First I must say that questions as such"why God kills or asks others to kill, despite "do not kill",are made by many atheists that were members of the SDA,but now turned demonic atheists.
They well know the letter of the Bible and now use it in their demonic posts to deny GOD and to contradict His Word.In fact they are killers,killers of souls.
They know that when GOD said to the people of Israel through Moses," do not kill", it had already passed around 2500 years(two days and half of GOD's work),and the commandment was exclusively for the people of GOD,Israel. It was given in the OT, not in the NT,very different of the OT. See, GOD was creating a new environment for His seed, descendants of Abraham, when He brought His people out of Egypt. GOD separated His people Israel from the midst of the Gentilic peoples, from the midst of the idolaters and murderers peoples, actually He divided waters from the waters- Genesis 1:6-10-and then appeared the dry land-Israel.
Now see,around 2500 years before GOD's commandment Cain had killed Abel.Who commanded Cain do it?It was not GOD,so who? It was the father of Cain,the Devil,a former Cherub,former ruler of Eden,also father of the current atheists and false Christianity and others adherents of devilish religions.
In the other hand,after GOD brought Israel from Egypt and placed the people in the Promised Land,there GOD established the Law and rules to discipline the people and free them from all the SATANIC influence they carried with them from the Gentile, specially from the Egyptians and their satanic idolatries.Desobedience, i.e. witchcraft,it would be punished in the Promised Land,even to the death penalty(Compare: Luke 12:4 and Deuteronomy 32:39.By the way,GOD IS GOD).
This battle started when the Cherub which GOD have placed as a ruler of Eden(now called SON OF PERDITION and MAN OF SIN,the Devil and Satan)planned to USURP GOD's creation and to create a specific world for he himself- Matthew 4:8-9.
English is not my native language,for me it's harder to speak of the theories of man-made than to speak of the Word of GOD.
To those that say age of the Earth is around 14 billions of years,we can counter argue that the number is not accurate,although to the common man it could be, the gods of this world(the common men made of the dust of the earth- Genesis 2:19)have blinded the minds of them which believe in them,believe in them which trie to plagiarize the science of the Most High and Almighty GOD, but the best of their conceptions in this field is nothing more than foolish conjectures and deceitful theories given by man-made scientific apparatus.
What we belivers must say to the atheists is that the age of the Earth is much much more than that billions of years age they claim.This assert lefts them very astonished,of course.What we must say to the atheists in the reply, is that the age pointed in their posts is the maximum limit that man-made scientific apparatus or measuring equipments of the scientists is ABLE to measure.So it has nothing to do with the age of the Earth.We could say unto them or would say that for measuring the age of the Earth the men need to invent a scientific apparatus more qualified and ABLE to measure beyond or over of what has been measured by the scientists to this date, then the false current theory of the Earth's age will be changed for a new theory.I'm sure they will never get do it first because the Universe is a GOD's secret,second because they not know that the Devil's world in which they are living will END now,even now,from now on,it has been pre-determined to start in this current decade,it with great and traggic destruction as was previously prophesied-confirmed by Revelation 11:18-,whereof GOD has given assurance unto all men in His former secret book of Apocalypse-Re.1:1-,sealed with seven seals,which were revealed to JESUS and were broken and opened by Him around 65 years after His ascension.
The Bible is not any book on our natural world. Dinosaurs ammonites all have their place. God is a Spirit and God's kingdom has its own rules as there are rules for grammar. Any one who would move in a polite society and wants to be looked up speaks as a cultured well educated person.So don'be drawn by atheists whose little knowledge is from Science that is incomplete. After Galileo they want only proof so they shall keep on driving a square block in round hole. Faith with works is simply trust in our Savior Lord and work as he would want us.
If one has the Son he has the Father as well. So understand the word of God by the indwelling Spirit and it is the only way.
God (including Jesus) created everything, including what we call dinosaurs. These facts are not in conflict. If you believe they are and have a question about it maybe others can help.
Often atheists who practice the sciences are motivated to make claims of an old billions of years old earth, which is based on inaccurate carbon dating. As an example there have been relatively recent events, such as the Mt. Saint Helens eruption, that when similar science has been applied it dates the lava to being over a million years old, but we know it was from 1980.
It is very important to know who comes first: Michael or JESUS?
Daniel 12:2
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Paul prophesied: 1Tess.4:15-17
15 We say unto you by the Word of the Lord,that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven(from the 3rd heaven,we the believers are still in the 2nd heaven-Eph.1:3-8 combined with Phil.3:20-21)with a shout,with the voice of the archangel,and with the trump of GOD:and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds( Isaiah 60:8, and 1Corinthians 15:51 combined with Phi.3:20-21 and Re.5:8-14), to meet the Lord in the air(in the 3rd heavenly environment-3rd heaven-far above the second heaven- Luke 20:35-36 combined with Mat.25:6): and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (Where?-Re.11:15-18 and 5:10, and Mat.5:5).
Daniel 12:3
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. (The stars were made by our GOD since the beginning- Genesis 1:16-made with own light given by GOD for them to shine in heaven(Eph.1:3-8), but the Greater Light is JESUS, and the Lesser Light is the person of the Holy Spirit- John 15:26 and 16:12-15. Take a look).
23 I beheld the earth(Israel), and, lo, it was without form, and void( Genesis 1:2); and the heavens(Eph.1:3-8 combined with Genesis 1:1), and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains...they trembled, the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld,and, lo,there was no man,and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
The verse 24 is an event to happen in near future, it is linked with Revelation 6:14-17, and it is linked to the opening of the sixth seal.
Get ready, there will be a WAR against the body of the red Dragon, a religious and satanic MONSTER having 7 heads, 10 horns and a terribel TAIL as was prophesied by Daniel:
Daniel 2:44-45
44 And in the days of these kings shall the GOD of heaven set up a kingdom( Revelation 11:15-18), which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great GOD hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
Israel, as 'Dry Bones'- Ezekiel 37-Now,Dry land, but before was the clay( Isaiah 64:8), exactly when the Most High make a separation between water and water- Genesis 1:9-, that is, when the Most High separated the Hebrews from the Egypcians through Moses, and He created a celestial environment and called it of expanse, called heaven (that is the Dispensation of the Old Testament used in the Promised Land), then the Most High, the Lord, the I AM, separated the water (the Egypcians) that was BELOW of the expanse He created(an heavenly environment), and the water that that was ABOVE the expanse (the people of Israel- GOD's people), and it was evening, and it was morning, the second GOD's Day.
Genesis 1:10-19
10And God called the dry land Earth(israel);and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas(Gentile peoples/nations): and God saw that it was good.
11And God said,Let the earth(Israel)bring forth grass,the herb yielding seed,and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind,whose seed is in itself,upon the earth:and it was so.
12And the earth brought forth grass,and herb yielding seed after his kind,and the tree yielding fruit,whose seed was in itself, after his kind:and God saw that it was good.
13And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14And God said,Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day(light)from the night(darkness);and let them be for signs,and for seasons,and for days,and years:
15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven(expanse)to give light upon the earth:and it was so.
