Jesus the Messiah/Christ God's only begotten Son is the purpose, I do not know if I am reading your question correctly, may you and others have more or different understandings.
1 Corinthians 2:16 tells us we have the mind of Christ, but no one can know the mind of God. 2 Peter 3:18 tells us to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus. All began with Jesus; Jesus is the beginning of God's plan. Isaiah 45:18Isaiah 46:8-10 God and there is none like Him, He declared the end from the beginning His counsel (His purpose and plan by His will) shall stand and God will do all His pleasure, Psalms 33:11.
God is not in our time the end of His plan is as the beginning God's plan was completed when He made it, we have the Bible, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit His plan is made known to us as our time comes to be, as in Ephesians 1:10-12 to be the praise and glory to God.
God declared from the very beginnings of history, Acts 17:24-26 there is but one human race, we all are of the same blood, and in Jesus Christ we become brothers and sisters. In God's plan, it is finished, nothing will change. In God, it is finished already to Him who is from everlasting to everlasting, Psalms 90:2 and how He can "calleth those things which be not as though they were." Romans 4:17-18.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
To start; I used to have a similar understanding of the Trinity doctrine but over time it has changed, and I am still studying it. I do not consider myself part of any group or denomination other than a believer and follower of Jesus. I feel we should inspire each other to study in prayer for the truth and to be open to the Holy Spirit to unveil the truth as we know nothing.
With me, it started with two verses, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, I contemplated these verses for a long time, it was like they stuck in my mind unanswered. In my study of the Trinity, I found out how it developed and how many deaths it caused even after the Reformation, and the questions I asked in Churches, many could not explain it and said it is a mystery that man cannot comprehend.
Is God and has He always been one solitary person?
Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD, Mark 12:29 and as said in 1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. My understanding is God the Father is eternal He has always been and will always be Psalms 90:2. God is Spirit, if a person means He has a will, emotions, the ability to speak, rationalize, self-awareness, to have a relationship with His creation, love, hate, etc. yes one person.
Before creation was, He always and only alone, without anyone to love?
What was before creation in Scripture we have no writings or information, Scripture tells us the hosts of heaven were before the creation of the earth and the galaxies, Job 38:4-7. How long before the physical world and universe we see we do not know. God's plan He declared the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:9-10. I may be wrong, but God has never been alone inside Himself, time nor space cannot contain who He is, the beginning of His plan was Jesus.
Vs 5 The plan of God, predetermined glory, Jesus knew the Scriptures. All that was to happen to Him and the glory He would receive after He suffered on the cross had already been spoken by the prophets in the past tense as though they had already happened.
As Jesus was on the road to Emmaus in Luke 24:25-26, He talks about them not believing what the prophets had written about what was to happen to Jesus. The first man to be raised from the dead in a glorified body and God placed Him on His right hand on the throne a man, not a god.
Jesus was a man who was tempted like us and fulfilled all His Father asked Him we see hundreds of prophecies Jesus fulfilled and the man Jesus did it without one sin. Only a man could undo what the first man did. God could not do that because He cannot sin or die. The law was made for man and the curse of sin was on man, not God.
In Verses 20-22, Jesus had not yet been crucified and the glory the Father had given Him Jesus has given it to us today "but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;" This glory we will receive when Jesus returns and we are resurrected in our glorified bodies, we have it now, but it will not be manifest until Jesus returns.
If Jesus was a co-equal God in the three-person God, how could He be given anything He would already have it? Malachi 3:6 says God does not change so God cannot change, Numbers 23:19Isaiah 46:10Psalm 33:11Acts 17:26 The glory Jesus was asking for, He would receive when He resurrected.
The Spirit could not be given because Jesus had not been glorified (resurrected) John 7:39 Things were hidden from the disciples until Jesus was glorified (resurrected) John 12:16.
2 Timothy 1:9-10 It was given before creation so, John 17:24 we will be where He is when we are resurrected, Jesus was given glory with the Father before all creation in God's mind and plan. Ephesians 1:4
I hope this makes sense I am not the best at this.
Thank you and I do not mind, I just sent this to S Spencer, I once believed Jesus preexisted but some things just did not feel right, 2 Cor. 11:3-4 stood out. I will do my best to give my understanding starting with Rev. 3:14. The beginning of the creation of God. God has no beginning or end, I understand this as God's plan for all creation began with Jesus, God's Son and all creation came after until all is made new, we were in this plan.
