JRay, Suffering is not normal. when Jehovah ( psalm 83:18) created the earth,
his motives was for man and woman to take care of the earth. to enjoy his
creation, to take care of the animals. to enjoy the richness that the earth provided.
he created the ground to give in abundance, so that poverty was impossible. God
started the earth in the garden of Eden. Jehovah and the heavens was his the main
authority to mankind according to Genesis 1,2. there were no kings, rulers in the beginning.
But this happened to mankind: Genesis 3; Genesis 6; Genesis 19; Job 1,2; Luke 4:1-13
it just getting worse and worse. 2Timothy 3:1-7
It's a heavenly war, and a invisible war ( Revelation 12:7-13) we humans may not understand but God has revealed it to us in human terms. although the innocent are dying because of 1 John 5:19. WE KEEP THE HOPE AS GOD WANTS US TO: Romans 15:4-6; Revelation 21:3-5
We continue in the hope. Job 14:14
IF YOU READ ALL THESE SCRIPTURES YOU WILL SEE WHY MANKIND ARE SUFFERING.
Thanks for your reply. You have a better knowledge of Greek than I do, what I see is today, the Greek word , smeron, meaning today, this day, this very day. I think the word today is correct it is how we read the sentence and how it fits with what the thief said and when will he be in paradise, and if paradise is part of Hades or the new earth when it is all fulfilled.
Heb. 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: What do we understand the meaning to die/death? Platonism says it is a separation of the soul from the body and the souls go to Hades. If the soul is immortal what is appointed to die?
Luke 16:19-31. Was this a real story or is this a parable He told to people mainly the Pharisees? If we take it as reality, they were judged at death because Lazarus went to Abraham's bosom, and the rich man went to a fiery place of torture. Does scripture support that? Dan. 12:2Matt. 25:31-34John 5:28-29Rev. 20:11-15.
The rich man was aware of where he was and talking and seems they have a body, asking for Lazarus to wet his finger and cool his tongue. Does scripture say we are awake in death? Job 14:10-12 Ecc. 9:5-6. The context of this chapter is the love of money, and stewardship, Jesus was addressing this to the Pharisees, "No servant can serve two masters".
Eph. 4 I know some understand this to mean that when Jesus ascended into heaven, he led a host of captives who ascended into heaven with him. But in Acts 2:29-34 David is still in his grave and has not ascended, would David be left? John 3:13. Does this show Jesus ascended alone?
I will leave it there, I guess it comes down to if we believe our soul is immortal which influences how we understand the scripture. Just some other thoughts, like you said there are probably more understandings. Thanks again.
My understanding is like Adam's, just to add to what Adam said. You should study on your own, there are different views.
The belief that our soul is immortal comes from ancient Greek philosophy. The meaning of death, being a separation of the soul from the body also came from ancient Greek philosophy that is different than what we see in the Old Testament.
It is Platonism, Augustine of Hippo held this philosophy. He was a theologian, and philosopher with a strong influence on doctrines in the church, in the fourth and early fifth century.
Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. The spirit/breath gives us life.
The Hebrew word nephesh means a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, and emotion. The Greek word psuche means the soul, life, self, and a person's distinct identity. If you study them, it is also used for all living beings' fish, animals, birds, and man.
Physically we live AND die, eternally we live OR die, our choice of the gift of God that is through Jesus Christ our Lord, eternal life, or die the second death.
The word spirit, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ruach meaning breath, wind, spirit, or the Greek word pneuma also meaning wind, breath, spirit, this life-giving breath/spirit is what goes back to God.
We are buried dead, mortal, in corruption and we are raised immortally incorruptible 1 Corinthians 15:42-44. That is when we will be absent from this flesh body.
All consciousness ends when we die. Psalm 6:5Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16Psalm 89:48Psalm 115:17Ecclesiastes 9:5-10
We sleep in death until resurrection day, the day of redemption. 1 Corinthians 15:51-54Ephesians 4:30
Our spirit (breath) given to us by God is what keeps us alive, and we are a living soul. Ecclesiastes 12:7Psalm 104:29Psalm 146:4James 2:26
The Bible says we will sleep until Christ's return:
Daniel 12:2
Job 14:12
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Corinthians 15:18-20
Matthew 9:24
A common reason why people assume they go straight to heaven is misinterpreting 2 Cor 5:8-10. The misinterpretation has been repeated so much its become standard dogma to many well meaning Bible readers. But the only problem is the Bible doesn't say that. Paul only says he'd "rather" absent from the body and present with the Lord. The word Rather is a preference. He's not making a broad statement about the afterlife that 100% of the time, when 100% of all people die, that instantly you skip judgment and are immediately with the Lord 100% of the time.
Adding further support to this is Paul in the previous book in 1 Corinthians 5:3 already said he was "absent" from the body when he couldn't meet with the Corinthians in person. Based on the same wording used, I think people are extrapolating way too much from Paul's preferential (rather) statement while ignoring the verses that already say everyone will face judgment and all the sleeping until Christ returns, etc. I would find it hard to ignore 5 verses in favor of one "rather" statement that Paul already used before. Paul also preferred everyone remain single like him- so the inferences seem to be disproportionately applied.
The Bible says we will sleep until Jesus returns in the following verses and possibly more:
1 Cor 15:18-20
1 Thess 4:13-18
Job 14:12
Daniel 12:2
This scripture debunks what the other people are saying about people NOT sleeping to await Jesus. I believe what God says over what man says. Don't believe what I say either, but just look at God's truth and decide. But when I read these verses and pray about it its 100% clear what it means to me.
Those claiming immediate heaven may require ignoring these 4 verses and choosing only 2 scriptures and interpret them too broadly: (1) the one where Paul says he'd "rather" be with the Lord. Paul only states his preference. I prefer to be with the Lord too, but that doesn't automatically mean 100% of all people forever will skip judgement and be in heaven immediately. And (2) the verse about Jesus telling the criminal on this day he'll be in paradise doesn't automatically mean 100% of all people will have this, and doesn't invalidate the other 4 verses where it clearly says we'll "sleep" awaiting Jesus, and paradise is a different word than heaven and some think it might even be a place of waiting.
Suggest just following the scriptures and praying for wisdom and understanding rather than believing any unscriptural opinions. God bless.
The same topic is also discussed here and probably other places too:
Scripture describes death as sleep and the grave/hell is our home until Jesus returns and releases us from the pains of death, Acts 2:24, and the hope we have, Rom. 8:11. We see in Psalm 6:5Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16. When a person dies, he "lies down" in death and does not arise out of that sleep until his regeneration at the resurrection. Psalm 89:48Psalm 115:17Ecclesiastes 9:5-10.
