I have a rule myself to let the HOLY Spirit teach us as we read. 1 John 2:27, John 14:26,
Sometimes we have to work at "unlearning" what someone tells us the Bible says. GOD's WORD is a "living Word" it teaches, corrects, edifies._.. 2 Timothy 3:16, & gives us wisdom. James 1:5,
Genesis 34, is the account. Notice : Genesis 34:2, they were Hivite
Thank you "GiGi" for pointing out her approximate age through scriptural knowledge. Genesis 30:19-31, Genesis 31:38-41,
Genesis 33:13-17, it says after they met Esau, they built a house & booths for cattle it doesn't say exactly how long they were there. It appears they may have left when Joseph was about 6 yrs. old because Genesis 31:41, But it was before Joseph was 17, Dinah seems to be older sister, they then pitched a tent._ Genesis 33:18-20 The only accounts of age we're given is Joseph was born & Genesis 30:25, Genesis 37:1-2, yet Joseph went to find his brethren in (Shechem) so was this timing, a historical account putting both situations about the same time? Genesis 37:11-14, because later Israel/Jacob tells Joseph about his mother's death & burial, that happened on Journey Genesis 35:1, Genesis 35:15-20, Genesis 35:27-29, Genesis 48:1-7, Genesis 45:25, Genesis 46:6,
The brothers suggested making a covenant agreement with Hamor as a deception to avenge the honor of Dinah and return her to their family. Jacob, Hamor, Shechem, and the brothers agreed that Shechem could marry Dinah if all of the men were circumcised. (The brothers knew that the men of the town would be too sore to fight, therefore, sitting ducks for them to kill them and remove the men from that town, thus preventing any from marrying into their family)
Jacob agreed to the covenant, not knowing the plan of his sons. He was willing to compromise what he knew was
God's will to be expedient and protect is family from harm. If his sons hadn't done what they did, Abraham's seed would have mingled with the Canaanites, who were far, far from God. Although it seems terrible that the brothers would slaughter all of the men for the sin of Shechem, it accomplished God's purpose of keeping His chosen race of people from intermingling the seed of promise outside of the Hebrew lineage. Down the road, Dinah's daughter or granddaughters would become wives to her brother's children and grandchildren. God did not want her to marry and have children with a Canaanite and his will was accomplished in this account.
Jacob was bothered by what happened. He was afraid of having problems with those around him. Since their family had just arrived and it had been 20 years since he was in this area, he was not known. His parents maybe didn't even know he was back in the area yet. He felt vulnerable and forgot to trust in the God he was just getting to know. He doubted God's faithfulness to him and is family. He took his eyes off of the covenant and promises God had spoken to his grandfather, father, and himself (at least 3 times). Jacob still had a long ways to go to have faith like Abraham.
This is an account of a young girl, Dinah, Jacob's daughter with Leah. This is early in their arrival to Canaan, having just arrived from Haran after 20 years there. Dinah was not 20 years old. She was the 7th child of Leah. Leah bore thre son (probably in a span of 6-9 years, then she didn't conceive for some time. Then she bore 3 more sons (probably a span of 6-9 years) Then she bore Dinah. Dinah was young, probably 12 years old or less. Se was a child, not able to give consent. She was grabbed by Shechem, drug away from the field, and raped by him. Dinah was a young girl, not old enough to be given in marriage, most likely. She most likely looked to have friends from the girls of the town, since she was the only sister of 11 brothers, all older than she was. She was not at fault.
Shechem could have chosen a wife from among the people of his town, but he preyed on the new girl in town, perhaps watching her for a time before advancing on her and overpowering her. Notice the text says she had to be taken from his home by his brothers. She was kidnapped and held against her will. Shechem thought that he "loved" her after he had raped her. It may have been a custom in is culture that girls can be stolen from their families, sexually violated, and then kept as a young wife as she grew into womanhood. It is this way in Islamic communities still. Maybe Shechem did not know her family was close by, thus making her "free" for the taking. But, Jacob did find out and Shechem begged his father, Hamor, to talk with Jacob and convince him to give Dinah to be his wife. So they met, and Dinah's brothers overheard the conversation. Upon discovering that Shechem raped their sister, they were greatly angered, and rightly so. Not only was Dinah a young girl who was raped, but they knew that she was to marry kin, not Canaanites. Jacob knew this, too, but he wanted to maintain peaceful relations with the people of Shechem, so he most likely would have compromised to make things.
This story is one that made me realize Gods people weren't so holy. They lie and then slaughter an entire city of men, then enslave women and children. And even Jacob is disgusted by it. They are not punished for their actions, and I see comments where people justify them killing. It never says he raped Dinah, only defiled, which she would be defiled period by having premarital sex in their eyes or by sleeping with an uncircumcised man. And none of us are supposed to kill. Ever.
Verse 1~Dinah put herself in the company of the daughters of the land. They proved to be bad association and Dinah was put in a dangerous situation by associating with them.
