We are to be at peace with one another, forgive one another, have mercy on one another.
Just a few references.
1 Thessalonians 4:9
Ephesians 4:32
Galatians 5:26
Galatians 6:2
Matthew 7:12
1 John 4:7
However, we don't lie or deceive one another for the sake of peace. The truth hurts sometimes but it promotes spiritual growth providing that the Christ spirit is in the person.
BELEIVERS SHUNNING OTHER BELEIVERS.
To shun is to deliberately avoid something or someone. In the Bible, the word shun is applied to evil. Job 1:8, Job 28:28, Proverbs 3:7-8Proverbs 14:16. So, shunning evil is good.
There is scripture that promotes excommunication. Matthew 18:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 3:14. but do we do it for harm or Good? What's the intent?
In any case, it would seem that extreme forms of shunning, such as considering someone "dead," utterly ignoring him, or refusing to acknowledge his existence, go beyond what Scripture commands.
After all, Jesus said that, when someone is put out of the church, he should be treated as "a pagan or a tax collector" Matthew 18:17. In other words, treat an intractable offender as an unsaved person.
How are we to treat the unsaved? With love and grace.
The "pagans and tax collectors" need to be evangelized. We are to love even our enemies ( Matthew 5:44).
The goal of excommunication and any form of shunning is restoration ( Galatians 6:1).
The purpose of any type of discipline is to prompt repentance and, ultimately, to reunite our fallen brother or sister with the church body. Being officially ostracized from the church, the sinner might be brought to repentance.
When the man in the Corinthian church later realized that he had sinned against God, he repented and came back to the church for forgiveness and reinstatement. Fellowship with the Corinthian believers was restored ( 2 Corinthians 2:6-11).
Isn't it hateful to ignore or shun other believers?
We are not joined with those outside the body of Christ so, what are we as children of light supposed to do in a lost dark world?
We are to bare light and that light is supposed to shine on Christ.
We are his ambassadors in a foreign land.
We are to display the work of Christ in our lives and the evidence of a new birth bearing fruit. By this all people will know we are his disciples, and the fruit (especially Love for the Brothern) will also Distinguish between a false teaching religion/teachers and spirit filled believers where the spirit gathers and energizes. This is the operation of God by the baptism of the Holy spirit.
SCRIPTURE REFERENCES; John 13:34-35, Matthew 7:16-20. 1 1John 4:20-21, If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
We are to Love the unbeliever, witness to them, and treat them with kindness and help them in a Godly way.
So, in what ways we are not to be unequally yoked with them? Many things can be mentioned but I won't get into that here.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18.
"The command implies that a great difference exists between a believer and an unbeliever. Generally speaking, the motivations, goals, and methods of a Christian are incompatible with those of an unbeliever.
Faith changes the character of a person. A Christian's highest ambition in life is to glorify the Lord Jesus and please Him in all things; an unbeliever is, at best, indifferent to such goals. "
Again, don't get me wrong here, we are called to minister to them in particular.
That is the Lords Commission. Luke 4:18.
It is our Great Commission to spread the Gospel; Matthew 28:16-20.
We do that with truth! We don't do it with lies and deception.
Concluding thoughts for now on the enemy of our souls.
I will attempt to wrap this up for now; although admittedly this is a subject which could easily call for many more postings. God in His infinite yet mysterious plans allowed for a created being to usurp 1/3 of the angels; and to deceive most of mankind throughout history. ( Matthew 7:13-14). Through the offspring mentioned in Genesis 6 he produced numerous giant beings (I can't see it being any other explanation) and therefore only Noah and his family were saved at the flood as it seems all the rest of mankind was corrupted genetically and by default morally beyond repair. (see Genesis 6:9 on Noah being "perfect in his generations"). He also later attempted the same thing on a more limited scale after the flood; resulting in Israel wiping out all the giants (with Goliath being the last one in the surrounding nations Israel had to conquer). Satan continued to attempt to wipe out all of God's people by the ordinance of Haman to wipe out all the Jews which was thwarted in Esther; the Holocaust and will almost succeed in Armageddon when half of Jerusalem is taken before Christ returns. He is the god of this world and Jesus didn't argue with him having control as a "usurper" type leader of all the Kingdoms of the world. Satan also will be given the limited short space of the last half of the Tribulation to more or less control the world but again he will fail to totally destroy the earth because God Himself makes the time short (see Matthew 24:22). Again; God is the one who allows these things; including the "strong delusion" He sends to decieve all those who didn't LOVE the truth but enjoyed unrighteousness ( 2 Thess. 2:11-12 rough translation). Once again at the end of the Millennium he has the final stand; which ends in his judgment cast into hell; and a mass of people as the sand of the sea; amazingly perishing despite seeing Christ on earth and living a utopian existance in the millennium.
Who comes first, Michael or JESUS? It's very important, for in this current time, yes, even now, after around 2000 years or after two GOD's Days- Hebrews 1:1to4- so it is
as the lightning that cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall the coming of the Son of man be. Get ready- Matthew 25:10-, knowing that only lamp- Psalm 119:105-is not suffice to enter in the kingdom of GOD - Matthew 7:21-27 and Malachi 4:11-14.
Michael the archangel is one like unto the Son of man, the difference is that Michael is a warrior, JESUS the Savior, He is the stone which is become the head of the corner. There is no salvation in any other(except in JESUS Christ):for there is none other NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we MUST be saved.
JESUS/JOSHUA warned: ... no man cometh unto the Father, but by me, so Adonai, Jehovah, YHWH, Yahweh, HaShem, Yehovah, Elohim, Yahusha , YEHshia, YEHvah, ten supposed and fictitious names, better, NICKNAMES of GOD, added in the Jewish Bible, and inadvertently copied into the Gentile Bible by the translators, they all are good for nothing.
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. But who comes first that will cause to happen Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. My Lord JESUS made it very clear, saying: Except those days (this current time) should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
A false messiah is at door, he will manifest himself soon- Revelation 13:11-14 combined with John 5:43-47-AN IMPOSTOR- , he was born decadas ago, understand? It is he the God of the Jews- 2Thessalonians 2:3-4.
My Lord JESUS warned: If any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; BELEIVE IT NOT.
There was a time when we could give many examples of those who were steadfast in the faith; particularly Pastors throughout their career and after passing onto glory no doubt had great reward to look forward to. This was partly because correct doctrines were still more or less practiced and preached in these denominations who had a long history of such to show forth. This was also due to the culture and society that supported basic moral virtues. We shouldn't be so naive as to suppose there weren't rebels and those who found ways to utilize this mindset for their own personal interests for success in this life. In contrast however today we have seen many fall away; whether completely apostatizing; or being found in immorality. It seems the sad downfall of Ravi Zacharias began an acceleration of others away from truth. I won't bother naming names here.
The sad truth is that someone can go through much of their ministry and lives doing right; and turn away in their last months on earth. This of course is true among the laypersons as well as we see the shocking decline in church attendance; openness to the sexual deviancy and leftist propaganda today; and yes that of the right as well. Again no need to name names here.
So we can't put confidence in men. Indeed we are reminded of Ezekiel 9:6 where God authorized wholesale slaughter of men; women and children.