God declared the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:10. God brought forth Jesus from His plan in the fullness of time, and Jesus's physical existence began with the miraculous virgin birth of our Lord from heaven, Ephesians 1:101 Corinthians 15:47. How this virgin conception was done by the Holy Ghost I have no clue; Jesus is the begotten Son of God if anything is begotten it has a beginning.
Jesus was the second man who came into this world without sin, Man had to live a perfect life to fulfill the law that was placed on man to make it void, Romans 3:19-20. Jesus as a man did this and paid the price that through Him is the only way to our Father John 14:6. My understanding of Jesus being the first in God's creation and everything came by Him and for Him and through Him and when Jesus completed what purpose His Father sent Him to do Jesus became heir of all that God created after Him, Hebrews 1:2. I will do my best to give my understanding although we may not agree we can see and study the other side.
In Isaiah 40:17-18 says, "All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
To whom then will ye liken God? Or what likeness will ye compare unto him?"
Isaiah 46:5, 9 "To whom will ye liken Me; and make Me equal, and compare Me, that we may be like?....For I am God, there is none else, I am God, and there is none like Me."
Psalm 86:8 says, "Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O LORD; neither are there any works like unto thy works."
This is not saying that there actually are truly any other gods, but that none of the idols can compare to God.
God is incomparable to any other being. He created all other beings, so none of these beings is or can become God.
God became man in Jesus, but no man has or every will become God or a god.
Angels and humans are creations of God, they are not a duplicate or reproduction of God. He said He would not make any gods after Him. His essence is unique, (one of a kind) and only the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit possess this essence that marks their divinity as being solely non-communicable to another being. Divinity is innate in God, it cannot be separated from Him, nor can it be acquired from Him by any other being.
Satan thought that He could become like God or equal to God. He tempted Adam and Eve with this same idea. But neither Satan nor Adam and Eve became divine in any way. And neither will we.
Part 3: SOME ARE CALLED "GODS" OR "SONS OF GOD" IN SCRIPTURES
Exodus 7:1 says "And the LORD said to Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharoah: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet."
God was not changing Moses into a god here. He was indicating that Moses was to be God's representative before Pharoah.
Psalm 82:1-6 says "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and needy; rid them out of the hand of the wicked
It appears you're reading Isaiah 46. If you read Bel and the Dragon 1, in 1611 KJV, on this site, Deuteronomy 32:49, Jeremiah 48:1, Isaiah 46:1, may be easier.
Please don't be discouraged, Isaiah to me is a very complex book. I am also having difficulty reading it & studying it this time. The Book of Isaiah seems to be best to read slowly with prayer for understanding. James 1:5,
I also have been pausing to look deeper into the meanings of what's being said, by using the search options on this website. When we understand more about the names mentioned we sometimes understand more fully what GOD is saying through Isaiah. 2Timothy 2:15,
If God is causing you to want to study his word, the the KJV is the best.
The Spirit of Christ, through chosen men to write the words down, wrote the bible.
That same Spirit is actually the life IN YOU, you are just his body.
This life IN YOU will cause you to understand his words, just start reading, and each time you read more and more truth will be given to you, just talk to the life in you, he will answer, It's like talking to yourself, because he is you, and you are him.
1 John 2:27 But the anointing which you have received of him ABIDETH IN YOU, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
John 14:6 ....I AM TRUTH .....I AM LIFE ......
This is what ABIDES IN YOU, Christ himself, as the Holy Ghost, and truth will set you free.
Sometimes the more I read the more confused I get . I love the KJV but really don't understand all. Is there a version of the Bible that would help me?
Interesting thread, can we understand the wisdom of God? God is light and no darkness is in Him. "God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man". Can we understand what was done to Job? Can we understand why God allowed Satan limited control over the earth? Do we know why all the deaths, wars, and evil are allowed to be on earth? Do we overlook Jesus was sacrificed not only to reconcile things on the earth but also to reconcile things in heaven Colossians 1:20?
