If I may add a few points to this subject, I know we have different understandings on this and I hope you will not be offended, these are questions I have asked myself. What does Scripture support, our soul is an immortal entity that consciously lives on after the death of the body or does it sleep in the grave until the resurrection? Is the definition of death a separation of the soul from the body or is it the end of life, a permanent cessation, and the grave is our home until we are resurrected?
John 3:15-16 Without the belief in Jesus we will perish the Greek word apollumi means destroy utterly, to put out of the way entirely, abolish as in Psalms 37:10Psalms 92:7Proverbs 10:28-29Job 20:4-7Malachi 4:1-32 Peter 2:12.
Matthew 10:28 we are to fear the one who can destroy the body and the soul in hell, the Greek word for destroy is apollumi same as perish, a permanent/absolute destruction. Hell, the Greek word is geenna the fire and smoke that goes up and burns forever that never goes out is a reference to the lake of fire. Job 17:13 the Hebrew word sheol is the same word translated as hell. Job 17:16 the word pit is the same Hebrew word.
Our first death is sleep, Psalms 13:3Daniel 12:2Acts 13:361 Cor. 15:51. If all souls are immortal which means they have eternal life, the question must be asked, what is the gift of eternal life we see in John 3:15John 6:54Romans 6:23Titus 1:21 John 2:25Jude 1:21? If our soul is immortal, why do we have to put immortality on as said in 1 Corinthians 15:51-58?
I agree with you, and you are not alone. My understanding, the soul is a living being human or animal. We see this first in Genesis 1:20 the word creature is the Hebrew word nephesh meaning a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, and emotion. Genesis 2:7 By the breath of life Adam became a living soul, not given a soul.
The breath of life is our spirit given to us by God for when this breath leaves us, we are a dead soul, asleep. This breath, our spirit is what goes back to God, every man or woman regardless of faith, Ecclesiastes 12:7. In Scripture the dead are in the grave, not in heaven or hell and it is called sleep, Deuteronomy 31:16Job 17:13-16 and many more.
We have an earnest of the Spirit a downpayment, we are sealed, so, we are sealed until when? Until redemption, 2 Corinthians 1:21-22Ephesians 4:301 Corinthians 15:51-55, resurrection for those elects, chosen, and faithful we see in Rev 17:14 and Rev. 20:4-6. This is when we will be absent from this mortal body and be with the Lord.
The soul is who we are, and our conscience is the recorder of our life that is in the books that are open for the rest of the dead not in the first resurrection, Rev. 20:11-15, The ones written in the book of life will receive their glorified bodies and the rest will be cast into the lake of fire.
My understanding from my studies is the immortal soul and the meaning of death being a separation of the soul from the body does not come from scripture it comes from the Greek philosophers Socrates, 400 BC, Plato, and Aristotle. Later Augustine 354-430 AD adopted it, teaching death meant the destruction of the body, but the conscious soul would continue to live in either a blissful state with God or an agonizing state of separation from God.
Just a little, if the soul, that is who we are is immortal, that means death does not exist.
Thanks, brother, I hope you did not take Greek Philosophy personally. I understand the Hebrew word nephesh, it can be any being, dog, cat, or cow. It can also mean a soul, a living being, a dead being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, and emotion, basically who we are. When I said the spirit of life, I did not mean it had anything to do with the Spirit of God, sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant spirit/breath as the word neshamah used in Job 27:3.
I understand our being or soul is the same thing it is who we are and who will someday be with Jesus and see God's face. But that day is the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30. In Scripture in death there is no remembrance of us, Psalm 6:5. In death we lie down until, Job 14:12-14 the grave is our house and our bed Job 17:13-16.
We will see death and the grave and our soul will be there Psalm 89:48 and this Ecclesiastes 9:5-10. I know our understanding may be different, but I do not see in Scripture where we or any part of us is immortal until resurrection day 1 Cor. 15:52-53 we will be raised from the grave, us, our soul/being, who we are.
The definition of death is the separation of the soul from the body I do not see in Scripture. It does say there is no knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, death, Ecclesiastes 9:10. I do not see that has changed. I know many understand as you and I hope you take this as just a little of where my understanding comes from, for it does not affect salvation.
The way I see it, we are waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with His reward of eternal life, either we will be alive or asleep in the grave.
My understanding is like Adam's, just to add to what Adam said. You should study on your own, there are different views.
The belief that our soul is immortal comes from ancient Greek philosophy. The meaning of death, being a separation of the soul from the body also came from ancient Greek philosophy that is different than what we see in the Old Testament.
It is Platonism, Augustine of Hippo held this philosophy. He was a theologian, and philosopher with a strong influence on doctrines in the church, in the fourth and early fifth century.
Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. The spirit/breath gives us life.
The Hebrew word nephesh means a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, and emotion. The Greek word psuche means the soul, life, self, and a person's distinct identity. If you study them, it is also used for all living beings' fish, animals, birds, and man.
Physically we live AND die, eternally we live OR die, our choice of the gift of God that is through Jesus Christ our Lord, eternal life, or die the second death.
The word spirit, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ruach meaning breath, wind, spirit, or the Greek word pneuma also meaning wind, breath, spirit, this life-giving breath/spirit is what goes back to God.
We are buried dead, mortal, in corruption and we are raised immortally incorruptible 1 Corinthians 15:42-44. That is when we will be absent from this flesh body.
All consciousness ends when we die. Psalm 6:5Job 14:12-14Job 17:13-16 Psalm 89:48Psalm 115:17Ecclesiastes 9:5-10
We sleep in death until resurrection day, the day of redemption. 1 Corinthians 15:51-54Ephesians 4:30
Our spirit (breath) given to us by God is what keeps us alive, and we are a living soul. Ecclesiastes 12:7Psalm 104:29Psalm 146:4James 2:26
Scripture describes death as sleep and the grave/hell is our home until Jesus returns and releases us from the pains of death, Acts 2:24, and the hope we have, Rom. 8:11. We see in Psalm 6:5Job 14:12-14Job 17:13-16. When a person dies, he "lies down" in death and does not arise out of that sleep until his regeneration at the resurrection. Psalm 89:48Psalm 115:17Ecclesiastes 9:5-10.
Jesus said this referring to eternal life, Matthew 16:26. Sory for being wordy but I hope this sort of explains my understanding. If our soul is immortal, Luke 16 is a real story, I believe scripture is clear, our soul is us and is mortal, there would be nothing to resurrect. Where would be victory over the grave and death? 1 Cor. 15:54-551 Cor. 15:14.
Jesus's soul along with his body was as He said of Jonah/Jonas, Matt. 12"40. In Acts 2:22-35 Jesus was not left in Hell and did not see corruption, in vs. 24 God loosed the pains of death because Jesus was sinless, and death had to let go.
1 Peter 3:18-20 is hard, we have spirits in prison who were disobedient in the days of Noah, and the waters of the flood compared to the baptizing waters saving not washing away the filth of the flesh but for the conscience toward God. Our conscience, our hard drive our testimony, 2 Cor.1:12 tells us with the help of the Holy Spirit if we are good to go and it is pure.
There is no clear indication of when Jesus did this so to say it was when He was in the tomb would be just an opinion.
Spirits in prison from Noah's time building the ark? Why that time and not all the time up to His resurrection? I may be wrong, but I do not know of the dead being called spirits and being in prison, but the angels who left their first estate are locked in chains of darkness. Revelation gives another look at what that prison may be. This one will be full of opinions that would need setting at a table discussion, so I will leave this one to your understanding.
It will be hard to find, the closest you will get is a parable in Luke 16. If you read the chapter and the context it is against the love of money and wealth. When Jesus first came the Greek influence was widespread many were Hellenized.
When our spirit leaves our body and goes to intermediate heaven does not come from scripture, it comes from Plato. His definition of death is the separation of the soul from the body. Hades the Underworld where the dead went, a subterranean region, the world of the dead where all souls passed after their time on earth, Elysium was paradise.
If you look for scripture you will find sleep in the earth until the resurrection, Job 7:21Job 14:12-14Job 17:13-16 Psalm 89:48Psalm 115:17Daniel 12:2Ecclesiastes 9:10
Death is something we all will face; many believe our body dies and our soul lives on. Is our soul immortal? Can we take 2 Corinthians 5:8 when we die our soul leaves our body and we are present with the Lord? Some define death as a separation of the soul from the body. Does that come from scripture? I have not found that in scripture.
It comes from Greek philosophy of Plato. He wrote the body is a prison for the soul and viewed death as the means of freedom for the soul. The philosophy of death started blending in the church in the second century and those good souls go to heaven and the bad goes to hell and more. Many see the parable in Luke 16:19-31 as fitting this. If you read the chapter Jesus is talking about the unrighteous love mammon and neglect the true riches.
My understanding from scripture every part of us is mortal and when we die, we sleep in the dust, Job 14:12-14, Job 17:13-16, Ecclesiastes 9:5-10 until resurrection. When this mortal puts on immortality 1 Corinthians 15:52-58, and we will be absent from this flesh body. Then those that are Christs will be judged and receive our rewards. Matthew 16:27, Revelation 22:12 that is our hope, 1 Thessalonians 2:19
We will sleep in the dust, Daniel 12:2, 1Theselonians 4:14 and this is not from heaven, it is from around the world to meet Jesus in the air coming down to Israel the start the 1000 years at His coming. Matthew 24:31Zechariah 14:4.
