Good answers brother Jesse. I've been observing your interactions here & elsewhere, but kept out of it so that your attention be focussed. But just popping in here now, to make some general observations, but not necessarily seeking comments.
a. Judas' spiritual condition. I believe that none of the twelve were Christians. They may have portrayed that name (Christian) by following Jesus & being discipled by Him, but could not be considered to be Christians as defined post Acts chap 2. When Jesus sent them out to the lost sheep of Israel, He gave them power for that specific ministry & time ( Matthew 10:1-8), just as certain people in the OT received God's Spirit to accomplish their tasks ( Numbers 11:25-27; Othniel, Judges 3:10; Gideon, Judges 6:34; Jephthah, Judges 11:29; Isaiah 59:21; & many more) - none of these were permanently indwelt by the Spirit, but the Spirit was given by God for a special purpose. As you mentioned, Judas & the other eleven were all sinners, but the day would come when they would be transformed (except Judas who suicided), & do great exploits in Jesus' Name.
b. Water baptism. After the twelve (now Matthias is included here) had the Holy Spirit come upon them, and in them & baptized them with the evidence of speaking in 'unlearned' tongues, were these apostles ever water baptized? I never recall any of them writing of that event taking place in their lives. Of course, Paul did, but he was not of the twelve, as "one born out of due time", but were the twelve ever baptized in water? Jesus had left them before this time, so He couldn't do it and there was no one else that was born again at that time to do it, so I wonder what happened. Some maintain that they were definitely baptized, but there's no evidence of it, & if not baptized, then the apostles would have still baptized others. Or I've heard, that they baptized each other, which doesn't make sense as their testimony was the same. So maybe an unbaptized believer can baptize another.
We are reminded in this Psalm a type of admonition that those who see God's wrath in the Tribulation and beyond in Isaiah 33:14 where it is said with fear "who can dwell with everlasting burning?" That; no doubt will be the result of viewing what is seen in the end of Isaiah 66; as well as the state of the land which becomes everlasting pitch in Isaiah 34:9. There will also be fire at Armageddon and the world will be aware of Antichrist's and the False Prophet's judgments at the end of the Tribulation. We are reminded that the wicked will not stand at the judgment in Psalm 1:5.
We see many characteristics of the 10 commandments here in these short verses. We see loving our neighbor in verse 3 (and verse 2 surely implies an attitude of loving God in all ways as the first commandment requires). We also see how other things like vows are kept; that would be the meaning here and we must remember at least in N.T. times that we are not to communicate beyond "yea and nay" whenever purely human agreements are made. ( Matt. 5:34). Such things between God such as marriage vows; and other promises are to be kept and we can see one painful example in Judges 11:36-39. We also see in verse 4 having the fear of the Lord which of course is the beginning of wisdom and found in numerous scriptures.
Finally; we see a statement on usury (charging interest on loans). This was warned against the Jews doing this to their own people in Leviticus 25:35-38. This of course would put many banks out of business today but of course anything like this makes the poor worse off and the rich gaining more for their own selfish interests. We may not be able to help what banks do but in our own loans we can.
Esau was also called Edom, Genesis 36:1, please read: Obadiah 1, whole chapter
Note: Obadiah 1:10-14 "For the violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off forever. In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou was one of them. But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress. Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity; Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossways, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress."
Hello Imoh Etuk. Nahash was the king over the Ammonites ( 1 Samuel 12:12). Jabeshgilead was a city located in northern Gilead, in a section that was assigned to Manasseh (a son of Joseph, who was the son of Jacob). The Ammonites were a kindred race to the Moabites coming from the same ancestor, Lot. So they believed that a portion of their territory had been robbed from them by Israel & in the days of the Judges, they continually harrassed Israel, so Israel went to war with them. The Judge, Jephthah defeated them with a great slaughter ( Judges 11:4-13, 28-33).
So with this great defeat & disgrace in mind, & the prophet Samuel now ageing, Nahash of the Ammonites, thought to attempt to strike back again ( 1 Samuel 11:1). But this time, the men of Jabeshgilead weakened & desired to make a covenant with the Ammonites. The Ammonites would comply if they would first blind the right eyes of all the people, maybe as retribution for the previous slaughter. This proviso wouldn't do of course, so they sent for help & one Saul was moved with anger & then mustered up a great company of fighters. These men came to battle on the following day & slaughtered the Ammonites & those who escaped were very few ( 1 Samuel 11:11). And it was soon after this, that Saul was crowned king over Israel.