16And God MADE two great lights;the Greater Light-JESUS-to rule the day,and the Lesser light to rule the night:he made the stars also.
17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18And to rule over the day and over the night,and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Whenever I read a scripture and I don't understand. I go to each word, look it up on the dictionary (Oxford Dictionary) excluding definitions that were added after the Bible was published. I read the and take it Bible literal as I take Genesis 1:1 until not possible. Knowing with God nothing is impossible. If not literal, then its a figurative truth.
Description of the army numbering 200,000,000 coming out from the abyss is literal. When it says pluck your eye out, its literal. If that's what it takes better to lose an eye than go to hell. But better yet, quit the sin business and keep both them good eyes.
I also pray for wisdom and guidance. and would like to request prayer, Ill pray for you. Also I ask questions to fellow Brothers and Sisters in the LORD at Church. I play the bass guitar in Church, since I was 12. My parents repented when I was 4. Also went to the Churches Christian Academy. M.F.A.C.E. We would have to memorize and read to our supervisor or monitor one chapter of the Bible a day on top our school work. And through Him I won the school first Pastors Achievers Award. But I fell away when I was in my mid 20s but came back to the LORD since 2018. Our Pastor and wife traveled, to Camp meetings and we got to go to a lot of other native reserves (native btw). It was a blessing to meet and to minister with instrument following the flow of the spirit. When the Holy Spirit would move, someone would start speaking in Tongues and some members have the gift of interpretation. To hear God's words from a brother or sister saying "My Children" is a blessing to hear. The pastor of the Church today is my Uncle. Our Pastor who we traveled with now moved to the City and opened a Church. LORD had plans for Him in the City same time God had plans for Pastor Jefferies, my uncle/brother/pastor. Glory be to God, on earth as it is in Heaven. God Bless. Just wanted to share then got into sharing some of my testimony. Hes coming soon, God Bless.
I am sorry, you may have misunderstood me, the discussion was first on God's eternal purpose, and then What came first Light or darkness? Those are deep subjects that make us think I thought I was giving my understanding on those two questions. I know I am not the best at explaining my understanding. You added Lucifer and something happening between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 my understanding of those two things in my mind did not fit in the discussion of your two questions.
When I said my understanding was different, I did not mean to discuss prophecy, I still do not see the word Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 and something happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 like a gap theory is associated with prophecy or the two questions, that is just me. If you could give more of your understanding of the devil some call Lucifer and what you think happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 and your two questions.
Hello brother. Thanks for reply. Firstly let us not be too hasty to give up and say we don't have enough scripture. Let's dig in and get enough I do not desire to get in a hurry with this. For it is God's eternal purpose we are discussing. So I'll let us get into study of prophecy. For no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation ( Paraphrase) best way i have come to interpret scripture by the Holy Spirit is allow scripture to interpret itself with More scripture. Firstly let us look at Genesis 1;1- in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. ( There's the beginning. Now let us turn to 1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil, for the devil SINNETH FROM THE BEGINNING ( there it is)- for this purpose ( purpose) the son of God ( Light) was manifest that he might destroy the works of the devil. Let's meditate upon those. Something happened between Genesis 1: 1 and 1:2 = Satan's works of darkness. Let's meditate,muse,ponder and dwell upon God's word. Not our opinions. For my opinion could very well mislead us All
Greetings my brother beloved. I will not rush in trying to answer all these questions in one sitting. For no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation ( Paraphrase) but scripture is always interpreted by the Holy Spirit through more scriptures. So Genesis 1:1 in the beginning God created The heaven and the earth. -- now thus far what scripture has revealed to me is something went wrong. Because scripture says 1 John 3:8- He that committeth sin is of the devil,FOR THE DEVIL SINNETH (FROM THE BEGINNING) for this purpose The son of God was manifest ( LIGHT) that he might destroy the works of the devil. ( There is our eternal purpose of God) Just think upon that and meditate. We'll rejoice in scripture together brother
As S Spencer said, this is an interesting question, just some last thoughts and whether or not we have enough Scripture to know the complete answer. Scripture is relatively silent about the eternal past, even in the New Testament, where the clearest and fullest light of God's revelation shines. Very few passages reach backward in their scope further than the foundation of the world at the beginning of the ages of our time. God's plan was before the foundation of this earth was laid.
God is light and there is no darkness in Him at all, 1 John 1:5, and we know from Job 38 that the angels and the principalities and powers in heaven were created before Genesis 1. A thought, God created darkness as a place to put the earth outside of the third heaven, the earth was without form and void, this would be empty of all life and covered in surging water of chaos enclosed in total darkness that God's Spirit moved upon and God said let there be light, God called light out of darkness His light moved into the space of darkness.
God called out of this darkness everything there is below the third heaven and the time we live in. My understanding is different on Lucifer in Isaiah 14, and something happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 but that may be for other discussions.
Thank you for these questions, they inspire study.
Yes the Light is indeed the Light of the knowledge of God in the face of Jesus Christ. And upon careful study of the scriptures the darkness was already there, thus it was created because as you pointed out in Isaiah 45:7. I have revelation that that darkness was the Old Lucifer who turned the light God gave to him into that darkness and God knew he would,for it is All according to his eternal purpose. The Light of the knowledge of God excelleth that darkness. Thus something happened between Genesis 1:1-2. For everything was overturned and made a wilderness at the fierce anger of the Lord. I think it's in Jeremiah 4:23- (Paraphrase) got I'm speaking the truth from the heart. " I beheld and lo the earth was void and empty and darkness and it was overthrow by the fierce anger of the Lord. And Isaiah 14 says Lucifer made the world as a wilderness. And he calls the darkness - NIGHT. So it was overthrown in the night by The lord.- Job 34:25. And paraphrasing Jesus Christ. He said are their not 12 hours in a day? And John 9:4 I must work the works of Him that sent me, while it is DAY: THE NIGHT COMETH, WHEN NO MAN CAN WORK JOHN 9:5- while I Am in the world,I am the Light of the world. He will come as a thief in the night. I am persuaded I have the testimony of Jesus which is the Spirit of prophecy. Not that I am anything or anyone. But Jesus Christ And Him loving My poor and needy self. Thank you so much for blessing me with an opportunity to share the deep things of God's unsearchable word. God bless you
That's a very interesting question! "What came first? Light or darkness?"
I believe when God created the heavens and the earth he also created "Time" and from our point of view that started with darkness. (And the evening and the morning were the first day.)
However, there is more to it when considering what they represent spiritually.
We can gather references out of John 1.
I haven't gave much thought or study on this but I believe "spiritually or otherwise" one cannot exist without the other.
Genesis 1:2-4 it reads, "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Here I don't believe darkness and light "being created" is not in these verses but their existence is present. (God spoke and "brought in the Light." and darkness as well already existed. "Again, this is from our point of view and the beginning of time.
However Spiritually, Psalms 139:10-12 may give us a glimpse of what it's like from God's point of view and spiritually.
"Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
Also. Genesis 1:2 can read "And the earth (Became) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
Did Jesus exist before creation? Did the Holy Spirit exist before creation?