I am sure you will get different replies on this, my understanding is close to what is in your post. Soul and spirit are two different words but seem to think of being the same and are hard to separate in our mind. What happens to these when we die there are different understandings, does the soul sleep in the earth with the body, or is it immortal and go to two different places?
The word soul in Hebrew is nephesh meaning a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion. The Greek word psuche meaning the soul, life, self, a person's distinct identity.
The word spirit, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ruach meaning breath, wind, spirit, or the Greek word pneuma also meaning wind, breath, spirit, when writing about the spirit.
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The spirit goes back to God Ecclesiastes 12:7
The Holy Spirit seals us until when? Ephesians 4:30
We are buried mortal, dead, in corruption and we are raised immortal incorruptible 1 Corinthians 15:42-44
All consciousness ends when we die. Psalm 6:5Job 14:12-14Job 17:13-16 Psalm 89:48Psalm 115:17Ecclesiastes 9:5-10
We sleep in the dust until resurrection day, the day of redemption. 1 Corinthians 15:511 Thessalonians 4:141 Corinthians 15:52-54
God raised Jesus from the dead after three days and three nights, so, Romans 8:1 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Have not found any scripture that says we or our soul or spirit is immortal, may someone else provide it if it is in the bible.
Brother Chris, the wages of sin is death and the grave. Our sin, most of which, is unbelief, causes death, and when we are dead we cannot bring glory to our creator. Christ died and was resurrected to restore this condition. Christ overcomes sin in our lives, therefore at some point in time, death will be destroyed. Those called out in this age are coming to this knowledge. Those not called out in this age will be resurrected back to their flesh and brought to truth.
Luke 16:26 The gulf that can't be passed over is death and the grave, locked in prison.
Matthew 5:25-26 In this scripture our (flesh) is the adversary to God (Spirit) if we don't agree with Him, he delivers us to the judge (Christ, the words and chastisement), if we still don't agree, he delivers us to the officer (death) and cast us into prison (grave).
Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan (flesh) shall be loosed out of prison (death and the grave), the gulf that couldn't be crossed.
Christ has the keys to death and the grave. His resurrection unlocked and destroyed death and the grave, we are restored to Sons of God. ( Job 38:7)( Revelation 22:16)
Job 17:13-16
Chris, for fifty plus years, I was taught and BELIEVED in a Literal place called heaven and a Literal place called hell.
God stopped me dead in my tracks and isolated me for five plus years with his word and his Spirit, and taught me what the Kingdom of God actually is. It not a place, it's a person, Sons of God, like Christ himself.
All of creation are brothers and sisters, of an in CHRIST, and at God's appointed time, each and everyone with be delivered, By CHRIST, into the Kingdom of God.
Adam was a flesh-and-blood human being, so like us, his body was subject to wearing out, and one day his heart would stop, and the breath of life (spirit) would return back to God. Adam like us was not created immortal, he needed to eat of the Tree of Life to live forever, that is why it was hidden.
After Adam sinned it was a spiritual death not a physical death, the dwelling place for God in man, Satan's deception, physical life goes on after sin. Now we are under the judgment of condemnation and only by the grace of God and the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ we are free from this judgment.
Jesus came and lived in the flesh and died and was resurrected so we could be redeemed from this state of death, giving us the opportunity of eternal life. Did Jesus return to heaven when He died? Jesus did not ascend to His Father until after He resurrected ( John 20:17).
The belief in our soul is immortal comes from ancient Greek philosophy, developed especially by two of the chief Greek philosophers, Plato and Socrates. The meaning of death, being a separation of the soul from the body also came from ancient Greek philosophy. This immortal soul and the meaning of death has been taught for so long it is not questioned today.
It is Platonism, Augustine of Hippo made a saint, held this philosophy. He was a theologian, philosopher with a strong influence on doctrines in the church, in the fourth and early fifth century.
