Thank you, brother, After the first resurrection, their judgement and rewards, Revelation 20:4 and after the 1000 years is the day of judgment for the rest of the dead. Daniel 12:2John 5:28-292 Corinthians 5:10Revelation 20:11-15.
This is our hope, and the promise God has given to us 1 Corinthians 15:51-58, those who are not the chosen and faithful in the first resurrection sleep in death until the day of judgment for all who have lived, Revelation 20:11-15.
It will be awesome but there will be horrible times before He returns. If we are still living, we must be strong in our faith to resist the hour of temptation that is coming. When He returns it will not be some silent secret event, Revelation 1:7 and Matthew 23:39. He will return to the same place from where He ascended, Acts 1:10-11. When He touches His feet back on earth on the Mount of Olives the earth will split with the power and glory that has been given Him by God, Zechariah 14:4.
There will be the chosen and faithful, Revelation 17:14 who have been grafted into the vine in the first resurrection, Revelation 20:5-6 that will be a part of this kingdom and reign for one thousand years.
Thank you for this discussion, it is good to hear salvation is not dependent on this doctrine I have been told in many Churches I have attended I was not saved and was a heretic and shunned.
You know Greek better than I, but my understanding is the word Godhead which was added in the 1500s was translated twice and is misleading. Godhead is in the Bible 3 times, Acts 17:29, Greek word theios which means divine, Romans 1:20, Greek word theiotes which means divinity, divine nature, and Colossians 2:9 Greek word Theotetos which means deity.
The verse Colossians 2:9, in Jesus, dwelleth all the fulness of the deity of God, Jesus was filled without measure with God's Spirit/Holy Spirit John 3:34. John the Baptist said God had told him when Jesus was anointed/baptized John 1:32-33. God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by the Spirit. God gave Jesus power and authority Matthew 11:27. In John 1:14 we probably differ, God in Jesus dwelt/tabernacled among us. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49John 14:10.
Mark 2:5-8 in Matthew 11:25 Things were hidden from the wise and prudent, Scribes, Sadducees, and Pharisees were the ones accusing Jesus of blasphemy, as we see in Matthew 9:6-8, the same event multitudes glorified God. Jesus was given full authority in Matthew 28:18 and John 17:2-3 that we should know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent, same as all the introductions, greetings, and blessings given to the followers of Christ in the New Testament were from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ and in Revelation 21:22.
All authority has been given to Jesus by the Father until the last enemy, death is put under His feet, 1 Corinthians 15:25-28Revelation 20:14.
There are terms in the Bible such as twice dead and Second death. " Jude 1:12, Revelation 2:11, Revelation 20:14 and Revelation 21:8.
Paul says in Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Which death did he die? The 1st or the 2nd?
An unbeliever is ALREADY dead! Yet he is still continuous.
( 1 Timothy 5:6.) This is a very common NT idiom. The word (noun) for "dead" is "nekros" and is used of physical death (obviously) but also spiritual death to describe an unsaved person who is physically alive but spiritually dead. Here are some examples:
Matt 8:22 - But Jesus told him, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead."
Eph 2:1 - As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
Eph 2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.
Eph 5:14 - This is why it is said: "Wake up, sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.
Col 2:13 - When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins.
Eternal Salvation is life! It is separation from this Body/Tabernacle of death.
In Romans 6:3 we see the sacrificial Lamb at work.
In Romans 6:4-5 we see the NEW BIRTH and the first fruit of the Resurrection. This is the 1st Resurrection.
You are either dead right now or you have life right now!
Those who have life has already died once and has been born again, never to die again.
"Eternal life speaks of "spiritual life and death".
That's the only death a believer has. "He's already been born again"
Those who are dead is already spiritual dead and their bodies will soon die, and they will remain spiritual dead throughout eternity.
The bible doesn't say anything about being unconscious after the body dies. It has lots of scripture describing conscious.
If the grave is Hell, the Bible never says anything about the saved going there.
I understand in delays in replies many work and have family responsibilities. This subject is being discussed by several people and I just wanted to share a few points of my understanding on it. The questions were not directed towards you, you can reply to them if you want but they were some of the questions I wrote down when I was studying this subject because some Scriptures seem to support both understandings if not deeply studied, not saying you have not.
Scripture tells us God is love, 1 John 4:8,16 and we have been told God does not have pleasure in the death of the wicked, Ezekiel 33:11 caries us to John 3:16 God does not want us to perish. The Bible tells us the soul that sinneth will die, Ezekiel 18:4 God preserves the souls of the saints Psalms 97:10 the faith and belief in Jesus by the grace of God can save our soul Hebrews 10:39.
Scripture tells us of various degrees of punishment like in Luke 12:46-48Revelation 21:8. In Genesis 2:7 man became a living soul/being, my understanding is the breath of God is the spirit of life which goes back to God when we die whether lost or saved and this body becomes a dead soul that sleeps in the dust until resurrection then the judgment Revelation 20.
To repeat, eternal life is our promise it is something we do not have, only by faith and belief in Jesus Christ by the grace of God we will receive this gift when we are resurrected not before. If we say our souls are immortal, we are saying we already have eternal life, and it is just where are we going to spend it?
My understanding is the lost and wicked punishment is eternal forever, not the punishing, Satan and the fallen angels the beast and false profit will be tormented day and night for ever and ever as we see in Revelation 20:10, but they are not mortal beings like we are, and we see in Matthew 25:41 it was originally prepared for them.
Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
This seems pretty clear to me and hard to misunderstand it unless someone tries to twist it.
If someone doesn't believe punishment is eternal then maybe someone should likewise question whether heaven is eternal, because this verse states them both as being everlasting / eternal.
The Bible says the soul will die, the 2nd death, perish, etc. But how do you know that's not the eternal part, or how can you prove that God allows someone to actually suffer without a soul, etc. Basically people are just speculating, and its not going to get very far.
But perhaps we can all agree that hell is bad and heaven is good? Hell is punishment and something to be avoided, and we need Jesus to avoid it. John 3:16 says this.
Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
You can safely say some will be tormented day and night for ever and ever, because that's literally what this verse says.
Mark 9:43-48 - unquenching fire- you can safely say that hell isn't immediately going away, either. It's likely in full operation.
Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Daniel 12:1-2 ever lasting life vs ever lasting contempt
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 everlasting destruction. This might debunk the human reasoning idea that death or being destroyed must only happen in a short timeframe. This says it can happen 'ever lasting' which seems long term or eternal. So, this verse now explains all the other verses where it makes sense.
Revelation 14:11 smoke of their torment for ever and ever. That doesn't sound immediate or short term to me, but forever.
Thank you Shabbat Keeper for coming back to me. I'll respond to your three recent posts to me with my one here.
Firstly, on the name 'Gehenna', otherwise called the "Valley of Hinnom", the Encyclopaedia definition is quite correct about the purpose why that area was set aside. It was indeed a place for the burning of refuse & the dead. And yes, it meant that they were all annihilated - no more evidence except dust & ashes. So, it can mean 'annihilation', but Gehenna can also mean 'a place of burning where the fires are never quenched'. And we know that the body is disposed of there, but what about the immaterial parts of man that remains accountable to God? And you also referenced a verse I quoted in Matthew 10:28. Taken on its own, that verse could well support your belief of a complete extermination of body, soul & spirit.
But it was for that very reason that I gave you the other verses to look up & consider. Not only was Matthew 10:28 Jesus' Words, but also Matthew 5:22,29,30; Matthew 23:33; Mark 9:43; Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:10,11-15. You didn't take these into account. And we know, as I trust you are conversant, that when we deal with a topic or a doctrine from the Bible, we need to take in all the references that deal specifically with it. Unfortunately, our natural human instinct is to accept only those that we find palatable or in agreement with, thus distorting the teaching from the Word.
So, if you would care to look at those other verses & see how they affect your understanding of Matthew 10:28, I would be very interested. It's only when we consider all verses on a subject, can we get a fuller picture of it meaning & its implications. However, sometimes there aren't too many verses to help us learn about the subject - in such cases we can't force a teaching by them & just leave the subject open. Yet, not so with these important doctrines of the Deity of Christ & human existence & punishment after death.
