Discuss Luke 12


Luke 12 KJV Bible discussions
 
  • Richard H Priday - 4 days ago
    The Mark of the Beast: What we need to know

    Introdution: According to 1 Thessalonians 5:9 we are not appointed to wrath. Romans 9:22 seems to indicate that there are indeed "vessels of wrath" doomed for destruction which seems to fulfill what some call "double predestination" or wicked destined for hell. We do know that all those who are NOT written in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world will accept the Mark of the Beast and in fact worship him. ( Rev. 13:8; 17:8 and also in chapter 20). Whether we just play out what is already determined; or God knows ahead of time what we will choose is something we can argue about.

    Since this Antichrist is indeed the "man of sin" ( 2 Thess. 2:3) and we can also call the son of perdition in John 17:12 as representing Judas Iscariot who also was destined to betray God and be lost according to the prophecy in Psalm 55 along with the same fate for this Beast from these and other passages; we once again see God's hand in this. God is the one according to Thessalonians that sends "strong delusion" ( 2 Thess. 2:11). That is because people loved sin so much that they didn't want to repent; and we see this with the behaviors that occur during the Trumpet judgments in particular.

    These facts are sobering; we know that if it weren't for His grace we would never see clearly our sin nature and hence we all would fall for this false Messiah. This world system has nothing to offer; nor does any man who is unregenerate to give lasting peace. Neither sacrifices of animals or man's own sufferings procure any justification or forgiveness of sins; and God is not impressed with any of our accomplishments. Self gratification no doubt will be a large part of the universal appeal; along with self preservation that eventually leads to the acceptance of this infamous mark. Luke 12:12 may have double fulfillment; both for the Apostles facing martyrdom and the end time saints who refuse the mark.
  • Bennymkje - 1 month ago
    Matt.20:15-16 Thine eye being evil"

    "Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?/So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen."

    God is the householder and when we have become the many sons of God we may say we are of his house and our rights and privileges are that conferred by his Son. "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom."( Luke 12:32). This aspect of kingdom building is what we considered in the earlier posts. We ministered with the Son who showed with his life as to how. "And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant." (20:27) Holiness of God is made manifest because He sent his own Son whose humanity showed what was good.

    In the Parable of the Laborers the willing hands were for hire and nothing else they brought into the vineyard. All they had in mind was merely a penny as the day's wages. They were hireling while Jesus as the Good Shepherd is not working for his hire but he seeks to promote the interest of his Father. He knows the sheep by name so his interests and of his Father are in lockstep. "And know my sheep, and am known of mine./ As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. ( John 10:14-15) Kingdom building cannot be left to the hirelings because they are not trustworthy if left to themselves. An hireling "seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep./The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep."(vv.12-13). For this reason the Householder calls their eye is evil. Their heart is not right since they are in the vineyard for the penny they agreed upon. Salvation is likened to a day's wages.

    v.14 Hierarchy on the basis of hours is a lie if the contract stipulated day's wages only. Similarly the Pope and the sexton can only be paid what is agreed before hand.
  • Bennymkje - 1 month ago
    Matt.20:22" Baptism of fire"

    "But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able."

    Having announced what Jerusalem signaled he foresees the fire already kindled. This is what we can gather from the Lucan gospel. ""I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?/ But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!/ Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:" ( Luke 12:49-51)" John the Baptist also had touched upon before Jesus had begun his ministry. He asked 'many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, thus: "Who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"/"And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (Matt.3:7,10). From the next verse it is very clear that he is referring to the day of wrath.(Mal.3:2) it has several degrees where he sits "as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver," leading to the day of judgment which is 'qualified by 'unquenchable fire.'

    "He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:/ Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." (3:11-12)

    From these verses we may conclude that Jesus Christ with his resurrection shall present before the Jews and the Gentiles as a stumbling block. Either they will choose or deny him. "And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."(21:44) His disciples are called to throne of glory where the quality of it is hundredfold meaning whatever they lost in the process was chaff.
  • Bennymkje - 1 month ago
    Matt.17:5 "Hear ye him" (2 of 2)

    "And behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."

