All glory goes to God; although I am glad if it is helpful. I am trying to promote reading of scriptures so always trying to find something new there. Gigi clearly has greater depth and more precise details related to historical context; a far better writer than I. My style is very swift with little if any preparation; although I have done a lot of thinking about things in my own life which I am able to rapidly assimilate.
My gifting is in discernment and sadly I have still much softening needed in my heart and soul; partially due no doubt to the divorce I had to go through the better part of 10 years ago. My views against remarriage when a spouse is alive isn't something I'm going to push on this site but I know the Lord has given me another specific calling to warn others about the subject. It is risky mentioning this as there are some who I love in Christ who have been offended but I must speak what I believe He has given me to say.
I suppose I could use prayer that I can somehow be bolder sharing on my job; although often I'm too busy working fast paced in my food service work. If the Lord tarries once my elderly parents (in their 90s) have passed then I probably will revert back to spending more of my time witnessing; so that is part of the reason I belt out so much stuff now; along with whatever writing talent the Lord has given me.
I can only hope that as Daniel states some will shine as the stars in the sky (or firmament- Daniel 12:3) as a result of some message whether it is myself or someone else at this site or elsewhere. The true experience of being filled with the Spirit I contend is rare and you have to search like it for gold and eventually you will begin to be able to know when it is present.
You will see it in others mainly; and is in a minority of professing believers. Again I appeal to the scriptures on running for the prize ( Philippians 3:3) and even Paul said it can be forfeited ( 1 Cor. 9:27; see also Revelation 3:11).
The Laodicean church is what many consider to typify the last stages or phase of church history. It is clear from that passage that only a few there are worthy; as we see in Revelation 3:4 with the church of Sardis as well. The general state is one of a pitiful state of spiritual poverty which the outer adornment; much like the Pharisees cleaning the outer parts of their vessels which appear to be showing opulence. Matthew 25:9 reminds me of those who need to pay the price for receiving the refreshing of the Holy Spirit as it will be with the fiery trial and mass martyrdom of the Tribulation. I see this as an example of those who have patiently waited for the Lord and now receive their reward because of enduring much as Lot did until the Lord rescued him from the disaster to come (see 2 Tim. 4:8). Those who are in a Laodicean church aren't putting themselves or anyone else into persecution as all those who are godly in Christ Jesus suffer ( 2 Tim. 3:12). Whether they are truly saved or not ultimately will be determined by God; I tend to see the Rapture as a reward issue but if I'm wrong then rewards will be lost for those backslidden ( Rev. 3:11); and it is certain many aren't truly saved now but many will wake up on the other side of the rapture; whether left behind people who professed Christ beforehand or new converts.
As to the second part of my study on the Jews suffering Tribulation first; we can of course see that pattern in many Old Testament passages as well as the many wars in history; the most obvious recent one of worldwide significance being World War two. This current Hamas battle also started with an attack causing suffering to Jews. These verses would show the military campaigns that will occur prior to Armageddon as well when God finally defends His people ( Zech. 14:2) and then the nations are dealt with. The various judgments will be centered on Israel as well.
Thank you again, from my heart, the truth is my search not to offend. It all goes back to one verse when I read it, it stood out in my heart, Corinthians 11:4. I know I am alone here on this, but saying Jesus is part of the Triune God, who eternally exists and expresses himself as three distinct persons with one essence all three co-equal. One God in three persons-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This to me denies the Son, 1 John 2:23
What I see in the Bible is the relationship between the Father and the Son, the Son is obedient to the Father. Jesus said His Father is greater than Him, John 14:28. Jesus has said the Father is His God, John 20:17Revelation 3:12.
The Bible defines God's nature as eternal and unchanging; there is only one throne of God and through the Bible, only the Father is on the throne until the Father raised His Son from the dead and placed Him on His right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, there is nothing about the Holy Spirit.
As we see in Revelation Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple and the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof, Rev. 21:22-23 no Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, not another person.
Jesus confirmed there is only one true God, Mark 12:28-34, in Jesus's prayer to His Father said in John 17:3. All the greetings in the New Testament are from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, Galatians 1:3Ephesians 6:231 Thessalonians 1:12 Timothy 1:2Titus 1:42 John 1:3 and more but no Holy Spirit.
If the Trinity true and is so important, why is it not once taught in Scripture? God cannot change and God cannot die, so how do we understand John 3:16 if God the Father did not send his actual begotten Son to die for our sins? We see Jesus also had His own will, Luke 22:42.
God made Jesus Lord, Acts 2:36, made is thee Greek word ginomai that means to come into being, to happen, to become. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world and this Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20Revelation 13:8, foreordained the Greek word proginosko means to know beforehand to appoint or decree beforehand.
I see too many Scriptures that do not agree with the doctrine. I hope this makes sense. This is Scripture without man's knowledge or wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:22Jeremiah 10:10 10 Malachi 2:10Mark 12:32
Paul wrote these; Romans 3:30Romans 15:61 Corinthians 8:62 Corinthians 1:32 Corinthians 11:31Ephesians 1:3Ephesians 1:17Ephesians 3:14Ephesians 4:6Colossians 1:31 Timothy 2:5
Peter wrote this; 1 Peter 1:3
These are Jesus's words Himself; Matthew 27:46 Same in Mark 15:34John 14:28John 17:3John 20:17Revelation 3:12
What this says to me, there is only one true God who is the God and Father of Jesus,
These Scriptures are clear without our wisdom or knowledge do not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. I do thank you and again I hope you do not consider me a Gnostic that would be sad, they are more of a philosophical like the immortal soul came from Greek philosophy, I am believer and follower of Jesus our Lord and savior.
Thanks Giannis for sharing in this. I can agree to Romans 8:29, " that he might be the firstborn among many brethren"; that clearly 'prototokos' here refers to Christ being our 'Forerunner' leading those who are saved by His Blood, into the new Birth He has provided for us; i.e. we follow Jesus, Who is the Firstborn among us.
Yet, with Colossians 1:15, "the firstborn of every creature" (or, creation), doesn't seem to imply that believers are the object; though you (or, your Church) feels it does: "that first born of all creation means that Jesus was the first child of God among all other born(again) children (us, God's children)". It's interesting that 'creation' is used here, which doesn't seem to easily bring Christ's Church into its meaning.
That was interesting about the usage of 'arche', that it could be applied to rulers, principalities, etc. I checked your reference Revelation 3:14, and though the application of 'arche' is defined as "that by which anything begins to be, the origin, active cause", your other references ( Colossians 1:16 & Ephesians 3:10) certainly apply to 'principalities/rulers'. And other references are given in support of this: Luke 12:11, Titus 3:1, Ephesians 1:21, Colossians 2:10, & others. So thank you for giving us more to consider in this matter.
If I may respond to your good questions brother Ronald.
a. Revelation 3:14, "These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God". I think you're stating that Jesus existed in Heaven (i.e. before the rest of God's creative Work done by Him) & then came to Earth as a babe. Apologies if I've misunderstood, as this understanding is at variance with the general belief by the non-trinitarian, that Jesus made His first appearance as a human & He had no existence before that.
True, there were two 'Adams': "The first man (Adam) is of the earth, earthy: the second man (Adam) is the Lord from heaven" ( 1 Corinthians 15:47). Is Paul suggesting that this Jesus, before all creation, was also the Lord from Heaven or mistaken, that He was a sub-Lord? Then the question, 'if Jesus was created by God before other of His created Works, what was His position in Heaven - was He God's Assistant in His Works or the Lord Who shared (partook) in God's Glory' ( John 17:5) - or maybe God created another god (but how would that work for God cannot be created, or else the created one can never be a supreme God?).
And Jesus must have been immortal as all heavenly beings are & all humans are (having an immortal spirit that can never die). So, maybe some clarification on how you understand this matter. Then back to Revelation 3:14: we can also bring in Colossians 1:15-17: Jesus, as One from God, stands then as He is now, the Image of the invisible God, Who not only created all things "by Him (Himself), but for Him (Himself)". If He then is "the firstborn of every creature" (v15) & "the firstborn from the dead" (v18), this might indicate that from examination of this word, 'firstborn' (prototokos), we can understand this "beginning of God's Creation & firstborn of every creature". And also in Revelation 3:14, the "beginning" of the creation of God: 'arche', from which we get words like 'arche-type'. Onto Page 2.