This leads to a lot of sobering thoughts on where we are headed. There are many who think they can side with wickedness and that it helps them be left alone or approved by the world. It is forgotten quickly the adage in Matthew 7:6 on "casting our pearls before swine". You can be sure if and when there is an invasion or full persecution here or anywhere the lukewarm will be the first to suffer loss.
The few that are sold out for Christ know it and God knows them. Let us press on for the prize ( Philippians 3:14); alone if necessary.
I am sorry, we have just finished a discussion on the Trinity, and you say your post is not directed at me and you consider me as a friend, and we can have discussions on another subject. This is what you posted "If Jesus is not God, then there is no Christianity and those who worship Jesus are nothing but idolaters. But if He is God, then those who deny He is God are blasphemers in the worst sense of the word, because they believe in another Jesus".
How else can I take this, but you are telling me I am an idolater and a blasphemer of the worst sense of the word? I cannot even fathom saying that to a friend. How can you say I am a friend and say what you said, you said I am an idolater and a blasphemer. Why would you want to discuss anything with me if that is what you think I am?
Matthew 7:1Luke 6:37 The truth will out, only if we are open to receiving it, my prayers are for you and your family this is my last reply to you.
It is hard not to feel an impetus to prod on this subject. I am well aware that I don't have a spiritual gift of service and helps.
There are always needs and we can't live our lives in a vacuum; and that goes for church as well as in the rest of our lives. Perhaps it is doing what is needed rather than endless activities that also matters. I don't personally find it comfortable having a "Game night" at church nor have I been a social "butterfly" in general but these events when accompanied with prayer (and not with sinful activities that so often come about) these events can be edifying. As I stated previously discussions on world events often deviate toward speculation; there are times when scriptures can be discussed; and can be edifying when these discussions go into detail of Bible truths.
Evangelism
I probably said sometime in the last few years of posts that prayer is also good accompanying evangelism for anyone genuinely seeking it. I am not into the "sinner's prayer" in initial conversations; once we get to know people and see a genuine conviction that is the time to seek if they are ready to commit their lives to the Lord. We are partially responsible for someone's fate (blood on our hands) if we don't warn people of taking a vow to God flippantly. We should warn that the more we know the more we are responsible for. We should give many warnings as Christ did about it being the "narrow" path not the broad road leading to destruction ( Matthew 7:13-14). We should also give caution on the trials; thorns and temptations that God uses to test us to see if we are true believers ( Matt. 13:22). Such exhortations may filter out some; but I am convinced will in the end have a greater percentage of committed believers who endure to the end. The song by David Meese "You've gotta count the cost if you want to be a believer" isn't exactly the lingo in today's Christian music "industry" and that is to it's shame.
Yesterday I came across a YouTube video of Joyce Meyer who appears to be a Christian female pastor.
Most all Christians I see on TV come across as false teachers and this is troubling. Nearly all seem to be obsessed with money and power and are crafty and deceptive in their words. The following verse comes to mind:
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Matthew 7:15 KJV
What I don't understand is how they come to this prominent position in the first place. Does God let them attain this and why?
Did they start out with good intentions then become corrupted, or have they always been wolves in sheep's clothing?
And I will put my spirit within you, "AND CAUSE" you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Ezekiel 36:27.
The apostle Paul says that "for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus" ( Ephesians 2:10). The word "workmanship" means "that which is made, a work of art." It refers to a "masterpiece." What Paul's saying is that all God's children are His masterpieces.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Dead Works.
In the Bible the phrase "dead works" is found in the book of Hebrews.
Hebrews 6:1-3.
"Repentance from dead works".
Repentance means to change the way we think. We need to change the way we think about dead works.
From the outside looking in we can't tell the difference between dead works and good works. They can look very much the same outwardly. They can be the same works, but they have different motives.
Praying can be a dead or good work.
Attending church can be a dead or good work.
Reading the Bible can be a dead or good work.
Telling others about Jesus can be a dead or good work.
That's why Jesus said what he said in Matthew 7:22-23.
Prophesying, casting out demons, performing miracles in the name of Jesus are all outwardly good things. But Jesus will reject "many" who do those things. Why? Because their hearts are wrong. These people have the wrong motivations for the things they do.
Dead works are any attempt to find favor, earn acceptance or be made righteous before God by one's own effort, ability or willpower.
Religion puts the emphasis on doing right. In contrast, Jesus and the apostles put the emphasis on believing right, because when we believe right we will naturally do right as a consequence.
If we can't tell outwardly, then how do we know what a good work is?
Hi Christianlady7: Welcome to this discussion. God wrote the 10 commandments Himself and then gave Moses the laws, statues and ordinances to build on this foundation of His commandments. While they were originally given to the Jews, obviously, all the laws GOD gave are meant for mankind for always. Jesus said He came to fulfil the law not destroy it. Matthew 5:17 -18 (17)"Think not that I am come to destroy the law and the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (He didn't add "except the 4th, that one I've changed to the 1st day of the week." Please excuse my sarcasm. The NT has many scriptures that tell us, although we are not saved by the law, it is there to point to sin so we know why we need a Savior.
I especially agree with your comment of, how when we change the things of God they diminish in value. Changing the day of rest, the seventh day of the week, to Sunday has, as I know you are aware, become NO day of rest for the believer or anyone else. This hurts our witness. We cannot pick and choose the commandments to suit ourselves. The early church honored the Sabbath until about 35AD to 100AD. After that time many "ravening wolves" ( Matthew 7:15) had begun to enter in and by 345AD Emperor Constantine held the Laodicean Council and changed the day of rest to the first day of the week to stop persecution of Jews and Christians for worshipping on the Sabbath. There were many people already practicing rest and worship on the first day so He made it a law to stop the persecution. This is a simple account of the history. If you search Laodicean Council you can learn a lot more about it. Just be careful to backup what you read or hear by scripture. Again, welcome and I hope you will join in with this discussion as it goes along. God Bless :)
1 Corinthians 16:2 "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, t
Romans 14:5 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."(Question? Does your church only meet on Sunday to fellowship and hear preaching and teaching? Is Sunday the only day of the week you might hear preaching from the minister? This verse just tells of believers gathering on Sunday to fellowship and listen to Paul preach because he had to leave the next day. It doesn't interpret as abolishing their regular worshiping on the Sabbath.)
Collisians 2:14 & 16 "Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES (my caps) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross; Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or the new moon or of the sabbath days." (This judgment is speaking of situations on the sabbath as when David fed his men shewbread that was only to be eaten by the Jewish Priests on the Sabbath. 1 Samuel 21:1-6, Christ feeding His disciples from the cornfield on a Sabbath. Matthew 1:21 and pulling an ox out of a ditch on the Sabbath. Luke 14:5; if there are things that needed to be done out of necessity on the Sabbath, you should not let men judge you for doing that.)
I don't know how any of the verses I noted can be interpreted as showing that the early church willingly changed it's weekly worship and fellowship from the sabbath to the first day of the week. As I presented, there is historical proof that they didn't. As the "ravening wolves in sheep clothing" ( Matthew 7:15) began to creep into the church, a change was eventually made to abolish the sabbath and worship and refrain form labor on Sunday. Constantine and the Catholic Church mainly changed it and the world followed.