Did God allow Adam and Eve to sin? God has declared the end from the beginning and many things we have not been told, there come speculation that man is good at, self-included. There are two Adams in scripture and God's plan was before the world was. Can we ask the question, was the first Adam's purpose to start mankind; or was it for the same reason the last Adam was manifested that Satan had no clue? 1 John 3:8.
Isaiah 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
We cannot come close to grasping the wisdom of God and His plan. We must humble ourselves; we have been given a choice to accept the grace God has given us in the sacrifice of His only begotten Son. If we accept this gift of salvation, we give this fleshly life to Him.
God is in control, not free will, whether we understand it or not and we must trust God with what happens to us in this life even if we are killed. A time is coming when many will be. Our hope is not in this life but in the life to come.
Ephesians 1:3-10. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places( IN CHRIST:)
According as he hath chosen us
( IN HIM ) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted ( IN THE BELOVED.)
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times HE MIGHT GATHER TOGETHER( IN ONE ) ALL THINGS IN CHRIST, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even IN HIM:
So we have a way and a body ( The body of Christ ) that was fore ordained before the foundation of the world that we have been baptized into.
God stands on the out side of time and sees the beginning and the end of the life of man like a picture. He's is foreknowing and his omniscience is not confounded by the present, It's future.
Psalms 139:2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought AFAR OFF.
Example: Isaiah 46:10.
1 Peter 1:19-20 also tells us God knew Adam would sin. "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
No one is predetermined as you put it but God knows before hand who would come to him so by his foreknowledge he uses us as vessels as seen in Romans 9:21.
Interesting question, this is my understanding, all the trees in the garden that they could eat from, even the Tree of Life, if they chose to eat, they were not forbidden to eat of it. God planted this tree of, knowledge of good and evil as well, and commanded Adam and Eve not to eat and if they did it meant surely die. This tree could have been any fruit, it was the breaking of God's commandment that made it forbidden.
What do we have in us that tells us good or evil? It is our conscience; it is the knowledge of good and evil the battleground of the Spirit and the flesh. When Adam and Eve ate of that tree and broke God's commandment the sin nature entered mankind and they received a conscience, or it was awakened to the knowledge to know the difference, they knew they were naked.
There are many opinions on Adam and Eve but was it by chance they would eat or not eat of this tree? Do we write it off to free will to think God did not know and was not in control? Isaiah 46:9-10. They were not the first to sin, John 8:44 and in scripture, there are two Adams, the first Adam a living soul and the last Adam a quickening spirit. There was the first man earthy, and there is the second man the Lord (Jesus) from heaven. and millions in between and millions since, all part of God's plan. 1 Corinthians 15:45-49
One purpose Jesus was manifested that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 Was the first Adams purpose part of this plan we overlook, and Satan was blind to, like Jesus' crucifixion?
Isaiah 46:9-13. Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness:
I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
I'm glad you asked. Mr. D'Ambrosio, I had referred so many scriptures to you that I didn't want to overwhelm, even though I had not finished completely what I wanted to point out in scripture.
John 17, whole chapter, note vrs. 20 & 21, John 3:15-16,
Prophecy & prophecy fulfilled
Isaiah 46:13, Jeremiah 3:23, Genesis 49:18, Luke 2, Luke 3:4-6, Isaiah 53, Luke 23, Psalms 22, Psalms 118:19-22,
We are grafted in: Romans 11, whole chapter,
Hopefully these are helpful, there are many more scriptures. Let me know if you would like more.
God has declared the end from the beginning, He is in total control and it is hard for us to grasp with our human minds. It is for His pleasure and His glory and His counsel shall stand Isaiah 46:10. It is beyond our understanding, like what God allowed Satan to do to Job. I was not blessed with children and I cannot pretend to know how I would feel if I lost every child I had, along with all I owned. Do we have that kind of faith? The times are coming for those who are living when the end of days begins, it will take that kind of faith.
God uses people good and bad to do His will. Look at Pharaoh, God raised him to do His will Exodus 9:16. God named King Cyrus of Persia by name before he is even born to serve Him, Isaiah 45, and more.
I feel Jesus answers this, God gave the disciples to Jesus, and Judas was given to fulfill scripture. God knew who he was and he is one of two who is called the son of perdition.