Jesus existed in God's plan, Jesus is the beginning of creation Rev. 3:14 and by Him were all things created Col. 1:16 my understanding is Jesus, was the first in God's plan of creation and everything was created by God, in and through the plan and purpose of Jesus. My understanding Jesus did not physically exist until the fullness of time. Ephesians 1:10 He was born of Mary the Son of God. the seed of woman. Genesis 3:15Matthew 1:20
My understanding is the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, not a person, Genesis 1:2. We see all the greetings are from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 1:71 Corinthians 1:32 Corinthians 1:2Galatians 1:3Ephesians 1:2Ephesians 6:23Philippians 1:2Colossians 1:2 and 6 more. The Holy Spirit not being included is a good clue the Holy Spirit was not considered a person by Paul and others at that time.
If so, who were they in relation to the Father?
I believe the above answers this.
How did the Father, the Son, and the Spirit all create all that is, seen or unseen?
My understanding is God the Father created all, Genesis 1:1Genesis 1:31Proverbs 16:4Isaiah 45:18Nehemiah 9:6.
Does Scripture teach that God is only one person who manifests in three forms, but all these manifestations are only one person?
Scripture does not support Modalism I have never considered this and do not know anything about it.
I know you are an author and your vocabulary is greater than mine I will try to respond but to be truthful you are hard to follow. First MOU my understanding is a nonbinding agreement between parties stating their intentions. How can that be a covenant a covenant is a relationship between partners either conditional or unconditional and this covenant is between God the Father and God the Son. Would not the Holy Spirit be a part of this covenant and the will of God that the Son completes? John 6:38 It is God's will not Jesus's like He said in Luke 22:42.
If God is a triune God, would it not be the will of all three with no difference in authority or knowledge? Why the need for a covenant between them since all three are God and all three are equal?
At the beginning of each day, God said what was to be, the spoken word of God, and it was so. Other than speculation how can we say the Son was in agreement? Isaiah 45:18 In Genesis 1:28 would be an unconditional covenant, more of a blessing, God placed man above all that was created on earth and man was given dominion over it. God delegated the rule of man over His creation and no consequences were stated, we see how that turned out.
I agree Jesus did not need to be water baptized for remittance of sin, but He did need the anointing of the Holy Ghost/Spirit to become the Messiah/Christ. The word of God was in Jesus and by the Holy Ghost/Spirit Jesus did the works of His Father therefore Jesus was the tabernacle of God, the image of God for every word Jesus said was not His but the word of God the Father. John 4:34John 5:30John 12:44-45
Philip was the first to bring the gospel to the Samaritans.
" Genesis 1:26 many apply the Trinity to this verse but then we must ignore verse 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. This could also easily be first-person plural." No it is not. "
I, God changeth not"(Mal.3:6) Neither does He give his glory to another. Ge.1: 27 says " So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Ge. 1 refers to the MOU or the everlasting covenant between God the Father and God the Son. Thus the Will of God in v.26 and the Son completes it. "It was so" at the end of each day is as though the Son in agreement.(v.7)
The v.28 God blesses them (man). The covenant is between God and Man. In primary sense it is man say Adam. In secondary sense it is set down by the Holy Ghost in terms of God as Being as well as in terms Christ and the Church.
As Being what is God? He is one. ("Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"-De.6:4) Jesus Christ as the visible image of the invisible God is both glory as well as body in Trinity. The Father Son and Holy Spirit are not considered separate entities but manifestations of the same Being. The Son of man expresses the Word become flesh. Similarly the Word was God. The same Spirit but expressed as separate. Jesus did not require baptism by water but in obedience to the Word and in human likeness he undertook so in all things he was as human as you and me.
When we say that the scriptures must be fulfilled Jesus in his humanity met the criteria. The third office in Trinity serves by bringing events, persons connect according to the divine Will. He therefore brought Evangelist Philip to meet the Ethiopian. The entire scripture is organized on a reconstituted time.
Just me, seems there are fewer discussions lately on this site and Momsage's post suggested discussion. My understanding of discussions is brothers and sisters sharing their understanding of a subject not to belittle or to prove one as being wrong, but by sharing our understanding of a subject that will encourage each other to study in prayer for the truth.
What is faith? We see in Hebrews 11:1,6 We also have Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
We are to have faith but our faith cannot be based on the word of man where we can be deceived and taken out of the way. Our faith must come from the word of God guided by His Spirit and His word is the Holy Scripture, He has given us.
This one subject is based on the word of man, nowhere in Scripture does it tell us we must believe or have faith in a triune God, but the opposite, Deuteronomy 6:4Mark 12:291 Timothy 2:5, and many more. "God made us a living soul" Soul is the Hebrew word nephesh, a living being, any living being, every air-breathing creature is a nephesh, a living being/soul.
Genesis 1:26 many apply the Trinity to this verse but then we must ignore verse 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. This could also easily be first-person plural, like mom says, let us make tacos and then she is the one who makes the tacos. If we lived before 489 AD, before the Trinity doctrine was made the foundational belief of Christianity, and the punishment of heresy, how would we take this verse?
If we walk in the world we will perish, if we walk in the Spirit our faith is in Jesus and our hope is as Jesus was resurrected in His glorified body so we shall also be resurrected in our glorified body into eternal life with Him.
Wondering what others believe about this verse about everything God created being "good"- Some use this to say it's morally ok for them to do drugs like weed, cocaine, mushrooms, meth?
"For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:" 1 Timothy 4:4 KJV. Also Genesis 1:31, Romans 14:14, Acts 11:7-9
At what point do we believe something is no longer God's creation, but a man-made creation, like a drug made in a lab? And how do we balance that with harming the body? "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" 1 Corinthians 6:19 KJV
Hi Chris: I didn't understand your first question so I can't answer it and I disagree that being sinless now make me revert back to a body like in the Garden of Eden but I don't want to go into that in this discussion.
I am sinless. As He instructs me to be because He says in His word for us to be perfect as His Father in heaven is perfect (Math. 5:48) and we are to be holy as He is holy. ( Leviticus 11: 44-45, Leviticus 19:2, Leviticus 20:7, 1 Peter 1: 15-16). People think these verses are just suggestions, or they don't count because they are in the OT. God's word from Genesis 1:1 to Rev. 12:22 all matter and tells us exactly how God wants us to live holy, righteous lives. I, of course, cannot be sinless as Jesus was because I was born into original sin and He wasn't. But when I was washed clean and made new by His divine blood, He rid me of the desire to sin. The devil tries to tempt me, but because I am without the nature to sin; the adamic nature, I have no desire to sin. I am also filled with the Holy Ghost, so I have all the weapons I need to resist him and as long as I keep these weapons, of prayer, reading and the study of His word, and fasting, new and at my side, I will be able to resist the temptation. It's when a christians gets lax or distracted or lazy that they can eventually fall back into sin. But if they want to make heaven they must do their first fruits (asking forgiveness for sin and asking that the desires for son be removed) again. These verses of perfection and holiness are exactly what God expects of us and He wouldn't tell us to be that way if He didn't make a way for us to be like this. I wasn't sinless until I gave my heart, soul and "old man" to Jesus. When I was saved, I not only prayed for my soul to be washed clean through His divine, forgiving blood, I also prayed and told the Lord that I didn't want to sin anymore and asked if He would take the desire to sin from me (the human nature I inherited from Adam.)