In Luke 16:19-31, we read about the rich man and Lazarus. What I notice is that they both died. It speaks of the rich man being in Hades, and being in torment. What is interesting if you read through that section, the rich man can feel, he can speak, he can see, he can remember, and he is in torment. Notice in Verse 26 that there is a great gulf fixed and no one is able to cross over from one side to the other. There is no hope for those on the opposite side of Abraham's bosom. The question here is, why didn't the rich man cease to exist when he died?
In Mark 9:43-47, even though this is not literally talking about plucking your eye out or cutting off your hand, it does speak of some entering into life, and some being cast into Hell. If the wicked one who has rejected Christ dies and ceases to exist, how can he be cast into Hell?
In Revelation 20:5, it tells us that the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. Obviously, there must have been a previous resurrection because this talks about the rest of the dead not being resurrected until after the 1,000-year reign. How can those who cease to exist be resurrected? How do you raise or resurrect something that does not exist?
John 5:29 says, "And come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." Again, how do you resurrect and judge someone that does not exist?
Again, in Luke 16:28, the rich man says, "For I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment." This rich man is in a place of torment. He did not cease to exist when he died. Why not?
I just have a few more questions if you don't mind, so I will need one more post.
Actually Shabbat Keeper, I wasn't intending to bring up the Rapture debate here, as it has been well discussed over the years. Rather, I was intending to give, maybe a rather flimsy example of a type of Gospel message, telling unbelievers that "when we turn to the Lord for forgiveness of our sins & receiving Christ into our life, then we will not face (physical) death, but just be raptured (caught up, as with Enoch/Elijah), to forever be with him". Here then would be something for the unbeliever to consider, because as sure as day turns into night, we all (believer & unbeliever alike) will face death - whether this thought leaves an 'icky' feeling in us depends on how we view death. So, rapture is not my issue here, but why is death any more of a punishment when we all have to die & knowing that death (of the body) means a complete eradication of any iota of life (in body, breath, mind, & senses). Often death is welcome, especially for the terminally ill or suffering, & whether or not one experiences a new pain-free joyful existence in the Lord's Presence or not, holds little attraction if there is no more consciousness in death or after it.
If death is the only punishment to the Christ-rejecter, then why do we all have to die? And if I might ask (verses that some don't care to address), why are there so many Scriptures to warn us that physical death is not the end (e.g. Matthew 5:22,29,30; Matthew 10:28; Matthew 23:33; Mark 9:43-48; Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:10,11-15); all these pointing to the reality of an eternal torment? As one who doesn't believe in such an eternity, I ask you (as I've done in the past with others), why are these Scriptures rejected so as to support an emotion-charged belief rather than a biblical Truth? Why do we reject or re-write these passages to suit us, when they're given direct from the Mouth of our Lord?
Those who believe they DIED and were made ONE in Christ, will never die again.
Those who don't believe they DIED, and the resurrection made them ONE as the Father and Son and son are ONE will be cast into prison, the GRAVE. "Made one in Christ" in Jordyn's opinion means you become Gods"
Is this not another Gospel?
More issues.
Jordyn claims the flesh of the unbelievers is the devil and the bottomless pit mentioned in Revelation 20:2-3 is the grave.
He also claims we are already living in the 1000 years mention in verse 5.
He claims the unbelievers/Devil will be loosed out of the grave, "resurrected" in Revelation 20:7.
After all the dead are raised at the second resurrection, "LOOSED OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT" the Sons of God "WILL PREACH THE TRUTH TO THEM ABOUT THE TRUTH OF THE RESURRECTION"
LET'S EXAMINE.
Revelation 20:7-8. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
AND SHALL GO OUT TO DECIEVE THE NATIONS which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
(Jordyn says these verses says the unbelievers will preach the truth!)
The bible says Satan will deceive the nations!
So, Jordyn says God will judge the unbelievers by the word of God and give them the truth and mercy given to us, and they will have DIED the second death, and also become the SONS of God and will enter the Kingdom. Thats what he gets out of Revelation 20:2-8.
However, Look at Revelation 22:11-15. SOME REMAIN UNJUST!
Some have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Some are seen here in verse 15. "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
BEWARE OF WHO YOU FOLLOW! NO CHILD OF GOD WOULD DO SUCH BLASPHEMY TO THE WORD OF GOD!
Here is something I wanted to address earlier but I had to wait until the weekend due to my busy work schedule.
Jordyn said;
"The wages of UNBELIEF is DEATH.
The Gift of BELIEF is IMMORTAL LIFE and Christ ONLY has IMMORTAL LIFE."
and then in a few more lines you said the unbelief and those who believe will receive eternal life.
SO, THEY BOTH RECEIVES THE GIFT IN HIS THEOLOGY.
Well, there is no reward for the righteous.
HE'S CALLING GOD A CORRUPT JUDGE.
Here is more blasphemy in this theology.
Here is a direct quote of what he stated. (Pay close attention to 1a!
Those who believe they DIED and were made ONE in Christ, will never die again.
1a) "Those who don't believe they DIED, and the resurrection made them ONE as the Father and Son and son are ONE will be cast into prison, the GRAVE. Revelation 20:2-3. End quote.
(Shouldn't it be those who didn't receive Christ and had their names written in the Lambs book of life will be cast into prison?)
Jordyn is saying who ever don't believe in his theology is the unsaved! I WILL COME BACK TO THAT.
1b) After God has gather all his SONS to be priest in the Kingdom, he will resurrect the unbelievers back to their flesh and blood bodies, they will be loosed out of their prison ( Revelation 20:7).
After all the dead are raised at the second resurrection the Sons of God will preach the gospel to them about the truth of the resurrection, judge them by the words of God, and give them the truth and mercy given to us, and they will DIED the second death, and also become the SONS of God. End quote.
SO ACCORDING TO HIM ALL HUMANITY WILL EVENTUALLY BE SAVED.
Recap;
From what he has mentioned in the past, according to him the devil is our flesh.
The bottomless pit mentioned in Revelation 20:2-3 is the grave.
The unbelievers/Devil will be loosed out of the grave, "resurrected" in Revelation 20:7.
1 Corinthians 15:26 And the last enemy to be destroyed is death.
Christ's resurrection destroyed death and we were Joint Heirs with Christ at his resurrection, being made ONE FLESH.
Most Christians believe he died for our sin, but they don't believe they became ONE, as the Father and SON are ONE.
The wages of UNBELIEF is DEATH.
The Gift of BELIEF ia IMMORTAL LIFE and Christ ONLY has IMMORTAL LIFE ( 1 Timothy 6:16).
God says he, by Christ's resurrection made a new creation, a family of SONS of God, the exactness of Christ, a priesthood after the order of Melchizedek.
So there is a FIRST DEATH and a SECOND DEATH.
Those who believe they DIED and were made ONE in Christ, will never die again ( Luke 20:36).
Those who don't believe they DIED, and the resurrection made them ONE as the Father and Son and son are ONE will be cast into prison, the GRAVE ( Revelation 20:2-3).
After God has gather all his SONS to be priest in the Kingdom, he will resurrect the unbelievers back to their flesh and blood bodies, they will be loosed out of their prison ( Revelation 20:7).
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of creation WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION of the SONS of GOD.
After all the dead are raised at the second resurrection the Sons of God will preach the gospel to them about the truth of the resurrection, judge them by the words of God, and give them the truth and mercy given to us, and they will DIED the second death, and also become the SONS of God ( Isaiah 59:21).
Hello Bmccaugh58. The answers to your questions are actually found throughout the Bible (from Genesis to Revelation), because the Bible essentially shows us how far mankind has fallen away from his Creator (because of sin), the repercussions we face from living in such a sinful state, & what God has done to offer correction & help, or else, judgement. So, one merely has to read through the Bible (even in your daily devotions/readings) & will see how people, yes all of us, have done wrong towards God & man & what subsequently entails from that. Some will learn & be corrected & then restored - others will persist in their evil ways & face God's Judgement.
So, here are some passages to start you off, but in your reading of the Bible, God's Spirit will alert you to what you seek or even where some action needs to be taken in your own life.
These are just a very few Scriptures, reminding us that there will always be consequences for our actions, not just in our dealings with each other, but more importantly, as we stand before God. But this God of Love always gives sinful wayward man an escape route, from a life of sin to a life of holiness & love - and His Name is Jesus.
But there is atleast 1007 years of unfinished business here on earth that the Bible has a lot to say about that has not been fulfilled.
You see it disclosed chronologically in Revelation.
Revelation 20:1-3.
"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Revelation 20:7-10.