John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
I gave my understanding of these verses; we can see a similarity in scripture throughout the Bible but the context of the chapter or chapters helps understanding. If you feel this is about end time that is ok. Cyrus did defeat Babylon but God called him His servant that would free God's people, end their punishment of 70 years, and help them rebuild the temple.
You are the 1st person to say that in over a year of posting, thank you. My work prompts fellow Americans to entertain the painful reality of who we are, and why we go by way of the Dodo. People don't like to look in the mirror, and they forget what's in the rear-view mirror. I know prophesy like I know my family, but it serves little good to those full of national pride. Once you get a feel for the narrative, it turns into a game of concentration, matching up each prophet's point of view, the language shared, of the same event being described. I am self taught from the ground up, therefore, I don't seek out scholarly direction, or read publications that are inherently wrong, and based on misguided bias. Allowing the Bible to define itself is the best approach to garnering the truth. Have a great day!
You can't see the connection besides the obvious, that both Cyrus and anti-christ destroy Babylon? You can't see similarities between the attacks? Much of what God proclaims of Cyrus can be found in anti-christ.
Anti-christ posses every characteristic that previous empires boasted, to include Persia. ( Daniel 7)
The references are short and subtle here, but none the less, the association is evident. Don't sell yourself short on the depth of richness offered by the prophets.
Isaiah 46:11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel FROM A FAR COUNTRY: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
Isaiah 13:5 They come FROM A FAR COUNTRY, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
This reveals shared anti-christ traits, his many descriptions, here a ravenous bird from the east that executes God's will. It is all connected, even in small ways. God holds the right hand of Cyrus, sanctified in him to do God's will, like anti-christ.
Below you can see the similarity, the order, God is one with anti-christ (like Cyrus) in battle, and is delighted with His army that's about to destroy Babylon. God even calls anti-christ's army "His sanctified ones" (like Cyrus). This theme mirrors many other accounts, for example:
( Isaiah 13:1-7) specifically vs 5:
1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.
4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
No. the one hundred and forty four thousand represents the 12 tribes of Israel. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. That will be a lot more that one hundred and fourth four thousand people.
Yes, Jehovah ( psalm 83:18) prophesied or was revealing to Isaiah about Cyrus ( Isaiah 44:28)
he (King of Persia) helped rebuild Jerusalem ( Daniel 10:1). yes, if a prophecy hasn't yet happened... it will happen; and it will be fulfilled and accomplished. ( Isaiah 46:10,11)
Fulfilled Prophecy:
Destruction of Jerusalem 70 c.e ( Luke 21:5,6; John 4:21)
This is not about the end times; this was during their captivity in Babylon. They were making idols and worshiping them and they were loading down the wagons with so much gold, and silver it was putting a burden on the animals. God through Isaiah was telling them how useless and regardless of how many idols they made would not deliver them from the burden of captivity.
In verse 9 God is telling them to remember the things of old, He is reminding them how He was who brought them out of Egypt. Telling them "I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me".
Verse 10, there have been prophecies given in ancient time that have been fulfilled but a few have not but, we can see the prophecies that have been fulfilled gives us total assurance the ones that have not been fulfilled will be, "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"
Verse 11 ravenous bird, this bird is King Cyrus, who was named long before he was born and prophesied through Jerimiah, that we see come to be in Ezra1:1 King Cyrus was God's servant that freed them to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple. "that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled". The emblem of King Cyrus was a Golden Eagle.
And what God says we can have total faith will be done, "I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it". Verses 12and 13 are kind of where we are today. Those who are not born again need to repent and accept Jesus, for the righteousness that is in Jesus our savior is near, and the end time appears to be close.
This is about anti-christ, his many descriptions, here a ravenous bird from the east that executes God's will. Below you can see God is one with anti-christ in battle, and is delighted with His army that's about to destroy Babylon. God even calls anti-christ's army "His sanctified ones". This theme mirrors many other accounts, for example:
( Isaiah 13:1-7) specifically vs 5:
1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.
4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
God's eternal purpose
Jesus the Messiah/Christ God's only begotten Son is the purpose, I do not know if I am reading your question correctly, may you and others have more or different understandings.