It doesn't say her age or whether or not she consented. It seems more like he "swept her off her feet" and didn't use force. That's not meant to be a free pass but verse 19 does say "he was more honorable than all the house of his father".
Agreed, the final outcome was not what Jacob wanted but still it seems a Divine retribution.
I agree with you C, Jacob himself is a product of GODs loving kindness, so knew the importance of forgiveness and doing things right, that is why he told Hamor and his father what to do to make things right. GOD has not killed us for the numerous sins we have committed, HE always gives us the opportunity to do things right. vengeance is the not a solution when one is offended. cos is the LORDs.
Read Genesis 34:25-31 it tells a bit more of Simeon and how he joined forces with is younger brother Levi in the massacre of Shecemites and the reason why it was done.
What right did this Hivite "prince" have to take whatever damsel pleased him, and lay with her and defile her? What right does any young man have to just take what he wants to consume upon his lusts? Are we supposed to feel sorry for him because he was "in love" and spoke kindly to her after he completely disrespected her and used her? What does God's law say about rape? Its judged like murder!
Vs13 "And the sons of Jacob answered.... deceitfully." Jacob's stated opinion of their actions (Vs30) showed that they had acted against Jacob's character, and that he did not approve of what they had done. They were in rebellion to their Patriarch. And they made a mockery of God's Covenant of Circumcision. Forgiveness was not unheard of even in those days. These later sold Joseph into slavery.
C; the "relevance" is that we should know and conduct ourselves as those who cannot mingle with the world of the ungodly. If Dinah wouldn't have gone out to see the girls of the town; she would not have put herself in a vulnerable position. The men of this world think, if they fall in love, they can fornicate with whomsoever they wish. God saw all of it, and put the people in fear of Jacob's sons.
In reading the comments I am disturbed at the lack of relevance to these verses, and insensitivity to the spirit of the scriptures. Some seemed to have missed these facts: Shechem loved Dinah and was willing to make things right. Shechem, Hamor, and their men were circumcised. Jacob's own commentary on their actions was "Ye have troubled me to make me stink among the inhabitants of the land"
We have no right to blame Dinah. She was honorable in going out to see the other girls her age; apparently, she had only brothers. No one on this thread is condemning any of the men for speaking with the men of the town.
Two things I see in this chapter: One; Dinah should not have gone out to see the daughters of the land; and Two; young men that fornicate with whomsoever they think they fall in love with, defile the girls, and themselves, and bring ruin upon the whole community. What business has the holy going out to "see" the women of the world? Prudence and discretion would have saved the whole place from sin.
Love had nothing to do with it in Shechem's case. Lust yes. The bible definition of love. What followed was a catastrophe. There is no excuse for his ignorance.I guess it was a high price to pay for insulting Israel. I side with the winner. God
Dinah got into very bad association by choosing to surround herself with the wrong people. Bad associations will always result in reaping bad consequences.
Doesn't the Bible Uphold treachery in the sons as a kind of honor? Who was the real Dinah? As with much of the Bible, we are given a 'sanitized' version of events. Can we ever know the real story, Sans Faith.
Donna George, I concur with you completely that Dinah was to be blame for all the evil her family brought on the people of Shechem. I will go on to boldly say that she was primarily to be blamed because she set fire of evil by her action that burned out out of control. However, God did prohibit the seed of his covenant people the seed of Abraham from intermarrying with foreigners Deut.7:3. God bless us all and in the understanding of his Word. Praise God! Amen!
Faderogba, you are absolutely correct God is the only true Judge of all. However, in many cases God use man to carry out his judgments in this particular story Simeon and Levi Pr.16:4. It was still God 's will because he didn 't want his covenant people the seed of Abraham intermarrying with foreigners see hundreds of years later in the law of God given to moses for the Hebrew people Deut. 7:3 "neither shalt thou make marriage with them, thou daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thou son.
Lorenzo, nice comments on this story. But my sympathy is with our Almighty God rather than with Shechem or anyone else in this story. Though he did love Dinah very much he should have learn of the customs of her people. Diana 's is at fault as well because she knew the rules of her father and even more importantly the commandments of God. God always commanded the Hebrew people not to intermarriage with foreigns because this was the start of his building a nation to make his name known to the whole world. Ez. 39:7,over 400 hundred years later after God delivered the Hebrews from Egypt he gave Moses his laws for all the Hebrew people saying in Duet. 7:3 "Neither shalt thou make marriages with them -the people of the land-thou daughters thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thou son. God bless us all and in the understanding of his Word. Glory be to God in the highest through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Amen!
