Discuss Galatians 4


Galatians 4 KJV Bible discussions
 
  • S Spencer - in Reply
    Hi Hans.

    You may want to go back over what you are disagreeing on.

    The Emphasis here is by faith Abraham was counted righteous APART from the deeds of the Law.

    Please see Galatians 4:21-28

    Here's the Context of my Original post

    Galatians 4:28

    Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

    Isaac is not a Child of the flesh

    " NOT OF ABRAHAM AND SARAH'S DOING THEY WERE BARREN."

    The Promise was given BEFORE Abraham believed.

    This promise was "INITIATED" and confirmed by a covenant back in

    Genesis 15:8-12. Not in Genesis 22.

    Abraham was put to sleep so God entered the covenant alone.

    Only he can break it!!

    It's not broken or held up by any condition of Abraham.

    "A conditional covenant needs both parties passing between the divided carcass."

    Now let's go over the steps in sequence.

    1 Abraham is given a Promise by God.

    Genesis 15:4-5.

    THEN.

    2 Abraham believed God. What did he believe in? God's PROMISE.

    Genesis 15:6.

    3rd God performs the covenant.

    Genesis 15:8-12.

    Note: The Land is tied to the promise, But that's for a different study.

    " Hebrews 11:8-10."

    THIS IS WHERE THE GOSPEL IS PREACHED TO ABRAHAM.

    " Galatians 3:5-10."

    1) We have God's PROMISE " His Word.

    2) We have Abraham believed the PROMISE "Faith "

    IMPORTANT TO NOTICE.

    ( Ephesians 2:8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:)

    3) In Genesis 22 We will see the Resurrection.

    GENESIS 22.16.

    Here in Genesis 22 what is it Abraham believed in? This is about 33 years after the "PROMISE OF ISAAC" in Genesis 15.

    Answer: Hebrews 11:17-19. By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

    Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

    ACCOUNTING THAT GOD WAS ABLE TO RAISE HIM UP, EVEN FROM THE DEAD; from whence also he received him in a figure.

    Abraham stumbled with these promises.

    Gen. 17:17-18.

    Thank God it's UNCONDITIONAL.

    GB
  • S Spencer
    UNCONDITIONAL COVENANT TO ABRAHAM.

    This is what is getting covered up by spritualizing certain text.

    And How it relates to us.

    Hebrews 6:13-19 (KJV) For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

    Saying, SURELY BLESSING I WILL BLESS THEE, and MULTIPLYING I WILL MULTIPLY THEE.

    And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

    For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

    Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the IMMUTABILITY of his counsel, CONFIRMED IT BY AN OATH:

    That by TWO IMMUTABLE THINGS, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

    Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, BOTH SURE AND STEADFAST, AND WHICH ENTERED INTO THAT "WITHIN THE VEIL;"

    Galatians 4:28. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

    Here's the covenant and Promise between God and Abraham.

    TAKE NOTICE OF WHO IS THE LONE PARTICIPANT IN PERFORMING THE COVENANT.

    Here's Isaac being Promised.

    Genesis 15:4-5.

    Abraham's participation.

    Genesis 15:6.

    Here's the covenant performed.

    Genesis 15:8-11.

    NOTICE WHAT GOD DOES TO ABRAHAM.

    Genesis 15:12.

    This covenant being instituted by God only suggests its faithfulness depended on Gods PROMISE NOT ABRAHAM'S FAITHFULNESS!!

    Abraham faith was in God's PROMISE!!

    That's Mercy, Grace, and Faith apart from works. And Eternal Security all in view here.

    Galatians 4:28. !!

    Galatians 3:8-9.

    Galatians 3:13-15.

    THE PROMISE OF A SAVIOR GIVEN BEFORE THE INSTITUTION OF THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH!!

    Galatians 3:16-17.

    2 Corinthians 3.

    Galatians 3:18.

    THE TRUE VINE!

    AND OPERATION OF THE HOLYSPIRIT IN THE NEW COVENANT.

    Hebrews 10:16.

    Romans 6:6.

    Romans 8:10-11.

    ( 2 Corinthians 3:5. )

    This is what's being attacked by those crept in from unawares.

    God bless.
  • T. Levis - in Reply on Genesis 8
    I've had it explained to me that it was finished when Noah finished it, "that GOD couldn't move until Noah finished it" that "GOD's timing isn't man's timing. He waits sometimes for completion of events not like world thinks". That significance is amazing to consider. Genesis 6:22,

    Daniel 7:22, Galatians 4:22, Ecclesiastes 3:1-17, Daniel 7:25, Exodus 9:16-19, Hebrews 9:8-10, Psalms 105:17-19, Micah 5:2-4, seems to be significant even in future Luke 16:16,

    Hope that's helpful
  • S Spencer - in Reply
    Amen Brother Carleton!!

