John 11:26 says... And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
A true believer is "crucified with Christ" and it is not I who live ( Gal. 2:20). Our experience will differ somewhat in timing from those already asleep ( 1 Thess. 4:16). As Hebrews 9:27 states we are all to "die once and face the judgment". Also it states being "absent from the body is present with the Lord." ( 2 Cor. 5:8). This necessitates the "Bema Seat" judgment to occur at death; or in the case of those still alive and raptured up; at that time. So in a sense; it will be in completing the death process of the sanctification which ultimately brings us eternal life.
I have often reminded people that martyrdom should it come is the end of a life of sanctification. In some ways that would be much like the Rapture in that there is a sudden end to our time on earth. It is possible someone could be martyred after a rather poor testimony and lukewarmness in this life; but more often scripturally at least it seems the persecutions and sufferings prepare a person for that end and death is simply a final display of Christ's holiness in the life of a saint. These truths are what makes all the claimed dreams about the rapture seem suspect. For one thing the Resurrection of the just is rarely even mentioned even though scripture states it to be the first thing immediately followed it seems by the Rapture of those still alive at the time. Some debate if Revelation 4:1 is indeed a foreshadowing of the Rapture; I would say it is and certainly the vision of Christ in the first chapter and his state of being as though dead will be our own condition when first beholding His glory. There is much ado about deceased relatives and other glories of a heavenly place and whatever is stated scripturally about that is true but of course the majesty of God overshadows that. Whatever the trip up is; the Bema Seat takes front & center
John 6:54 states: Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
There are two views on the subject; the "transubstantiation" argument of the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions and the purely symbolic or metaphorical doctrines we find in many Protestant churches. In the first view we have to hold to an abhorrent view that there is an ongoing or perpetual reinstitution of Christ's sacrifice at every communion; clearly contrary to where Christ stated "it is finished" on the cross and Hebrews 9:28 speaking of His one time sacrifice for many. The Protestant viewpoint; however can tend to treat communion and in fact many other rites or ceremonies as merely symbolic and thus be calloused to verses such as 1 Corinthians 11:30 which states that many have become sick and died (fallen asleep) due to taking communion unworthily.
Communion therefore is something which each individual is held accountable for but also involves a union in the Body of Christ through the function of the Holy Spirit. We certainly can't isolate these warnings just for communion; for instance we have no business being baptized without a proper confession of faith and marriages also need to be taken seriously in regard to the covenant vows. The New Covenant brings the blood ATONEMENT which essentially exchanges His life for our own as our spiritual sustenance; along with His broken body. He purchased us with the cost of His life and redeemed us from death and hell by taking our place on the cross of Calvary. Such a detestable imagery of a snake on a pole was an early representation of this Numbers 21. A man was cursed when hung on a tree ( Deut. 21:22-23). We are then partakers in Christ and His sufferings ( 1 Peter 4:13); see also Hebrews 3:14 on enduring to the end.
In terms of eternal physical life; we of course have the tree of life as mentioned in the Garden. We also will be raised incorruptible if we are in Him.
There is only one time that I am aware of where a literal heaven was spoken against; in this case a book on Postmillenialism. I don't have the book with me at present (it may be buried in a box somewhere). I should note that one good point was in that book; namely that many of the PreMil camp tend to state or act as though the gates of hell are too powerful; rather than holding out to the promises that they will not prevail until the end ( Matthew 16:18). In the proper context (as opposed to a Dominioninsm mentality) this is a valid criticism of many who are hiding out waiting for the Rapture and not occupying until He comes ( Luke 19:13).
In regard to hell; however of course there are many more professing believers who have convinced themselves that it is merely a symbolic statement. Such often tend to hold on to a cessation mentality; that is of a human soul before the final Resurrection presumably at the end of the Millennium or at least the Rapture. They think that someone will simply wake up thinking it was just a moment before that they died at the Resurrection; thus making the suffering of the lost delayed into the future to assuage their conscience (often if not for their own fate for that of their loved ones at present who have died). Of course; in light of verses such as 2 Corinthians 5:8; and Hebrews 9:27 among others this seems like a ridiculous concept. I would argue this point of a belief in literal hell is important enough that we cannot consider fellowship with other believers who don't agree at least in our own place of corporate worship. Again; we can try to witness to them the truth. This is needed doctrine because we need to explain the grave state of the lost; and that there is NO peace for the wicked. ( Isaiah 48:22 and many other passages). Hell not being literal is due to a misunderstanding of the meaning for the grave and sheol (the land of the dead).
Whether in the "Arminian" or "Calvinistic" camps; God's sovereignty and man's inability to save himself apart from His grace is fairly universally accepted. The issue comes in as to whether mans' "free will" acts to make a decision whether to follow or not follow Christ and "accept" Him into their hearts. Both camps will hold to Romans 10:9 related to a verbal and heartfelt confession accompanying saving faith. I would contend that it is not as some like to call it "decisional regeneration" that occurs as a result of something we say; but that what we say is a reflection of God already moving one towards repentance as scripture states it is a gift of God ( 2 Tim. 2:25 and also stated in the Book of Acts). We are truly saved "apart from the law" ( Romans 3:21) by grace; but of course Paul makes it clear that we aren't granted a "license to sin" once we have escaped from the wrath of God. Nothing we can do will earn us grace; and more importantly there is no desire in unregenerate man to follow God; at best man can try to avoid the consequences of sin which of course makes us all as Judas Iscariot who betrayed Christ yet realized he had betrayed an innocent man and thus hung himself. (see 2 Corinthians 7:10). It should be obvious how essential the doctrine of grace is; as all other eligions and even Christian cults will offer a combination of faith in Christ and works as needed to be saved; or it is asceticism such as Eastern religions offer that seem to bring a utopia for someone after doing good works after a lengthy cycle of death and rebirth (reincarnation) which of course fundamentally is opposed by Hebrews 9:27. Often it is another Christ; whether presented as as sage or great prophet which is expounded that we should follow rather than the true Jesus who was the Son of God. John 8:24 makes it clear that we must believe that "I am" truly meaning that He is the Christ. ( Matt. 16:13-20). ONLY CHRIST CAN REVEAL THE TRUTH TO A MAN.
Adam and Eve were Saved by the cross the same way all that were saved in the OT.
I Would suggest forgiveness for Adam and Eve was granted before they were created.
I don't believe Adam and Eve surprised God by their disobedience in the Garden.
Christ was foreordained as the Lamb of God that take away the sins of the world "BEFORE" the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:18-20. Revelation 13:8.
Jesus' death on the cross was not an after thought by God after the event of mankind falling into sin.
God covering of Coats of skin for Adam and Eve suggest that there was a shedding of blood to cover their nakedness.
I'm sure the fig leaves mentioned in Genesis 3:7 covered there outwardly exposed bodies but not the inward exposed nakedness guilt caused by their transgression.
Besides, this was the work of their own hands.
Only the blood of Christ can take away sin
and those OT sacrifices pointed forward to Christ.
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.
God has all along been revealing the "lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world through these OT sacrifices.
You stated, "The Old Testament is the foundation; the NT builds on that foundation.
Testament means covenant.
Here I will highlight some verses in Hebrews 9:1-28.
8) The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9) Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11) But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
23) It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24) For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Verse 11 says, "not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building.
I will use that verse to springboard us onto the foundation which we build on that was prophesied in the OT but was rejected because of Israel blindness.
Isaiah 8:14
1 Peter 2:6-8
1 Corinthians 3:11
Ephesians 2:20
Romans 9:31-33.
When a building is being erected the corner stone is the first stone layed and where everything is squared and leveled.
Those who was saved in the OT also rested on this foundation.
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Ephesians 5:27 is often thought of erroneously; as if the Lord can't come back until His church gets their act together. Let's be honest for a second; there never will be a time the true saints of God will all be in this state before the Rapture; as is clear from verses such as 1 Corinthians 3:15 and other verses clearly indicate. This leaves us with only two possibilities; that not all believers will be raptured and some will be left behind to get their garments cleaned; or everyone will be raptured who is now a believer but there will be differing rewards or lack thereof. I don't wish to be dogmatic either way here as the scriptures seem to point towards the first option with close examination. In any event those who already have passed away are now in the presence of the Lamb as seen from Hebrews 9:27.