I'm a disciple of JESUS, who said from He himself " I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning( Genesis 1:1) and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the ALMIGHTY.
My Lord JESUS in His pray to the Father, said: John 17:5-6
5 Now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the WORLD was.
6 I have manifested thy NAME unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy Word.
Chris, what GOD's NAME was manifested by my Lord JESUS?
I don't believe anyone see the Trinity in 1 John 1:1 by itself but I do believe it's seen in 1 John 1:1-7 and John 1:10 without having to add or take away from Scripture.
And, 1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life" was dealt with between you and others.
However the first part of that verse "That which was from the beginning". Is easily seen that this portion of scripture takes a person (Jesus) and associates him with a beginning as mentioned in John 1:1-2 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD.
Jn 1:10. He was in the world, AND THE WORLD WAS MADE BY HIM, and the world knew him not.
it's clear Jesus existed before his earthly ministry.
Are you going into your studies without a predetermined position?
Ronald with all due respect your passion and study in this seems to be to exterminate the view rather search to see if it is any truth to it.
I believe in what John 1:1 says that line up with scriptures from Genesis 1:1 on through Revelation.
Thanks Brother and I pray that God bless you in your journey as you continue in your studies.
Thank you for your reply, yes, Genesis 3:15 tells us He will come by the seed of a woman, and that is exactly what we see happen in Mary. My understanding of John 1:1-5 is John's prolog at the start of his gospel like Genesis 1:1 is a prolog to the rest of Genesis 1. John starts with, In the beginning.
I see this beginning as the coming of the Messiah/Christ the beginning of Jesus's ministry because in John 1:6, John goes to John the Baptist as the witness of the one who was to come, the Light that darkness did not comprehend. This is the start of Jesus's ministry when Jesus was anointed with the Holy Ghost/Spirit and God made Him the Messiah/Christ, Acts 2:36.
Jesus was sent for the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 15:24, His role or ministry was to fulfill the law and the prophets in confirming the new covenant by His death and resurrection from the dead to pay the price for our sins. Daniel 9:27 is also about the 3.5 years of Jesus ministry but that is another topic. Jesus was the Messiah that was prophesied to come in Daniel. As I have discussed with Chris my understanding is Jesus was the beginning of the plan of God and like John 1:10 it is through Him not by Him.
Jesus, God' Son is first in God's plan of creation, and everything was created in and through Him and Jesus was begotten in the fullness of time. Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Colossians 1:20. I know you may also not agree with that but that is how I understand, it is God the Father who is the creator.
The light was the word of God that dwelt in Jesus, the glory of the Father that dwelt in Jesus, 2 Corinthians 4:6.
What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD,the Word is from everlasting to everlasting,the Word is GOD,self-executing.The Word -GOD-was made flesh around 2000 years ago or two GODs' Days ago,indeed it still was the fourth GOD's Day- Genesis 1:16-and He as the Greater Light said:My Father worketh hitherto,and I work-Jo. 5:17.Yes,GOD the Father still was working,it was still the fourth Day of His works.
The Word is a lamp unto my feet,and a light unto my path- Psalm 119:105 combined with 1Jo.1:5:This is the message which we have heard of Him,and declare unto you,that GOD is Light,and in Him is no darkness at all. And the Word made flesh said:I am come a Light into the world,that whosoever believes on me should not abide in darkness-Jo.12:46.JESUS also said to the Father in His prayer:Jo.17:7-8- ->7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou has given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gave me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee,and they have believed that thou did send me.
The testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy.By the way, Isaiah prophesied:For unto us a child is born,unto us a Son is given:and the government is upon His shoulder:His name shall be called Wonderful,Counsellor,The mighty God,The everlasting Father,The Prince of Peace.
JESUS said to the Father:All mine are thine,and thine are mine;and I am glorified in them.
And now come I to thee;and these things I speak in the world,that THEY(THE TRUE BELIEVERS) might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.Jo.17:10-13.
Jo.1:18-No man hath seen GOD at any time,the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father,He has declared Him.
Jo.14:8-9:-->8 Philip saith unto JESUS:Lord,show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.9 JESUS saith unto Philip:Have I been so long time with you, and yet has thou not known me,Philip?he that has seen me has seen the Father;and how say you then,Show us the Father?
I hope even though you may not agree, you can make sense of my replies. I would like to tell you I do not Have anything in common with JW or their translation of the bible.
My understanding we are mortal beings and no part of us is immortal. I see the spirit as our breath/life that goes back to God when we die, Ecclesiastes 11:7 and Scripture tell us the soul can die, Ezekiel 18:4Matthew 10:28 Hebrew 9:27. Like Paul said of David being dead in the tomb and has not ascended to heaven, Acts 2:34. We do not put on immortality until the resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:53-54.
Bear with me my Greek is kindergarten level, arche the beginning or origin I see it maybe a little differently I understand God the Father as the Creator as in Genesis 1:1 and Psalm 19:1. I believe in the plan of God Jesus was first and as in Romans 4:17 Jesus was in Gods eyes in the womb of Mary and then the angels and all the counsel of heaven then the earth and all that was to be.
In Genesis 17:5 when God renamed Abram to Abraham God said, "for the father of many nations I have made thee". It was not Abraham will become a father of many nations it was already done in the plan of God.
"Firstborn of every creature and the firstborn from the dead" Jesus was the firstborn, Jesus being the first in God's plan would make Him the firstborn, and Jesus is the firstborn of the dead. There were people brought back from the dead like in 2 Kings 13:21 the guy was thrown into Elisha's tomb and when his body touched Elisha's bone he came back to life and stood up, and we see the ones in the New Testament. No one who died before Jesus who came back to life died again Jesus was the first to overcome death.
Jesus is the firstborn of the dead because He had no sin and death could not hold Him and when Jesus rose He rose in a glorified body never to die again, Revelation 1:18. That is what we look forward to when we are resurrected.
God the Father granted Christ all authority on heaven and earth which sets forth the ultimate example of how God worked to reward the perfect obedience of Christ. It also goes against Satan's offer to worship him to have such authority. ( Matthew 28:18; Matthew 4:9).
One may question how Christ; who Himself brought all of creation into existence would have such a destiny. ( Colossians 1:16-20). In that situation; one may say that He was the Person to do the work that the Father had planned; and His agent as it were was the Spirit of God (hovering over the waters as it states in Genesis 1:2).
We realize in this that no servant is greater than his master. ( John 15:20). We all are nothing without Him; yet He will likewise exalt the humble with positions to rule and reign with Christ in the Millennium. In some sense we can say that Christ emptied Himself so that He could be our High Priest suffering in all ways but without sin. ( Heb. 4:15). As the second Adam He was able to keep from the temptations of the devil to fall unlike Adam; as well as fulfilling the law perfectly which no man could do. ( 1 Cor. 15:45-47).
