I am sorry, you may have misunderstood me, the discussion was first on God's eternal purpose, and then What came first Light or darkness? Those are deep subjects that make us think I thought I was giving my understanding on those two questions. I know I am not the best at explaining my understanding. You added Lucifer and something happening between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 my understanding of those two things in my mind did not fit in the discussion of your two questions.
When I said my understanding was different, I did not mean to discuss prophecy, I still do not see the word Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 and something happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 like a gap theory is associated with prophecy or the two questions, that is just me. If you could give more of your understanding of the devil some call Lucifer and what you think happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 and your two questions.
Re.12:10-17KJV 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven (heaven?Eph.1:3.Take a look), Now is come salvation, and strength,and the Kingdom of our GOD,and the power of His Christ:for the accuser of our brethren is cast down,which accused them before our GOD day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,and by the word of their TESTIMONY;and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice,ye heavens(heavenly places in Christ JESUS-i.e. the celestial environments of the Old and New Testaments),and ye that dwell in them-the believers-.Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel)and of the sea!(sea/waters=peoples,and NATIONS,and multitudes of all tongues-Gentile peoples-which were deceived by that old serpent that deceives the whole world)for the Devil is come down unto you,having great wrath,because he knows that he has but a short time.13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth(from the heaven- Isaiah 14:12-15),he persecuted the woman...
14And to the woman were given TWO WINGS of a great eagle(the Old Testament and New Testament-two witnesses of GOD- Revelation 11:3-4.Take a kook),that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place,where she is nourished(by the Old and New Testaments-the Word of GOD,the Scriptures)for a time,and times, and half a time,from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman(be careful,don't drink of that water),that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth(144K of Israel- Revelation 7:1-10 and 14:1-5.Take a look)helped the woman(the Lord's Church- John 10:15-16),and the earth opened her mouth,and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. -The testimony of Christ is the Spirit of prophecy-Re.19:10 combined with Ro.8:9-11.GET READY
I KNOW you believe we are saved by grace ALONE, everything is the WORKS of GOD.
May the spirit of truth add to your comments:
You said OUR PART is confess and believe.
IS IT NOT the ''works'' of CHRIST IN US that CAUSES us to believe.
Philippians 1:29 For it is given (GRACE) to us on the behalf of Christ --- TO BELIEVE ----
ALL is the WORKS of GOD.
The ""belief" by and of, the "faith" by and of, the "life" by and of ---JESUS CHRIST ---
We are just the BODY of CHRIST, the "heart" and "mind" in that body; you and I and everyone else, IS CHRIST
Christ; the firstborn, of many brethren, we are the FRUIT of the TESTOR.
Isaiah 14:29 and out of the ROOT of the serpent (man) shall come forth a cockatrice (a saviour of men) and his (the saviours) FRUIT shall be a FIERY FLYING SERPENT.
God BLESS YOU as the spirit of truth makes us all ONE in Christ.
Reading you comment above ref. Joel 2:31, and Rev.6:12-17, and Matt.24:29-31concerning "The sun turns dark and the moon to blood ((before)) the day of the LORD comes",
first of all I remember that "there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the Moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve Stars". Once "the sun tuns dark" the woman will be in darkness(terrible), by the way, at "midnight there was(there will be)a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him. Then all those virgins arose(will arise), and trimmed(and will trim) their lamps.
And the foolish said(will say) unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out"; Matt.25:6-8. The lamps is gone out at midnight? In full midnight darkness, in a so perilous hour?
In the above comparison described, I am trying to highlight the issue of the sun becoming dark as prophesied. I don't see or interpret as being a physical phenomenon.
Based in Revelation 9:1-3&10&6 & 11-12
1 I saw a STAR fall from heaven unto the earth( Isaiah 14:12-14 combined with 2 Thess.2:3-4): and to HIM was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And HE opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the SUN and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter
The prophet is Isaiah, Matthew 1:22-23 shows the fulfillment of one of the many prophecies, this one we see given in Isaiah 14:7. Immanuel or in Greek Emmanuel is a Hebrew personal name meaning God is with us or God is with the people. Immanuel/Emmanuel is representative of the fact that God would demonstrate his love for us by the giving of His only begotten Son, Jesus the Messiah for the deliverance and salvation of his people, John 3:16.
Hebrew names have meaning like Jesus or Joshua that comes from the same Hebrew name Yehoshua meaning God is deliverance. It is derived from yeho meaning God and shua meaning to deliver or save.
"When the sun and the moon are darkened my understanding, this is literal...In the mid-500 AD, there was when the sun and moon were darkened which caused famine and plagues that was caused by volcanic eruptions... , meteorites, or something else it will be a sign before Jesus's second coming... in Joseph's dream, he does see the sun, moon, and stars, my understanding of this is a representation of Israel and the woman who had the man child, Jesus, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron we see in Rev.12:1"
In my view you need to meditate more deeply the Word of GOD, unfortunately your description above is from a human perspective,a stumble,not from GOD's perspective.Rev.12:1-There appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the MOON under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Here JESUS is not referring unto them which received Him not, and killed Him, quite the contrary, He is referring to His true Church in the world, He is the Sun, the Greater Light, the Light that came to the world,and it is He who clothes the woman with His Light.And under her feet who gives her support is the Holy Spirit sent by JESUS here- John 15:26 and 16:7-15-take a look. And the twelve stars of her crown are the twelve APOSTLES of our Lord JESUS,the Sun of Justice-Mal.4:2.
On the other hand,"When the sun and the moon are darkened my understanding,this's literal"according your human imagination What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing or self-executable: And the Word is revealing that a STAR fall from heaven( Isaiah 14:12-15)unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit,as the smoke of a great furnace;and the SUN and air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Hi Jeff. Yes, in Revelation 12:10 we read, "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren IS CAST DOWN, which accused them before our God day and night." However, in trying to piece together Satan's former position in Heaven or on Earth now & all that transpired in-between, is not always easy as I would relegate teaching on this doctrine (of Satan) amongst the many that the Bible gives sparse information & therefore cannot be fully understood. Therefore, in reading about Satan & his angels (the ones that followed him after he was booted out of God's Presence), often brings conflicts in our understanding & agreement.
For example, we know that Satan was already with sin & banished from God's Presence right at the time of the creation of man & woman ( Genesis 3:14,15, where Satan had used an animal to tempt man to also become like him & his quest to be like God). And Ezekiel 28:12-15, of Satan who infected the King of Tyrus to also usurp the Throne of God (see also Isaiah 14:12-15, where Satan also used the Babylonian king). Yet, we read that Satan still had access to Heaven, whereas Revelation 12:7-9 tells us that only after the "war in Heaven", Satan & his angels lost the battle, & was cast down to the Earth for all time.