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and MaGog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.....
All this comes before Revelation 21:1-4.
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
In the beginning, i.e. in JESUS - GOD created the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd heavens, and the heaven of the heavens- Genesis 1:1, and the earth(not the planet), but the CLAY, the dry land- Genesis 1:9. Great mystery. By the way, in what heaven you spiritually are acccording to the Ephesians 1:3? Our conversation is in heaven according to the Philippians 3:20, from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, understand? By the way, "By whom He made the worlds".
The 1st world made by GOD through JESUS was/and is the 1st heavenly place established by GOD- The Old Testament.
The 2nd world made by GOD through JESUS was/and is the 2nd heavenly place established by GOD- The New Testament.
And the 3rd world? What does JESUS said of the 3rd world or 3rd heavenly place in Him to be established by Him? JESUS said: Luke 20:35-36KJV:
35 But they which shall be accounted WORTHY to obtain that WORLD(the Kingdom of GOD- Revelation 11:15 to 18), and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of GOD, being the children of the resurrection.
And the heaven of the heavens? The heaven of the heavens will be established after the END of the millennial Kingdom of GOD- Revelation 11:15-18 combined with Revelation 20:7-15.Then the Eternity will begin.
Don't forget:The heavens(The 1st and 2nd heavens) and the earth(Israel),which ARE NOW, by the same Word-the Word is GOD-are kept in store,reserved unto fire against this Day of Judgment(the Judgment Seat of Christ)and perdition of ungodly men -2Peter3:7 & 11-12:
11Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED,what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of this Day of GOD(the Lord's Day),wherein the heavens(the 1st & 2nd heavens) being on fire shall be DISSOLVED,and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
You said that my posts "seem to approach literally while you have another approach to the Bible", actually my posts/messages reflect a spiritual interpretation of the Holy Scriptures, in fact the Holy Spirit is my Preceptor, Tutor as you said, but it seems you do not discern what is spiritual, it's due to lack of the gift of discernment, thus you know only and only what is literal, like the killers of souls, the letter kills, only the Spirit gives life. The believers know that the Word is Spirit, the Word is GOD, self-executing.
Having read the circumlocution of your replyes, or mere verbiage, I would say opinions is good for nothing, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing, understand? John1:1. Your thinking is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective. Your interpretations of the Word of GOD differ not of the interpreter of Genesis 3:1. The one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth, the one who comes from above is above all- John 3:31.
Revelation 20:2-3 explains:
The dragon will be laid hold, and bound/chained, and cast into the bottomless pit, he will be threw into the Abyss (in this current millennium), and he will be shut up, a seal will be set on/over him in this current millennium, seventh and last millennium, that he should deceive the nations no more.
Luke 20:36 And THEY (who are they) CAN DIE NO MORE (they DIED on the cross of Christ):for they are EQUAL unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the CHILDREN of the RESURRECTION.
If you are the children of the RESURRECTION, you had to literally died to be resurrected.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and Holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION ......
Isaiah 26:19 ... together with my dead body shall they arise ......
God spoke the words before you were ever born of woman, that you would be raised as ONE with Christ.
The carnal mind is ENMITY against the words of God.
The Spirit of TRUTH was SENT to destroy the WORKS of Satan, our carnal mind.
Philippians 1:29 For it is GIVEN TO YOU on the behalf of Christ (the Spirit of TRUTH) TO BELIEVE ......
Zech 14:16 Those that are left that (still death and sin 1st 1000yrs) go to Heaven. They remain in Heaven for 1000 years. ( Revelation 20:5), Satan locked away for 1000 years ( Revelation 20: 1-4) After 1000 years the ones on earth will be tested when satan is let loose. So who is alive after 1000 years will be tested. They are descendants from Zech 14:16
Also those that came out of the Great Tribulation ( Revelation 7:14) never hunger nor thirst again. Remain in Heaven with God until it's all said and done.
So Saints before Jesus who died were in a paradise in the earth. Until Jesus took the keys of death, captives set free
John 6:36-40 (Jesus the Only way)
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:43-47 (Again, Jesus is the Only way)
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him (who believes in Him): and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. (Atonement of sins, veil torn, Jesus the only way)
Those who do believed and died, they will rise first. Those who are alive next. Rapture.
Before the Tribulation; there will be people raptured out of the world from every tribe; language; nation and tongue. ( Rev. 7:9).
To be precise many in this verse will come out FROM the Tribulation but those raptured would logically also come from every nation as many more will die after the seal judgments following the Rapture of the church.
Isaiah 66:19 seems to challenge this as those who have not heard His fame or seen His glory seem to be reached by those surviving physically the Tribulation. The Millennial worship is clear from verse 20. It could mean that the Gospel preached by the 3 angels to the whole world won't be specific about God's past exploits or specific plan or focus on Jerusalem for His return; rather they will just hear a general message to worship God and not take the Mark of the Beast or not be part of Babylon.
It is possible some remote areas will somehow even miss the angels testimony; which would also mean they may be one of a few who are able to hide from having the mark forced on them; or from the pressure of following the worldwide false church.
Anyway; God will use Antichrist to draw in all those doomed for perdition and the whole world to choose Christ and bring mass beheadings or choose Antichrist and take the mark and or fight Christ and be destroyed at Armageddon. Again; nations are mentioned in the Millennial Kingdom ( Zech. 14:18 for instance) where Egypt and anyone else will have no rain if they don't come and worship Christ at that time. That shows a necessary interlude BEFORE perfect sinless existance in the new earth since some clearly will attempt to disobey.
Revelation 20:8 states "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea." Clearly there will still be nations until the final conflagration; when there is a new heaven and earth.
"Thank you I will have to investigate this further...
Below is a little of what I found on the subject.
The terms "Book of Life" and "Lamb's Book of Life" are used in Christian theology to refer to a concept found in the Bible. However, it's important to note that there is some variation in how different theologians and denominations interpret and use these terms.
1. **Book of Life:** The "Book of Life" is a term used in several places in the Bible, including the Old and New Testaments. It generally refers to a heavenly record or register in which the names of the righteous, the faithful, or those who belong to God are written. For example, in the Old Testament, Exodus 32:32-33 mentions the Book of Life. In the New Testament, Revelation 20:15 mentions the Book of Life, which is associated with the final judgment. Those whose names are found in the Book of Life are seen as those who will inherit eternal life.
2. **Lamb's Book of Life:** The term "Lamb's Book of Life" specifically appears in the Book of Revelation in the New Testament. It is often associated with the idea that those who belong to Christ, the Lamb of God, have their names written in this book. Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 21:27 are the primary verses where the Lamb's Book of Life is mentioned. Those who have their names in the Lamb's Book of Life are considered to be the redeemed and saved.
In some theological interpretations, these terms are used interchangeably to refer to the same concept, while in others, they are seen as distinct but related concepts. The interpretation of the Book of Life and the Lamb's Book of Life can vary among different Christian denominations and theological traditions.
In summary, both terms refer to the idea of a divine record in which the names of the saved or righteous are written. The specifics of how these books are understood and their significance in salvation can vary depending on theological perspectives."
Ok, so I see I stirred up a "hornet's nest", and that's a good thing! Like acid, deadly by itself yet when it's used in the right mixture it becomes a catalyst, a necessary agent for change.
Universalism! It's TRUTH. I'll do a quick overview to try to explain it. God will one day SAVE all His creatures, even the demons. Why you ask, actually why is easy because He is God and God is GOOD! How, is the more pertinent question. I'll start off by using the same scripture God opened my eyes with, Isaiah 45:23, and confirmed again in Romans 14:11. God has NEVER said a frivolous thing, ever! And if a person came up to us and said,"I have bowed my knee to God and confessed to Christ!" We, as messengers of truth would have to say, "Amen, welcome brother/sister!" The Key is Truthfulness, if this is done in Truth then it is done and has been done since The Cross of Christ. Therefore, we Understand that God said that He will bring it about, thus, if He brings it about then we can be SURE that it was done in TRUTH.