So let's begin with Jesus. Matthew 7:15: "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." And the word beware means all of us should be alert, but especially shepherds, to identify not just false teaching, but false teachers, whose ways are subtle. They're clothing themselves with lamb's wool while they're wolves.
And Paul used the same Greek word for beware in Acts 20:28-29 when he said, "Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. . . . I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock."
"IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE FLOCK, WE SHOULD EXPOSE FALSE TEACHERS AND MINIMIZE THE SPREAD OF THE GANGRENE."
Jesus used the same word again in Matthew 16:6, but he got more specific: "Watch and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Paul had the same kind of group in mind and the same kind of error in mind in Philippians 3:2 and 3:18: "Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh." And then verse 18:
"For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ." Then in Romans 16:17, he warned, "Watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them."
We use Brothern to loosely today. Everyone amongst us is not a Brother or a Sister!
Look at the example Jesus gives in Matthew 12:47-50.
"Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren.
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Romans 12:3 says not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
We all have flaws and we're all of one body ministering by the same Spirit, having gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us by "THE GIFT" (Christ Spirit.) We are to exercise those gifts by the power of Christ Spirit.
We are to Love one another; I've declared that on this site since I've been on it using John 13:34-35 as a springboard.
Also, 1 John 4:20-21 and Matthew 7:15-16.
We shall be known by our fruit, not our gifts!
CAN YOU GENERATE THIS ON YOUR OWN?
Love amongst the brothern is not partial.
It's not determined by race, wealth, political parties, Gender, status in the church, or one's eschatology.
Love at its highest level is Agape. It's caused by the Holyspirit that knits us as one. It's to be totally given over to.
I've seen where one says he have the gift of discernment but yet he shuns other Brothern.
If you have an issue with a brother, you restore him. Galatians 6:1-4.
We must look out for each other. James 5:20 says, "Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins." Confrontation may be difficult, but it is not loving to allow a professing Christian to continue in a sin that will bring God's consequences upon him.
"Hello brother Spencer, Good evening! Thinking of doctrine, the Church practice of
giving and taking reproof by love maybe is part of what you are thinking? Church discipline and restoration?
God bless the walk.
Brother Carleton, That I absolutely agree with! However, that is not in the context of this message.
This message is more in line with Jude 1:3-4 with the focus on what is mentioned in verse 4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares,"
This has the thought of some has come into the fold sort of like through a back door.
Jude 1:10-15. He describes them. They are not Brothern. They are not Sheep.
As for "A Holy kiss.
Does the bible say greet "them" with a Holy kiss? No, I don't think so.
Romans 10:8-10 says the words is ni thy mouth.
These words is what we can confess to others if asked by what means are you saved.
However, what about the guy whom from his heart "by his mouth" speaks against truth?
We don't judge his present spiritual condition; he's done it ALREADY by refusing to believe and enter in the straight and narrow gate. See Matthew 7:13-15. and John 3:18.
What do these verses concerning a Holy kiss have in common? This Holy kiss is for the Brothern.
1 Corinthians 16:20.
2 Corinthians 13:11-12.
1 Thessalonians 5:26.
Romans 16:16.
The Holy kiss wasn't only meant to express love for the Brothern.
The Holy kiss is meant to express acceptance especially at a time when Gentiles was coming into the fold.
It certainly wasn't for non-believers.
Look at 2 John1:10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.
Also see Romans 16:17-18.
Does open rebuke harm a brother?
Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. Proverbs 27:5-6.
Matthew 7:14 ... FEW there be that find it ..... in our time.....
Hosea 4:14 I WILL NOT PUNISH your daughters when they commit WHOREDOM, nor you spouses when the commit ADULTERY: for themselves are SEPARATED with whores, and they sacrifice with harlots, therefore the people that doeth not understand SHALL FALL.
Proverbs 16:6 .... by TRUTH and MERCY iniquity (sin) is purged ....
What is this SIN (in God's eyes) that can be purged by TRUTH and MERCY ......that keeps the many from the Kingdom of God?
Matthew 7:14 ... FEW there be that find it ..... in our time.....
Hosea 4:14 I WILL NOT PUNISH your daughters when they commit WHOREDOM, nor you spouses when the commit ADULTERY: for themselves are SEPARATED with whores, and they sacrifice with harlots, therefore the people that doeth not understand SHALL FALL.
Proverbs 16:6 .... by TRUTH and MERCY iniquity (sin) is purged ....
What is this SIN (in God's eyes) that can be purged by TRUTH and MERCY ......that keeps the many from the Kingdom of God?
Good to hear from you. Thank you or reminding us again to pray for you and Shelley. I will certainly do so. God is good, and even though the answers we hope for have not yet materialized for us, He will always do what is best for us. We believers are His adopted children, the greatest privilege in all of history! He promised in His word that he, our Heavenly Father will give good gifts to those who ask.
Matthew 7:11
So, John continue to ask. He is faithful. You will see that He is when all is said and done, In the meantime we live by faith in Him believing that he is good and a rewarder of those who seek Him with all their hearts.
it is always good to hear from you. I know from your past posts that you have endured many difficulties that many of us have not. I will remember your son in my prayers as well. May the Lord restore good relationships between you and your son and Shelley.
I am a lot like you in many ways. I rid myself of all technology. No phone, vehicle etc. I wanted to go back to roots if you understand what I mean. I only kept my PC so I can try to study the bible and have only recently setup a facebook account a couple of months back so that I can try to "fellowship" with as many different Christians as that is where everyone seems to be and I did not want to ( 1 Corinthians 3:18) "deceive myself". But I am a very cautious and self-aware individual and so I am wary of ( Matthew 7:15) wolves in sheep's clothing while at the same time I don't want to become a fulfillement of the prophecy ( 2 Timothy 4:3) which I feel is actually coming to pass. I want to find that biblical sound doctrine So I know what path I need to walk.
I thank you for your time, patience and guidance and May our Lord God the Father bless you. Peace and love to you in Jesus name.
Matthew 7:6, "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."
What does it say here about "dogs"? That they will turn against you and tear you. That is what those people do. Tear other people.
Also dogs were considered unclean animals in the Old Testament. So those people are unclean and aggressive. We all know what people like that are like. Once you meet them and realize what they are like, you keep a distance from them, you don't want to be biten, do you?
1) You asked,if a man can choose, can he later as a Christian choose to forsake Christ thereby abandoning his salvation and losing the gift of eternal life? Or is it all predestined? If so, why would there be a judgment?
2) You said Isn't it to believe in him whom he sent?) That is true. To some that is easy, all they must do is believe, they have their ticket. Someone then asks them do they believe in God and what Jesus did, all they must do is say yes, I believe. Is it just to believe that is contradictory, is this a half-truth, like you will not surely die? Gen. 3:4-5. Ronald the scripture saysThat if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE IN THY HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Believing in thy heart is a true profession. it would be like the example given in Matthew 7:21-23.
3) Ronald, you asked; If we say when someone walks away or falls back into sin they were never saved to begin with. If we do is that judging? Is there any way for us to know what is in the heart of another man or woman? and if we say they were never saved is that just to support a doctrine?