OK, I can 't let it go. I cannot but feel sorry for Shechem. OK, maybe he was a little heavy handed in his "courtship " of Dinah, but I think that may have been the custom of the day. The record is silent as to her desires regarding her continued association with him. BUT, he had it bad. He LOVED the lady. He and his father enter into negotiations to make the union acceptable to all. Ultimately, they even agree to have their whole clan undergo circumcision a not so trivial procedure as an adult . That this offer was really a ploy to incapacitate the men of the clan is especially a dirty trick. So poor Shechem, notwithstanding his impatient approach to Dina, having fallen in love, even submits to circumcision the first of his people . There is little to challenge his good faith, nor his people 's, in submitting to this in order to become "one people " with Jacob 's band. As they say, all that they have will be ours, and all the we have will be theirs, and their women can be our wives and vice versa. Good enlightened self-interest and even good for Darwinian increasing the gene pool, not to mention even good for demonstrating the brotherhood of man. But the sons of Jacob would have it otherwise, more interested in avenging their "honor " than in the welfare of anyone, even of their own band.
Judgement should be left for our Heavenly Father. Nobody should slay anyone because our life belong to God and he is the only one who is allow to take life not us.
Genesis 9:22, honestly ask yourself would you go tell others? Or cover? Who showed their father honor? Genesis 9:23
Noah, "knew what his younger son had done to him." Genesis 9:24, it wasn't that he just saw.
There's additional information, to help readers understand, Genesis 9:18, Genesis 9:22, Genesis 9:25, Genesis 10:15, note Canaan, 1st recorded rape of a girl Genesis 33:18, Genesis 34:1-2, & Sodom & Gomorrah, Genesis 10:19, Genesis 13:13, Genesis 18:20, Genesis 18, Gen. 19,
Isaiah 3:9, Jeremiah 23:14, Ezekiel 16:49, Jude 1:7, it appears to point to a root of evil started with that person.
Hopefully this is helpful
Sometimes we have to work at "unlearning" what someone tells us the Bible says. GOD's WORD is a "living Word" it teaches, corrects, edifies._.. 2 Timothy 3:16, & gives us wisdom. James 1:5,
Genesis 34, is the account. Notice : Genesis 34:2, they were Hivite
Exodus 23:28, Exodus 34:11, Exodus 33:2, Genesis 10:15-19, Joshua 9,
Hopefully this is all helpful.
Thank you "GiGi" for pointing out her approximate age through scriptural knowledge. Genesis 30:19-31, Genesis 31:38-41,
Genesis 33:13-17, it says after they met Esau, they built a house & booths for cattle it doesn't say exactly how long they were there. It appears they may have left when Joseph was about 6 yrs. old because Genesis 31:41, But it was before Joseph was 17, Dinah seems to be older sister, they then pitched a tent._ Genesis 33:18-20 The only accounts of age we're given is Joseph was born & Genesis 30:25, Genesis 37:1-2, yet Joseph went to find his brethren in (Shechem) so was this timing, a historical account putting both situations about the same time? Genesis 37:11-14, because later Israel/Jacob tells Joseph about his mother's death & burial, that happened on Journey Genesis 35:1, Genesis 35:15-20, Genesis 35:27-29, Genesis 48:1-7, Genesis 45:25, Genesis 46:6,
Jacob agreed to the covenant, not knowing the plan of his sons. He was willing to compromise what he knew was
God's will to be expedient and protect is family from harm. If his sons hadn't done what they did, Abraham's seed would have mingled with the Canaanites, who were far, far from God. Although it seems terrible that the brothers would slaughter all of the men for the sin of Shechem, it accomplished God's purpose of keeping His chosen race of people from intermingling the seed of promise outside of the Hebrew lineage. Down the road, Dinah's daughter or granddaughters would become wives to her brother's children and grandchildren. God did not want her to marry and have children with a Canaanite and his will was accomplished in this account.
Jacob was bothered by what happened. He was afraid of having problems with those around him. Since their family had just arrived and it had been 20 years since he was in this area, he was not known. His parents maybe didn't even know he was back in the area yet. He felt vulnerable and forgot to trust in the God he was just getting to know. He doubted God's faithfulness to him and is family. He took his eyes off of the covenant and promises God had spoken to his grandfather, father, and himself (at least 3 times). Jacob still had a long ways to go to have faith like Abraham.
Shechem could have chosen a wife from among the people of his town, but he preyed on the new girl in town, perhaps watching her for a time before advancing on her and overpowering her. Notice the text says she had to be taken from his home by his brothers. She was kidnapped and held against her will. Shechem thought that he "loved" her after he had raped her. It may have been a custom in is culture that girls can be stolen from their families, sexually violated, and then kept as a young wife as she grew into womanhood. It is this way in Islamic communities still. Maybe Shechem did not know her family was close by, thus making her "free" for the taking. But, Jacob did find out and Shechem begged his father, Hamor, to talk with Jacob and convince him to give Dinah to be his wife. So they met, and Dinah's brothers overheard the conversation. Upon discovering that Shechem raped their sister, they were greatly angered, and rightly so. Not only was Dinah a young girl who was raped, but they knew that she was to marry kin, not Canaanites. Jacob knew this, too, but he wanted to maintain peaceful relations with the people of Shechem, so he most likely would have compromised to make things.
Gen49:5-7Jacob cruses Simeon
Agreed, the final outcome was not what Jacob wanted but still it seems a Divine retribution.