I'll try to answer as many questions as possible, the first was from Bro Dan and an astute point was made, namely, " Most will be to late, as it will be after they are dead, and standing before Jesus on Judgement Day." To this I point to, Psalms 139:7-12 and Romans 8:35-39. Proof that Nothing can stand in the way of God Almighty! I'll reveal another revelation that refutes the doctrine of demons, hell is NOT Eternal! Revelation 20:13-14 confirms this and we can see that those in hell will be Called before The White Throne of Judgment. This is important because we go there to see if our name is in The Lamb's Book of Life, the FACT that people that were in hell are there is Awesome because do you know who won't be there? Revelation 20:10-13. Notice how these are cast into the lake of fire BEFORE we are go to The Great White Throne. Can you see who else will not be there because they are Already judged? Revelation 19:20, them that receive the mark of the beast.
God is a loving God and does not want anyone to perish, but He is also a just God. In Romans 14, I say this in love, we should consider the context. Would not Universalism possibly do what Paul is teaching against? My understanding of Romans 14:11 is this will be at the judgment, every tongue will confess, whether it be good or bad, and the results will be eternal life or damnation, not all will be saved.
My understanding is these verses do not mean there will not be some who will not bow and accept Jesus's authority. Just a couple of verses and if all will be saved how do we understand this?
Matthew 25:40-41 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth- John 3:31. Your earthly and devilish verbiage and chatter is good for nothing, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing, understand? By the way, be sure that your satanic spiritual guide( 2Corinthians 11:12-15) will be cast down into the bottomless pit from now on, day by day, understand?- Revelation 20:3.
Furthermore, the LAST and main partner of your spiritual guide according Genesis 3:1-, he will be elected soon, that is the LAST Beast to be elected- Revelation 13:1- called Vicarivs Filii Dei, a filii of Devil; he will be cast into the lake of fire - Revelation 19:19-20 - burning with brimstone by the Power of the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD-self-executable- , understand? including their followers, those which he deceived(have been deceived) and received (have received) the mark of the Beast, and they worshipp the Beast making a signal of CROSS- CROSS is CURSE - with right HAND completing the satanic sign on FOREHEAD-AS WAS PROPHESIED- Revelation 13:16- combined with Isaiah 44:20.
These will be cast alive into the hell's fire from now on- 2 Peter 3:7 combined withn Revelation 19:19-20, even in this LORD's Day, in this seventh and last Day, that is the seventh and last millennium, the current millennium, THE MILLENNIUM OF CHRIST, according the righteous Judgment of GOD, the Judgment Seat of Christ.
Get ready, for Revelation 21:8 will LITERALLY be fulfilled: "the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
I'm sorry Rainwalker, the belief in a literal Hell & a literal eternal torment for those who have rejected God & His Christ is not an idea from the dark ages nor from the Vatican - this is Scripture & plenty of them to support it. It's how one chooses to read, understand & accept the teachings from the Word that is in question - the Word does not change.
Look at Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:9; Matthew 25:31-46; Mark 9:42-48; 2 Thessalonians 1:5-10; Jude 1:7; Revelation 14:9-11; Revelation 20:10,14,15. These do not speak of an annihilation, but of torment. And what were "their works"? Works of sinful lives, of self-glorification, of being God-haters & Christ-rejecters. If we remove the eternal suffering of Hell, we've lost a great part of our Gospel message, i.e. we not only won't have a Gospel to preach, we won't even need to preach the Gospel. Jude 1:23, "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
If the preacher hasn't got the awful image before him of souls for whom Christ died, going into an eternity of torment, then that preacher is preaching a watered down Gospel, one that tickles the mind but doesn't wrench the heart - a Gospel that only requires a glib acceptance of a lowly Jesus but not weeping in sorrow for sin's wretchedness before an Holy God. Christ didn't give up His Life only to bring sinners into Heaven, but to save them from His Father's Judgement sending them to an eternity of suffering. This is why the cost of Salvation had to be so great - it took the Son of God to come between an Holy God & a hell-deserved, hell-bound sinner. We all have to die one day - but through Christ, not all have to be consigned to Hell.
even tho some disagree on where the spirit of a person goes, it's clear by these verses it lives on.
2 corinthians 5:1-6. for we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved,
we have a building of god, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
notice paul still addresses the spirit as if it still lives even tho the body has dessolved?
for in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
if so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
for we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is god, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the spirit.
therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the lord:
and when we are absent from the body we are going to be present with the lord.
we have been baptized in christ and given an ernest of the spirit.
when we go to be with the lord we will have the full measure of the spirit!
we have been quickened by the spirit of god!
we have eternal life now.
we are part of the first resurrection now!
we're alive.
those who are lost is already dead whilst they live but yet still exist.
the dead is also often mentioned as a category. ( revelation 20:13.)
so when their body dies their spirit/soul will still exist but yet classify with the dead. when they are ressurected, they will be twice dead and thrown into the lake of fire and be tormented.
So, let me get this straight... souls are in hell, idk, Hitler, Stalin.. whatever, ok, some kids that died at age 14, 16.. whatever. So they are suffering?.. then they are lifted out to be judged, so God can say, um.. go back for eternity?.. This idea came out of the dark ages, one of fear and anxiety to help build the vatican.. I grew up catholic, I know these things. Scripture, Jesus, says they will be rewarded according to their works. So, according to their works?.. Hitler has the same punishment as some kid at 17 who took his own life on drugs? No, the enemy wants us to think this, the wicked will be burned up.. eventually, cease to exist. Malachi ch 3, the wicked will be ashes under the soles of your feet. You ever have to put a dog down?.. a horse?.. let me tell you, it's misery, God doesn't delight in the death of the wicked. Death WILL end, not go on for eternity in some torture without end. Will it be eternal?.. yes, no coming back, is the fire unquenchable? yes, the fire of God cannot be extinguished except by the one who prepared it. Revelation 20:13.. and every man was judged according to his works.
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.
I also believe this quote by Peter in 1 Peter 3:19-20 doesn't say Christ went into Hell and preached to the Spirits in prison.
I believe verse 20 tells us WHEN he preached to those in prison.
(Verse 20)
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, WHILE THE ARK WAS A PREPARING, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
I believe the building of the ark, the material used and the ark itself presents a type in the work of Christ and Christ himself.
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
I also believe Ephesians 4:8-9 has to be interpreted separate from 1 Peter.
"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
I believe this passage of scripture is saying Jesus rose victorious from the grave. He paid the price for the sin of the world through His sacrificial death and Resurrection, and broke the power of sin, Satan, death, and hell.
I believe at this point those saved in the Old Testament leaves Abraham's bosom and goes to be with the Lord.
And so do we when we die.
Also, I believe Satan will be bound by a great Angel, not the Lord. That is yet future. Revelation 20:1-2.
The conditions in Revelation 20:3-5 hasn't happened yet.
Recognizing that God is generous to you is acknowledging God and his presensence in you: YOUR HIS BODY. His word says he causes you to do his pleasure; therefore, you are not acting irresponsible with his generosity, but are acting according to his will.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God that WORKETH in you, both TO WILL and TO DO of his good pleasure.
Ezekiel 36:27 And I WILL put my spirit IN YOU and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes and ye shall keep my JUDGEMENTS and DO THEM.
Colossians 1:27 .....THIS MYSTERY ..... CHRIST IN YOU ......
You DIED with Christ on the cross, ONLY Christ arose; and you as a joint heir, with Christ of that resurrection, A NEW CREATION.
Luke 20:36 Neither can they (YOU, Jema) DIE anymore, for they (YOU, Jema) are equal unto the angels, and are the children of God, being the CHILDREN (YOU, Jema) of the RESURRECTION.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he (YOU, Jema) that hath part in the FIRST (you and Christ) RESURRECTION ......
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is BORN of God (TRUTH) CANNOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed (the anointing) remaineth in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God (TRUTH).
The wages of sin is DEATH: you DIED on the cross, the life IN YOU is CHRIST, your the BODY of CHRIST.
BELIEVE, Christ is CAUSING you to do HIS WILL, for his good pleasure, you ARE NOT irresponsible, but walking in the WILL of God.
David0921. I didn't say that Hebrews 11 spoke about Hades. I referred to Abraham (in Hebrews 11); that when he died, that he went to Hades ( Luke 16:19-31).
Here are some Scriptures for you that speak about Hell (Hades, as opposed to Gehenna or Tartarus): Matthew 11:23, Matthew 16:18; Luke 10:15, Luke 16:23; Acts 2:27,31; Revelation 1:18, Revelation 6:8, Revelation 20:13,14. Yes, Hades is a very real place where the dead pre-Cross went, both the righteous & unrighteous. And they had to go there when they died, for the Work of the Cross was not completed & their salvation was not secured. Only the shed Blood of Jesus could save them & us - they had to wait for it & their release from Hades.