So, in my cautious understanding, Satan no longer has access into Heaven, though in some way he still manages to bring accusation before God against those who belong to Jesus. But Satan & his work were judged at the Cross ( John 12:31), and though his work continues to tempt & blind the hearts of men since then, he knows his time is short ( Revelation 12:12), that in a future day he will be confined in the abyss ( Revelation 20:2,3), & at the end of the Millennium period, be locked away forever in the Lake of Fire ( Revelation 20:10). This is how I try to piece it all together - though not without conjecture or error.
However I don't quite know where you are coming from.
You stated; "God commands us to love our enemies. To pray for them. It is not the job of the True Believer to pass judgement on any individual. If we want to find sin we need only look in the mirror."
Let me make this clearer.
I said that that false doctrine that has been presented from this group for better than 3 years is sinister.
Then I gave the parallel with their beliefs.( All of man king becoming Gods) with the scripture on Satan/Lucifer found in Isaiah 14:14.
And I eluded to them saying over this same period of time the Gospel we preach was of man.
I say again, yes there's something sinister about that.
Where's the passing of Judgment you mentioned?
Should I agree with them for the sake of peace?
Find the recent thread where I spoke to them un truthfully that would cause Jema to react in such a personal way.
How do we show love to our enemies? Shun the Gospel that the reject?
Brother what you are describing is them condemning themselves!
I just declared there beliefs and have you noticed they haven't denied it.
Is it talking about Satan; or, is it talking about Christ giving up his GLORY and coming as sinful flesh to redeem creation?
Is the Hebrew word in Isaiah 14:12 translated correctly?
That Hebrew word translated Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 is found about 60 times in the Old Testament, it is translated to the word HOWL every time except Isaiah 14:12.
The word says Satan was a LIAR and a MURDERER from the BEGINNING; therefore he was never a PERFECT archangel at the beginning.
Look how God's longsuffering and everlasting mercy plays a role in the Nation!
Here's a few points that's often overlooked in this portion of scripture.
Israel was already given the law at this time, however the keeping of the law played no role in them entering the promise land.
Lack of faith did.
There were no requirements on their part but to trust in the unconditional promises God gave to Abraham.
It's God's reputation and ability to provide those promises was and still is on display.
As we look ahead into Ch 14 we see Moses making intercession for Israel by God's promises, "Not Israel's faithfulness"
Notice Numbers 14:11-16.
Today the Church has joined this group in their mockery of God's promises!
God could have ended it right there but he made Promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob "who's later named Israel" that he will make a nation out of them and they would inherit a Land that he laid out.
That's important because they have NEVER possessed all the Land. But they will!
Look at the means by which Moses petition God on the behalf of Israel in Numbers 14:17-
And now, I beseech thee, let the power of my LORD be great, according as thou hast spoken, saying,
The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of THIS PEOPLE according unto the greatness of thy mercy, and as thou hast forgiven THIS PEOPLE, from Egypt even until now.
The Nation of Israel is given mercy and inheritance as God's first born.
Exodus 4:22.
Isaiah 14:1-2.
Hosea 2:23.
According to Paul he's not done with them and the promises will be fulfilled to them as a Nation and first born.
You are right "Lucifer" comes from Latin. The greek is "Eosphoros", also "Phoshoros". The Engl. word "Phosphorus" which is a chemical element which shines comes from this word. ts precise meaning is something or someone that brings light, although the former is used nowadays in grk only for the devil and the latter only for that chemical element. In ancient times that name was given to a star that was very bright during the first few hours at down. Today we know that that star is planet Venus which is the brightest star in the sky after the sun.
That name also appears in the Septuagint as "Eosphoros who you rise in the morning" instead of "Lucifer son of the morning" in the Masoretic ( Isaiah 14:12).
Another time that that name appears in the Bible, as Phosphoros, is in Peter 2:19, (KJB) "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:". In the grk text the phrase "day star" is written as "Phosphoros". Hence it is reffered to Jesus Christ.
Also in Rev 22:16 the KJB has translated the grk precisely.. It also is refered to Jesus Christ.
I believe in the Book of Isaiah Lucifer is called the morning star because before becoming satan he was a bright Herub, see also Ezekiel 28:11-19. That scripture was for the King of Tyrus but it is widely accepted that it is attributed to devi.
Also Spencer says something right, that all angels are called "morning stars', J( ob 38:7), so satan was one of them probably the most powerful before revolting against God as that scripture in Ezekiel 28:14 indicates. But enough with devil, I think...
The old testament hope is the son of righteousness will rise with healing in his wings. Malachi 4:2.
The morning star always rises at the darkest time of the night.
It indicates that the sun will be coming up shortly.
Job 3:9. "Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:
Here in Job 38:7 it indicates there's several morning stars.
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"
Isaiah 14:12 indicates Satan is just one of the many.
I believe Jesus is the Morning star for the Saints, Letting us know there's Light ahead of these dark times.
2Peter 1:19 puts it this way;
"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Yes , your interpretation has been on here before , this is a site that has been running for at least nine years so you can go back and read literally hundreds and hundreds of excellent posts from years gone by . Take a look some time . There are three or four deeply contentious topics that pop up on here regularly , I've learnt from reading the old posts , that it's much better to avoid those topics as things can get very vicious on here some times .
alex1939...Yes Alberto they are each a morning star...They both have a kingdom and a a throne...Thats y Jesus said its gonna be Kingdom against Kingdom...The Wheat and the Tares are sown in our hearts and minds and they are 2 morning stars... Isaiah 14:13..Satan is saying I will exault my throne above the Stars of God...But in Luke 10:18 Jesus saw satan fall from heaven as a lightning falls from Heaven..Thus his end is near...One will be taken and 1 will be left...I will say to the reapers gather up the Tares in bundles and burn them but gather the Wheat to my barn his Kingdom...Thats y Jesus said its gonna be Kingdom against Kingdom...and violence in heaven...The 2 seeds are 2 kingdoms 2 stars ..2 lights But 1 will be taken and 1 will be left.
.....The 2 men in 1 bed are just 1 man that has been bornagain but satan has sown a Tare in his hearts...Thus he has a thorn in the flesh the Tare...Paul was involved in a warfare with the Tare his thorn in the flesh he had become 2 ppl...Thats y he was saying when i wd do good evil is present with me...With my mind i serve the law of God but with my flesh the law of sin Oh Wretched man that i am.. Romans 7 :23...But i see another law in my members,..warring against the law of my mind, bringing me unto Captivity unto the law of sin that is in my members...The Wheat and the Tares are like 2 kingdoms 2 stars warring against each other...But the Dragon the beast satans seed is destroyed for ever...And the manchild that results from the good seed the wheat is the H.G. That Jesus bright n morning star is our Kingdom...And REMEMBER Jesus says the Kingdom will come as a lil Child which was our Wheat the H.G...Thats the dragon mama religion was trying to kill...The bond woman...k GBU
b. Re: Isaiah 14:12, "Lucifer, son of the morning" and then Revelation 22:16. These two Scriptures are un-related & the persons are in opposition to each other. The Isaiah one is a prophecy against the King of Babylon (verse 4), who outshone the kings of the Earth in splendour & power & because of it, believed he was even greater than the gods or even God Himself. This prophecy alludes to Satan who has similar ambitions, not knowing that he, as that earthly king, will "be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit". He might be called 'son of the morning' for his presence, power & what the world first looks for in the new day as they follow him & his ways. But The Morning Star shines throughout eternity, offering the "water of life freely" to all who are athirst. And He will come again in glorious splendour reigning with His saints forever.