    The Spirit uses the expression, "behold" which is not solely addressed to the natural ear but also to the ear of faith. This is the significance of the bright cloud,- they have heard and woe to ye if you pretend not to hear it. The scribes and Pharisees were good at this hypocrisy, "Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:/All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."(23:2) Similarly whosoever speaks of justification and have no faith in works he is a liar. "f we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." ( 1 John 1:10). His word is not in them is what Apostle John says to them. God witnessed 'Hear ye him" and the cloud of witnesses representing the world of the Spirit is in each of us witnesses the truth. Hypocrisy of the Evangelicalism is to deny the works. "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."(John6:29)

    Elisha would thus know beforehand the plan of King of Syria, and as the servant tells, "None, my lord, O king: but Elisha, the prophet that is in Israel, telleth the king of Israel the words that thou speakest in thy bedchamber." (2 Ki.6:12). This is precisely what Jesus meant, "Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops."( Luke 12:3). Psalmist David calls the cloud of witnesses as the great congregation. (Ps.40:9) This is the reason that I spare not myself to reveal what the Spirit has instructed me, despite of my age and infirmities because this shall be read and become the mainstream as and when God shall decide. So patience and faith makes my labour of love as for His glory. Amen
  • Bennymkje - 1 month ago
    Luke 12:14-15 " A man's life" (2 of 2)

    "And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth".

    Jesus as the Son is called the prince of life. In his resurrection he also established the way to life abundant, which is not same as abundance of things. Mammon another name for the devil holds riches as his ace in his sleeve to destroy the unwary and fools. The Parable of the Rich Fool gives us a look of one who was not rich towards God. He was a fool to believe only in a world the other man's riches have blinded his eye of faith. For them there is no remedy. The man who had great possession could not get over it in order to follow Jesus. He heard how to be perfect but abundance of the other man's wealth closed his ear of faith. "But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions."(Matt.19:21-22). Without faith one cannot be perfect where the grace of God makes both worlds of the body and of the Spirit in harmony.

    Grace of God works through his Son so He makes a way open before His children. The fish that supplied the tribute money is a case in point. We have false shepherds cheating IRS to conceal their ill-gotten coins but Jesus showed how to navigate both worlds at the same time. "Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee." (Matt.17:22)

    All promises of God are yea in his Son. So what was the point of God blessing 'them' on the sixth day? (Ge.1:28-30)Blessings mentioned on each day in the Abstract work together so God's commandment to "subdue' is to create over-comers and not fools whose art of deal come unstuck in spectacular fashion at the end of their lives.
  • Bennymkje - 1 month ago
    Luke 12: 14 "Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?" (1 of 2)

    Here we have question and it is asked by Jesus who is the fulfillment of the Law. The quarrel over inheritance on the basis of the Law of Moses did not interest him. Moses himself could have supplied his bitter experience. He had tried to intervene in the quarrel of his fellowmen and what was the result? "And he said, Who made thee a prince and a judge over us? intendest thou to kill me, as thou killedst the Egyptian? And Moses feared, and said, Surely this thing is known."(Ex.2:14). His own hands were not clean, enough. Jesus knew no sin and did no sin so he could have cast the first stone on man who transgressed according to the law. " He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."( John 8:7)

    Jesus was among as the Word made flesh to prove that the Law was doable and not dabble in the justice system that only dealt with one world. As the Law that he represented covered both worlds, the present and the worlds to come. So he stood outside their petty squabbles over wealth which was 'other man's riches' meaning it was devil's business.

    One may ask Does God condone capital punishment?

    All Authority come from God. "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God./ Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation." Those who are in power are themselves subject to God.

    Law of sin is not from God. Man chose knowledge of good and evil over the commandment of God so he is servant to sin from the greatest to the lowest. So whatever name one calls, President or Caesar are servants to sin and their laws are accordingly sinful. Rather than ask if capital punishment is good or bad, ask yourself under what law you come: under the Law of the Spirit or under law of sin? (Ro.8:1)"
  • Bennymkje - In Reply - 2 months ago
    Hi Momsage,

    I shall only explain the point you make, "I'm still wondering what your purpose is for using corrupt versions? To me, if you use them, you trust them to be accurate, even if what they say is different from what God's translation says," All scripture is God breathed. The writers in Greek themselves were not handling classic Greek that one may expect from Plato or any other masters. "The New Testament was written in a form of Koine Greek, which was the common language of the Eastern Mediterranean" areas. God could make it work because it is the Spirit that intercedes "And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God,"as St Paul eloquently explains in this vv.27-28. Not only with prayers but also in grasping the word of God. So truth written in our inward parts must help to go beyond the literal.Those who are the hard nuts who would rather win what they believe and not believe that they are 'the called according to his purpose' They fail because their ear of faith is shut out.