I would say no the scripture declares them unsaved. Matthew 7:23.
I would also ask you. if you say someone fell back into sin as you said they would lose their salvation. Isn't that judging and is that just to support a doctrine also?
4) Response to part 3.
You said, Concerning Pentecost, Peter was pleading that they accept Jesus as their Messiah that was promised, and they killed Him, not to repent from Judaism. (accepting Jesus Christ is turning from Judaism!) And act 15 they were opposing Judaism. Acts 15:5-11. ' You noticed verse 11? "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.Peter is saying the Jews shall be saved even as the gentiles!
Women always like to bring up the exceptions. In those examples that you brought up the man isn't even a real Christian, because a true Christian who has been redeemed by the Holy Spirit would not do such. When we abide in the Christian doctrine, we give proof of the reality of our faith. Ye will know them by their fruit Matthew 7:15-20
What I find shocking is that you don't realize that.
I'm also always amazed by the amount of pushback this topic gets from both men and women in Christendom...
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves" 2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
I had decided not to participate any more in debates, especially about the OSAS doctrine, but I think I can not avoid it. I have seen that there are certain theological "inventions" of those who accept the OSAS belief. Firstly the one already known, that is the idea of "not truly saved" and now as I read your post, the idea of "accepting Christ but not knowing Him", am I wrong?
OK lets start from the begining. When is one saved? When he accepts Christ or when he gets to know Him? Definitely when he accepts Jesus. What does that mean? It means that as one hears the Word of God and that Word gets inside his heart (this is the seed that eventually goes inside the good soil) that Word causes him to repent and follow a new path in His life. Next, God regenerates him enabling him to follow that path. Can we agree on that? What does it mean that we know Christ? This is a process that takes a long time in our lives. It doesn't occur only when we read about Jesus and His teachings in the Bible but it mainly occurs as we follow Him in our lives and we get experience with Him along that path. This does not occur overnight, it is a lenthy process. So we can not claim that we are saved when we get to know Christ. In such a case it would take years to aquire salvation.
Let go to Matthew 7:21-23
" 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Lets gather all the points of interest in that teaching.
1. It occurs at the Final Judgement
2. Jesus talks to people who know Him or about Him, they call Him Lord.
OSAS: Another character in the "hall of fame" of saints from Hebrews 11.
Sampson. Hebrews 11:32 mentions Sampson in passing but doesn't elaborate on the subject.
Judges 13 gets into the beginning of the story of Manoah and his wife who had an angelic visitation from God announcing the birth of Sampson and the prophesied deliverance from the Philistines that his life would enable. Interestingly the angel appeared both times to the woman and it seemed this unnamed wife had more sense than her husband who was convinced they would die after such a visitation. Perhaps Sampson's upbringing in such a household led to some of his irrational behaviors as he grew up.
Judges 16 shows where Sampson ended up with Delilah; who ultimately sapped his strength to the point where he was blinded and no longer able to resist his enemies who were using her against him. He had lost his wife according to Judges 14:3 after they killed her following his vengeance in killing 30 Philistines. This tragedy could have been avoided if he had married within his people. He would continue to follow his affections; yet somehow God saw that he had genuine faith. This is perhaps best illustrated when he deliberately gave up his life in knocking down the pillars of Dagon's temple in Judges 16:29; and kills more Philistines than he did his entire life previously.
How we end life clearly is important; if the rest of our life is screwed up but we end it well then we can enter into heaven; the other extreme exists for those who turn away at the last minute; sadly a friend of mine said that was the case with his mother after being in a home where believers surrounded her the last few months of her life she turned away from the faith.
The examples in the last few posts show how God knows the heart; we can never be sure someone can't turn at the last minute but certainly shouldn't count on it. Matthew 7:20 shows us how in time we can see those who are truly saved by GOOD FRUIT.
Your use of Matthew 7:14 is misinterpreted because TRUE, few will find The Way but what does finding the way have to do with Election? For Election is NOT about works (finding The Way), but Election is ALL about God Choosing! Look at Rom. Ch.11, the whole chapter. It's all about God "cutting off" His Chosen for the sake of those NOT chosen. There are two types of elect; there are those Chosen before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1:4. And those chosen, only because His Chosen were "cut off"! Romans 11:11-12. The Jews (Hebrew) for the Gentile, the vessels of wrath for the vessels of mercy, Romans 9:21-23 and Christ for the world, Matthew 27:46. This is a Pattern, a plummet line, a way for us to "measure" the things of God.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Let us compare this scripture with these verses
John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"
Matthew 7:21-23 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Salvation isn't just us "accepting Christ" but us KNOWING Him and of course means He must "know" us. This word means the most intimate relationship and is used to describe relations between husband and wife in scripture. Hearing Christ therefore is only a first step on our part; the Pharisees were blind even though they saw (end of Matthew 23). Those who Christ know were those given to Him by the Father ( John 6:39). Predestination is a repeated theme in John indicating those who God gave the Christ to save. Salvation means goodfruit
Myself and several others on this site have debated this topic often and when debating you we've made it very clear that if a person is continuing in habitual sin, he is not likely a saved person.
Adam, God chastise those that are his. He don't let his children get away with sin.
Where you say a Christian can lose his salvation, We've said Everyone Professing Christianity is not saved, siting Matthew 7:21-23 and highlighting verse 23 "And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".
Jesus said he knows his sheep.
He also said I will never leave or forsake us.
John 10:27.
Hebrews 13:5.
I've also referred people to this portion of scripture concerning this debated topic.
Romans 5:20 through Romans 6:4.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Thank you. Galatian 1:6-9 is certainly a supporting amplification of John 1:10. There were many then who were teaching falsely. Needless to say it was rampant then. All who today who accurate read the same word we still have in the N. T. will agree we are deluged with likely even more false teaching today. The only answer the Bible seems to give us on this is only a few really do understand it correctly and will be included those who are resurrected and Born again at his coming.
Chris
Thank you. Galatian 1:6-9 is supporting & amplification of John 1:10.
There were many then teaching falsely. It was common if not rampant then. All who accurately read the N. T. today will agree it is likely even more false teaching today. The only answer the Bible seems to give us; only a few correctly understand and live the way Jesus was teaching.
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
There will still be relative few who will be resurrected when Christ returns. At that point only the few will receive eternal life, be Born again, and made a Spirit Being.
I Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I Thessalonians 4:16-18
16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Part 3.
How should Christian treat one another?
We are to be at peace with one another, forgive one another, have mercy on one another.
Just a few references.
1 Thessalonians 4:9
Ephesians 4:32
Galatians 5:26
Galatians 6:2
Matthew 7:12
1 John 4:7
However, we don't lie or deceive one another for the sake of peace. The truth hurts sometimes but it promotes spiritual growth providing that the Christ spirit is in the person.
BELEIVERS SHUNNING OTHER BELEIVERS.
To shun is to deliberately avoid something or someone. In the Bible, the word shun is applied to evil. Job 1:8, Job 28:28, Proverbs 3:7-8 Proverbs 14:16. So, shunning evil is good.