In Revelation 22:12, the word for "bright" is 'lampros' in Greek, which simply means, 'magnificent, bright, splendid'. And "morning star", is a reference to the brightest star that is seen in the morning, being Venus. To connect Lucifer to Jesus is very wrong, since the meaning of Lucifer ('a shining one') and Jesus ('Yahweh is salvation') are clearly different and only Jesus is said to be the 'Morning Star'. The other 'morning stars' are given in Job 38:7, probably referring to the angels or heavenly beings.
I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. The resurrection tenants and time-line is specifically laid out in a particular order:
#1) The saints are resurrected first. They heal the earth alongside millions of mortals, great tribulation survivors, and at the end of the 1,000 years, God defeats the 3 evil spirits that make us behave cross towards one another. The saints are judged at the seventh trumpet, they are the first fruits of the 1st resurrection. You are implying at the 1st resurrection, Jesus is picking out souls for everlasting life, but it's the resurrected saints he's gathering prior to Revelation 14:1. 1 Thessalonians 4:17, Paul is referring to the saints only, not anyone else.
#2) The Great White throne Judgment, resurrection happens AFTER the 1,000 years, Revelation 20. This is the resurrection of the rest of humanity, the sinners, unbelievers, believers of false doctrine. This is my place, where I belong, you will find me amongst the sea of humble sinners, praying for redemption. Ezekiel 37:1-14, the valley of dry bones ALLEGORY of the 2nd resurrection where God had pity on the whole house of Israel and reestablished him at the last, Isaiah 14:1.
'Jesus has to prepare a place for us' is synonymous with Jesus creating a new heaven and new earth. The 1st resurrection saints will enter a totally destroyed world, Isaiah 24. The 2nd resurrection group will inherit paradise.
Hebrews 9:27 God set the parameters for entering the kingdom of heaven, part of it is to require a mortal death. Jesus Christ was the first example of being 'born again'. Jesus is the only man to live, die, having God resurrect him into everlasting life!
Please consider what I'm saying in accordance to the narrative of what Biblically occurs. I have 1 more intriguing post for you about the saints.
We expect Christians to have differences in viewpoints, were only human forever growing in the grace of God, at least we have a common ground and can learn from one another, but when someone denies what is plainly written to form a doctrine by spiritualizing ALL the text to fit their viewpoint, there is seriously something wrong! Especially when the climax of their doctrine deities man to become Gods!
When you see someone hold to such views with no repentance or conviction you begin not to look at the individual but the source behind it.
We find this type of pride in Isaiah 14:12-14. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH.
Satan also attacks the word of God as seen here in Genesis 3:4-5. And the serpent said unto the woman, YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE:
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, "AND YE SHALL BE AS gods", knowing good and evil.
WHAT IS THE POINT IN KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL IF EVIL DOES YOU NO HARM?
LET'S NOT FORGET THIS VIEW THAT IS BEING OFFERED IS NOT SAYING THAT ONLY THOSE WHO GO TO HEAVEN BECOME GODS. THIS VIEW HES PRESENTING IS SAYING ALL MAN KIND IS GOING TO BECOME GODS. THE RIGHTEOUS WHO FOLLOW CHRIST AND THE UNRIGHTEOUS.
Hopefully were not worried about many following that view but what is alarming is one misrepresenting the word of God as something you can't understand literally and the Holyspirit has no role in a believer's life.
This Psalm (29) reminds us of the great shakings that went on with the prophet Elijah in 1 Kings 19. It is also to Psalm 18 and 114. Verse 3 and verse 10 show God over the waters (as in Creation) and over the flood in Noah's time; directing the earth's cataclysm. The reference to the Cedars of Lebanon are also mentioned in Isaiah 14:8 among other references. They can symbolically refer to the armies or powers over the area; much as is seen in Ezekiel 26 which describes the souls of the pagan nations in Sheol from many nations.
Verse 9 describes the calves; and how God works in the reproduction process. This surely can be seen in the many passages of Job that describe the wonders of nature as to Leviathan; for example.
Ephesians 4:4 .... One Spirit ..... One body ......
Ephesians 4:6 One God, and Father of ALL .....who is above all, and through all, and IN YOU all.
Isaiah 14:16 Come ye near unto me (the man Christ Jesus), hear ye this, I have not spoken in secret from the beginning, from the time that it was, there am I (the man, Christ Jesus): now the LORD GOD (my father), and HIS SPIRIT hath sent me.
Isaiah 41:27 The FIRST (man, Christ Jesus) shall say to Zion .....I (the man Christ Jesus) will give to Jerusalem one that bringeth good tidings.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is ONE GOD, and ONE mediator between GOD and MEN, the man Christ Jesus.
1 John 2:22 ...he is antichrist, who denieth the Father and the Son.
John 17:5 ...O Father, glorify me (the man, Christ Jesus) with thine own self with the glory I had with thee, before the world was.
The Psalm seems to describe a king (small k) which would signify an earthly ruler; and some of the statements from verses 1 through 7 fit that premise. Nonetheless; there are Messianic traits from verse 8 on that indicate either Christ or God Himself fulfilling justice and wrath on the earth in the future.
Verse 4; for instance could fit with promises given to the lineage of David with Solomon; for example whose reign in theory would be infinite if he had remained obedient. These promises; however were not to be met with any fallible human ruler. We see sentiments to this in Psalm 2:7-8 as to us being the reward for Christ's sufferings as His adopted Sons.
Verse 8 talks of the "right hand" of God finding enemies. The right hand of God has been used to signify Christ ( Heb. 1:3; Rev. 5:7 etal).
Verse 9 is much like Malachi 4:1 as to the description of Christ's return at Armageddon.
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Verse 10 is like Isaiah 14:21 on the offspring of the wicked; and can be related to Revelation 17 and 18 as well with the final destruction of Babylon (also referred to extensively in the writings of Jeremiah).
Verse 11 reminds us of Jeremiah 18:12 as well as other Psalms in the devices of the wicked coming to naught. And verse 12 is similar to Psalm 56:9 although there are other verses that discuss God making people turn their backs before judgment is rendered.