"I hope the Lord waits until my kids grow up; get married; etc."
"I hope the Lord lets me stay until (so and so) becomes a Christian"
"I'll show 'em; let me be one of the 144,000; or hang out afterwards it can't be that bad at the start..."
The facetious dialogues suggested above are more are less a compilation of several arguments BELIEVERS have given in my presence in the past when this subject came up. Let us examine them in light of the scriptures...
First point; in heaven there will be no regret as far as "missing out" on anything this earth had to offer. That is; unless we have squandered the opportunity NOW to witness and do those things which forfeited rewards in light of the admonitions of Revelation 3:11. Our children will be where their angels are already "beholding the Father in heaven continually." ( Matt. 18:10).
The second argument assumes that God is somehow derelict in His duty to bring the "fullness of the Gentiles in" ( Romans 11:25) which in truth may not occur completely at the Rapture but before the Second Coming. Nonetheless; the multitudes that come to Christ that can't be counted may never have come at least as quickly without the fiery trials the Lord designed to purge out the dross during the Tribulation. ( Revelation 7:9). We should also appreciate the fact in verses such as Psalm 40 which states "many will see and fear" (verse 3). This seems to indicate with the surrounding verses we will be raptured/resurrected from the ground; SURELY the Resurrection of the saints cannot be explained away and will be common knowledge (even if they say the UFO's abducted those raptured it's harder to explain those already deceased).
The third point is that even in the seal judgments there is a direct opening of these seals by Christ Himself with a fourth of the earth dying (at least) at that time. No one can outplan or outwit God in saving provisions for that time (see James 5:3).
When John came preaching the Kingdom of God, as the forerunner of Christ, all that was available to understand the Kingdom of God was Moses and the Prophets.
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth HIS SECRETS to his servants the Prophets.
Moses and the Prophets is the REVEALING of the Kingdom of God, a kingdom here on earth.
Nowhere in Moses and the Prophets does it say the reward of the righteous is Heaven, nor nowhere does it say the reward of the wicked is HELL.
What it does say is the wicked shall be JUDGED by the righteous.
The wages of sin is DEATH.
Christ came and he and all creation was crucified for the sins of the world.
Christ died for us in the sense we did not have to suffer the wrath of God poured out on him.
But we died just as he die.
Only Christ arose and we as joint heirs with Christ, SAVED from ever dying again.
But there are two kinds of people in this world, believers and unbelievers, symbolised by the two malefactors crucified with Christ, one believed, one did not believe, one went to the presence of God, the other went to the grave to await the second resurrection.
The Believers WERE SAVED at the first resurrection: believing they were resurrected as ONE FLESH with Christ.
The unbelievers will DIE and go to the GRAVE, and await the second resurrection, and will be judged and ruled over by the BELIEVERS of God's word.
The reference in Moses and the Prophets is they will be the wood choppers and water haulers, and they will bow the knee.
Revelation 3:9 Behold, I WILL MAKE THEM of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews (circumcised in the heart) and are not, but do lie, behold, I WILL MAKE THEM come and worship before thy feet, and TO KNOW that I have love thee
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of CREATION WAITETH (in the grave) for the MANIFESTATION of the Sons of God,
Romans 8:21 For creation itself ALSO SHALL BE DELIVERED from the bongage of corruption ......
Good evening! Part of the interpretation of revelation is believing that our lives our written in heaven while we live in earth. So we live with hope. "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affections on things above, not on things of the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God."
Colossians 3:1-3
"And has raised us up together, and made us sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:26
So then, in part, this day is spoken of while the work of Christ continues in earthen vessels.
"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, am am set down with my Father in his throne." Revelation 3:21
Ah! The perpetual discussion on eternal security. Almost as exciting as discussing who the Sons of God were in Gen. 6:2, but I'll save that one for another time. Unfortunately, we live in a time when 'rightly' dividing the Word has become somehow more complicated. I believe the Bible has every answer to all the questions we need to have answered in order to walk circumspectly with the Lord. I'll make it brief, then, that the ability to lose one's salvation rests completely with that individual. God made the way, Christ made the sacrifice and the Holy Spirit provides the ability or power for us to follow Christ daily, unless we choose otherwise. Salvation from God does not negate one's ability to choose between God or something less. The Bible contains those who started well and finished poorly. So poorly they ended up in Hades. Saul, Israel's first king, was one whom God withdrew His spirit from ( 1 Sam. 16:14), Judas Iscariot whom Christ called to follow Him, willingly rejected and betrayed Christ after he witnessed and performed miracles/wonders in His name when sent out by Jesus in pairs ( Mark 6:7-13) and then, Demas, who forsook Paul for the love of the world ( 2 Tim. 4:10). But, finally, God has a word that many overlook in the Bible. It's a short 4-letter word called "blot". It's used in Exodus 32:32-33 where God tells Moses He will blot out the names of those who reject Him from His book and then in Revelation 3:5, Jesus himself declares that He will not blot out the names of those who overcome the trials and sufferings that believers face, but warns those who are not watching and keeping His commands. I know that my flesh nature would love the idea that once I get saved, I have no more worries about anything. Lack of rewards in Heaven will be no big deal because we won't feel shame or regret. You better read Luke 14:27 and Matt. 10:38, no one will wear Heaven's crown until they carry their earthly cross in His service. Thanks for your time.
One of the most discussed topics in Christendom is the idea of eternal salvation. Many noted Christian leaders in our day support the notion of eternal salvation that is not derived from scripture. God doesn't have a number of spiritual states one can be in and still serve Him. Some do try and 'straddle the fence', so to speak. Jesus plainly states in Revelation 3:15-16 that anyone considering themselves Christians and not do those things Christ commanded, have no part in His inheritance or kingdom. I note that in that same chapter of Revelation, He states in His message to the Sardis church of believers (mind you) that they who overcome, meaning obeying Him despite obstacles, sufferings or inconveniences, He will not blot their name out of the book of life. When an individual comes to Christ, that doesn't negate his or her ability to choose whether to continue in His service. Your free moral agency or freedom to choose is still there. Don't think so, consider King Saul. In 1 Samuel 10:9-11, God gives Saul a new heart and His spirit is given to him. Then in chapter 16 and verse 14, we read that God took His spirit away from Saul or departed from him. Why? DISOBEDIENCE, plain and simple. The apostle Paul had the same problem when Demas departed from him ( 2 Tim. 4:10) because of his love of this present world. Christ had a number of followers who departed from Him and followed Him no more ( John 6:66). Jesus cannot be anyone's Savior unless He's their Lord also.
Hello Bmccaugh58. The answers to your questions are actually found throughout the Bible (from Genesis to Revelation), because the Bible essentially shows us how far mankind has fallen away from his Creator (because of sin), the repercussions we face from living in such a sinful state, & what God has done to offer correction & help, or else, judgement. So, one merely has to read through the Bible (even in your daily devotions/readings) & will see how people, yes all of us, have done wrong towards God & man & what subsequently entails from that. Some will learn & be corrected & then restored - others will persist in their evil ways & face God's Judgement.
So, here are some passages to start you off, but in your reading of the Bible, God's Spirit will alert you to what you seek or even where some action needs to be taken in your own life.
These are just a very few Scriptures, reminding us that there will always be consequences for our actions, not just in our dealings with each other, but more importantly, as we stand before God. But this God of Love always gives sinful wayward man an escape route, from a life of sin to a life of holiness & love - and His Name is Jesus.
This Psalm is a prophecy of what the works of his cross will accomplish.
Psalms 75:1 Unto thee do we give thanks, for THY NAME is near (as) thy WONDROUS WORKS declare.
We were married to Christ, becoming one flesh, and bearing HIS NAME, at his resurrection.
Psalms 57:2 When I (Christ) RECEIVE the congregation ( Psalms 2:8) I (Christ) will judge uprightly.
Psalms 57:3 The earth and the inhabitants thereof are dissolved (they will died on the cross). I (Christ) will bear the PILLARS ( Revelation 3:12 the NEW CREATION) of it.