The picture of mankind in Romans 3 (of Jew & Gentile) tells us that all are sinners & that circumcision or the Law gave no profit to the Jew. Only the "faith of Jesus Christ" & by His Redemptive Work can a sinner be justified by faith. I see nothing in this chapter about the "Salvation of OT Believers" - only of 'faith vs the law', for instruction to the Church in Rome, and by extension, believers beyond them in space & time.
Revelation 20:11-11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Thank you, brother, After the first resurrection, their judgement and rewards, Revelation 20:4 and after the 1000 years is the day of judgment for the rest of the dead. Daniel 12:2 John 5:28-29 2 Corinthians 5:10 Revelation 20:11-15.
This is our hope, and the promise God has given to us 1 Corinthians 15:51-58, those who are not the chosen and faithful in the first resurrection sleep in death until the day of judgment for all who have lived, Revelation 20:11-15.
God bless,
RLW
It will be awesome but there will be horrible times before He returns. If we are still living, we must be strong in our faith to resist the hour of temptation that is coming. When He returns it will not be some silent secret event, Revelation 1:7 and Matthew 23:39. He will return to the same place from where He ascended, Acts 1:10-11. When He touches His feet back on earth on the Mount of Olives the earth will split with the power and glory that has been given Him by God, Zechariah 14:4.
There will be the chosen and faithful, Revelation 17:14 who have been grafted into the vine in the first resurrection, Revelation 20:5-6 that will be a part of this kingdom and reign for one thousand years.
God bless,
RLW
Thank you for this discussion, it is good to hear salvation is not dependent on this doctrine I have been told in many Churches I have attended I was not saved and was a heretic and shunned.
You know Greek better than I, but my understanding is the word Godhead which was added in the 1500s was translated twice and is misleading. Godhead is in the Bible 3 times, Acts 17:29, Greek word theios which means divine, Romans 1:20, Greek word theiotes which means divinity, divine nature, and Colossians 2:9 Greek word Theotetos which means deity.
The verse Colossians 2:9, in Jesus, dwelleth all the fulness of the deity of God, Jesus was filled without measure with God's Spirit/Holy Spirit John 3:34. John the Baptist said God had told him when Jesus was anointed/baptized John 1:32-33. God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by the Spirit. God gave Jesus power and authority Matthew 11:27. In John 1:14 we probably differ, God in Jesus dwelt/tabernacled among us. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49 John 14:10.
Mark 2:5-8 in Matthew 11:25 Things were hidden from the wise and prudent, Scribes, Sadducees, and Pharisees were the ones accusing Jesus of blasphemy, as we see in Matthew 9:6-8, the same event multitudes glorified God. Jesus was given full authority in Matthew 28:18 and John 17:2-3 that we should know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent, same as all the introductions, greetings, and blessings given to the followers of Christ in the New Testament were from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ and in Revelation 21:22.
All authority has been given to Jesus by the Father until the last enemy, death is put under His feet, 1 Corinthians 15:25-28 Revelation 20:14.
May our discussion inspire study.
God bless,
RLW
There are terms in the Bible such as twice dead and Second death. " Jude 1:12, Revelation 2:11, Revelation 20:14 and Revelation 21:8.
Paul says in Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Which death did he die? The 1st or the 2nd?
An unbeliever is ALREADY dead! Yet he is still continuous.
( 1 Timothy 5:6.) This is a very common NT idiom. The word (noun) for "dead" is "nekros" and is used of physical death (obviously) but also spiritual death to describe an unsaved person who is physically alive but spiritually dead. Here are some examples:
Matt 8:22 - But Jesus told him, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead."
Eph 2:1 - As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
Eph 2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.
Eph 5:14 - This is why it is said: "Wake up, sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.
Col 2:13 - When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins.
Eternal Salvation is life! It is separation from this Body/Tabernacle of death.
In Romans 6:3 we see the sacrificial Lamb at work.
In Romans 6:4-5 we see the NEW BIRTH and the first fruit of the Resurrection. This is the 1st Resurrection.
You are either dead right now or you have life right now!
Those who have life has already died once and has been born again, never to die again.
"Eternal life speaks of "spiritual life and death".
That's the only death a believer has. "He's already been born again"
Those who are dead is already spiritual dead and their bodies will soon die, and they will remain spiritual dead throughout eternity.
The bible doesn't say anything about being unconscious after the body dies. It has lots of scripture describing conscious.
If the grave is Hell, the Bible never says anything about the saved going there.
See Pt 2
I understand in delays in replies many work and have family responsibilities. This subject is being discussed by several people and I just wanted to share a few points of my understanding on it. The questions were not directed towards you, you can reply to them if you want but they were some of the questions I wrote down when I was studying this subject because some Scriptures seem to support both understandings if not deeply studied, not saying you have not.
Scripture tells us God is love, 1 John 4:8,16 and we have been told God does not have pleasure in the death of the wicked, Ezekiel 33:11 caries us to John 3:16 God does not want us to perish. The Bible tells us the soul that sinneth will die, Ezekiel 18:4 God preserves the souls of the saints Psalms 97:10 the faith and belief in Jesus by the grace of God can save our soul Hebrews 10:39.
Scripture tells us of various degrees of punishment like in Luke 12:46-48 Revelation 21:8. In Genesis 2:7 man became a living soul/being, my understanding is the breath of God is the spirit of life which goes back to God when we die whether lost or saved and this body becomes a dead soul that sleeps in the dust until resurrection then the judgment Revelation 20.
To repeat, eternal life is our promise it is something we do not have, only by faith and belief in Jesus Christ by the grace of God we will receive this gift when we are resurrected not before. If we say our souls are immortal, we are saying we already have eternal life, and it is just where are we going to spend it?
My understanding is the lost and wicked punishment is eternal forever, not the punishing, Satan and the fallen angels the beast and false profit will be tormented day and night for ever and ever as we see in Revelation 20:10, but they are not mortal beings like we are, and we see in Matthew 25:41 it was originally prepared for them.
Just my understanding of Scripture thanks again.
God bless,
RLW
This seems pretty clear to me and hard to misunderstand it unless someone tries to twist it.
If someone doesn't believe punishment is eternal then maybe someone should likewise question whether heaven is eternal, because this verse states them both as being everlasting / eternal.
The Bible says the soul will die, the 2nd death, perish, etc. But how do you know that's not the eternal part, or how can you prove that God allows someone to actually suffer without a soul, etc. Basically people are just speculating, and its not going to get very far.
But perhaps we can all agree that hell is bad and heaven is good? Hell is punishment and something to be avoided, and we need Jesus to avoid it. John 3:16 says this.
Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
You can safely say some will be tormented day and night for ever and ever, because that's literally what this verse says.
Mark 9:43-48 - unquenching fire- you can safely say that hell isn't immediately going away, either. It's likely in full operation.
Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Daniel 12:1-2 ever lasting life vs ever lasting contempt
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 everlasting destruction. This might debunk the human reasoning idea that death or being destroyed must only happen in a short timeframe. This says it can happen 'ever lasting' which seems long term or eternal. So, this verse now explains all the other verses where it makes sense.
Revelation 14:11 smoke of their torment for ever and ever. That doesn't sound immediate or short term to me, but forever.
God bless you.
Firstly, on the name 'Gehenna', otherwise called the "Valley of Hinnom", the Encyclopaedia definition is quite correct about the purpose why that area was set aside. It was indeed a place for the burning of refuse & the dead. And yes, it meant that they were all annihilated - no more evidence except dust & ashes. So, it can mean 'annihilation', but Gehenna can also mean 'a place of burning where the fires are never quenched'. And we know that the body is disposed of there, but what about the immaterial parts of man that remains accountable to God? And you also referenced a verse I quoted in Matthew 10:28. Taken on its own, that verse could well support your belief of a complete extermination of body, soul & spirit.
But it was for that very reason that I gave you the other verses to look up & consider. Not only was Matthew 10:28 Jesus' Words, but also Matthew 5:22,29,30; Matthew 23:33; Mark 9:43; Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:10,11-15. You didn't take these into account. And we know, as I trust you are conversant, that when we deal with a topic or a doctrine from the Bible, we need to take in all the references that deal specifically with it. Unfortunately, our natural human instinct is to accept only those that we find palatable or in agreement with, thus distorting the teaching from the Word.