Finally; verse 13 asks God to be exalted so we can praise Him and sing to Him because of His power. This could be singing a "new song" or other related verses ( Psalm 98:1 and of course Revelation verses).
This Psalm has many in depth descriptions of judgment including the final judgment of man.
I would call it more of a "declaratory" Psalm rather than "impreccatory" as it is more of a cause and effect statement of man's state of reaping what they sow. There seems to be no specific enemy of David that is being referred to here.
Verses 3 and 4 remind us of Psalm 23 where "in the presence of my enemies" a table is set before God ( Psalm 23:5). This verse is often lost; it seems in the theme of reassurance that people like to glean here (perhaps an uncomfortable verse for those who don't like to see this side of God's character).
Verses 5 and 6 remind us of Armageddon; as well as other verses such as Isaiah 14:17 on Antichrist. Verses 7 through 12 describe the justice of God's rule such as will be during the Millennium ( Isaiah 11:4). Verse 13 and 14 could also apply in some ways to Christ's suffering to death under His enemies and His return to the eastern gates ( Psalm 24:7); or perhaps the state David felt in constantly facing the threat (but never the actuality) of his enemies killing him.
Verses 15-17 are like many other cross references as well; with the first mention in Psalms of hell (v. 17). It is interesting to note that those nations who "forget God" are also included with the wicked unregenerate in particular. That indites places like the USA who have familiarity with the Gospel but not a "love of the truth." ( 2 Thess. 2:9-12).
The end (verse 18-20) once again show the nations fearing God and the needy "not always forgotten." That surely would indicate a state in the Millennium as even Christ said "the poor you always have with you." ( Matt. 26:11). Even in that verse; Christ takes precedence over all things; as He is the one to overcome and Lord of all. (see again Isaiah 11:4 and many other passages in that book for further insight).
Whatever the cause of such insanity; likely direct DNA manipulation from the mark of the beast much like the corruption when the "sons of god" had relations with women in Genesis and had offspring ( Genesis 6:2) and/or the mind control from the image of the beast somehow directed by some virtual reality it is clear that once man starts to attempt to band together to fight God it is a hopeless situation. Once again; however Satan's masterpiece of authority over the earth runs the course determined by God and no doubt there is no love lost when Satan is cast into the bottomless pit the same time the Beast and False Prophet are tossed into the fire. Satan's character won't change in the whole 1000 years imprisoned as he will attempt one more worldwide rebellion after the Millennium.
His power; of course is in willing subjects. There are many today who may acknowledge that they are sinners; but not that Satan is their master. There no doubt are some dedicated Satanists who are determined that they will soon fight Christ and God. They probably will have some deluded concept that they succeeded in killing Christ the first time and deny His indestructible Resurrection and somehow think they can now succeed in destroying an Omnipresent; Omnipotent and Omniscient God.
God takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked ( Ezek. 33:11). In this case; however the madness of their folly is laughed at. They are beyond any fear at this point; totally controlled by Satan. He who destroyed cities and made the world a wilderness ( Isaiah 14:17) is now cast out of his grave (Antichrist here; who is not given honor of a burial and verse 21 talks about the slaughter of his children (likely those at Armageddon). Satan is burned up before the earth later as well ( Ezekiel 28:18). Many other scriptures talk of Armageddon as well.
Verses 10 to 11 may be talking about rulers that survive physically into the Millennium and or the saints of God who rule
This chapter; like all scriptures should be taken as a literal prophetic event unless certain things are clearly symbolic. In this case everything is given a literal time frame and sequence; with supporting details not only in this chapter and the rest of Revelation; but other books including the Old Testament in scripture.
We can argue what we may about a Post Millennium mindset and agree to disagree if we have a basic belief in Christ's PHYSICAL return to earth in the future (something which FULL preterists seem to think has already occurred but in some mystical fashion). That would be the only case where we should disfellowship; and I and another brother in the Lord were forced to do that a few years ago. Something else which I consider very dangerous is the mindset that Satan is already bound in the bottomless pit. This is notwithstanding all the promises of the church that the powers of darkness will have no affect on us. There is certainly no limitation on killing the saints of God which Satan will do and continue to do until his punishment is enacted (at the end of the Tribulation and the end of the battle after he is released after the 1000 years). The general statement that a time worse than any that has ever happened or will ever exist again ( Matt. 24:21) with all the percentages of deaths listed in Revelation certainly has not occurred yet. We need to examine other scriptures such as Isaiah 14:17; Isaiah 41:5-13 on the coastlands burning; Isaiah 13:12 on man being rarer than the "gold of Ophir"; Isaiah 30:28 about the nations being put into the seive of destruction; Zechariah 12:9 on all nations gathered and half of Jerusalem taken and numerous other prophetic passages to see that indeed Armageddon must occur. Other verses talk of clear descriptions of mortal man still capable of sinning on the earth in the Millennium such as Zechariah 14:17-18; and Isaiah 65:20-25 being two of the clearest examples.
2Th 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
let no man or woman deceive you, that day shall not come (the day of Christ) except there come a falling away from the true faith, which has been happening slowly but seems to have ramped up today, with all this false theology, dispensationalism being at the top of the list in the destruction of American Christianity..
so the falling away is first then, that man of sin, the son of perdition is revealed
the man of sin and the son of perdition are speaking of the same.... Satan
here's the reference for the man of sin... Isaiah 14:16... start around verse 12 and read to verse 23 to get the context..
and the reference for the son of perdition... John 17:12
Rev 17:10,11 in order for the beast to be the 8th yet one of the 7 he had to have lived and died and ascended from the pit to live again. Isaiah 14:16 describes his arrival in hell ."is this the man that made the earth to tremble....
You are ready to learn about spiritual warfare, mentioned in Ephesians 6. Our enemies are invisible. But we know when they are around. They have fruits: fear, doubt, self-criticism, and more. They have personalities that give their names to you.
Learn what each piece of the Armor of God, does. We have to ingest into our born again spirit, scriptures that defeat their plans to discourage you. That's what Jesus did to Satan, when He was on the 40 day fast. He countered Satan's attack with the Word; with scriptures.
When He cast evil spirits out of people, we need to re-read all of those incidents. What did Jesus say? That's what we say too. We must know that we have authority to do it. Jesus imparted it to all of His disciples; His followers.
I find it easier to study scriptures in the Bible when it's quiet. We need to re-read the Gospels, Book of Acts__and see how it's done.
Isaiah 14:16-17 says that when we'll see Satan that we will see him as he really is.is this the man?! that made the earth to tremble. I'm not saying he's not hateful. He is. But Jesus defeated him. Stripped the authority from him__and gave it to BELIEVERS. Hallelujah!!
You have the authority; ask the Holy Spirit to give you the names of those evil spirits; you have the power to send them into outer darkness. IN THE NAME of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus did not leave us to be troubled by those invisible evil spirits. Our Sword in the armor of God, is made bigger by filling ourselves on scripture.