Psalms 57:4 I (Christ) said unto the fools (all of us, because we have not knowledge of the works of God); Deal not foolishly: and unto the wicked (all of us), Lift not up the horn (a symbol of power).
Psalms 57:5 Lift not up your horn on high, speak not with a stiff neck.
Psalms 57:6 For PROMOTION (going form a foolish, stiff necked people: to the sons of God) cometh neither from the east, nor the west, nor the south,
Psalms 57:7 But (from) God (who) is the judge, he putteth down one (all of us, the foolish and stiff necked), and setteth up another (the sons of GOD).
God Bless You all, prayer request for healing. And prayers for each other that we keep on keeping on. I'll meet you all in the air.
1 Thessalonians 5:2
"For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."
1 Thessalonians 4:16
"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"
1 Thessalonians 4:17
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (7 years in Heaven and in Revelation 19:11-21 Christ returns with His Saints and the Angels)
Revelation 3:10
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
Matthew 5:12
"Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in Heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
John 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Grace and Salvation and the Holy Spirit will remain. The Body of Christ is he who hinders, God said the Holy Spirit will abide with thee forever. Zech 14:16-21 speaks of those that are left, without the mark or and who did not worship the image will serve year to year.
Isaiah 19:23-25
23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.
Concluding thoughts on national sovereignty vs one world order
In the end; he who lives by the sword dies by the sword. ( Matt. 26:52; also see Revelation 13:10). As Christians we are to remain as salt and light to resist the decay that the current world system under Satanic influence is headed toward. Similarly; we should not cede to others things that are inalienable rights that our forefathers fought so hard for and is enacted in our Constitution and other important legal documents as to how a Republic is to be run. We shouldn't; however make that our priority; as His Kingdom is not of this world ( John 18:36). We see ways; for instance with certain bitcoin currencies how we can be in an internationally accepted means of exchange (for now) which is an alternative to the electronic cash and other efforts governments and private banks are attempting to control the narrative and our lives. It is hard to say if we do have a sort of one world government how far it will progress before the Tribulation; peace is taken from the earth at the 2nd Seal; that leaves us to wonder if it is just a type of peace that is in effect since just the first seal or if it has lasted a while.
One world religion again is something that is developing; we are responsible to hold onto the Philadelphian type church and patiently endure as Revelation 3:10 states until the Lord comes back to receive our reward even with little strength. We must avoid any false revival and not expect mass conversions at a time when many are said to fall away if we are indeed in the last days ( 1 Timothy 4:1 and also see Matthew 24:10). If we live in a world system where we have to pay taxes then of course we need wisdom. The plans are clear from the "powers that be" (without having to name the source) that in a few short years we are supposed to be content losing property and any private ownership. So be it; if the Gospel is preached we can let go these temporal things for His Name's sake.
Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast SEEN, and the things WHICH ARE, and the things which shall be HEREAFTER;
Things which thou hast SEEN ( Rev 1:1-18) things which ARE ( Revelation 2,3) things which shall be HEREAFTER ( Revelation 4:1)
John wrote down what he had seen, in the order in which he saw them.
REV 2,3 'WHICH ARE' CHURCHES IN JOHNS TIME/CHURCHES TODAY
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
Rapture 'seizing and carrying off'
There have been raptures already just by the definition above, more yet to come.
Enoch, Elijah, Captives free in the OT are 'raptures'
RAPTURES DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION.
(Disclaimer: John wrote it) Those who repent during tribulation before the 7th seal, later 144,000 and Two witnesses. Salvation will be available to those who ask for God's grace before the 7th seal though they must endure the first 6 seals.
REV 4:1 RAPTURE/TRIB (Dead in Christ rise first, they which are alive) 6 SEALS ( REV 7:14 Great multitude..'out of' meaning within. Two Witnesses, 144,000 man child)
TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION SEEK HIM WHILE HE MAY BE FOUND!
Mark 13:32 -But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
RAPTURE/START OF TRIBULATION ( Rev 4:2/19:11-21) 2ND COMING OF CHRIST
Chapter 7 starts 'after these' so chapters 4,5,6 have happened.
LITTLE HORN UPROOTS 3 NATIONS, AND OTHER 6 FALL IN LINE. AFTER 3.5 YEARS OF WAR.
Zechariah 14:16-23 - After Tribulation 'Those that left' 'year to year' for 1000 years. Will live, age, multiply and die. In Heaven until 1000 years are up. These nations satan will be let loose to deceive the nations one last time.
NOT THOSE RAPTURED SAINTS WITH CHRIST 2ND Coming, THEY WILL BE ETERNAL
Thank you Spencer... I read this article from Donahue he puts forth a compelling argument. I copied and pasted it as is unchanged.
"ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" VERSUS REVELATION 3:5
by PATRICK DONAHUE
Revelation 3:5 reads "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."How could the doctrine of "once saved always saved" be true if the above verse is true? The same book shows that a person's name is not written into the "Book Of Life" unless he is saved:
20:15 whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
21:27 no one will "enter into it (heaven) any thing that defileth, neither worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."
Revelation 3:5 then necessarily implies that if a saved person does not overcome (temptation, persecution, etc.), if he does not remain faithful, then his name will be erased from the book of life, meaning he will no longer be in a saved relationship with God.
Other Bible passages teach the same thing about the book of life. When the Israelites made the golden calf while Moses was on the mount receiving the 10 commandments, God said in Exodus 32:33: Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Only the names of the saved are in the "book of life" to start with. And if it is possible to get your name blotted / taken out of the book of life, then it is clear that it is possible for a saved person to lose his salvation.The doctrine that a Christian cannot "fall from grace" is just plain untrue.
I would say no, not at all. Revelation 3:5 says, "He that overcomes." That's a Present Participle. It should read "To the one who is overcoming, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
The Old Testament tells us there's more than one book ( Exodus 32:32-33, Daniel 12:1-2, Daniel 12:7-10, Psalm 69:28).
There's the book of life which has listed in it everybody that has received human life. And then there's the book of the Lamb, those who belong to Christ.
In the book of life, if a person rejects Christ, their name is removed from the book of life as if they've never been born. They're gone!
But no one is ever blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
If you go back into the Old Testament and you study from those references, it will show you that there's more than one book. And the Jews knew that.
It's not that God has books up there. But it's just a human example or an illustration that God knows everything, all the people that have been born, and all the people that belong to Christ.
He say I will not blot out his name out of the book of life. And I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Jesus said that He would do that.
A person whose name is in the Lamb's book of life will never be blotted out. That's how permanent salvation is!
First I have to make a confession of all the books of the entire bible I am the weakest on the book of Revelation.
My question is having this verse in revelation:
Revelation 3:5 (KJV) 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Doesn't that cause a real issue for the "once saved always saved" advocates?
Once again; the verse "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom" is a necessary verse to quote and is found in Proverbs as well as at least a couple places in Psalms. Assuming that there is a genuine conversion needs to be in word and deed. Confessing with our mouth must be accompanied by believing in our heart ( Romans 10:9-10). Believing in our heart must involve; of course a heart change as Ezekiel 36:26 indicates. Evidence of that is an understanding that as sinners we are coming from being ENEMIES of God (i.e. the enmity is in both directions) as Romans 5:10 indicates. True faith understands the painful sacrifice of Christ to pay the redemption through the atonement which only His blood could do in our behalf. Obedience accompanies true love for God as John 14:15 indicates. RECOGNITION that we are crucified with Christ ( Galatians 2:20) means that our new nature is now having new affections and the old one is something which we no longer find our "default" mode. We are beyond wanting to avoid sin because of the consequences but because we recognize that we are offending a Holy God who dwells in us ( 2 Cor. 5:1; and apparently the meaning implicit in John 1:14 where He dwells in us. True salvation never brings contentment with sin; we may fall away but as Proverbs says in chapter 24; verse 16 he rises again; but it is not so for the wicked. We are saved by grace but always have potential to sin and a true believer will be as Paul was cognizant and wary of anything that will get in the way until the end of this earthly existance ( Philippians 3:12-14). This is like 1 Corinthians 9:24 in striving to gain the prize.