We are buried mortal, dead, in corruption and we are raised immortally incorruptible ( 1 Corinthians 15:42-44)
All consciousness ends when we die. ( Psalm 6:5) ( Job 14:12-14) ( Job 17:13-16) ( Psalm 89:48) ( Psalm 115:17) ( Ecclesiastes 9:5-10)
We sleep in death until resurrection day, the day of redemption. ( 1 Corinthians 15:51) ( 1 Thessalonians 4:14). ( 1 Corinthians 15:52-54)
Many have different views on this and some defend them fiercely and interpret scripture to fit those views. This is not a salvation question so here are some things you may study for your own conscience; we all will face the death of this fleshly body and how you decide to face it is up to you. ( Psalm 6:5) ( Job 14:12-14) ( Job 17:13-16) ( Psalm 89:48) ( Psalm 115:17) ( Ecclesiastes 9:5-10)
There is a verse in ( 1 Timothy 4:7) to keep in mind, the actual Greek word used by Paul in this verse was "mythous", from which the English words myth and mythology come. In the actual Greek text of this verse, Paul further characterizes these fables as profane "bebelous". The King James Version of the Bible renders as "profane and old wives' tales".
Does scripture without man's interpretation back up a belief? ( Luke 16:19-31) is taught that we go to heaven or hell when we die. Questions to ask; What is the context of this chapter? Is this a parable or a reality? Is it backed up by other scripture or does it line up with Greek mythology?
What is our spirit? ( Psalm 104:29) ( Ecclesiastes 12:7) ( James 2:26). Spirit meaning wind, breath, spirit. When are we absent from our bodies? If we go to heaven when we die what is the meaning of ( 1 Corinthians 15:52-58)?
My personal understanding what scripture says is our spirit is our breath, and when we die it goes back to God who gave it, and our communication through the Holy Spirit stops until the resurrection,(sleep in Christ). And we being saved in Christ with the down payment/seal given by the Holy Spirit will be raised incorruptible in our new body and then we are absent from this fleshly body. But it is what you decide.
Amadeus, I don't believe that Job 17:12 actually says that, with due regard to your Father's understanding. When I study that verse, indeed the book of Job, I see a suffering man in every sense of the word. And to add insult to injury, his 'friends' often gave him atrocious advice & were of little comfort to him.
So this verse is a small part of Job's appointment to continual suffering. In verse 11, he dismayed about the days given to him, even his thoughts & ambitions for the future, were in pieces. So in verse 12, I believe he intimates that his 'friends' added to his troubling thoughts, that kept him up all night ("turned night into day"), even his daylight hours were like darkness because of the darkness in his mind ("light is short because of darkness."). Then as you read on, his hopelessness is exacerbated, as he thinks of his nearness to death.
If I should use a verse to describe what you've said, I could refer you to Proverbs 6:6-11. These verses speak about the Sluggard whose laziness takes him through the night into the next day, thereby assuring him of poverty. The Ant is cited as a creature that has more sense & work ethic than a lazy man. But if you're seeking a Scripture for people who need to stay up at night (e.g. medical staff, security, warehousing, etc.), then there is nothing in the Word, nor is there anything to suggest that reversing the order (i.e. sleep in the day & be awake at night) is wrong. Sometimes, this is necessary.
I'm retired; worked 46 years. I sleep when I need to. Past months I've been child sitting for free. As soon as I can, I come here. You make time for need to's and time for love to's. I've had a theory for years that if you sit too much, your backside rebels and moves to the frontside. Also if you listen to Psalms music you won't need chemicals to relax.
The only reason to watch Dr Phil is to see how much family's lose by not following Jesus. Jesus will fill in all the cracks and holes and set you on your feet. If home is a war zone, get your own place. I'm famous for pinching pennies till they cry. You can do it. Give your time to God and He will bless you abundantly. I pray right now that Jesus would love you and make himself real and approachable to YOU! Amen
My father quotes Job 17:12 quite often, citing that it refers to people who stay up at night and sleep during the day, thereby reversing the normal order of things (sleep during the night, awake during the day), insinuating that somehow tampering with this order is "wrong".
How can we accurately understand the true meaning of this verse in its proper context?
Being in service to the Lord won't always be filled with happy days. Job suffered so greatly and lost all his friends to the Lord's cause. Of course, it was all according to His plan. Job lost people that didn't really believe in him and ended up mocking him. Nevertheless Job is human, and we struggle to hold out our faith in God because of the trials we're put through, and that's okay. It's okay to doubt as long as we still remain on our course.
This tells us that as humans, we have our weakness is times of trail, we are bound to feel down and out, but we should find encouragement in the Lordship of God almight, that He knows all things. Thanks to the encouragements and reprove from the Good friends he kept.
Job was suffering through a terrible calamity brought upon him; he thought that by serving God and live a righteous life both him and his family would be saved. when all the catastrophe happened to him, he begin to feel wretched and so he turns everything that 's happened to him onto himself, cursing himself and the day that he was born. Throughout all this, he still revered God, still trust him.