1 Corinthians 2:16 tells us we have the mind of Christ, but no one can know the mind of God. 2 Peter 3:18 tells us to grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus. All began with Jesus; Jesus is the beginning of God's plan. Isaiah 45:18 Isaiah 46:8-10 God and there is none like Him, He declared the end from the beginning His counsel (His purpose and plan by His will) shall stand and God will do all His pleasure, Psalms 33:11.
God is not in our time the end of His plan is as the beginning God's plan was completed when He made it, we have the Bible, and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit His plan is made known to us as our time comes to be, as in Ephesians 1:10-12 to be the praise and glory to God.
God declared from the very beginnings of history, Acts 17:24-26 there is but one human race, we all are of the same blood, and in Jesus Christ we become brothers and sisters. In God's plan, it is finished, nothing will change. In God, it is finished already to Him who is from everlasting to everlasting, Psalms 90:2 and how He can "calleth those things which be not as though they were." Romans 4:17-18.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
God bless,
RLW
Part 1 Trinity discussion
To start; I used to have a similar understanding of the Trinity doctrine but over time it has changed, and I am still studying it. I do not consider myself part of any group or denomination other than a believer and follower of Jesus. I feel we should inspire each other to study in prayer for the truth and to be open to the Holy Spirit to unveil the truth as we know nothing.
With me, it started with two verses, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4, I contemplated these verses for a long time, it was like they stuck in my mind unanswered. In my study of the Trinity, I found out how it developed and how many deaths it caused even after the Reformation, and the questions I asked in Churches, many could not explain it and said it is a mystery that man cannot comprehend.
Is God and has He always been one solitary person?
Deut. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD, Mark 12:29 and as said in 1 Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. My understanding is God the Father is eternal He has always been and will always be Psalms 90:2. God is Spirit, if a person means He has a will, emotions, the ability to speak, rationalize, self-awareness, to have a relationship with His creation, love, hate, etc. yes one person.
Before creation was, He always and only alone, without anyone to love?
What was before creation in Scripture we have no writings or information, Scripture tells us the hosts of heaven were before the creation of the earth and the galaxies, Job 38:4-7. How long before the physical world and universe we see we do not know. God's plan He declared the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:9-10. I may be wrong, but God has never been alone inside Himself, time nor space cannot contain who He is, the beginning of His plan was Jesus.
See part 2
Part two
Vs 5 The plan of God, predetermined glory, Jesus knew the Scriptures. All that was to happen to Him and the glory He would receive after He suffered on the cross had already been spoken by the prophets in the past tense as though they had already happened.
As Jesus was on the road to Emmaus in Luke 24:25-26, He talks about them not believing what the prophets had written about what was to happen to Jesus. The first man to be raised from the dead in a glorified body and God placed Him on His right hand on the throne a man, not a god.
Jesus was a man who was tempted like us and fulfilled all His Father asked Him we see hundreds of prophecies Jesus fulfilled and the man Jesus did it without one sin. Only a man could undo what the first man did. God could not do that because He cannot sin or die. The law was made for man and the curse of sin was on man, not God.
In Verses 20-22, Jesus had not yet been crucified and the glory the Father had given Him Jesus has given it to us today "but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;" This glory we will receive when Jesus returns and we are resurrected in our glorified bodies, we have it now, but it will not be manifest until Jesus returns.
If Jesus was a co-equal God in the three-person God, how could He be given anything He would already have it? Malachi 3:6 says God does not change so God cannot change, Numbers 23:19 Isaiah 46:10 Psalm 33:11 Acts 17:26 The glory Jesus was asking for, He would receive when He resurrected.
The Spirit could not be given because Jesus had not been glorified (resurrected) John 7:39 Things were hidden from the disciples until Jesus was glorified (resurrected) John 12:16.
2 Timothy 1:9-10 It was given before creation so, John 17:24 we will be where He is when we are resurrected, Jesus was given glory with the Father before all creation in God's mind and plan. Ephesians 1:4
I hope this makes sense I am not the best at this.
God bless,
RLW
Part 1
Thank you and I do not mind, I just sent this to S Spencer, I once believed Jesus preexisted but some things just did not feel right, 2 Cor. 11:3-4 stood out. I will do my best to give my understanding starting with Rev. 3:14. The beginning of the creation of God. God has no beginning or end, I understand this as God's plan for all creation began with Jesus, God's Son and all creation came after until all is made new, we were in this plan.