There is scripture that promotes excommunication. Matthew 18:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 3:14. but do we do it for harm or Good? What's the intent?
In any case, it would seem that extreme forms of shunning, such as considering someone "dead," utterly ignoring him, or refusing to acknowledge his existence, go beyond what Scripture commands.
After all, Jesus said that, when someone is put out of the church, he should be treated as "a pagan or a tax collector" Matthew 18:17. In other words, treat an intractable offender as an unsaved person.
How are we to treat the unsaved? With love and grace.
The "pagans and tax collectors" need to be evangelized. We are to love even our enemies ( Matthew 5:44).
The goal of excommunication and any form of shunning is restoration ( Galatians 6:1).
The purpose of any type of discipline is to prompt repentance and, ultimately, to reunite our fallen brother or sister with the church body. Being officially ostracized from the church, the sinner might be brought to repentance.
When the man in the Corinthian church later realized that he had sinned against God, he repented and came back to the church for forgiveness and reinstatement. Fellowship with the Corinthian believers was restored ( 2 Corinthians 2:6-11).
Isn't it hateful to ignore or shun other believers?
See part 4.
Part 2.
We are not joined with those outside the body of Christ so, what are we as children of light supposed to do in a lost dark world?
We are to bare light and that light is supposed to shine on Christ.
We are his ambassadors in a foreign land.
We are to display the work of Christ in our lives and the evidence of a new birth bearing fruit. By this all people will know we are his disciples, and the fruit (especially Love for the Brothern) will also Distinguish between a false teaching religion/teachers and spirit filled believers where the spirit gathers and energizes. This is the operation of God by the baptism of the Holy spirit.
SCRIPTURE REFERENCES; John 13:34-35, Matthew 7:16-20. 1 1John 4:20-21, If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
We are to Love the unbeliever, witness to them, and treat them with kindness and help them in a Godly way.
So, in what ways we are not to be unequally yoked with them? Many things can be mentioned but I won't get into that here.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18.
"The command implies that a great difference exists between a believer and an unbeliever. Generally speaking, the motivations, goals, and methods of a Christian are incompatible with those of an unbeliever.
Faith changes the character of a person. A Christian's highest ambition in life is to glorify the Lord Jesus and please Him in all things; an unbeliever is, at best, indifferent to such goals. "
Again, don't get me wrong here, we are called to minister to them in particular.
That is the Lords Commission. Luke 4:18.
It is our Great Commission to spread the Gospel; Matthew 28:16-20.
We do that with truth! We don't do it with lies and deception.
How should Christian treat one another?
See part 3.
I will attempt to wrap this up for now; although admittedly this is a subject which could easily call for many more postings. God in His infinite yet mysterious plans allowed for a created being to usurp 1/3 of the angels; and to deceive most of mankind throughout history. ( Matthew 7:13-14). Through the offspring mentioned in Genesis 6 he produced numerous giant beings (I can't see it being any other explanation) and therefore only Noah and his family were saved at the flood as it seems all the rest of mankind was corrupted genetically and by default morally beyond repair. (see Genesis 6:9 on Noah being "perfect in his generations"). He also later attempted the same thing on a more limited scale after the flood; resulting in Israel wiping out all the giants (with Goliath being the last one in the surrounding nations Israel had to conquer). Satan continued to attempt to wipe out all of God's people by the ordinance of Haman to wipe out all the Jews which was thwarted in Esther; the Holocaust and will almost succeed in Armageddon when half of Jerusalem is taken before Christ returns. He is the god of this world and Jesus didn't argue with him having control as a "usurper" type leader of all the Kingdoms of the world. Satan also will be given the limited short space of the last half of the Tribulation to more or less control the world but again he will fail to totally destroy the earth because God Himself makes the time short (see Matthew 24:22). Again; God is the one who allows these things; including the "strong delusion" He sends to decieve all those who didn't LOVE the truth but enjoyed unrighteousness ( 2 Thess. 2:11-12 rough translation). Once again at the end of the Millennium he has the final stand; which ends in his judgment cast into hell; and a mass of people as the sand of the sea; amazingly perishing despite seeing Christ on earth and living a utopian existance in the millennium.
as the lightning that cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall the coming of the Son of man be. Get ready- Matthew 25:10-, knowing that only lamp- Psalm 119:105-is not suffice to enter in the kingdom of GOD - Matthew 7:21-27 and Malachi 4:11-14.
Michael the archangel is one like unto the Son of man, the difference is that Michael is a warrior, JESUS the Savior, He is the stone which is become the head of the corner. There is no salvation in any other(except in JESUS Christ):for there is none other NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we MUST be saved.
JESUS/JOSHUA warned: ... no man cometh unto the Father, but by me, so Adonai, Jehovah, YHWH, Yahweh, HaShem, Yehovah, Elohim, Yahusha , YEHshia, YEHvah, ten supposed and fictitious names, better, NICKNAMES of GOD, added in the Jewish Bible, and inadvertently copied into the Gentile Bible by the translators, they all are good for nothing.
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. But who comes first that will cause to happen Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. My Lord JESUS made it very clear, saying: Except those days (this current time) should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
A false messiah is at door, he will manifest himself soon- Revelation 13:11-14 combined with John 5:43-47-AN IMPOSTOR- , he was born decadas ago, understand? It is he the God of the Jews- 2Thessalonians 2:3-4.
My Lord JESUS warned: If any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; BELEIVE IT NOT.
Be careful and get ready
There was a time when we could give many examples of those who were steadfast in the faith; particularly Pastors throughout their career and after passing onto glory no doubt had great reward to look forward to. This was partly because correct doctrines were still more or less practiced and preached in these denominations who had a long history of such to show forth. This was also due to the culture and society that supported basic moral virtues. We shouldn't be so naive as to suppose there weren't rebels and those who found ways to utilize this mindset for their own personal interests for success in this life. In contrast however today we have seen many fall away; whether completely apostatizing; or being found in immorality. It seems the sad downfall of Ravi Zacharias began an acceleration of others away from truth. I won't bother naming names here.
The sad truth is that someone can go through much of their ministry and lives doing right; and turn away in their last months on earth. This of course is true among the laypersons as well as we see the shocking decline in church attendance; openness to the sexual deviancy and leftist propaganda today; and yes that of the right as well. Again no need to name names here.
So we can't put confidence in men. Indeed we are reminded of Ezekiel 9:6 where God authorized wholesale slaughter of men; women and children.
This leads to a lot of sobering thoughts on where we are headed. There are many who think they can side with wickedness and that it helps them be left alone or approved by the world. It is forgotten quickly the adage in Matthew 7:6 on "casting our pearls before swine". You can be sure if and when there is an invasion or full persecution here or anywhere the lukewarm will be the first to suffer loss.
The few that are sold out for Christ know it and God knows them. Let us press on for the prize ( Philippians 3:14); alone if necessary.
I am sorry, we have just finished a discussion on the Trinity, and you say your post is not directed at me and you consider me as a friend, and we can have discussions on another subject. This is what you posted "If Jesus is not God, then there is no Christianity and those who worship Jesus are nothing but idolaters. But if He is God, then those who deny He is God are blasphemers in the worst sense of the word, because they believe in another Jesus".