    The parable of the rich fool Luke 12:13-21 in any version can only mean one thing. KJV is not saving any because it is accurate and others are corrupt. Hypocrisy of the Pharisee was in their insistence on the outward appearances. They did not enter therein to believe the doctrine of Jesus. "God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto God." we ought to look at the word of God beyond Sabbath and such like baggage, in the light of our Savior. May God help you to the truth.
  • Richard H Priday - 2 months ago
    God's jealousy: Chastisement or judgment

    There have been a number of posts where I have brought up the fact that God chastises all those He loves ( Heb. 12:6; Proverbs 3:12). The alternative to that is eventually the judgment of our works; which of course without Christ leads to damnation as no one does good; not even one ( Rom. 3:11-12; Psalm 53:3).

    What hasn't been discussed is the fact that those living through the same event could personally be experiencing chastisement or judgment depending on the state of the individuals in question. This can be illustrated in 1 Cor. 10:1-5 where everyone went through the sea but God's displeasure caused many to die. In fact; only Joshua and Caleb were to survive from that generation to enter the Promised Land. Moses himself could only see it from afar. This is not to say that all were lost who came out of Egypt who peerished in an eternal sense (as we see with Moses); but the pattern is there. God performed what He promised in deliverance; despite the complaints in the wilderness He provided for their needs.

    This pattern can be seen in the judgments of Revelation. God uses the Tribulation to purify His people and bring a countless multitude to the Lord through martyrdom ( Rev. 7:9-11 etc). There are also those with the mark of God who may be so spiritually pure that chastisement is not really needed ( Rev. 7:1-8).

    Clearly even today the attitude of someone in this life in a similar situation is vastly different depending if they are walking in the Spirit or in the flesh. Luke 12:48 shows the principle of more responsibility to those who are given much; that is we have the Spirit of God who has overcome the world living in us as saints. We have overcome the world but are still living in the world ( John 17:16-26).

    We must always remember that Christ has won the war; we are in battles leading to the inevitable victory against a vanquished foe. Let your light shine therefore before men ( Matt. 5:16).
  • Richard H Priday - 3 months ago
    Persecution and Biblical counsel:

    Matthew 5:44 states:

    "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

    The scriptures show multiple times such as Matthew 27:19 with Pilate's wife (who may or may not have come to saving faith) and with Paul in particular (with the jailor who he had a chance to bring to faith along with his whole family) in Acts 16:30-33. The jailor even showed compassion in washing the stripes from whipping of Paul that apparently occurred earlier. There were others who Paul was able to bring to faith who were often wives of important officials.

    Jesus; of course knew what He was talking about since we ALL start out as enemies of God. This puts us on an even playing field so to speak; so that we cannot understand how God can change the heart of a serial killer but not of someone who always seems to be a "nice person" whether our family members or friends. It isn't so much important to browbeat someone as to their sinfulness to convince them to repent; ASSUMING that we are preaching about the sorry state of human souls in general with unregenerate hearts. This is how the Gospel was preached; those in authority were given general and very harsh rebukes by Christ as part of the general call. WE certainly need to clearly speak of how Jesus saved us from total depravity or however we want to describe our sorry state before salvation.

    Matthew 10:28 shows what we should NOT fear (our death) and what our persecutors SHOULD fear (see also Philippians 1:28).

    Easier said than done; actually not possible apart from the Spirit giving us the utterance (see Luke 12:12).

    We must remember God determines when our last day is on earth not Satan or man. No doubt Satan desires 24/7 to destroy us so we must always be vigilant and not let our guard down. The same should be said in prayer for those suffering persecution today.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Hi Jesse,

    I understand in delays in replies many work and have family responsibilities. This subject is being discussed by several people and I just wanted to share a few points of my understanding on it. The questions were not directed towards you, you can reply to them if you want but they were some of the questions I wrote down when I was studying this subject because some Scriptures seem to support both understandings if not deeply studied, not saying you have not.

    Scripture tells us God is love, 1 John 4:8,16 and we have been told God does not have pleasure in the death of the wicked, Ezekiel 33:11 caries us to John 3:16 God does not want us to perish. The Bible tells us the soul that sinneth will die, Ezekiel 18:4 God preserves the souls of the saints Psalms 97:10 the faith and belief in Jesus by the grace of God can save our soul Hebrews 10:39.

    Scripture tells us of various degrees of punishment like in Luke 12:46-48 Revelation 21:8. In Genesis 2:7 man became a living soul/being, my understanding is the breath of God is the spirit of life which goes back to God when we die whether lost or saved and this body becomes a dead soul that sleeps in the dust until resurrection then the judgment Revelation 20.