Another related situation is that a true believer recognizes that rewards can be attained or lost according to Revelation 3:11. Realizing that we can enter heaven but as through the fire suffering loss ( 1 Cor. 3:15) shows salvation is the beginning of the journey of a truly saved person
1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by.
The accuser or the enemy of our souls was apparently in some sort of compromised state due to sin. The specific cause isn't there but his garments were filthy (see Revelation 3:4 the state of many in Sardis). To be able to be in God's presence we must be unspotted ( Eph. 5:27). Therefore; the Lord forgave the iniquity (verse 4) and gave him fresh garments and a mitre (v. 5).
6 And the angel of the Lord protested unto Joshua, saying,
7 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.
These verses show a sort of permanence to Joshua's ministry if he continues in God's path. The indication in the rest of the chapter is the Lord Himself has to ensure him as well as the rest of us that through His atonement. The later part of verse 7 probably indicates other heavenly angels or other saints that may be part of the "cloud of witnesses" perhaps alluding to Heb. 12:1-2?
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
This verse shows much like Matthew 24:36 that some things apparently are still appropriated by the Father; at least in regard to the timing of events in the future and the day and hour they begin. Admittedly; this is a mystery as Christ is fully God and fully man but we can learn the Godhead and how the Son does nothing apart from the Father here at the very least ( John 5:19). Indeed that verse says the Son can do NOTHING of Himself; which could have been particularly true during His earthly ministry.
Nonetheless we see that death could not overcome Him ( Acts 2:24). God exalted Him as High Priest and King and gave Him all authority in heaven and earth positionally ( Matt. 28:18); restoring the position which He no doubt had since He was the One who created all things ( Colossians 1:16).
verse 3 states Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. It reminds us of the verse in Revelation 22:12 where He states that He comes quickly; and the delay of the church age can be seen in the verse Habakkuk 2:3 where it says although it tarries wait for it and the original language shows that it will surely come in its time and not delay. There is a crown; in fact for those who patiently wait for it; we are warned against losing our crown in Revelation 3:10. See also 2 Timothy 4:8 and Malachi 3:16.
The subsequent chapters show what happens when one casts aside their first love (with the Ephesian church); and other churches as to false doctrines. Since only God knows when the Rapture and subsequent Tribulation begins; any attempt for Satan to bring it forth sooner will fail so many will not believe it when it truly comes.
Brother SSpencer has given you a perfect explanation of God's salvation, I can't add anything.
About baptism:
Baptism is not being immersed in physical water.
You are baptised into the knowledge of the death and resurrection of Christ.
Christ died for YOU, you died on the cross with Christ, three days later a new CREATION AROSE, a husband, Christ and his wife, YOU. You were joined in a marriage, you took the name of your husband, you were baptised in the name of Jesus, Jesus is the life and you are his body.
Ephesians 4:4 ...ONE BODY ..... ONE SPIRIT ......
Ephesians 4:5 .... One Lord (truth, life, the way), one faith (the faith of Jesus, you life), one baptism (your married name, baptised in THE NAME of Jesus.
Revelation 3:12 ..... and I will writer upon him the NAME of my God .... and I will write upon him my NEW NAME .....
2 Corinthians 5:17 .... old things are passed away, behold, all things are BECOME NEW ....
Revelation 21:5 ..... Behold, I make all things NEW .....
Revelation 15:3 ..... Great and marvellous are THY WORKS, Lord God Almighty .....
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
First one must turn (repent) from what God considers sin.
second, be completely immersed (baptized) in water while calling on and believing Jesus, (just as Jesus and all new converts were baptized.)
and third you will have the Holy Spirit.
These 3 signify: your death to sin as Jesus died for our sin. Your burial as Jesus was intombed (buried). And your new life guided by God whereas Jesus rose from the dead and was glorified.
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
The WAR has been won; individual battles are in our lives to determine our loyalties; as well as ensure rewards for faithful service.
Jesus is our advocate; and able to intercede to the Father on our behalf so that our prayers ultimately will be effectively in sync with His will for us and be answered accordingly. We are also in prayer as warriors ( Ephesians 6); as others are going through like tempations and trials ( 1 Peter 5:9). That is something needing to be emphasized; as a runner trains through exercise; we need to be vigilant in prayer for others as it helps to strengthen us as well as get our mind off our own troubles.
To effectively fight we need to actively resist sin; and check ourselves frequently. Any legal access by sin exposes a weak spot in our armor which the enemy is; no doubt looking forward to taking advantage of.
The truth is; as I see it there are few believers who take Satan seriously enough. We only have victory through Christ to effectively fight through the sword of the Spirit. As the other comment suggested this is hostile territory; another concept it seems few seem to grasp today. Remember though if you are being assaulted; it is because you are a threat to the powers of darkness; which I would say few believers are when it is easy to distract them with the endless sources of entertainment today.
It is Agape love; which gives you the strength; joy and victory over an enemy that seeks to steal; kill and destroy.
I call the enemy an "equal opportunity destroyer." He will use any means necessary; our own fears; other people; circumstances; ailments; etc. to try to stop others from hearing the Good News. He cannot stop the Lord's plans ultimately; and cannot take our rewards either unless we forfeit it ourselves ( Revelation 3:11).
Let us be as the Philadelphia church which has "little strength" but endures until He comes; and is able to enter through the open door at the Rapture.
Genesis 15:1 is the only scripture I have found that shows that God Himself is our reward. Certainly it is enough; and will be enough for those saved even without receiving rewards to know that He fulfilled what was needed on their behalf despite only getting to heaven as though "through the fire." ( 1 Cor. 3:15). Hebrews 11:6 states that we MUST believe that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. That is part of the nature of God; and should help us desire to see our brothers and sisters exalted and rejoice in the small ways God can use our service to help build them up in the faith. The admonition of Revelation 3:11 should also keep us pursuing the Lord until the end as we can lose our rewards to another if not careful.
I have probably discussed before several pasages on the type of rewards due to particular service which we do based (hopefully) on our gifts and calling. The reader can look up passages related to faithful preaching of the Word (and the more stringent judgments attached to that responsibility); those who patiently await His coming as Malachi 3 discusses with the book of remembrance and other verses talking about patient endurance until the end; and of course rewards for the martyrs for Christ.
These would no doubt represent levels of authority in some respect in heaven; and I have also brought up the verses in regard to ruling few or many cities; also we could look at 1 Cor. 5:41 for that. We should also note the reward of the evangelist those who lead many to righteousness shining as the stars in Daniel 12:3. That could also refer to end time events as with that of the great multitude martyred seen in heaven in association with the 144,000 taken from the Great Tribulation ( Rev. 7:9).
What we often don't account for is God creating something new in those who are not yet in the sheep fold. His steadfastness means that He can use someone else when we aren't diligent as Revelation 3:11 warns us. It also means that the random mess which is our lives with the world at large can be part of a larger picture that only He; the Master artist can conceive in its finished form. I say this realizing that the opposite being true. There are some who may appear to be steadfast in their walk who fall away at a later date. Therefore we shouldn't ever place our confidence in men; let God be true and every man a liar. (look it up my data is overspent so it is hard to find the corresponding verses on a search).
As for those who are mentioned in Hebrews 11; the next chapter makes it clear that they are looking for a new country; not something currently established on the earth. Such are many promises; not to be fulfilled in their visible manifestations at least until the future Kingdom rule and eternity. This serves as a fair warning to us with scriptures like Jesus had for the Pharisees that they already "had their reward." Therefore; we are not to lose the baby with the bathwater so to speak; God's promises can be held as true for financial purposes that ultimately fulfill His will. I have seen this in a recent example I mentioned before of a missinary looking to procure funds for building a hospital. This means; of course we should be proactive ourselves as being a blessing for someone else; especially if we are looking for the same thing ourselves. God wants us to be a cheerful giver; and what we do for others is reflected on what the Lord will perform in our lives. That is not some esoteric statement or karma it is God's principle. Casting our bread on the waters; therefore brings it back sevenfold.
Looking to His promises we of course should adhere to Psalm 51 and have a contrite and humble spirit as David did.
Luke 12:3 and Matthew 12:36 are eye opening; as we are to give account for everything said and nothing is secret to God.