God declared the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:10. God brought forth Jesus from His plan in the fullness of time, and Jesus's physical existence began with the miraculous virgin birth of our Lord from heaven, Ephesians 1:10 1 Corinthians 15:47. How this virgin conception was done by the Holy Ghost I have no clue; Jesus is the begotten Son of God if anything is begotten it has a beginning.
Jesus was the second man who came into this world without sin, Man had to live a perfect life to fulfill the law that was placed on man to make it void, Romans 3:19-20. Jesus as a man did this and paid the price that through Him is the only way to our Father John 14:6. My understanding of Jesus being the first in God's creation and everything came by Him and for Him and through Him and when Jesus completed what purpose His Father sent Him to do Jesus became heir of all that God created after Him, Hebrews 1:2. I will do my best to give my understanding although we may not agree we can see and study the other side.
See part 2.
God bless,
RLW
Part 2 continued
In Isaiah 40:17-18 says, "All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
To whom then will ye liken God? Or what likeness will ye compare unto him?"
Isaiah 46:5, 9 "To whom will ye liken Me; and make Me equal, and compare Me, that we may be like?....For I am God, there is none else, I am God, and there is none like Me."
Psalm 86:8 says, "Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O LORD; neither are there any works like unto thy works."
This is not saying that there actually are truly any other gods, but that none of the idols can compare to God.
God is incomparable to any other being. He created all other beings, so none of these beings is or can become God.
God became man in Jesus, but no man has or every will become God or a god.
Angels and humans are creations of God, they are not a duplicate or reproduction of God. He said He would not make any gods after Him. His essence is unique, (one of a kind) and only the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit possess this essence that marks their divinity as being solely non-communicable to another being. Divinity is innate in God, it cannot be separated from Him, nor can it be acquired from Him by any other being.
Satan thought that He could become like God or equal to God. He tempted Adam and Eve with this same idea. But neither Satan nor Adam and Eve became divine in any way. And neither will we.
Part 3: SOME ARE CALLED "GODS" OR "SONS OF GOD" IN SCRIPTURES
Exodus 7:1 says "And the LORD said to Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharoah: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet."
God was not changing Moses into a god here. He was indicating that Moses was to be God's representative before Pharoah.
Psalm 82:1-6 says "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and needy; rid them out of the hand of the wicked
Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.
as both of the comment above Its by prayer remember to start by asking God to help you understand his words .
God is faithful
.i find KJ bible the best version and also i use (Macarthur study bible) useful.
It appears you're reading Isaiah 46. If you read Bel and the Dragon 1, in 1611 KJV, on this site, Deuteronomy 32:49, Jeremiah 48:1, Isaiah 46:1, may be easier.
Please don't be discouraged, Isaiah to me is a very complex book. I am also having difficulty reading it & studying it this time. The Book of Isaiah seems to be best to read slowly with prayer for understanding. James 1:5,
I also have been pausing to look deeper into the meanings of what's being said, by using the search options on this website. When we understand more about the names mentioned we sometimes understand more fully what GOD is saying through Isaiah. 2Timothy 2:15,
Hopefully this is helpful
If God is causing you to want to study his word, the the KJV is the best.
The Spirit of Christ, through chosen men to write the words down, wrote the bible.
That same Spirit is actually the life IN YOU, you are just his body.
This life IN YOU will cause you to understand his words, just start reading, and each time you read more and more truth will be given to you, just talk to the life in you, he will answer, It's like talking to yourself, because he is you, and you are him.
1 John 2:27 But the anointing which you have received of him ABIDETH IN YOU, and you need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
John 14:6 ....I AM TRUTH .....I AM LIFE ......
This is what ABIDES IN YOU, Christ himself, as the Holy Ghost, and truth will set you free.
Interesting thread, can we understand the wisdom of God? God is light and no darkness is in Him. "God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man". Can we understand what was done to Job? Can we understand why God allowed Satan limited control over the earth? Do we know why all the deaths, wars, and evil are allowed to be on earth? Do we overlook Jesus was sacrificed not only to reconcile things on the earth but also to reconcile things in heaven Colossians 1:20?