Television and video games are not useful when your house gets invaded by evil spirits. I get attacked too. Anyone doing anything with Jesus, is a target. Fight back. Take authority over your home.
Ok I've had attacks by real gnarly ones. But they gotta leave when you fire some scriptures at them.
As Gods children, we can ask for angelic assist for a time. You will experience the peace return to you. I'm happy for you because truly God has his hand on your life.
I am sorry, you may have misunderstood me, the discussion was first on God's eternal purpose, and then What came first Light or darkness? Those are deep subjects that make us think I thought I was giving my understanding on those two questions. I know I am not the best at explaining my understanding. You added Lucifer and something happening between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 my understanding of those two things in my mind did not fit in the discussion of your two questions.
When I said my understanding was different, I did not mean to discuss prophecy, I still do not see the word Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 and something happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 like a gap theory is associated with prophecy or the two questions, that is just me. If you could give more of your understanding of the devil some call Lucifer and what you think happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 and your two questions.
Thank you and God bless,
RLW
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,and by the word of their TESTIMONY;and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice,ye heavens(heavenly places in Christ JESUS-i.e. the celestial environments of the Old and New Testaments),and ye that dwell in them-the believers-.Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel)and of the sea!(sea/waters=peoples,and NATIONS,and multitudes of all tongues-Gentile peoples-which were deceived by that old serpent that deceives the whole world)for the Devil is come down unto you,having great wrath,because he knows that he has but a short time.13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth(from the heaven- Isaiah 14:12-15),he persecuted the woman...
14And to the woman were given TWO WINGS of a great eagle(the Old Testament and New Testament-two witnesses of GOD- Revelation 11:3-4.Take a kook),that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place,where she is nourished(by the Old and New Testaments-the Word of GOD,the Scriptures)for a time,and times, and half a time,from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman(be careful,don't drink of that water),that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth(144K of Israel- Revelation 7:1-10 and 14:1-5.Take a look)helped the woman(the Lord's Church- John 10:15-16),and the earth opened her mouth,and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. -The testimony of Christ is the Spirit of prophecy-Re.19:10 combined with Ro.8:9-11.GET READY
I KNOW you believe we are saved by grace ALONE, everything is the WORKS of GOD.
May the spirit of truth add to your comments:
You said OUR PART is confess and believe.
IS IT NOT the ''works'' of CHRIST IN US that CAUSES us to believe.
Philippians 1:29 For it is given (GRACE) to us on the behalf of Christ --- TO BELIEVE ----
ALL is the WORKS of GOD.
The ""belief" by and of, the "faith" by and of, the "life" by and of ---JESUS CHRIST ---
We are just the BODY of CHRIST, the "heart" and "mind" in that body; you and I and everyone else, IS CHRIST
Christ; the firstborn, of many brethren, we are the FRUIT of the TESTOR.
Isaiah 14:29 and out of the ROOT of the serpent (man) shall come forth a cockatrice (a saviour of men) and his (the saviours) FRUIT shall be a FIERY FLYING SERPENT.
God BLESS YOU as the spirit of truth makes us all ONE in Christ.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
Reading you comment above ref. Joel 2:31, and Rev.6:12-17, and Matt.24:29-31concerning "The sun turns dark and the moon to blood ((before)) the day of the LORD comes",
first of all I remember that "there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the Moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve Stars". Once "the sun tuns dark" the woman will be in darkness(terrible), by the way, at "midnight there was(there will be)a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him. Then all those virgins arose(will arise), and trimmed(and will trim) their lamps.
And the foolish said(will say) unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out"; Matt.25:6-8. The lamps is gone out at midnight? In full midnight darkness, in a so perilous hour?
In the above comparison described, I am trying to highlight the issue of the sun becoming dark as prophesied. I don't see or interpret as being a physical phenomenon.
Based in Revelation 9:1-3&10&6 & 11-12
1 I saw a STAR fall from heaven unto the earth( Isaiah 14:12-14 combined with 2 Thess.2:3-4): and to HIM was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And HE opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the SUN and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter
GOD BLESS
The prophet is Isaiah, Matthew 1:22-23 shows the fulfillment of one of the many prophecies, this one we see given in Isaiah 14:7. Immanuel or in Greek Emmanuel is a Hebrew personal name meaning God is with us or God is with the people. Immanuel/Emmanuel is representative of the fact that God would demonstrate his love for us by the giving of His only begotten Son, Jesus the Messiah for the deliverance and salvation of his people, John 3:16.
Hebrew names have meaning like Jesus or Joshua that comes from the same Hebrew name Yehoshua meaning God is deliverance. It is derived from yeho meaning God and shua meaning to deliver or save.
God bless,
RLW
Greetings in Christ JESUS
You said above:
"When the sun and the moon are darkened my understanding, this is literal...In the mid-500 AD, there was when the sun and moon were darkened which caused famine and plagues that was caused by volcanic eruptions... , meteorites, or something else it will be a sign before Jesus's second coming... in Joseph's dream, he does see the sun, moon, and stars, my understanding of this is a representation of Israel and the woman who had the man child, Jesus, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron we see in Rev.12:1"
In my view you need to meditate more deeply the Word of GOD, unfortunately your description above is from a human perspective,a stumble,not from GOD's perspective.Rev.12:1-There appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the MOON under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Here JESUS is not referring unto them which received Him not, and killed Him, quite the contrary, He is referring to His true Church in the world, He is the Sun, the Greater Light, the Light that came to the world,and it is He who clothes the woman with His Light.And under her feet who gives her support is the Holy Spirit sent by JESUS here- John 15:26 and 16:7-15-take a look. And the twelve stars of her crown are the twelve APOSTLES of our Lord JESUS,the Sun of Justice-Mal.4:2.
On the other hand,"When the sun and the moon are darkened my understanding,this's literal"according your human imagination What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing or self-executable: And the Word is revealing that a STAR fall from heaven( Isaiah 14:12-15)unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit,as the smoke of a great furnace;and the SUN and air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Get ready
For example, we know that Satan was already with sin & banished from God's Presence right at the time of the creation of man & woman ( Genesis 3:14,15, where Satan had used an animal to tempt man to also become like him & his quest to be like God). And Ezekiel 28:12-15, of Satan who infected the King of Tyrus to also usurp the Throne of God (see also Isaiah 14:12-15, where Satan also used the Babylonian king). Yet, we read that Satan still had access to Heaven, whereas Revelation 12:7-9 tells us that only after the "war in Heaven", Satan & his angels lost the battle, & was cast down to the Earth for all time.