Jesus said this referring to eternal life, Matthew 16:26. Sory for being wordy but I hope this sort of explains my understanding. If our soul is immortal, Luke 16 is a real story, I believe scripture is clear, our soul is us and is mortal, there would be nothing to resurrect. Where would be victory over the grave and death? 1 Cor. 15:54-551 Cor. 15:14.
Jesus's soul along with his body was as He said of Jonah/Jonas, Matt. 12"40. In Acts 2:22-35 Jesus was not left in Hell and did not see corruption, in vs. 24 God loosed the pains of death because Jesus was sinless, and death had to let go.
1 Peter 3:18-20 is hard, we have spirits in prison who were disobedient in the days of Noah, and the waters of the flood compared to the baptizing waters saving not washing away the filth of the flesh but for the conscience toward God. Our conscience, our hard drive our testimony, 2 Cor.1:12 tells us with the help of the Holy Spirit if we are good to go and it is pure.
There is no clear indication of when Jesus did this so to say it was when He was in the tomb would be just an opinion.
Spirits in prison from Noah's time building the ark? Why that time and not all the time up to His resurrection? I may be wrong, but I do not know of the dead being called spirits and being in prison, but the angels who left their first estate are locked in chains of darkness. Revelation gives another look at what that prison may be. This one will be full of opinions that would need setting at a table discussion, so I will leave this one to your understanding.
Hello, the Bible says when we die we will enter a state to await Jesus's return then will face judgment all together. It's called judgment day. Matthew 12:36, Hebrews 9:27. There's no verse saying people get to skip this. There's no verse saying that all people go to heaven instantly, only to later travel back to earth into your body, then meet Jesus in the air, then to only go back to judgment after you've already been in heaven. It's not scriptural or logical and seems to require misinterpreting the following 2 verses, by cherry picking and broadly interpreting it as if it automatically represents all people and all circumstances.
"absent with body present with Lord" isn't in the Bible. That phrase has been changed from 2 Corinthians 5:8 where Paul said he would "rather" be absent from the body, and present with the Lord. He didn't say in 100% of all cases when people die that 100% of the time they will be "immediately" with the Lord, regardless. Paul was only stating his preference. It doesn't mean Hitler and other mass murderers are with the Lord right now, simply because of this one verse.
Second, people often quote the verse about the man on the cross that Jesus said would be in "paradise" on that day as support. But Jesus didn't say 100% of all people, from this moment onward will 100% go to heaven, and zero people going to hell including Hitler? Jesus has the power to make exceptions and take people to heaven, but the word paradise is not necessarily the same as heaven. Some believe this word means a waiting area for the dead.
Lastly, these are only 2 verses requiring creative interpretation, but at least 5 verses say we'll be sleeping are straightforward. Which is true? Bible says all will be judged, not just some. So, believing people go immediately to heaven without waiting on the Lord, and skipping judgment doesn't align with the other scripture either.
Jesus is powerful enough to make exceptions to whomever He wants, but He didn't say all thieves on crosses from now on will instantly go to heaven, or all criminals will go to heaven instantly upon death, or everyone death row will automatically go to heaven, or all Christians will go to heaven, or that all people will go to heaven instantly upon death. No, He only said to the one person next to Him that he's be in "paradise." The other thief didn't receive this.
Secondly, paradise could be a different place than heaven. Some think it may be a place for souls to wait until Jesus's return and judgment then salvation. That would make more logical sense, because Jesus said the dead will rise at that time to meet Jesus in the air then be judged. It doesn't make sense for anyone to skip judgment and go to heaven when they haven't even been judged yet, only to go back to earth in their body and repeat the process. The Bible says "all will be judged" on a particular day.
I personally believe what the Bible says in these verses:
Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:18-20, Matthew 9:24.
I'm sure there's been many others in the past too if you do an advanced search for it.
The Bible says when we die we will enter a state to await Jesus's return then will face judgment all together. It's called judgment day. Matthew 12:36, Hebrews 9:27. There's no verse saying you get to skip this, and nothing saying you go to heaven then go back to earth into your body, only to go back to judgment after you've already been in heaven.
Daniel 12:2
Job 14:12
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Corinthians 15:18-20
Matthew 9:24
Those who believe in instant heaven involves misinterpreting 2 key verses: 1. Misquoting Paul when he said he'd "rather" be in heaven (those sleeping in the grave haven't necessarily departed from their old bodies yet anyway), 2. Thief on cross when Jesus said that day he'd be in "paradise". Most ignore all the other verses above saying we will await Jesus's return, then have a day of judgment. God bless.
I'd like to offer an alternative viewpoint to the absent with body present with Lord phrase.
First, it doesn't say that in the Bible. That phrase is actually from 2 Corinthians 5:8 where Paul said he would "rather" be absent from the body, and present with the Lord. He didn't say in 100% of all cases when people die that 100% of the time they will be "immediately" with the Lord. Paul was stating his preference. It doesn't mean Hitler and other mass murderers are with the Lord right now, simply because of this one verse.
Second, people often quote the verse about the man on the cross that Jesus said would be in "paradise" on that day as support. But Jesus didn't say 100% of all people, from this moment onward will 100% go to heaven, and zero people going to hell including Hitler? Jesus has the power to make exceptions and take people to heaven, but the word paradise is not necessarily the same as heaven. Some believe this word means a waiting area for the dead.
Lastly, there are many more Bible verses indicating that the dead are 'sleeping' and are awaiting the Lord to meet in the air and then face judgment. It says all will be judged, not just some. So, believing people go immediately to heaven without waiting on the Lord, and skipping judgment doesn't align with the other scriptures. God bless.
It seems like you labeled people who believe the Bible as being in one of these groups, which could be perceived as an disrespectful attack. You wrote "The concept of "soul sleep" is not biblical. ", but sleep while awaiting Jesus's return and judgment is Biblical if that's what the Bible says. And this is what the Bible says:
Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
The scripture you quoted about sleep and awaiting judgment supports it, and the scripture you used to support your belief of going immediately to heaven doesn't actually support it. You then misquoted Paul 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 when he said he would "rather" be in heaven than on Earth. Philippians 1:23 says he has a "desire" to depart, not that 100% of all people go immediately to be with the Lord. Thought I would explain that for the benefit of others who may be viewing this so they are not mislead. This is not a salvation issue, but it's hard to see scripture being distorted and not mention it. Normal Bible readers who aren't in any of the groups you mention can believe what God's Word says about sleep. If it says it, and it does, then I believe it. I do not believe man's different ideas about the subject, only God's. God bless.
I'd like to offer an alternative viewpoint to the absent with body present with Lord phrase.