It shouldn't need to be stated that some who claim to be Christians are wolves in sheep's clothing. There is hope for some who reject Christ at present to repent in the Tribulation. There may be some now who will wake up the other side of the Rapture and realize what they thought about their state was different than reality. Some no doubt will be susceptible and fall eway to Antichrist; others will accept martyrdom rather than denounce Christ. In my opinion such a smackdown is necessary to jump start these individuals; again going against the logic that Christ is waiting for the church to be purified in their own timing. The Lord is patient and longsuffering but let's face it if we can't see how dark things are already then we are pretty well emasculated and unable to have any effective witness today. Satan isn't hiding anymore; nor his minions. Their agenda is in your face everywhere; it seems. His Bride truly is here today; but in a remnant largely hidden from "churchianity" at large.
Christ is the end of the law of Moses the law of sin and death as the old laws were just a shadow of things to come as it was dedicated by blood. In the new testament, the new laws of spirit of life is also dedicated by blood by the blood of Jesus Christ. Jesus' blood replaced those old commandments.
Hebrews 9:13] For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
[14] How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
[15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[16] For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
[18] Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
[19] For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
[20] Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
[21] Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
[23] It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
[24] For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.
Where in the bible does it say that the soul will cease to exist? If anyone ceases to exist when they die, can you please answer these questions. I will be the student here, so you have my attention. If you choose to answer these things, I do thank you ahead of time.
In Matthew 25:46, Is this not describing two classes of people, those who received Christ and belong to Him, and those who have rejected Him? If those who reject Him die and cease to exist, how can they go away into eternal punishment if they do not exist?
Revelation 14:11 says that the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night. How can this be for someone that does not exist?
Hebrews 9:27 tells us that it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment. How can anyone who dies and ceases to exist be judged since this judgment comes (after) death?
Revelation 21:8 identifies a class of individuals who will end up in the lake of fire, and it also mentions that this is the second death. If they went through the first death and ceased to exist, how can they experience a second death if they do not exist?
2 Thessalonians 1:9 says that they will suffer the punishment of (eternal destruction), away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might. How is ceasing to exist considered suffering?
Jema, since Romans 6:23 has been quoted which says that the wages of sin is death, how do you get cease to exist out of this word death when the Greek word used (Thanatos) means separation, not cessation of life? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say that at death, there is a separation from our physical body since this is what the word death means?
Revelation 14:10 talks about being tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. Who is this for and how long will this torment last?
I have more questions to follow. Thank you for your time.
John 1:29 ..... Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the "SIN" of the world ..... this sin is singular .....
I agree this "SIN" is a single sin.
Then you said: This speaks of the penalty of sin.
I disagree: the Lamb takes away this single "SIN" not the penalty of this single "SIN" and if this single "SIN" is not purged out of US: the PENALTY STANDS
This is the ONLY "SIN" not covered by the Lamb's blood.
God's word tells us what this single "SIN" is.
You have quoted this in other comments.
John 16:8 And when he is come he will reprove the world of "SIN"
This is the same single "SIN" and same world of John 1:29
This is the same single "SIN" that keep the children of Israel from entering the promised land, the PENALTY: they DIED in the wilderness.
John 16:9 Of "SIN" because they BELIEVE NOT ......
And what purges this "SIN"
Proverbs 16:6 By TRUTH and MERCY iniquity is PURGED.
Christ is the spirit of TRUTH, and when he IS COME he will reprove the world of UNBELIEF.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins (plural) of many and unto them who look for him shall he appear the second time without "SIN" (singular)(unbelief) unto salvation.
Then you stated the following and asked another question;
"You will say, but I confess my sins and ask for forgiveness."
Your second question;
What happen if you miss one sin, and asking forgiveness, of just one sin you might have overlooked?
Jordyn, When I came to Christ I confessed that I am a sinner and in need of a savior.
I wasn't let off the hook when God saved me.
We know there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood. Hebrews 9:22.
The wages of sin is death.
Romans 6:23.
John 1:29 says The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the "SIN" of the world. That sin is singular. This speaks of the penalty of sin.
That takes care of the deficiency of this body of death that is waiting for redemption.
The question today is did Christ pay the redeeming price for our sins before we sinned or after.
He paid the penalty for our sin "before" we sinned, and this was ordained of him before the foundation of the world.
So, I may have missed a sin but he certainly did not.
Most everyone is looking for something that has already happened.
They won't believe Christ's words that he fulfilled ALL the prophecies.
Christ came the SECOND TIME as the NEW CREATION, CHRIST IN YOU, just as he said: I COME as a thief in the night.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is APPOINTED (by the prophecies) unto men once to die (on the cross of Christ), but after this the judgement (coming the truth through the word, you and Christ were RAISED as ONE).
1 Peter 4:17 For the time IS COME that JUDGEMENT (rightly dividing the words of God) must begin at the HOUSE of GOD ....
Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a SON over HIS OWN HOUSE, whose HOUSE YE ARE ....
You the house, Christ is the HOUSEHOLDER; you, the house only consist, because of the one that HOLDS YOU.
Your the BODY of CHRIST, you every movement and thought are OF HIM, and if you don't AGREE with him"
The wages are DEATH, instead of LIFE.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the SINS of many, and to THEM who LOOK for him he shall APPEAR THE SECOND TIME, without SIN unto SALVATION.
do you perceive what the Holy Spirit of Truth is revealing here?
Hebrews 6:1
therefore leaving the doctrines of Christ---not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works. meaning sinning & repenting as a way of a Christian life
one of these doctrines was that of baptisms, its in the plural form, He's distinguishing from John's, which was only a type & shadow of Christ baptism. John only reach to the cleansing of the flesh, symbolic of the ritual cleansing of the Jewish law, which he was under.
Christ, the Substance brought the better things to come, the baptism that John point to & desired, it reaches to the heart, the center & seat of our very being. Hebrews 9:14
Cleansing out the seeds of the evil one. Hebrews 10:22 evil conscience--his presence must be there Mark 7:21
Thus, Holy Spirit is revealing there's Ephesians 4:5 that's required to reach to this state of perfection were we sin no more.
Friends, as I lay here, after responding to bro Dan last thread, I continue to feel the springs from the Fountain of Life bubbling up within me, my cup is running over, so I added then added again to that which I received,
Come on; Zechariah 13:1Isa 55:1-4 the Grace of God/ Light Rev 22:17
lets us Micah 4:2 the Jerusalem Gal 4:26 in Spirit & in Truth
I like you was sincere, etc, but I was sincerely wrong, oh how I struggled, the veil always separated me from my Beloved, there was no pure unity of the faith & oneness that Christ prayed for, my conscience bearing witness against me, no matter how I cried, repented, fasted, prayed or studies the letter, & walk accordingly, yet, the veil was still hung between us & why? 2Cor 3:6 I remember it quiet well, a yoyo of an experience.
1 Cor 15:34,45 true knowledge is given by the true Grace of God who appears bringing salvation to all mankind.
Ronald, have you ever had an unction that cross your own will, telling you not to do or say something & show you what to do or to say? & if not heeded to, condemn you for it? Or maybe you were in a tryst state, & say or did something & later Holy Spirit/ Grace convicted you of wrong? This is the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, Grace/Light/Anointing we have received & appears within us, & if minded & exercised is the daily Cross & is not a lie, abide in Him & in the steadfast confidence continual exercising of it, will eventually set us free from the law of sin & death. Received by Luke 10:42Psalms 130:5"the word of His Grace, who words are Spirit & Life" Psalms 145:12-18Psalms 123:2Psalms 62:5 meaning silencing all thoughts & imaginations & in stillness of soul, wait. Psalms 46:10 and He will appear Hebrews 9:28 . Believing that it is He appearing to you is faith, hearing the Word of God in the heart, that Paul preached & this faith purifies the heart & gives victory over the world.
2Cor 3:16-18 this stillness & waiting upon the Lord is turning to Him, who is Spirit, whom takes the veil away & gives us knowledge of Himself, 2Cor 4:6,7 setting us free from the bondage of sin, we know the Truth & the Truth set us free & transforms us into His Image. Light begets light, in whom there is no darkness at all.
causing you Philippians 2:13Hebrews 13:21 "obviously this is not sinning".
a very important subject here in both topics, faith & suffering
1.Faith, we all know that Rom 10:17, Paul earlier says it is Rom 10:8 he's not talking about the letter here
But John 6:63 The Grace / Light that appears in the heart bringing salvation to all mankind Hebrews 9:28 that wait on Him.