I think it is very similar to Philippians 1:6. A true believer who knows that he is eternally secure realizes that no matter what takes place in his life that includes good things and will certainly include bad and tragic things, the Holy Spirit will continue to work in his life to conform him to the image of Jesus Christ.
Job 17:9,Simple means he who is righteous and having clean hands is always confident in the midst challenges and difficulties because his heart is at peace. He has the assurance that Jesus is the anchor of his/her hope so nothing absolutely nothing can move him. He is focus in life and always abide in the perfect will of God. Keeps moving forward despite the obstacles and setbacks
Part 1
If I may add a few points to this subject, I know we have different understandings on this and I hope you will not be offended, these are questions I have asked myself. What does Scripture support, our soul is an immortal entity that consciously lives on after the death of the body or does it sleep in the grave until the resurrection? Is the definition of death a separation of the soul from the body or is it the end of life, a permanent cessation, and the grave is our home until we are resurrected?
John 3:15-16 Without the belief in Jesus we will perish the Greek word apollumi means destroy utterly, to put out of the way entirely, abolish as in Psalms 37:10 Psalms 92:7 Proverbs 10:28-29 Job 20:4-7 Malachi 4:1-3 2 Peter 2:12.
Matthew 10:28 we are to fear the one who can destroy the body and the soul in hell, the Greek word for destroy is apollumi same as perish, a permanent/absolute destruction. Hell, the Greek word is geenna the fire and smoke that goes up and burns forever that never goes out is a reference to the lake of fire. Job 17:13 the Hebrew word sheol is the same word translated as hell. Job 17:16 the word pit is the same Hebrew word.
Our first death is sleep, Psalms 13:3 Daniel 12:2 Acts 13:36 1 Cor. 15:51. If all souls are immortal which means they have eternal life, the question must be asked, what is the gift of eternal life we see in John 3:15 John 6:54 Romans 6:23 Titus 1:2 1 John 2:25 Jude 1:21? If our soul is immortal, why do we have to put immortality on as said in 1 Corinthians 15:51-58?
See part 2
I agree with you, and you are not alone. My understanding, the soul is a living being human or animal. We see this first in Genesis 1:20 the word creature is the Hebrew word nephesh meaning a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, and emotion. Genesis 2:7 By the breath of life Adam became a living soul, not given a soul.
The breath of life is our spirit given to us by God for when this breath leaves us, we are a dead soul, asleep. This breath, our spirit is what goes back to God, every man or woman regardless of faith, Ecclesiastes 12:7. In Scripture the dead are in the grave, not in heaven or hell and it is called sleep, Deuteronomy 31:16 Job 17:13-16 and many more.
We have an earnest of the Spirit a downpayment, we are sealed, so, we are sealed until when? Until redemption, 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Ephesians 4:30 1 Corinthians 15:51-55, resurrection for those elects, chosen, and faithful we see in Rev 17:14 and Rev. 20:4-6. This is when we will be absent from this mortal body and be with the Lord.
The soul is who we are, and our conscience is the recorder of our life that is in the books that are open for the rest of the dead not in the first resurrection, Rev. 20:11-15, The ones written in the book of life will receive their glorified bodies and the rest will be cast into the lake of fire.
My understanding from my studies is the immortal soul and the meaning of death being a separation of the soul from the body does not come from scripture it comes from the Greek philosophers Socrates, 400 BC, Plato, and Aristotle. Later Augustine 354-430 AD adopted it, teaching death meant the destruction of the body, but the conscious soul would continue to live in either a blissful state with God or an agonizing state of separation from God.
Just a little, if the soul, that is who we are is immortal, that means death does not exist.
God bless,
RLW
Thanks, brother, I hope you did not take Greek Philosophy personally. I understand the Hebrew word nephesh, it can be any being, dog, cat, or cow. It can also mean a soul, a living being, a dead being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, and emotion, basically who we are. When I said the spirit of life, I did not mean it had anything to do with the Spirit of God, sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant spirit/breath as the word neshamah used in Job 27:3.
I understand our being or soul is the same thing it is who we are and who will someday be with Jesus and see God's face. But that day is the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30. In Scripture in death there is no remembrance of us, Psalm 6:5. In death we lie down until, Job 14:12-14 the grave is our house and our bed Job 17:13-16.
We will see death and the grave and our soul will be there Psalm 89:48 and this Ecclesiastes 9:5-10. I know our understanding may be different, but I do not see in Scripture where we or any part of us is immortal until resurrection day 1 Cor. 15:52-53 we will be raised from the grave, us, our soul/being, who we are.
The definition of death is the separation of the soul from the body I do not see in Scripture. It does say there is no knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, death, Ecclesiastes 9:10. I do not see that has changed. I know many understand as you and I hope you take this as just a little of where my understanding comes from, for it does not affect salvation.