First, it doesn't say that in the Bible. That phrase is actually from 2 Corinthians 5:8 where Paul said he would "rather" be absent from the body, and present with the Lord. He didn't say in 100% of all cases when people die that 100% of the time they will be "immediately" with the Lord, regardless. If it was the second phrase it would be clear what it means, but all it means is Paul stating his preference. It certainly doesn't mean Hitler and other mass murderers are with the Lord right now, simply because of this one verse.
Second, people often quote the verse about the man on the cross that Jesus said would be in "paradise" on that day as support. But Jesus didn't say 100% of all people, from this moment onward will 100% go to heaven, and zero people going to hell. And the word paradise is not necessarily the same as heaven. Some believe this is a waiting area for the dead.
Lastly, there are many more Bible verses indicating that the dead are 'sleeping' and are awaiting the Lord to meet in the air and then face judgment. It says all will be judged, not just some. So, believing people go immediately to heaven without waiting on the Lord, and skipping judgment doesn't align with the other scriptures.
Matthew 12:36, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:11-15 - People are all judged on the same day. Lots of people seen in the same place.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says the dead will rise and those living will meet the Lord in the air. Would it make sense for someone to go heaven, then back to earth to rise up, then back again to heaven?
When people die they 'sleep' awaiting the Lord's return as it indicates in Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
It will be hard to find, the closest you will get is a parable in Luke 16. If you read the chapter and the context it is against the love of money and wealth. When Jesus first came the Greek influence was widespread many were Hellenized.
When our spirit leaves our body and goes to intermediate heaven does not come from scripture, it comes from Plato. His definition of death is the separation of the soul from the body. Hades the Underworld where the dead went, a subterranean region, the world of the dead where all souls passed after their time on earth, Elysium was paradise.
If you look for scripture you will find sleep in the earth until the resurrection, Job 7:21Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16Psalm 89:48Psalm 115:17Daniel 12:2Ecclesiastes 9:10
Death is something we all will face; many believe our body dies and our soul lives on. Is our soul immortal? Can we take 2 Corinthians 5:8 when we die our soul leaves our body and we are present with the Lord? Some define death as a separation of the soul from the body. Does that come from scripture? I have not found that in scripture.
It comes from Greek philosophy of Plato. He wrote the body is a prison for the soul and viewed death as the means of freedom for the soul. The philosophy of death started blending in the church in the second century and those good souls go to heaven and the bad goes to hell and more. Many see the parable in Luke 16:19-31 as fitting this. If you read the chapter Jesus is talking about the unrighteous love mammon and neglect the true riches.
My understanding from scripture every part of us is mortal and when we die, we sleep in the dust, Job 14:12-14, Job 17:13-16, Ecclesiastes 9:5-10 until resurrection. When this mortal puts on immortality 1 Corinthians 15:52-58, and we will be absent from this flesh body. Then those that are Christs will be judged and receive our rewards. Matthew 16:27, Revelation 22:12 that is our hope, 1 Thessalonians 2:19
We will sleep in the dust, Daniel 12:2, 1Theselonians 4:14 and this is not from heaven, it is from around the world to meet Jesus in the air coming down to Israel the start the 1000 years at His coming. Matthew 24:31Zechariah 14:4.
I am sure you will get different replies on this, my understanding is close to what is in your post. Soul and spirit are two different words but seem to think of being the same and are hard to separate in our mind. What happens to these when we die there are different understandings, does the soul sleep in the earth with the body, or is it immortal and go to two different places?
The word soul in Hebrew is nephesh meaning a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion. The Greek word psuche meaning the soul, life, self, a person's distinct identity.
The word spirit, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ruach meaning breath, wind, spirit, or the Greek word pneuma also meaning wind, breath, spirit, when writing about the spirit.
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The spirit goes back to God Ecclesiastes 12:7
The Holy Spirit seals us until when? Ephesians 4:30
We are buried mortal, dead, in corruption and we are raised immortal incorruptible 1 Corinthians 15:42-44
All consciousness ends when we die. Psalm 6:5Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16Psalm 89:48Psalm 115:17Ecclesiastes 9:5-10
We sleep in the dust until resurrection day, the day of redemption. 1 Corinthians 15:511 Thessalonians 4:141 Corinthians 15:52-54
God raised Jesus from the dead after three days and three nights, so, Romans 8:1 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Have not found any scripture that says we or our soul or spirit is immortal, may someone else provide it if it is in the bible.
I am not catholic! However, what I was referring too is that these books are not listed in the bible (66 books). It was originally in the old KJV bible 1610, but was removed. I do not believe in purgatory and praying for the dead.
You are replying to a comment by "Glen Barbour and Chris"
Messenger Replies:
Please read Acts 24:15 We can pray to God ( Psalm 83:18) for his kingdom to come ( Matthew 6:9,10).
Why? because we can pray that he resurrect our loved ones who have died (the ones we love so dearly)
Have you considered: Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 ?
While a comforting thought, that repeated phrase doesn't appear that way in the Bible. Paul didn't say that 100% of the time, when 100% of all people die, that instantly you are absent from the body and 100% of the time immediately with the Lord. Paul said he would 'rather' be present with the Lord. That doesn't mean everyone goes to be with the Lord and that doesn't mean that everyone is absent from their body upon death and won't wait for Jesus to return, and won't face any judgment. Matthew 12:36, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:11-15 - People are all judged on the same day. God bless...
Note that Paul didn't say that 100% of the time, when 100% of all people die, that instantly you are absent from the body and 100% of the time immediately with the Lord. Paul just said he would 'rather' be present with the Lord. I think some are reading things into that that aren't there and it seems contrary to other scripture about us all facing judgment. No one gets to skip judgment. Matthew 12:36, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:11-15 - People are all judged on the same day. Lots of people seen in the same place.
I doubt mass murderers like Hitler went to the Lord for example. I believe he is waiting to face judgment like everyone else.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says the dead will rise and those living will meet the Lord in the air. Would it make sense for someone to go heaven, then back to earth to rise up, then back again to heaven?
Also, when people die they 'sleep' as it says in. So, they are still with their bodies. If cremated, I still believe souls are just sleeping somewhere awaiting Jesus's return, then the day of judgment that says everyone must face. It doesn't say anyone gets to skip judgment day. God bless.
Adam was a flesh-and-blood human being, so like us, his body was subject to wearing out, and one day his heart would stop, and the breath of life (spirit) would return back to God. Adam like us was not created immortal, he needed to eat of the Tree of Life to live forever, that is why it was hidden.
After Adam sinned it was a spiritual death not a physical death, the dwelling place for God in man, Satan's deception, physical life goes on after sin. Now we are under the judgment of condemnation and only by the grace of God and the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ we are free from this judgment.
Jesus came and lived in the flesh and died and was resurrected so we could be redeemed from this state of death, giving us the opportunity of eternal life. Did Jesus return to heaven when He died? Jesus did not ascend to His Father until after He resurrected ( John 20:17).