Believing that it is He, speaking to us & His first works within us is teaching us to deny all ungodliness & the learning of righteousness
Paul says in Gal 3:2 so there's an increase of His Spirit as we received His judgement of sin & instruction in righteousness.
Here is Power offered to overcome all sin. For He who show us our sin, will not only take them away, but power is given to preserve from repeating the sin. There is one requirement, a truly contrite & broke heart birth through godly sorrow for the offense. This is saving faith produce by the Spirit, True faith purifies the heart, cleanses the vessel 2 Timothy 2:21
2.Suffering 2Timothy 3:12
As we look through both Testaments, we see a common thread, the suffering of the faithful
Paul by the Spirit call them 2Cor 4:17 which suffering brings a far more eternal weigh of glory
Hebrews 11:35,38 attain a better resurrection, whom the world was not worthy of.
We must have a renewing of our minds as Paul contiu.. 2Cor 4:18
What an encouragement on this side of the grave, & the reward is eternal,
Folks,
lets pick up our Cross & follow Jesus, He merciful & faithfully cleanses us from all unrighteousness, takes away our sins against Him, continually increases us with His Spirit alone the Way, until we are baptize unto His death, being dead unto sin, baptizes us in His Spirit, each one fitted in the body according to His gifts, we enter into the fellowship of His suffering (He's there with us ) therefore we experience the Power of His resurrection, & He never leaves us or forsakes us.
Then rewards us for what He alone done through us, what a deal, Come on!
You have solid points here, that are contributed by the Scriptures you given.
But in all fairness KJV has discrepancies too,
These translators were men learnt in the letter, it doesn't imply they were obedient to the Grace of God in the working of sanctification of the Spirit, obedience unto righteousness unto holiness to the new creature, but quite the opposite according to Scripture, 2Cor 3:6 could God used them? yes, even as God used Nebuchadnezzar
In the uses of Neb, this reveals to us that God has a secret way of using the wicked for His greater purposes, in this case, punishing Israel for their continuous disobedience to the manifestation of the Grace of God given under the Old Covenant. Hebrews tell us, the Grace of His words did not profit them because of unbelief in the Light. Psalms 19:7,8
This Word of God that is pure, tried in the furnace of the earth 7 times; that you so zealously speak of
Declares 1Cor 2:9-13 --- The Grace of God, the True Light that appears to all mankind, which is the living manifestation of His 2nd coming bringing us salvation, Hebrews 9:28 His spiritual appearances within our hearts, the working out of Matt 11:27
The Spirit alone is the interpreter of what He has inspires.
How much more so now, with the coming of Christ, we have the fullest of Grace & Truth reveal, whose beginning is as a tiny grain of mustard Seed in our hearts, yet; if believe in & obeyed grows by the operations of His Spirit to our profit, by faith in hearing the Word of God in our hearts. This is the sure Word of prophecy that Peter refers too!
And if not obeyed, then we will receive a just recompense of reward as they did...indeed, even more so according to Hebrews 10:29 Hebrew 12:25
Do some research in England during this moment of the reformation, when the KJV was written, their fruits/works declare who servants they are.
Christ has already come the second time, as a thief in the night, you don't see the thief?
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered for the SINS of many, and to those who look for him he shall APPEAR THE SECOND TIME without SIN unto SALVATION.
John 16:7 For I tell you the truth, it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter WILL NOT COME unto you, but if I depart, I will sent him to you.
John 15:26 ....but when the Comforter IS COME ....... even the SPIRIT of TRUTH ..... he will testify of me ......
Colossians 1:27 ..... this mystery ..... Christ ON YOU ......
You cannot be saved from DEATH until God sends his angles to HARVEST the SEED.
ONLY mature SEED are harvested, immature SEED are scattered to the wind as is chaff.
Fruit produces SEED, the fruit never look like the SEED, the SEED always looks like the SEED that was planted.
Luke 11:8 Now the PARABLE is this: the SEED is the word of God.
John 1:14 ..... and the word (SEED) was made flesh.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ (the SEED) was once offered for the sins of many; and unto them that look for him (TRUTH, Christ is truth) he (the SEED) shall APPEAR the SECOND TIME.
Matthew 24:30 Then SHALL APPEAR the sign (the image oft he SEED) of the son of man in heaven (IN YOU).... the son of man COMING in the CLOUDS of heaven (IN YOU).
Colossians 1:27 .... this mystery ..... Christ in YOU ......
Matthew 12:28 But if I CAST OUT DEVILS by the Spirit (TRUTH) of God; then the Kingdom of God has COME TO YOU.
8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch.
9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
10 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.
These passages are deep with prophetic meanings. Christ (or the Branch) will bring the atonement; and allow fulfillment for Joshua and his fellowservants (part of the assembly inclusive of all saints) through the sevenfold spirit of God ( Revelation 1:4).
The stone that is engraved perhaps is signifying a new covenant like the one in Exodus 32:16; or is like the seal of the Spirit
in Ephesians 1:13; or 2 Corinthians 1:22.
Verse 10 is cross referenced by Micah 4:4 and other passages; indicating the Millennial promises for Israel which likely extends to the whole world at that time.
Here we see the reference to the two olive trees with the golden lampstand and the explanation. This parallels Revelation 11:4 as seen at the end of the chapter in verse 14. This chapter seems to imply Zerubbabel and Joshua as being the individuals in question here; while Revelation stronly suggests Elijah will return in the Tribulation ( Malachi 3:1). The second individual in my opinion based on Hebrews 9:27 could be Enoch; others have suggested other possibilities.
In John 20:17, the word translated "touch" is a Greek word which means "to cling to, to lay hold of.
She wanted to worship him and never loose him again.
But there was still work to be done in cleansing our temple by presenting himself in our behalf.
Then in the same verse Jesus says why he told Mary not to touch him.
"FOR I AM NOT YET ASCENDED TO MY FATHER.
I believe Jesus was in his role as the High priest as this point.
He was to present himself as the sacrifice.
Hebrews 9:25-26. Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hebrews 10:12-22. But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
And having an high priest over the house of God;
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
The Law having a SHADOW of good things TO COME, and not the very IMAGE of the things(so just like a shadow),could never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. Hebrews 10:1
Hebrews 9:-Verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service,and aA EARTHLY sanctuary.There was a tabernacle made; the first, where the priests went always into to accomplishing the service of GOD, but into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
But the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
which was A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience, which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood He entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
If the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to GOD, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living GOD? And for this cause JESUS is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified
The cleansing offer here, is from the evil one, who rules in the old Adamic nature, the first birth.
The dead works are by Satan influence upon hearts & minds, thus we yielding our member unto unrighteousness Rom 6:16
The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is obedience to the Spirit. Rom 8:14
Hebrews 10:5-10
The nature of the Salvation that Christ offer was to rid us of sin. John 1:29 "ONCE & FOR ALL".
Bring us to a life of obedience, by the Spirit through the new birth 1Pet 1:2
Hebrews 10:14-18 Where the remission of these are, there is no more offering for sin.
& why, as stated in v 16,17 , the expression here is they that are sanctified, by obedience to His holy will & are made perfect, they sin no more. Christ being formed in the heart by God writing His Commandment on the tablet of our heart & placing His fear there Jeremiah 32:40
Hebrews 10:26-31
If we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the Truth, the Grace of God that appears to all mankind Titus 2:11-13
Yet, Hebrews 9:26 states, "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself". Writing about the yearly sacrifices made by the OT High Priests, the writer explains that Jesus' Sacrifice was different even in this respect: Jesus came only once to deal with the sin problem forever. If His Sacrifice applied to the OT faithful living in those days as well, then Jesus' Crucifixion had to begin from those days, & done often.
This tells us that before Jesus came & gave His Life, all Israel were under the Law & remained condemned for their sin. But God chose to be merciful to them through their obedience in sacrifices. Though those sacrifices looked ahead to Jesus' Perfect Sacrifice, His Sacrifice had no bearing upon them at that time, or else as the Scripture gives, "He must often have suffered since the foundation of the world". And Jesus would have had to "suffer" often, as the OT Covenants were in force & the New Covenant in His Blood had not occurred. But He didn't suffer & die for them at that time, but only after "he appeared (now once in the end of the world) to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself"; only at Calvary, the price of sin (for those of the OT & latter days) applied. Even if the Gospel preached unto them was of Jesus' Sacrifice, it would have not been understood by them & not even applied to them - until Jesus finally came & secured those OT saints & us post-Cross, to His praise.