Did God allow Adam and Eve to sin? God has declared the end from the beginning and many things we have not been told, there come speculation that man is good at, self-included. There are two Adams in scripture and God's plan was before the world was. Can we ask the question, was the first Adam's purpose to start mankind; or was it for the same reason the last Adam was manifested that Satan had no clue? 1 John 3:8.
Isaiah 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
We cannot come close to grasping the wisdom of God and His plan. We must humble ourselves; we have been given a choice to accept the grace God has given us in the sacrifice of His only begotten Son. If we accept this gift of salvation, we give this fleshly life to Him.
God is in control, not free will, whether we understand it or not and we must trust God with what happens to us in this life even if we are killed. A time is coming when many will be. Our hope is not in this life but in the life to come.
Job 38:1-4 Micah 4:12 1 Corinthians 2:14 Revelation 10:7
God bless,
RLW
Please notice what's highlighted.
Ephesians 1:3-10. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places( IN CHRIST:)
According as he hath chosen us
( IN HIM ) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted ( IN THE BELOVED.)
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times HE MIGHT GATHER TOGETHER( IN ONE ) ALL THINGS IN CHRIST, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even IN HIM:
So we have a way and a body ( The body of Christ ) that was fore ordained before the foundation of the world that we have been baptized into.
God stands on the out side of time and sees the beginning and the end of the life of man like a picture. He's is foreknowing and his omniscience is not confounded by the present, It's future.
Psalms 139:2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought AFAR OFF.
Example: Isaiah 46:10.
1 Peter 1:19-20 also tells us God knew Adam would sin. "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
No one is predetermined as you put it but God knows before hand who would come to him so by his foreknowledge he uses us as vessels as seen in Romans 9:21.
I hope this helps
God bless.
Genesis 1, Hebrews 1:10,
Revelation 21:6, Revelation 22:13, John 1:1-5, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:18, Luke 24:27, Revelation 3:14, Revelation 1:8,
Psalms 80:15-17, symbolic? Genesis 2, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, Zechariah 3:8, Zechariah 6:12, John 15,
Isaiah 53, Luke 23, Psalms 22, Mark 15:34, Mark 15, in context
Hebrews 9:24-28,
The last, 1Corinthians 15:45, Romans 5:12-21, John 19:30,
Hopefully these are all helpful in your study
Interesting question, this is my understanding, all the trees in the garden that they could eat from, even the Tree of Life, if they chose to eat, they were not forbidden to eat of it. God planted this tree of, knowledge of good and evil as well, and commanded Adam and Eve not to eat and if they did it meant surely die. This tree could have been any fruit, it was the breaking of God's commandment that made it forbidden.
What do we have in us that tells us good or evil? It is our conscience; it is the knowledge of good and evil the battleground of the Spirit and the flesh. When Adam and Eve ate of that tree and broke God's commandment the sin nature entered mankind and they received a conscience, or it was awakened to the knowledge to know the difference, they knew they were naked.
There are many opinions on Adam and Eve but was it by chance they would eat or not eat of this tree? Do we write it off to free will to think God did not know and was not in control? Isaiah 46:9-10. They were not the first to sin, John 8:44 and in scripture, there are two Adams, the first Adam a living soul and the last Adam a quickening spirit. There was the first man earthy, and there is the second man the Lord (Jesus) from heaven. and millions in between and millions since, all part of God's plan. 1 Corinthians 15:45-49
One purpose Jesus was manifested that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 Was the first Adams purpose part of this plan we overlook, and Satan was blind to, like Jesus' crucifixion?
Just my understanding.
God bless,
RLW
Th way we know God is " The God of the Bible "
Is perhaps prophecy surrounding Israel.
Isaiah 46:9-13. Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness:
I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
Back to bed I go.
God bless.
John 17, whole chapter, note vrs. 20 & 21, John 3:15-16,
Prophecy & prophecy fulfilled
Isaiah 46:13, Jeremiah 3:23, Genesis 49:18, Luke 2, Luke 3:4-6, Isaiah 53, Luke 23, Psalms 22, Psalms 118:19-22,
We are grafted in: Romans 11, whole chapter,
Hopefully these are helpful, there are many more scriptures. Let me know if you would like more.