The way I see it, we are waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with His reward of eternal life, either we will be alive or asleep in the grave.
God bless,
RLW
My understanding is like Adam's, just to add to what Adam said. You should study on your own, there are different views.
The belief that our soul is immortal comes from ancient Greek philosophy. The meaning of death, being a separation of the soul from the body also came from ancient Greek philosophy that is different than what we see in the Old Testament.
It is Platonism, Augustine of Hippo held this philosophy. He was a theologian, and philosopher with a strong influence on doctrines in the church, in the fourth and early fifth century.
Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. The spirit/breath gives us life.
The Hebrew word nephesh means a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, and emotion. The Greek word psuche means the soul, life, self, and a person's distinct identity. If you study them, it is also used for all living beings' fish, animals, birds, and man.
Physically we live AND die, eternally we live OR die, our choice of the gift of God that is through Jesus Christ our Lord, eternal life, or die the second death.
The word spirit, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ruach meaning breath, wind, spirit, or the Greek word pneuma also meaning wind, breath, spirit, this life-giving breath/spirit is what goes back to God.
We are buried dead, mortal, in corruption and we are raised immortally incorruptible 1 Corinthians 15:42-44. That is when we will be absent from this flesh body.
All consciousness ends when we die. Psalm 6:5 Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16 Psalm 89:48 Psalm 115:17 Ecclesiastes 9:5-10
We sleep in death until resurrection day, the day of redemption. 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 Ephesians 4:30
Our spirit (breath) given to us by God is what keeps us alive, and we are a living soul. Ecclesiastes 12:7 Psalm 104:29 Psalm 146:4 James 2:26
May this help your study.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2
Scripture describes death as sleep and the grave/hell is our home until Jesus returns and releases us from the pains of death, Acts 2:24, and the hope we have, Rom. 8:11. We see in Psalm 6:5 Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16. When a person dies, he "lies down" in death and does not arise out of that sleep until his regeneration at the resurrection. Psalm 89:48 Psalm 115:17 Ecclesiastes 9:5-10.
Jesus said this referring to eternal life, Matthew 16:26. Sory for being wordy but I hope this sort of explains my understanding. If our soul is immortal, Luke 16 is a real story, I believe scripture is clear, our soul is us and is mortal, there would be nothing to resurrect. Where would be victory over the grave and death? 1 Cor. 15:54-55 1 Cor. 15:14.
Jesus's soul along with his body was as He said of Jonah/Jonas, Matt. 12"40. In Acts 2:22-35 Jesus was not left in Hell and did not see corruption, in vs. 24 God loosed the pains of death because Jesus was sinless, and death had to let go.
1 Peter 3:18-20 is hard, we have spirits in prison who were disobedient in the days of Noah, and the waters of the flood compared to the baptizing waters saving not washing away the filth of the flesh but for the conscience toward God. Our conscience, our hard drive our testimony, 2 Cor.1:12 tells us with the help of the Holy Spirit if we are good to go and it is pure.
There is no clear indication of when Jesus did this so to say it was when He was in the tomb would be just an opinion.
Spirits in prison from Noah's time building the ark? Why that time and not all the time up to His resurrection? I may be wrong, but I do not know of the dead being called spirits and being in prison, but the angels who left their first estate are locked in chains of darkness. Revelation gives another look at what that prison may be. This one will be full of opinions that would need setting at a table discussion, so I will leave this one to your understanding.
See part 3
There are many different beliefs amongs christians about the Baptism of the Holly Spirit.
The ones i am aware of are the following.
1. When one believes in Jesus.
2. When one is born again by God.
3. When one is baptised in water.
4. When one asks God for receiving the Holly Spirit.
and maybe 5. When a minister lays hands on a believer. For some this can be included in case no. 4.
It is a topic we should talk about sometime here on this site.
"Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his"
Acts 8:15-17 seems to suggest that it is possible
to believe and not have the Spirit?
So how does one:
a.determine whether this critical status has been achieved?
b.And if it is pending, what is the mechanism for the attainment of that status?
It will be hard to find, the closest you will get is a parable in Luke 16. If you read the chapter and the context it is against the love of money and wealth. When Jesus first came the Greek influence was widespread many were Hellenized.
When our spirit leaves our body and goes to intermediate heaven does not come from scripture, it comes from Plato. His definition of death is the separation of the soul from the body. Hades the Underworld where the dead went, a subterranean region, the world of the dead where all souls passed after their time on earth, Elysium was paradise.