The belief in our soul is immortal comes from ancient Greek philosophy, developed especially by two of the chief Greek philosophers, Plato and Socrates. The meaning of death, being a separation of the soul from the body also came from ancient Greek philosophy. This immortal soul and the meaning of death has been taught for so long it is not questioned today.
It is Platonism, Augustine of Hippo made a saint, held this philosophy. He was a theologian, philosopher with a strong influence on doctrines in the church, in the fourth and early fifth century.
We are buried mortal, dead, in corruption and we are raised immortally incorruptible ( 1 Corinthians 15:42-44)
All consciousness ends when we die. ( Psalm 6:5) ( Job 14:12-14) ( Job 17:13-16) ( Psalm 89:48) ( Psalm 115:17) ( Ecclesiastes 9:5-10)
We sleep in death until resurrection day, the day of redemption. ( 1 Corinthians 15:51) ( 1 Thessalonians 4:14). ( 1 Corinthians 15:52-54)
Matthew 12:36 - People will be judged at some point on the same day. Is it likely that they are judged AFTER they go to heaven or hell or BEFORE?
2 Corinthians 5:10 - People are judged first THEN they receive what is due.
Revelation 20:11-15 - People are all judged on the same day. Lots of people seen in the same place.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says the dead will rise and those living will meet the Lord in the air.
Would it make sense for someone to go heaven before being judged where they're going, then back to earth enter a rotted corpse then rise up to meet Jesus, then be judged then go back again to heaven where they already were?
What about these verses that indicate people will sleep in-between while awaiting Jesus's return: Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:14.
Many have different views on this and some defend them fiercely and interpret scripture to fit those views. This is not a salvation question so here are some things you may study for your own conscience; we all will face the death of this fleshly body and how you decide to face it is up to you. ( Psalm 6:5) ( Job 14:12-14) ( Job 17:13-16) ( Psalm 89:48) ( Psalm 115:17) ( Ecclesiastes 9:5-10)
There is a verse in ( 1 Timothy 4:7) to keep in mind, the actual Greek word used by Paul in this verse was "mythous", from which the English words myth and mythology come. In the actual Greek text of this verse, Paul further characterizes these fables as profane "bebelous". The King James Version of the Bible renders as "profane and old wives' tales".
Does scripture without man's interpretation back up a belief? ( Luke 16:19-31) is taught that we go to heaven or hell when we die. Questions to ask; What is the context of this chapter? Is this a parable or a reality? Is it backed up by other scripture or does it line up with Greek mythology?
What is our spirit? ( Psalm 104:29) ( Ecclesiastes 12:7) ( James 2:26). Spirit meaning wind, breath, spirit. When are we absent from our bodies? If we go to heaven when we die what is the meaning of ( 1 Corinthians 15:52-58)?
My personal understanding what scripture says is our spirit is our breath, and when we die it goes back to God who gave it, and our communication through the Holy Spirit stops until the resurrection,(sleep in Christ). And we being saved in Christ with the down payment/seal given by the Holy Spirit will be raised incorruptible in our new body and then we are absent from this fleshly body. But it is what you decide.
Job 14:1 Man (Christ) that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.
Job 14:2 He (Christ) cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he (Christ) fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.
Job 14:3 An doest thou (Father) open thy eyes on such a one (Christ), and bringest me (Christ) into judgement with thee (the Father)?
Job 14:4 Who (Father) can bring a clean thing out of a unclean one? not one.
Job 14:5 Seeing his (Christ) days are determined, the number of his (Christ) months are with thee (the Father), thou (Father) hast appointed his (Christ) bounds that he (Christ) cannot pass;
Job 14:6 (Father) turn from him (Christ), that he (Christ) may rest (in the grave), till he (Christ) shall accomplish, as a hireling, his (Christ) day.
Job 14:7 For there is hope of a tree (of LIFE), if it be cut down, that it may sprout again, and that the tender branch (mankind) thereof will not cease.
Job 14:8 Though the root (of the tree of LIFE) wax old in the earth, and the stock (of the tree of LIFE) thereof die in the ground;
Job 14:9 Yet through the scent of water (Spirit of the Father) it (the tree of LIFE) will bud, and bring forth boughs (mankind) like a plant.
This is something you must decide, there are different views. Study the words soul and spirit, and breath, how they are used through the Bible. One thing, there is no time or knowledge in death ( Psalm 6:5) so whatever you decide, it's like when we go to sleep the next thing we know, we wake up.
When the gospel of Christ was given to the Gentiles, the countries around, even the Jews were influenced by Hellenistic Greek Philosophy, beliefs like what happens when we die, mythical stories of death, paradise, hades, and the underworlds crossed over.
The word "soul" means "life," either physical or eternal. Hebrew word nephesh meaning a soul, ( Genesis 2:7) living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion. The Greek word psuche meaning the soul, life, self, a person's distinct identity. If you study them, it is also used for all living beings' fish, animals, birds, and man. The soul is a living being but it is also our identity, we are all different in looks and personality, all our feelings, our thoughts, emotions, all that makes us, us.
The word spirit, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ruach meaning breath, wind, spirit, or the Greek word pneuma also meaning wind, breath, spirit, when writing about the spirit.
What I have been shown in my studies, spirit is our breath, also what we communicate and worship God through the Holy Spirit. When we die our breath goes back to God ( Ecclesiastes 12:7) and our communication stops. ( Psalm 115:17) ( Psalms 146:4) ( Job 14:12-14)
We are asleep, body and soul until we are resurrected, that's when this mortal puts on immortality. ( 1 Corinthians 15:42, 51-56).
Sleep is used many times in the Bible for death and it is a very good example, may this give you another view and something you can study.
The Bible says we will all first be judged. Not just non-Christians, not just "sinners."
Ecclesiastes 12:14
2 Corinthians 5:10
Matthew 12:36
We also know that some will be confident and assume they'll go to heaven, but won't get in.
Matthew 7:21
To me that means that no one is going to either of those places until after judgment day:
Revelation 20:11-15
Hebrews 9:27
1 Corinthians 4:5
And finally, if people don't go to heaven or hell when they die, where else do they go? Here's what the Bible says:
Job 14:12
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Thessalonians 4:17
I believe just as 8 hours can pass in the snap of a finger will it seem like a snap of the finger for those "sleeping" will awake and rise to meet Jesus in the air then face judgment. This took time to put together and paste all these verses here for you, so I hope you likewise take a moment to hover over them and read them. I care.
his motives was for man and woman to take care of the earth. to enjoy his
creation, to take care of the animals. to enjoy the richness that the earth provided.
he created the ground to give in abundance, so that poverty was impossible. God
started the earth in the garden of Eden. Jehovah and the heavens was his the main
authority to mankind according to Genesis 1,2. there were no kings, rulers in the beginning.