Verses 37-39- even though her life may not have turned out the way she planned, she took practical steps to cope with disappointment such as taking the time to sort out her feelings, confiding in her friends, and doing what she could in Jehovah God's service.
The Holy Spirit did exist & manifest itself in people prior. Genesis 1:2, Genesis 6:3, Genesis 41:38, Judges 3:10, Judges 6:3, Judges 11:29, 1 Samuel 11:6-7, 1 Samuel 16:13, 2 Kings 2:9,
1 Samuel 16:14, 1 Samuel 19:20,
There are more references. Here are some more study references. Hope this helps.
appears to be different in the manifestation unto many people at the same time with many events occurring.
Also people being able to transfer the HOLY Spirit to another seems to appear after CHRIST was resurrected from death & the grave. Acts 1, Acts 9:17,31, Acts 10:44, Acts 11:15,16, Acts 13:52, Acts 19:1-11,
All discussions and view points offered here have merit. Some more, some less. Let's not forget, how much greater God's wisdom is than ours. If we allow the Bible, God's Word, to explain Himself- a the clear rendering can be made. Just keep in mind, we must always use the whole counsel of God not just parts we know or like.
We know, from Scripture, God hated human sacrifices. He does not allow it.
One last point, people may abandon us - even family; but the Lord God Almighty never will.
Thank you Lord for this medium of learning and discussion. Lord Jesus shine His face on all here.
Ronald L Whittemore ,i dont think she would have been allowed to serve in the temple ,only male levites were allowed to serve in the temple ,Jephthas vow was to offer it as a burnt offering ,he wouldnt go back on a vow to God and he wouldnt have been so upset if she was just going to serve in the temple , these are only my thoughts , i could be wrong but i belive what it actually says .
Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord to offer as a burnt sacrifice, the first thing that came out of his house to great him. His only child, his daughter came out first. There was a tradition that if a woman who wants to give herself in service to God must be a virgin. The expression "bewail her virginity" means that she would spend two months with her close friends and relatives before joining herself to the temple.
Verse 39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,
One meaning of burnt offering is to sacrifice at the altar. The other meaning is to give oneself to serve in the Temple, the latter is most likely what was done. She being his only child left no hope for any grandchildren because she could never marry, would die a virgin.
The word lament in verse 40 sounds like she was sacrificed, but the Hebrew word "tanah" can also have the meaning of perhaps recount, rehearse or commemorate the idea of attributing honor.
So, the daughters of Israel could, for four days be honoring her for giving herself for the rest of her life to serve in the temple for the honor of her father's word and the vow he made to God. Some kind of love she had for her daddy.
As I don't want quarrel my heart leads me to reply to this statement made.
You call the Lords prayer "insulting" and "phony"?? You discredit some books of the Holy Bible yet cling to and wrest verses to fit your own "understanding" from other portions of the Holy Bible? Stating "only one person here has knowledge of what I say" and you think I'm on high?? You tell me to keep my nose in the OT and preach "everyone shall be saved"?
How's a prophecy from Daniel for you? Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. As I would think you know these prophecies are about the end times. It does not say everyone shall be saved and receive everlasting life. Like the heresies you are seeming to preach here.
If what I stated will not lead you to examine yourself. If a prophecy from the OT, Daniel, is not enough to make you rethink your "understandings" you believe in. All I can do is pray for you. You are in my prayers.
Again I posted a verse from the Holy Bible that contradicts with you posts. I am only doing this to lead you in the right direction and that is Jesus Christ. Not knowing gematria and knowing all the lies and deceptions of satan in this world. Focus on the Lord and follow Him.
I went to that site of that man you posted saying he was real smart or something. I could only watch his video for a couple minutes after seeing how rude he was cursing others out. That is not of God.
( 1 John 2:15-17 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Set your heart on producing good fruit of the Spirit for our Father. God Bless you.
It doesn't fulfill the vow by any means it is what God said to do when they broke a vow. He made a vow to god to kill the first thing that came through the door. A trespass offering was to be offered for failing to keep a vow.
Example: Had he not kept his vow and had not killed his daughter, God would require a trespass offering for the sin of not keeping the vow. He should not have even made a loose vow. Vows are better not made than not kept so when making them they should be concise and genuinely kept.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just trying to understand Leviticus 5:4-6. Considering all the "fulfill your vow" verses, would Leviticus 5:4-6 mean that by giving a trespass offering, the vow is fulfilled through the offering?