    To repeat, eternal life is our promise it is something we do not have, only by faith and belief in Jesus Christ by the grace of God we will receive this gift when we are resurrected not before. If we say our souls are immortal, we are saying we already have eternal life, and it is just where are we going to spend it?

    My understanding is the lost and wicked punishment is eternal forever, not the punishing, Satan and the fallen angels the beast and false profit will be tormented day and night for ever and ever as we see in Revelation 20:10, but they are not mortal beings like we are, and we see in Matthew 25:41 it was originally prepared for them.

    Just my understanding of Scripture thanks again.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Jesse - In Reply - 4 months ago
    Jema or Shabbat Keeper,

    (Part 3):

    Matthew 25:30 says to cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Where is this place and who goes there? How can someone who cease to exist weep or gnash their teeth?

    Daniel 12:2 says that many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. This is obviously speaking of two classes of people, believers and non-believers. If one (or both) cease to exist when they die, how can this be?

    In Ephesians Chapter 4, when Jesus descended into the lower regions of the earth, what was that for? Why would He go there? Who were these captives that He loosened?

    Luke 12:5 says, "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." If a person just ceases to exist when they die, why would they have to fear being cast into Hell?

    I realize that these are a lot of questions, but what you are presenting here, I think would cause many believers to have questions. Again, if you choose to answer these questions, I do appreciate your time.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 5 months ago
    Hello Adam, you have been missed on here lately.

    I would like to speak to the Luke 12 passage.

    In this, the beginning of the chapter, Jesus is giving admonishment to his disciples to not fear the persecution and martyrdom that would come upon them for following Him, as the most they can do to any of those who would do this to them is kill the body.

    Then he reminds them that God knows even the number of hairs on one's head and is concerned for the demise of sparrows.

    He warns them that those who confess Him before men, Jesus will confess them before the Father. (as approved); but one who denies Him will Jesus deny before the angels and the Father.

    Next, He describes the unforgivable sin.

    Then He tells them how the authorities of Judaism will drag them before the magistrate to be prosecuted, but the Holy Spirit will give them the right words to speak (for He is our Advocate, legal defender when we face accusations).

    When Jesus told them to fear God, who can both kill any one He chooses, and cast those He judges to be fit for condemnation to be thrown into the lake of fire.

    So, I think that Jesus was warning them that they will face severe trials for His name sake and that they are to be courageous in the face of these, not fearful so as to draw back from confessing Jesus as the Christ, Savoir and Lord, because the price of denying Jesus is much higher, more severe, more painful, and more lasting that if their enemies put them to death for standing for Jesus when brought to trial or captured by such men as Saul of Tarsus.

    Jesus did not want them to shrink back from their commitment to Him when their faith and allegiance is sorely tried. And He emphasizes to them that the Father is a judge who condemns those who fail to walk in faith. And this condemnation of God is immensely worse and more anguishing than any persecution, pain and suffering one could face in this life. He is telling them that the wages for unbelief are eternally anguish in the lake of fire.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 5 months ago
    Hi Adam,

    In 1 John 4:18, where it says "He that feareth is not made perfect in love," it would seem as though it is saying that it is bad to fear.

    Here is my understanding of this verse:

    He says there is no fear in love; but perfect love (that is, love brought to completion), casts out fear: because fear has torment. He that fears is not made perfect, or complete in love.

    He's talking about the motive for obeying God. Some people obey God because they are afraid. Those who have the Spirit of God, and have matured and understand about the love of God, they do things because they love Him. It's like Jesus said in John 14:15 if you love me, you will keep my commandments.

    In Luke 12:5, if we look at it with Verse 4, Jesus is showing contrast. All man can do to you is kill you, physically put you to death. And He's following this line of hypocrisy. We act a certain way so that we don't get rejected. We act a certain way so that we don't suffer the consequences.



    Even as a Christian, sometimes we compromise with nonbelievers because we have a fear and a concern whether they are going to reject us or receive us. Jesus said all you need to do is fear God. That is the only one you need to fear.

    I hope this helps. God bless!!!
  • Adam - 5 months ago
    Hello, I'd like to seek input from fellow believers on these 2 verses:

    "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love." 1 John 4:18 KJV

    To me this seems to make fear seem bad, and weak, like a character flaw if you have fear. However, the next fears says to fear God.