If you look for scripture you will find sleep in the earth until the resurrection, Job 7:21 Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16 Psalm 89:48 Psalm 115:17 Daniel 12:2 Ecclesiastes 9:10
God bless,
RLW
Death is something we all will face; many believe our body dies and our soul lives on. Is our soul immortal? Can we take 2 Corinthians 5:8 when we die our soul leaves our body and we are present with the Lord? Some define death as a separation of the soul from the body. Does that come from scripture? I have not found that in scripture.
It comes from Greek philosophy of Plato. He wrote the body is a prison for the soul and viewed death as the means of freedom for the soul. The philosophy of death started blending in the church in the second century and those good souls go to heaven and the bad goes to hell and more. Many see the parable in Luke 16:19-31 as fitting this. If you read the chapter Jesus is talking about the unrighteous love mammon and neglect the true riches.
My understanding from scripture every part of us is mortal and when we die, we sleep in the dust, Job 14:12-14, Job 17:13-16, Ecclesiastes 9:5-10 until resurrection. When this mortal puts on immortality 1 Corinthians 15:52-58, and we will be absent from this flesh body. Then those that are Christs will be judged and receive our rewards. Matthew 16:27, Revelation 22:12 that is our hope, 1 Thessalonians 2:19
We will sleep in the dust, Daniel 12:2, 1Theselonians 4:14 and this is not from heaven, it is from around the world to meet Jesus in the air coming down to Israel the start the 1000 years at His coming. Matthew 24:31 Zechariah 14:4.
This is my understanding of scripture.
God bless,
RLW
I am sure you will get different replies on this, my understanding is close to what is in your post. Soul and spirit are two different words but seem to think of being the same and are hard to separate in our mind. What happens to these when we die there are different understandings, does the soul sleep in the earth with the body, or is it immortal and go to two different places?
The word soul in Hebrew is nephesh meaning a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion. The Greek word psuche meaning the soul, life, self, a person's distinct identity.
The word spirit, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ruach meaning breath, wind, spirit, or the Greek word pneuma also meaning wind, breath, spirit, when writing about the spirit.
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The spirit goes back to God Ecclesiastes 12:7
The Holy Spirit seals us until when? Ephesians 4:30
We are buried mortal, dead, in corruption and we are raised immortal incorruptible 1 Corinthians 15:42-44
All consciousness ends when we die. Psalm 6:5 Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16 Psalm 89:48 Psalm 115:17 Ecclesiastes 9:5-10
We sleep in the dust until resurrection day, the day of redemption. 1 Corinthians 15:51 1 Thessalonians 4:14 1 Corinthians 15:52-54
God raised Jesus from the dead after three days and three nights, so, Romans 8:1 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Have not found any scripture that says we or our soul or spirit is immortal, may someone else provide it if it is in the bible.
God bless,
RLW
Luke 16:26 The gulf that can't be passed over is death and the grave, locked in prison.
Matthew 5:25-26 In this scripture our (flesh) is the adversary to God (Spirit) if we don't agree with Him, he delivers us to the judge (Christ, the words and chastisement), if we still don't agree, he delivers us to the officer (death) and cast us into prison (grave).
Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan (flesh) shall be loosed out of prison (death and the grave), the gulf that couldn't be crossed.
Christ has the keys to death and the grave. His resurrection unlocked and destroyed death and the grave, we are restored to Sons of God. ( Job 38:7)( Revelation 22:16)
Job 17:13-16
Chris, for fifty plus years, I was taught and BELIEVED in a Literal place called heaven and a Literal place called hell.
God stopped me dead in my tracks and isolated me for five plus years with his word and his Spirit, and taught me what the Kingdom of God actually is. It not a place, it's a person, Sons of God, like Christ himself.
All of creation are brothers and sisters, of an in CHRIST, and at God's appointed time, each and everyone with be delivered, By CHRIST, into the Kingdom of God.
Job 17:13 If I wait, the GRAVE (Heb. sheol) is mine house, I have made MY BED in the darkness.
Psalms 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, You are there: if I make MY BED in HELL (Heb. sheol) behold, You are there.
Same Hebrew word (sheol); YET Job makes his bed in the GRAVE, but King David makes his bed in HELL.
Do you not see a contradiction in the single word, sheol, being TRANSLATED having two different meanings, when they should mean the same thing.
Would you say both should have been translated GRAVE, or do you think both should have been translated HELL.
You will find the same thing in the New Testament, the Greek word, Hades, translated one half of the time GRAVE and one half the time HELL.
No wonder man is deceived.
God bless you.
Adam was a flesh-and-blood human being, so like us, his body was subject to wearing out, and one day his heart would stop, and the breath of life (spirit) would return back to God. Adam like us was not created immortal, he needed to eat of the Tree of Life to live forever, that is why it was hidden.