    Galatians 3:17. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. There's a lot tied to that promise. The birth of Isaac was a product of that promise, So are we.

    Galatians 4:28. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

    Abrahams offering up of Issac demonstrates the prophetic Ties the promise has with the Resurrection and new life by the Spirit.

    Hebrews 11:18-19. Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

    Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

    Genesis 15:1-18.

    God bless you brother.
  • Kevin - in Reply
    Nor is the word Trinity, but we assume this that it is speaking of God the Father, God the Son, & God the Holy Spirit as referring to the Godhead. What brother in Christ Alex is speaking about is new birth inside of us. Galatians 4:19, Paul is speaking of another labor in which the Spirit of Christ is formed in us. This is why Paul is speaking that it is no longer I speaking, but Christ in me. John 17, Jesus is praying that they would be one as He is one with the Father.

    Mary gave birth to the Christ in the flesh - which we profess that He Jesus the One and only One begotten of the Father the True Messiah has come in the flesh. According to Galatians 4:19 we are to give birth to the Christ formed inside of us. As John the Baptist prepared the way of the Lord, the Holy Spirit helps us birth the Christ in us - basically He Christ must increase and we must decrease.

    Brother Alex was just using an analogy to describe this process of new birth as relating to Grandson. Let us proceed in brotherly love and do our best to keep unity in His peace. We are all uniquely created and beautifully made by His hands.

    Let us proceed we with Love that edifies for it is truly Christ that has justified us and called us into this Great hope.

    Let are minds and eyes be opened to this Love.

    May God bless us all and our families richly and increase going forward!
  • Jesse - in Reply on Genesis 48
    Nanette,

    It is true that God knows His sheep. A person who has experienced a spiritual re-birth (Born again) is a person who God knows. All others are impostors. There will come a day that many will profess that during their lifetime, they did many wonderful things "in His name," and the Lord will say to them "Depart from me, I never knew you." This would be all those who died without receiving Christ. You are correct in that there are two future resurrections. There will be a resurrection for those who have died "In Christ," and then there will be another resurrection after the thousand-year reign of Christ for those who died without Christ, those who rejected Him in their lifetime. The first resurrection is the one you want to be a part of because those in the second one will be cast into the lake of fire.

    I don't think the bible teaches that a person who dies without Christ in their life will be given a second chance after death, if that's what you are saying. Again, God knows all His sheep, those who have received Christ while still alive on this earth. In Galatians 4:9 Paul says, But now, and if I may point this out to you because it is very subtle, and he said it in Colossians also.

    He says but after you have known God, or (rather) are known of God. You see, Paul corrected himself. He corrected himself in Colossians as well. And we do it all the time. We ask people "Do you know the Lord?" But the scripture says does the Lord know you? That's what's important. It's not that I know Christ, but He knows me.

    Nanette, does the Lord know you? Have you received Him? Have you surrendered your life to Him? It is my hope that you have already done so and that you belong to Him. If you have not yet surrendered your life to Jesus Christ, please do not hesitate to do so. There is no guarantee of tomorrow. Believing that we get a second chance at salvation after death is not a risk anyone should take!
  • S Spencer - in Reply
    Ted.

    Satan is the prince of this world and The world also hate Jesus.

    Here's why the world hated Jesus.

    This persecution Started in Genesis and on through us today. Genesis 3:15.

    John 7:7. The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, BECAUSE I TESTIFY OF IT, THAT THE WORKS THEREOF ARE EVIL

    And the world presently hates Jesus disciples as well as any people who has a role in God's redemption program.

    The Lord called out Abraham and blessed him and Made an unconditional covenant with him. And he would be the Father of many nations Genesis 17:4-13.

    Galatians 4:28. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

    Galatians 3:28-29. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    God is not done with Israel as some think,

    And the Church did not replace Israel.

    They play a role in the future.

    Acts 15:14-16. Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

    And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

    ( AFTER THIS I WILL RETURN, AND WILL BUILD AGAIN THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID, )

    which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

    This is a spiritual warfare!!

    That's the short of it. Perhaps someone can go into more detail.

    God bless.

    .
  • S Spencer - in Reply
    Amen Brother Jess!!

    Our Justification happened at the Cross and We are being Sanctified by his Word and we will be Glorified in Heaven.