Thanks again David0921 for these Scriptures, & of course, I don't share in your understanding of them. I will look at the main one: Hebrews 4:1-3.
You understand this passage as referring to the Gospel that was delivered to us, that it was the same as they (OT Israel) also received. However, this passage is not talking about the Gospel of Salvation through a Redeemer, but about the Gospel that was ordained before the worlds were framed together - and that is, that God's Plan was for all (Jew & Gentile) to enter into HIS REST. And that is what the Gospel is: for us, we know that perfect rest (from our struggle with sin, of certain judgement for it, of being accepted by God & receiving His Peace) can only be attained through the Cross & looking unto it.
The Gospel that was 'preached as well unto them' contained nothing of Christ's Sacrifice. To force the word 'Gospel' in the OT to mean the same as in the NT, is to misapply the meaning & understanding of Scripture. When the Gospel came to us, we were dead in our sins & in desperate need of redemption & only through Christ's death we could have any hope. When the Gospel came to them, they were already the elect, chosen of God, to remain faithful to God, obeying His Commands, & observing the Sacrifices & associated laws. If they exercised faith & looked only unto God & none other, they would be saved; just as Abraham, Moses, & others were. Which also agrees with the translation of Enoch & Elijah, where these men were counted faithful & for God's Own purpose, were removed from the Earth. But then the question: 'weren't these also sinners, though being the Elect, needing cleansing; how could faith & sacrifice only save them?' Hebrews 9:13,14: these sacrifices only sanctified the people to the "purifying of the flesh"; God instituted this that they may be forgiven & He could dwell in the midst of them & be their constant Guide, providing them that temporary covering for their sin. Onto Page 2.
Colossians 2:4 "And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words."
1 John 2:1 "My little children these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sins we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
Ephesians 2:3 "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."
Exodus 25:13
Hebrews 9:5 "And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercy seat; of which we cannot now speak particularly."
John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep."
1 Peter 2:25 "For ye were as sheep gone astray; but now are returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls."
Isaiah 42:1 "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring judgement to the Gentiles."
John 8:28- 29 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak those things. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always these things that please him."
1 Timothy 2:8 "I will therefore that men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting."
Romans 9:5 "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen."
Psalms 45:7 "Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, Thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."
John 17:1 "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through Thine own name those whom thou has given me, that they may be one, as we are."
The verses you stated from Jeremiah are also used by Paul in Hebrews 9:8-12. Paul considers this new covenant to Israel that Jeremiah is taking about is the New Testament that God introduced firstly to Hebrews and then to the rest of the world. But Jews didn't receive Jesus, and consequently God, so their House was left abandoned by God. Until when? Until they repend for crucifying Jesus and ask for Him. When is this going to occur? At the very end. Paul in Rom 11:25-27 says that they will be saved after the fullness of the nations will come in (the salvation).
So who are the elect now? Romans 8:30-32,
"30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of GOD'S ELECT? It is God that justifieth."
Please pay attention to the above verse 33.
God's intention when creating the Hebrew nation through Abraham was not to have a superior race than the rest who will conquer the world. His aim is to create a nation which will preserve the faith to the true God, through which at the proper time the Savior would erect to sacrifice Himself for the salvation of all people. In God's mind was the whole mankind not just a race.
So He established the church on Pentecost
Ephessians 2:14-17,
"14For he is our peace, who hath made both (Jews and gentiles) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
The Scriptures are the words of God, & a testimony of Him, but not God the Word, who was in the beginning with God before the Scriptures were written. The Jews had the Scriptures the words of God, & crucified the Word of God that was in the beginning with God. John 5:39 As then so now, people refuse to come to Him who has return to us by His Spirit John 16:13, they stick to the letters of the Scriptures without coming to the Author of the Scriptures, & honor the letter before the Author, just like the hardhearted Jews. Jesus said Matt 11:28, a living breathing person, a God who is a Spirit.
The true dignity & honoring of the Scriptures is that they give us a true testimony of Him, & points to His return in Spirit bringing us the words of salvation Hebrews 9:28 Here they are profitable for doctrine 2 Timothy 3:16 confirming to us what the Spirit declare. The Spirit that gave the Scriptures forth, He comes again to bring us into the personal experiential knowledge of them. For only He knows the mind of God 1Cor 2:10,11 thus the Scripture have their rightful place & shine forth their glory for which they were given.
You stated, "the apostles had not been told the Gospel will also be given to the Gentiles, the time had not come. There were another 3.5 years after Jesus's ministry before the apostles were told the gospel of Christ will be given to the Greeks/Gentiles.
I agree with Gigi, The Apostles were told to go out to preach the gospel to the whole world and I believe the old economy "if that's the correct term to use" ended at the crucifixion when the veil was rent from top to bottom.
The timing of the beginning and ending of what God ordained in the old and in the new covenant was totally of God, "Not according to man's response to it"
The OT scripture said salvation would go out to the Gentiles by the seed which shall come. some expected it in the New Testament as seen in Luke 2:30-32. For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, which thou hast prepared before the face of all people. A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Also.
Jesus said in John 2:19-22 he would tare the temple down and build it again in 3 days.
That was the end of temporary temple that only served as a shadow of what was to come. Hebrews 9:6-11.
When he rose from the grave, he went to the disciples and see here what he said in Luke 24:42-48.
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
And ye are witnesses of these things!
Concerning the veil being rent from top to bottom.
Here is what was accomplished at the death and resurrection of our Lord.
Here in Hebrews 6:17-20 we see Jesus as our "forerunner" and High Priest.
We have been once and for all cleansed and can now enter therein with a clear conscience. See Hebrews 9:8-26.
Also.
Hebrews 10:8-22.
The veil being rent signifies the end of the old covenant and the resurrection ushered in the new covenant.
The commission came right afterwards. Luke 24:42-49. and Matthew 28:19-20.
There's two stages that we may obtain too in the work of regeneration, 1st to the state Adam was before the fall, then as we continue steadfast, faithful & confident unto the end, in exercising the Grace that brings salvation, He brings us into the 2nd state of being in Christ who never sin, although He was tempted. This show us that being tempted is not a sin, only in our submission to it.
I'm presently in this 1st stage & have fallen,
Sanctification is a progress work, & as we continue to exercise Grace appearance in our hearts. Hebrews 9:28Rom 10:10 the wording of Scripture is "unto salvation", denoting this on going work. Philippians 2:12 There is no instant salvation! There will be encounter with the Lord, where His Spirit deals mighty within us, tearing down the strongholds of thoughts & imaginations that keeps us in bondage & separated from Him, this a part of the ongoing work of salvation.
I believe David0921, that you have understood me correctly to a point. However, I'm not saying that Israel's salvation (a yet appointed time in the future), those who were faithful to the Lord was based on their works (i.e. obedience to the Law, sacrificial offerings, etc.), but that salvation would come to them (looking forward) by the merits of Christ's Death, just as for us post-Cross.
When I said 'works based', I didn't mean that they would be saved by their law-keeping, etc., for nothing they or we could ever do, would secure redemption. They only did what was required of them by God (which was based solely on works yet should have caused them to cleave to God trusting in Him alone). Were they saved by their works? If they were, then there was no need for Jesus' Coming. But those works (obedience, sacrifice) brought them into a standing before God, where the Blood of Christ could retrospectively be applied to them; these who had no knowledge of such a Redeemer, but only knowing sin & cast upon God's Mercies for the covering of that sin until their redemption (salvation). Hebrews 9:15, 'the called only received the promise'.
I don't know whether that explains it better, but your quote, "Salvation is by Grace alone" seems to not take into account what takes place before salvation is granted: how a person's life is directed, how & when the Gospel comes to him, or the drawing in by the Father ( John 6:44). For us, we don't consider this as Works, only when we try to add to or replace the Grace of God. Jews weren't adding to their future salvation; they only did what was required of them; and God knowing their hearts would apply the True Sacrifice. See Romans 4:1-5: righteousness that was imputed to Abraham. Why? Because he believed God, having hope, trusting His Word, without calling upon his works. Likewise, to all OT Israel who placed their trust & hope in God were marked for salvation, without works - unlike those who disobeyed or trusted in their works.