It is hard to get our mind around these facts; that He who created all things would start from conception as a helpless babe and end as a sheep to the slaughter ( Isaiah 53:7); the Lamb of God which will forever be ascribed to His Name. Of course all of us who are saved are adopted sons; ( Ephesians 1:5) part of the eternal lineage of the rightous (as contrasted with the earth dwellers in Revelation 11:10).
Christ is returning as conquering king. He alone trods the winepress ( Isaiah 63:3). He alone brings forth the TRUE one world government of peace and rules in righteousness; impartially judging as many verses in Isaiah testify. Some verses can be taken symbolically but to not take Revelation 19 literally or somehow think Christ already returned in some mystical way is heretical thinking (see 2 Tim. 2:18)
Thank you, you are correct I believe in one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ as most of the greetings in the epistles Ephesians 6:231 Thessalonians 1:1 and more, and nowhere is this doctrine taught in the New Testament that we must believe for salvation.
It is like Matthew 28:19 the baptizing in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit but nowhere do we see it in the New Testament all were baptized in the name of Jesus and only in the name of Jesus are we saved. My study of 1 John 5:7 is that it was added from the Latin Vulgate and was not in the original text, but that can be debated.
I understand I am in the minority and have discussed this before. We can find Scripture to fit a doctrine, but can we find Scripture where the doctrine was taught? I have not found where the Trinity doctrine is taught. Like Genesis 1:26 there are many beings in heaven and the word us does not say God was speaking to Jesus, that is an assumption.
Thank you again for discussing this in a loving and respectful manor, this subject is deep and as long as we have love for each other, and truth is what we are in search of.
Thank you RLW for your input. It sounds like from your response you don't believe that God is triune like 1 John 5:7 says. The 3 verses about Godhead are not the only part of the Bible that says God is plural. Genesis 1:26 for example: "And God said, Let us make man in our image.." Jesus's followers called Jesus "God" and worshipped Him, etc.
Evidence I see so far indicates that most references to God are triune. One, singular, but triune God. Not 3 Gods, one God. As hard as it is to comprehend the Bible gives a distinction within God between the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.
First I must say that questions as such"why God kills or asks others to kill, despite "do not kill",are made by many atheists that were members of the SDA,but now turned demonic atheists.
They well know the letter of the Bible and now use it in their demonic posts to deny GOD and to contradict His Word.In fact they are killers,killers of souls.
They know that when GOD said to the people of Israel through Moses," do not kill", it had already passed around 2500 years(two days and half of GOD's work),and the commandment was exclusively for the people of GOD,Israel. It was given in the OT, not in the NT,very different of the OT. See, GOD was creating a new environment for His seed, descendants of Abraham, when He brought His people out of Egypt. GOD separated His people Israel from the midst of the Gentilic peoples, from the midst of the idolaters and murderers peoples, actually He divided waters from the waters- Genesis 1:6-10-and then appeared the dry land-Israel.
Now see,around 2500 years before GOD's commandment Cain had killed Abel.Who commanded Cain do it?It was not GOD,so who? It was the father of Cain,the Devil,a former Cherub,former ruler of Eden,also father of the current atheists and false Christianity and others adherents of devilish religions.
In the other hand,after GOD brought Israel from Egypt and placed the people in the Promised Land,there GOD established the Law and rules to discipline the people and free them from all the SATANIC influence they carried with them from the Gentile, specially from the Egyptians and their satanic idolatries.Desobedience, i.e. witchcraft,it would be punished in the Promised Land,even to the death penalty(Compare: Luke 12:4 and Deuteronomy 32:39.By the way,GOD IS GOD).
This battle started when the Cherub which GOD have placed as a ruler of Eden(now called SON OF PERDITION and MAN OF SIN,the Devil and Satan)planned to USURP GOD's creation and to create a specific world for he himself- Matthew 4:8-9.
GOD BLESs
English is not my native language,for me it's harder to speak of the theories of man-made than to speak of the Word of GOD.
To those that say age of the Earth is around 14 billions of years,we can counter argue that the number is not accurate,although to the common man it could be, the gods of this world(the common men made of the dust of the earth- Genesis 2:19)have blinded the minds of them which believe in them,believe in them which trie to plagiarize the science of the Most High and Almighty GOD, but the best of their conceptions in this field is nothing more than foolish conjectures and deceitful theories given by man-made scientific apparatus.
What we belivers must say to the atheists is that the age of the Earth is much much more than that billions of years age they claim.This assert lefts them very astonished,of course.What we must say to the atheists in the reply, is that the age pointed in their posts is the maximum limit that man-made scientific apparatus or measuring equipments of the scientists is ABLE to measure.So it has nothing to do with the age of the Earth.We could say unto them or would say that for measuring the age of the Earth the men need to invent a scientific apparatus more qualified and ABLE to measure beyond or over of what has been measured by the scientists to this date, then the false current theory of the Earth's age will be changed for a new theory.I'm sure they will never get do it first because the Universe is a GOD's secret,second because they not know that the Devil's world in which they are living will END now,even now,from now on,it has been pre-determined to start in this current decade,it with great and traggic destruction as was previously prophesied-confirmed by Revelation 11:18-,whereof GOD has given assurance unto all men in His former secret book of Apocalypse-Re.1:1-,sealed with seven seals,which were revealed to JESUS and were broken and opened by Him around 65 years after His ascension.
GOD bless
The Bible is not any book on our natural world. Dinosaurs ammonites all have their place. God is a Spirit and God's kingdom has its own rules as there are rules for grammar. Any one who would move in a polite society and wants to be looked up speaks as a cultured well educated person.So don'be drawn by atheists whose little knowledge is from Science that is incomplete. After Galileo they want only proof so they shall keep on driving a square block in round hole. Faith with works is simply trust in our Savior Lord and work as he would want us.
If one has the Son he has the Father as well. So understand the word of God by the indwelling Spirit and it is the only way.
Often atheists who practice the sciences are motivated to make claims of an old billions of years old earth, which is based on inaccurate carbon dating. As an example there have been relatively recent events, such as the Mt. Saint Helens eruption, that when similar science has been applied it dates the lava to being over a million years old, but we know it was from 1980.
The fossils are real, but I can't get any answers to this question.
Daniel 12:2
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Paul prophesied: 1Tess.4:15-17
15 We say unto you by the Word of the Lord,that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven(from the 3rd heaven,we the believers are still in the 2nd heaven-Eph.1:3-8 combined with Phil.3:20-21)with a shout,with the voice of the archangel,and with the trump of GOD:and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds( Isaiah 60:8, and 1Corinthians 15:51 combined with Phi.3:20-21 and Re.5:8-14), to meet the Lord in the air(in the 3rd heavenly environment-3rd heaven-far above the second heaven- Luke 20:35-36 combined with Mat.25:6): and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (Where?-Re.11:15-18 and 5:10, and Mat.5:5).
Daniel 12:3
3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. (The stars were made by our GOD since the beginning- Genesis 1:16-made with own light given by GOD for them to shine in heaven(Eph.1:3-8), but the Greater Light is JESUS, and the Lesser Light is the person of the Holy Spirit- John 15:26 and 16:12-15. Take a look).