But this happened to mankind: Genesis 3; Genesis 6; Genesis 19; Job 1,2; Luke 4:1-13
it just getting worse and worse. 2Timothy 3:1-7
It's a heavenly war, and a invisible war ( Revelation 12:7-13) we humans may not understand but God has revealed it to us in human terms. although the innocent are dying because of 1 John 5:19. WE KEEP THE HOPE AS GOD WANTS US TO: Romans 15:4-6; Revelation 21:3-5
We continue in the hope. Job 14:14
IF YOU READ ALL THESE SCRIPTURES YOU WILL SEE WHY MANKIND ARE SUFFERING.
I HOPE THIS ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.
Thanks for your reply. You have a better knowledge of Greek than I do, what I see is today, the Greek word , smeron, meaning today, this day, this very day. I think the word today is correct it is how we read the sentence and how it fits with what the thief said and when will he be in paradise, and if paradise is part of Hades or the new earth when it is all fulfilled.
Heb. 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: What do we understand the meaning to die/death? Platonism says it is a separation of the soul from the body and the souls go to Hades. If the soul is immortal what is appointed to die?
Luke 16:19-31. Was this a real story or is this a parable He told to people mainly the Pharisees? If we take it as reality, they were judged at death because Lazarus went to Abraham's bosom, and the rich man went to a fiery place of torture. Does scripture support that? Dan. 12:2 Matt. 25:31-34 John 5:28-29 Rev. 20:11-15.
The rich man was aware of where he was and talking and seems they have a body, asking for Lazarus to wet his finger and cool his tongue. Does scripture say we are awake in death? Job 14:10-12 Ecc. 9:5-6. The context of this chapter is the love of money, and stewardship, Jesus was addressing this to the Pharisees, "No servant can serve two masters".
Eph. 4 I know some understand this to mean that when Jesus ascended into heaven, he led a host of captives who ascended into heaven with him. But in Acts 2:29-34 David is still in his grave and has not ascended, would David be left? John 3:13. Does this show Jesus ascended alone?
I will leave it there, I guess it comes down to if we believe our soul is immortal which influences how we understand the scripture. Just some other thoughts, like you said there are probably more understandings. Thanks again.
God bless,
RLW
My understanding is like Adam's, just to add to what Adam said. You should study on your own, there are different views.
The belief that our soul is immortal comes from ancient Greek philosophy. The meaning of death, being a separation of the soul from the body also came from ancient Greek philosophy that is different than what we see in the Old Testament.
It is Platonism, Augustine of Hippo held this philosophy. He was a theologian, and philosopher with a strong influence on doctrines in the church, in the fourth and early fifth century.
Gen. 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. The spirit/breath gives us life.
The Hebrew word nephesh means a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, and emotion. The Greek word psuche means the soul, life, self, and a person's distinct identity. If you study them, it is also used for all living beings' fish, animals, birds, and man.
Physically we live AND die, eternally we live OR die, our choice of the gift of God that is through Jesus Christ our Lord, eternal life, or die the second death.
The word spirit, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ruach meaning breath, wind, spirit, or the Greek word pneuma also meaning wind, breath, spirit, this life-giving breath/spirit is what goes back to God.
We are buried dead, mortal, in corruption and we are raised immortally incorruptible 1 Corinthians 15:42-44. That is when we will be absent from this flesh body.
All consciousness ends when we die. Psalm 6:5 Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16 Psalm 89:48 Psalm 115:17 Ecclesiastes 9:5-10
We sleep in death until resurrection day, the day of redemption. 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 Ephesians 4:30
Our spirit (breath) given to us by God is what keeps us alive, and we are a living soul. Ecclesiastes 12:7 Psalm 104:29 Psalm 146:4 James 2:26
May this help your study.
God bless,
RLW
The Bible says we will sleep until Christ's return:
Daniel 12:2
Job 14:12
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Corinthians 15:18-20
Matthew 9:24
A common reason why people assume they go straight to heaven is misinterpreting 2 Cor 5:8-10. The misinterpretation has been repeated so much its become standard dogma to many well meaning Bible readers. But the only problem is the Bible doesn't say that. Paul only says he'd "rather" absent from the body and present with the Lord. The word Rather is a preference. He's not making a broad statement about the afterlife that 100% of the time, when 100% of all people die, that instantly you skip judgment and are immediately with the Lord 100% of the time.
Adding further support to this is Paul in the previous book in 1 Corinthians 5:3 already said he was "absent" from the body when he couldn't meet with the Corinthians in person. Based on the same wording used, I think people are extrapolating way too much from Paul's preferential (rather) statement while ignoring the verses that already say everyone will face judgment and all the sleeping until Christ returns, etc. I would find it hard to ignore 5 verses in favor of one "rather" statement that Paul already used before. Paul also preferred everyone remain single like him- so the inferences seem to be disproportionately applied.
God bless.
Please know "rapture" is not in the Bible, please read & study for yourself, Truth 2Timothy 2:15,
Job 14:12-14, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, 2Thessalonians 2,
Revelation 10:7, Revelation 6:9-17, notice Jesus says Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13,
Hopefully these are helpful
The Bible says we will sleep until Jesus returns in the following verses and possibly more:
1 Cor 15:18-20
1 Thess 4:13-18
Job 14:12
Daniel 12:2
This scripture debunks what the other people are saying about people NOT sleeping to await Jesus. I believe what God says over what man says. Don't believe what I say either, but just look at God's truth and decide. But when I read these verses and pray about it its 100% clear what it means to me.
Those claiming immediate heaven may require ignoring these 4 verses and choosing only 2 scriptures and interpret them too broadly: (1) the one where Paul says he'd "rather" be with the Lord. Paul only states his preference. I prefer to be with the Lord too, but that doesn't automatically mean 100% of all people forever will skip judgement and be in heaven immediately. And (2) the verse about Jesus telling the criminal on this day he'll be in paradise doesn't automatically mean 100% of all people will have this, and doesn't invalidate the other 4 verses where it clearly says we'll "sleep" awaiting Jesus, and paradise is a different word than heaven and some think it might even be a place of waiting.
Suggest just following the scriptures and praying for wisdom and understanding rather than believing any unscriptural opinions. God bless.
The same topic is also discussed here and probably other places too:
Link
Part 2
Scripture describes death as sleep and the grave/hell is our home until Jesus returns and releases us from the pains of death, Acts 2:24, and the hope we have, Rom. 8:11. We see in Psalm 6:5 Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16. When a person dies, he "lies down" in death and does not arise out of that sleep until his regeneration at the resurrection. Psalm 89:48 Psalm 115:17 Ecclesiastes 9:5-10.