John 11:26 says... And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
A true believer is "crucified with Christ" and it is not I who live ( Gal. 2:20). Our experience will differ somewhat in timing from those already asleep ( 1 Thess. 4:16). As Hebrews 9:27 states we are all to "die once and face the judgment". Also it states being "absent from the body is present with the Lord." ( 2 Cor. 5:8). This necessitates the "Bema Seat" judgment to occur at death; or in the case of those still alive and raptured up; at that time. So in a sense; it will be in completing the death process of the sanctification which ultimately brings us eternal life.
I have often reminded people that martyrdom should it come is the end of a life of sanctification. In some ways that would be much like the Rapture in that there is a sudden end to our time on earth. It is possible someone could be martyred after a rather poor testimony and lukewarmness in this life; but more often scripturally at least it seems the persecutions and sufferings prepare a person for that end and death is simply a final display of Christ's holiness in the life of a saint. These truths are what makes all the claimed dreams about the rapture seem suspect. For one thing the Resurrection of the just is rarely even mentioned even though scripture states it to be the first thing immediately followed it seems by the Rapture of those still alive at the time. Some debate if Revelation 4:1 is indeed a foreshadowing of the Rapture; I would say it is and certainly the vision of Christ in the first chapter and his state of being as though dead will be our own condition when first beholding His glory. There is much ado about deceased relatives and other glories of a heavenly place and whatever is stated scripturally about that is true but of course the majesty of God overshadows that. Whatever the trip up is; the Bema Seat takes front & center
There are two views on the subject; the "transubstantiation" argument of the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions and the purely symbolic or metaphorical doctrines we find in many Protestant churches. In the first view we have to hold to an abhorrent view that there is an ongoing or perpetual reinstitution of Christ's sacrifice at every communion; clearly contrary to where Christ stated "it is finished" on the cross and Hebrews 9:28 speaking of His one time sacrifice for many. The Protestant viewpoint; however can tend to treat communion and in fact many other rites or ceremonies as merely symbolic and thus be calloused to verses such as 1 Corinthians 11:30 which states that many have become sick and died (fallen asleep) due to taking communion unworthily.
Communion therefore is something which each individual is held accountable for but also involves a union in the Body of Christ through the function of the Holy Spirit. We certainly can't isolate these warnings just for communion; for instance we have no business being baptized without a proper confession of faith and marriages also need to be taken seriously in regard to the covenant vows. The New Covenant brings the blood ATONEMENT which essentially exchanges His life for our own as our spiritual sustenance; along with His broken body. He purchased us with the cost of His life and redeemed us from death and hell by taking our place on the cross of Calvary. Such a detestable imagery of a snake on a pole was an early representation of this Numbers 21. A man was cursed when hung on a tree ( Deut. 21:22-23). We are then partakers in Christ and His sufferings ( 1 Peter 4:13); see also Hebrews 3:14 on enduring to the end.
In terms of eternal physical life; we of course have the tree of life as mentioned in the Garden. We also will be raised incorruptible if we are in Him.
There is only one time that I am aware of where a literal heaven was spoken against; in this case a book on Postmillenialism. I don't have the book with me at present (it may be buried in a box somewhere). I should note that one good point was in that book; namely that many of the PreMil camp tend to state or act as though the gates of hell are too powerful; rather than holding out to the promises that they will not prevail until the end ( Matthew 16:18). In the proper context (as opposed to a Dominioninsm mentality) this is a valid criticism of many who are hiding out waiting for the Rapture and not occupying until He comes ( Luke 19:13).
In regard to hell; however of course there are many more professing believers who have convinced themselves that it is merely a symbolic statement. Such often tend to hold on to a cessation mentality; that is of a human soul before the final Resurrection presumably at the end of the Millennium or at least the Rapture. They think that someone will simply wake up thinking it was just a moment before that they died at the Resurrection; thus making the suffering of the lost delayed into the future to assuage their conscience (often if not for their own fate for that of their loved ones at present who have died). Of course; in light of verses such as 2 Corinthians 5:8; and Hebrews 9:27 among others this seems like a ridiculous concept. I would argue this point of a belief in literal hell is important enough that we cannot consider fellowship with other believers who don't agree at least in our own place of corporate worship. Again; we can try to witness to them the truth. This is needed doctrine because we need to explain the grave state of the lost; and that there is NO peace for the wicked. ( Isaiah 48:22 and many other passages). Hell not being literal is due to a misunderstanding of the meaning for the grave and sheol (the land of the dead).
Whether in the "Arminian" or "Calvinistic" camps; God's sovereignty and man's inability to save himself apart from His grace is fairly universally accepted. The issue comes in as to whether mans' "free will" acts to make a decision whether to follow or not follow Christ and "accept" Him into their hearts. Both camps will hold to Romans 10:9 related to a verbal and heartfelt confession accompanying saving faith. I would contend that it is not as some like to call it "decisional regeneration" that occurs as a result of something we say; but that what we say is a reflection of God already moving one towards repentance as scripture states it is a gift of God ( 2 Tim. 2:25 and also stated in the Book of Acts). We are truly saved "apart from the law" ( Romans 3:21) by grace; but of course Paul makes it clear that we aren't granted a "license to sin" once we have escaped from the wrath of God. Nothing we can do will earn us grace; and more importantly there is no desire in unregenerate man to follow God; at best man can try to avoid the consequences of sin which of course makes us all as Judas Iscariot who betrayed Christ yet realized he had betrayed an innocent man and thus hung himself. (see 2 Corinthians 7:10). It should be obvious how essential the doctrine of grace is; as all other eligions and even Christian cults will offer a combination of faith in Christ and works as needed to be saved; or it is asceticism such as Eastern religions offer that seem to bring a utopia for someone after doing good works after a lengthy cycle of death and rebirth (reincarnation) which of course fundamentally is opposed by Hebrews 9:27. Often it is another Christ; whether presented as as sage or great prophet which is expounded that we should follow rather than the true Jesus who was the Son of God. John 8:24 makes it clear that we must believe that "I am" truly meaning that He is the Christ. ( Matt. 16:13-20). ONLY CHRIST CAN REVEAL THE TRUTH TO A MAN.
Adam and Eve were Saved by the cross the same way all that were saved in the OT.
I Would suggest forgiveness for Adam and Eve was granted before they were created.
I don't believe Adam and Eve surprised God by their disobedience in the Garden.
Christ was foreordained as the Lamb of God that take away the sins of the world "BEFORE" the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:18-20. Revelation 13:8.
Jesus' death on the cross was not an after thought by God after the event of mankind falling into sin.
God covering of Coats of skin for Adam and Eve suggest that there was a shedding of blood to cover their nakedness.
I'm sure the fig leaves mentioned in Genesis 3:7 covered there outwardly exposed bodies but not the inward exposed nakedness guilt caused by their transgression.
Besides, this was the work of their own hands.
Only the blood of Christ can take away sin
and those OT sacrifices pointed forward to Christ.
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.
God has all along been revealing the "lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world through these OT sacrifices.
See Hebrews 9:7-14.
I hope this helps.
God bless.
You stated, "The Old Testament is the foundation; the NT builds on that foundation.
Testament means covenant.
Here I will highlight some verses in Hebrews 9:1-28.
8) The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9) Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11) But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
23) It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24) For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Verse 11 says, "not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building.
I will use that verse to springboard us onto the foundation which we build on that was prophesied in the OT but was rejected because of Israel blindness.
Isaiah 8:14
1 Peter 2:6-8
1 Corinthians 3:11
Ephesians 2:20
Romans 9:31-33.
When a building is being erected the corner stone is the first stone layed and where everything is squared and leveled.
Those who was saved in the OT also rested on this foundation.
God bless.
Ephesians 5:27 is often thought of erroneously; as if the Lord can't come back until His church gets their act together. Let's be honest for a second; there never will be a time the true saints of God will all be in this state before the Rapture; as is clear from verses such as 1 Corinthians 3:15 and other verses clearly indicate. This leaves us with only two possibilities; that not all believers will be raptured and some will be left behind to get their garments cleaned; or everyone will be raptured who is now a believer but there will be differing rewards or lack thereof. I don't wish to be dogmatic either way here as the scriptures seem to point towards the first option with close examination. In any event those who already have passed away are now in the presence of the Lamb as seen from Hebrews 9:27.
It shouldn't need to be stated that some who claim to be Christians are wolves in sheep's clothing. There is hope for some who reject Christ at present to repent in the Tribulation. There may be some now who will wake up the other side of the Rapture and realize what they thought about their state was different than reality. Some no doubt will be susceptible and fall eway to Antichrist; others will accept martyrdom rather than denounce Christ. In my opinion such a smackdown is necessary to jump start these individuals; again going against the logic that Christ is waiting for the church to be purified in their own timing. The Lord is patient and longsuffering but let's face it if we can't see how dark things are already then we are pretty well emasculated and unable to have any effective witness today. Satan isn't hiding anymore; nor his minions. Their agenda is in your face everywhere; it seems. His Bride truly is here today; but in a remnant largely hidden from "churchianity" at large.
Hebrews 9:13] For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
[14] How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
[15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[16] For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
[18] Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
[19] For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
[20] Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
[21] Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
[23] It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
[24] For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.
(Part 1):
Where in the bible does it say that the soul will cease to exist? If anyone ceases to exist when they die, can you please answer these questions. I will be the student here, so you have my attention. If you choose to answer these things, I do thank you ahead of time.
In Matthew 25:46, Is this not describing two classes of people, those who received Christ and belong to Him, and those who have rejected Him? If those who reject Him die and cease to exist, how can they go away into eternal punishment if they do not exist?
Revelation 14:11 says that the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night. How can this be for someone that does not exist?
Hebrews 9:27 tells us that it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment. How can anyone who dies and ceases to exist be judged since this judgment comes (after) death?
Revelation 21:8 identifies a class of individuals who will end up in the lake of fire, and it also mentions that this is the second death. If they went through the first death and ceased to exist, how can they experience a second death if they do not exist?
2 Thessalonians 1:9 says that they will suffer the punishment of (eternal destruction), away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might. How is ceasing to exist considered suffering?
Jema, since Romans 6:23 has been quoted which says that the wages of sin is death, how do you get cease to exist out of this word death when the Greek word used (Thanatos) means separation, not cessation of life? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say that at death, there is a separation from our physical body since this is what the word death means?
Revelation 14:10 talks about being tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. Who is this for and how long will this torment last?
I have more questions to follow. Thank you for your time.
Romans 6:23 The wages of "SIN" is death .....
John 1:29 ..... Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the "SIN" of the world ..... this sin is singular .....
I agree this "SIN" is a single sin.
Then you said: This speaks of the penalty of sin.
I disagree: the Lamb takes away this single "SIN" not the penalty of this single "SIN" and if this single "SIN" is not purged out of US: the PENALTY STANDS
This is the ONLY "SIN" not covered by the Lamb's blood.
God's word tells us what this single "SIN" is.
You have quoted this in other comments.
John 16:8 And when he is come he will reprove the world of "SIN"
This is the same single "SIN" and same world of John 1:29
This is the same single "SIN" that keep the children of Israel from entering the promised land, the PENALTY: they DIED in the wilderness.
John 16:9 Of "SIN" because they BELIEVE NOT ......
And what purges this "SIN"
Proverbs 16:6 By TRUTH and MERCY iniquity is PURGED.
Christ is the spirit of TRUTH, and when he IS COME he will reprove the world of UNBELIEF.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins (plural) of many and unto them who look for him shall he appear the second time without "SIN" (singular)(unbelief) unto salvation.
God BLESS YOU!
Those are actually very good questions.
Yo asked; Do I sin?
Then you stated the following and asked another question;
"You will say, but I confess my sins and ask for forgiveness."
Your second question;
What happen if you miss one sin, and asking forgiveness, of just one sin you might have overlooked?
Jordyn, When I came to Christ I confessed that I am a sinner and in need of a savior.
I wasn't let off the hook when God saved me.
We know there is no remission of sin without the shedding of blood. Hebrews 9:22.
The wages of sin is death.
Romans 6:23.
John 1:29 says The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the "SIN" of the world. That sin is singular. This speaks of the penalty of sin.
That takes care of the deficiency of this body of death that is waiting for redemption.
The question today is did Christ pay the redeeming price for our sins before we sinned or after.
He paid the penalty for our sin "before" we sinned, and this was ordained of him before the foundation of the world.
So, I may have missed a sin but he certainly did not.
God bless.
Most everyone is looking for something that has already happened.
They won't believe Christ's words that he fulfilled ALL the prophecies.
Christ came the SECOND TIME as the NEW CREATION, CHRIST IN YOU, just as he said: I COME as a thief in the night.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is APPOINTED (by the prophecies) unto men once to die (on the cross of Christ), but after this the judgement (coming the truth through the word, you and Christ were RAISED as ONE).
1 Peter 4:17 For the time IS COME that JUDGEMENT (rightly dividing the words of God) must begin at the HOUSE of GOD ....
Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a SON over HIS OWN HOUSE, whose HOUSE YE ARE ....
You the house, Christ is the HOUSEHOLDER; you, the house only consist, because of the one that HOLDS YOU.
Your the BODY of CHRIST, you every movement and thought are OF HIM, and if you don't AGREE with him"
The wages are DEATH, instead of LIFE.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the SINS of many, and to THEM who LOOK for him he shall APPEAR THE SECOND TIME, without SIN unto SALVATION.
God BLESS YOU!
do you perceive what the Holy Spirit of Truth is revealing here?
Hebrews 6:1
therefore leaving the doctrines of Christ---not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works. meaning sinning & repenting as a way of a Christian life
one of these doctrines was that of baptisms, its in the plural form, He's distinguishing from John's, which was only a type & shadow of Christ baptism. John only reach to the cleansing of the flesh, symbolic of the ritual cleansing of the Jewish law, which he was under.
Christ, the Substance brought the better things to come, the baptism that John point to & desired, it reaches to the heart, the center & seat of our very being. Hebrews 9:14
Cleansing out the seeds of the evil one. Hebrews 10:22 evil conscience--his presence must be there Mark 7:21
Thus, Holy Spirit is revealing there's Ephesians 4:5 that's required to reach to this state of perfection were we sin no more.
Friends, as I lay here, after responding to bro Dan last thread, I continue to feel the springs from the Fountain of Life bubbling up within me, my cup is running over, so I added then added again to that which I received,
Come on; Zechariah 13:1 Isa 55:1-4 the Grace of God/ Light Rev 22:17
lets us Micah 4:2 the Jerusalem Gal 4:26 in Spirit & in Truth
in love & truth
I like you was sincere, etc, but I was sincerely wrong, oh how I struggled, the veil always separated me from my Beloved, there was no pure unity of the faith & oneness that Christ prayed for, my conscience bearing witness against me, no matter how I cried, repented, fasted, prayed or studies the letter, & walk accordingly, yet, the veil was still hung between us & why? 2Cor 3:6 I remember it quiet well, a yoyo of an experience.
1 Cor 15:34,45 true knowledge is given by the true Grace of God who appears bringing salvation to all mankind.
Ronald, have you ever had an unction that cross your own will, telling you not to do or say something & show you what to do or to say? & if not heeded to, condemn you for it? Or maybe you were in a tryst state, & say or did something & later Holy Spirit/ Grace convicted you of wrong? This is the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, Grace/Light/Anointing we have received & appears within us, & if minded & exercised is the daily Cross & is not a lie, abide in Him & in the steadfast confidence continual exercising of it, will eventually set us free from the law of sin & death. Received by Luke 10:42 Psalms 130:5"the word of His Grace, who words are Spirit & Life" Psalms 145:12-18 Psalms 123:2 Psalms 62:5 meaning silencing all thoughts & imaginations & in stillness of soul, wait. Psalms 46:10 and He will appear Hebrews 9:28 . Believing that it is He appearing to you is faith, hearing the Word of God in the heart, that Paul preached & this faith purifies the heart & gives victory over the world.
2Cor 3:16-18 this stillness & waiting upon the Lord is turning to Him, who is Spirit, whom takes the veil away & gives us knowledge of Himself, 2Cor 4:6,7 setting us free from the bondage of sin, we know the Truth & the Truth set us free & transforms us into His Image. Light begets light, in whom there is no darkness at all.
causing you Philippians 2:13 Hebrews 13:21 "obviously this is not sinning".