23 I beheld the earth(Israel), and, lo, it was without form, and void( Genesis 1:2); and the heavens(Eph.1:3-8 combined with Genesis 1:1), and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains...they trembled, the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld,and, lo,there was no man,and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
The verse 24 is an event to happen in near future, it is linked with Revelation 6:14-17, and it is linked to the opening of the sixth seal.
Get ready, there will be a WAR against the body of the red Dragon, a religious and satanic MONSTER having 7 heads, 10 horns and a terribel TAIL as was prophesied by Daniel:
Daniel 2:44-45
44 And in the days of these kings shall the GOD of heaven set up a kingdom( Revelation 11:15-18), which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great GOD hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
Get ready
GOD bless
Israel, as 'Dry Bones'- Ezekiel 37-Now,Dry land, but before was the clay( Isaiah 64:8), exactly when the Most High make a separation between water and water- Genesis 1:9-, that is, when the Most High separated the Hebrews from the Egypcians through Moses, and He created a celestial environment and called it of expanse, called heaven (that is the Dispensation of the Old Testament used in the Promised Land), then the Most High, the Lord, the I AM, separated the water (the Egypcians) that was BELOW of the expanse He created(an heavenly environment), and the water that that was ABOVE the expanse (the people of Israel- GOD's people), and it was evening, and it was morning, the second GOD's Day.
Genesis 1:10-19
10And God called the dry land Earth(israel);and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas(Gentile peoples/nations): and God saw that it was good.
11And God said,Let the earth(Israel)bring forth grass,the herb yielding seed,and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind,whose seed is in itself,upon the earth:and it was so.
12And the earth brought forth grass,and herb yielding seed after his kind,and the tree yielding fruit,whose seed was in itself, after his kind:and God saw that it was good.
13And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14And God said,Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day(light)from the night(darkness);and let them be for signs,and for seasons,and for days,and years:
15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven(expanse)to give light upon the earth:and it was so.
16And God MADE two great lights;the Greater Light-JESUS-to rule the day,and the Lesser light to rule the night:he made the stars also.
17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18And to rule over the day and over the night,and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Description of the army numbering 200,000,000 coming out from the abyss is literal. When it says pluck your eye out, its literal. If that's what it takes better to lose an eye than go to hell. But better yet, quit the sin business and keep both them good eyes.
I also pray for wisdom and guidance. and would like to request prayer, Ill pray for you. Also I ask questions to fellow Brothers and Sisters in the LORD at Church. I play the bass guitar in Church, since I was 12. My parents repented when I was 4. Also went to the Churches Christian Academy. M.F.A.C.E. We would have to memorize and read to our supervisor or monitor one chapter of the Bible a day on top our school work. And through Him I won the school first Pastors Achievers Award. But I fell away when I was in my mid 20s but came back to the LORD since 2018. Our Pastor and wife traveled, to Camp meetings and we got to go to a lot of other native reserves (native btw). It was a blessing to meet and to minister with instrument following the flow of the spirit. When the Holy Spirit would move, someone would start speaking in Tongues and some members have the gift of interpretation. To hear God's words from a brother or sister saying "My Children" is a blessing to hear. The pastor of the Church today is my Uncle. Our Pastor who we traveled with now moved to the City and opened a Church. LORD had plans for Him in the City same time God had plans for Pastor Jefferies, my uncle/brother/pastor. Glory be to God, on earth as it is in Heaven. God Bless. Just wanted to share then got into sharing some of my testimony. Hes coming soon, God Bless.
I am sorry, you may have misunderstood me, the discussion was first on God's eternal purpose, and then What came first Light or darkness? Those are deep subjects that make us think I thought I was giving my understanding on those two questions. I know I am not the best at explaining my understanding. You added Lucifer and something happening between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 my understanding of those two things in my mind did not fit in the discussion of your two questions.
When I said my understanding was different, I did not mean to discuss prophecy, I still do not see the word Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 and something happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 like a gap theory is associated with prophecy or the two questions, that is just me. If you could give more of your understanding of the devil some call Lucifer and what you think happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 and your two questions.
Thank you and God bless,
RLW
As S Spencer said, this is an interesting question, just some last thoughts and whether or not we have enough Scripture to know the complete answer. Scripture is relatively silent about the eternal past, even in the New Testament, where the clearest and fullest light of God's revelation shines. Very few passages reach backward in their scope further than the foundation of the world at the beginning of the ages of our time. God's plan was before the foundation of this earth was laid.
God is light and there is no darkness in Him at all, 1 John 1:5, and we know from Job 38 that the angels and the principalities and powers in heaven were created before Genesis 1. A thought, God created darkness as a place to put the earth outside of the third heaven, the earth was without form and void, this would be empty of all life and covered in surging water of chaos enclosed in total darkness that God's Spirit moved upon and God said let there be light, God called light out of darkness His light moved into the space of darkness.
God called out of this darkness everything there is below the third heaven and the time we live in. My understanding is different on Lucifer in Isaiah 14, and something happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 but that may be for other discussions.
Thank you for these questions, they inspire study.
God bless,
RLW
That's a very interesting question! "What came first? Light or darkness?"
I believe when God created the heavens and the earth he also created "Time" and from our point of view that started with darkness. (And the evening and the morning were the first day.)
However, there is more to it when considering what they represent spiritually.
We can gather references out of John 1.
I haven't gave much thought or study on this but I believe "spiritually or otherwise" one cannot exist without the other.
Genesis 1:2-4 it reads, "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Here I don't believe darkness and light "being created" is not in these verses but their existence is present. (God spoke and "brought in the Light." and darkness as well already existed. "Again, this is from our point of view and the beginning of time.
However Spiritually, Psalms 139:10-12 may give us a glimpse of what it's like from God's point of view and spiritually.
"Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.
Also. Genesis 1:2 can read "And the earth (Became) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
I'm interested in your full take.
Thanks and God bless.
Part 2 Trinity discussion
Did Jesus exist before creation? Did the Holy Spirit exist before creation?
Jesus existed in God's plan, Jesus is the beginning of creation Rev. 3:14 and by Him were all things created Col. 1:16 my understanding is Jesus, was the first in God's plan of creation and everything was created by God, in and through the plan and purpose of Jesus. My understanding Jesus did not physically exist until the fullness of time. Ephesians 1:10 He was born of Mary the Son of God. the seed of woman. Genesis 3:15 Matthew 1:20
My understanding is the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, not a person, Genesis 1:2. We see all the greetings are from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 1:7 1 Corinthians 1:3 2 Corinthians 1:2 Galatians 1:3 Ephesians 1:2 Ephesians 6:23 Philippians 1:2 Colossians 1:2 and 6 more. The Holy Spirit not being included is a good clue the Holy Spirit was not considered a person by Paul and others at that time.
If so, who were they in relation to the Father?
I believe the above answers this.
How did the Father, the Son, and the Spirit all create all that is, seen or unseen?
My understanding is God the Father created all, Genesis 1:1 Genesis 1:31 Proverbs 16:4 Isaiah 45:18 Nehemiah 9:6.
Does Scripture teach that God is only one person who manifests in three forms, but all these manifestations are only one person?
Scripture does not support Modalism I have never considered this and do not know anything about it.
See part 3.