    Galatians 4:28. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

    There's a verse that wraps up the works and grace confusion when applied.

    There's a lot to unlock in Torah before we even get into the study of Salvation in the New Testament!!

    God bless.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 1
    Brother Leon. Concerning Scripture, I believe it is to be read normally & naturally (or else there would be no reason to read it at all), & where amplification is given or a deeper special meaning intended, the Word will show it for our benefit. For example, in Galatians 4:22-26, Paul speaks of Sarah & Hagar (Genesis chap 16 onwards). If we didn't have Paul's allegorical connection of Sarah & Hagar to the covenants, one of 'Freedom & Promise' in Christ & the Gospel, & the other of 'Bondage' to the Law, I wonder whether we would have missed it altogether?

    Even in the Book of the Revelation, some things are clearly metaphorical & left unexplained, while others are explained: e.g. Revelation 9:3ff on locusts as opposed to Revelation 1:20, the stars & candlesticks. With the latter, the meaning is given, but with the former, we can get several theories on who or what the locusts are. If one proclaims that he has the meaning, how are we to accept that without any Scriptural backing? If a mystery is unlocked & faith & joy have increased exponentially as a result, can it be expected that another person can share that same exuberance without confirmation from other Scriptures? Likewise, the two states of the Earth (once without form & void because of satanic interference & then re-created in perfection a second time with beaming light), becomes difficult to comprehend.

    You said, "The reconstituted creation did not contain the same evil which previously existed." I thought that this 'reconstituted creation' already had the same evil present - in Satan, who was there ready to pounce on the new humans to make them like himself. Adam & Eve's disobedience manifested into evil only because of the evil already present. And as a result, the whole creation groaneth & travaileth in pain till the present. But "the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God" in that coming day. Blessings to you brother.
  • Chris - in Reply
    Hi brother Norman. God has never stopped revealing Himself to mankind - it's just the manner of His revelations.

    In the Old Testament days, God spoke & showed Himself in more visible ways: in choosing certain people to fulfil His Will & Program, in choosing a people (Israel) to be called His very Own, & to declare His Word to His people through the prophets He sent.

    And then in these "last days" (when God's Promises to His people (under the Old Covenant) would end (= fulfilled) by the introduction of the New Covenant, through His Son: Hebrews 11:1,2), God has chosen to reveal Himself & of Kingdom living in new way. No longer is the requirement of the physical Mercy Seat in the Tabernacle or the Altar for burnt sacrifices. No longer is the need for God's audible Voice to His prophets. All this has been fully met in the Person of His Son: He is the reason for God's continuing Mercy on us, a miserable, unregenerate, sinful people. Jesus is the Living Word to bring God's final Word of warning to us, indeed, to ultimately lay down His Life so that we might still have this Age of Grace to live in & live for Him.

    So, to all who would believe on Jesus for their salvation, repenting of their sins & confessing His Name, God's Testimony & Word has not diminished. He sent forth His Spirit into our hearts, crying "Abba, Father" ( Galatians 4:6). The same God Who hid His Face from His Son in the agony of the crucifixion, did so, so that His Face might now be fully revealed to us His sons & daughters by His Spirit. The Word that the prophets & saints of old heard audibly, we do also now by His Spirit. His manifestations seen in the powers of Heaven & on Earth in those days, are now seen in His Power in us & in the miracles He does for each of us, some seen, some unseen. Nothing has changed - God's revelation to His people (both to the saved Jew & Gentile) are still the same, & I would say, even of greater magnitude as His Spirit reveals more, does more, says more, to us now.
  • Chris - in Reply on Matthew 24
    Page 1.

    Hi Adam. I agree with you in your definition of a Christian, & more: conviction of sin, repentance, re-birth, Spirit baptism & indwelling, fruit/gifts of the Spirit received, earnest desire to live for God & not for oneself & the World, hates sin & struggles against temptation & sin, has his citizenship in Heaven, longs to talk to his Heavenly Father & also to hear from Him, & ultimately will persevere in this life of burden, cares & suffering, being triumphant in the battle against Satan.

