John 10:34- seems to be a popular verse here. People want to believe they are a god, is that what's happening here? That would be a gross misinterpretation. You know this is a quote with a question mark at the end, right? Let's be honest about it. Here's the commentary for that:
Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?
As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?
God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV
You: Word was "NOT" God?
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV
Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?
Isaiah 7:14 -
Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)
This is a good example of flawed logic as referred to earlier.
You seem to suggest you believe Jesus is the Son of God, but can't be God because he's already the Son of God.
Jesse, do you have kids?
If so, you would be a dad, correct? But you're also a son. But how can someone be both a "father" and a "son" at the same time. Surely that's impossible! This exposes one of your logical assumptions you used.
But the same argument could also be made for God the Father. He's already called the Father, so how can He also be God, if He's already the Father? Believing flawed human logic instead of scripture.
The second false assumption is thinking that Jesus can't be God, because [according to you] you don't think He would pray to Himself. But the Bible says Jesus created everything and was always there from the beginning ( John 1) before He relegated Himself to being a temporary man. You then take Jesus's actions as a temporary man and falsely assuming He was never anything but a man and that all of His actions as a temporary man is permanently how He is. That's quite an assumption. Also, the Son was praying to the Father, was He not? And the verse saying the Father and Son are one- do you believe that?
This post is more for others, because the truth needs to be shared instead of the anti-Bible propaganda people post here.
"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." Isaiah 44:6 KJV
Do you believe Jesus is Lord? Do you believe He's the King of Israel, and King of the Jews? Do you believe He's the Alpha and Omega, first and last like the Bible says?
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." Revelation 22:13 KJV
"besides me there is no God" He says. But I'm sure people will keep believing in whatever appeases them, rather than what the Bible actually says. God bless.
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." 1 Corinthians 8:6 KJV
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV
"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." Isaiah 44:6 KJV
You said you think Jesus is "a GOD". This is shocking to read.
Have you read the verses above that say there is one God? Do you believe those verses? If so, why do believe there is more than one God?
Then you continue with flawed human logic: this can't be true because of [this], etc.
The rest of what you wrote does not seem consistent with scripture. What religion do you identify with?
What does it mean to believe? What is the evidence that we believe? As Paul said, it is like running a race, when we start this race, we believe we are going to finish, and with God's Spirit we have all the determination and motivation we are not only going to finish this race we are going to win this race.
We are saved! We are being saved! We shall be saved! When we start, are all our sins forgiven, our past, present, and our future sins the moment we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and are baptized? Is our salvation guaranteed and we cannot lose it or fall out of grace regardless?
We are saved. Eph. 2:5 When we accept the gospel and are baptized our sins are blotted out, Isaiah 44:22Acts 3:19 and we become a child/son/daughter of God, John 1:12 we are justified, made righteous by the blood of Christ and the Holy Spirit dwells in us, and now we begin a relationship through God's Spirit, and God and Jesus abide in us, 2 John 1:9. This is the start of the race, the beginning of our salvation.
We are being saved. Philippians 1:6 Hearing the Word one believes and is baptized into Christ they are made clean (justification) the work of grace, and the Lord will continue working in us until He returns if we abide in Him John 15:3-5. How does God complete his good work in us? Testing James 1:2-4, chastising Heb. 12:6-7 Our relationship. If we abide in Him, Jesus, and God abides in us. The branches bear the fruit of the vine, the vine produces the fruit not us/branch, sanctification. We are running the race Philippians 2:12
We shall be saved. Redemption and glorification. Our full salvation comes at the end, when Jesus returns. Luke 21:28 "being now justified" We started the race. We are being saved, "being reconciled" we are running the race, 2 Cor. 5:18. We shall be saved at the end of the race. Romans 13:11.
Who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth- John 3:31. Your earthly and devilish verbiage and chatter is good for nothing, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing, understand? By the way, be sure that your satanic spiritual guide( 2Corinthians 11:12-15) will be cast down into the bottomless pit from now on, day by day, understand?- Revelation 20:3.
Furthermore, the LAST and main partner of your spiritual guide according Genesis 3:1-, he will be elected soon, that is the LAST Beast to be elected- Revelation 13:1- called Vicarivs Filii Dei, a filii of Devil; he will be cast into the lake of fire - Revelation 19:19-20 - burning with brimstone by the Power of the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD-self-executable- , understand? including their followers, those which he deceived(have been deceived) and received (have received) the mark of the Beast, and they worshipp the Beast making a signal of CROSS- CROSS is CURSE - with right HAND completing the satanic sign on FOREHEAD-AS WAS PROPHESIED- Revelation 13:16- combined with Isaiah 44:20.
These will be cast alive into the hell's fire from now on- 2 Peter 3:7 combined withn Revelation 19:19-20, even in this LORD's Day, in this seventh and last Day, that is the seventh and last millennium, the current millennium, THE MILLENNIUM OF CHRIST, according the righteous Judgment of GOD, the Judgment Seat of Christ.
Get ready, for Revelation 21:8 will LITERALLY be fulfilled: "the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Good morning all, morning meditations regarding king Cyrus a gentile king.
Isaiah 44:28 "That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the Temple, Thy foundation shall be laid."
Isaiah 45:1-2 "Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight; I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:"
Ezra 5:13 "But in the first year of Cyrus king of Babylon the same king Cyrus made a decree to build this house of God."
God knew Cyrus would be king and His shepherd for a great purpose. It was all part of the ushering in of the time for the Messiah, Christ to come where regenerated gentiles could be kings in Christ in the house of God. The decree was the beginning of this time that would be detailed to Daniel and supported again in Revelation by Christ.