Jesus said this referring to eternal life, Matthew 16:26. Sory for being wordy but I hope this sort of explains my understanding. If our soul is immortal, Luke 16 is a real story, I believe scripture is clear, our soul is us and is mortal, there would be nothing to resurrect. Where would be victory over the grave and death? 1 Cor. 15:54-55 1 Cor. 15:14.
Jesus's soul along with his body was as He said of Jonah/Jonas, Matt. 12"40. In Acts 2:22-35 Jesus was not left in Hell and did not see corruption, in vs. 24 God loosed the pains of death because Jesus was sinless, and death had to let go.
1 Peter 3:18-20 is hard, we have spirits in prison who were disobedient in the days of Noah, and the waters of the flood compared to the baptizing waters saving not washing away the filth of the flesh but for the conscience toward God. Our conscience, our hard drive our testimony, 2 Cor.1:12 tells us with the help of the Holy Spirit if we are good to go and it is pure.
There is no clear indication of when Jesus did this so to say it was when He was in the tomb would be just an opinion.
Spirits in prison from Noah's time building the ark? Why that time and not all the time up to His resurrection? I may be wrong, but I do not know of the dead being called spirits and being in prison, but the angels who left their first estate are locked in chains of darkness. Revelation gives another look at what that prison may be. This one will be full of opinions that would need setting at a table discussion, so I will leave this one to your understanding.
See part 3
Daniel 12:2
Job 14:12
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Corinthians 15:18-20
Matthew 9:24
Hello, the Bible says when we die we will enter a state to await Jesus's return then will face judgment all together. It's called judgment day. Matthew 12:36, Hebrews 9:27. There's no verse saying people get to skip this. There's no verse saying that all people go to heaven instantly, only to later travel back to earth into your body, then meet Jesus in the air, then to only go back to judgment after you've already been in heaven. It's not scriptural or logical and seems to require misinterpreting the following 2 verses, by cherry picking and broadly interpreting it as if it automatically represents all people and all circumstances.
"absent with body present with Lord" isn't in the Bible. That phrase has been changed from 2 Corinthians 5:8 where Paul said he would "rather" be absent from the body, and present with the Lord. He didn't say in 100% of all cases when people die that 100% of the time they will be "immediately" with the Lord, regardless. Paul was only stating his preference. It doesn't mean Hitler and other mass murderers are with the Lord right now, simply because of this one verse.
Second, people often quote the verse about the man on the cross that Jesus said would be in "paradise" on that day as support. But Jesus didn't say 100% of all people, from this moment onward will 100% go to heaven, and zero people going to hell including Hitler? Jesus has the power to make exceptions and take people to heaven, but the word paradise is not necessarily the same as heaven. Some believe this word means a waiting area for the dead.
Lastly, these are only 2 verses requiring creative interpretation, but at least 5 verses say we'll be sleeping are straightforward. Which is true? Bible says all will be judged, not just some. So, believing people go immediately to heaven without waiting on the Lord, and skipping judgment doesn't align with the other scripture either.
Secondly, paradise could be a different place than heaven. Some think it may be a place for souls to wait until Jesus's return and judgment then salvation. That would make more logical sense, because Jesus said the dead will rise at that time to meet Jesus in the air then be judged. It doesn't make sense for anyone to skip judgment and go to heaven when they haven't even been judged yet, only to go back to earth in their body and repeat the process. The Bible says "all will be judged" on a particular day.
I personally believe what the Bible says in these verses:
Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:18-20, Matthew 9:24.
There was just a discussion related to this:
Link
I'm sure there's been many others in the past too if you do an advanced search for it.
The Bible says when we die we will enter a state to await Jesus's return then will face judgment all together. It's called judgment day. Matthew 12:36, Hebrews 9:27. There's no verse saying you get to skip this, and nothing saying you go to heaven then go back to earth into your body, only to go back to judgment after you've already been in heaven.
Daniel 12:2
Job 14:12
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Corinthians 15:18-20
Matthew 9:24
Those who believe in instant heaven involves misinterpreting 2 key verses: 1. Misquoting Paul when he said he'd "rather" be in heaven (those sleeping in the grave haven't necessarily departed from their old bodies yet anyway), 2. Thief on cross when Jesus said that day he'd be in "paradise". Most ignore all the other verses above saying we will await Jesus's return, then have a day of judgment. God bless.
First, it doesn't say that in the Bible. That phrase is actually from 2 Corinthians 5:8 where Paul said he would "rather" be absent from the body, and present with the Lord. He didn't say in 100% of all cases when people die that 100% of the time they will be "immediately" with the Lord. Paul was stating his preference. It doesn't mean Hitler and other mass murderers are with the Lord right now, simply because of this one verse.
Second, people often quote the verse about the man on the cross that Jesus said would be in "paradise" on that day as support. But Jesus didn't say 100% of all people, from this moment onward will 100% go to heaven, and zero people going to hell including Hitler? Jesus has the power to make exceptions and take people to heaven, but the word paradise is not necessarily the same as heaven. Some believe this word means a waiting area for the dead.
Lastly, there are many more Bible verses indicating that the dead are 'sleeping' and are awaiting the Lord to meet in the air and then face judgment. It says all will be judged, not just some. So, believing people go immediately to heaven without waiting on the Lord, and skipping judgment doesn't align with the other scriptures. God bless.
Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
It seems like you labeled people who believe the Bible as being in one of these groups, which could be perceived as an disrespectful attack. You wrote "The concept of "soul sleep" is not biblical. ", but sleep while awaiting Jesus's return and judgment is Biblical if that's what the Bible says. And this is what the Bible says:
Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
The scripture you quoted about sleep and awaiting judgment supports it, and the scripture you used to support your belief of going immediately to heaven doesn't actually support it. You then misquoted Paul 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 when he said he would "rather" be in heaven than on Earth. Philippians 1:23 says he has a "desire" to depart, not that 100% of all people go immediately to be with the Lord. Thought I would explain that for the benefit of others who may be viewing this so they are not mislead. This is not a salvation issue, but it's hard to see scripture being distorted and not mention it. Normal Bible readers who aren't in any of the groups you mention can believe what God's Word says about sleep. If it says it, and it does, then I believe it. I do not believe man's different ideas about the subject, only God's. God bless.
Job 8:9
Job 14:2
Ps. 39:5, 11
Ps. 102:11
I'd like to offer an alternative viewpoint to the absent with body present with Lord phrase.
First, it doesn't say that in the Bible. That phrase is actually from 2 Corinthians 5:8 where Paul said he would "rather" be absent from the body, and present with the Lord. He didn't say in 100% of all cases when people die that 100% of the time they will be "immediately" with the Lord, regardless. If it was the second phrase it would be clear what it means, but all it means is Paul stating his preference. It certainly doesn't mean Hitler and other mass murderers are with the Lord right now, simply because of this one verse.
