Discuss Isaiah 45 Page 4

  • Vincent - In Reply on Judges 7 - 3 years ago
    Hi Richard, it's me again.

    Actually God said "you S H A L L surely die" referring to the entire creation that's why we see animals, trees and everything lives then die. You see, the whole concept of death is God's plan from the start. It's not because of Adam and Eve's sin that death came to the creation; Adam and Eve activated the death process by obedience to the spirit of evil which the serpent was possessed with. God created EVIL ( Isaiah 45:7) and did so for a purpose. God is the creator of all things seen and unseen. God also said in ( Isaiah 55:11) the words of His mouth will not go forth void, so when the words EVIL and DEATH left God's mouth they now become apart of His creation. When and where did God created EVIL? This happened in the garden of Eden where God said "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." This word evil left His mouth and will do it's purposed which is sin then sin will do it's purpose which is death.

    I pray you understand God's purpose of balance. By this I mean, everything has it's equal and it's opposite like left with right, back with front, top with bottom, hot and cold etc.

    God saw what He created was good but He never declared it so, therefore all things created was for a temporary purpose of knowledge and the next phase of God's creation will be the permanent and the everlasting perfection. The word evil will never be mentioned again, by then it's purpose would have been complete and will never ever be in existence. PRAISE THE LORD JESUS.
  • Adam - In Reply on Judges 7 - 3 years ago
    Hello, those are interesting questions. If you got a fishtank and stocked it full of fish, but noticed one fish harassing, assaulting, and killing the other fish through relentless mean attacks... would you show mercy to the 99% of the fish (peaceful) and kill the evil mean fish. Or would you show 'mercy' to the evil mean fish, and show no mercy or justice to the 99% of the fish and let them continue to suffer?

    Satan is pure evil and destroys countless lives, dragging everyone down. Why should evil be rewarded? Isn't rewarding evil actually harmful to everyone else who strives to do what is right?

    Maybe you like your community, like your family, and maybe have precious daughters you love. Let's say your state governor tried to show 'mercy' to a prisoner and let him out and he moved in next door. He was convicted of horrific crimes against young girls and now lives next door. And he's watching as your kids play out in the yard while you're at work. Are you 100% ok with that? What if he then assaults your daughters, are you still ok with that? Because mercy, right?

    The point is people often see one side of 'mercy' and don't always acknowlege that rewarding one person's evil can steal from others and harm them- and that's not truly merciful if you're harming others.

    So, why doesn't God just create a bunch of robots that are 100% perfect? He loved us enough to give us the freedom to choose. Which is more meaningful to you? If your spouse and kids be forced to say I love you, or if they say it voluntarily and mean it? The latter of course and that's one reason God gave you the freedom to choose to follow Him or not. He won't force you to spend eternity with Him if you don't want to.

    Finally, the 'evil' in Isaiah 45:7 means environmental evil like natural disasters, not a moral evil. God is perfect is cannot sin against Himself. He is loving and merciful and loves you enough to give you freewill. Most choose evil, but some choose good.

    God bless...
  • Darren Croft - In Reply on Judges 7 - 3 years ago
    Why does God have to kill the devil, toss him in the lake of fire? Why can't Jesus baptize the devil, show him a little sympathy?

    If Isaiah 45:7 states that God creates the evil, then what is God's punishment?
  • Ajjos - In Reply on Acts 8 - 3 years ago
    No.

    Ezekiel 27 & 28 describes the King of Tyre as making himself a "god" and was called a "cherub" and referenced "Eden, the garden of God" This Cherub was "perfect" in beauty, faultless in his ways from creation onward until unrighteousness was found in him. Ez 27:3, 28:12,15

    Isaiah 42:12 Reference the God of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Joseph, David, Josiah, Ezekiel, John the Baptist, Jesus, the Apostles, etc. This Almighty God of Israel is the creator of all living things. In Psalms 83:18 he is called Jehovah God.