How else can I take this, but you are telling me I am an idolater and a blasphemer of the worst sense of the word? I cannot even fathom saying that to a friend. How can you say I am a friend and say what you said, you said I am an idolater and a blasphemer. Why would you want to discuss anything with me if that is what you think I am?
Matthew 7:1 Luke 6:37 The truth will out, only if we are open to receiving it, my prayers are for you and your family this is my last reply to you.
God bless,
RLW
It is hard not to feel an impetus to prod on this subject. I am well aware that I don't have a spiritual gift of service and helps.
There are always needs and we can't live our lives in a vacuum; and that goes for church as well as in the rest of our lives. Perhaps it is doing what is needed rather than endless activities that also matters. I don't personally find it comfortable having a "Game night" at church nor have I been a social "butterfly" in general but these events when accompanied with prayer (and not with sinful activities that so often come about) these events can be edifying. As I stated previously discussions on world events often deviate toward speculation; there are times when scriptures can be discussed; and can be edifying when these discussions go into detail of Bible truths.
Evangelism
I probably said sometime in the last few years of posts that prayer is also good accompanying evangelism for anyone genuinely seeking it. I am not into the "sinner's prayer" in initial conversations; once we get to know people and see a genuine conviction that is the time to seek if they are ready to commit their lives to the Lord. We are partially responsible for someone's fate (blood on our hands) if we don't warn people of taking a vow to God flippantly. We should warn that the more we know the more we are responsible for. We should give many warnings as Christ did about it being the "narrow" path not the broad road leading to destruction ( Matthew 7:13-14). We should also give caution on the trials; thorns and temptations that God uses to test us to see if we are true believers ( Matt. 13:22). Such exhortations may filter out some; but I am convinced will in the end have a greater percentage of committed believers who endure to the end. The song by David Meese "You've gotta count the cost if you want to be a believer" isn't exactly the lingo in today's Christian music "industry" and that is to it's shame.
Matthew 7:21 - not everyone who claims to follow Jesus will be saved.
Most all Christians I see on TV come across as false teachers and this is troubling. Nearly all seem to be obsessed with money and power and are crafty and deceptive in their words. The following verse comes to mind:
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Matthew 7:15 KJV
What I don't understand is how they come to this prominent position in the first place. Does God let them attain this and why?
Did they start out with good intentions then become corrupted, or have they always been wolves in sheep's clothing?
God bless
We can do the right thing with the wrong heart and we fall short of perfection.
TO BE PERFECT YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE BLAMELESS.
1 Corinthians 8:9-12 is another scenario to consider.
We often think of the things we do wrong as sin.
What about the things we don't do right or good? Consider James 4:17.
Here's our goal.
Galatians 5:25-26
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Let's see if we are perfect in this using Galatians 5:24 "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
Here's a list of the works of the flesh in Galatians 5:19-21.
( Most of these we can claim on the surface but God judges the heart.)
Are we PERFECTLY blameless in not doing any of these in our hearts?
THOSE ARE A LIST OF THINGS A CHRISTIAN SHOULDN'T BE DOING. ( If we are doing these we are sinning.)
Christians are known "BY" there Love for one another and should be barring fruit.
John 13:34-35.
1 John 4:20-21.
Matthew 7:15-16.
Let's use Galatians 5:22-23 to see what we should be doing. "PERFECTLY since our focus is on the ability to be perfect in these natural bodies.
love,
joy,
peace,
longsuffering,
gentleness,
goodness,
faith,
Meekness,
temperance.
IF YOU ARE NOT DOING THESE PERFECTLY "FOREVER ON! YOU ARE NOT PERFECT OR BLAMELESS.
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. James 4:17.
God bless.
Part 1
And I will put my spirit within you, "AND CAUSE" you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Ezekiel 36:27.
The apostle Paul says that "for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus" ( Ephesians 2:10). The word "workmanship" means "that which is made, a work of art." It refers to a "masterpiece." What Paul's saying is that all God's children are His masterpieces.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Dead Works.
In the Bible the phrase "dead works" is found in the book of Hebrews.
Hebrews 6:1-3.
"Repentance from dead works".
Repentance means to change the way we think. We need to change the way we think about dead works.
From the outside looking in we can't tell the difference between dead works and good works. They can look very much the same outwardly. They can be the same works, but they have different motives.
Praying can be a dead or good work.
Attending church can be a dead or good work.
Reading the Bible can be a dead or good work.
Telling others about Jesus can be a dead or good work.
That's why Jesus said what he said in Matthew 7:22-23.
Prophesying, casting out demons, performing miracles in the name of Jesus are all outwardly good things. But Jesus will reject "many" who do those things. Why? Because their hearts are wrong. These people have the wrong motivations for the things they do.
Dead works are any attempt to find favor, earn acceptance or be made righteous before God by one's own effort, ability or willpower.
Religion puts the emphasis on doing right. In contrast, Jesus and the apostles put the emphasis on believing right, because when we believe right we will naturally do right as a consequence.
If we can't tell outwardly, then how do we know what a good work is?
See part 2.
I especially agree with your comment of, how when we change the things of God they diminish in value. Changing the day of rest, the seventh day of the week, to Sunday has, as I know you are aware, become NO day of rest for the believer or anyone else. This hurts our witness. We cannot pick and choose the commandments to suit ourselves. The early church honored the Sabbath until about 35AD to 100AD. After that time many "ravening wolves" ( Matthew 7:15) had begun to enter in and by 345AD Emperor Constantine held the Laodicean Council and changed the day of rest to the first day of the week to stop persecution of Jews and Christians for worshipping on the Sabbath. There were many people already practicing rest and worship on the first day so He made it a law to stop the persecution. This is a simple account of the history. If you search Laodicean Council you can learn a lot more about it. Just be careful to backup what you read or hear by scripture. Again, welcome and I hope you will join in with this discussion as it goes along. God Bless :)
1 Corinthians 16:2 "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, t
Romans 14:5 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."(Question? Does your church only meet on Sunday to fellowship and hear preaching and teaching? Is Sunday the only day of the week you might hear preaching from the minister? This verse just tells of believers gathering on Sunday to fellowship and listen to Paul preach because he had to leave the next day. It doesn't interpret as abolishing their regular worshiping on the Sabbath.)
Collisians 2:14 & 16 "Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES (my caps) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross; Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or the new moon or of the sabbath days." (This judgment is speaking of situations on the sabbath as when David fed his men shewbread that was only to be eaten by the Jewish Priests on the Sabbath. 1 Samuel 21:1-6, Christ feeding His disciples from the cornfield on a Sabbath. Matthew 1:21 and pulling an ox out of a ditch on the Sabbath. Luke 14:5; if there are things that needed to be done out of necessity on the Sabbath, you should not let men judge you for doing that.)
I don't know how any of the verses I noted can be interpreted as showing that the early church willingly changed it's weekly worship and fellowship from the sabbath to the first day of the week. As I presented, there is historical proof that they didn't. As the "ravening wolves in sheep clothing" ( Matthew 7:15) began to creep into the church, a change was eventually made to abolish the sabbath and worship and refrain form labor on Sunday. Constantine and the Catholic Church mainly changed it and the world followed.