Grace be to you
a very important subject here in both topics, faith & suffering
1.Faith, we all know that Rom 10:17, Paul earlier says it is Rom 10:8 he's not talking about the letter here
But John 6:63 The Grace / Light that appears in the heart bringing salvation to all mankind Hebrews 9:28 that wait on Him.
Believing that it is He, speaking to us & His first works within us is teaching us to deny all ungodliness & the learning of righteousness
Paul says in Gal 3:2 so there's an increase of His Spirit as we received His judgement of sin & instruction in righteousness.
Here is Power offered to overcome all sin. For He who show us our sin, will not only take them away, but power is given to preserve from repeating the sin. There is one requirement, a truly contrite & broke heart birth through godly sorrow for the offense. This is saving faith produce by the Spirit, True faith purifies the heart, cleanses the vessel 2 Timothy 2:21
2.Suffering 2Timothy 3:12
As we look through both Testaments, we see a common thread, the suffering of the faithful
Paul by the Spirit call them 2Cor 4:17 which suffering brings a far more eternal weigh of glory
Hebrews 11:35,38 attain a better resurrection, whom the world was not worthy of.
We must have a renewing of our minds as Paul contiu.. 2Cor 4:18
What an encouragement on this side of the grave, & the reward is eternal,
Folks,
lets pick up our Cross & follow Jesus, He merciful & faithfully cleanses us from all unrighteousness, takes away our sins against Him, continually increases us with His Spirit alone the Way, until we are baptize unto His death, being dead unto sin, baptizes us in His Spirit, each one fitted in the body according to His gifts, we enter into the fellowship of His suffering (He's there with us ) therefore we experience the Power of His resurrection, & He never leaves us or forsakes us.
Then rewards us for what He alone done through us, what a deal, Come on!
Jesse you inspire me, thank you
You have solid points here, that are contributed by the Scriptures you given.
But in all fairness KJV has discrepancies too,
These translators were men learnt in the letter, it doesn't imply they were obedient to the Grace of God in the working of sanctification of the Spirit, obedience unto righteousness unto holiness to the new creature, but quite the opposite according to Scripture, 2Cor 3:6 could God used them? yes, even as God used Nebuchadnezzar
In the uses of Neb, this reveals to us that God has a secret way of using the wicked for His greater purposes, in this case, punishing Israel for their continuous disobedience to the manifestation of the Grace of God given under the Old Covenant. Hebrews tell us, the Grace of His words did not profit them because of unbelief in the Light. Psalms 19:7,8
This Word of God that is pure, tried in the furnace of the earth 7 times; that you so zealously speak of
Declares 1Cor 2:9-13 --- The Grace of God, the True Light that appears to all mankind, which is the living manifestation of His 2nd coming bringing us salvation, Hebrews 9:28 His spiritual appearances within our hearts, the working out of Matt 11:27
The Spirit alone is the interpreter of what He has inspires.
How much more so now, with the coming of Christ, we have the fullest of Grace & Truth reveal, whose beginning is as a tiny grain of mustard Seed in our hearts, yet; if believe in & obeyed grows by the operations of His Spirit to our profit, by faith in hearing the Word of God in our hearts. This is the sure Word of prophecy that Peter refers too!
And if not obeyed, then we will receive a just recompense of reward as they did...indeed, even more so according to Hebrews 10:29 Hebrew 12:25
Do some research in England during this moment of the reformation, when the KJV was written, their fruits/works declare who servants they are.
a friend
in love & truth.
Christ has already come the second time, as a thief in the night, you don't see the thief?
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered for the SINS of many, and to those who look for him he shall APPEAR THE SECOND TIME without SIN unto SALVATION.
John 16:7 For I tell you the truth, it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter WILL NOT COME unto you, but if I depart, I will sent him to you.
John 15:26 ....but when the Comforter IS COME ....... even the SPIRIT of TRUTH ..... he will testify of me ......
Colossians 1:27 ..... this mystery ..... Christ ON YOU ......
God Bless YOU!
What is one SAVED from?
DEATH
You cannot be saved from DEATH until God sends his angles to HARVEST the SEED.
ONLY mature SEED are harvested, immature SEED are scattered to the wind as is chaff.
Fruit produces SEED, the fruit never look like the SEED, the SEED always looks like the SEED that was planted.
Luke 11:8 Now the PARABLE is this: the SEED is the word of God.
John 1:14 ..... and the word (SEED) was made flesh.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ (the SEED) was once offered for the sins of many; and unto them that look for him (TRUTH, Christ is truth) he (the SEED) shall APPEAR the SECOND TIME.
Matthew 24:30 Then SHALL APPEAR the sign (the image oft he SEED) of the son of man in heaven (IN YOU).... the son of man COMING in the CLOUDS of heaven (IN YOU).
Colossians 1:27 .... this mystery ..... Christ in YOU ......
Matthew 12:28 But if I CAST OUT DEVILS by the Spirit (TRUTH) of God; then the Kingdom of God has COME TO YOU.
God Bless YOU!
8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch.
9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
10 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.
These passages are deep with prophetic meanings. Christ (or the Branch) will bring the atonement; and allow fulfillment for Joshua and his fellowservants (part of the assembly inclusive of all saints) through the sevenfold spirit of God ( Revelation 1:4).
The stone that is engraved perhaps is signifying a new covenant like the one in Exodus 32:16; or is like the seal of the Spirit
in Ephesians 1:13; or 2 Corinthians 1:22.
Verse 10 is cross referenced by Micah 4:4 and other passages; indicating the Millennial promises for Israel which likely extends to the whole world at that time.
Here we see the reference to the two olive trees with the golden lampstand and the explanation. This parallels Revelation 11:4 as seen at the end of the chapter in verse 14. This chapter seems to imply Zerubbabel and Joshua as being the individuals in question here; while Revelation stronly suggests Elijah will return in the Tribulation ( Malachi 3:1). The second individual in my opinion based on Hebrews 9:27 could be Enoch; others have suggested other possibilities.
Interesting viewpoint.
Here's another one that I find provocative.
In John 20:17, the word translated "touch" is a Greek word which means "to cling to, to lay hold of.
She wanted to worship him and never loose him again.
But there was still work to be done in cleansing our temple by presenting himself in our behalf.
Then in the same verse Jesus says why he told Mary not to touch him.
"FOR I AM NOT YET ASCENDED TO MY FATHER.
I believe Jesus was in his role as the High priest as this point.
He was to present himself as the sacrifice.
Hebrews 9:25-26. Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hebrews 10:12-22. But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
And having an high priest over the house of God;
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
God bless.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
The Law having a SHADOW of good things TO COME, and not the very IMAGE of the things(so just like a shadow),could never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. Hebrews 10:1
Hebrews 9:-Verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service,and aA EARTHLY sanctuary.There was a tabernacle made; the first, where the priests went always into to accomplishing the service of GOD, but into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
But the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
which was A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience, which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood He entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
If the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to GOD, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living GOD? And for this cause JESUS is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified
Friends
Concerning Hebrews 9:14
The cleansing offer here, is from the evil one, who rules in the old Adamic nature, the first birth.
The dead works are by Satan influence upon hearts & minds, thus we yielding our member unto unrighteousness Rom 6:16
The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is obedience to the Spirit. Rom 8:14
Hebrews 10:5-10
The nature of the Salvation that Christ offer was to rid us of sin. John 1:29 "ONCE & FOR ALL".
Bring us to a life of obedience, by the Spirit through the new birth 1Pet 1:2
Hebrews 10:14-18 Where the remission of these are, there is no more offering for sin.
& why, as stated in v 16,17 , the expression here is they that are sanctified, by obedience to His holy will & are made perfect, they sin no more. Christ being formed in the heart by God writing His Commandment on the tablet of our heart & placing His fear there Jeremiah 32:40
Hebrews 10:26-31
If we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the Truth, the Grace of God that appears to all mankind Titus 2:11-13
The Holy Spirit who John 16:8
Yet, Hebrews 9:26 states, "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself". Writing about the yearly sacrifices made by the OT High Priests, the writer explains that Jesus' Sacrifice was different even in this respect: Jesus came only once to deal with the sin problem forever. If His Sacrifice applied to the OT faithful living in those days as well, then Jesus' Crucifixion had to begin from those days, & done often.