    If you look in one of the earliest King James Bible of 1611 you'll see that name. Most modern translations have removed that name and substituted it with Lord claiming since the original pronunciation was lost it makes sense to remove it as if the Almighty doesn't exist. Also the divine name Jehovah or Adhonai or Elohim in some translation appears in the Tetragrammaton close to 7000 times so removing the name removes the knowledge and understanding of the Almighty and creates confusion. He just wasn't a tribal God in Isaiah 54:5 it says "....He will be called the God of the whole earth." Psalm 124:8 Jehovah is called the maker of heaven and earth.

    Jesus who was a Jew also recognized the God of Israel as being Jehovah or Yahweh. Remember the Jewish clergy during the time of Jesus wanted to bring charges against Jesus in order to put him to death for blashemy so any of worship or acknowledgement he gave to any other god would have given them this opportunity. Plus Genesis 17:1, Isaiah 45:18, Psalm 83:18 refers to Jehovah God being one God. Deuteronomy 6:4,5 also call Jehovah one Jehovah. This is in harmony with Mark 12:29, Romans 3:29-30, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:4-6, 1 Timothy 2:5 all these scriptures refer to one God.

    For Jesus to believe in multiple gods or a triune god would be paramount to apostasy for a Jew and thus grounds for death. Also Roman Zeus was a triune god and existed during this time.
  • Kevin Andrew Jernigan on Isaiah 45:3 - 3 years ago
    I found something sacred and significant..hidden very secretly only for trustworthy people to inherit.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Isaiah 26 - 3 years ago
    Hi Marilyn, Evil didn't start in Eden, Isaiah 45:7, I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. I think you are meaning "The tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil" Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. What happened to man wants he ate of that tree? Genesis 3:7, And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were "NAKED"; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. naked in the bible often expresses sin exposed, and garments often expresses righteousness. Some would say Adam and Eve was clothed with light before the fall, The question is when did they become naked/sinful? When they bit of the fruit? I believe eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil revealed their nakedness to them, The issue was what they did afterwards, "clothed themselves". Their fall was no surprise to God, he set forth the plan of redemption before the world begun, 1st Peter 1:18-20. Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world. The scripture says by one man sin entered the world, not evil. I believe there is a difference between the two by means of definition. Apart from the Holy Spirit man is flesh and lost in the wilderness, and easy prey for Satan. In the millennium man will have a thousand years in the best conditions to evolve with Satan chained up, and prove himself. but after all those years of practice here is what happens. Revelation 20:7-8, And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth. THKS
  • Steven Spencer - In Reply on Isaiah 45:5 - 3 years ago
    Alex you left out a couple of verses. Exodus 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 3:14-15 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

    And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
  • Jack Gutknecht - In Reply on Isaiah 45:5 - 3 years ago
    Interesting, Chris!
  • Alex on Isaiah 45:5 - 3 years ago
    Alex comments about Exodus 3 v 15 God tells Moses that he is the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob and that is my NAME forever and my memorial to All generations .
  • Chris - In Reply on Isaiah 45:5 - 3 years ago
    Isaiah 45:7, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

    These verses from verse 1 to 7, is a discourse to Cyrus, the Persian King, revealing Who this God is, Who will use the king as His instrument. So verse 7 comes as a further reminder to Cyrus that this God is unlike anyone else: He creates Light & He has the power to remove it (once Light from a source is removed, darkness prevails - it's the default with light's absence). He can bring about peace (or, happiness, prosperity) & also can remove that (thereby evil will become present & rampant, as a default state, with Satan's affectation upon man & the world). The Lord has the power to do all things, which the Persian gods could never do.

    To be able to correctly understand the 'behaviour' of a Holy God Who can do no evil, for evil is never present within Him, the only way that I can read this verse, is to know that the God Who creates, can also remove (i.e. the opposite is 'created') & not that God has any unjustified evil planned that He wants to create. However, it is true, God does bring on 'evil', as in consigning men to hell, but that comes as a justified punishment for man's disobedience & rejection of Him.
  • Robert Malit - In Reply on Isaiah 45:5 - 3 years ago
    Light = good = understanding and knowledge Christians gained from the written word of God

    Darkness = evil = trials, tribulations and all sorts of problems encountered by Christians = use by God to test our faith in God

    If & when Christians chose not to rely on own understanding, seek God's wisdom, able to go through trials/problems, by faith able to solve problems. During the process - made mistakes but learned new things - what works, what doesn't work gained wisdom, leads to success

    Prosperity - successful life on earth while having intimate fellowship with God.