God has declared the end from the beginning, He is in total control and it is hard for us to grasp with our human minds. It is for His pleasure and His glory and His counsel shall stand Isaiah 46:10. It is beyond our understanding, like what God allowed Satan to do to Job. I was not blessed with children and I cannot pretend to know how I would feel if I lost every child I had, along with all I owned. Do we have that kind of faith? The times are coming for those who are living when the end of days begins, it will take that kind of faith.
God uses people good and bad to do His will. Look at Pharaoh, God raised him to do His will Exodus 9:16. God named King Cyrus of Persia by name before he is even born to serve Him, Isaiah 45, and more.
I feel Jesus answers this, God gave the disciples to Jesus, and Judas was given to fulfill scripture. God knew who he was and he is one of two who is called the son of perdition.
John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
God bless,
RLW
The word is From God. I Appreciate it!
( 2 Timothy 3:16,17)
I gave my understanding of these verses; we can see a similarity in scripture throughout the Bible but the context of the chapter or chapters helps understanding. If you feel this is about end time that is ok. Cyrus did defeat Babylon but God called him His servant that would free God's people, end their punishment of 70 years, and help them rebuild the temple.
Have a great day,
RLW
You are the 1st person to say that in over a year of posting, thank you. My work prompts fellow Americans to entertain the painful reality of who we are, and why we go by way of the Dodo. People don't like to look in the mirror, and they forget what's in the rear-view mirror. I know prophesy like I know my family, but it serves little good to those full of national pride. Once you get a feel for the narrative, it turns into a game of concentration, matching up each prophet's point of view, the language shared, of the same event being described. I am self taught from the ground up, therefore, I don't seek out scholarly direction, or read publications that are inherently wrong, and based on misguided bias. Allowing the Bible to define itself is the best approach to garnering the truth. Have a great day!
teachable contribution. Be blessed always.
Anti-christ posses every characteristic that previous empires boasted, to include Persia. ( Daniel 7)
The references are short and subtle here, but none the less, the association is evident. Don't sell yourself short on the depth of richness offered by the prophets.
Isaiah 46:11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel FROM A FAR COUNTRY: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
Isaiah 13:5 They come FROM A FAR COUNTRY, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
Below you can see the similarity, the order, God is one with anti-christ (like Cyrus) in battle, and is delighted with His army that's about to destroy Babylon. God even calls anti-christ's army "His sanctified ones" (like Cyrus). This theme mirrors many other accounts, for example:
( Isaiah 13:1-7) specifically vs 5:
1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.
4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
he (King of Persia) helped rebuild Jerusalem ( Daniel 10:1). yes, if a prophecy hasn't yet happened... it will happen; and it will be fulfilled and accomplished. ( Isaiah 46:10,11)
Fulfilled Prophecy:
Destruction of Jerusalem 70 c.e ( Luke 21:5,6; John 4:21)
Unfulfilled Prophecy:
Revelation 18&20 ( 1John 5:19; Revelation 12:7-12)
Revelation 21:3-4
Revelation 22 ( Matthew 24:14; Daniel 2:44)
Hope this helps
This is not about the end times; this was during their captivity in Babylon. They were making idols and worshiping them and they were loading down the wagons with so much gold, and silver it was putting a burden on the animals. God through Isaiah was telling them how useless and regardless of how many idols they made would not deliver them from the burden of captivity.
In verse 9 God is telling them to remember the things of old, He is reminding them how He was who brought them out of Egypt. Telling them "I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me".
Verse 10, there have been prophecies given in ancient time that have been fulfilled but a few have not but, we can see the prophecies that have been fulfilled gives us total assurance the ones that have not been fulfilled will be, "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"
Verse 11 ravenous bird, this bird is King Cyrus, who was named long before he was born and prophesied through Jerimiah, that we see come to be in Ezra1:1 King Cyrus was God's servant that freed them to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple. "that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled". The emblem of King Cyrus was a Golden Eagle.
And what God says we can have total faith will be done, "I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it". Verses 12and 13 are kind of where we are today. Those who are not born again need to repent and accept Jesus, for the righteousness that is in Jesus our savior is near, and the end time appears to be close.
This is short but I hope it helps,
God bless,
RLW
( Isaiah 13:1-7) specifically vs 5:
1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness.
4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.
5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: