crowns and are raptured. This is not; in my opinion all those confessing Christ at this time as some aren't truly saved and others may be left behind. That is controversial but even if they are raptured or martyred; the Tribulation saints will be overcomers and saved but some according to 1 Cor. 3:15 get in by the "skin of their teeth" and suffer loss. There are also specific crowns for various rewards; such as for martyrs; those patiently waiting for His coming; pastor/elder; etc.
The exhortation of Revelation 3:11 is something I mention frequently. We can "lose a reward to another". The opposite may hold true as well; should we be teachable and desire to grow in the Lord discipled by more mature believers we may be able to gain heavenly rewards. We also gain treasures in heaven through investing our time; talents and monies to those truly serving the Lord.
Anyway; have a blessed Sunday of worship..
Agape. Rich P
We learn a lot about the 24 elders Revelation 5:9-10.
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast REDEEMED US TO GOD BY THY BLOOD out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
And hast made us unto our God KINGS AND PRIESTS: and we shall REIGN ON THE EARTH.
1) We know they were redeemed.
2) They were made Kings and priests.
3) They shall reign on earth.
I believe this represents the Church.
Here's why.
They were redeemed out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. Ephesians 1:7.
They were made kings and Priests.
1st Peter 1:9.
These kings and Priests shall reign on earth.
Revelation 1:5-6.
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
I hope this helps.
God bless.
Hopefully this is helpful
Hebrews 1:13,14,
Hopefully these are helpful
Revelation Chapter 1 tells us that the seven Spirits was the sevenfold Spirit of God. Revelation 4:5, along with Revelation 5:6 tells us that the sevenfold Spirit of God represent His eyes, the all- knowing and the all-seeing God.
Also, in Zechariah 4:10, it tells us that the seven Spirits are the seven eyes of God.
He that has the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars, from Verses 4 and 16 of Chapter 1.
Revelation 4:1 is the verse that's used by those who believe that the believers will be raptured prior to the Tribulation Period, because number 1, the door had been opened, and number two, a trumpet was talking to him (John).
It's the same as Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:13, I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that you sorrow not, as others which have no hope.
He had just said in this chapter that the trump of God would sound. It would be a great shout, and the trump of God would sound. And so here is the trumpet talking to John saying come up here.
And those who hold the Pre-Trib. position see that as equivalent to the rapture of the church that is happening.
And from here on, John will see everything from heaven, and the church will no longer be on the earth, but the multitudes will be in heaven.
And many believe that's an indication, among other scriptures, especially 1 Thessalonians Chapter 5 where it gives us the Tribulation Period, and he says this is for the wrath of God, and we (believers) have not been chosen for the wrath of God.