Jesus proclaimed Himself to be the "Alpha and Omega" in
Revelation 1:8;
Revelation 21:6; and
Revelation 22:13.
Alpha and omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet.
It's common to use the first and the last letters of the Hebrew alphabet to denote the whole of anything from beginning to end. Jesus as the beginning and end of all things is a reference to no one but God!
This statement of eternality could apply only to God.
It is equivalent to saying He always existed and always will.
The phrase also identifies Him as the God of the Old Testament. Isaiah ascribes this aspect of Jesus' nature as part of the triune God in several places. "I, the Lord, am the first, and with the last I am He" Isaiah 41:4.
"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God"
Isaiah 44:6.
I am he; I am the first, I also am the last" Isaiah 48:12.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY. Revelation 1:8
Isaiah 41:7 So the CARPENTER (Christ), encouraged the goldsmith (YOU; the body of Christ, Christ does HIS WORKS by YOU, his body), and he (Christ) that smootheth with the hammer HIM (YOU; the POT, his body, he is the potter) that smote the anvil (YOU are the arm of Christ: as Christ is the arm of his Father), saying, It (YOU: sinful flesh) is ready for the sodering: and He (Christ) fastened IT (sinful flesh) with NAILS (to HIS CROSS), that IT (sinful flesh) should not be (re) moved.
Mark 6:1 Is not this the CARPENTER .....that made all things NEW: by his death and resurrection ....
You DIED with the CARPENTER on the CROSS, YOU and Christ were made ONE by HIS (and your) RESURRECTION.
Isaiah 44:13 The CARPENTER (Christ) stretcheth out his rule (YOU), he (Christ) maketh it (YOU) with a line, he (Christ) fitteth it (YOU) with planes, and he (Christ) maketh it (YOU) with the compass, and maketh it (YOU) after the figure of a MAN (CHRIST HIMSELF), according to the beauty of a MAN (CHRIST HIMSELF), that it (YOU; the new creation, the image of God) may remain in the HOUSE .... Hebrews 3:6 --- whose HOUSE YE ARE --- Psalms 23:6 ... and I (Christ) will dwell in the HOUSE (YOU) of the Lord forever .... Colossians 1:27 ... this mystery ... Christ IN YOU ...
Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD that worketh IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
1 Corinthians 15:54 ...this mortal SHALL PUT ON immorality ....
1 Timothy 6:16 .... Christ ONLY hath immortality .... dwelling in the light ....
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be IN YOU, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL to GOD.
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are GIVEN TO US exceedingly great and precious PROMISES: that by these (promises) ye may be PARTAKERS of the DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption (by the death of YOUR flesh on the cross) that is in the world through lust.
Part 2..that they are not gods at all. Acts 19:26 says also that the gods of pagans are not gods at all.
So, Ruby, just because people and idols are called gods in the Bible does not indicate that they truly are.
Isaiah 44:6, 8 and 43:10 say that YHWH alone is God, there is no other, and, that He knows no other god but Himself, neither was there any god formed before Him, nor will there be any god formed after Him. So, gods cannot be created. This is plain by these verses.
Ruby are you willing to attest to the truth of these words or not? If you say, yes there are other gods beside YHWH then you are speaking untruth against the Most High God.
Gettig back to John 10 where the Pharisees and priests accused Jesus of blasphemy because He claimed to be God by sayig He was the Son of God.
Jesus cites Psalm 82:7 as an attack against these religious leaders who, like the judges in Psalm 82:7, thought that they were gods before the people because of their position of authority. He was rebuking them His response is a retort. he was very angry at them. He was attesting to the fact that the judges spoken of in Psalm 82:7 were evil and corrupt, though the were termed as 'gods' (leaders. judges standing in for God) Can one who is evil be a god?
Jesus was pointing out the ludicrousness of the religious leaders who believed that since Psalm 82:7 calls the judges 'gods' then they must truly be gods, because the Scripture cannot be broken. They refused to submit to the whole counsel of Scriptures to admit that there truly is only one God, no others.
They did not want to admit that Jesus was the Son of God (which is an expression of Deity) but instead accused Him of blasphemy for making Himself to be God. They were blinded, as Jesus said many times, from seeing and believing the truth of Whom Jesus truly was.
I and Chris have addressed this Scripture on several occasions before using Scripture and Scriptural context to explain what Jesus was meaning when ....
They could be basing their claim on any one of the following pieces of scripture:
John 1:1, John 1:14, John 8:24, John 8:58, John 10:30-33, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8, Colossians 2:9, Philippians 2:5-8, Psalm 45:6.
The Bible tells us that we are to worship God alone, and yet Jesus received worship and never rebuked anyone who worshipped Him. We see evidence of this in Matthew 2:2, Matthew 2:11, Matthew 14:33, Matthew 28:9, John 9:35-38, Hebrews 1:6.
Isaiah 44:6 reads, "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides me."
In Rev 1:17, it says "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as a dead man." In Daniel 10:8-9, Daniel did the same thing. When he saw this vision of Christ, he fell down as he was dead. In Ezekiel 1:28, Ezekiel sees the vision and he falls down as a dead man. It goes on to say "Fear not; I am the first and the last: (the designation of God, found in Isaiah 41:4, and Isaiah 48:12).
In Revelation 1:18, it says I am He that lives, and this is another designation of God found in Psalm 84:2, and Joshua 3:10.
I am He that lives. God presents Himself to the Jews as the living God. He says I am He that lives, and was dead; literally, and became dead, and behold, I am living forevermore, His resurrection, His eternalness.
And then it reads, Amen; and I have the keys of hell and of death. Keys are a symbol of authority. Those who were in charge of the temple had the keys to the temple. We are told later on that the Lord (Jesus) will be in control of hell and death.
In Matthew 16:15, Jesus asks His disciples who do you say I am? Peter had the perfect answer. Peter said "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Peter was Jewish. The phrase "Son of the living God" from a Hebrew standpoint is a phrase used for God. To a Jew, claiming to be the Son of God was considered blasphemy, but that was Peter's response to who Jesus was
Hello Alex, I decided to begin a new thread for my response to you. I wish to be systematic in my response to your post to me, so this may be submitted in several parts.
Part 1 THERE IS BUT ONE GOD-NOW AND EVER
First of all, I would like to establish that there is only one God according to Scripture.
Deut. 4:35 says, "Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God, there is none else beside him."
Isaiah 43:10 says ,"Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen; that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He; before Me there is no God formed; neither shall there be after Me."
Isaiah 44:6,8 says, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, the LORD of Hosts; I am the first and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.....Is there a God beside Me? Yeaw, there is no God, I know not any."
1Corinthians 8:4-6 says,, "...we know that an idol is nothing in this world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there may be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth (as there be gods many and lords many), But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by Him."
So, the testimony of Scriptures clearly and explicitly states the truth that there is but One God and that no other gods exist beside Him nor will any more gods exist after Him. This is because from eternity to eternity, He is the only God who is self-existent, without beginning or end, and He alone created all things outside of Himself. Any created being is not God nor will ever become a god. Angels will always be angels, humans will always be humans, and God will always be God.
Part 2 THERE IS NO ONE LIKE GOD-HE IS UNIQUE AND ONE OF A KIND
Scripture also says that there is no other being who is like Him in essence, perfection, limitlessness, and infinity.
The Book of Proverbs hits hard, it shows us where we fall short. It's always good to return there for guidance & wisdom as we walk closer to the upward calling of CHRIST. Philippians 3:14, Proverbs 1:1,
It may be best to encourage yourself by reading Psalms 139, Romans 8, John 17, Jude 1:24-25, while you reading Proverbs.
There is a phrase I heard while travelling: "Same, but Different"
This might explain the seemingly paradoxical relationship of the trinity or Godhead. Exactly how much the same are they and exactly how different are they? We don't know, we're only humans with limited capacity to comprehend this and no Earthly experience with this relationship. We only know what God's word says...
1 John 5:7
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
1 Kings 8:60 That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.
John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Isaiah 9:6
John 10:38
"...the Father is in me, and I in him."
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
1 John 5:20
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
Acts 17:29
"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or sto
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
1 Timothy 1:1 "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;"
With out father , with out mathar, with out descent, having neither beginning of days or end of life but made like unto the son of God abide a priest continually Amen
And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God and the song of the lamb saying Great and marvelous are thy warks Lord God Almighty just and true and thy ways thou king of saint Amen
Let's see what else God's Word has to say in regards to your snarky comment against Jesus.
A few verses before in 2 Peter 1:11 it says "Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Do you believe Jesus is your Lord and Savior?
Do you know what "Lord" means?
The same old straw man fallacy shows up again that God the Son isn't God the Father, but no one is claiming that. This attack on Jesus is repeated so much it seems to fall into the disingenuous and lie territory.
God is powerful enough to do what you don't comprehend as a man. Whether you comprehend that or not doesn't change reality or the truth. The Bible says that in John 1 the 'word was God' and was there at the beginning, so do you believe it?
More of God's truth about God:
Luke 4:34 - "Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God."
Luke 4:12 after satan put Jesus to the test Jesus says "Do not put the Lord your God to the test."
Isaiah 7:14 - Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us"
Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD..."
Isaiah 42:8 "I am the LORD: that is my name..."
Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
Godhead:
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
John 1:18
God is we and us plural:
Genesis 1:26
If the Bible flat out said Jesus is God like it does would you believe it?
Where are the verses that say Jesus isn't God the Son? (none)
Where are the verses saying Jesus IS God the Son (above, numerous)
And where are the verses where Jesus verbally denied being God? (none)
I appreciate your respectul remarks and am ok with continuing to dialog as long as that remains.
I can offer a challenge to few of your points in your last comment.
1. John 1:1 says, "In the beginning", God does not have a beginning.
It sounds like you are using this as evidence to support your view. I don't view it that way at all. First, this says "in the beginning" not "in God's beginning" or "in the Word's beginning". So, this phrase doesn't suggest any limitation on God whatsoever, but is just marking for us in our own human terms that Jesus was always there.
Do you remember Jesus saying this: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." That doesn't mean He's limited, but the opposite, it means He spans everything! Revelation 22:13 - notice the words in red that Jesus said that.
It also says this in Revelation 1:8, notice it says "says the Lord". Lord is Greek word kurios which is supreme authority or God. Some translations say "says the Lord God" and is the same meaning. This is Jesus speaking about Himself, it too is in red.
Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." - notice this is the same claim Jesus made in Revelation. If there's only one and only one who makes that claim then it seems logical that the claim in both the New and Old Testament are from the same being.
Revelation 11:17 - This uses the same word Lord (kurios) of which Jesus is Lord ( Romans 10:9) and uses the word theos (God) with it, so it calls Jesus "Lord God." Do you agree? How do you feel about this verse?
Isaiah 43:11 - "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." So, it says Jesus is Lord and our savior in the New Testament and there's no other Lord. Here in the OT it also says the Lord is the savior and no one else. That is all in alignment with John 10:30. Yes?
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Who is the Word?
John 1:14-15 says the Word is Jesus. Does anyone deny that the Word is Jesus?
If someone believes John 1:14, then do they believe John 1:1
"...the Word was God."
"...[Jesus] was God."
JESUS.
WAS.
GOD.
John 1:1
This is God's Word.