1. The king James bible says the following; he would offer her as burnt sacrifice, she lamented being a virgin for two months, then he did what he vowed. He vowed to offer her to the lord as a burnt sacrifice. This is the clear meaning of the language used in the King James Bible. This is sometimes confused with she was lamenting her virginity because she would have to remain celibate but this is not what the bible says and there are two primary issues.
2. Theory 2 says he just offered her to the lord to be celibate the rest of her life. Two problems here. 1. Levitical law allows for making a trespass offering when a person makes a vow like this. Instead of sacrificing her or dedicating her to the lord to be celibate he could have just made a tress pass offering to be forgiven of a sinful or un-kept vow. Read Leviticus 5:4-6. The second problem is if he didn't sacrifice her as the bible says and just dedicated her to the lord, Levitical law also allows a person to buy back someone they previously dedicated to the lord for 30 shekels. Leviticus 27:2-4
Honestly after being ran off by his brother Jephthah spent a lot of time out in the world and probably was not even familiar with the Levitical law any more. Not knowing the law he probably figured he was doing the right thing by sacrificing her when in reality he was not obeying god in this act, he was committing murder. The sin was making the vow in the first place and remedy was already provided for by god via a trespass offering.
Comment: Sometimes you have to see a word in use (in the Bible) to see what it pertains to.
Vain has multiple uses.
Exodus 5:9
Let there more work be laid upon the men, that they may labour therein; and let them not regard vain words.
Leviticus 26:16
I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
Leviticus 26:20
And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits.
Deuteronomy 5:11
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Deuteronomy 32:47
For it is not a vain thing for you; because it is your life: and through this thing ye shall prolong your days in the land, whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.
And they gave him threescore and ten pieces of silver out of the house of Baalberith, wherewith Abimelech hired vain and light persons, which followed him.
Judges 11:3
Then Jephthah fled from his brethren, and dwelt in the land of Tob: and there were gathered vain men to Jephthah, and went out with him.
1 Samuel 12:21
And turn ye not aside: for then should ye go after vain things, which cannot profit nor deliver; for they are vain.
1 Samuel 25:21
Now David had said, Surely in vain have I kept all that this fellow hath in the
The type of mourning exhibited by Jephthah, his daughter, and her friends could not be over her virginity. There were others in scripture who remained virgins and did not mourn. Paul and Daniel, for example. Verse 39 is also very clearly states "At the end of two months, she returned to her father, and he kept the vow he had made about her." HCSB. A vow cannot be burned. The verse clearly references "it" to be his daughter by the saying "about her."
Verse 7~The men had chased Jephthah away but when they were in distress they wanted him to come back. Jephthah raised a valid point here and showed that the men had treated him unfairly.
Frances Cantu,
She spent two months grieving in the mountains. Bewail is to express deep sorrow by wailing and to Lament is a passionate expression of grief or sorrow. Everyone young woman wanted a family and every grandfather want grandchildren to keep the inheritance. Unfortunately because of her father's vow to GOD her dreams are shattered. She'll remain a virgin for the rest of her life.
I don't understand in Judge 11:37-40 .What she meant by bewail my virginity two months in the mountain. and what did it mean when it said the daughters of Israel lament the daughters of Jephthah.
In verse 37 Jephthah's daughter requested to go away and cry for a few months. This shows that although she was willing to fulfill her father's vow, this was a difficult thing for her to do.
a. Judas' spiritual condition. I believe that none of the twelve were Christians. They may have portrayed that name (Christian) by following Jesus & being discipled by Him, but could not be considered to be Christians as defined post Acts chap 2. When Jesus sent them out to the lost sheep of Israel, He gave them power for that specific ministry & time ( Matthew 10:1-8), just as certain people in the OT received God's Spirit to accomplish their tasks ( Numbers 11:25-27; Othniel, Judges 3:10; Gideon, Judges 6:34; Jephthah, Judges 11:29; Isaiah 59:21; & many more) - none of these were permanently indwelt by the Spirit, but the Spirit was given by God for a special purpose. As you mentioned, Judas & the other eleven were all sinners, but the day would come when they would be transformed (except Judas who suicided), & do great exploits in Jesus' Name.
b. Water baptism. After the twelve (now Matthias is included here) had the Holy Spirit come upon them, and in them & baptized them with the evidence of speaking in 'unlearned' tongues, were these apostles ever water baptized? I never recall any of them writing of that event taking place in their lives. Of course, Paul did, but he was not of the twelve, as "one born out of due time", but were the twelve ever baptized in water? Jesus had left them before this time, so He couldn't do it and there was no one else that was born again at that time to do it, so I wonder what happened. Some maintain that they were definitely baptized, but there's no evidence of it, & if not baptized, then the apostles would have still baptized others. Or I've heard, that they baptized each other, which doesn't make sense as their testimony was the same. So maybe an unbaptized believer can baptize another.