So, in my cautious understanding, Satan no longer has access into Heaven, though in some way he still manages to bring accusation before God against those who belong to Jesus. But Satan & his work were judged at the Cross ( John 12:31), and though his work continues to tempt & blind the hearts of men since then, he knows his time is short ( Revelation 12:12), that in a future day he will be confined in the abyss ( Revelation 20:2,3), & at the end of the Millennium period, be locked away forever in the Lake of Fire ( Revelation 20:10). This is how I try to piece it all together - though not without conjecture or error.
Thanks for your reply,
However I don't quite know where you are coming from.
You stated; "God commands us to love our enemies. To pray for them. It is not the job of the True Believer to pass judgement on any individual. If we want to find sin we need only look in the mirror."
Let me make this clearer.
I said that that false doctrine that has been presented from this group for better than 3 years is sinister.
Then I gave the parallel with their beliefs.( All of man king becoming Gods) with the scripture on Satan/Lucifer found in Isaiah 14:14.
And I eluded to them saying over this same period of time the Gospel we preach was of man.
I say again, yes there's something sinister about that.
Where's the passing of Judgment you mentioned?
Should I agree with them for the sake of peace?
Find the recent thread where I spoke to them un truthfully that would cause Jema to react in such a personal way.
How do we show love to our enemies? Shun the Gospel that the reject?
Brother what you are describing is them condemning themselves!
I just declared there beliefs and have you noticed they haven't denied it.
God bless
Is it talking about Satan; or, is it talking about Christ giving up his GLORY and coming as sinful flesh to redeem creation?
Is the Hebrew word in Isaiah 14:12 translated correctly?
That Hebrew word translated Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 is found about 60 times in the Old Testament, it is translated to the word HOWL every time except Isaiah 14:12.
The word says Satan was a LIAR and a MURDERER from the BEGINNING; therefore he was never a PERFECT archangel at the beginning.
God bless you
The word of God CANNOT contradict itself.
Here's the short of it.
There's some on the site that holds to the belief that we will ALL be Gods.
Every person to have exit the womb will some day be Gods.
One day the worst sinners to ever live will not only go to heaven whether they repents or not but they will be Gods.!
In Isaiah 14:14 Satan says he will be "like" the Most High.
This group takes it further and says we all "WILL BE THE MOST HIGH! and they say there is no Satan, he was the flesh.
There's no consequences for sin!
We preach the Gospel (Good news) They say that's man's doctrine and you are going to be Gods no matter what you believe!
The delivery of this message is so important to them that they charge their name frequently.
You've been talking to them.
God bless.
Their false message is aa
Look how God's longsuffering and everlasting mercy plays a role in the Nation!
Here's a few points that's often overlooked in this portion of scripture.
Israel was already given the law at this time, however the keeping of the law played no role in them entering the promise land.
Lack of faith did.
There were no requirements on their part but to trust in the unconditional promises God gave to Abraham.
It's God's reputation and ability to provide those promises was and still is on display.
As we look ahead into Ch 14 we see Moses making intercession for Israel by God's promises, "Not Israel's faithfulness"
Notice Numbers 14:11-16.
Today the Church has joined this group in their mockery of God's promises!
God could have ended it right there but he made Promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob "who's later named Israel" that he will make a nation out of them and they would inherit a Land that he laid out.
That's important because they have NEVER possessed all the Land. But they will!
Look at the means by which Moses petition God on the behalf of Israel in Numbers 14:17-
And now, I beseech thee, let the power of my LORD be great, according as thou hast spoken, saying,
The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of THIS PEOPLE according unto the greatness of thy mercy, and as thou hast forgiven THIS PEOPLE, from Egypt even until now.
The Nation of Israel is given mercy and inheritance as God's first born.
Exodus 4:22.
Isaiah 14:1-2.
Hosea 2:23.
According to Paul he's not done with them and the promises will be fulfilled to them as a Nation and first born.
Romans 10:19-21 through
Romans 11:1-4.
Conclusion.
Romans 11:30-32.
God bless.
Just for information.
You are right "Lucifer" comes from Latin. The greek is "Eosphoros", also "Phoshoros". The Engl. word "Phosphorus" which is a chemical element which shines comes from this word. ts precise meaning is something or someone that brings light, although the former is used nowadays in grk only for the devil and the latter only for that chemical element. In ancient times that name was given to a star that was very bright during the first few hours at down. Today we know that that star is planet Venus which is the brightest star in the sky after the sun.
That name also appears in the Septuagint as "Eosphoros who you rise in the morning" instead of "Lucifer son of the morning" in the Masoretic ( Isaiah 14:12).
Another time that that name appears in the Bible, as Phosphoros, is in Peter 2:19, (KJB) "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:". In the grk text the phrase "day star" is written as "Phosphoros". Hence it is reffered to Jesus Christ.
Also in Rev 22:16 the KJB has translated the grk precisely.. It also is refered to Jesus Christ.
I believe in the Book of Isaiah Lucifer is called the morning star because before becoming satan he was a bright Herub, see also Ezekiel 28:11-19. That scripture was for the King of Tyrus but it is widely accepted that it is attributed to devi.
Also Spencer says something right, that all angels are called "morning stars', J( ob 38:7), so satan was one of them probably the most powerful before revolting against God as that scripture in Ezekiel 28:14 indicates. But enough with devil, I think...
GBU
The old testament hope is the son of righteousness will rise with healing in his wings. Malachi 4:2.
The morning star always rises at the darkest time of the night.
It indicates that the sun will be coming up shortly.
Job 3:9. "Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:
Here in Job 38:7 it indicates there's several morning stars.
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"
Isaiah 14:12 indicates Satan is just one of the many.
I believe Jesus is the Morning star for the Saints, Letting us know there's Light ahead of these dark times.
2Peter 1:19 puts it this way;
"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Hopefully someone can add .
God bless.
Isaiah 30:6 .....from whence come the young and old lion, the viper, and the flying fiery serpent .....
Isaiah 11:8 AND THE SUCKLING CHILD shall play on the hole of the asp, and the WEANED CHILD shall put his hand on the cockatrice's den.
Some WORDS OF GOD TO MEDITATE ON
.....The 2 men in 1 bed are just 1 man that has been bornagain but satan has sown a Tare in his hearts...Thus he has a thorn in the flesh the Tare...Paul was involved in a warfare with the Tare his thorn in the flesh he had become 2 ppl...Thats y he was saying when i wd do good evil is present with me...With my mind i serve the law of God but with my flesh the law of sin Oh Wretched man that i am.. Romans 7 :23...But i see another law in my members,..warring against the law of my mind, bringing me unto Captivity unto the law of sin that is in my members...The Wheat and the Tares are like 2 kingdoms 2 stars warring against each other...But the Dragon the beast satans seed is destroyed for ever...And the manchild that results from the good seed the wheat is the H.G. That Jesus bright n morning star is our Kingdom...And REMEMBER Jesus says the Kingdom will come as a lil Child which was our Wheat the H.G...Thats the dragon mama religion was trying to kill...The bond woman...k GBU
b. Re: Isaiah 14:12, "Lucifer, son of the morning" and then Revelation 22:16. These two Scriptures are un-related & the persons are in opposition to each other. The Isaiah one is a prophecy against the King of Babylon (verse 4), who outshone the kings of the Earth in splendour & power & because of it, believed he was even greater than the gods or even God Himself. This prophecy alludes to Satan who has similar ambitions, not knowing that he, as that earthly king, will "be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit". He might be called 'son of the morning' for his presence, power & what the world first looks for in the new day as they follow him & his ways. But The Morning Star shines throughout eternity, offering the "water of life freely" to all who are athirst. And He will come again in glorious splendour reigning with His saints forever.