Some here are saying "Jesus was NOT God" despite John 1:1 clearly saying Jesus WAS God. I'd like to know exactly how someone can believe in all other verses of the Bible except this one? If something WAS something, that seems to offer little room for interpretation. It means it's the same, does it not? So, if something WAS something, how does someone twist this into believing it says something WAS NOT something?
It then must be asked: since it takes so much effort to take a sentence something WAS something to turn it into: something WAS NOT something, what is the true underlying motive here? Does God's Word carry the most weight and influence or does something else?
This is eerily similar to Gen 3:4 where satan denied what God said and claimed that they shall NOT surely die. Satan loves opposites and this seems to have his signature, does it not?
I welcome any perspective I'm missing, but do not consider anything other Bible verses as valid evidence. God's Word is all that matters and because there's already numerous verses supporting that Jesus is God like John 1:1 then that is what is true. Lastly, why not just pray and ask God directly to know the truth? Genuinely ask!
This is an interesting logical argument. I find that in 1 Peter 3:22. Let's assume for argument's sake that your conclusion is correct and you get 1 point for this.
But for every verse you cite, there are even more that say that Jesus IS God, like John 1:1 saying the "Word was God" and verse 14 that Jesus is the Word.
This could continue to play out and you can cite any number of verses to support your position, but again we don't run out of very compelling verses saying that Jesus is God.
Let's say that it's a dead even race. 30 verses suggesting Jesus isn't vs 30 verses suggesting He is.
Then what? Which do you choose to believe?
I don't know if you've gone through this exercise or not, but I now have a spoiler: someone will run out of verses supporting that Jesus "isn't" God long before the verses supporting He IS God. Not only that, but each of the verses commonly cited to claim that Jesus "isn't" God require some extra creative interpretation and human logic whereas the verses supporting the other side can be read and interpreted more literally. Not only that, but there's logical explanations for why Jesus called His Father God. The main reason is that He temporarily became a human being and limited His power. Phil 2:6-7. So, yes, as a man, He prayed to His Father and called Him God. So, all verses must be considered as a whole, not cherry picked in order to have understanding about the Godhead and I admit it is hard to comprehend as we don't have anything like it in on earth. But perhaps like an orange with seeds, pulp, skin. Someone calls pulp an orange, and it is.
Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 43:10 - Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isaiah 43:11 - I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour.
Isaiah 44:6 - Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.
NEW TESTAMENT - OLD TESTAMENT PROPHECY FULFILLED
JESUS SHED BLOOD, DIED ON THE CROSS, RISEN FROM THE DEAD, ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 - The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.
John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Colossians 1:15 - 22 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist
Jeremiah 20:1, Yeah, sad when someone of trusted positions act corrupt, cruel & evil, abusing their authority, especially in the house of The LORD our GOD! Proverbs 15:3, that's why GOD sent Jeremiah to prophecy to them. Jeremiah 1:4-19, Jeremiah 4:1-6, notice Jeremiah 20:1-6, Jeremiah 7,
But then: Jeremiah 3:12, Jeremiah 12:15, Isaiah 51:11, Isaiah 35:10, Isaiah 44:22, Isaiah 55:7, John 3:15-21,
Even today we see hypocrisy but Jesus already knew, lived it & gave us direction : Matthew 23, Matthew 25:31-46,
Hello Vera. Cyrus is a Persian King, whom the LORD God had chosen & appointed to release His people from captivity. You might remember, that Judah went into Babylonian captivity, while Israel went into Assyrian captivity. The prophet Isaiah who prophesied during the reign of Judah's Kings Hezekiah & Manasseh, some 150 years earlier, clearly proclaimed that a future Persian king called Cyrus would be instrumental in releasing God's people. Under the Babylonian kings, Judah found no respite, but God had planned that Cyrus would overthrow Babylon & eventually release the people.
Isaiah 44:28 refers to Cyrus as God's shepherd. Though 'shepherd' is used to denote one who leads & guides a flock, here for Cyrus, God uses this name as Cyrus would be the one to not only release the people but would ensure that they made it home. And as God's chosen, Cyrus would be specially raised to not only destroy the city & the kingdom of Babylon, but also in delivering the Jewish captives & rebuilding Jerusalem & the Temple.
Is then Cyrus "a form of Christ?" As far as a saviour (one who saves) goes, yes, because he was God's instrument to save His people from captivity. But could Cyrus ever accomplish what Jesus Christ has done for us? Clearly, No. Because Jesus not only rescued us out of the clutches of our enemy Satan, but secured God's forgiveness for us & giving us a new Spirit & a new life; Cyrus could never do all that for he was just a man, a heathen sinner at that. But Cyrus was merely a shadow & a revelation of the Power of God in the lives of the God-fearing & godless. God can choose whomever He wishes to accomplish His Plans, but only Jesus could fulfil that great Plan for the saving of mankind's wretched soul.
I dont see a scripture in Acts 17 with those words but there are several scriptures about the unborn.
Isaiah 44:2
VerseConcepts
Thus says the Lord who made you
And formed you from the womb, who will help you,
'Do not fear, O Jacob My servant;
And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen.
Jeremiah 20:17
VerseConcepts
Because he did not kill me before birth,
So that my mother would have been my grave,
And her womb ever pregnant.
Psalm 139:13
VerseConcepts
For You formed my inward parts;
You wove me in my mother's womb.
Ecclesiastes 11:5
VerseConcepts
Just as you do not know the path of the wind and how bones are formed in the womb of the pregnant woman, so you do not know the activity of God who makes all things.
Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?
As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?
God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV
You: Word was "NOT" God?
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV
Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?