We see many characteristics of the 10 commandments here in these short verses. We see loving our neighbor in verse 3 (and verse 2 surely implies an attitude of loving God in all ways as the first commandment requires). We also see how other things like vows are kept; that would be the meaning here and we must remember at least in N.T. times that we are not to communicate beyond "yea and nay" whenever purely human agreements are made. ( Matt. 5:34). Such things between God such as marriage vows; and other promises are to be kept and we can see one painful example in Judges 11:36-39. We also see in verse 4 having the fear of the Lord which of course is the beginning of wisdom and found in numerous scriptures.
Finally; we see a statement on usury (charging interest on loans). This was warned against the Jews doing this to their own people in Leviticus 25:35-38. This of course would put many banks out of business today but of course anything like this makes the poor worse off and the rich gaining more for their own selfish interests. We may not be able to help what banks do but in our own loans we can.
Esau was also called Edom, Genesis 36:1, please read: Obadiah 1, whole chapter
Note: Obadiah 1:10-14 "For the violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off forever. In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou was one of them. But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress. Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity; Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossways, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress."
Obadiah 1:6, Malachi 1, Deuteronomy 2:22, Jeremiah 49:7-22, Judges 11:17, 1Kings 11:14-25, Ezekiel 25:12-14,
Romans 9:13-15,
Hopefully these are helpful also, towards more understanding of why GOD said Esau HE hated.
So with this great defeat & disgrace in mind, & the prophet Samuel now ageing, Nahash of the Ammonites, thought to attempt to strike back again ( 1 Samuel 11:1). But this time, the men of Jabeshgilead weakened & desired to make a covenant with the Ammonites. The Ammonites would comply if they would first blind the right eyes of all the people, maybe as retribution for the previous slaughter. This proviso wouldn't do of course, so they sent for help & one Saul was moved with anger & then mustered up a great company of fighters. These men came to battle on the following day & slaughtered the Ammonites & those who escaped were very few ( 1 Samuel 11:11). And it was soon after this, that Saul was crowned king over Israel.
Vr 6 = Deuteronomy 23:3-6, Numbers 20:18-22, Numbers 24:18, Judges 11:17, 1 Kings 11:14, 2 Kings 3, 2 Kings 8:20,
Vrs. 5 & 6 = 2 Kings 8:22,
Vrs 6 & 7 = 1 Samuel 14:47,
Ezekiel 25:12, Joel 3:19, Amos 1:9,
Vrs 9 = Numbers 31:3-9, Joshua 13:21-32,
Vrs 11 = Judges 7:25, vrs 6 & 11 = Judges 8,
1 Chronicles 18:11, 1 Chronicles 18, whole chapter, 2 Chronicles 25:20-24,
Hopefully these are helpful in your study
1 Samuel 16:14, 1 Samuel 19:20,
There are more references. Here are some more study references. Hope this helps.
appears to be different in the manifestation unto many people at the same time with many events occurring.
Also people being able to transfer the HOLY Spirit to another seems to appear after CHRIST was resurrected from death & the grave. Acts 1, Acts 9:17,31, Acts 10:44, Acts 11:15,16, Acts 13:52, Acts 19:1-11,
Ephesians 5:9, Galatians 3:14, Romans 8:1,
Please read the WORD of GOD,
We know, from Scripture, God hated human sacrifices. He does not allow it.
One last point, people may abandon us - even family; but the Lord God Almighty never will.
Thank you Lord for this medium of learning and discussion. Lord Jesus shine His face on all here.
God bless everyone on this forum.
June 11, 2021
Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord to offer as a burnt sacrifice, the first thing that came out of his house to great him. His only child, his daughter came out first. There was a tradition that if a woman who wants to give herself in service to God must be a virgin. The expression "bewail her virginity" means that she would spend two months with her close friends and relatives before joining herself to the temple.
Verse 39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,
One meaning of burnt offering is to sacrifice at the altar. The other meaning is to give oneself to serve in the Temple, the latter is most likely what was done. She being his only child left no hope for any grandchildren because she could never marry, would die a virgin.