    One might say that I've added more to its meaning, as shown in Romans 10:9, making the definition too restrictive. But the Roman's formula (confess + believe = salvation) is the essence, but the Christians' desire to hate sin, to live for God, to worship this Saviour God, to persevere, etc., are responses of the Holy Spirit indwelling. This must be the case, for that is the very Work of the Spirit, to form Christ in us ( Galatians 4:19) which is not always an immediate but an ongoing work in a believers' life. That's why I like Jesus' simple parable of the Sower ( Matthew 13:3-23); even though it speaks of the reception of God's Word to the hearer, Jesus is questioning how people would respond when the Living Word of God standing before them would receive & respond to Him. A proper response to that Word, its planting, germination, growth, fruitfulness & abiding until the time of physical deterioration & death, is the definition of one in whom God's Word & Seed of Salvation has truly done its blessed work.
  • Michael - in Reply on Romans 5
    Hello Dan,

    Thank you for taking the time to answer my 2 questions.

    1) You mention that the commandment at Leviticus 12:3 was a "suggestion". When the Law was give to Israel, they made a covenant between themselves and God. Please read Exodus 34:3-8. Notice specifically

    Exodus 24:3 "And Moses came and told the people ALL THE WORDS of the LORD, and ALL THE JUDGMENTS: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, ALL THE WORDS which the LORD hath said will we do."

    That does not sound like a "suggestion" but a command - an order. Jewish people have thus very meticulously made certain to circumcise their children. Moses was almost killed by the LORD because he had not circumcised his son. Please read Exodus 4:24-26. That seems to me that the LORD takes circumcision very, very seriously. In fact, in the first century, even believing Jews believed that a believer in the Messiah must be circumcised to be saved.

    Acts 15:1 "And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, EXCEPT YE BE CIRCUMCISED after the manner of Moses, YE CANNOT BE SAVED."

    2) You mention that the first century Church followed the 10 commandments.

    I do agree that they did follow 9 of those commandments. They are re-iterated in the New Testament or Covenant set up by Jesus through his blood mentioned at Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Luke 22:20. However, nowhere do the Apostles every tell the Church, in clear words, "remember to keep the sabbath". Could you provide me 1 verse where an apostle clearly says to keep the sabbath - that actual word "sabbath" being used? In fact, Paul says the opposite at Colossians 2:16 and Galatians 4:10.

    3) Now to answer your question. The apostles did not ever say that they obeyed the "10" commandments. They said that they obeyed the commandments. Those would be the commandments of the New Testament given by Jesus Christ through his Apostles via the letters of Romans to Revelation.

    I welcome your thoughts again.

    Good day to you, Dan.
  • Jesse - in Reply on Psalms 70
    Thanks, Chris,

    That means a lot to me. I never considered Galatians 4:6-9, but it makes perfect sense. And yes, I do notice the transition in verse 9, where the writer says "I am persuaded better things of you." He is now speaking to those who were probably genuine believers and continued on until the end. We don't see that in verses 4-6. There were many people following along, some continuing on, and some leaving. Those who left never surrendered their life to Christ. But then there were those who did surrender.
  • Chris - in Reply on Psalms 70
    Hello Jesse. Thank you for taking the time to share more explicitly about that great Truth - I fully agree with what you wrote: the impossibility of a truly born again person, baptized in & filled with God's Holy Spirit, to ever find in his heart to want to leave the wonder & experience of a divine change of heart & mind, and want to turn back to the weak & beggarly things of the past life ( Galatians 4:6-9).

    But for any here who will continue to maintain that our understanding is incorrect, I would then explain vv 4-6 in this way: the Hebrews writer is sharing an 'impossible' scenario. "It is impossible" because of the 'impossibility' to re-crucify Jesus again (& maybe, again & again), putting the whole blessed, final work of God for our salvation into a disgraceful mess & shame. And since that is an impossibility (that a true believer who has received the goodness of Heaven) to again shame the Lord, the Hebrews writer quickly expresses, "But (I) am "persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation" (verse 9).

    So why should he write this in the first place? For the very purpose of this letter: to show to these believers who were largely saved from judaistic legalism & error, that Jesus Christ & the merits of His Cross cannot be lightly regarded, even as seen by His exemplary Character (as written right throughout Hebrews): Him being far superior to any prophet, the angels, even Moses, by His Priesthood & by the Power of Faith, Hope & Love He gave to us. So, if some say that these are saved people in vv 4-6, then the writer is saying that such a situation cannot arise, since an apostate would have to re-crucify Christ to be saved again - which thing IS an impossibility ( Romans 6:10). And the RC belief in the Eucharist & Transubstantiation are related here.

    So your word is correct Jesse: these were not believers spoken about because such a scenario cannot happen, rather the writer was persuaded that the believers' faith was genuine & strong.
  • Michael - in Reply on Luke 9
    Hi Phil,

    Jesus is called "the son of man" to emphasize the fact that he was truly human. There were some in the first century who did not teach this truth.