After Adam sinned it was a spiritual death not a physical death, the dwelling place for God in man, Satan's deception, physical life goes on after sin. Now we are under the judgment of condemnation and only by the grace of God and the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ we are free from this judgment.
Jesus came and lived in the flesh and died and was resurrected so we could be redeemed from this state of death, giving us the opportunity of eternal life. Did Jesus return to heaven when He died? Jesus did not ascend to His Father until after He resurrected ( John 20:17).
The belief in our soul is immortal comes from ancient Greek philosophy, developed especially by two of the chief Greek philosophers, Plato and Socrates. The meaning of death, being a separation of the soul from the body also came from ancient Greek philosophy. This immortal soul and the meaning of death has been taught for so long it is not questioned today.
It is Platonism, Augustine of Hippo made a saint, held this philosophy. He was a theologian, philosopher with a strong influence on doctrines in the church, in the fourth and early fifth century.
We are buried mortal, dead, in corruption and we are raised immortally incorruptible ( 1 Corinthians 15:42-44)
All consciousness ends when we die. ( Psalm 6:5) ( Job 14:12-14) ( Job 17:13-16) ( Psalm 89:48) ( Psalm 115:17) ( Ecclesiastes 9:5-10)
We sleep in death until resurrection day, the day of redemption. ( 1 Corinthians 15:51) ( 1 Thessalonians 4:14). ( 1 Corinthians 15:52-54)
RLW
Many have different views on this and some defend them fiercely and interpret scripture to fit those views. This is not a salvation question so here are some things you may study for your own conscience; we all will face the death of this fleshly body and how you decide to face it is up to you. ( Psalm 6:5) ( Job 14:12-14) ( Job 17:13-16) ( Psalm 89:48) ( Psalm 115:17) ( Ecclesiastes 9:5-10)
There is a verse in ( 1 Timothy 4:7) to keep in mind, the actual Greek word used by Paul in this verse was "mythous", from which the English words myth and mythology come. In the actual Greek text of this verse, Paul further characterizes these fables as profane "bebelous". The King James Version of the Bible renders as "profane and old wives' tales".
Does scripture without man's interpretation back up a belief? ( Luke 16:19-31) is taught that we go to heaven or hell when we die. Questions to ask; What is the context of this chapter? Is this a parable or a reality? Is it backed up by other scripture or does it line up with Greek mythology?
What is our spirit? ( Psalm 104:29) ( Ecclesiastes 12:7) ( James 2:26). Spirit meaning wind, breath, spirit. When are we absent from our bodies? If we go to heaven when we die what is the meaning of ( 1 Corinthians 15:52-58)?
My personal understanding what scripture says is our spirit is our breath, and when we die it goes back to God who gave it, and our communication through the Holy Spirit stops until the resurrection,(sleep in Christ). And we being saved in Christ with the down payment/seal given by the Holy Spirit will be raised incorruptible in our new body and then we are absent from this fleshly body. But it is what you decide.
God bless.
RLW
Why does the KJV translate the last half of Job 17:6 in the past tense, but, other translations in the present?
If you use the past tense, then, Job is referring to how the people previously viewed and treated him.
If you use the present tense, then, it seems that Job is referring to how they treat him now.
Which is correct?
Thank you.
So this verse is a small part of Job's appointment to continual suffering. In verse 11, he dismayed about the days given to him, even his thoughts & ambitions for the future, were in pieces. So in verse 12, I believe he intimates that his 'friends' added to his troubling thoughts, that kept him up all night ("turned night into day"), even his daylight hours were like darkness because of the darkness in his mind ("light is short because of darkness."). Then as you read on, his hopelessness is exacerbated, as he thinks of his nearness to death.
If I should use a verse to describe what you've said, I could refer you to Proverbs 6:6-11. These verses speak about the Sluggard whose laziness takes him through the night into the next day, thereby assuring him of poverty. The Ant is cited as a creature that has more sense & work ethic than a lazy man. But if you're seeking a Scripture for people who need to stay up at night (e.g. medical staff, security, warehousing, etc.), then there is nothing in the Word, nor is there anything to suggest that reversing the order (i.e. sleep in the day & be awake at night) is wrong. Sometimes, this is necessary.
The only reason to watch Dr Phil is to see how much family's lose by not following Jesus. Jesus will fill in all the cracks and holes and set you on your feet. If home is a war zone, get your own place. I'm famous for pinching pennies till they cry. You can do it. Give your time to God and He will bless you abundantly. I pray right now that Jesus would love you and make himself real and approachable to YOU! Amen
How can we accurately understand the true meaning of this verse in its proper context?
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