In Revelation 22:12, the word for "bright" is 'lampros' in Greek, which simply means, 'magnificent, bright, splendid'. And "morning star", is a reference to the brightest star that is seen in the morning, being Venus. To connect Lucifer to Jesus is very wrong, since the meaning of Lucifer ('a shining one') and Jesus ('Yahweh is salvation') are clearly different and only Jesus is said to be the 'Morning Star'. The other 'morning stars' are given in Job 38:7, probably referring to the angels or heavenly beings.
I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. The resurrection tenants and time-line is specifically laid out in a particular order:
#1) The saints are resurrected first. They heal the earth alongside millions of mortals, great tribulation survivors, and at the end of the 1,000 years, God defeats the 3 evil spirits that make us behave cross towards one another. The saints are judged at the seventh trumpet, they are the first fruits of the 1st resurrection. You are implying at the 1st resurrection, Jesus is picking out souls for everlasting life, but it's the resurrected saints he's gathering prior to Revelation 14:1. 1 Thessalonians 4:17, Paul is referring to the saints only, not anyone else.
#2) The Great White throne Judgment, resurrection happens AFTER the 1,000 years, Revelation 20. This is the resurrection of the rest of humanity, the sinners, unbelievers, believers of false doctrine. This is my place, where I belong, you will find me amongst the sea of humble sinners, praying for redemption. Ezekiel 37:1-14, the valley of dry bones ALLEGORY of the 2nd resurrection where God had pity on the whole house of Israel and reestablished him at the last, Isaiah 14:1.
'Jesus has to prepare a place for us' is synonymous with Jesus creating a new heaven and new earth. The 1st resurrection saints will enter a totally destroyed world, Isaiah 24. The 2nd resurrection group will inherit paradise.
Hebrews 9:27 God set the parameters for entering the kingdom of heaven, part of it is to require a mortal death. Jesus Christ was the first example of being 'born again'. Jesus is the only man to live, die, having God resurrect him into everlasting life!
Please consider what I'm saying in accordance to the narrative of what Biblically occurs. I have 1 more intriguing post for you about the saints.
We expect Christians to have differences in viewpoints, were only human forever growing in the grace of God, at least we have a common ground and can learn from one another, but when someone denies what is plainly written to form a doctrine by spiritualizing ALL the text to fit their viewpoint, there is seriously something wrong! Especially when the climax of their doctrine deities man to become Gods!
When you see someone hold to such views with no repentance or conviction you begin not to look at the individual but the source behind it.
We find this type of pride in Isaiah 14:12-14. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH.
Satan also attacks the word of God as seen here in Genesis 3:4-5. And the serpent said unto the woman, YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE:
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, "AND YE SHALL BE AS gods", knowing good and evil.
WHAT IS THE POINT IN KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL IF EVIL DOES YOU NO HARM?
LET'S NOT FORGET THIS VIEW THAT IS BEING OFFERED IS NOT SAYING THAT ONLY THOSE WHO GO TO HEAVEN BECOME GODS. THIS VIEW HES PRESENTING IS SAYING ALL MAN KIND IS GOING TO BECOME GODS. THE RIGHTEOUS WHO FOLLOW CHRIST AND THE UNRIGHTEOUS.
Hopefully were not worried about many following that view but what is alarming is one misrepresenting the word of God as something you can't understand literally and the Holyspirit has no role in a believer's life.
GBU.
Verse 9 describes the calves; and how God works in the reproduction process. This surely can be seen in the many passages of Job that describe the wonders of nature as to Leviathan; for example.
Ephesians 4:4 .... One Spirit ..... One body ......
Ephesians 4:6 One God, and Father of ALL .....who is above all, and through all, and IN YOU all.
Isaiah 14:16 Come ye near unto me (the man Christ Jesus), hear ye this, I have not spoken in secret from the beginning, from the time that it was, there am I (the man, Christ Jesus): now the LORD GOD (my father), and HIS SPIRIT hath sent me.
Isaiah 41:27 The FIRST (man, Christ Jesus) shall say to Zion .....I (the man Christ Jesus) will give to Jerusalem one that bringeth good tidings.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is ONE GOD, and ONE mediator between GOD and MEN, the man Christ Jesus.
1 John 2:22 ...he is antichrist, who denieth the Father and the Son.
John 17:5 ...O Father, glorify me (the man, Christ Jesus) with thine own self with the glory I had with thee, before the world was.
God Bless you.
The Psalm seems to describe a king (small k) which would signify an earthly ruler; and some of the statements from verses 1 through 7 fit that premise. Nonetheless; there are Messianic traits from verse 8 on that indicate either Christ or God Himself fulfilling justice and wrath on the earth in the future.
Verse 4; for instance could fit with promises given to the lineage of David with Solomon; for example whose reign in theory would be infinite if he had remained obedient. These promises; however were not to be met with any fallible human ruler. We see sentiments to this in Psalm 2:7-8 as to us being the reward for Christ's sufferings as His adopted Sons.
Verse 8 talks of the "right hand" of God finding enemies. The right hand of God has been used to signify Christ ( Heb. 1:3; Rev. 5:7 etal).
Verse 9 is much like Malachi 4:1 as to the description of Christ's return at Armageddon.
'
Verse 10 is like Isaiah 14:21 on the offspring of the wicked; and can be related to Revelation 17 and 18 as well with the final destruction of Babylon (also referred to extensively in the writings of Jeremiah).
Verse 11 reminds us of Jeremiah 18:12 as well as other Psalms in the devices of the wicked coming to naught. And verse 12 is similar to Psalm 56:9 although there are other verses that discuss God making people turn their backs before judgment is rendered.
Finally; verse 13 asks God to be exalted so we can praise Him and sing to Him because of His power. This could be singing a "new song" or other related verses ( Psalm 98:1 and of course Revelation verses).
I would call it more of a "declaratory" Psalm rather than "impreccatory" as it is more of a cause and effect statement of man's state of reaping what they sow. There seems to be no specific enemy of David that is being referred to here.