I would like to say that I don't do any grumbling or complaining; but alas then I would be lying. Thankfully anything but blasphemy against the Spirit can be forgiven. As Jesus pointed out to the self-righteous Pharisees; these bad fruits come from within. And 2 Peter 2:21 makes it clear that it is better not to have known the truth than to become reprobate. The blood of Christ is our only hope as Jeremiah 17:9 shows how sick the heart is.
There are Post Millennialists who dispute this; but I don't believe anyone from the church age who is a believer will be at the Great White Throne Judgment. I DO have the opinion that since the verse indicates that those who aren't in the Book of Life are going to the lake of fire; there is room for those who physically survive the Millennial period to go through that as saved people and hence be translated into heaven without dying.
In any event; 1 Corinthians 3:15 indicates that one can make it into heaven and suffer loss. That would be analogous to losing rewards as Revelation 3:11 warns. Paul indicates how we run for the prize. Only a few gain great rewards; as would be indicated by those making 100 fold as opposed to 30 fold returns or others ( Mark 4:20). We should not be confined to just the saved and lost divisions when scripture gives us admonitions for certain crowns that those who persevere; are martyred or are pastors as well as other situations are given for faithfulness.
Matthew 6:19-21 shows us that our treasure is to be in heaven. And that means that He must trust us with earthly riches as well ( Luke 16:10-12) as a test; a prerequisite for heavenly riches. Our brothers in Christ that we support in the ministry will be able to enjoy the harvest with us (see John 4:37). That and personal witnessing are components of fulfilling the Great Commission to finish well.
My gifting is in discernment and sadly I have still much softening needed in my heart and soul; partially due no doubt to the divorce I had to go through the better part of 10 years ago. My views against remarriage when a spouse is alive isn't something I'm going to push on this site but I know the Lord has given me another specific calling to warn others about the subject. It is risky mentioning this as there are some who I love in Christ who have been offended but I must speak what I believe He has given me to say.
I suppose I could use prayer that I can somehow be bolder sharing on my job; although often I'm too busy working fast paced in my food service work. If the Lord tarries once my elderly parents (in their 90s) have passed then I probably will revert back to spending more of my time witnessing; so that is part of the reason I belt out so much stuff now; along with whatever writing talent the Lord has given me.
I can only hope that as Daniel states some will shine as the stars in the sky (or firmament- Daniel 12:3) as a result of some message whether it is myself or someone else at this site or elsewhere. The true experience of being filled with the Spirit I contend is rare and you have to search like it for gold and eventually you will begin to be able to know when it is present.
You will see it in others mainly; and is in a minority of professing believers. Again I appeal to the scriptures on running for the prize ( Philippians 3:3) and even Paul said it can be forfeited ( 1 Cor. 9:27; see also Revelation 3:11).
The Laodicean church is what many consider to typify the last stages or phase of church history. It is clear from that passage that only a few there are worthy; as we see in Revelation 3:4 with the church of Sardis as well. The general state is one of a pitiful state of spiritual poverty which the outer adornment; much like the Pharisees cleaning the outer parts of their vessels which appear to be showing opulence. Matthew 25:9 reminds me of those who need to pay the price for receiving the refreshing of the Holy Spirit as it will be with the fiery trial and mass martyrdom of the Tribulation. I see this as an example of those who have patiently waited for the Lord and now receive their reward because of enduring much as Lot did until the Lord rescued him from the disaster to come (see 2 Tim. 4:8). Those who are in a Laodicean church aren't putting themselves or anyone else into persecution as all those who are godly in Christ Jesus suffer ( 2 Tim. 3:12). Whether they are truly saved or not ultimately will be determined by God; I tend to see the Rapture as a reward issue but if I'm wrong then rewards will be lost for those backslidden ( Rev. 3:11); and it is certain many aren't truly saved now but many will wake up on the other side of the rapture; whether left behind people who professed Christ beforehand or new converts.
As to the second part of my study on the Jews suffering Tribulation first; we can of course see that pattern in many Old Testament passages as well as the many wars in history; the most obvious recent one of worldwide significance being World War two. This current Hamas battle also started with an attack causing suffering to Jews. These verses would show the military campaigns that will occur prior to Armageddon as well when God finally defends His people ( Zech. 14:2) and then the nations are dealt with. The various judgments will be centered on Israel as well.
Thank you again, from my heart, the truth is my search not to offend. It all goes back to one verse when I read it, it stood out in my heart, Corinthians 11:4. I know I am alone here on this, but saying Jesus is part of the Triune God, who eternally exists and expresses himself as three distinct persons with one essence all three co-equal. One God in three persons-the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This to me denies the Son, 1 John 2:23
What I see in the Bible is the relationship between the Father and the Son, the Son is obedient to the Father. Jesus said His Father is greater than Him, John 14:28. Jesus has said the Father is His God, John 20:17 Revelation 3:12.
The Bible defines God's nature as eternal and unchanging; there is only one throne of God and through the Bible, only the Father is on the throne until the Father raised His Son from the dead and placed Him on His right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, there is nothing about the Holy Spirit.
As we see in Revelation Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple and the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof, Rev. 21:22-23 no Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, not another person.
Jesus confirmed there is only one true God, Mark 12:28-34, in Jesus's prayer to His Father said in John 17:3. All the greetings in the New Testament are from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, Galatians 1:3 Ephesians 6:23 1 Thessalonians 1:1 2 Timothy 1:2 Titus 1:4 2 John 1:3 and more but no Holy Spirit.
If the Trinity true and is so important, why is it not once taught in Scripture? God cannot change and God cannot die, so how do we understand John 3:16 if God the Father did not send his actual begotten Son to die for our sins? We see Jesus also had His own will, Luke 22:42.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2
God made Jesus Lord, Acts 2:36, made is thee Greek word ginomai that means to come into being, to happen, to become. This was foreordained before the foundation of the world and this Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:19-20 Revelation 13:8, foreordained the Greek word proginosko means to know beforehand to appoint or decree beforehand.
I see too many Scriptures that do not agree with the doctrine. I hope this makes sense. This is Scripture without man's knowledge or wisdom 1 Corinthians 1:22 Jeremiah 10:10 10 Malachi 2:10 Mark 12:32
Paul wrote these; Romans 3:30 Romans 15:6 1 Corinthians 8:6 2 Corinthians 1:3 2 Corinthians 11:31 Ephesians 1:3 Ephesians 1:17 Ephesians 3:14 Ephesians 4:6 Colossians 1:3 1 Timothy 2:5
Peter wrote this; 1 Peter 1:3
These are Jesus's words Himself; Matthew 27:46 Same in Mark 15:34 John 14:28 John 17:3 John 20:17 Revelation 3:12
What this says to me, there is only one true God who is the God and Father of Jesus,
These Scriptures are clear without our wisdom or knowledge do not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. I do thank you and again I hope you do not consider me a Gnostic that would be sad, they are more of a philosophical like the immortal soul came from Greek philosophy, I am believer and follower of Jesus our Lord and savior.
God bless,
RLW
Yet, with Colossians 1:15, "the firstborn of every creature" (or, creation), doesn't seem to imply that believers are the object; though you (or, your Church) feels it does: "that first born of all creation means that Jesus was the first child of God among all other born(again) children (us, God's children)". It's interesting that 'creation' is used here, which doesn't seem to easily bring Christ's Church into its meaning.
That was interesting about the usage of 'arche', that it could be applied to rulers, principalities, etc. I checked your reference Revelation 3:14, and though the application of 'arche' is defined as "that by which anything begins to be, the origin, active cause", your other references ( Colossians 1:16 & Ephesians 3:10) certainly apply to 'principalities/rulers'. And other references are given in support of this: Luke 12:11, Titus 3:1, Ephesians 1:21, Colossians 2:10, & others. So thank you for giving us more to consider in this matter.
If I may respond to your good questions brother Ronald.
a. Revelation 3:14, "These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God". I think you're stating that Jesus existed in Heaven (i.e. before the rest of God's creative Work done by Him) & then came to Earth as a babe. Apologies if I've misunderstood, as this understanding is at variance with the general belief by the non-trinitarian, that Jesus made His first appearance as a human & He had no existence before that.