Isaiah 7:14 -
Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Matthew 1:23-25
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Isaiah 7:14
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 43:11
You seem to suggest you believe Jesus is the Son of God, but can't be God because he's already the Son of God.
Jesse, do you have kids?
If so, you would be a dad, correct? But you're also a son. But how can someone be both a "father" and a "son" at the same time. Surely that's impossible! This exposes one of your logical assumptions you used.
But the same argument could also be made for God the Father. He's already called the Father, so how can He also be God, if He's already the Father? Believing flawed human logic instead of scripture.
The second false assumption is thinking that Jesus can't be God, because [according to you] you don't think He would pray to Himself. But the Bible says Jesus created everything and was always there from the beginning ( John 1) before He relegated Himself to being a temporary man. You then take Jesus's actions as a temporary man and falsely assuming He was never anything but a man and that all of His actions as a temporary man is permanently how He is. That's quite an assumption. Also, the Son was praying to the Father, was He not? And the verse saying the Father and Son are one- do you believe that?
This post is more for others, because the truth needs to be shared instead of the anti-Bible propaganda people post here.
"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." Isaiah 44:6 KJV
Do you believe Jesus is Lord? Do you believe He's the King of Israel, and King of the Jews? Do you believe He's the Alpha and Omega, first and last like the Bible says?
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." Revelation 22:13 KJV
"besides me there is no God" He says. But I'm sure people will keep believing in whatever appeases them, rather than what the Bible actually says. God bless.
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV
"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." Isaiah 44:6 KJV
You said you think Jesus is "a GOD". This is shocking to read.
Have you read the verses above that say there is one God? Do you believe those verses? If so, why do believe there is more than one God?
Then you continue with flawed human logic: this can't be true because of [this], etc.
The rest of what you wrote does not seem consistent with scripture. What religion do you identify with?
Part two
What does it mean to believe? What is the evidence that we believe? As Paul said, it is like running a race, when we start this race, we believe we are going to finish, and with God's Spirit we have all the determination and motivation we are not only going to finish this race we are going to win this race.
We are saved! We are being saved! We shall be saved! When we start, are all our sins forgiven, our past, present, and our future sins the moment we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and are baptized? Is our salvation guaranteed and we cannot lose it or fall out of grace regardless?
We are saved. Eph. 2:5 When we accept the gospel and are baptized our sins are blotted out, Isaiah 44:22 Acts 3:19 and we become a child/son/daughter of God, John 1:12 we are justified, made righteous by the blood of Christ and the Holy Spirit dwells in us, and now we begin a relationship through God's Spirit, and God and Jesus abide in us, 2 John 1:9. This is the start of the race, the beginning of our salvation.
We are being saved. Philippians 1:6 Hearing the Word one believes and is baptized into Christ they are made clean (justification) the work of grace, and the Lord will continue working in us until He returns if we abide in Him John 15:3-5. How does God complete his good work in us? Testing James 1:2-4, chastising Heb. 12:6-7 Our relationship. If we abide in Him, Jesus, and God abides in us. The branches bear the fruit of the vine, the vine produces the fruit not us/branch, sanctification. We are running the race Philippians 2:12
We shall be saved. Redemption and glorification. Our full salvation comes at the end, when Jesus returns. Luke 21:28 "being now justified" We started the race. We are being saved, "being reconciled" we are running the race, 2 Cor. 5:18. We shall be saved at the end of the race. Romans 13:11.
See part three.
I am not you adversary, just a living stone, as are you, in the HOUSE God BUILT.
You comments in first two paragraphs were DEAD ON, GOD'S PURPOSE, being fulfilled.
Yet, in your third paragraph, you attribute the demise of the Amorites to THEIR FREE WILL, instead of GOD'S PURPOSE.
Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things FOR HIMSELF, yea, EVEN the WICKED for the day of evil.
They had no FREE WILL to do anything other than the APPOINTED WILL of GOD.
Romans 9:17 For the scriptures SAITH UNTO PHARAOH, for this PURPOSE have I raised you up ......
Isaiah 44:8 That saith of Cyrus, you are my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure .....
Amazing to think about all these things.
In LOVE, for the truth God has PURPOSED for us.
God Bless YOU!
Who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth- John 3:31. Your earthly and devilish verbiage and chatter is good for nothing, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing, understand? By the way, be sure that your satanic spiritual guide( 2Corinthians 11:12-15) will be cast down into the bottomless pit from now on, day by day, understand?- Revelation 20:3.
Furthermore, the LAST and main partner of your spiritual guide according Genesis 3:1-, he will be elected soon, that is the LAST Beast to be elected- Revelation 13:1- called Vicarivs Filii Dei, a filii of Devil; he will be cast into the lake of fire - Revelation 19:19-20 - burning with brimstone by the Power of the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD-self-executable- , understand? including their followers, those which he deceived(have been deceived) and received (have received) the mark of the Beast, and they worshipp the Beast making a signal of CROSS- CROSS is CURSE - with right HAND completing the satanic sign on FOREHEAD-AS WAS PROPHESIED- Revelation 13:16- combined with Isaiah 44:20.
These will be cast alive into the hell's fire from now on- 2 Peter 3:7 combined withn Revelation 19:19-20, even in this LORD's Day, in this seventh and last Day, that is the seventh and last millennium, the current millennium, THE MILLENNIUM OF CHRIST, according the righteous Judgment of GOD, the Judgment Seat of Christ.
Get ready, for Revelation 21:8 will LITERALLY be fulfilled: "the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Get ready
Isaiah 44:28 "That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the Temple, Thy foundation shall be laid."
Isaiah 45:1-2 "Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight; I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:"
Ezra 5:13 "But in the first year of Cyrus king of Babylon the same king Cyrus made a decree to build this house of God."