I know you are an author and your vocabulary is greater than mine I will try to respond but to be truthful you are hard to follow. First MOU my understanding is a nonbinding agreement between parties stating their intentions. How can that be a covenant a covenant is a relationship between partners either conditional or unconditional and this covenant is between God the Father and God the Son. Would not the Holy Spirit be a part of this covenant and the will of God that the Son completes? John 6:38 It is God's will not Jesus's like He said in Luke 22:42.
If God is a triune God, would it not be the will of all three with no difference in authority or knowledge? Why the need for a covenant between them since all three are God and all three are equal?
At the beginning of each day, God said what was to be, the spoken word of God, and it was so. Other than speculation how can we say the Son was in agreement? Isaiah 45:18 In Genesis 1:28 would be an unconditional covenant, more of a blessing, God placed man above all that was created on earth and man was given dominion over it. God delegated the rule of man over His creation and no consequences were stated, we see how that turned out.
I agree Jesus did not need to be water baptized for remittance of sin, but He did need the anointing of the Holy Ghost/Spirit to become the Messiah/Christ. The word of God was in Jesus and by the Holy Ghost/Spirit Jesus did the works of His Father therefore Jesus was the tabernacle of God, the image of God for every word Jesus said was not His but the word of God the Father. John 4:34 John 5:30 John 12:44-45
Philip was the first to bring the gospel to the Samaritans.
I hope you can make sense of this.
God bless,
RLW
" Genesis 1:26 many apply the Trinity to this verse but then we must ignore verse 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. This could also easily be first-person plural." No it is not. "
I, God changeth not"(Mal.3:6) Neither does He give his glory to another. Ge.1: 27 says " So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Ge. 1 refers to the MOU or the everlasting covenant between God the Father and God the Son. Thus the Will of God in v.26 and the Son completes it. "It was so" at the end of each day is as though the Son in agreement.(v.7)
The v.28 God blesses them (man). The covenant is between God and Man. In primary sense it is man say Adam. In secondary sense it is set down by the Holy Ghost in terms of God as Being as well as in terms Christ and the Church.
As Being what is God? He is one. ("Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"-De.6:4) Jesus Christ as the visible image of the invisible God is both glory as well as body in Trinity. The Father Son and Holy Spirit are not considered separate entities but manifestations of the same Being. The Son of man expresses the Word become flesh. Similarly the Word was God. The same Spirit but expressed as separate. Jesus did not require baptism by water but in obedience to the Word and in human likeness he undertook so in all things he was as human as you and me.
When we say that the scriptures must be fulfilled Jesus in his humanity met the criteria. The third office in Trinity serves by bringing events, persons connect according to the divine Will. He therefore brought Evangelist Philip to meet the Ethiopian. The entire scripture is organized on a reconstituted time.
Just me, seems there are fewer discussions lately on this site and Momsage's post suggested discussion. My understanding of discussions is brothers and sisters sharing their understanding of a subject not to belittle or to prove one as being wrong, but by sharing our understanding of a subject that will encourage each other to study in prayer for the truth.
What is faith? We see in Hebrews 11:1,6 We also have Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
We are to have faith but our faith cannot be based on the word of man where we can be deceived and taken out of the way. Our faith must come from the word of God guided by His Spirit and His word is the Holy Scripture, He has given us.
This one subject is based on the word of man, nowhere in Scripture does it tell us we must believe or have faith in a triune God, but the opposite, Deuteronomy 6:4 Mark 12:29 1 Timothy 2:5, and many more. "God made us a living soul" Soul is the Hebrew word nephesh, a living being, any living being, every air-breathing creature is a nephesh, a living being/soul.
Genesis 1:26 many apply the Trinity to this verse but then we must ignore verse 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. This could also easily be first-person plural, like mom says, let us make tacos and then she is the one who makes the tacos. If we lived before 489 AD, before the Trinity doctrine was made the foundational belief of Christianity, and the punishment of heresy, how would we take this verse?
If we walk in the world we will perish, if we walk in the Spirit our faith is in Jesus and our hope is as Jesus was resurrected in His glorified body so we shall also be resurrected in our glorified body into eternal life with Him.
God bless,
RLW
"For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:" 1 Timothy 4:4 KJV. Also Genesis 1:31, Romans 14:14, Acts 11:7-9
At what point do we believe something is no longer God's creation, but a man-made creation, like a drug made in a lab? And how do we balance that with harming the body? "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" 1 Corinthians 6:19 KJV
Thank you.
I am sinless. As He instructs me to be because He says in His word for us to be perfect as His Father in heaven is perfect (Math. 5:48) and we are to be holy as He is holy. ( Leviticus 11: 44-45, Leviticus 19:2, Leviticus 20:7, 1 Peter 1: 15-16). People think these verses are just suggestions, or they don't count because they are in the OT. God's word from Genesis 1:1 to Rev. 12:22 all matter and tells us exactly how God wants us to live holy, righteous lives. I, of course, cannot be sinless as Jesus was because I was born into original sin and He wasn't. But when I was washed clean and made new by His divine blood, He rid me of the desire to sin. The devil tries to tempt me, but because I am without the nature to sin; the adamic nature, I have no desire to sin. I am also filled with the Holy Ghost, so I have all the weapons I need to resist him and as long as I keep these weapons, of prayer, reading and the study of His word, and fasting, new and at my side, I will be able to resist the temptation. It's when a christians gets lax or distracted or lazy that they can eventually fall back into sin. But if they want to make heaven they must do their first fruits (asking forgiveness for sin and asking that the desires for son be removed) again. These verses of perfection and holiness are exactly what God expects of us and He wouldn't tell us to be that way if He didn't make a way for us to be like this. I wasn't sinless until I gave my heart, soul and "old man" to Jesus. When I was saved, I not only prayed for my soul to be washed clean through His divine, forgiving blood, I also prayed and told the Lord that I didn't want to sin anymore and asked if He would take the desire to sin from me (the human nature I inherited from Adam.)
I'm a disciple of JESUS, who said from He himself " I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning( Genesis 1:1) and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the ALMIGHTY.
My Lord JESUS in His pray to the Father, said: John 17:5-6
5 Now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the WORLD was.
6 I have manifested thy NAME unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy Word.
Chris, what GOD's NAME was manifested by my Lord JESUS?
I don't believe anyone see the Trinity in 1 John 1:1 by itself but I do believe it's seen in 1 John 1:1-7 and John 1:10 without having to add or take away from Scripture.
And, 1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life" was dealt with between you and others.
However the first part of that verse "That which was from the beginning". Is easily seen that this portion of scripture takes a person (Jesus) and associates him with a beginning as mentioned in John 1:1-2 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD.
Jn 1:10. He was in the world, AND THE WORLD WAS MADE BY HIM, and the world knew him not.
it's clear Jesus existed before his earthly ministry.
Are you going into your studies without a predetermined position?
Ronald with all due respect your passion and study in this seems to be to exterminate the view rather search to see if it is any truth to it.
I believe in what John 1:1 says that line up with scriptures from Genesis 1:1 on through Revelation.
Thanks Brother and I pray that God bless you in your journey as you continue in your studies.