    "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." Luke 12:5 KJV

    The first one says someone that fears is not made perfect in love, but the other one says to fear God.

    How do I reconcile these 2 verses? Thank you to anyone who replies.
  • Frankie J - In Reply - 5 months ago
    Well, Jesse

    Holy Spirt states 1John 2:1 children do not sin, & if you do. Indicating their state

    Then in 1John 2:12-14 Holy Spirit distinguishes the maturity of the believers, as children who sins are forgiven for His name sake, the young men who have overcome the wicked one & the fathers that have known Him from the beginning, each according to the measure of the Spirit they received in their growth in Christ.

    1Pet 5:1 Peter here makes a distinction, in exhorting the elders that are among them

    1John 2:6

    Your wrong it does imply this, as plenty of Scriptures confirms this.

    Rom 8:29, conformed to the image of His Son,

    1John 3:3 pure as He is pure

    Gal 2:20 not I but Christ lives in me, only the pure in heart see & experience this on the spiritual level Paul is speaking from here.

    we think, talk & walk as He did. 1Cor 2:16 we have the mind of Christ. Philippians 2:5

    2Pet 1:3 freely has given us all things,

    Luke 10:19 He's not talking about physically hurt here, as the Scriptures give witness too.

    Luke 12:5 & that fear is to depart from evil, sin along can hurt us.

    Col 3:10 Ephesians 4:23,24 the renewing of our minds in the knowledge after the image of Him that created him,

    "the new man", is the work of Sanctification of the Spirit, bringing us into ever increasing measures of growth to maturity in Christ, the divine nature, fruits of the Spirit & ultimately being born again of the Incorruptible Seed,

    your comparisons paragraph

    you end with "how are you going to walk differently? You answered your own question

    quoting you "I DON'T always in the human perfectly follow" one's not abiding in the Vine & according to this Scriptural statement, one has transgress against the Light, which the Spirit declares in the contest of these Scriptures is that one is still a child, for the young men have overcome the wicked one & the fathers have likewise.

    Last par; Yes, this is the heart of the Father in sending His Son, Christ being the first born among many brethern
  • Frankie J - In Reply - 5 months ago
    Quoting you;

    As humans He created, we cannot attain to His infinite and boundless Holiness, but in Christ we will become perfected in the life to come to have perfect holy humanity without sin any longer. The angels are also holy and without sin, but they are creatures and thus not holy in the sense of being separate

    Friend, its not God's holiness that in dispute here, but our inheritance in Christ, now in this life.

    The holy, innocent, pure, blameless, unreproachable life of Christ is our inheritance Rom 8:29 becoming partakers of His Divine Nature, the Fruits of His Spirit which against such there is no law, In Christ, the Father withholds nothing of Himself from us, for Luke 12:32

    Its is a perfection of holiness that can be added too, as one grows in knowledge & understanding through the appearance of Grace in our hearts 2Cor 4:6,7

    It's known, felt, consummated & possess in this life & is rewarded in the next. 2 Timothy 4:7,8

    Christ prayer is answered John 17:21-24

    Holiness is none other than being engrafted into God, union & oneness with Him in heart, mind & soul, for He along is Holy

    This is the greatness of the salvation Christ purchase, that Hebrews declares "ought not to be neglected".

    For 1Thessalonians 4:7 2Thessalonians 2:13,14

    G4047 Obtaining: acquisition, possession (the act or the thing); by extension, preservation, peculiar, purchased, possession, saving.

    Concerning angels Mark 8:28

    G40- most holy, consecrated

    They are separated, Rev 19:10 "I am thy fellowservant, & of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus, worship God"

    Your quote is unscriptural,

    you are advocating a life of continuous in sin & repentance for life term, there's no fellowship, union or knowing Him in this state according to Scriptures, this teaching becomes a stumbling block to the babes in Christ, Whom God is leading in the Way of holiness, your directly contradicting the teaching of Christ who says deny self & "sin not" & put on the Lord Jesus Christ.
  • Richard H Priday - 6 months ago
    The element of surprise: The Rapture Date

    I discussed the other day about the Rosh Hashanah last trump concept that made it plausible that the Rapture would be this weekend. Clearly it went by again with no Rapture.

    When we look at various events in scripture; we see the surprise element. Surely those watchmen who are asleep or not preparing others will be surprised when He comes (as many will be watching on high holidays such as this and Pentecost).