    1 John 4:2-3 "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come IN THE FLESH is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come IN THE FLESH is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

    Jesus is "the son of man". The Hebrew word "Adam" means, in fact, "man". Thus, Jesus is "the son of man (Adam). He is a descendant of Adam. He had a human mother, Mary, that made that possible.

    Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, MADE (BORN) OF A WOMAN, made under the law,"

    Romans 1:3-4 "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh (THE SON OF MAN); And declared to be THE SON OF GOD with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

    Matthew 16:13 "When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I THE SON OF MAN am?"

    Matthew 16:16 "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD."

    John 10:36 "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am THE SON OF GOD?"

    So, Jesus Christ is thus referred to as both "the son of man" and "the son of God".

    With kind regards.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Romans 5
    Michael.

    PG 2.

    Hebrews 6:12-19. I Erred on page 2, "I meant unconditional covenant, not oath.' Here goes-

    Gen.15;1-12.

    Vs 6: And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

    Vs 8:And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?

    VSES. 9-12. And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.

    And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.

    And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.

    And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.

    God put Abraham to sleep and entered the covenant alone. only God can break it. ISSAC WAS PROMISED!! AS WELL AS WE!

    Galatians 4:28. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 'Unconditional!

    Vs 26-27:But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

    LOOK AT THOSE UNDER THE LAW IN-

    VS 25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. MT SINAI IS A MT YOU COULD NOT TOUCH! ( COULD'NT KEEP ) THE LAW WAS GIVEN THERE.

    GEN. 22 Abraham offered up his only begotten promised son, because he believed in the previous promise/covenant. AND KNEW GOD WOULD HAVE TO RAISE HIM FROM THE DEAD.

    Hebrews 11:17-19 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

    Of whom it was said, "That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

    Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

    The crucifixion of Christ played out.

    GB
  • Michael - in Reply on Romans 5
    Hello Vince,

    Thank you for your comments. I was wanting to respond specifically to your comment, "I guess they think Christ died on the cross so we can be Lawless."

    No, I do not believe that Jesus died for me so that I could be lawless. I do want to obey God's Laws. However, what has God commanded me to do? Would you suggest that I be circumcised so as to keep God's Law recorded at Leviticus 12:3? Why would I do that when the Apostles decided in Acts 15 that I need not be circumcised in order to serve God.

    So, what do I obey. As a Christian, I obey the instructions that the Apostles gave to the first-century Church in the epistles from Romans to Revelation. They never tell me to keep the Sabbath or be circumcised or keep the festivals of Israel. In fact, they tell me the opposite:

    Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

    Galatians 4:10 "Ye observe days (sabbaths), and months (lunar month), and times (festivals), and years (sabbatical). I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."

    I obey the New Testament made between God and the Church of God via the mediator Jesus Christ since I am a Christian. I do not obey the Old Testament made between God and ancient Israel via the mediator Moses. I am not an Israelite.

    Please see Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:7-13.

    Notice that the Bible is separated into 2 portions - the Old Testament and the New Testament. Jesus inaugurated the New Testament with his shed blood. See Luke 22:20. These are the laws that I obey - God's laws for Christians in the New Testament.

    I kindly invite your comments.

    Good day.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Romans 5
    Amen Jesse.

    Great declaration of clear truth.

    To go along with the truth you presented brings us back to Genesis to the "UNCONDITIONAL" promise God performed "ALONE" to Abraham 430 years before the law given.

    Hebrews 6:13-19. For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

    Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.

    And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

    For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.

    Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

    That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

    Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil.

    Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of PROMISE. Galatians 4:28.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    I also enjoy reading your full replies brother Michael,

    It seems we see eye to eye. Like you stated that we are not commanded to keep a "Saturday", or certain day, Sabbath in the New Testament. As I stated Galatians 4:9-11 in my first reply to you in this thread. Which you just broke down with details to make it more understandable for those who may have not understood that verse.

    Thank you very much for your time and posts as I very much enjoy conversing with other brothers & sisters in Christ. I look forward to seeing your posts here to help others in their walk with Christ.

    God Bless and peace be with you brother.
  • Michael - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Hello Richard,

    Thank you for your comments. I enjoyed reading your thoughts.

    Indeed, I certainly agree with you that the Old Testament books are still important for Christians. Indeed, the Apostle Paul said that all scripture is beneficial. ( 2 Timothy 3:16) He also stated at Romans 15:4 that those things were written to teach us. Also, at 1 Corinthians 10:6 and 1 Corinthians 10:11, he says that those things were examples to us to teach us and warn us.