God knew Cyrus would be king and His shepherd for a great purpose. It was all part of the ushering in of the time for the Messiah, Christ to come where regenerated gentiles could be kings in Christ in the house of God. The decree was the beginning of this time that would be detailed to Daniel and supported again in Revelation by Christ.
Jesus proclaimed Himself to be the "Alpha and Omega" in
Revelation 1:8;
Revelation 21:6; and
Revelation 22:13.
Alpha and omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet.
It's common to use the first and the last letters of the Hebrew alphabet to denote the whole of anything from beginning to end. Jesus as the beginning and end of all things is a reference to no one but God!
This statement of eternality could apply only to God.
It is equivalent to saying He always existed and always will.
The phrase also identifies Him as the God of the Old Testament. Isaiah ascribes this aspect of Jesus' nature as part of the triune God in several places. "I, the Lord, am the first, and with the last I am He" Isaiah 41:4.
"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God"
Isaiah 44:6.
I am he; I am the first, I also am the last" Isaiah 48:12.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY. Revelation 1:8
I hope this helps.
God bless.
Your comment about the CARPENTER is scriptural.
Isaiah 41:7 So the CARPENTER (Christ), encouraged the goldsmith (YOU; the body of Christ, Christ does HIS WORKS by YOU, his body), and he (Christ) that smootheth with the hammer HIM (YOU; the POT, his body, he is the potter) that smote the anvil (YOU are the arm of Christ: as Christ is the arm of his Father), saying, It (YOU: sinful flesh) is ready for the sodering: and He (Christ) fastened IT (sinful flesh) with NAILS (to HIS CROSS), that IT (sinful flesh) should not be (re) moved.
Mark 6:1 Is not this the CARPENTER .....that made all things NEW: by his death and resurrection ....
You DIED with the CARPENTER on the CROSS, YOU and Christ were made ONE by HIS (and your) RESURRECTION.
Isaiah 44:13 The CARPENTER (Christ) stretcheth out his rule (YOU), he (Christ) maketh it (YOU) with a line, he (Christ) fitteth it (YOU) with planes, and he (Christ) maketh it (YOU) with the compass, and maketh it (YOU) after the figure of a MAN (CHRIST HIMSELF), according to the beauty of a MAN (CHRIST HIMSELF), that it (YOU; the new creation, the image of God) may remain in the HOUSE .... Hebrews 3:6 --- whose HOUSE YE ARE --- Psalms 23:6 ... and I (Christ) will dwell in the HOUSE (YOU) of the Lord forever .... Colossians 1:27 ... this mystery ... Christ IN YOU ...
Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD that worketh IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
1 Corinthians 15:54 ...this mortal SHALL PUT ON immorality ....
1 Timothy 6:16 .... Christ ONLY hath immortality .... dwelling in the light ....
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be IN YOU, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL to GOD.
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are GIVEN TO US exceedingly great and precious PROMISES: that by these (promises) ye may be PARTAKERS of the DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption (by the death of YOUR flesh on the cross) that is in the world through lust.
God BLESS YOU!
Part 2..that they are not gods at all. Acts 19:26 says also that the gods of pagans are not gods at all.
So, Ruby, just because people and idols are called gods in the Bible does not indicate that they truly are.
Isaiah 44:6, 8 and 43:10 say that YHWH alone is God, there is no other, and, that He knows no other god but Himself, neither was there any god formed before Him, nor will there be any god formed after Him. So, gods cannot be created. This is plain by these verses.
Ruby are you willing to attest to the truth of these words or not? If you say, yes there are other gods beside YHWH then you are speaking untruth against the Most High God.
Gettig back to John 10 where the Pharisees and priests accused Jesus of blasphemy because He claimed to be God by sayig He was the Son of God.
Jesus cites Psalm 82:7 as an attack against these religious leaders who, like the judges in Psalm 82:7, thought that they were gods before the people because of their position of authority. He was rebuking them His response is a retort. he was very angry at them. He was attesting to the fact that the judges spoken of in Psalm 82:7 were evil and corrupt, though the were termed as 'gods' (leaders. judges standing in for God) Can one who is evil be a god?
Jesus was pointing out the ludicrousness of the religious leaders who believed that since Psalm 82:7 calls the judges 'gods' then they must truly be gods, because the Scripture cannot be broken. They refused to submit to the whole counsel of Scriptures to admit that there truly is only one God, no others.
They did not want to admit that Jesus was the Son of God (which is an expression of Deity) but instead accused Him of blasphemy for making Himself to be God. They were blinded, as Jesus said many times, from seeing and believing the truth of Whom Jesus truly was.
I and Chris have addressed this Scripture on several occasions before using Scripture and Scriptural context to explain what Jesus was meaning when ....
They could be basing their claim on any one of the following pieces of scripture:
John 1:1, John 1:14, John 8:24, John 8:58, John 10:30-33, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8, Colossians 2:9, Philippians 2:5-8, Psalm 45:6.
The Bible tells us that we are to worship God alone, and yet Jesus received worship and never rebuked anyone who worshipped Him. We see evidence of this in Matthew 2:2, Matthew 2:11, Matthew 14:33, Matthew 28:9, John 9:35-38, Hebrews 1:6.
Isaiah 44:6 reads, "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides me."
In Rev 1:17, it says "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as a dead man." In Daniel 10:8-9, Daniel did the same thing. When he saw this vision of Christ, he fell down as he was dead. In Ezekiel 1:28, Ezekiel sees the vision and he falls down as a dead man. It goes on to say "Fear not; I am the first and the last: (the designation of God, found in Isaiah 41:4, and Isaiah 48:12).