So, if you would care to look at those other verses & see how they affect your understanding of Matthew 10:28, I would be very interested. It's only when we consider all verses on a subject, can we get a fuller picture of it meaning & its implications. However, sometimes there aren't too many verses to help us learn about the subject - in such cases we can't force a teaching by them & just leave the subject open. Yet, not so with these important doctrines of the Deity of Christ & human existence & punishment after death.
(Part 2):
In Luke 16:19-31, we read about the rich man and Lazarus. What I notice is that they both died. It speaks of the rich man being in Hades, and being in torment. What is interesting if you read through that section, the rich man can feel, he can speak, he can see, he can remember, and he is in torment. Notice in Verse 26 that there is a great gulf fixed and no one is able to cross over from one side to the other. There is no hope for those on the opposite side of Abraham's bosom. The question here is, why didn't the rich man cease to exist when he died?
In Mark 9:43-47, even though this is not literally talking about plucking your eye out or cutting off your hand, it does speak of some entering into life, and some being cast into Hell. If the wicked one who has rejected Christ dies and ceases to exist, how can he be cast into Hell?
In Revelation 20:5, it tells us that the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. Obviously, there must have been a previous resurrection because this talks about the rest of the dead not being resurrected until after the 1,000-year reign. How can those who cease to exist be resurrected? How do you raise or resurrect something that does not exist?
John 5:29 says, "And come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." Again, how do you resurrect and judge someone that does not exist?
Again, in Luke 16:28, the rich man says, "For I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment." This rich man is in a place of torment. He did not cease to exist when he died. Why not?
I just have a few more questions if you don't mind, so I will need one more post.
Actually Shabbat Keeper, I wasn't intending to bring up the Rapture debate here, as it has been well discussed over the years. Rather, I was intending to give, maybe a rather flimsy example of a type of Gospel message, telling unbelievers that "when we turn to the Lord for forgiveness of our sins & receiving Christ into our life, then we will not face (physical) death, but just be raptured (caught up, as with Enoch/Elijah), to forever be with him". Here then would be something for the unbeliever to consider, because as sure as day turns into night, we all (believer & unbeliever alike) will face death - whether this thought leaves an 'icky' feeling in us depends on how we view death. So, rapture is not my issue here, but why is death any more of a punishment when we all have to die & knowing that death (of the body) means a complete eradication of any iota of life (in body, breath, mind, & senses). Often death is welcome, especially for the terminally ill or suffering, & whether or not one experiences a new pain-free joyful existence in the Lord's Presence or not, holds little attraction if there is no more consciousness in death or after it.
If death is the only punishment to the Christ-rejecter, then why do we all have to die? And if I might ask (verses that some don't care to address), why are there so many Scriptures to warn us that physical death is not the end (e.g. Matthew 5:22,29,30; Matthew 10:28; Matthew 23:33; Mark 9:43-48; Luke 16:19-31; Revelation 20:10,11-15); all these pointing to the reality of an eternal torment? As one who doesn't believe in such an eternity, I ask you (as I've done in the past with others), why are these Scriptures rejected so as to support an emotion-charged belief rather than a biblical Truth? Why do we reject or re-write these passages to suit us, when they're given direct from the Mouth of our Lord?
Galatians 1:8-9.
Jordyn said;
Those who believe they DIED and were made ONE in Christ, will never die again.
Those who don't believe they DIED, and the resurrection made them ONE as the Father and Son and son are ONE will be cast into prison, the GRAVE. "Made one in Christ" in Jordyn's opinion means you become Gods"
Is this not another Gospel?
More issues.
Jordyn claims the flesh of the unbelievers is the devil and the bottomless pit mentioned in Revelation 20:2-3 is the grave.
He also claims we are already living in the 1000 years mention in verse 5.
He claims the unbelievers/Devil will be loosed out of the grave, "resurrected" in Revelation 20:7.
After all the dead are raised at the second resurrection, "LOOSED OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT" the Sons of God "WILL PREACH THE TRUTH TO THEM ABOUT THE TRUTH OF THE RESURRECTION"
LET'S EXAMINE.
Revelation 20:7-8. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
AND SHALL GO OUT TO DECIEVE THE NATIONS which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
(Jordyn says these verses says the unbelievers will preach the truth!)
The bible says Satan will deceive the nations!
So, Jordyn says God will judge the unbelievers by the word of God and give them the truth and mercy given to us, and they will have DIED the second death, and also become the SONS of God and will enter the Kingdom. Thats what he gets out of Revelation 20:2-8.
However, Look at Revelation 22:11-15. SOME REMAIN UNJUST!
Some have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Some are seen here in verse 15. "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
BEWARE OF WHO YOU FOLLOW! NO CHILD OF GOD WOULD DO SUCH BLASPHEMY TO THE WORD OF GOD!
Revelation 22:19.
God bless.
Part 1
Here is something I wanted to address earlier but I had to wait until the weekend due to my busy work schedule.
Jordyn said;
"The wages of UNBELIEF is DEATH.
The Gift of BELIEF is IMMORTAL LIFE and Christ ONLY has IMMORTAL LIFE."
and then in a few more lines you said the unbelief and those who believe will receive eternal life.
SO, THEY BOTH RECEIVES THE GIFT IN HIS THEOLOGY.
Well, there is no reward for the righteous.
HE'S CALLING GOD A CORRUPT JUDGE.
Here is more blasphemy in this theology.
Here is a direct quote of what he stated. (Pay close attention to 1a!
Those who believe they DIED and were made ONE in Christ, will never die again.
1a) "Those who don't believe they DIED, and the resurrection made them ONE as the Father and Son and son are ONE will be cast into prison, the GRAVE. Revelation 20:2-3. End quote.
(Shouldn't it be those who didn't receive Christ and had their names written in the Lambs book of life will be cast into prison?)
Jordyn is saying who ever don't believe in his theology is the unsaved! I WILL COME BACK TO THAT.
1b) After God has gather all his SONS to be priest in the Kingdom, he will resurrect the unbelievers back to their flesh and blood bodies, they will be loosed out of their prison ( Revelation 20:7).
After all the dead are raised at the second resurrection the Sons of God will preach the gospel to them about the truth of the resurrection, judge them by the words of God, and give them the truth and mercy given to us, and they will DIED the second death, and also become the SONS of God. End quote.
SO ACCORDING TO HIM ALL HUMANITY WILL EVENTUALLY BE SAVED.
Recap;
From what he has mentioned in the past, according to him the devil is our flesh.
The bottomless pit mentioned in Revelation 20:2-3 is the grave.
The unbelievers/Devil will be loosed out of the grave, "resurrected" in Revelation 20:7.
I will deal with this in part 2.
See Part 2.
1 Corinthians 15:26 And the last enemy to be destroyed is death.
Christ's resurrection destroyed death and we were Joint Heirs with Christ at his resurrection, being made ONE FLESH.
Most Christians believe he died for our sin, but they don't believe they became ONE, as the Father and SON are ONE.
The wages of UNBELIEF is DEATH.
The Gift of BELIEF ia IMMORTAL LIFE and Christ ONLY has IMMORTAL LIFE ( 1 Timothy 6:16).
God says he, by Christ's resurrection made a new creation, a family of SONS of God, the exactness of Christ, a priesthood after the order of Melchizedek.
So there is a FIRST DEATH and a SECOND DEATH.
Those who believe they DIED and were made ONE in Christ, will never die again ( Luke 20:36).
Those who don't believe they DIED, and the resurrection made them ONE as the Father and Son and son are ONE will be cast into prison, the GRAVE ( Revelation 20:2-3).
After God has gather all his SONS to be priest in the Kingdom, he will resurrect the unbelievers back to their flesh and blood bodies, they will be loosed out of their prison ( Revelation 20:7).
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of creation WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION of the SONS of GOD.
After all the dead are raised at the second resurrection the Sons of God will preach the gospel to them about the truth of the resurrection, judge them by the words of God, and give them the truth and mercy given to us, and they will DIED the second death, and also become the SONS of God ( Isaiah 59:21).
If you need more scriptures, ask.
God BLESS YOU!
So, here are some passages to start you off, but in your reading of the Bible, God's Spirit will alert you to what you seek or even where some action needs to be taken in your own life.