    ( Luke 12:35-40). The enemy camp is taken easiest this way in a successful ambush. Watching and waiting with patience is more than a one or two day spectator sport. It does seem that SOME warning comes before the bridegroom arrives ( Matt. 25:6); although some say this is deliverance perhaps before the second coming or even the midpoint of the Tribulation for the Jews or those on earth at that time. In any event; the idea that the Lord delays His coming brings laziness and sin ( Matthew 24:48-51) and results it appears becoming a statistic stuck in the Tribulation at best in verse 51 if not lost forever.

    I am a Pre Trib person because it seems clear to me DECADES ago the enemy could have taken over the whole world and certainly we are on "borrowed time" today; the "restrainer" in 2 Thess. 2:6 has to be the Spirit working through the church.

    The fact that only a few are really living fully surrendered today shows why in large part the salt and light has reduced to allow the level of ecil we see widespread today. This is in the world as expected but in the Laodicean church that typifies Western churches and that of many other countries in the world today.

    Let us continue to warn others to flee the wrath to come ( Luke 3:7); whether it be imminent unexpected death or being stuck in the Tribulation. Remember that Christ comes as a thief to take His precious treasure ( 1 Thess. 5:2; Malachi 3:17). A thief such as this doesn't care about the profane; just the sacred objects of His affection.

    Agape.
  • Bennymkje - 6 months ago
    The Indwelling Spirit

    The attitude of a believer to the spirit of life is demonstrated in this incident "And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?/ But he(Jesus) turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of./ For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."( Luke 9:54-56) John was for imitating the exploits of Elias while Jesus was for fulfilling the will of God. John and James had to learn which would come by and by, and only after they received the Holy Spirit. As many as are led by the Spirit are the children of God.

    Water and fire are two witnesses to which Jesus alluded in Luke 12:54-56

    The word-wide web set up by the Spirit of God is ever in control so symbols, emblem and events are all in accordance so God is in control. The fourth beast in the vision of Daniel is about to fulfill in not so distant future. "Even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows". Well my readers say hello to the High Tech! Meet the killer robot and AI he is a little gizmo, little horn that has eyes and mouth to speak. " I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them."(Dan.7:20-21) It is the same spirit of Satan even as he gave the beast power to blaspheme. It came out of the ten horns, which indicate he is under judgment.

    Who but a man makes a robot works? He cannot work with wisdom of heaven which is the significance of God being with Moses, "And I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say." (Ex.4:12). "Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments./For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods"(Ex.7:11-12) The eternal Word in control.
  • Bennymkje - 6 months ago
    Part III (7 of 7)

    Luke 12:49-56

    Two Witnesses

    "Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?"(v.56).

    This could be Jesus asking in our times and with the climate on a crisis mode how apt it is! In continuation to the series we have just covered we shall begin with the face of the sky and face of the earth representing two worlds of the Spirit and of the body. An overcomer has to handle both worlds as one, and no other way. It is hypocrisy to set divisions on the face of the earth and expect the Christians to be part of the same body of Christ. Hunting with dogs, ('Beware of dogs') and running with hares during revival meetings shall have only one winner, and it is Satan. But Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil. In the vision of the Woman Clothed with the Sun the 10 horns of the great dragon tell that he is under judgment. So whosoever backs his gospel and his anti-christ is doomed for destruction.

    Jesus said in the above mentioned text,-and he gave a strong indication of the great tribulation his Advent would mean but the life of men called to be witnesses in a wicked world has to be by the light he represents. It is a fire already kindled to which we shall cite the destruction of Sodom and the cities of the plains. God lives in unapproachable light but also as we see in the night vision of Daniel is a consuming fire. (Dan.7). We shall begin with his quote: "I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?/ But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!"(vv.49-50)

    In the previous post titled "With the Remnant of Her Seed" we had mentioned two witnesses namely water and fire. The two pillars that served the Israelites till they reached Canaan were forerunner of the baptism of which the various sects are mostly taken up with only that of water. (1 Co.10:1-3)
  • Bennymkje - 6 months ago
    The Third Heaven (2 of 2)

    Instead of a veil the Ch. 4 we have 'a sea of glass like unto crystal'. (cf.Ez.1). When Lamb opens the fifth seal "I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held (Re.6:9)." We have a great congregation to whom Psalmist speaks of. "And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;"(Re.5:11) (Ps.40:9) " have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O Lord, thou knowest."