This tells us that before Jesus came & gave His Life, all Israel were under the Law & remained condemned for their sin. But God chose to be merciful to them through their obedience in sacrifices. Though those sacrifices looked ahead to Jesus' Perfect Sacrifice, His Sacrifice had no bearing upon them at that time, or else as the Scripture gives, "He must often have suffered since the foundation of the world". And Jesus would have had to "suffer" often, as the OT Covenants were in force & the New Covenant in His Blood had not occurred. But He didn't suffer & die for them at that time, but only after "he appeared (now once in the end of the world) to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself"; only at Calvary, the price of sin (for those of the OT & latter days) applied. Even if the Gospel preached unto them was of Jesus' Sacrifice, it would have not been understood by them & not even applied to them - until Jesus finally came & secured those OT saints & us post-Cross, to His praise.
Thanks again David0921 for these Scriptures, & of course, I don't share in your understanding of them. I will look at the main one: Hebrews 4:1-3.
You understand this passage as referring to the Gospel that was delivered to us, that it was the same as they (OT Israel) also received. However, this passage is not talking about the Gospel of Salvation through a Redeemer, but about the Gospel that was ordained before the worlds were framed together - and that is, that God's Plan was for all (Jew & Gentile) to enter into HIS REST. And that is what the Gospel is: for us, we know that perfect rest (from our struggle with sin, of certain judgement for it, of being accepted by God & receiving His Peace) can only be attained through the Cross & looking unto it.
The Gospel that was 'preached as well unto them' contained nothing of Christ's Sacrifice. To force the word 'Gospel' in the OT to mean the same as in the NT, is to misapply the meaning & understanding of Scripture. When the Gospel came to us, we were dead in our sins & in desperate need of redemption & only through Christ's death we could have any hope. When the Gospel came to them, they were already the elect, chosen of God, to remain faithful to God, obeying His Commands, & observing the Sacrifices & associated laws. If they exercised faith & looked only unto God & none other, they would be saved; just as Abraham, Moses, & others were. Which also agrees with the translation of Enoch & Elijah, where these men were counted faithful & for God's Own purpose, were removed from the Earth. But then the question: 'weren't these also sinners, though being the Elect, needing cleansing; how could faith & sacrifice only save them?' Hebrews 9:13,14: these sacrifices only sanctified the people to the "purifying of the flesh"; God instituted this that they may be forgiven & He could dwell in the midst of them & be their constant Guide, providing them that temporary covering for their sin. Onto Page 2.
Colossians 2:4 "And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words."
1 John 2:1 "My little children these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sins we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
Ephesians 2:3 "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."
Exodus 25:13
Hebrews 9:5 "And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercy seat; of which we cannot now speak particularly."
John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep."
1 Peter 2:25 "For ye were as sheep gone astray; but now are returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls."
Isaiah 42:1 "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring judgement to the Gentiles."
John 8:28- 29 "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak those things. And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always these things that please him."
1 Timothy 2:8 "I will therefore that men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting."
Romans 9:5 "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen."
Psalms 45:7 "Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, Thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."
John 17:1 "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through Thine own name those whom thou has given me, that they may be one, as we are."
P4 follows
The verses you stated from Jeremiah are also used by Paul in Hebrews 9:8-12. Paul considers this new covenant to Israel that Jeremiah is taking about is the New Testament that God introduced firstly to Hebrews and then to the rest of the world. But Jews didn't receive Jesus, and consequently God, so their House was left abandoned by God. Until when? Until they repend for crucifying Jesus and ask for Him. When is this going to occur? At the very end. Paul in Rom 11:25-27 says that they will be saved after the fullness of the nations will come in (the salvation).
So who are the elect now? Romans 8:30-32,
"30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of GOD'S ELECT? It is God that justifieth."
Please pay attention to the above verse 33.
God's intention when creating the Hebrew nation through Abraham was not to have a superior race than the rest who will conquer the world. His aim is to create a nation which will preserve the faith to the true God, through which at the proper time the Savior would erect to sacrifice Himself for the salvation of all people. In God's mind was the whole mankind not just a race.
So He established the church on Pentecost
Ephessians 2:14-17,
"14For he is our peace, who hath made both (Jews and gentiles) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
GBU"
The true dignity & honoring of the Scriptures is that they give us a true testimony of Him, & points to His return in Spirit bringing us the words of salvation Hebrews 9:28 Here they are profitable for doctrine 2 Timothy 3:16 confirming to us what the Spirit declare. The Spirit that gave the Scriptures forth, He comes again to bring us into the personal experiential knowledge of them. For only He knows the mind of God 1Cor 2:10,11 thus the Scripture have their rightful place & shine forth their glory for which they were given.
You stated, "the apostles had not been told the Gospel will also be given to the Gentiles, the time had not come. There were another 3.5 years after Jesus's ministry before the apostles were told the gospel of Christ will be given to the Greeks/Gentiles.
I agree with Gigi, The Apostles were told to go out to preach the gospel to the whole world and I believe the old economy "if that's the correct term to use" ended at the crucifixion when the veil was rent from top to bottom.
The timing of the beginning and ending of what God ordained in the old and in the new covenant was totally of God, "Not according to man's response to it"
The OT scripture said salvation would go out to the Gentiles by the seed which shall come. some expected it in the New Testament as seen in Luke 2:30-32. For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, which thou hast prepared before the face of all people. A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Also.
Jesus said in John 2:19-22 he would tare the temple down and build it again in 3 days.
That was the end of temporary temple that only served as a shadow of what was to come. Hebrews 9:6-11.
When he rose from the grave, he went to the disciples and see here what he said in Luke 24:42-48.
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
And ye are witnesses of these things!
Concerning the veil being rent from top to bottom.
Here is what was accomplished at the death and resurrection of our Lord.
Here in Hebrews 6:17-20 we see Jesus as our "forerunner" and High Priest.
We have been once and for all cleansed and can now enter therein with a clear conscience. See Hebrews 9:8-26.
Also.
Hebrews 10:8-22.
The veil being rent signifies the end of the old covenant and the resurrection ushered in the new covenant.
The commission came right afterwards. Luke 24:42-49. and Matthew 28:19-20.
God bless.
Hi Friend
There's two stages that we may obtain too in the work of regeneration, 1st to the state Adam was before the fall, then as we continue steadfast, faithful & confident unto the end, in exercising the Grace that brings salvation, He brings us into the 2nd state of being in Christ who never sin, although He was tempted. This show us that being tempted is not a sin, only in our submission to it.
I'm presently in this 1st stage & have fallen,
Sanctification is a progress work, & as we continue to exercise Grace appearance in our hearts. Hebrews 9:28 Rom 10:10 the wording of Scripture is "unto salvation", denoting this on going work. Philippians 2:12 There is no instant salvation! There will be encounter with the Lord, where His Spirit deals mighty within us, tearing down the strongholds of thoughts & imaginations that keeps us in bondage & separated from Him, this a part of the ongoing work of salvation.
When I said 'works based', I didn't mean that they would be saved by their law-keeping, etc., for nothing they or we could ever do, would secure redemption. They only did what was required of them by God (which was based solely on works yet should have caused them to cleave to God trusting in Him alone). Were they saved by their works? If they were, then there was no need for Jesus' Coming. But those works (obedience, sacrifice) brought them into a standing before God, where the Blood of Christ could retrospectively be applied to them; these who had no knowledge of such a Redeemer, but only knowing sin & cast upon God's Mercies for the covering of that sin until their redemption (salvation). Hebrews 9:15, 'the called only received the promise'.
I don't know whether that explains it better, but your quote, "Salvation is by Grace alone" seems to not take into account what takes place before salvation is granted: how a person's life is directed, how & when the Gospel comes to him, or the drawing in by the Father ( John 6:44). For us, we don't consider this as Works, only when we try to add to or replace the Grace of God. Jews weren't adding to their future salvation; they only did what was required of them; and God knowing their hearts would apply the True Sacrifice. See Romans 4:1-5: righteousness that was imputed to Abraham. Why? Because he believed God, having hope, trusting His Word, without calling upon his works. Likewise, to all OT Israel who placed their trust & hope in God were marked for salvation, without works - unlike those who disobeyed or trusted in their works.