In Revelation 1:18, it says I am He that lives, and this is another designation of God found in Psalm 84:2, and Joshua 3:10.
I am He that lives. God presents Himself to the Jews as the living God. He says I am He that lives, and was dead; literally, and became dead, and behold, I am living forevermore, His resurrection, His eternalness.
And then it reads, Amen; and I have the keys of hell and of death. Keys are a symbol of authority. Those who were in charge of the temple had the keys to the temple. We are told later on that the Lord (Jesus) will be in control of hell and death.
In Matthew 16:15, Jesus asks His disciples who do you say I am? Peter had the perfect answer. Peter said "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Peter was Jewish. The phrase "Son of the living God" from a Hebrew standpoint is a phrase used for God. To a Jew, claiming to be the Son of God was considered blasphemy, but that was Peter's response to who Jesus was
Part 1 THERE IS BUT ONE GOD-NOW AND EVER
First of all, I would like to establish that there is only one God according to Scripture.
Deut. 4:35 says, "Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God, there is none else beside him."
Isaiah 43:10 says ,"Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen; that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He; before Me there is no God formed; neither shall there be after Me."
Isaiah 44:6,8 says, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, the LORD of Hosts; I am the first and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.....Is there a God beside Me? Yeaw, there is no God, I know not any."
1Corinthians 8:4-6 says,, "...we know that an idol is nothing in this world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there may be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth (as there be gods many and lords many), But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by Him."
So, the testimony of Scriptures clearly and explicitly states the truth that there is but One God and that no other gods exist beside Him nor will any more gods exist after Him. This is because from eternity to eternity, He is the only God who is self-existent, without beginning or end, and He alone created all things outside of Himself. Any created being is not God nor will ever become a god. Angels will always be angels, humans will always be humans, and God will always be God.
Part 2 THERE IS NO ONE LIKE GOD-HE IS UNIQUE AND ONE OF A KIND
Scripture also says that there is no other being who is like Him in essence, perfection, limitlessness, and infinity.
see next post
It may be best to encourage yourself by reading Psalms 139, Romans 8, John 17, Jude 1:24-25, while you reading Proverbs.
Hopefully this is encouraging & helpful
This might explain the seemingly paradoxical relationship of the trinity or Godhead. Exactly how much the same are they and exactly how different are they? We don't know, we're only humans with limited capacity to comprehend this and no Earthly experience with this relationship. We only know what God's word says...
1 John 5:7
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
1 Kings 8:60 That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.
John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Isaiah 9:6
John 10:38
"...the Father is in me, and I in him."
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
1 John 5:20
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
Acts 17:29
"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or sto
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
1 Timothy 1:1 "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;"
Ezra 1,
King Cyrus, following Nebzzr. Then you can use search tools on website, for words. Isaiah 44:28, 2Chronicles 36:22,23, Daniel 1:21, Daniel 6:28,
Hopefully these are helpful in your study
A few verses before in 2 Peter 1:11 it says "Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Do you believe Jesus is your Lord and Savior?
Do you know what "Lord" means?
The same old straw man fallacy shows up again that God the Son isn't God the Father, but no one is claiming that. This attack on Jesus is repeated so much it seems to fall into the disingenuous and lie territory.
God is powerful enough to do what you don't comprehend as a man. Whether you comprehend that or not doesn't change reality or the truth. The Bible says that in John 1 the 'word was God' and was there at the beginning, so do you believe it?
More of God's truth about God:
Luke 4:34 - "Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God."
Luke 4:12 after satan put Jesus to the test Jesus says "Do not put the Lord your God to the test."
Isaiah 7:14 - Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us"
Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD..."
Isaiah 42:8 "I am the LORD: that is my name..."
Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
Godhead:
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
John 1:18
God is we and us plural:
Genesis 1:26
If the Bible flat out said Jesus is God like it does would you believe it?
Where are the verses that say Jesus isn't God the Son? (none)
Where are the verses saying Jesus IS God the Son (above, numerous)
And where are the verses where Jesus verbally denied being God? (none)
"I AM" John 8:56-59
John 10:30
John 8:19
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Matthew 1:23-25
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Isaiah 7:14
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 43:11
John 17:5
John 17:21
I appreciate your respectul remarks and am ok with continuing to dialog as long as that remains.
I can offer a challenge to few of your points in your last comment.
1. John 1:1 says, "In the beginning", God does not have a beginning.
It sounds like you are using this as evidence to support your view. I don't view it that way at all. First, this says "in the beginning" not "in God's beginning" or "in the Word's beginning". So, this phrase doesn't suggest any limitation on God whatsoever, but is just marking for us in our own human terms that Jesus was always there.
Do you remember Jesus saying this: "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." That doesn't mean He's limited, but the opposite, it means He spans everything! Revelation 22:13 - notice the words in red that Jesus said that.
It also says this in Revelation 1:8, notice it says "says the Lord". Lord is Greek word kurios which is supreme authority or God. Some translations say "says the Lord God" and is the same meaning. This is Jesus speaking about Himself, it too is in red.
Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." - notice this is the same claim Jesus made in Revelation. If there's only one and only one who makes that claim then it seems logical that the claim in both the New and Old Testament are from the same being.
Revelation 11:17 - This uses the same word Lord (kurios) of which Jesus is Lord ( Romans 10:9) and uses the word theos (God) with it, so it calls Jesus "Lord God." Do you agree? How do you feel about this verse?
Isaiah 43:11 - "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." So, it says Jesus is Lord and our savior in the New Testament and there's no other Lord. Here in the OT it also says the Lord is the savior and no one else. That is all in alignment with John 10:30. Yes?
John 5:23 - we must honor Jesus.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Who is the Word?
John 1:14-15 says the Word is Jesus. Does anyone deny that the Word is Jesus?