God Bless :)
So let's begin with Jesus. Matthew 7:15: "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." And the word beware means all of us should be alert, but especially shepherds, to identify not just false teaching, but false teachers, whose ways are subtle. They're clothing themselves with lamb's wool while they're wolves.
And Paul used the same Greek word for beware in Acts 20:28-29 when he said, "Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. . . . I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock."
"IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE FLOCK, WE SHOULD EXPOSE FALSE TEACHERS AND MINIMIZE THE SPREAD OF THE GANGRENE."
Jesus used the same word again in Matthew 16:6, but he got more specific: "Watch and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Paul had the same kind of group in mind and the same kind of error in mind in Philippians 3:2 and 3:18: "Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh." And then verse 18:
"For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ." Then in Romans 16:17, he warned, "Watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them."
BEWARE OF THE WOLVES.
God bless.
Part 4.
We use Brothern to loosely today. Everyone amongst us is not a Brother or a Sister!
Look at the example Jesus gives in Matthew 12:47-50.
"Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren.
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Romans 12:3 says not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
We all have flaws and we're all of one body ministering by the same Spirit, having gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us by "THE GIFT" (Christ Spirit.) We are to exercise those gifts by the power of Christ Spirit.
We are to Love one another; I've declared that on this site since I've been on it using John 13:34-35 as a springboard.
Also, 1 John 4:20-21 and Matthew 7:15-16.
We shall be known by our fruit, not our gifts!
CAN YOU GENERATE THIS ON YOUR OWN?
Love amongst the brothern is not partial.
It's not determined by race, wealth, political parties, Gender, status in the church, or one's eschatology.
Love at its highest level is Agape. It's caused by the Holyspirit that knits us as one. It's to be totally given over to.
I've seen where one says he have the gift of discernment but yet he shuns other Brothern.
If you have an issue with a brother, you restore him. Galatians 6:1-4.
We must look out for each other. James 5:20 says, "Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins." Confrontation may be difficult, but it is not loving to allow a professing Christian to continue in a sin that will bring God's consequences upon him.
See Part 5.
Part 2.
Here's is your response to the original post.
"Hello brother Spencer, Good evening! Thinking of doctrine, the Church practice of
giving and taking reproof by love maybe is part of what you are thinking? Church discipline and restoration?
God bless the walk.
Brother Carleton, That I absolutely agree with! However, that is not in the context of this message.
This message is more in line with Jude 1:3-4 with the focus on what is mentioned in verse 4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares,"
This has the thought of some has come into the fold sort of like through a back door.
Jude 1:10-15. He describes them. They are not Brothern. They are not Sheep.
As for "A Holy kiss.
Does the bible say greet "them" with a Holy kiss? No, I don't think so.
Romans 10:8-10 says the words is ni thy mouth.
These words is what we can confess to others if asked by what means are you saved.
However, what about the guy whom from his heart "by his mouth" speaks against truth?
We don't judge his present spiritual condition; he's done it ALREADY by refusing to believe and enter in the straight and narrow gate. See Matthew 7:13-15. and John 3:18.
What do these verses concerning a Holy kiss have in common? This Holy kiss is for the Brothern.
1 Corinthians 16:20.
2 Corinthians 13:11-12.
1 Thessalonians 5:26.
Romans 16:16.
The Holy kiss wasn't only meant to express love for the Brothern.
The Holy kiss is meant to express acceptance especially at a time when Gentiles was coming into the fold.
It certainly wasn't for non-believers.
Look at 2 John1:10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.
Also see Romans 16:17-18.
Does open rebuke harm a brother?
Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. Proverbs 27:5-6.
See Part 3
What is SIN in God's eyes, NOT man's eyes?
Why do so FEW enter the Kingdom of God?
Does SIN keep them out?
ONLY eight in Noah's time.
ONLY two in Joshua's time.
Matthew 7:14 ... FEW there be that find it ..... in our time.....
Hosea 4:14 I WILL NOT PUNISH your daughters when they commit WHOREDOM, nor you spouses when the commit ADULTERY: for themselves are SEPARATED with whores, and they sacrifice with harlots, therefore the people that doeth not understand SHALL FALL.
Proverbs 16:6 .... by TRUTH and MERCY iniquity (sin) is purged ....
What is this SIN (in God's eyes) that can be purged by TRUTH and MERCY ......that keeps the many from the Kingdom of God?
God BLESS YOU!
What is SIN in God's eyes, NOT man's eyes?
Why do so FEW enter the Kingdom of God?
Does SIN keep them out?
ONLY eight in Noah's time.
ONLY two in Joshua's time.
Matthew 7:14 ... FEW there be that find it ..... in our time.....
Hosea 4:14 I WILL NOT PUNISH your daughters when they commit WHOREDOM, nor you spouses when the commit ADULTERY: for themselves are SEPARATED with whores, and they sacrifice with harlots, therefore the people that doeth not understand SHALL FALL.
Proverbs 16:6 .... by TRUTH and MERCY iniquity (sin) is purged ....
What is this SIN (in God's eyes) that can be purged by TRUTH and MERCY ......that keeps the many from the Kingdom of God?
God BLESS YOU!
Good to hear from you. Thank you or reminding us again to pray for you and Shelley. I will certainly do so. God is good, and even though the answers we hope for have not yet materialized for us, He will always do what is best for us. We believers are His adopted children, the greatest privilege in all of history! He promised in His word that he, our Heavenly Father will give good gifts to those who ask.
Matthew 7:11
So, John continue to ask. He is faithful. You will see that He is when all is said and done, In the meantime we live by faith in Him believing that he is good and a rewarder of those who seek Him with all their hearts.
it is always good to hear from you. I know from your past posts that you have endured many difficulties that many of us have not. I will remember your son in my prayers as well. May the Lord restore good relationships between you and your son and Shelley.
I am a lot like you in many ways. I rid myself of all technology. No phone, vehicle etc. I wanted to go back to roots if you understand what I mean. I only kept my PC so I can try to study the bible and have only recently setup a facebook account a couple of months back so that I can try to "fellowship" with as many different Christians as that is where everyone seems to be and I did not want to ( 1 Corinthians 3:18) "deceive myself". But I am a very cautious and self-aware individual and so I am wary of ( Matthew 7:15) wolves in sheep's clothing while at the same time I don't want to become a fulfillement of the prophecy ( 2 Timothy 4:3) which I feel is actually coming to pass. I want to find that biblical sound doctrine So I know what path I need to walk.
I thank you for your time, patience and guidance and May our Lord God the Father bless you. Peace and love to you in Jesus name.
Matthew 7:6, "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."
What does it say here about "dogs"? That they will turn against you and tear you. That is what those people do. Tear other people.
Also dogs were considered unclean animals in the Old Testament. So those people are unclean and aggressive. We all know what people like that are like. Once you meet them and realize what they are like, you keep a distance from them, you don't want to be biten, do you?
GBU
Part 1.
Response to part 1.
1) You asked,if a man can choose, can he later as a Christian choose to forsake Christ thereby abandoning his salvation and losing the gift of eternal life? Or is it all predestined? If so, why would there be a judgment?