True, there were two 'Adams': "The first man (Adam) is of the earth, earthy: the second man (Adam) is the Lord from heaven" ( 1 Corinthians 15:47). Is Paul suggesting that this Jesus, before all creation, was also the Lord from Heaven or mistaken, that He was a sub-Lord? Then the question, 'if Jesus was created by God before other of His created Works, what was His position in Heaven - was He God's Assistant in His Works or the Lord Who shared (partook) in God's Glory' ( John 17:5) - or maybe God created another god (but how would that work for God cannot be created, or else the created one can never be a supreme God?).
And Jesus must have been immortal as all heavenly beings are & all humans are (having an immortal spirit that can never die). So, maybe some clarification on how you understand this matter. Then back to Revelation 3:14: we can also bring in Colossians 1:15-17: Jesus, as One from God, stands then as He is now, the Image of the invisible God, Who not only created all things "by Him (Himself), but for Him (Himself)". If He then is "the firstborn of every creature" (v15) & "the firstborn from the dead" (v18), this might indicate that from examination of this word, 'firstborn' (prototokos), we can understand this "beginning of God's Creation & firstborn of every creature". And also in Revelation 3:14, the "beginning" of the creation of God: 'arche', from which we get words like 'arche-type'. Onto Page 2.
"I hope the Lord waits until my kids grow up; get married; etc."
"I hope the Lord lets me stay until (so and so) becomes a Christian"
"I'll show 'em; let me be one of the 144,000; or hang out afterwards it can't be that bad at the start..."
The facetious dialogues suggested above are more are less a compilation of several arguments BELIEVERS have given in my presence in the past when this subject came up. Let us examine them in light of the scriptures...
First point; in heaven there will be no regret as far as "missing out" on anything this earth had to offer. That is; unless we have squandered the opportunity NOW to witness and do those things which forfeited rewards in light of the admonitions of Revelation 3:11. Our children will be where their angels are already "beholding the Father in heaven continually." ( Matt. 18:10).
The second argument assumes that God is somehow derelict in His duty to bring the "fullness of the Gentiles in" ( Romans 11:25) which in truth may not occur completely at the Rapture but before the Second Coming. Nonetheless; the multitudes that come to Christ that can't be counted may never have come at least as quickly without the fiery trials the Lord designed to purge out the dross during the Tribulation. ( Revelation 7:9). We should also appreciate the fact in verses such as Psalm 40 which states "many will see and fear" (verse 3). This seems to indicate with the surrounding verses we will be raptured/resurrected from the ground; SURELY the Resurrection of the saints cannot be explained away and will be common knowledge (even if they say the UFO's abducted those raptured it's harder to explain those already deceased).
The third point is that even in the seal judgments there is a direct opening of these seals by Christ Himself with a fourth of the earth dying (at least) at that time. No one can outplan or outwit God in saving provisions for that time (see James 5:3).
When John came preaching the Kingdom of God, as the forerunner of Christ, all that was available to understand the Kingdom of God was Moses and the Prophets.
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth HIS SECRETS to his servants the Prophets.
Moses and the Prophets is the REVEALING of the Kingdom of God, a kingdom here on earth.
Nowhere in Moses and the Prophets does it say the reward of the righteous is Heaven, nor nowhere does it say the reward of the wicked is HELL.
What it does say is the wicked shall be JUDGED by the righteous.
The wages of sin is DEATH.
Christ came and he and all creation was crucified for the sins of the world.
Christ died for us in the sense we did not have to suffer the wrath of God poured out on him.
But we died just as he die.
Only Christ arose and we as joint heirs with Christ, SAVED from ever dying again.
But there are two kinds of people in this world, believers and unbelievers, symbolised by the two malefactors crucified with Christ, one believed, one did not believe, one went to the presence of God, the other went to the grave to await the second resurrection.
The Believers WERE SAVED at the first resurrection: believing they were resurrected as ONE FLESH with Christ.
The unbelievers will DIE and go to the GRAVE, and await the second resurrection, and will be judged and ruled over by the BELIEVERS of God's word.
The reference in Moses and the Prophets is they will be the wood choppers and water haulers, and they will bow the knee.
Revelation 3:9 Behold, I WILL MAKE THEM of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews (circumcised in the heart) and are not, but do lie, behold, I WILL MAKE THEM come and worship before thy feet, and TO KNOW that I have love thee
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of CREATION WAITETH (in the grave) for the MANIFESTATION of the Sons of God,
Romans 8:21 For creation itself ALSO SHALL BE DELIVERED from the bongage of corruption ......
Colossians 3:1-3
"And has raised us up together, and made us sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." Ephesians 2:26
So then, in part, this day is spoken of while the work of Christ continues in earthen vessels.
"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, am am set down with my Father in his throne." Revelation 3:21
So, here are some passages to start you off, but in your reading of the Bible, God's Spirit will alert you to what you seek or even where some action needs to be taken in your own life.
For "Consequences", see: Genesis 2:15-17; Genesis 3:16-19; Deuteronomy 28:1,2,15; 1 Kings 11:9-11; Job 4:8,9; Isaiah 59:2; Jeremiah 17:9,10; Matthew 27:3-5; Romans 6:23; Romans 13:4; Galatians 6:7,8; 1 Timothy 5:8; James 2:10; Revelation 20:12-15.
For "Correction", see: Proverbs 22:6; Proverbs 29:15; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Galatians 6:1; Ephesians 6:4; 2 Timothy 4:2; Hebrews 12:5-11; Revelation 3:19.
These are just a very few Scriptures, reminding us that there will always be consequences for our actions, not just in our dealings with each other, but more importantly, as we stand before God. But this God of Love always gives sinful wayward man an escape route, from a life of sin to a life of holiness & love - and His Name is Jesus.
Revelation 2:1 Unto the ANGEL of the church ....write ....
Revelation 2:8 Unto the ANGEL of the church ..... write.....
Revelation 2:12 Unto the ANGEL of the church ..... write .....
Revelation 2:18 Unto the ANGEL of the church ....write .....
Revelation 3:1 Unto the ANGEL of the church ..... write ......
Revelation 3:7 Unto the ANGEL of the church.... write ....
Revelation 3:14 Unto the ANGEL of the church ..... write ......
The word says the message is to the angel of the church, just as relevant for today as then, the word is for ALL AGES.
YOU are the angel (messenger) of the church, and the church is Christ, and YOU and Christ were made ONE flesh at his resurrection.
God Bless YOU!
Most of the Psalms convey a prophecy of Christ.
This Psalm is a prophecy of what the works of his cross will accomplish.
Psalms 75:1 Unto thee do we give thanks, for THY NAME is near (as) thy WONDROUS WORKS declare.
We were married to Christ, becoming one flesh, and bearing HIS NAME, at his resurrection.
Psalms 57:2 When I (Christ) RECEIVE the congregation ( Psalms 2:8) I (Christ) will judge uprightly.
Psalms 57:3 The earth and the inhabitants thereof are dissolved (they will died on the cross). I (Christ) will bear the PILLARS ( Revelation 3:12 the NEW CREATION) of it.
Psalms 57:4 I (Christ) said unto the fools (all of us, because we have not knowledge of the works of God); Deal not foolishly: and unto the wicked (all of us), Lift not up the horn (a symbol of power).
Psalms 57:5 Lift not up your horn on high, speak not with a stiff neck.
Psalms 57:6 For PROMOTION (going form a foolish, stiff necked people: to the sons of God) cometh neither from the east, nor the west, nor the south,
Psalms 57:7 But (from) God (who) is the judge, he putteth down one (all of us, the foolish and stiff necked), and setteth up another (the sons of GOD).
All by the RESURRECTION of Christ.
God BLESS YOU.
1 Thessalonians 5:2
"For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."
1 Thessalonians 4:16
"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"
1 Thessalonians 4:17
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (7 years in Heaven and in Revelation 19:11-21 Christ returns with His Saints and the Angels)
Revelation 3:10
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
Matthew 5:12
"Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in Heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
John 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Grace and Salvation and the Holy Spirit will remain. The Body of Christ is he who hinders, God said the Holy Spirit will abide with thee forever. Zech 14:16-21 speaks of those that are left, without the mark or and who did not worship the image will serve year to year.
Isaiah 19:23-25
23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.