Verses 3 and 4 remind us of Psalm 23 where "in the presence of my enemies" a table is set before God ( Psalm 23:5). This verse is often lost; it seems in the theme of reassurance that people like to glean here (perhaps an uncomfortable verse for those who don't like to see this side of God's character).
Verses 5 and 6 remind us of Armageddon; as well as other verses such as Isaiah 14:17 on Antichrist. Verses 7 through 12 describe the justice of God's rule such as will be during the Millennium ( Isaiah 11:4). Verse 13 and 14 could also apply in some ways to Christ's suffering to death under His enemies and His return to the eastern gates ( Psalm 24:7); or perhaps the state David felt in constantly facing the threat (but never the actuality) of his enemies killing him.
Verses 15-17 are like many other cross references as well; with the first mention in Psalms of hell (v. 17). It is interesting to note that those nations who "forget God" are also included with the wicked unregenerate in particular. That indites places like the USA who have familiarity with the Gospel but not a "love of the truth." ( 2 Thess. 2:9-12).
The end (verse 18-20) once again show the nations fearing God and the needy "not always forgotten." That surely would indicate a state in the Millennium as even Christ said "the poor you always have with you." ( Matt. 26:11). Even in that verse; Christ takes precedence over all things; as He is the one to overcome and Lord of all. (see again Isaiah 11:4 and many other passages in that book for further insight).
Whatever the cause of such insanity; likely direct DNA manipulation from the mark of the beast much like the corruption when the "sons of god" had relations with women in Genesis and had offspring ( Genesis 6:2) and/or the mind control from the image of the beast somehow directed by some virtual reality it is clear that once man starts to attempt to band together to fight God it is a hopeless situation. Once again; however Satan's masterpiece of authority over the earth runs the course determined by God and no doubt there is no love lost when Satan is cast into the bottomless pit the same time the Beast and False Prophet are tossed into the fire. Satan's character won't change in the whole 1000 years imprisoned as he will attempt one more worldwide rebellion after the Millennium.
His power; of course is in willing subjects. There are many today who may acknowledge that they are sinners; but not that Satan is their master. There no doubt are some dedicated Satanists who are determined that they will soon fight Christ and God. They probably will have some deluded concept that they succeeded in killing Christ the first time and deny His indestructible Resurrection and somehow think they can now succeed in destroying an Omnipresent; Omnipotent and Omniscient God.
God takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked ( Ezek. 33:11). In this case; however the madness of their folly is laughed at. They are beyond any fear at this point; totally controlled by Satan. He who destroyed cities and made the world a wilderness ( Isaiah 14:17) is now cast out of his grave (Antichrist here; who is not given honor of a burial and verse 21 talks about the slaughter of his children (likely those at Armageddon). Satan is burned up before the earth later as well ( Ezekiel 28:18). Many other scriptures talk of Armageddon as well.
Verses 10 to 11 may be talking about rulers that survive physically into the Millennium and or the saints of God who rule
Mark 10:42-45, 1Timothy 3:1-13, 1Timothy 5:17-22, Hebrews 13:7,17,24, 1Corinthians 4,
Exodus 18:13-26, John 7:24, Deuteronomy 1:16,18, 1Corinthians 11:31, Isaiah 3:4,12, Isaiah 14:2, Isaiah 32:1, Deuteronomy 15:5-18,
James 1:5,
Hopefully these are helpful
This chapter; like all scriptures should be taken as a literal prophetic event unless certain things are clearly symbolic. In this case everything is given a literal time frame and sequence; with supporting details not only in this chapter and the rest of Revelation; but other books including the Old Testament in scripture.
We can argue what we may about a Post Millennium mindset and agree to disagree if we have a basic belief in Christ's PHYSICAL return to earth in the future (something which FULL preterists seem to think has already occurred but in some mystical fashion). That would be the only case where we should disfellowship; and I and another brother in the Lord were forced to do that a few years ago. Something else which I consider very dangerous is the mindset that Satan is already bound in the bottomless pit. This is notwithstanding all the promises of the church that the powers of darkness will have no affect on us. There is certainly no limitation on killing the saints of God which Satan will do and continue to do until his punishment is enacted (at the end of the Tribulation and the end of the battle after he is released after the 1000 years). The general statement that a time worse than any that has ever happened or will ever exist again ( Matt. 24:21) with all the percentages of deaths listed in Revelation certainly has not occurred yet. We need to examine other scriptures such as Isaiah 14:17; Isaiah 41:5-13 on the coastlands burning; Isaiah 13:12 on man being rarer than the "gold of Ophir"; Isaiah 30:28 about the nations being put into the seive of destruction; Zechariah 12:9 on all nations gathered and half of Jerusalem taken and numerous other prophetic passages to see that indeed Armageddon must occur. Other verses talk of clear descriptions of mortal man still capable of sinning on the earth in the Millennium such as Zechariah 14:17-18; and Isaiah 65:20-25 being two of the clearest examples.
let no man or woman deceive you, that day shall not come (the day of Christ) except there come a falling away from the true faith, which has been happening slowly but seems to have ramped up today, with all this false theology, dispensationalism being at the top of the list in the destruction of American Christianity..
so the falling away is first then, that man of sin, the son of perdition is revealed
the man of sin and the son of perdition are speaking of the same.... Satan
here's the reference for the man of sin... Isaiah 14:16... start around verse 12 and read to verse 23 to get the context..
and the reference for the son of perdition... John 17:12
Learn what each piece of the Armor of God, does. We have to ingest into our born again spirit, scriptures that defeat their plans to discourage you. That's what Jesus did to Satan, when He was on the 40 day fast. He countered Satan's attack with the Word; with scriptures.
When He cast evil spirits out of people, we need to re-read all of those incidents. What did Jesus say? That's what we say too. We must know that we have authority to do it. Jesus imparted it to all of His disciples; His followers.
I find it easier to study scriptures in the Bible when it's quiet. We need to re-read the Gospels, Book of Acts__and see how it's done.
Isaiah 14:16-17 says that when we'll see Satan that we will see him as he really is.is this the man?! that made the earth to tremble. I'm not saying he's not hateful. He is. But Jesus defeated him. Stripped the authority from him__and gave it to BELIEVERS. Hallelujah!!
You have the authority; ask the Holy Spirit to give you the names of those evil spirits; you have the power to send them into outer darkness. IN THE NAME of Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus did not leave us to be troubled by those invisible evil spirits. Our Sword in the armor of God, is made bigger by filling ourselves on scripture.
Television and video games are not useful when your house gets invaded by evil spirits. I get attacked too. Anyone doing anything with Jesus, is a target. Fight back. Take authority over your home.
Ok I've had attacks by real gnarly ones. But they gotta leave when you fire some scriptures at them.
As Gods children, we can ask for angelic assist for a time. You will experience the peace return to you. I'm happy for you because truly God has his hand on your life.