    Disaster - however, if and when Christians because of prideful desires, chose not to seek God's guidance, continue to struggle, makes mistakes after mistakes, discouraged, get addicted into something - bring disaster to self - broken relationships.

    God created all these things for our common good. God loves us, gave us freedom to see the light, darkness, prosperity and disaster to teach us lessons, to purge and cleanse us from our self-centered free will walking in the flesh versus walking in the spirit.
  • M - In Reply on Isaiah 45:5 - 3 years ago
    I remember reading that the first time and thinking the same thing.

    The first thing I'd say is not to use NIV, instead use KJV. Modern translations are less accurate.

    God created people, and is therefore responsible for His creations. As an example, if someone chooses to do someone else harm for an unholy reason, that person must reap what they've sown. It's up to God to give that person a perfect punishment(assuming they are unrepenting nonbelievers), and in order to do that God must create a situation in which there's a fitting disaster for them. Only then is "balance" restored, and do people get what they deserve.

    Loving doesn't mean God won't uphold morality and justice, but it does mean He is merciful.

    Disaster exists because of sin. God doesn't enjoy causing disaster, but it is necessary.
  • Jack Gutknecht on Isaiah 45:5 - 3 years ago
    Why would a loving God "create darkness" and "disaster"? ( Isaiah 45:7)

    7 I form the light and create darkness,

    I bring prosperity and create disaster;

    I, the Lord, do all these things. (NIV)
  • Anne - In Reply on Isaiah 45:7 - 3 years ago
    Heaven on Earth...
  • Chris - In Reply on Isaiah 45:14 - 3 years ago
    That's a good 'catch', noticing the words, "there is no God" in Isaiah 45:14. In Hebrew, the LORD in the first part of the verse, is 'Yahweh', but in the latter part of the verse, it is "El" & "Elohim", which can used of the true God but allows for use of other gods, angels, kings or judges.

    So in context of the verse, these others (gentiles) that come to Israel will come in brokenness & humility, and acknowledging that "God (El) is the God with Israel, & there is no god (Elohim), there is none else". So it is the cry of the gentiles, though not coming to faith in the true God of Israel, did however acknowledge that there is none beside Him. Since they didn't know the true God as Israel knew God, the word 'El, Elohim' is being used to signify this.
  • Kay on Isaiah 45:14 - 3 years ago
    I don't recall this verse saying, "...there is no God." I recall it as, "...there is no other God."

    If I am incorrect, can anyone provide interpretation or meaning to that specific part of the verse?
  • Mishael - In Reply on Isaiah 45:7 - 3 years ago
    The tree of Life was moved to Heaven.

    Revelation
  • Wayne - In Reply on Isaiah 45:7 - 3 years ago
    12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. evil existed befor adam I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. i couldn't be any clearer
  • Wayne - In Reply on Isaiah 45:7 - 3 years ago
    and your right and here is proof. Genesis 2:9

    "And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."
  • Chris - In Reply on Isaiah 45:12 - 3 years ago
    The clearest Scripture is in Psalm 33:6-9. Other Scriptures: Hebrews 1:2, 11:3, may help.
  • Roger on Isaiah 45:12 - 3 years ago
    Where the world's made by the one true God by the hands of God, or spoken into existence.
  • Wayne - In Reply on 1 Corinthians 1:26 - 3 years ago
    Isaiah 45:5-7 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
  • Chris - In Reply on Luke 11 - 3 years ago
    Dylan, you've touched on several aspects of God's dealing with us.