In the end; he who lives by the sword dies by the sword. ( Matt. 26:52; also see Revelation 13:10). As Christians we are to remain as salt and light to resist the decay that the current world system under Satanic influence is headed toward. Similarly; we should not cede to others things that are inalienable rights that our forefathers fought so hard for and is enacted in our Constitution and other important legal documents as to how a Republic is to be run. We shouldn't; however make that our priority; as His Kingdom is not of this world ( John 18:36). We see ways; for instance with certain bitcoin currencies how we can be in an internationally accepted means of exchange (for now) which is an alternative to the electronic cash and other efforts governments and private banks are attempting to control the narrative and our lives. It is hard to say if we do have a sort of one world government how far it will progress before the Tribulation; peace is taken from the earth at the 2nd Seal; that leaves us to wonder if it is just a type of peace that is in effect since just the first seal or if it has lasted a while.
One world religion again is something that is developing; we are responsible to hold onto the Philadelphian type church and patiently endure as Revelation 3:10 states until the Lord comes back to receive our reward even with little strength. We must avoid any false revival and not expect mass conversions at a time when many are said to fall away if we are indeed in the last days ( 1 Timothy 4:1 and also see Matthew 24:10). If we live in a world system where we have to pay taxes then of course we need wisdom. The plans are clear from the "powers that be" (without having to name the source) that in a few short years we are supposed to be content losing property and any private ownership. So be it; if the Gospel is preached we can let go these temporal things for His Name's sake.
REVELATION IN 3 PARTS Past-Present-Future
Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast SEEN, and the things WHICH ARE, and the things which shall be HEREAFTER;
Things which thou hast SEEN ( Rev 1:1-18) things which ARE ( Revelation 2,3) things which shall be HEREAFTER ( Revelation 4:1)
John wrote down what he had seen, in the order in which he saw them.
REV 2,3 'WHICH ARE' CHURCHES IN JOHNS TIME/CHURCHES TODAY
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
Rapture 'seizing and carrying off'
There have been raptures already just by the definition above, more yet to come.
Enoch, Elijah, Captives free in the OT are 'raptures'
RAPTURES DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION.
(Disclaimer: John wrote it) Those who repent during tribulation before the 7th seal, later 144,000 and Two witnesses. Salvation will be available to those who ask for God's grace before the 7th seal though they must endure the first 6 seals.
REV 4:1 RAPTURE/TRIB (Dead in Christ rise first, they which are alive) 6 SEALS ( REV 7:14 Great multitude..'out of' meaning within. Two Witnesses, 144,000 man child)
TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION SEEK HIM WHILE HE MAY BE FOUND!
Mark 13:32 -But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
RAPTURE/START OF TRIBULATION ( Rev 4:2/19:11-21) 2ND COMING OF CHRIST
Chapter 7 starts 'after these' so chapters 4,5,6 have happened.
LITTLE HORN UPROOTS 3 NATIONS, AND OTHER 6 FALL IN LINE. AFTER 3.5 YEARS OF WAR.
Zechariah 14:16-23 - After Tribulation 'Those that left' 'year to year' for 1000 years. Will live, age, multiply and die. In Heaven until 1000 years are up. These nations satan will be let loose to deceive the nations one last time.
NOT THOSE RAPTURED SAINTS WITH CHRIST 2ND Coming, THEY WILL BE ETERNAL
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"ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" VERSUS REVELATION 3:5
by PATRICK DONAHUE
Revelation 3:5 reads "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."How could the doctrine of "once saved always saved" be true if the above verse is true? The same book shows that a person's name is not written into the "Book Of Life" unless he is saved:
20:15 whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire
21:27 no one will "enter into it (heaven) any thing that defileth, neither worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."
Revelation 3:5 then necessarily implies that if a saved person does not overcome (temptation, persecution, etc.), if he does not remain faithful, then his name will be erased from the book of life, meaning he will no longer be in a saved relationship with God.
Other Bible passages teach the same thing about the book of life. When the Israelites made the golden calf while Moses was on the mount receiving the 10 commandments, God said in Exodus 32:33: Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Only the names of the saved are in the "book of life" to start with. And if it is possible to get your name blotted / taken out of the book of life, then it is clear that it is possible for a saved person to lose his salvation.The doctrine that a Christian cannot "fall from grace" is just plain untrue.
I would say no, not at all. Revelation 3:5 says, "He that overcomes." That's a Present Participle. It should read "To the one who is overcoming, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
The Old Testament tells us there's more than one book ( Exodus 32:32-33, Daniel 12:1-2, Daniel 12:7-10, Psalm 69:28).
There's the book of life which has listed in it everybody that has received human life. And then there's the book of the Lamb, those who belong to Christ.
In the book of life, if a person rejects Christ, their name is removed from the book of life as if they've never been born. They're gone!
But no one is ever blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
If you go back into the Old Testament and you study from those references, it will show you that there's more than one book. And the Jews knew that.
It's not that God has books up there. But it's just a human example or an illustration that God knows everything, all the people that have been born, and all the people that belong to Christ.
He say I will not blot out his name out of the book of life. And I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Jesus said that He would do that.
A person whose name is in the Lamb's book of life will never be blotted out. That's how permanent salvation is!
God Bless!!!
My question is having this verse in revelation:
Revelation 3:5 (KJV) 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Doesn't that cause a real issue for the "once saved always saved" advocates?
Once again; the verse "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom" is a necessary verse to quote and is found in Proverbs as well as at least a couple places in Psalms. Assuming that there is a genuine conversion needs to be in word and deed. Confessing with our mouth must be accompanied by believing in our heart ( Romans 10:9-10). Believing in our heart must involve; of course a heart change as Ezekiel 36:26 indicates. Evidence of that is an understanding that as sinners we are coming from being ENEMIES of God (i.e. the enmity is in both directions) as Romans 5:10 indicates. True faith understands the painful sacrifice of Christ to pay the redemption through the atonement which only His blood could do in our behalf. Obedience accompanies true love for God as John 14:15 indicates. RECOGNITION that we are crucified with Christ ( Galatians 2:20) means that our new nature is now having new affections and the old one is something which we no longer find our "default" mode. We are beyond wanting to avoid sin because of the consequences but because we recognize that we are offending a Holy God who dwells in us ( 2 Cor. 5:1; and apparently the meaning implicit in John 1:14 where He dwells in us. True salvation never brings contentment with sin; we may fall away but as Proverbs says in chapter 24; verse 16 he rises again; but it is not so for the wicked. We are saved by grace but always have potential to sin and a true believer will be as Paul was cognizant and wary of anything that will get in the way until the end of this earthly existance ( Philippians 3:12-14). This is like 1 Corinthians 9:24 in striving to gain the prize.
Another related situation is that a true believer recognizes that rewards can be attained or lost according to Revelation 3:11. Realizing that we can enter heaven but as through the fire suffering loss ( 1 Cor. 3:15) shows salvation is the beginning of the journey of a truly saved person
1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by.
The accuser or the enemy of our souls was apparently in some sort of compromised state due to sin. The specific cause isn't there but his garments were filthy (see Revelation 3:4 the state of many in Sardis). To be able to be in God's presence we must be unspotted ( Eph. 5:27). Therefore; the Lord forgave the iniquity (verse 4) and gave him fresh garments and a mitre (v. 5).
6 And the angel of the Lord protested unto Joshua, saying,
7 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.
These verses show a sort of permanence to Joshua's ministry if he continues in God's path. The indication in the rest of the chapter is the Lord Himself has to ensure him as well as the rest of us that through His atonement. The later part of verse 7 probably indicates other heavenly angels or other saints that may be part of the "cloud of witnesses" perhaps alluding to Heb. 12:1-2?
Verse one states:
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
This verse shows much like Matthew 24:36 that some things apparently are still appropriated by the Father; at least in regard to the timing of events in the future and the day and hour they begin. Admittedly; this is a mystery as Christ is fully God and fully man but we can learn the Godhead and how the Son does nothing apart from the Father here at the very least ( John 5:19). Indeed that verse says the Son can do NOTHING of Himself; which could have been particularly true during His earthly ministry.