If someone believes John 1:14, then do they believe John 1:1
"...the Word was God."
"...[Jesus] was God."
JESUS.
WAS.
GOD.
John 1:1
This is God's Word.
Some here are saying "Jesus was NOT God" despite John 1:1 clearly saying Jesus WAS God. I'd like to know exactly how someone can believe in all other verses of the Bible except this one? If something WAS something, that seems to offer little room for interpretation. It means it's the same, does it not? So, if something WAS something, how does someone twist this into believing it says something WAS NOT something?
It then must be asked: since it takes so much effort to take a sentence something WAS something to turn it into: something WAS NOT something, what is the true underlying motive here? Does God's Word carry the most weight and influence or does something else?
This is eerily similar to Gen 3:4 where satan denied what God said and claimed that they shall NOT surely die. Satan loves opposites and this seems to have his signature, does it not?
I welcome any perspective I'm missing, but do not consider anything other Bible verses as valid evidence. God's Word is all that matters and because there's already numerous verses supporting that Jesus is God like John 1:1 then that is what is true. Lastly, why not just pray and ask God directly to know the truth? Genuinely ask!
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7
(plural "us")
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Matthew 1:23-25
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Isaiah 7:14
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 43:11
This is an interesting logical argument. I find that in 1 Peter 3:22. Let's assume for argument's sake that your conclusion is correct and you get 1 point for this.
But for every verse you cite, there are even more that say that Jesus IS God, like John 1:1 saying the "Word was God" and verse 14 that Jesus is the Word.
This could continue to play out and you can cite any number of verses to support your position, but again we don't run out of very compelling verses saying that Jesus is God.
Let's say that it's a dead even race. 30 verses suggesting Jesus isn't vs 30 verses suggesting He is.
Then what? Which do you choose to believe?
I don't know if you've gone through this exercise or not, but I now have a spoiler: someone will run out of verses supporting that Jesus "isn't" God long before the verses supporting He IS God. Not only that, but each of the verses commonly cited to claim that Jesus "isn't" God require some extra creative interpretation and human logic whereas the verses supporting the other side can be read and interpreted more literally. Not only that, but there's logical explanations for why Jesus called His Father God. The main reason is that He temporarily became a human being and limited His power. Phil 2:6-7. So, yes, as a man, He prayed to His Father and called Him God. So, all verses must be considered as a whole, not cherry picked in order to have understanding about the Godhead and I admit it is hard to comprehend as we don't have anything like it in on earth. But perhaps like an orange with seeds, pulp, skin. Someone calls pulp an orange, and it is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
, Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us")
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Matthew 1:23-25
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Isaiah 7:14
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 43:11
OLD TESTAMENT PROPHECY OF PROPET ISAIAH
SHEDDING OF BLOOD FOR REMISSION OF SINS
Isaiah 9:6 - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 43:10 - Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isaiah 43:11 - I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour.
Isaiah 44:6 - Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.
NEW TESTAMENT - OLD TESTAMENT PROPHECY FULFILLED
JESUS SHED BLOOD, DIED ON THE CROSS, RISEN FROM THE DEAD, ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 - The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 8:58 - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.
John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Colossians 1:15 - 22 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist
But then: Jeremiah 3:12, Jeremiah 12:15, Isaiah 51:11, Isaiah 35:10, Isaiah 44:22, Isaiah 55:7, John 3:15-21,
Even today we see hypocrisy but Jesus already knew, lived it & gave us direction : Matthew 23, Matthew 25:31-46,
Hopefully these are helpful
Isaiah 44:28 refers to Cyrus as God's shepherd. Though 'shepherd' is used to denote one who leads & guides a flock, here for Cyrus, God uses this name as Cyrus would be the one to not only release the people but would ensure that they made it home. And as God's chosen, Cyrus would be specially raised to not only destroy the city & the kingdom of Babylon, but also in delivering the Jewish captives & rebuilding Jerusalem & the Temple.
Is then Cyrus "a form of Christ?" As far as a saviour (one who saves) goes, yes, because he was God's instrument to save His people from captivity. But could Cyrus ever accomplish what Jesus Christ has done for us? Clearly, No. Because Jesus not only rescued us out of the clutches of our enemy Satan, but secured God's forgiveness for us & giving us a new Spirit & a new life; Cyrus could never do all that for he was just a man, a heathen sinner at that. But Cyrus was merely a shadow & a revelation of the Power of God in the lives of the God-fearing & godless. God can choose whomever He wishes to accomplish His Plans, but only Jesus could fulfil that great Plan for the saving of mankind's wretched soul.
Isaiah 44:2
VerseConcepts
Thus says the Lord who made you
And formed you from the womb, who will help you,
'Do not fear, O Jacob My servant;
And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen.
Jeremiah 20:17
VerseConcepts
Because he did not kill me before birth,
So that my mother would have been my grave,
And her womb ever pregnant.
Psalm 139:13
VerseConcepts
For You formed my inward parts;
You wove me in my mother's womb.
Ecclesiastes 11:5
VerseConcepts
Just as you do not know the path of the wind and how bones are formed in the womb of the pregnant woman, so you do not know the activity of God who makes all things.
Put the nonsense to rest .
44.24
Thus saith, the LORD , thy redeemer , and he that formed thee from the womb , I Am the Lord that made all things ; ....
No one not even Jesus ever dare makes this claim .
1 John 5:7-8
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7
John 10:30
John 8:19
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Matthew 1:23-25
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Isaiah 7:14
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Here are some verses to get you started. God bless.
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
John 1:1
1 John 5:7-8
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7
John 10:30
John 8:19
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Isaiah 7:14
Matthew 1:23-25
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6