    However, as far as the terms of a Testament or Covenant concerning the laws that we must obey, Christians should obey only the New Testament laws which are binding on a Christian. You cannot have 2 rental leases in force at the same time. The new rental lease makes the old one obsolete. The New Testament makes the Old Testament obsolete.

    Hebrews 8:13 "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

    Hebrews 7:12 "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the (Mosaic) law."

    Luke 16:16 "The (Mosaic) law and the prophets were until John..."

    Christians are not commanded in the New Testament to keep the Saturday sabbath and neither to keep a dominical sabbath (Sunday). There is no set day to keep. The only thing that is commanded to be kept is meeting together - that can be anytime during the week.

    Hebrews 10:24, 25 "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

    The Apostle Paul counsels against keeping any "day":

    Galatians 4:10 "Ye observe (sabbath) days, and (lunar) months, and (festivals) times, and (sabbatical) years."

    Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

    I welcome your further comments.

    Good day, Richard.
  • Michael - in Reply on Exodus 15
    Hello Bridget,

    Thank you for your comments.

    You quoted Exodus 20:10 to say that we must observe the sabbath. However, you quoted from the Old Testament given to the ancient nation of Israel. Could you provide me a verse from the New Testament which commands the Church to keep the Sabbath? If not, why not? Why would the Apostles never instruct or remind the Christian Church to keep the sabbath if it was that important?

    You also quoted Malachi 2:6 that God never changes. But, then why did God change the law of circumcision? The Old Testament said you must be circumcised - a commandment of God at Leviticus 12:3. But, in the New Testament, we are told that circumcision is not necessary. See Galatians 5:2. Also, why does Hebrews 7:12 say the the priesthood was changed? I thought you said that God never changes. In the Old Testament, the priesthood was Levitical but in the New Testament, the priesthood is according to the order of Mechizedek - another change of God. See Hebrews 7:11.

    The Apostle Paul, at Galatians 4:10, scolds the Galatians for keeping the Old Testament rituals. The brackets are mine.

    Galatians 4:10

    "Ye observe (sabbath) days, and (lunar) months, and (festivals) times, and (sabbatical) years."

    No wonder the Apostle Paul asks the question at:

    Galatians 4:21 "Tell me, ye that desire to be under the (Mosaic Old Testament) law, do ye not hear the law?"

    Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

    I welcome your comments, Bridget.

    Good day.
  • Richard in Christ - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Hi Michael,

    I agree with you on not having to keep the "7th day Sabbath". Another verse I came across tonight to back that is Galatians 4:9-11. I don't know if I understand correctly your statement of "we are commanded the opposite". As I stated, my feeling, that to follow Christ is to be Holy as He is Holy as in 1 Peter 1:14-17, Hebrews 12:14. To strive to keep every day Holy retaining the Lord in us. That following love from a pure heart is what makes God our Father and Christ happy 1 Peter 1:22-23.

    To the Ten Commandments. Like I stated I believe they are good and are throughout the NT, as to follow them, though all spread out. Here is one actually discerning it as a commandment of the OT Ephesians 6:1-2. Here are the rest in different places. Romans 1:28-32, Galatians 5:19-21, 2 Timothy 3:1-5, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Colossians 3:1-10. As you are able to go through all those epistles of the NT and see it notes the same things the Ten Commandments tells to us to stay away from. Even more as some are in the Mitzvot laws. As stated there are a lot that are void though just letting the Spirit guide you, you can see the ones that are moral and righteous.

    Love from a pure heart is above all and shall never fail Colossians 3:12-17. Walking in the Spirit producing good fruit for the Lord. To keep us from the temptations and lusts of the flesh which leads to sin. Which no one is perfect and may slip and fall. To be vigilant and confess our sins in prayer they shall be forgiven. Though we are to strive to stay away(repent) from sin in our walk with the Lord to be Holy in this temple He has Blessed us with.

    Just to make clear if anyone may perceive I'm stating that "good works" is what saves us. That is not true and not what I'm stating. Though we are called by God through Christ to good works Ephesians 2:10. Showing our faith and newness of life in the Lord. All glory to our Father and Jesus Christ. Amen.

    God Bless you Michael.
  • S Spencer - in Reply on Genesis 1
    Hi Johnny How about I paste a reply from Michael on a similar topic. I think you will find your answer here.

    Jesus himself was born under the Mosaic Law and, therefore, was required to keep the Mosaic Law. That is why he was circumcised on the eight day as per the Mosaic Law. Notice that in the following verse. Jesus was made (or born) under the law - the Mosaic Law.

    Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"

    As long as that Mosaic Law was in force, the Mosaic Law (the so-called Old Testament) was in force. Jesus therefore kept his Father's commandments of that Mosaic Law. But, the Holy Scriptures has said that God would set up a New Covenant that would not be like the Old Covenant. Notice...

    Jeremiah 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:" "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:"

    It was not the Apostle Paul who changed God's Law to his people - it was God himself as per Jeremiah 31:31. However, the Apostle Paul, writing under inspiration of God, gave the first-century Church the new directives or laws governing that New Covenant. He never instructed the Christian Churches of the first-century to keep the Mosaic Law such as circumcision or the sabbaths. In fact, he instructed them the complete opposite. Notice again...

    Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

    You cannot judge a Christian for not keeping the sabbath days - as per the New Covenant that has been set up between God and his present-day people - the Church of God.

    I welcome your further thoughts, Dan. Good day.
  • Michael - in Reply on Nehemiah 8
    Hello Dan. Thank you for your response.

    Jesus himself was born under the Mosaic Law and, therefore, was required to keep the Mosaic Law. That is why he was circumcised on the eight day as per the Mosaic Law. Notice that in the following verse. Jesus was made (or born) under the law - the Mosaic Law.

    Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"

    As long as that Mosaic Law was in force, the Mosaic Law (the so-called Old Testament) was in force. Jesus therefore kept his Father's commandments of that Mosaic Law. But, the Holy Scriptures has said that God would set up a New Covenant that would not be like the Old Covenant. Notice...

    Jeremiah 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:" "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:"

    It was not the Apostle Paul who changed God's Law to his people - it was God himself as per Jeremiah 31:31. However, the Apostle Paul, writing under inspiration of God, gave the first-century Church the new directives or laws governing that New Covenant. He never instructed the Christian Churches of the first-century to keep the Mosaic Law such as circumcision or the sabbaths. In fact, he instructed them the complete opposite. Notice again...

    Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

    You cannot judge a Christian for not keeping the sabbath days - as per the New Covenant that has been set up between God and his present-day people - the Church of God.

    I welcome your further thoughts, Dan. Good day.
  • Chris - in Reply on Luke 24
    Hi Nehemiah, the Bible as we have it, doesn't speak of those silent years between the Testaments. We would have to look at history to see what took place at that time, & specifically about the Medo-Persian & Roman Empires and their influence in the world, especially in Palestine. It would be best, if you're interested in that history, to read about it rather than my sharing it here in precis form. You can check it out at this very good Site, which gives a full, informative & easy to read account: templemount dot org. Go to the Reference Links at the bottom of the page & click on 'The 400 Years between the Hebrew & Christian Scriptures by Ray Stedman'.

    However, during those silent years, from between 200 BC & 400 AD, several writings appeared what we now refer to as the Apocryphal Books. They received a mixed reception, some believing that they were vital information to be included with the rest of Scripture, to others believing that under various tests, those writings proved to be uninspired & contained inaccuracies. So they were not included in the Canon of Scripture we have now in the KJV.

    When you read of the plight of the Jews during those silent years & what they suffered under the hands of those Empires, they too must have wondered, 'why was God keeping quiet & not dealing with the enemy, to bring His promised Saviour to us to defeat them'. But God's Word says, "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons." Galatians 4:4,5. At the appointed time, God did move - not for a physical salvation from the human enemy, but a spiritual salvation from the unseen wicked enemy of our souls. God was no more silent. But now after 2000 years, the same question is asked by some, "where is God in our sufferings?" "When will He come to remove us?" When the fulness of (God's) time is come, Jesus WILL come again.
  • S Spencer on Jesus our kinsman redeemer page 1 - in Reply on Psalms 91
    HI Sacha,

    Page 1

    That is a great question and important topic that you are inquiring about, "He chose to have His Son born of a human woman who by her fleshly nature is sinfull ,do you think there might have been a reason for this choice ?" And you also mentioned the seed of the woman which ties to this,

    If I'm understanding the question as presented I think the study we are looking for is a study in

    ( KINSMAN REDEEMER).

    Jesus was born of a woman to become our kinsman redeemer.

    Galatians 4:4-5. But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

    Hebrews 2:9-11.

    But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

    For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

    For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

    Roman 8:3.

    For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son " IN THE ''''LIKENESS"'' of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    Revelation 5:2-5.