Second, people often quote the verse about the man on the cross that Jesus said would be in "paradise" on that day as support. But Jesus didn't say 100% of all people, from this moment onward will 100% go to heaven, and zero people going to hell. And the word paradise is not necessarily the same as heaven. Some believe this is a waiting area for the dead.
Lastly, there are many more Bible verses indicating that the dead are 'sleeping' and are awaiting the Lord to meet in the air and then face judgment. It says all will be judged, not just some. So, believing people go immediately to heaven without waiting on the Lord, and skipping judgment doesn't align with the other scriptures.
Matthew 12:36, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:11-15 - People are all judged on the same day. Lots of people seen in the same place.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says the dead will rise and those living will meet the Lord in the air. Would it make sense for someone to go heaven, then back to earth to rise up, then back again to heaven?
When people die they 'sleep' awaiting the Lord's return as it indicates in Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
It will be hard to find, the closest you will get is a parable in Luke 16. If you read the chapter and the context it is against the love of money and wealth. When Jesus first came the Greek influence was widespread many were Hellenized.
When our spirit leaves our body and goes to intermediate heaven does not come from scripture, it comes from Plato. His definition of death is the separation of the soul from the body. Hades the Underworld where the dead went, a subterranean region, the world of the dead where all souls passed after their time on earth, Elysium was paradise.
If you look for scripture you will find sleep in the earth until the resurrection, Job 7:21 Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16 Psalm 89:48 Psalm 115:17 Daniel 12:2 Ecclesiastes 9:10
God bless,
RLW
Death is something we all will face; many believe our body dies and our soul lives on. Is our soul immortal? Can we take 2 Corinthians 5:8 when we die our soul leaves our body and we are present with the Lord? Some define death as a separation of the soul from the body. Does that come from scripture? I have not found that in scripture.
It comes from Greek philosophy of Plato. He wrote the body is a prison for the soul and viewed death as the means of freedom for the soul. The philosophy of death started blending in the church in the second century and those good souls go to heaven and the bad goes to hell and more. Many see the parable in Luke 16:19-31 as fitting this. If you read the chapter Jesus is talking about the unrighteous love mammon and neglect the true riches.
My understanding from scripture every part of us is mortal and when we die, we sleep in the dust, Job 14:12-14, Job 17:13-16, Ecclesiastes 9:5-10 until resurrection. When this mortal puts on immortality 1 Corinthians 15:52-58, and we will be absent from this flesh body. Then those that are Christs will be judged and receive our rewards. Matthew 16:27, Revelation 22:12 that is our hope, 1 Thessalonians 2:19
We will sleep in the dust, Daniel 12:2, 1Theselonians 4:14 and this is not from heaven, it is from around the world to meet Jesus in the air coming down to Israel the start the 1000 years at His coming. Matthew 24:31 Zechariah 14:4.
This is my understanding of scripture.
God bless,
RLW
I am sure you will get different replies on this, my understanding is close to what is in your post. Soul and spirit are two different words but seem to think of being the same and are hard to separate in our mind. What happens to these when we die there are different understandings, does the soul sleep in the earth with the body, or is it immortal and go to two different places?
The word soul in Hebrew is nephesh meaning a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion. The Greek word psuche meaning the soul, life, self, a person's distinct identity.
The word spirit, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ruach meaning breath, wind, spirit, or the Greek word pneuma also meaning wind, breath, spirit, when writing about the spirit.
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The spirit goes back to God Ecclesiastes 12:7
The Holy Spirit seals us until when? Ephesians 4:30
We are buried mortal, dead, in corruption and we are raised immortal incorruptible 1 Corinthians 15:42-44
All consciousness ends when we die. Psalm 6:5 Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16 Psalm 89:48 Psalm 115:17 Ecclesiastes 9:5-10
We sleep in the dust until resurrection day, the day of redemption. 1 Corinthians 15:51 1 Thessalonians 4:14 1 Corinthians 15:52-54
God raised Jesus from the dead after three days and three nights, so, Romans 8:1 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Have not found any scripture that says we or our soul or spirit is immortal, may someone else provide it if it is in the bible.
God bless,
RLW
Job 14:7 For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:8 Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;
Job 14:9 Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.
Chris,
I am not catholic! However, what I was referring too is that these books are not listed in the bible (66 books). It was originally in the old KJV bible 1610, but was removed. I do not believe in purgatory and praying for the dead.
You are replying to a comment by "Glen Barbour and Chris"
Messenger Replies:
Please read Acts 24:15 We can pray to God ( Psalm 83:18) for his kingdom to come ( Matthew 6:9,10).
Why? because we can pray that he resurrect our loved ones who have died (the ones we love so dearly)
John 5:28,29
Job 14:14,15
John 11:25
While a comforting thought, that repeated phrase doesn't appear that way in the Bible. Paul didn't say that 100% of the time, when 100% of all people die, that instantly you are absent from the body and 100% of the time immediately with the Lord. Paul said he would 'rather' be present with the Lord. That doesn't mean everyone goes to be with the Lord and that doesn't mean that everyone is absent from their body upon death and won't wait for Jesus to return, and won't face any judgment. Matthew 12:36, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:11-15 - People are all judged on the same day. God bless...
1 Corinthians 15:22 says For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
( Genesis 3; John 3:16,17;5:28,29; John 17:3)
Resurrected to earth: ( 2 Peter 3:13)
Psalm 37:9-11,29,34;
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
or
Resurrected to heaven: ( Revelation 20)
Revelation 14:3 (144,000); Matthew 7:21
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
hope this helps, Thanks
I doubt mass murderers like Hitler went to the Lord for example. I believe he is waiting to face judgment like everyone else.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says the dead will rise and those living will meet the Lord in the air. Would it make sense for someone to go heaven, then back to earth to rise up, then back again to heaven?
Also, when people die they 'sleep' as it says in. So, they are still with their bodies. If cremated, I still believe souls are just sleeping somewhere awaiting Jesus's return, then the day of judgment that says everyone must face. It doesn't say anyone gets to skip judgment day. God bless.
Daniel 12:2, Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
The Bible doesn't seem to cover all the questions you asked. But I believe it does answer one of them: Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17.
God bless you...
Adam was a flesh-and-blood human being, so like us, his body was subject to wearing out, and one day his heart would stop, and the breath of life (spirit) would return back to God. Adam like us was not created immortal, he needed to eat of the Tree of Life to live forever, that is why it was hidden.
After Adam sinned it was a spiritual death not a physical death, the dwelling place for God in man, Satan's deception, physical life goes on after sin. Now we are under the judgment of condemnation and only by the grace of God and the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ we are free from this judgment.