    Each believer witness before this great congregation.These are cloud of witnesses (He.12:1) and they figure in the night vision of Daniel."A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him"(Dan.7:10)'

    It is for this reason Jesus warned," For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known./ Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops."(( Luke 12:2-3) Elisha for this reasonwhould know what King of Syria had planned(2 Ki.6"12-17)

    What is our heart but a Spiritual space where truth serves as our guide. Indwelling Spirit serves us as an in-house tutor. As many as are led by it are the sons of God for whom the third heavens serve as the presence. 'My presence shall go with thee and give thee rest.(Ex.33:15)'

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  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Hi S Spencer,

    I agree this should not cause any division, we must always treat each other with care and love of growing in faith and knowledge of the word of God.

    Everlasting punishment, I once understood the same as you on this when we read Matt. 18:8 Matt. 25:46 and 2 Thess. 1:9 they seem to support it. And the verses that have "weeping or wailing and gnashing of teeth" that I cringe every time I read them. So, after the white throne judgment, all the wicked and unsaved people will be cast into the lake of fire the everlasting fire Rev. 20:15 Rev. 21:8 and they have a conscious eternal, everlasting, forever and ever suffering.

    On the other hand, we have Matt. 10:28 God can destroy both soul and body in hell/geenna. This carries us back to that other topic the immortal soul. In John 3:16 and Romans 6:23, the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The wicked will perish, be destroyed, and be consumed. If the wicked are to be tortured in the lake of fire forever, they would also be given eternal life.

    The fire is everlasting, it is permanent they will be destroyed and never come back they will not ever live again. We see what eternal fire can do in Jude 1:7 with Sodom and Gomorrha they were destroyed and have never returned.

    Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    You may see this verse differently but "shall have their part in the lake" I understand as God's fair justice, like stripes in Luke 12:48. Just punishment for their works or should be said their wickedness. If the wages of sin is death I believe the second death is everlasting death, forever to be no more, not everlasting punishment.

    Just my understanding thanks again for your replies.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Fredscanlan - 7 months ago
    34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

    What exactly is Jesus saying? Luke 12; 51 Jesus said He came to cause division!

    If we live according to the Spirit of God ,it is no longer us but Him that is in us. Also, that offences will come,that we who stand for the truth shall be brought before those who deny Him. Remember what He said, when that day comes, worry not about what to say , that the Holy Spirit will give you the words!

    Are we entering into the tribulation? I think not, for we have not resisted unto the shedding of blood!

    Never before, even so now, we should be in the paraclete, the comforter. What did Jesus say over and over again? Fear not, for I am with you until the end of time!

    The media is satan's tool, otherwise He has no power other than that given to Him by God! We are ambassadors for Christ, and should remember we have power in and through His promises! Repent and be Baptized
  • Richard H Priday - 8 months ago
    Checklist summary for dying to self

    Love. The last thing the flesh wants to hold on to is eros love and all the tentacles of seduction affecting the eyes; body and soul from the world; flesh and the devil ( James 3:15). Our hearts need to heed His voice; and stay within the confines of the partner God has given us in a covenant marriage only for expression of these affections. Many other things such as loving God's creation more than the Creator Himself; loving our own family and friends above the Lord; and any other emotions that distract us from our walk with God must be culled. This involves music in particular; recreational drugs and alcohol as well as anything good or bad that is not under control of the Spirit. ( Colossians 3:23).

    Other emotions. Generally; good or bad fruits show opposing traits for those under the control of the Spirit as compared with the flesh. Hetred; strife; and enmity for example being bad fruit; love; joy and peace good fruit with many other expressions listed in scripture as well. As with any addict who is recovered any believer has to realize that we indeed have no power to stop the downward spiral into these behaviors once intoxicated with them; whether it leads to violence or self destructive results.

    Planning for our future. Greed and covetousness is a sin and to be avoided. (see 10th Commandment; Luke 12:15). However; taking loans on high interest and high credit card debts to get the thrill of material items now basically robs ourselves. It is good and honorable to have an inheritance for family members; but of course we should always prioritize for the Lord in supporting missions as well as our local church. Wise planning brings prosperity; but the love of many things the opposite ( Deut 17:17)-Solomon may have had record wealth; but Ecclesiastes shows how all is vanity if God doesn't come in first and how other things crowd out the desire for God.
  • Frankie J - In Reply - 8 months ago
    Hi jimbob

    the rapture that everyone is talking about in today Christendom is a myth, divise from a theological cemetry in Dallas Tx if I understand right & yes I meant cemetery, cemetery & seminary are spiritual synonyms

    Jesus prayed, John 17:15 John 17:20

    Titus 2:11-14 appearing of the Great God & Savior is the Grace of God that appears to all mankind, His spiritual appearance in everyones heart, making it possible for all the other Scriptures you quoted possible.