2) You said Isn't it to believe in him whom he sent?) That is true. To some that is easy, all they must do is believe, they have their ticket. Someone then asks them do they believe in God and what Jesus did, all they must do is say yes, I believe. Is it just to believe that is contradictory, is this a half-truth, like you will not surely die? Gen. 3:4-5. Ronald the scripture saysThat if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE IN THY HEART that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Believing in thy heart is a true profession. it would be like the example given in Matthew 7:21-23.
3) Ronald, you asked; If we say when someone walks away or falls back into sin they were never saved to begin with. If we do is that judging? Is there any way for us to know what is in the heart of another man or woman? and if we say they were never saved is that just to support a doctrine?
I would say no the scripture declares them unsaved. Matthew 7:23.
I would also ask you. if you say someone fell back into sin as you said they would lose their salvation. Isn't that judging and is that just to support a doctrine also?
4) Response to part 3.
You said, Concerning Pentecost, Peter was pleading that they accept Jesus as their Messiah that was promised, and they killed Him, not to repent from Judaism. (accepting Jesus Christ is turning from Judaism!) And act 15 they were opposing Judaism. Acts 15:5-11. ' You noticed verse 11? "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.Peter is saying the Jews shall be saved even as the gentiles!
See Part 2.
What I find shocking is that you don't realize that.
I'm also always amazed by the amount of pushback this topic gets from both men and women in Christendom...
Paul urges all those claiming to be spiritually saved to "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves" 2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
I had decided not to participate any more in debates, especially about the OSAS doctrine, but I think I can not avoid it. I have seen that there are certain theological "inventions" of those who accept the OSAS belief. Firstly the one already known, that is the idea of "not truly saved" and now as I read your post, the idea of "accepting Christ but not knowing Him", am I wrong?
OK lets start from the begining. When is one saved? When he accepts Christ or when he gets to know Him? Definitely when he accepts Jesus. What does that mean? It means that as one hears the Word of God and that Word gets inside his heart (this is the seed that eventually goes inside the good soil) that Word causes him to repent and follow a new path in His life. Next, God regenerates him enabling him to follow that path. Can we agree on that? What does it mean that we know Christ? This is a process that takes a long time in our lives. It doesn't occur only when we read about Jesus and His teachings in the Bible but it mainly occurs as we follow Him in our lives and we get experience with Him along that path. This does not occur overnight, it is a lenthy process. So we can not claim that we are saved when we get to know Christ. In such a case it would take years to aquire salvation.
Let go to Matthew 7:21-23
" 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Lets gather all the points of interest in that teaching.
1. It occurs at the Final Judgement
2. Jesus talks to people who know Him or about Him, they call Him Lord.
Sampson. Hebrews 11:32 mentions Sampson in passing but doesn't elaborate on the subject.
Judges 13 gets into the beginning of the story of Manoah and his wife who had an angelic visitation from God announcing the birth of Sampson and the prophesied deliverance from the Philistines that his life would enable. Interestingly the angel appeared both times to the woman and it seemed this unnamed wife had more sense than her husband who was convinced they would die after such a visitation. Perhaps Sampson's upbringing in such a household led to some of his irrational behaviors as he grew up.
Judges 16 shows where Sampson ended up with Delilah; who ultimately sapped his strength to the point where he was blinded and no longer able to resist his enemies who were using her against him. He had lost his wife according to Judges 14:3 after they killed her following his vengeance in killing 30 Philistines. This tragedy could have been avoided if he had married within his people. He would continue to follow his affections; yet somehow God saw that he had genuine faith. This is perhaps best illustrated when he deliberately gave up his life in knocking down the pillars of Dagon's temple in Judges 16:29; and kills more Philistines than he did his entire life previously.
How we end life clearly is important; if the rest of our life is screwed up but we end it well then we can enter into heaven; the other extreme exists for those who turn away at the last minute; sadly a friend of mine said that was the case with his mother after being in a home where believers surrounded her the last few months of her life she turned away from the faith.
The examples in the last few posts show how God knows the heart; we can never be sure someone can't turn at the last minute but certainly shouldn't count on it. Matthew 7:20 shows us how in time we can see those who are truly saved by GOOD FRUIT.
Your use of Matthew 7:14 is misinterpreted because TRUE, few will find The Way but what does finding the way have to do with Election? For Election is NOT about works (finding The Way), but Election is ALL about God Choosing! Look at Rom. Ch.11, the whole chapter. It's all about God "cutting off" His Chosen for the sake of those NOT chosen. There are two types of elect; there are those Chosen before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1:4. And those chosen, only because His Chosen were "cut off"! Romans 11:11-12. The Jews (Hebrew) for the Gentile, the vessels of wrath for the vessels of mercy, Romans 9:21-23 and Christ for the world, Matthew 27:46. This is a Pattern, a plummet line, a way for us to "measure" the things of God.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Let us compare this scripture with these verses
John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"
Matthew 7:21-23 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Salvation isn't just us "accepting Christ" but us KNOWING Him and of course means He must "know" us. This word means the most intimate relationship and is used to describe relations between husband and wife in scripture. Hearing Christ therefore is only a first step on our part; the Pharisees were blind even though they saw (end of Matthew 23). Those who Christ know were those given to Him by the Father ( John 6:39). Predestination is a repeated theme in John indicating those who God gave the Christ to save. Salvation means goodfruit
So it is true every knee will eventually bow. Most will be to late, as it will be after they are dead, and standing before Jesus on Judgement Day.
Here Jesus confirms FEW will find everlasting life.
Matthew 7:14
"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
Now is the time, while we are still living to bow before Jesus/God, pick up your cross and become a True Christ Follower!
Read and believe!
Sorry for such a late response.
Myself and several others on this site have debated this topic often and when debating you we've made it very clear that if a person is continuing in habitual sin, he is not likely a saved person.
Adam, God chastise those that are his. He don't let his children get away with sin.
Where you say a Christian can lose his salvation, We've said Everyone Professing Christianity is not saved, siting Matthew 7:21-23 and highlighting verse 23 "And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".
Jesus said he knows his sheep.
He also said I will never leave or forsake us.
John 10:27.
Hebrews 13:5.
I've also referred people to this portion of scripture concerning this debated topic.
Romans 5:20 through Romans 6:4.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Goodnight and God bless.
Thank you. Galatian 1:6-9 is certainly a supporting amplification of John 1:10. There were many then who were teaching falsely. Needless to say it was rampant then. All who today who accurate read the same word we still have in the N. T. will agree we are deluged with likely even more false teaching today. The only answer the Bible seems to give us on this is only a few really do understand it correctly and will be included those who are resurrected and Born again at his coming.
Chris
Thank you. Galatian 1:6-9 is supporting & amplification of John 1:10.
There were many then teaching falsely. It was common if not rampant then. All who accurately read the N. T. today will agree it is likely even more false teaching today. The only answer the Bible seems to give us; only a few correctly understand and live the way Jesus was teaching.
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
There will still be relative few who will be resurrected when Christ returns. At that point only the few will receive eternal life, be Born again, and made a Spirit Being.
I Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I Thessalonians 4:16-18
16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
bedbugg - James