For "Consequences", see: Genesis 2:15-17; Genesis 3:16-19; Deuteronomy 28:1,2,15; 1 Kings 11:9-11; Job 4:8,9; Isaiah 59:2; Jeremiah 17:9,10; Matthew 27:3-5; Romans 6:23; Romans 13:4; Galatians 6:7,8; 1 Timothy 5:8; James 2:10; Revelation 20:12-15.
For "Correction", see: Proverbs 22:6; Proverbs 29:15; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Galatians 6:1; Ephesians 6:4; 2 Timothy 4:2; Hebrews 12:5-11; Revelation 3:19.
These are just a very few Scriptures, reminding us that there will always be consequences for our actions, not just in our dealings with each other, but more importantly, as we stand before God. But this God of Love always gives sinful wayward man an escape route, from a life of sin to a life of holiness & love - and His Name is Jesus.
Goodmorning.
That is going to be the climax to all things!
But there is atleast 1007 years of unfinished business here on earth that the Bible has a lot to say about that has not been fulfilled.
You see it disclosed chronologically in Revelation.
Revelation 20:1-3.
"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Revelation 20:7-10.
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and MaGog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.....
All this comes before Revelation 21:1-4.
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
A day to look forward to!
Have a blessed day
In the beginning, i.e. in JESUS - GOD created the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd heavens, and the heaven of the heavens- Genesis 1:1, and the earth(not the planet), but the CLAY, the dry land- Genesis 1:9. Great mystery. By the way, in what heaven you spiritually are acccording to the Ephesians 1:3? Our conversation is in heaven according to the Philippians 3:20, from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, understand? By the way, "By whom He made the worlds".
The 1st world made by GOD through JESUS was/and is the 1st heavenly place established by GOD- The Old Testament.
The 2nd world made by GOD through JESUS was/and is the 2nd heavenly place established by GOD- The New Testament.
And the 3rd world? What does JESUS said of the 3rd world or 3rd heavenly place in Him to be established by Him? JESUS said: Luke 20:35-36KJV:
35 But they which shall be accounted WORTHY to obtain that WORLD(the Kingdom of GOD- Revelation 11:15 to 18), and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of GOD, being the children of the resurrection.
And the heaven of the heavens? The heaven of the heavens will be established after the END of the millennial Kingdom of GOD- Revelation 11:15-18 combined with Revelation 20:7-15.Then the Eternity will begin.
Don't forget:The heavens(The 1st and 2nd heavens) and the earth(Israel),which ARE NOW, by the same Word-the Word is GOD-are kept in store,reserved unto fire against this Day of Judgment(the Judgment Seat of Christ)and perdition of ungodly men -2Peter3:7 & 11-12:
11Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED,what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of this Day of GOD(the Lord's Day),wherein the heavens(the 1st & 2nd heavens) being on fire shall be DISSOLVED,and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
You said that my posts "seem to approach literally while you have another approach to the Bible", actually my posts/messages reflect a spiritual interpretation of the Holy Scriptures, in fact the Holy Spirit is my Preceptor, Tutor as you said, but it seems you do not discern what is spiritual, it's due to lack of the gift of discernment, thus you know only and only what is literal, like the killers of souls, the letter kills, only the Spirit gives life. The believers know that the Word is Spirit, the Word is GOD, self-executing.
Having read the circumlocution of your replyes, or mere verbiage, I would say opinions is good for nothing, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing, understand? John1:1. Your thinking is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective. Your interpretations of the Word of GOD differ not of the interpreter of Genesis 3:1. The one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth, the one who comes from above is above all- John 3:31.
Revelation 20:2-3 explains:
The dragon will be laid hold, and bound/chained, and cast into the bottomless pit, he will be threw into the Abyss (in this current millennium), and he will be shut up, a seal will be set on/over him in this current millennium, seventh and last millennium, that he should deceive the nations no more.
Be careful, or then get ready
Luke 20:36 And THEY (who are they) CAN DIE NO MORE (they DIED on the cross of Christ):for they are EQUAL unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the CHILDREN of the RESURRECTION.
If you are the children of the RESURRECTION, you had to literally died to be resurrected.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and Holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION ......
Isaiah 26:19 ... together with my dead body shall they arise ......
God spoke the words before you were ever born of woman, that you would be raised as ONE with Christ.
The carnal mind is ENMITY against the words of God.
The Spirit of TRUTH was SENT to destroy the WORKS of Satan, our carnal mind.
Philippians 1:29 For it is GIVEN TO YOU on the behalf of Christ (the Spirit of TRUTH) TO BELIEVE ......
God Bless YOU!
Also those that came out of the Great Tribulation ( Revelation 7:14) never hunger nor thirst again. Remain in Heaven with God until it's all said and done.
So Saints before Jesus who died were in a paradise in the earth. Until Jesus took the keys of death, captives set free
John 6:36-40 (Jesus the Only way)
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:43-47 (Again, Jesus is the Only way)
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him (who believes in Him): and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. (Atonement of sins, veil torn, Jesus the only way)
Those who do believed and died, they will rise first. Those who are alive next. Rapture.
Before the Tribulation; there will be people raptured out of the world from every tribe; language; nation and tongue. ( Rev. 7:9).
To be precise many in this verse will come out FROM the Tribulation but those raptured would logically also come from every nation as many more will die after the seal judgments following the Rapture of the church.
Isaiah 66:19 seems to challenge this as those who have not heard His fame or seen His glory seem to be reached by those surviving physically the Tribulation. The Millennial worship is clear from verse 20. It could mean that the Gospel preached by the 3 angels to the whole world won't be specific about God's past exploits or specific plan or focus on Jerusalem for His return; rather they will just hear a general message to worship God and not take the Mark of the Beast or not be part of Babylon.
It is possible some remote areas will somehow even miss the angels testimony; which would also mean they may be one of a few who are able to hide from having the mark forced on them; or from the pressure of following the worldwide false church.
Anyway; God will use Antichrist to draw in all those doomed for perdition and the whole world to choose Christ and bring mass beheadings or choose Antichrist and take the mark and or fight Christ and be destroyed at Armageddon. Again; nations are mentioned in the Millennial Kingdom ( Zech. 14:18 for instance) where Egypt and anyone else will have no rain if they don't come and worship Christ at that time. That shows a necessary interlude BEFORE perfect sinless existance in the new earth since some clearly will attempt to disobey.
Revelation 20:8 states "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea." Clearly there will still be nations until the final conflagration; when there is a new heaven and earth.
Below is a little of what I found on the subject.
The terms "Book of Life" and "Lamb's Book of Life" are used in Christian theology to refer to a concept found in the Bible. However, it's important to note that there is some variation in how different theologians and denominations interpret and use these terms.
1. **Book of Life:** The "Book of Life" is a term used in several places in the Bible, including the Old and New Testaments. It generally refers to a heavenly record or register in which the names of the righteous, the faithful, or those who belong to God are written. For example, in the Old Testament, Exodus 32:32-33 mentions the Book of Life. In the New Testament, Revelation 20:15 mentions the Book of Life, which is associated with the final judgment. Those whose names are found in the Book of Life are seen as those who will inherit eternal life.
2. **Lamb's Book of Life:** The term "Lamb's Book of Life" specifically appears in the Book of Revelation in the New Testament. It is often associated with the idea that those who belong to Christ, the Lamb of God, have their names written in this book. Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 21:27 are the primary verses where the Lamb's Book of Life is mentioned. Those who have their names in the Lamb's Book of Life are considered to be the redeemed and saved.
In some theological interpretations, these terms are used interchangeably to refer to the same concept, while in others, they are seen as distinct but related concepts. The interpretation of the Book of Life and the Lamb's Book of Life can vary among different Christian denominations and theological traditions.
In summary, both terms refer to the idea of a divine record in which the names of the saved or righteous are written. The specifics of how these books are understood and their significance in salvation can vary depending on theological perspectives."
Universalism! It's TRUTH. I'll do a quick overview to try to explain it. God will one day SAVE all His creatures, even the demons. Why you ask, actually why is easy because He is God and God is GOOD! How, is the more pertinent question. I'll start off by using the same scripture God opened my eyes with, Isaiah 45:23, and confirmed again in Romans 14:11. God has NEVER said a frivolous thing, ever! And if a person came up to us and said,"I have bowed my knee to God and confessed to Christ!" We, as messengers of truth would have to say, "Amen, welcome brother/sister!" The Key is Truthfulness, if this is done in Truth then it is done and has been done since The Cross of Christ. Therefore, we Understand that God said that He will bring it about, thus, if He brings it about then we can be SURE that it was done in TRUTH.