The word lament in verse 40 sounds like she was sacrificed, but the Hebrew word "tanah" can also have the meaning of perhaps recount, rehearse or commemorate the idea of attributing honor.
So, the daughters of Israel could, for four days be honoring her for giving herself for the rest of her life to serve in the temple for the honor of her father's word and the vow he made to God. Some kind of love she had for her daddy.
God bless
Judges 11 doesn't have 39 verses.
You call the Lords prayer "insulting" and "phony"?? You discredit some books of the Holy Bible yet cling to and wrest verses to fit your own "understanding" from other portions of the Holy Bible? Stating "only one person here has knowledge of what I say" and you think I'm on high?? You tell me to keep my nose in the OT and preach "everyone shall be saved"?
How's a prophecy from Daniel for you? Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. As I would think you know these prophecies are about the end times. It does not say everyone shall be saved and receive everlasting life. Like the heresies you are seeming to preach here.
If what I stated will not lead you to examine yourself. If a prophecy from the OT, Daniel, is not enough to make you rethink your "understandings" you believe in. All I can do is pray for you. You are in my prayers.
Again I posted a verse from the Holy Bible that contradicts with you posts. I am only doing this to lead you in the right direction and that is Jesus Christ. Not knowing gematria and knowing all the lies and deceptions of satan in this world. Focus on the Lord and follow Him.
I went to that site of that man you posted saying he was real smart or something. I could only watch his video for a couple minutes after seeing how rude he was cursing others out. That is not of God.
( 1 John 2:15-17 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Set your heart on producing good fruit of the Spirit for our Father. God Bless you.
Three vows that some may take and in this order is helpful. By God's grace in Christ Jesus,
keep any of these vows that one makes.
A believer's vow.
A wedding vow with another free to vow believer.
A minister/deacon vow.
Example: Had he not kept his vow and had not killed his daughter, God would require a trespass offering for the sin of not keeping the vow. He should not have even made a loose vow. Vows are better not made than not kept so when making them they should be concise and genuinely kept.
1. The king James bible says the following; he would offer her as burnt sacrifice, she lamented being a virgin for two months, then he did what he vowed. He vowed to offer her to the lord as a burnt sacrifice. This is the clear meaning of the language used in the King James Bible. This is sometimes confused with she was lamenting her virginity because she would have to remain celibate but this is not what the bible says and there are two primary issues.
2. Theory 2 says he just offered her to the lord to be celibate the rest of her life. Two problems here. 1. Levitical law allows for making a trespass offering when a person makes a vow like this. Instead of sacrificing her or dedicating her to the lord to be celibate he could have just made a tress pass offering to be forgiven of a sinful or un-kept vow. Read Leviticus 5:4-6. The second problem is if he didn't sacrifice her as the bible says and just dedicated her to the lord, Levitical law also allows a person to buy back someone they previously dedicated to the lord for 30 shekels. Leviticus 27:2-4
Honestly after being ran off by his brother Jephthah spent a lot of time out in the world and probably was not even familiar with the Levitical law any more. Not knowing the law he probably figured he was doing the right thing by sacrificing her when in reality he was not obeying god in this act, he was committing murder. The sin was making the vow in the first place and remedy was already provided for by god via a trespass offering.
Vain has multiple uses.
Exodus 5:9
Let there more work be laid upon the men, that they may labour therein; and let them not regard vain words.
Leviticus 26:16
I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
Leviticus 26:20
And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits.
Deuteronomy 5:11
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Deuteronomy 32:47
For it is not a vain thing for you; because it is your life: and through this thing ye shall prolong your days in the land, whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.
And they gave him threescore and ten pieces of silver out of the house of Baalberith, wherewith Abimelech hired vain and light persons, which followed him.
Judges 11:3
Then Jephthah fled from his brethren, and dwelt in the land of Tob: and there were gathered vain men to Jephthah, and went out with him.
1 Samuel 12:21
And turn ye not aside: for then should ye go after vain things, which cannot profit nor deliver; for they are vain.
1 Samuel 25:21
Now David had said, Surely in vain have I kept all that this fellow hath in the
She spent two months grieving in the mountains. Bewail is to express deep sorrow by wailing and to Lament is a passionate expression of grief or sorrow. Everyone young woman wanted a family and every grandfather want grandchildren to keep the inheritance. Unfortunately because of her father's vow to GOD her dreams are shattered. She'll remain a virgin for the rest of her life.