Nonetheless we see that death could not overcome Him ( Acts 2:24). God exalted Him as High Priest and King and gave Him all authority in heaven and earth positionally ( Matt. 28:18); restoring the position which He no doubt had since He was the One who created all things ( Colossians 1:16).
verse 3 states Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. It reminds us of the verse in Revelation 22:12 where He states that He comes quickly; and the delay of the church age can be seen in the verse Habakkuk 2:3 where it says although it tarries wait for it and the original language shows that it will surely come in its time and not delay. There is a crown; in fact for those who patiently wait for it; we are warned against losing our crown in Revelation 3:10. See also 2 Timothy 4:8 and Malachi 3:16.
The subsequent chapters show what happens when one casts aside their first love (with the Ephesian church); and other churches as to false doctrines. Since only God knows when the Rapture and subsequent Tribulation begins; any attempt for Satan to bring it forth sooner will fail so many will not believe it when it truly comes.
Brother SSpencer has given you a perfect explanation of God's salvation, I can't add anything.
About baptism:
Baptism is not being immersed in physical water.
You are baptised into the knowledge of the death and resurrection of Christ.
Christ died for YOU, you died on the cross with Christ, three days later a new CREATION AROSE, a husband, Christ and his wife, YOU. You were joined in a marriage, you took the name of your husband, you were baptised in the name of Jesus, Jesus is the life and you are his body.
Ephesians 4:4 ...ONE BODY ..... ONE SPIRIT ......
Ephesians 4:5 .... One Lord (truth, life, the way), one faith (the faith of Jesus, you life), one baptism (your married name, baptised in THE NAME of Jesus.
Revelation 3:12 ..... and I will writer upon him the NAME of my God .... and I will write upon him my NEW NAME .....
2 Corinthians 5:17 .... old things are passed away, behold, all things are BECOME NEW ....
Revelation 21:5 ..... Behold, I make all things NEW .....
Revelation 15:3 ..... Great and marvellous are THY WORKS, Lord God Almighty .....
God bless you
First one must turn (repent) from what God considers sin.
second, be completely immersed (baptized) in water while calling on and believing Jesus, (just as Jesus and all new converts were baptized.)
and third you will have the Holy Spirit.
These 3 signify: your death to sin as Jesus died for our sin. Your burial as Jesus was intombed (buried). And your new life guided by God whereas Jesus rose from the dead and was glorified.
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Jesus is our advocate; and able to intercede to the Father on our behalf so that our prayers ultimately will be effectively in sync with His will for us and be answered accordingly. We are also in prayer as warriors ( Ephesians 6); as others are going through like tempations and trials ( 1 Peter 5:9). That is something needing to be emphasized; as a runner trains through exercise; we need to be vigilant in prayer for others as it helps to strengthen us as well as get our mind off our own troubles.
To effectively fight we need to actively resist sin; and check ourselves frequently. Any legal access by sin exposes a weak spot in our armor which the enemy is; no doubt looking forward to taking advantage of.
The truth is; as I see it there are few believers who take Satan seriously enough. We only have victory through Christ to effectively fight through the sword of the Spirit. As the other comment suggested this is hostile territory; another concept it seems few seem to grasp today. Remember though if you are being assaulted; it is because you are a threat to the powers of darkness; which I would say few believers are when it is easy to distract them with the endless sources of entertainment today.
It is Agape love; which gives you the strength; joy and victory over an enemy that seeks to steal; kill and destroy.
I call the enemy an "equal opportunity destroyer." He will use any means necessary; our own fears; other people; circumstances; ailments; etc. to try to stop others from hearing the Good News. He cannot stop the Lord's plans ultimately; and cannot take our rewards either unless we forfeit it ourselves ( Revelation 3:11).
Let us be as the Philadelphia church which has "little strength" but endures until He comes; and is able to enter through the open door at the Rapture.
Agape; Rich P
Rewards in heaven
Genesis 15:1 is the only scripture I have found that shows that God Himself is our reward. Certainly it is enough; and will be enough for those saved even without receiving rewards to know that He fulfilled what was needed on their behalf despite only getting to heaven as though "through the fire." ( 1 Cor. 3:15). Hebrews 11:6 states that we MUST believe that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. That is part of the nature of God; and should help us desire to see our brothers and sisters exalted and rejoice in the small ways God can use our service to help build them up in the faith. The admonition of Revelation 3:11 should also keep us pursuing the Lord until the end as we can lose our rewards to another if not careful.
I have probably discussed before several pasages on the type of rewards due to particular service which we do based (hopefully) on our gifts and calling. The reader can look up passages related to faithful preaching of the Word (and the more stringent judgments attached to that responsibility); those who patiently await His coming as Malachi 3 discusses with the book of remembrance and other verses talking about patient endurance until the end; and of course rewards for the martyrs for Christ.
These would no doubt represent levels of authority in some respect in heaven; and I have also brought up the verses in regard to ruling few or many cities; also we could look at 1 Cor. 5:41 for that. We should also note the reward of the evangelist those who lead many to righteousness shining as the stars in Daniel 12:3. That could also refer to end time events as with that of the great multitude martyred seen in heaven in association with the 144,000 taken from the Great Tribulation ( Rev. 7:9).
To be continued.
What we often don't account for is God creating something new in those who are not yet in the sheep fold. His steadfastness means that He can use someone else when we aren't diligent as Revelation 3:11 warns us. It also means that the random mess which is our lives with the world at large can be part of a larger picture that only He; the Master artist can conceive in its finished form. I say this realizing that the opposite being true. There are some who may appear to be steadfast in their walk who fall away at a later date. Therefore we shouldn't ever place our confidence in men; let God be true and every man a liar. (look it up my data is overspent so it is hard to find the corresponding verses on a search).
As for those who are mentioned in Hebrews 11; the next chapter makes it clear that they are looking for a new country; not something currently established on the earth. Such are many promises; not to be fulfilled in their visible manifestations at least until the future Kingdom rule and eternity. This serves as a fair warning to us with scriptures like Jesus had for the Pharisees that they already "had their reward." Therefore; we are not to lose the baby with the bathwater so to speak; God's promises can be held as true for financial purposes that ultimately fulfill His will. I have seen this in a recent example I mentioned before of a missinary looking to procure funds for building a hospital. This means; of course we should be proactive ourselves as being a blessing for someone else; especially if we are looking for the same thing ourselves. God wants us to be a cheerful giver; and what we do for others is reflected on what the Lord will perform in our lives. That is not some esoteric statement or karma it is God's principle. Casting our bread on the waters; therefore brings it back sevenfold.
Looking to His promises we of course should adhere to Psalm 51 and have a contrite and humble spirit as David did.
I would like to say that I don't do any grumbling or complaining; but alas then I would be lying. Thankfully anything but blasphemy against the Spirit can be forgiven. As Jesus pointed out to the self-righteous Pharisees; these bad fruits come from within. And 2 Peter 2:21 makes it clear that it is better not to have known the truth than to become reprobate. The blood of Christ is our only hope as Jeremiah 17:9 shows how sick the heart is.
There are Post Millennialists who dispute this; but I don't believe anyone from the church age who is a believer will be at the Great White Throne Judgment. I DO have the opinion that since the verse indicates that those who aren't in the Book of Life are going to the lake of fire; there is room for those who physically survive the Millennial period to go through that as saved people and hence be translated into heaven without dying.
In any event; 1 Corinthians 3:15 indicates that one can make it into heaven and suffer loss. That would be analogous to losing rewards as Revelation 3:11 warns. Paul indicates how we run for the prize. Only a few gain great rewards; as would be indicated by those making 100 fold as opposed to 30 fold returns or others ( Mark 4:20). We should not be confined to just the saved and lost divisions when scripture gives us admonitions for certain crowns that those who persevere; are martyred or are pastors as well as other situations are given for faithfulness.
Matthew 6:19-21 shows us that our treasure is to be in heaven. And that means that He must trust us with earthly riches as well ( Luke 16:10-12) as a test; a prerequisite for heavenly riches. Our brothers in Christ that we support in the ministry will be able to enjoy the harvest with us (see John 4:37). That and personal witnessing are components of fulfilling the Great Commission to finish well.
These verses would apply:
1 Corinthians 15:52
Revelation 3:10
1 Thessalonians 5:9
Luke 12:40
Hope this helps!