Jesus came and lived in the flesh and died and was resurrected so we could be redeemed from this state of death, giving us the opportunity of eternal life. Did Jesus return to heaven when He died? Jesus did not ascend to His Father until after He resurrected ( John 20:17).
The belief in our soul is immortal comes from ancient Greek philosophy, developed especially by two of the chief Greek philosophers, Plato and Socrates. The meaning of death, being a separation of the soul from the body also came from ancient Greek philosophy. This immortal soul and the meaning of death has been taught for so long it is not questioned today.
It is Platonism, Augustine of Hippo made a saint, held this philosophy. He was a theologian, philosopher with a strong influence on doctrines in the church, in the fourth and early fifth century.
We are buried mortal, dead, in corruption and we are raised immortally incorruptible ( 1 Corinthians 15:42-44)
All consciousness ends when we die. ( Psalm 6:5) ( Job 14:12-14) ( Job 17:13-16) ( Psalm 89:48) ( Psalm 115:17) ( Ecclesiastes 9:5-10)
We sleep in death until resurrection day, the day of redemption. ( 1 Corinthians 15:51) ( 1 Thessalonians 4:14). ( 1 Corinthians 15:52-54)
RLW
2 Corinthians 5:10 - People are judged first THEN they receive what is due.
Revelation 20:11-15 - People are all judged on the same day. Lots of people seen in the same place.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 says the dead will rise and those living will meet the Lord in the air.
Would it make sense for someone to go heaven before being judged where they're going, then back to earth enter a rotted corpse then rise up to meet Jesus, then be judged then go back again to heaven where they already were?
What about these verses that indicate people will sleep in-between while awaiting Jesus's return: Job 14:12, 1 Thessalonians 4:14.
Many have different views on this and some defend them fiercely and interpret scripture to fit those views. This is not a salvation question so here are some things you may study for your own conscience; we all will face the death of this fleshly body and how you decide to face it is up to you. ( Psalm 6:5) ( Job 14:12-14) ( Job 17:13-16) ( Psalm 89:48) ( Psalm 115:17) ( Ecclesiastes 9:5-10)
There is a verse in ( 1 Timothy 4:7) to keep in mind, the actual Greek word used by Paul in this verse was "mythous", from which the English words myth and mythology come. In the actual Greek text of this verse, Paul further characterizes these fables as profane "bebelous". The King James Version of the Bible renders as "profane and old wives' tales".
Does scripture without man's interpretation back up a belief? ( Luke 16:19-31) is taught that we go to heaven or hell when we die. Questions to ask; What is the context of this chapter? Is this a parable or a reality? Is it backed up by other scripture or does it line up with Greek mythology?
What is our spirit? ( Psalm 104:29) ( Ecclesiastes 12:7) ( James 2:26). Spirit meaning wind, breath, spirit. When are we absent from our bodies? If we go to heaven when we die what is the meaning of ( 1 Corinthians 15:52-58)?
My personal understanding what scripture says is our spirit is our breath, and when we die it goes back to God who gave it, and our communication through the Holy Spirit stops until the resurrection,(sleep in Christ). And we being saved in Christ with the down payment/seal given by the Holy Spirit will be raised incorruptible in our new body and then we are absent from this fleshly body. But it is what you decide.
God bless.
RLW
Job 14:1 Man (Christ) that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.
Job 14:2 He (Christ) cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he (Christ) fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.
Job 14:3 An doest thou (Father) open thy eyes on such a one (Christ), and bringest me (Christ) into judgement with thee (the Father)?
Job 14:4 Who (Father) can bring a clean thing out of a unclean one? not one.
Job 14:5 Seeing his (Christ) days are determined, the number of his (Christ) months are with thee (the Father), thou (Father) hast appointed his (Christ) bounds that he (Christ) cannot pass;
Job 14:6 (Father) turn from him (Christ), that he (Christ) may rest (in the grave), till he (Christ) shall accomplish, as a hireling, his (Christ) day.
Job 14:7 For there is hope of a tree (of LIFE), if it be cut down, that it may sprout again, and that the tender branch (mankind) thereof will not cease.
Job 14:8 Though the root (of the tree of LIFE) wax old in the earth, and the stock (of the tree of LIFE) thereof die in the ground;
Job 14:9 Yet through the scent of water (Spirit of the Father) it (the tree of LIFE) will bud, and bring forth boughs (mankind) like a plant.
This is something you must decide, there are different views. Study the words soul and spirit, and breath, how they are used through the Bible. One thing, there is no time or knowledge in death ( Psalm 6:5) so whatever you decide, it's like when we go to sleep the next thing we know, we wake up.
When the gospel of Christ was given to the Gentiles, the countries around, even the Jews were influenced by Hellenistic Greek Philosophy, beliefs like what happens when we die, mythical stories of death, paradise, hades, and the underworlds crossed over.
The word "soul" means "life," either physical or eternal. Hebrew word nephesh meaning a soul, ( Genesis 2:7) living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion. The Greek word psuche meaning the soul, life, self, a person's distinct identity. If you study them, it is also used for all living beings' fish, animals, birds, and man. The soul is a living being but it is also our identity, we are all different in looks and personality, all our feelings, our thoughts, emotions, all that makes us, us.
The word spirit, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ruach meaning breath, wind, spirit, or the Greek word pneuma also meaning wind, breath, spirit, when writing about the spirit.
What I have been shown in my studies, spirit is our breath, also what we communicate and worship God through the Holy Spirit. When we die our breath goes back to God ( Ecclesiastes 12:7) and our communication stops. ( Psalm 115:17) ( Psalms 146:4) ( Job 14:12-14)
We are asleep, body and soul until we are resurrected, that's when this mortal puts on immortality. ( 1 Corinthians 15:42, 51-56).
Sleep is used many times in the Bible for death and it is a very good example, may this give you another view and something you can study.
May we be led by the Spirit of truth.
RLW
The Bible says we will all first be judged. Not just non-Christians, not just "sinners."
Ecclesiastes 12:14
2 Corinthians 5:10
Matthew 12:36
We also know that some will be confident and assume they'll go to heaven, but won't get in.
Matthew 7:21
To me that means that no one is going to either of those places until after judgment day:
Revelation 20:11-15
Hebrews 9:27
1 Corinthians 4:5
And finally, if people don't go to heaven or hell when they die, where else do they go? Here's what the Bible says:
Job 14:12
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Thessalonians 4:17
I believe just as 8 hours can pass in the snap of a finger will it seem like a snap of the finger for those "sleeping" will awake and rise to meet Jesus in the air then face judgment. This took time to put together and paste all these verses here for you, so I hope you likewise take a moment to hover over them and read them. I care.