Thank you for your reply, yes, Genesis 3:15 tells us He will come by the seed of a woman, and that is exactly what we see happen in Mary. My understanding of John 1:1-5 is John's prolog at the start of his gospel like Genesis 1:1 is a prolog to the rest of Genesis 1. John starts with, In the beginning.
I see this beginning as the coming of the Messiah/Christ the beginning of Jesus's ministry because in John 1:6, John goes to John the Baptist as the witness of the one who was to come, the Light that darkness did not comprehend. This is the start of Jesus's ministry when Jesus was anointed with the Holy Ghost/Spirit and God made Him the Messiah/Christ, Acts 2:36.
Jesus was sent for the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 15:24, His role or ministry was to fulfill the law and the prophets in confirming the new covenant by His death and resurrection from the dead to pay the price for our sins. Daniel 9:27 is also about the 3.5 years of Jesus ministry but that is another topic. Jesus was the Messiah that was prophesied to come in Daniel. As I have discussed with Chris my understanding is Jesus was the beginning of the plan of God and like John 1:10 it is through Him not by Him.
Jesus, God' Son is first in God's plan of creation, and everything was created in and through Him and Jesus was begotten in the fullness of time. Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Colossians 1:20. I know you may also not agree with that but that is how I understand, it is God the Father who is the creator.
The light was the word of God that dwelt in Jesus, the glory of the Father that dwelt in Jesus, 2 Corinthians 4:6.
God bless,
RLW
The Word is a lamp unto my feet,and a light unto my path- Psalm 119:105 combined with 1Jo.1:5:This is the message which we have heard of Him,and declare unto you,that GOD is Light,and in Him is no darkness at all. And the Word made flesh said:I am come a Light into the world,that whosoever believes on me should not abide in darkness-Jo.12:46.JESUS also said to the Father in His prayer:Jo.17:7-8- ->7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou has given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gave me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee,and they have believed that thou did send me.
The testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy.By the way, Isaiah prophesied:For unto us a child is born,unto us a Son is given:and the government is upon His shoulder:His name shall be called Wonderful,Counsellor,The mighty God,The everlasting Father,The Prince of Peace.
JESUS said to the Father:All mine are thine,and thine are mine;and I am glorified in them.
And now come I to thee;and these things I speak in the world,that THEY(THE TRUE BELIEVERS) might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.Jo.17:10-13.
Jo.1:18-No man hath seen GOD at any time,the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father,He has declared Him.
Jo.14:8-9:-->8 Philip saith unto JESUS:Lord,show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.9 JESUS saith unto Philip:Have I been so long time with you, and yet has thou not known me,Philip?he that has seen me has seen the Father;and how say you then,Show us the Father?
I and my Father are one-Jo.10:30
Part 3
I hope even though you may not agree, you can make sense of my replies. I would like to tell you I do not Have anything in common with JW or their translation of the bible.
My understanding we are mortal beings and no part of us is immortal. I see the spirit as our breath/life that goes back to God when we die, Ecclesiastes 11:7 and Scripture tell us the soul can die, Ezekiel 18:4 Matthew 10:28 Hebrew 9:27. Like Paul said of David being dead in the tomb and has not ascended to heaven, Acts 2:34. We do not put on immortality until the resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:53-54.
Bear with me my Greek is kindergarten level, arche the beginning or origin I see it maybe a little differently I understand God the Father as the Creator as in Genesis 1:1 and Psalm 19:1. I believe in the plan of God Jesus was first and as in Romans 4:17 Jesus was in Gods eyes in the womb of Mary and then the angels and all the counsel of heaven then the earth and all that was to be.
In Genesis 17:5 when God renamed Abram to Abraham God said, "for the father of many nations I have made thee". It was not Abraham will become a father of many nations it was already done in the plan of God.
"Firstborn of every creature and the firstborn from the dead" Jesus was the firstborn, Jesus being the first in God's plan would make Him the firstborn, and Jesus is the firstborn of the dead. There were people brought back from the dead like in 2 Kings 13:21 the guy was thrown into Elisha's tomb and when his body touched Elisha's bone he came back to life and stood up, and we see the ones in the New Testament. No one who died before Jesus who came back to life died again Jesus was the first to overcome death.
Jesus is the firstborn of the dead because He had no sin and death could not hold Him and when Jesus rose He rose in a glorified body never to die again, Revelation 1:18. That is what we look forward to when we are resurrected.
See part 4 sorry I am slow.
God the Father granted Christ all authority on heaven and earth which sets forth the ultimate example of how God worked to reward the perfect obedience of Christ. It also goes against Satan's offer to worship him to have such authority. ( Matthew 28:18; Matthew 4:9).
One may question how Christ; who Himself brought all of creation into existence would have such a destiny. ( Colossians 1:16-20). In that situation; one may say that He was the Person to do the work that the Father had planned; and His agent as it were was the Spirit of God (hovering over the waters as it states in Genesis 1:2).
We realize in this that no servant is greater than his master. ( John 15:20). We all are nothing without Him; yet He will likewise exalt the humble with positions to rule and reign with Christ in the Millennium. In some sense we can say that Christ emptied Himself so that He could be our High Priest suffering in all ways but without sin. ( Heb. 4:15). As the second Adam He was able to keep from the temptations of the devil to fall unlike Adam; as well as fulfilling the law perfectly which no man could do. ( 1 Cor. 15:45-47).
It is hard to get our mind around these facts; that He who created all things would start from conception as a helpless babe and end as a sheep to the slaughter ( Isaiah 53:7); the Lamb of God which will forever be ascribed to His Name. Of course all of us who are saved are adopted sons; ( Ephesians 1:5) part of the eternal lineage of the rightous (as contrasted with the earth dwellers in Revelation 11:10).
Christ is returning as conquering king. He alone trods the winepress ( Isaiah 63:3). He alone brings forth the TRUE one world government of peace and rules in righteousness; impartially judging as many verses in Isaiah testify. Some verses can be taken symbolically but to not take Revelation 19 literally or somehow think Christ already returned in some mystical way is heretical thinking (see 2 Tim. 2:18)
Thank you, you are correct I believe in one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ as most of the greetings in the epistles Ephesians 6:23 1 Thessalonians 1:1 and more, and nowhere is this doctrine taught in the New Testament that we must believe for salvation.
It is like Matthew 28:19 the baptizing in the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit but nowhere do we see it in the New Testament all were baptized in the name of Jesus and only in the name of Jesus are we saved. My study of 1 John 5:7 is that it was added from the Latin Vulgate and was not in the original text, but that can be debated.
I understand I am in the minority and have discussed this before. We can find Scripture to fit a doctrine, but can we find Scripture where the doctrine was taught? I have not found where the Trinity doctrine is taught. Like Genesis 1:26 there are many beings in heaven and the word us does not say God was speaking to Jesus, that is an assumption.
Thank you again for discussing this in a loving and respectful manor, this subject is deep and as long as we have love for each other, and truth is what we are in search of.
God bless,
RLW
Evidence I see so far indicates that most references to God are triune. One, singular, but triune God. Not 3 Gods, one God. As hard as it is to comprehend the Bible gives a distinction within God between the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.