    Firstly, when the Bible speaks of 'election' it means that God had in the distant past selected those that would be His children, receive His favour & partake of His Kingdom. Israel is said to be His elect (e.g. Isaiah 45:4) & now those also who have now come to Him for salvation through Jesus Christ His Son (e.g. Colossians 3:12). So if a person does not fall into those categories (i.e. Israel & those born again of God's Spirit), they are not classified as the Elect of God. If a person leads a good life & is generous with his goods to others, this still does not make him acceptable to God, since not one person, bar Christ, was ever good enough to please God ( Romans 3:10, 23).

    Now, there's another word similar in meaning to 'election', & that is 'predestination'. These words are almost interchangeable except 'predestination' is used exclusively to born again believers who have been predestined (again, we were appointed before time), to partake in the adoption process. That is, believers might have been elected to be partakers of Kingdom Life, but we have also been appointed to go through the adoption process whereby God, in Love & Mercy, takes someone not in His original family & brings him into His family because of his faith in Jesus Christ. (see Ephesians 1:5, 11). So as a result of our adoption, our predestination into God's Family includes that we don't have Hell as our destiny, but Heaven.

    The Bible doesn't speak of any other place where people who die can go to, except Heaven or Hell. Some religions teach falsely of an intermediary place (e.g. purgatory), for a period of further cleansing so as to enter Heaven, but Jesus always taught that there are only two places ( Matthew 18:1-11, for an example of either entering Heaven or Hell). And the decision we make on Earth now determines where our eventual destiny will be. Some mistakenly believe they are on the right way but..for Proverbs 14:12.
  • Wayne - In Reply on John 1:3 - 3 years ago
    Isaiah 45:5-8 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded theeThat they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
  • Rob on Isaiah 45:5 - 3 years ago
    Isaiah 45 v 5

    God states that there is No God beside me .

    This was way before Jesus ascension up into heaven , correct ?

    So now Jesus is sitting at the Fathers right hand beside God .

    Would God still say this now ?

    Yes Jesus was not there before , and no man hath seen God , but now the man Jesus is at Gods right hand .
  • Wayne - In Reply on Deuteronomy 6:18 - 3 years ago
    Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. It couldn't be clearer. God told Isaiah that He creates evil. And what about Jobs words? Job 2:10 And he said to her: Thou hast spoken like one of the foolish women: If we have received good things at the hand of God, why should we not receive evil?
  • Earl Bowman on Revelation 12 - 3 years ago
    HELL OR NO HELL

    Amos 3:7 Surely, the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

    Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.



    Isaiah 60:14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto the; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet, and shall call thee, The city of the Lord, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.



    Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
  • Rachat on Isaiah 45:23 - 3 years ago
    Hallelujah! glory to the one and true god, even the lord jesus christ
  • Chris - In Reply on Ephesians 2 - 3 years ago
    Karen, I don't read or refer to Ecclesiasticus (Ben Sira), however, there is similar verse in Isaiah 45:7: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

    To read that the LORD makes peace and creates evil can be disturbing to us. I checked on the Hebrew word for Evil as written in this verse: it is 'ra:'. And this speaks not of sin as we understand sin, but of 'adversity or calamity', as when 'evil (a calamity, suffering) may come upon us. So does God even do evil or want to do this to us? Well, He does, in a sense. In this context, it shows that when there is absence of Peace, whether in a person's heart or in worldly affairs, then there must be adversity. A little like Truth & Lies (they are 'absolutes'): if the Truth is not spoken, then the words must be a lie - and there cannot be a mix of Truth & Lies - then it's no longer Truth. So to, the presence of Peace cancels out 'evil'. So the opposite is true: if there is adversity, then no peace.

    So we can't understand this verse as God making it a point to create adversity (evil) for us, rather, that in the absence of His Peace, He permits adversity to be present. It seems to be our choice: if His Peace reigns in us, then no spiritual or emotional calamity will be ours. If we sin, if we're disobedient to His Spirit, then the result is turmoil within.
  • DAN MINER on Isaiah 45:7 - 3 years ago
    The word evil has two meanings. One is wickedness by men. The other is catastrophes by God, such as the Judgement by the global flood.


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