I'll try to answer as many questions as possible, the first was from Bro Dan and an astute point was made, namely, " Most will be to late, as it will be after they are dead, and standing before Jesus on Judgement Day." To this I point to, Psalms 139:7-12 and Romans 8:35-39. Proof that Nothing can stand in the way of God Almighty! I'll reveal another revelation that refutes the doctrine of demons, hell is NOT Eternal! Revelation 20:13-14 confirms this and we can see that those in hell will be Called before The White Throne of Judgment. This is important because we go there to see if our name is in The Lamb's Book of Life, the FACT that people that were in hell are there is Awesome because do you know who won't be there? Revelation 20:10-13. Notice how these are cast into the lake of fire BEFORE we are go to The Great White Throne. Can you see who else will not be there because they are Already judged? Revelation 19:20, them that receive the mark of the beast.
God is a loving God and does not want anyone to perish, but He is also a just God. In Romans 14, I say this in love, we should consider the context. Would not Universalism possibly do what Paul is teaching against? My understanding of Romans 14:11 is this will be at the judgment, every tongue will confess, whether it be good or bad, and the results will be eternal life or damnation, not all will be saved.
My understanding is these verses do not mean there will not be some who will not bow and accept Jesus's authority. Just a couple of verses and if all will be saved how do we understand this?
Matthew 25:40-41 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
God bless,
RLW
Who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth- John 3:31. Your earthly and devilish verbiage and chatter is good for nothing, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing, understand? By the way, be sure that your satanic spiritual guide( 2Corinthians 11:12-15) will be cast down into the bottomless pit from now on, day by day, understand?- Revelation 20:3.
Furthermore, the LAST and main partner of your spiritual guide according Genesis 3:1-, he will be elected soon, that is the LAST Beast to be elected- Revelation 13:1- called Vicarivs Filii Dei, a filii of Devil; he will be cast into the lake of fire - Revelation 19:19-20 - burning with brimstone by the Power of the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD-self-executable- , understand? including their followers, those which he deceived(have been deceived) and received (have received) the mark of the Beast, and they worshipp the Beast making a signal of CROSS- CROSS is CURSE - with right HAND completing the satanic sign on FOREHEAD-AS WAS PROPHESIED- Revelation 13:16- combined with Isaiah 44:20.
These will be cast alive into the hell's fire from now on- 2 Peter 3:7 combined withn Revelation 19:19-20, even in this LORD's Day, in this seventh and last Day, that is the seventh and last millennium, the current millennium, THE MILLENNIUM OF CHRIST, according the righteous Judgment of GOD, the Judgment Seat of Christ.
Get ready, for Revelation 21:8 will LITERALLY be fulfilled: "the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Get ready
Look at Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:9; Matthew 25:31-46; Mark 9:42-48; 2 Thessalonians 1:5-10; Jude 1:7; Revelation 14:9-11; Revelation 20:10,14,15. These do not speak of an annihilation, but of torment. And what were "their works"? Works of sinful lives, of self-glorification, of being God-haters & Christ-rejecters. If we remove the eternal suffering of Hell, we've lost a great part of our Gospel message, i.e. we not only won't have a Gospel to preach, we won't even need to preach the Gospel. Jude 1:23, "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."
If the preacher hasn't got the awful image before him of souls for whom Christ died, going into an eternity of torment, then that preacher is preaching a watered down Gospel, one that tickles the mind but doesn't wrench the heart - a Gospel that only requires a glib acceptance of a lowly Jesus but not weeping in sorrow for sin's wretchedness before an Holy God. Christ didn't give up His Life only to bring sinners into Heaven, but to save them from His Father's Judgement sending them to an eternity of suffering. This is why the cost of Salvation had to be so great - it took the Son of God to come between an Holy God & a hell-deserved, hell-bound sinner. We all have to die one day - but through Christ, not all have to be consigned to Hell.
we are in a tabernacle/ tent.
we are not the tent!
when the body/tent dies we are absent of it.
and so is unbelievers.
even tho some disagree on where the spirit of a person goes, it's clear by these verses it lives on.
2 corinthians 5:1-6. for we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved,
we have a building of god, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
notice paul still addresses the spirit as if it still lives even tho the body has dessolved?
for in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
if so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
for we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is god, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the spirit.
therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the lord:
and when we are absent from the body we are going to be present with the lord.
we have been baptized in christ and given an ernest of the spirit.
when we go to be with the lord we will have the full measure of the spirit!
we have been quickened by the spirit of god!
we have eternal life now.
we are part of the first resurrection now!
we're alive.
those who are lost is already dead whilst they live but yet still exist.
the dead is also often mentioned as a category. ( revelation 20:13.)
so when their body dies their spirit/soul will still exist but yet classify with the dead. when they are ressurected, they will be twice dead and thrown into the lake of fire and be tormented.
god bless.
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.
I also believe this quote by Peter in 1 Peter 3:19-20 doesn't say Christ went into Hell and preached to the Spirits in prison.
I believe verse 20 tells us WHEN he preached to those in prison.
(Verse 20)
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, WHILE THE ARK WAS A PREPARING, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
I believe the building of the ark, the material used and the ark itself presents a type in the work of Christ and Christ himself.
Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
I also believe Ephesians 4:8-9 has to be interpreted separate from 1 Peter.
"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
I believe this passage of scripture is saying Jesus rose victorious from the grave. He paid the price for the sin of the world through His sacrificial death and Resurrection, and broke the power of sin, Satan, death, and hell.
I believe at this point those saved in the Old Testament leaves Abraham's bosom and goes to be with the Lord.
And so do we when we die.
Also, I believe Satan will be bound by a great Angel, not the Lord. That is yet future. Revelation 20:1-2.
The conditions in Revelation 20:3-5 hasn't happened yet.
Blessings.
Recognizing that God is generous to you is acknowledging God and his presensence in you: YOUR HIS BODY. His word says he causes you to do his pleasure; therefore, you are not acting irresponsible with his generosity, but are acting according to his will.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God that WORKETH in you, both TO WILL and TO DO of his good pleasure.
Ezekiel 36:27 And I WILL put my spirit IN YOU and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes and ye shall keep my JUDGEMENTS and DO THEM.
Colossians 1:27 .....THIS MYSTERY ..... CHRIST IN YOU ......
You DIED with Christ on the cross, ONLY Christ arose; and you as a joint heir, with Christ of that resurrection, A NEW CREATION.
Luke 20:36 Neither can they (YOU, Jema) DIE anymore, for they (YOU, Jema) are equal unto the angels, and are the children of God, being the CHILDREN (YOU, Jema) of the RESURRECTION.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he (YOU, Jema) that hath part in the FIRST (you and Christ) RESURRECTION ......
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is BORN of God (TRUTH) CANNOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed (the anointing) remaineth in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God (TRUTH).
The wages of sin is DEATH: you DIED on the cross, the life IN YOU is CHRIST, your the BODY of CHRIST.
BELIEVE, Christ is CAUSING you to do HIS WILL, for his good pleasure, you ARE NOT irresponsible, but walking in the WILL of God.
God Bless you
Here are some Scriptures for you that speak about Hell (Hades, as opposed to Gehenna or Tartarus): Matthew 11:23, Matthew 16:18; Luke 10:15, Luke 16:23; Acts 2:27,31; Revelation 1:18, Revelation 6:8, Revelation 20:13,14. Yes, Hades is a very real place where the dead pre-Cross went, both the righteous & unrighteous. And they had to go there when they died, for the Work of the Cross was not completed & their salvation was not secured. Only the shed Blood of Jesus could save them & us - they had to wait for it & their release from Hades.
The picture of mankind in Romans 3 (of Jew & Gentile) tells us that all are sinners & that circumcision or the Law gave no profit to the Jew. Only the "faith of Jesus Christ" & by His Redemptive Work can a sinner be justified by faith. I see nothing in this chapter about the "Salvation of OT Believers" - only of 'faith vs the law', for instruction to the Church in Rome, and by extension, believers beyond them in space & time.
The simplicity in Christ Jesus
Gods free gift & get in the book of life!
Romans 3:24-26 & follow Apostle Paul
Period
Revelation 20:11-11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.