    And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

    And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

    And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

    And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
  • Carleton Part 1 God the Son scriptures on Genesis 14
    "His name shall be called...The mighty God" Isaiah 9:6

    "My Lord and my God" John 20:2

    "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest" Luke 1:32

    "that Holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" Luke 1:35

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son" John 3:16

    "And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God" John 1:34

    "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" Matthew 3:17

    "God sent his only begotten Son into the world" 1 John 4:9

    "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" Matthew 16:16

    "The Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world" 1 John 4:14

    "And thou shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins" Matthew 1:21

    "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world" 1 Peter 1:20

    "But when the fulness of the time was to come, God sent his Son" Galatians 4:4

    "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel" Isaiah 7:14

    "Behold, thou shall conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name JESUS" Luke 1:31

    "Then said Mary to the Angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" Luke 1:34

    "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" Luke 1:35

    " Thou son of David, fear not to take Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost" Matthew 1:20

    "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" John 1:14

    "I am the bread of life....This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from Heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world" John 6:48-51
  • Charles R Peek on Romans 8:9
    Spiritual Adult

    98% of born again Christians never become spiritual adults

    Growing up Spiritually does not happen automatically. Spiritual growth only comes from studying the Scriptures until Christ be formed in you. Galatians 4:19 "My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,"

    2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

    Lets take a look at second timothy chapter three, verses sixteen and seventeen. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." "THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT" ANOTHER WORD FOR "PERFECT" IS "MATURE" As you study, you grow in to an Adult Christian, Peter said "As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:" A new born Christian baby can do just about anything that an unsaved person can do; so we all need to grow up.
  • Chris - in Reply on Genesis 4
    This would be an extremely difficult case to build as Paul is simply not specific to what was given him to keep him from becoming conceited after those mighty revelations.

    I have always tended to believe that his eyes caused him a lot of bother. Whether he had first acquired some disease that eventually affected other parts of his body in the long term & especially his eyes, one can't be certain. Anyway, I'll give you some other Scriptures for you to consider (not in any order):

    a. Romans 16:22 (Paul was the author, but Tertius his scribe possibly because of Paul's vision).

    b. 1 Corinthians 16:21 & 2 Thessalonians 3:17 (Paul managed to sign off with his name while others helped with the writing of the epistle).

    c. Galatians 6:11 (Paul wrote in large letters, rather than writing a 'long letter', as he didn't have a scribe to help him).

    d. Galatians 4:13 (Paul preached to the Galatians first, possibly because of the region's higher altitude may have helped with a disease, e.g. malaria which left untreated, might have caused eye problems) & then in Galatians 4:15 (that the Galatians would have given him "their eyes" for his need).

    e. Acts 23:3-5 (Paul insulted the High Priest not recognizing him, or as some suppose, that Paul was saying "I didn't expect a High Priest (of his calibre) to order me beaten").

    Sorry, I'm directing this response towards Paul's eyes, as I feel that this was where his infirmity was. But of course, no one can say with full certainty.
  • Chris - in Reply on Galatians 4:10
    I think you may be seeking clarification of Romans 14:5,6 to a similar passage in Galatians 4:9,10.

    As both of Paul's letters are to believers, I read the Galatians portion as applying to some who wanted to observe those aspects of the Jewish religious requirements as necessary, as opposed to the freedom believers now have in Christ, in Romans 14.

    In Galatians, Paul speaks of the Jewish customs & observances (of special days & times) that were required for the performance of their religion. This went part & parcel with a strict & correct observance, & any departure from it, brought displeasure & punishment.

    But when one is "in Christ", we have no such constraints placed upon us, as we look into the "perfect law of liberty" because Christ, in His Sacrifice, not only brought us a glorious salvation from sin's penalty, but also released us from the bondage to anything else (whether a Law, custom, or tradition), so that we may enjoy the liberty that comes with faith in Christ & being led of His Spirit in our lives. So in Romans 4:5,6, Paul is reminding the believers there that they are free to observe any day they wished or eat anything they desired, for they were no longer under legal constraint, but under the dictates of the conscience, as those now belonging to Jesus. And of course, the reason for Paul bringing up this matter, was the concern about a judgemental attitude, which would be prevalent especially by those coming out of Judaism & who believed that the 'old' observances were still necessary to live as a Christian. And we know that the Apostle Peter too failed momentarily in this matter of behaviour in front of Jews ( Galatians 2:11-16).

    We are never to judge another, except to proclaim the Word accurately to one who is failing or departing from the teachings from the Word. Therefore, whether in our mind or action against them, we are to desist, but by loving instruction guide or warn them, leaving the matter of the soul's condition only to the Lord.


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