    The tribulations are our spiritual inward trials & suffering as Christ breaks thru the darkness that we're captivated too,& redeems, delivers & translate us into the kingdom of His dear Son, through the washing of regeneration & renewing of the Holy Spirit unto the new creature, culminating the work of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience & sprinkling of of the Blood/Life of Jesus within us. When were truely born again, experientially Matt 3:11,12 He gathers us unto the Garder, seeing Him spirituallly come in the clouds in great glory. We're still here on earth, but we're spiritual conscious of heaven 2Cor 2:17

    The writers of the NT were speaking in the present tense, they said "we" it would be a cruel hoax to tell them to look for Him when it would be over 2000yrs later. Jesus said Luke 17:20-23 Luke 9:27 to those who were with Him then.

    Luke 11:2 Luke 12:32 here & now, this is the exceedingly great glory of the Christ sacrifice John 17:21-24

    In Love & Truth
  • Frankie J - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Matt 5:16; 2 Pet 1:4-8; 1 Pet 1:6,7; Luke 12:43; James 1:4

    Jesus said, Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.

    May the Lord bless you & keep you, may His Light shine upon you & give you peace..

    in Love & Truth

    Frankie J

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  • Adam - In Reply - 9 months ago
    It sounds like you're conflating being born again with salvation. Does the Bible say these occur at the exact same time? If so, please share those verses.

    "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15 KJV

    Jesus said this. Jesus emphasized obedience and keeping His commandments. Those who are so opposed to obeying Jesus should probably be afraid of the upcoming judgment, because someone who doesn't obey Jesus might not be a Jesus follower.

    "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21 KJV

    How can anyone believe the Bible, read this Bible verse and then believe obeying God is bad?

    "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." Luke 12:5 KJV
  • S Spencer - 9 months ago
    Judgment.

    I believe we have a all knowing God who can't be surprised who stands on the outside of time looking in!

    Anything you are going to do next week or next year, in God's view you did it yesterday!

    How can we know his judgments?

    We know that he's just and we're all guilty.

    He's righteous, Merciful, longsuffering and he's just, beyond what we can comprehend.

    With that being said our minds don't measure up when trying to understand his Judgments.

    So if we use his attributes along with what is consistent throughout ALL scripture as a principle to guide us we should come to conclusion hearing and receiving the word of God or refusing to hear and rejecting the word of God plays the primary role in God's Judgment.

    So there must be an age of maturity enough for one to understand they need an savior because little two year old Billie is a sinner and he don't know it.

    An accountability is likely when one matures and have understanding of some sort of consequences for sin, Some acknowledgement of the need for a savior.

    And I believe God judges them according to what they receives.

    Here's a few scriptures according to those basics.

    Luke 10:13-14

    Matthew 10:14-15.

    Luke 12:47-48.

    God shall judge righteous.

    You see a picture of how he uses discretion in judgment in

    Genesis 18:23-32.

    Genesis 18:35 should be considered along with God's sovereign and foreknowledge and circumstances.

    I believe there's a lot more going on in this dark world than what is on the surface and these things should be taken into consideration when questioning God's decision to destroy nations.

    We could never fully understand God's methods of Judging but we can take what we do have in scripture and say one would have to be able to comprehend more than what a child is capable of to receive judgment without mercy.

    Example.

    DEUTERONOMY 1:39

    Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day HAD NO KNOWLEDGE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL..

    GB.
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi Jema,

    Thank you for your recent responses. I believe that currently, we have a differing view on the subject of death, and hell. This subject comes up from time to time, and a fresh new thread may be beneficial at some point going forward. This thread is getting a little long so I will try keep this a short response without additional scripture.

    You stated that Jesus spoke in parables, yes He did, but much that he spoke about was not in parables, and He can be taken very literally. An example is the verse that I gave you below:

    Luke 12:4-5

    4And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

    Jesus tells us to fear God because not only can He kill us, He can also send us to hell! I think you believe that Satan and his demons will go to hell.if so, this is the same hell.

    If it is as you seem to believe; that when we die as a sinner, we just remain dead forever, Jesus would have plainly said that, and he did not. There would also be no need for a resurrection of "all souls" the just and unjust - for judgement - which is also stated plainly throughout the bible.

    GB


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